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2013-12-08 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by badanov 2013-12-08 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 Not to beat him down, but some of US on the earth do try to uphold some form of order.

I admire his attitude. as for idols, they work too hard.

Leaders who are not popular sometimes are the ones that leave Civilization more"civilized".

Legacy starts today. Do not go where I see South Africa going now.

Posted by newc 2013-12-08 00:35|| 2013-12-08 00:35|| Front Page Top

#2 Throughout the Reagan administration, American conservatives regarded South Africas apartheid government as a bulwark against communism, especially compared to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.

And today Washington works quietly with the ANC Gov't of South Africa [discreet Mil-to-Mil cooperation, LE and CT support to the 2010 World Cut, etc, etc.].....as a partner and "bulwark against" radical Islam and terrorism in Africa. Please explain to me the subtle differences.

I'll concede Halperin his title point, but it's not just 'conservatives' who have a Mandela problem. There is plenty of denial to go around.

Posted by Besoeker 2013-12-08 04:11|| 2013-12-08 04:11|| Front Page Top

#3 On the positive side Mandela did not become a tyrant when he had the opportunity. This makes him a much better man than most post colonial leaders.

But a moral authority or champion of freedom he was not.

He conducted realpolitik, the amoral pursuit of one's own interest. If tyrants were useful to his people then he didn't care one bit about the brother tyrants' victims.

Mandela was not a despot, but despotism's friend and enabler.

"would create a Cuba on the Cape of Good Hope at best and an African Cambodia at worst."

Mr Halperin should pay attention to the sequence of historical events.

First Castro was one the above mentioned despots that Mandela befriended and enabled.

Second SA's transition happened after the Soviet Union's unlamented demise.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2013-12-08 05:25|| 2013-12-08 05:25|| Front Page Top

#4 Addendum:
Here's a quote from Mandela's 1995 autobiography "Long Walk to Freedom":
"For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others."

According to his own definition of freedom Nelson Mandela was not a free man especially post 1990.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2013-12-08 06:08|| 2013-12-08 06:08|| Front Page Top

#5 Also from his "Long Walk to Freedom."

Nelson Mandela wrote that as a leading member of the ANCs executive committee, he had personally signed off in approving these acts of terrorism, the pictures and details of which follow below. This is the horror which Mandela had signed off for while he was in prison convicted for other acts of terrorism after the Rivonia trial. The late SA president P.W. Botha told Mandela in 1985 that he could be a free man as long as he did just one thing: publicly renounce violence. Mandela refused. That is why Mandela remained in prison until the appeaser Pres F W de Klerk freed him unconditionally. The bottom line? Nelson Mandela never publicly renounced the use of violence to further the cause of freedom.

Source link. (graphic fotos)

Posted by Besoeker 2013-12-08 07:45|| 2013-12-08 07:45|| Front Page Top

#6 OK, Plantation Party, you want something of note, here you go. Mr. Mandela worked, campaigned and fought for majority rule in his country. Why to you fight, undermine, and resist majority rule in your own country?

Posted by Procopius2k 2013-12-08 08:32|| 2013-12-08 08:32|| Front Page Top

#7 Che Guevara was a hero to the left. So was Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh and Trotsky. Toss Champ, Jane Fonda, and Hildebeast in also.

Posted by JohnQC 2013-12-08 09:29|| 2013-12-08 09:29|| Front Page Top

#8 it's Salon. Joan Walsh's mag. Nuff said

Posted by Frank G 2013-12-08 10:33|| 2013-12-08 10:33|| Front Page Top

#9 To the list at #7, perhaps we could add Charles Manson. Oh, wait! Those were Hollywood celebrities he and his cohorts murdered. He'll have to finish out his days in prison.

Posted by Besoeker 2013-12-08 11:12|| 2013-12-08 11:12|| Front Page Top

#10 I understand his wife was in the jewelry business and an avid soccer fan.

Posted by swksvolFF 2013-12-08 11:55|| 2013-12-08 11:55|| Front Page Top

#11 Nice snark SWKSVOLFF. Very nice

Posted by Frank G 2013-12-08 14:03|| 2013-12-08 14:03|| Front Page Top

#12 Some people felt South Africa would experience white flight, a rise in crime, and a drop into the third world under Mandela. Some people were right.

Posted by rjschwarz 2013-12-08 23:28|| 2013-12-08 23:28|| Front Page Top

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