Article

2004-12-30 International-UN-NGOs

Bush 'Undermining UN with Aid Coalition'

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Posted by mojo 2004-12-30 4:33:48 PM|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "You! . . . You there! . . . You Americans! . . . Take that food and those medical supplies and tents and put them back on that C-130 and go back where you came from, do you hear me! . . . Don't give me that nonsense, Mister Unilateral Cowboy! It doesn't matter if those people are sick or starving or not, you don't have the moral authority to be giving them aid in the first place."

Smugly congratulating himself for successfully upholding the sanctity of International Law in the presence of reporters, the UN/EU/NGO official turns his back on the scene of the disaster and boards the Dassault Falcon waiting to take him to the next international conference, at which he will condemn the Bushitler administration for not doing enough for tsunami relief.

Posted by Mike 2004-12-30 6:08:20 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:08:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Clare's right, as usual. It's not about improving lives or actually helping anyone in meaningful ways. It's all about bashing the evil US warmongers.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 6:10:18 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:10:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I'd like Clare to be eaten by hungry survivors

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 6:14:06 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:14:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 why shouldn't bush undermine the UN they are quite addept at undermining anything the US has too do with

Posted by smokeysinse 2004-12-30 6:18:07 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:18:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Maybe the UN will not insult the US and it's people next time. But after the oil for food scandal she has to be kidding.

Ms Short and ESAD, FOAD, and SMC can choke on it.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-30 6:29:33 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2004-12-30 6:29:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 My God, Frank G, don't you think the hungry survivors have suffered enough? ;-)

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-12-30 6:31:47 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:31:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 maybe - I just thought she should get credit for feeding the hungry

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 6:32:58 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:32:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Clare's got a point...the UN will convene its "Committee for the Discussion of the Appropriate Global Response to the Natural Disaster of Going on Two Weeks Ago" on 6 January, and then promptly break for lunch. Surely Dubya is just twiddling his thumbs 'til 5 January...just to make the UN look bad.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-30 6:49:32 PM|| 2004-12-30 6:49:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Last laugh! Dubya is sending his brother!!!! Who just happens to have a little experience in diaster relief. Yep, Jeb leaves Sunday with Colin.

Gotta love that slap at the UN!

Posted by Sherry 2004-12-30 7:19:55 PM|| 2004-12-30 7:19:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I can't take it. Weren't we just accused of being "stingy"?? Wasn't Bush accused of being "insensitive" for not jumping in a boat and saving all those poor souls himself? And didn't Bubba himself say the US should take the lead in this effort, because we, uh, should? (I guess; I'm thinking it's just his way of trying to get more attention again.)

Good. I hope we undermine the UN. I hope we prove how useless that corrupt POS organization is. We'll still be considered pricks, though, because, gee, we're Americans.

I can't believe the focus is on America and what we are or aren't doing, what Bush is or isn't doing, and not on the fact 125,000 people lost their lives (and the number's only going to increase) and hundreds of thousands more are still in danger from the after effects.

Hey, Clare, honey: what's Mecca doing for those in Indonesia? Yeah, that's what I thought. Go have a meeting.

Posted by nada 2004-12-30 7:28:01 PM|| 2004-12-30 7:28:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Geez, nada - don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. :-D

I think Clare is aptly named - she's Short on decency, brains, and common sense.

Too bad she's not short on running her mouth.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-12-30 7:34:31 PM|| 2004-12-30 7:34:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 "U.N." as "moral authority". I don't think so.

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 8:12:48 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:12:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "It is the only body that has the moral authority. But it can only do it well if it is backed up by the authority of the great powers."

I think that's UN-speak for bullshit walks and money talks.

Posted by Matt 2004-12-30 8:14:35 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:14:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I think that Ms Short is a little concerned that this might start a trend and she and her compatriots will lose their place at the trough. The UN bureaucrats really like to spend other people's money on relief, particularly when they get a percentage and all the credit. They should all FOAD and it should be televised on pay per view to raise relief funds.

Posted by RWV 2004-12-30 8:16:37 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:16:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Remember the kid in school that always wanted to lead, carry the flag, be a captain to choose sides, etc, but no one liked them cuz they were sneaky snobs and nasty little shits who sucked up to the teachers all the time and ratted people out and wouldn't pass your notes in class?

Yep. They work at the UN. Or went to Europe.

Posted by .com 2004-12-30 8:18:44 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:18:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Actually, Sylwester doesn't work at the U.N. and didn't go to Europe.

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 8:26:36 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:26:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Lol, Tom! But what about, oh - never mind. It's leaving, never to return so I won't invoke its name.

Posted by .com 2004-12-30 8:39:46 PM|| 2004-12-30 8:39:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Well, after all, if we go helping people directly, how will the UN 'rats skim off their 40%?

Posted by jackal 2004-12-30 8:57:18 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2004-12-30 8:57:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 File this one under: "No good deed goes unpunished."

If we really wanted to make everything grind to a halt, all America need do is propose an aid-dollar matching funds program with the Islamic OPEC members.

Anyone heard of some billions for their woebegotten Islamic brethern forthcoming from those Muslim nations?

[crickets]

Posted by Zenster 2004-12-30 9:37:47 PM|| 2004-12-30 9:37:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 I'm sure they'll fund a lot of mosque rebuilding. Just no food, medicine, or water treatment.

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 9:45:45 PM|| 2004-12-30 9:45:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Anyone heard of some billions for their woebegotten Islamic brethern forthcoming from those Muslim nations? [crickets]

This reports Saudi Arabia pledged 10 millions.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 9:52:23 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 9:52:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 for Muslims only? If there were Jews needing help, would they help? Are there strings attached? You betcha, and you, Aris, would think that's OK, wouldn't you? Typical

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 9:58:23 PM|| 2004-12-30 9:58:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 In other words Saudi Arabia's pledging less than Pfizer, a US pharmaceutical firm.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 10:02:47 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:02:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Saudi Arabia less than Denmark and Pfizer. Seriously, this is all statistical nonsense because it doesn't include individual and corporate charitable gifts. Wanna bet what the tallies look like after that?

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 10:08:13 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:08:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 When you include corporate and charitable gifts, I'd guess you'll come out around 50-60% US, 15-20% Japan and every other nation below 4% of the total.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 10:18:21 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:18:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 You betcha

Then please do something useful for once, and provide your info. Or don't the people of this forum deserve to know?

, and you, Aris, would think that's OK, wouldn't you?

No, I would think that you are as always a trolling asshole kid whose words are mainly making me wonder whether you suffered parental corporal punishment. Depending on the case you would provide a hell of an argument either for or against it.

Fred's not responded yet to my email about your trolling. This war between us will end one way or another.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 10:18:25 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 10:18:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Oh pleeeeeease, Fred, don't take away our chew toy!

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 10:21:21 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:21:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Pfizer and I think Merck have already pledged ~$20M each in kind plus ~$10M each in cash. Similar gifts announced today from JP Morgan Chase and several other US multinationals, with many more to come. Gates pledged $3M yesterday and will probably ante up more. You could probably multiply his gift by 20 to arrive at what other US gazillionaires will contribute, and then triple it to account for other private US individuals. Pretty easy to see the US-- including corps and private individuals and charities-- exceeding $250M in rapid order here.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 10:22:21 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:22:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Amazon.com collected about 87,000 donations totaling $5.4 million for the American Red Cross as of this afternoon.

Posted by Tom 2004-12-30 10:26:54 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:26:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 How about the Mogen David Adom work side by side with the Red Crescent crews? Would that be OK with the Saudis? With you if it didn't work out because the RC refuses...would that be ok, Aris?

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 10:33:25 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:33:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 OK, then I'm probably off by an order of magnitude. If a screaming nut like Howard Dean can raise $40M practicaly overnight from <$200 small contributors, and if Amazon can raise $5M in a matter of hours, then it's likely that US small contributors, not gazillionaires, will contribute the majority of non-corporate private charity. Which means if Gates and the gazillionaires contribute maybe $100M, then small folks will contribute at least twice that, so there's $300M, minimum.

Charities will probably double that sum, as will corporations, so maybe we're looking at closer to $1.5B from non-governmental and private US sources. Which throws into relief all this nonsense about the US government's "stingy" contribution. I doubt the EU and UN will come up with 1/10th as much as private US sources alone.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 10:36:16 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:36:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 excellent take by Chris Muir

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 10:36:23 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:36:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Frank, we both know you are not asking me questions, you are just trolling. So why don't you stop pretending?

And instead of asking what-if questions, half of which are sheer baiting and innuendo, and the other half of which I have no clue why you are asking them at me (have I ever defended Saudi Arabia? *Ever*?) why don't you defend the assertion you yourself made with facts?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 10:40:36 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 10:40:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 I will. It's just a pledge, give them a couple hours.... You wouldn't mind it, would ya...LOL. I knew it!

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 10:45:07 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:45:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Unlike many people here, Frank, I've consistently opposed all forms of bigotry and racism, and that clearly includes antisemetism.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 10:48:27 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 10:48:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 yeah, yeah...some of your best friends are Jews, I know...

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 10:49:43 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:49:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 And by your words "I will" you mean "Right now I can't", which makes your earlier statement "you betcha" a lie.

Grow up for once. When you make a statement, have it mean what it means.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 10:50:16 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 10:50:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 :-) thanks

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-30 10:51:15 PM|| 2004-12-30 10:51:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Back in my highschool, nine years or so ago, I was alone in my classroom to defend both Israel and Jews as a whole from accusations of mass conspiracy and whatever. In Greek political forums I've been again often the sole voice defending Israel.

So, thank you, but I neither need nor am I intimidated by your moronic kindergarten disputes of where I stand. People who know me, know me. Idiots who don't have called me either an Israeli agent or an antisemite, either a communist or a capitalist tool. Whatever.

Some of *your* best friends are genocidal maniacs, I'm sure.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-12-30 10:55:28 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2004-12-30 10:55:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 I'm takin' my toys and going home. It's getting a lit'le rough in here.

Thought we were at the bowl game, US vs UN.....

But, it got to be player against player.
Anyway, still glad Duyba is sending brother Jeb to the Aisa!!! He brings some experiences the UN can never offer.

Posted by Sherry 2004-12-30 11:09:04 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:09:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 When you include corporate and charitable gifts, I'd guess you'll come out around 50-60% US, 15-20% Japan and every other nation below 4% of the total.

Actually at the moment the UK is the biggest doner to the cause, putting in Â£50 million (around $100 million US). The US government has pleged $35 million. Sorry patriots, time for the US to play catch-up.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:10:59 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:10:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 A snippet from the NY Times

The American aid figure for the current disaster is now $35 million, and we applaud Mr. Bush's turnaround. But $35 million remains a miserly drop in the bucket, and is in keeping with the pitiful amount of the United States budget that we allocate for nonmilitary foreign aid. According to a poll, most Americans believe the United States spends 24 percent of its budget on aid to poor countries; it actually spends well under a quarter of 1 percent.

Mr. Powell pointed to disaster relief and said the United States "has given more aid in the last four years than any other nation or combination of nations in the world." But for development aid, America gave $16.2 billion in 2003; the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, those numbers were $13.2 billion for America, and $29.9 billion for Europe.

Making things worse, we often pledge more money than we actually deliver. Victims of the earthquake in Bam, Iran, a year ago are still living in tents because aid, including ours, has not materialized in the amounts pledged.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:16:31 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:16:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 WA - You're obviously not including Pfizer, Merck, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup etc etc etc.

Have you read the posts above? Again, the point here is that the US private sector is bizarrely, perversely, not included in tallies like yours. Once you include the US private sector the picture gets lopsided in a hurry.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 11:17:21 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:17:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Utter crap from the NYT, which ought to know better-- this time of year they run ads all over their paper for their own private charity, the "Neediest Cases" or somesuch fund.

read the Chris Muir cartoon: the US private sector donates $34 BILLION each year, nearly as much as the entire EU contribution.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 11:19:34 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:19:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 It is the only body that has the moral authority~~to screw indigent countries~~

Note to Useless Nations:

Your blackmailing and law breaking days are over.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-30 11:22:47 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:22:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 the US private sector donates $34 BILLION each year, nearly as much as the entire EU contribution.

Of course. And i'm not for one moment calling the US people as private individuals stingy, far from it, so please don't take offence.

However your point seems to imply that the EU private sector / individuals don't contribute anything, which is of course a fallacy. Infact its the private individuals and companies in the UK that forced the UK government to up its contribution.

Shortly before the government announced it was tripling its contribution, the amount of money promised to the Disasters Emergency Committee, a grouping of a dozen leading British charities, had passed the Â£20m mark. By last night it was clear that more than Â£30m had already been promised or given. The appeal is expected to break all records.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:27:24 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:27:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 I doubt the EU and UN will come up with 1/10th as much as private US sources alone.

At around $155 million the UK alone already has.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:31:08 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:31:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 What about those 2 carrier groups of US Navy and Marines, that involves thousands of American military? Don't think that amount is calculated in that $35 million.

Or, would folks from NYT's, UN... etc. be happier if we just pretended they weren't there, arn't going there, and will do nothing?

So we all sit around till Kofi's Jan 6 meeting, waiting with extreme anticipation for his directions of how much and where, we direct our money, our resources, our talents and our desire to help out these folks.

Not on Bush's watch. This is just not who we are.... We give, our Navy, Marines, Air Force and Army are there.... our private American dollars are rolling in.... cause that is who we are...

Now, get off our backs.. let us do what we do best, in the ways that we do it best.

You want money? Speak to our "oil" producing countries. Where are their contributions? Haven't heard a word from them. But yet, Israel ... read LGF if you haven't heard all that they are already doing, even with Indo saying "NO" we don't want your help....

Get real.... This pettyness that has been brewing for the last year... well, I'm just about at the point, I want to say, "let's take our toys and go home."

Wonder how the rest of the world would exist if that happened?

Posted by Sherry 2004-12-30 11:31:14 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:31:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Bully for the Brits. Good on them etc. I remain skeptical that Britain's private contribution will be more than a small fraction of the US private contribution. I would estimate that the US private contribution here will be north of $1.5 billion, probably closer to $3B. I doubt Britain's private sector will provide more than 1/15th that amount.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 11:32:35 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:32:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 It's amazing how the only people making a big deal about monetary percentages are the ones that aren't receiving the aid. I'll bet that the recipient countries don't give a rat's ass about percentages.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-30 11:39:06 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:39:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 I doubt Britain's private sector will provide more than 1/15th that amount.

Perhaps. But i'm guessing that the EU private contribution (by sheer weight of numbers) will be higher in the end. But we can wait for those figures. For the moment its nice to see some international concensus, its been a while.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:39:34 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:39:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Fine, agree on that. It'd also be nice if the reality of US largesse were acknowledged for once.

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 11:40:38 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:40:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Just curious: what does it cost to send and operate a carrier group on a mission to the affected region for six months? Half a billion?

Posted by lex 2004-12-30 11:42:22 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:42:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Speak to our "oil" producing countries. Where are their contributions?

Source: Reuters

RIYADH, Dec 28 (Reuters) - Oil-rich Saudi Arabia pledged on Tuesday a $10 million aid package to victims of the tsunami disaster in Asia...

Neighbouring Gulf country Kuwait has pledged a little over $2 million in aid. The United Arab Emirates will donate 30 tonnes of food, blankets and clothing to the victims.

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:46:18 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:46:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 It'd also be nice if the reality of US largesse were acknowledged for once.

I don't think it's ever seriously in doubt. But sometimes the huge contributions made by EU countries are overlooked, even though when taken together they add up to as much.

And yes yes we're all very greatful for you saving our ass in WWII ok? :)

Posted by WingedAvenger 2004-12-30 11:50:27 PM|| 2004-12-30 11:50:27 PM|| Front Page Top

23:57 Bomb-a-rama
23:50 Zenster
23:50 WingedAvenger
23:46 WingedAvenger
23:42 lex
23:40 lex
23:39 WingedAvenger
23:39 Bomb-a-rama
23:35 Poison Reverse
23:34 lex
23:32 lex
23:31 Sherry
23:31 WingedAvenger
23:29 lex
23:27 WingedAvenger
23:27 lex
23:23 Capt America
23:22 Poison Reverse
23:20 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:19 lex
23:17 lex
23:16 WingedAvenger
23:10 WingedAvenger
23:09 Capt America