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2004-12-07 Europe
US will return to Kyoto Protocol, says France
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Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-07 11:52:34 AM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 How is California going to take action on Kyoto, when they import so much power from out of state?
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-12-07 12:18:26 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-12-07 12:18:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 [span class=BugsBunny]
"He don't know me very well, do he?"
[/span]
Posted by Mike  2004-12-07 12:19:04 PM||   2004-12-07 12:19:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 "I am convinced that we are going to bring the United States into Kyoto, even if it doesn't want to," he said.

Not before 2008, at the earliest. And what's more, there's another hurdle to have to overcome, called the U.S. Senate..
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-07 12:20:15 PM||   2004-12-07 12:20:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Not to mention where the money to carry out such a protocol would be diverted from to pay for Kyoto adherence, were we "forced":

UN budget?
Aid to poor countries?
Debt forgiveness?
Somewhere even worse! :)
Posted by Jules 187 2004-12-07 12:24:36 PM||   2004-12-07 12:24:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 as long as China, India et al are exempt, there's no chance we'll voluntarily kill our economy to appease these assholes. The whole deal in CA is over CO emissions from cars...2008 or 2010 (not sure..) model cars will have even stricter emissions controls
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 12:25:45 PM||   2004-12-07 12:25:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Does anybody know where this guy Lepeltier gets his drugs?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 12:36:36 PM||   2004-12-07 12:36:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I believe his Ogalala brother Lawrence (?) Lepeltier supplies him with peyote from South Dakota
Posted by lex 2004-12-07 12:42:39 PM||   2004-12-07 12:42:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Please, tell me it's ScrappleFace! Did he say "rejoin the Kyoto Protocol"? What doesn't he understand about a 95-0 Senate vote? And why would a U.S. firm spending money it doesn't want to spend in Europe then lobby to spend even more on the home front? How very French.
Posted by Tom 2004-12-07 12:51:26 PM||   2004-12-07 12:51:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Famous last words: ".... we are going to bring the United States... even if it doesn't want to,"
Reminds me of a certain british king in the 18th century who thought he could tax us, even if we did not want to be.
Posted by Glereper Craviter7929 2004-12-07 1:15:29 PM||   2004-12-07 1:15:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Famous last words: ".... we are going to bring the United States... even if it doesn't want to,"
Reminds me of a certain british king in the 18th century who thought he could tax us, even if we did not want to be.
Posted by Glereper Craviter7929 2004-12-07 1:15:56 PM||   2004-12-07 1:15:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 we are going to bring the United States... even if it doesn't want to -FRANCE

"We are going to destroy France, even if it doesn't want it.." -USA
Posted by mmurray821 2004-12-07 1:17:46 PM||   2004-12-07 1:17:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 The whole deal in CA is over CO emissions from cars...2008 or 2010 (not sure..) model cars will have even stricter emissions controls

No new cars for me, as long as I'm still living in this basket case of a state.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-07 1:34:52 PM||   2004-12-07 1:34:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 I think they ought to change the name of the country to Scrapplefacia. They are officially satire-proof.
Posted by BH 2004-12-07 1:36:47 PM||   2004-12-07 1:36:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Perhaps by 2008 Phrawnche will be mandatory in California Schools so that you can read your car's owner's manual. Of course, you'll need Spanish so you can talk to the help. So the CTA will drop English from the curriculum..oh, they already have?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-07 1:37:58 PM||   2004-12-07 1:37:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 GC Reminds me of a certain british king in the 18th century who thought he could tax us, even if we did not want to be.

lol! You think they would learn.
Posted by 2b 2004-12-07 1:40:05 PM||   2004-12-07 1:40:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 It may not happen today and it may not happen tomorrow, but the United States will inevitably have to develop these technologies because they do not want to lag...
Hey, Frenchie, how many inches to a foot? how many feet to a mile? BTW, Thomas Jefferson formally proposed adapting the metric back in his administration. We're still waiting.
Posted by Don  2004-12-07 1:44:29 PM||   2004-12-07 1:44:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 yeah, the US is lagging the French in technology, huh? How much French software do you see? How's that French Carrier?
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 2:02:15 PM||   2004-12-07 2:02:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Don, you ignorant fool, it's not "metric" anymore -- it's "SI" (le "Systeme International"). Of course this stupid American computer system makes it too complicated to put a proper accent mark above the first "e" in "Systeme". And you will embrace Kyoto once you abandon your ignorant, foolish ways. And you will lust for Ta-rayza. And there will be portraits of Chirac on every wall. And your wife will wear the veil, though not in public. And your children will memorize the Koran. Slap me, someone! -- I need to awaken from this nightmare!
Posted by Tom 2004-12-07 2:07:07 PM||   2004-12-07 2:07:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Tom - Lol! Tahrayzah? Slap me, indeed!
Posted by .com 2004-12-07 2:09:22 PM||   2004-12-07 2:09:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 FrankG-
I use French software. It is called Veritas and is a backup application program and has more bugs than an amazon rain forest.

Piece of crap. Little wonder it is French made.
Posted by mmurray821 2004-12-07 2:23:31 PM||   2004-12-07 2:23:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 lol - bet it's an arrogant little bastard, too!
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 2:26:20 PM||   2004-12-07 2:26:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Duel fuel cars are selling in the U.S. faster than they are being built. Each year new houses are increasingly more energy efficient, as are household appliances (furnaces & air conditioners, hot water heaters, clothes washers & dryers, dishwashers). People are increasingly replacing high energy incandescent lightbulbs with low energy compact fluorescents, and extremely low energy bulbs should be coming on the market soon. Xeriscaping and gardening with native plants are all the fashion, reducing water and chemical usage. For that matter, how many fleece sweaters/vests/jackets do you own, which are made from recycled plastic bottles? Do you use recycled paper for your computer printer? Does your community provide curb-side recyling of glass/paper/plastic?

Even as Americans have more stuff, the pollution they are putting into the environment, and the energy they are taking out, are not increasing commensurately. (No, I do not have sources. This is a summary of all I've read on the subject over the past few years. But I have no doubt there are Rantburgers who can quote us relevent statistics.) Even those eeeevil factories have discovered that first cut increases in energy efficiency and decreases in their pollution load lead to major cost savings. Even simple reductions in package weight and introducing compact forms of current products, eg "ultra" laundry detergents, result in major reductions in shipping costs due to fewer trucks needed (decreased manpower, equipment and gasoline!).

I suspect the U.S. is doing about as well against Kyoto requirements as is France, without onerous government intervention. Indeed, as I recall, Kyoto signatory countries have made no progress against stated goals, and have even slipped from where they were when Kyoto was written. I would love to hear Bush, or someone at the cabinet level (maybe the new Sec.State?) make a major policy speech detailing U.S. progress on pollution/energy use/recycling, especially with regard to Kyoto goals, and detailing comparisons with various E.U. countries. And, mentioning in passing that when Clinton submitted Kyoto to Congress, as required by the Constitution, it was rejected 95:5.

Sorry for the rant, all, but I pay attention to Green issues, and this has bothered me for a long time.
Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-07 2:39:57 PM||   2004-12-07 2:39:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 When the Froggies get tough with China and India about emission standards, when they decide to get rid of their obscene agricultural subsidies, and when they decide that bribery is not part of international business, then we might listen to their proposals. Until then, it's easier to take North Korea seriously than France. Right now the French are just pissant wannabes.
Posted by RWV 2004-12-07 3:39:09 PM||   2004-12-07 3:39:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 TW - It didn't get a single vote in favor
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 4:10:19 PM||   2004-12-07 4:10:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 IIRC, even John Kerry voted against it...
Posted by Seafarious  2004-12-07 4:21:09 PM||   2004-12-07 4:21:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Excellent summary Trailing Wife.

The US will continue making environmental progress. The US will not let Europe choke the US economy using the anti-US Kyoto treaty. New, environmentally friendly technology will be introduced as economically feasible.

Threats against US companies operating in Europe will increase the cost of doing business in Europe so US companies will invest less money in Europe.
Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-12-07 4:23:41 PM||   2004-12-07 4:23:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Lepeltier lives in a fantasy world more elaborate than do the Arabs. Two can play the game of industrial base destruction. Put high tariffs on French pharmaceutical companies, unless all research and manufacturing is done in the US. Place mind numbing red tape on any leading edge goods they produce. Put several hundered percent tariffs on very high profit margin goods such as French cosmetics and high fashion. We can go far and have fun at this game.
Posted by ed 2004-12-07 4:36:37 PM||   2004-12-07 4:36:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 We are poluting less and enjoying it more all without Kyoto so why do we need it? Our anti-polution laws are even tougher in many respects than Europe. So Mr Phrog you lose again it seems.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-12-07 4:42:16 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-12-07 4:42:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 I was going to wait a few more days before posting this, but something unusual is happening in the southern oceans. The graphic shows temperature anomalies - differences from long term averages. The extensive cold areas in the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian oceans have only developed over the last 4 or 5 weeks and I have no idea what this means. It doesn't seem to be related to el nino/la nina.
Posted by phil_b 2004-12-07 5:59:19 PM||   2004-12-07 5:59:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Each year new houses are increasingly more energy efficient,..

In CA, whatever is gained in efficiency is lost in the insane home pricing.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-07 6:08:41 PM||   2004-12-07 6:08:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Lepeltier suggested the US federal government would be caught in a "vice". It would be pressured on one side by US firms doing business in Europe and on the other by US states, such as California, which are starting to take individual action on climate change, he predicted.I hate to say it but he's right. Once all US firms doing business in Europe comply with Kyoto there is no longer any thing required to comply so the US might sign at that point.
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-12-07 6:08:53 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.typepad.com]  2004-12-07 6:08:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Once all US firms doing business in Europe comply with Kyoto there is no longer any thing required to comply so the US might sign at that point.

RJ? *shakes head* San Diego boy? Any firm which absorbs Kyoto req'ts due to EU req'ts will be a failing company - they will have no influence in the US.
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-07 6:34:24 PM||   2004-12-07 6:34:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Okay, explain it to me...
My former employer is a U.S. company. It has manufacturing plants in about 20 countries. I can see the Kyoto cost in a plant in Europe, but how would that affect a plant in the U.S.?
Posted by Tom 2004-12-07 8:02:07 PM||   2004-12-07 8:02:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Anyone who thinks individual companies will comply with Kyoto (whatever that means since Kyoto says nothing about companies) is living in a fantasy land. All governments can do is tax energy or send energy intensive industries off shore which will be the main effect of Kyoto. So contrary to what the article says, European companies will send economic activities offshore including to the USA. That is, the economic effect of Kyoto will be the exact opposite of what the article says. I note that unemployment is rising in Kyoto signatories and falling in non-signatories.
Posted by phil_b 2004-12-07 8:07:51 PM||   2004-12-07 8:07:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Kyoto now has carbon trading which the US invented and wanted in the first place. The US is on the way to Kyoto standards anyway so as rjschwarz wrote, in a few years it may be worth signing. Also, other countries have signed, but they may not actually comply. I'm from Canada, we signed, but no one has forced me to replace my pickup with one of those little hybrids. Our gov't will just continue to make the right noises without actually doing anything, and I doubt we will be the only country doing the same thing.
Posted by Debbie  2004-12-07 8:11:02 PM||   2004-12-07 8:11:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Guys, wait a minute.....wasn't there something in Kyoto that violated the US Constitution? I can't remember what it was.
Anyway, 95 votes against and none for.....not even from Sen Kennedy and the other left wing environment guys......plus even Clinton was against it.....but the Frogs think they're going to cram it down our throats?
Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-12-07 9:50:54 PM||   2004-12-07 9:50:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Hope Froggy Boy enjoys sending his hard earned tax money to Russia and Pooty Poot.
Posted by Alaska Paul  2004-12-07 11:18:53 PM||   2004-12-07 11:18:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Yet another veiled attempt at re-distribution of wealth. Kyoto has nothing to do with environment, otherwise China and India would not be exempt. This is nothing more than guilt money being exacted by the UN so Third World thugs and dictators can line their pockets and buy weapons to subjugate their subjects.

Under Kyoto industrialized nations do not reduce pollution, they just buy credits from under-industrialized Third World nations.

If GWB weakens on this protocol and decides to be Santa Claus yet again with the UN, we're through economically. China and India are laughing to the bank.
Posted by Glomosing Crong 2004-12-07 11:44:24 PM||   2004-12-07 11:44:24 PM|| Front Page Top

00:04 Sherry
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22:56 Sock Puppet of Doom
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