Article

2003-03-31 Iraq

HORRIFIC HUMAN SUFFERING IN THIS INSANE WAR

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Posted by Murat 2003-03-31 01:34 am|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Al Mirror, the paper that gets everything backwards, the drinking man's Guardian.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2003-03-31 01:49:18|| [www.nuclearspace.com] 2003-03-31 01:49:18|| Front Page Top

#2 Why do people pretend as if there was zero suffering in Iraq before the attack. All of Iraq's children lived in peaceful, happy bliss until the Mean 'Mericans came along.

This "Politics of Dead Babies" thing is getting outta hand. I love how they use sentences like "happy that her Baghdad home was ringing to the sound of children's laughter...." and "blood splattered walls" as if we wouldn't be sufficiently horrified by the unintended death of children unless we know the awful details.

Posted by Tokyo Taro 2003-03-31 02:35:25|| 2003-03-31 02:35:25|| Front Page Top

#3 Targeting civilians? Yeah right! Zogby is pointing to increasing opposition in the Arab sandbox, to America. Yet Zog refuses to condemn the deceitful atrocity propaganda that incites that contempt. And he expects American opinion to shift, respecting Arab sensibilities. They can go to hell. In fact, I think that anybody who believes that American forces are going to capture Baghdad by poking through its 1,000,000 plus booby-trapped/Fedayen polluted residences, is brain dead. Bye bye Bush Doctrine.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020601-3.html

Posted by Anonon 2003-03-31 03:23:56|| 2003-03-31 03:23:56|| Front Page Top

#4 Saddam is directly and morally responsible for each innocent death in Iraq. Just as Hitler was directly and morally responsible for each death of innocent people in Germany. How difficult is that to grasp?

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2003-03-31 03:27:24|| [radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentevents/] 2003-03-31 03:27:24|| Front Page Top

#5 Murat, why was the woman hanged in the middle of Basra after waving to UK troops?

Why was a public official's toungue cut off while he was tied to a pole in a public square?

Why are many male Kurds "disappearing" after being taken by Iraqi government officials in Mosul and Kirkuk?

Why are we supposed to blink an eye at your selective outrage?

Posted by PJ 2003-03-31 03:36:46|| 2003-03-31 03:36:46|| Front Page Top

#6 HOw happy are all the Kurds living in Turkey, Murat?

Do they live in houses ringing with children's laughter?

Posted by anon1 2003-03-31 03:58:10|| 2003-03-31 03:58:10|| Front Page Top

#7 HOw happy were the Cypriots after Turkey illegally, unilaterally invaded, Murat?

Were those Cypriot children living in laughter filled homes until the evil Turks splattered their blood on the walls?

Posted by anon1 2003-03-31 03:59:32|| 2003-03-31 03:59:32|| Front Page Top

#8 How happy were the Armenian children massacred by Turkish forces, Murat? can you hear the laughter of the dead children murdered by evil Turks?

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2003-03-31 04:35:17|| [radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentevents/] 2003-03-31 04:35:17|| Front Page Top

#9 Cyprus and Iraq are a way different buddy, first of all the Cyprus war was not about oil as is the Iraq war, secondly Turkey had a legal status as one of the 3 guarantor states (England, Turkey and Greece) to protect the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and third there is no occupation since Northern Cyprus has its own elected government, state body and legislative body. And 4 Turkey interfered 7 years after a UN peacekeeping force was stationed on Cyprus and after it became clear that the UN was unable to protect the Turkish population against the Greek atrocities.

Posted by Murat 2003-03-31 04:57:06|| 2003-03-31 04:57:06|| Front Page Top

#10 Can't we just have a rule that any article titled in all caps is automatically deleted?

Posted by anon 2003-03-31 05:46:24|| 2003-03-31 05:46:24|| Front Page Top

#11 This is cheap, real cheap, and I'm disusted with myself for posting this, but here's how Turkish kids in Germany get their kicks... Hell, I'm only visiting Murat's level of discourse for a few minutes.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-03-31 06:44:57|| 2003-03-31 06:44:57|| Front Page Top

#12 Murat: Oh it's different because it was us....

you sound so lame sometimes

Posted by anon1 2003-03-31 06:49:40|| 2003-03-31 06:49:40|| Front Page Top

#13 Hey Murat, what about the evil Turks who murdered Armenian and Kurdish children -- any comments about their laughter? and the German kids tormented by Turkish gangs, do you think they're laughing? what about the countless children tortured and murdered by Saddam's thugs? how many more shall there be?

Also, can you tell us why the Turkish part of Cyprus is such a hellhole and stricken with poverty, compared to the Greek side? Between 1960 (independence) and 1974 (Turkish invasion) the Republic of Cyprus, operating a free-market economy based on agriculture and trade, achieved a standard of living higher than most of its neighbours, with the exception of Israel. Today, the free Greek Cypriot economy is prosperous -- but the Turkish occupied Cypriot economy has about one-third the per capita GDP of the free south.

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2003-03-31 07:12:45|| [radio.weblogs.com/0103811/categories/currentevents/] 2003-03-31 07:12:45|| Front Page Top

#14 The article actually doesn't report anything. It is a compilation of the writer's opionions, and is clearly Iraqi propaganda.

If true it is unfortunate about the civilian's deaths, but clearly, if this woman's children were in harms way, how can this be the fault of the pilot?

Posted by badanov 2003-03-31 07:13:29|| [www.rkka.org] 2003-03-31 07:13:29|| Front Page Top

#15 This is supposed to be a conservative weblog, not a release point for Iraqi propaganda. I hope allowing this marat character to post Iraqi propaganda does not continue, or I will be forced to go elsewhere.

Posted by badanov 2003-03-31 07:18:11|| [www.rkka.org] 2003-03-31 07:18:11|| Front Page Top

#16 OK Folks,

Up until now, I have regarded Murat as a fair-minded debator of differing opinion. It has become very apparent, though, that he is just here to sow dissension on this terrific board. I propose from now on, we confer official "Troll" status on Murat.

The main rule of engagement for blog Trolls are that you DO NOT feed them. Henceforth, I will not comment on any of Murat's posts or comments. Perhaps if we all adhere to this policy, Murat can find a different board on which to spew his knee-jerk anti-Americanism.

Posted by mjh 2003-03-31 07:27:35|| 2003-03-31 07:27:35|| Front Page Top

#17 REcommended engagement policies for trolls. Loosely adapted from "The Merry Wives of Windsor."

1. Designate troll. I.e. one poster says, "A troll!!"

2. Others acknowledge presence of troll.
I.e. "A fat troll!", "A stinking troll!" "An ignorant troll!" "A biased troll!" "Poor brain damaged troll!"

3. Never respond directly to troll.

4. In event that someone sadly responds to troll, direct comments to responder, NOT to troll. I.e. "You left out ...", "YOu probably didn't have time to cover...", "Don't forget, responder, that ..."

GOAL: Never address troll in second person ("you"). Refer to troll in third person, preferably third person impersonal.

Posted by Ptah 2003-03-31 08:12:04|| [www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-03-31 08:12:04|| Front Page Top

#18 Downscaling "anti-war" to "anti-Americanism", call it what you want, none of you have answers to how to liberate a people a la Vietnam style by killing them. Where are the great ideals of liberating a people when it comes to OIL poor Rwanda, where Tutsis kill Hutus by millions. This is not a liberation war, it is an OIL looting war

Posted by Murat 2003-03-31 08:16:35|| 2003-03-31 08:16:35|| Front Page Top

#19 human suffering is an integral part of war. it cannot be avoided.

the question is, have we targeted civilians in this conflict? if you look at baghdad and the number of sorties, we have taken every effort to avoid the situation outlined above. whereas the iraqis have directly targeted civilians both by placing military sites right next to civilian populations and direct terror of those same populations. it is this terror, that we seek to liberate the iraqis from.

murat can't refute the truth, he can only change the subject.

finally, and in my opinion, all weblogs should be open to a dignified discussion on the conflict, limiting the discourse only feeds our predisposed positions as well as limiting our ability to listen.

V

Posted by Timmy the Wonder Dog 2003-03-31 08:29:24|| [morningthunder.blogspot.com] 2003-03-31 08:29:24|| Front Page Top

#20 Murat. Here's some Turkish cowboys:

http://www.cilicia.com/armo10.html

Enjoy.

Posted by tu3031 2003-03-31 08:33:28|| 2003-03-31 08:33:28|| Front Page Top

#21 I agree with mjh. Murat is not interested in discussion, only dissemination of his propaganda. From now on I'm going to scroll through his posted articles without even reading them, they all sound the same anyway.

Posted by charlotte 2003-03-31 08:35:08|| 2003-03-31 08:35:08|| Front Page Top

#22 Thanks Ptah! You documented the blog troll ROE's far better than I could have!

Posted by mjh 2003-03-31 09:05:55|| 2003-03-31 09:05:55|| Front Page Top

#23 BTW

A thought just occurred. There is an almost tragic irony that those who wish to criticize America for everything under the sun-the only way many have found their voice is through technology developed in the good ol' US of A!

Posted by mjh 2003-03-31 09:09:28|| 2003-03-31 09:09:28|| Front Page Top

#24 Murat you have it backwards - it was hutu extremists killing tutsis (and hutu moderates) by the millions. we tragically failed to intervene. It should be noted that the French were quite eager protectors of the genocidaires, and that the new, anti-genocide govt of Rwanda supports the Coalition.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-03-31 09:12:30|| 2003-03-31 09:12:30|| Front Page Top

#25 Why was this posted here?

Posted by anon 2003-03-31 09:14:41|| 2003-03-31 09:14:41|| Front Page Top

#26 "...in my opinion, all weblogs should be open to a dignified discussion on the conflict, limiting the discourse only feeds our predisposed positions as well as limiting our ability to listen."

I disagree, Timmy. This blog does have an open forum feel about it, but essentially Fred's at liberty to decide what stays. It's for relevant (and preferably reliable) information on the WoT, not nebulous opinion pieces and shoddy reporting that supports one individual's biased views. Most people who post here do so with respect to the ethos of the site.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-03-31 09:46:32|| 2003-03-31 09:46:32|| Front Page Top

#27 Inominate Murat for the biggest TROLL on rantburg. Again, look at the nature of his posts, his editing/hilighting, his lack of context, and his slant.

Murat is not REPORTING, he is PROPAGANDIZING, as surely as Iraqi TV does for Iraq and Geobbels did for the Third Reich.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-03-31 10:18:07|| 2003-03-31 10:18:07|| Front Page Top

#28 FYI Murat, its NOT about OIL.

Were that the case, Bush could have papered over the WMD and accepted the bogus UN reports.

He coudl have then ignored the Human Rights Violations like we do with the brutal racist savages people and Government in Turkey when they go after Armenians and Kurds and attempt genocide.

Then Bush could have simply cut a deal and let his oil company buddies cozy up to Saddam and make a LOT of money. Cost him less, makes money for his pals.

So your "Its all about Oil" Doesnt cut it with anyone other than propagandists and Workers Party communist dupes.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-03-31 10:24:22|| 2003-03-31 10:24:22|| Front Page Top

#29 This article adds nothing to our understanding of the war. Maybe Murat intends to drive away Rantburg visitors.

Posted by Pink & Fluffy 2003-03-31 10:52:08|| 2003-03-31 10:52:08|| Front Page Top

#30 It raises the interesting question: for our napalm bombs, are they GPS Guided now? muwahhaa

Posted by Brian 2003-03-31 10:54:52|| 2003-03-31 10:54:52|| Front Page Top

#31 I think its fine for Murat to have his opinion, but posting these non news articles is wasting my time.
I value rantburg as a news source, and have always appreciated the lack of human interest stories.
Clear the sh*t out.

Posted by flash91 2003-03-31 11:16:55|| 2003-03-31 11:16:55|| Front Page Top

#32 bulldog, i'm aware that Fred is at liberty to bounce me (i've been bounced from two liberal sites). simply put, my point is that if everyone is of the same mindset on an issue, a tremendous amout of fawning occurs (everyone congratulating each other over how smart they are).

i prefer a sound debate.

V

Posted by Timmy the Wonder Dog 2003-03-31 11:45:49|| [morningthunder.blogspot.com] 2003-03-31 11:45:49|| Front Page Top

#33 One last shot:
Murat, has the building code in Turkey changed to protect people from collapsing buildings in a 1.0 earthquake? It must suck to live in a corrupt world eh?

Posted by RW 2003-03-31 11:50:27|| 2003-03-31 11:50:27|| Front Page Top

#34 Brian: as far as I know, the US hasn't used Napalm since Vietnam. It's been declared "cruel and unusual" warfare, and the UN banned it, I believe.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-03-31 12:09:51|| 2003-03-31 12:09:51|| Front Page Top

#35 Murat, what's Turkey's excuse?

We've killed less than Turkey, water, electricy and sewer are still running. People are trying to go back to work in a war zone. What does that say?

Posted by Anonymous 2003-03-31 12:30:19|| 2003-03-31 12:30:19|| Front Page Top

#36 How's that Turkish stock market doing?

Posted by someone 2003-03-31 13:12:56|| 2003-03-31 13:12:56|| Front Page Top

#37 Old Patriot, you've ruined my day with that news. Maybe when the UN is tossed on the ash-heap of history, we can go back to the good ol' days.

With regards to Murat in general, JS Mill highlighted the utility of people like him: useful idiots. If the Mirror is the best that he has for the anti-war argument, we've won. Let him freely speak, he knows his cause is doomed.

Posted by Brian 2003-03-31 16:01:37|| 2003-03-31 16:01:37|| Front Page Top

#38 Great.
Now we have to put up with crappy Ministry of Dis-Informationists at Rantburg.
No. I don't.

Soooo sorry a certain country's economy is tanking.
Maybe the time of the hand-outs for fair-weather, backstabbing, "friends" is over.

The troll can take it's propoganda and shove it.
When it starts complaining about the goddamn killers that have ruled Iraq and the babies that they have killed with utter glee, maybe it might gain a little credibility.
Until then, all it's joy over dead civilians (which, it can't prove were killed by the coalition), and smug assholishness over friendly fire incidents just reveal what a prick it is.

Oh yeah:
IT'S ALL ABOUT OIL.
What an unimaginative little troll to boot.
Can't it come up with anything else?

Posted by Celissa 2003-03-31 16:06:31|| [www.celissasblog.com/weblog.php] 2003-03-31 16:06:31|| Front Page Top

#39 Bulldog:
Turkish parents at the school have responded by complaining that German pupils never sought to make friends with their Turkish classmates.
So they beat the crap out of the students?

It's always someone else's fault.
Sounds just like the Pukestinians.

Posted by Celissa 2003-03-31 16:10:26|| [www.celissasblog.com/weblog.php] 2003-03-31 16:10:26|| Front Page Top

#40 Seems to me the"It's only about oil"argument no longer holds water.If all we wanted was oil then why didn't we sieze the oil fields and call it quits.

Posted by raptor 2003-04-01 08:19:21|| 2003-04-01 08:19:21|| Front Page Top

08:32 raptor
08:19 raptor
08:03 Ptah
07:22 Ptah
07:16 Ptah
07:14 Ptah
06:50 Ptah
06:13 George
05:57 Former Russian Major
00:58 tbn
00:47 Brew
00:44 Dishman
00:35 ziphius
00:34 Brew
00:31 Brew
00:29 ziphius
00:24 Anonymous
00:18 Brew
00:11 Anonymous
00:03 Anonymous
00:00 Tom Schaller
23:59 Brew
23:59 Reed
23:53 Reed