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2010-09-02 Home Front: Politix
Obama's First Gun Sales Ban by Executive Order
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Posted by Thineck Uning6386 2010-09-02 00:00|| || Front Page|| [9 views ]  Top

#1 So... they want to ban the exact same firearms the government sells via the CMP? These Brady people are emotional idiots.
Posted by OldSpook 2010-09-02 00:18||   2010-09-02 00:18|| Front Page Top

#2 Garands outrange the Goat's Horn.
Posted by badanov 2010-09-02 00:43|| http://www.freefirezone.org  2010-09-02 00:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Hurry someone, tell me please the last time an M1 Garand was used in a robbery or terror incident? I fear this is simply the first or many more bans to come.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-02 02:50||   2010-09-02 02:50|| Front Page Top

#4 i suspect rantburgers are big on gun ownership. But for me, in Australia, where guns are very highly restricted, it's good.

Trust me, it's a much nicer place to be when the average person isn't packing heat.

I've been to the US and was genuinely shocked to find many people had guns in their cars, just carried them there like a spare set of keys or something.

It's really insane. You don't need guns trust me. Too many crazy psychos out there... restrict the access it's the best way.
Posted by anon1 2010-09-02 04:06||   2010-09-02 04:06|| Front Page Top

#5 No worries anon1. 'Convicts' are prohibited from gun ownership here as well. Visit us again soon.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-02 04:19||   2010-09-02 04:19|| Front Page Top

#6 No offense, but This sentence was redacted. Rantburg is about civil discourse particularly between friends. Let's keep it respectful. AoS.
Your crime rate has gone way up now that law abiding Aussies can no longer defend themselves from the criminals that don't obey gun laws.

You are...sitting Ducks.
Posted by Secret Asian Man 2010-09-02 04:20||   2010-09-02 04:20|| Front Page Top

#7 This sentence was redacted. Rantburg is about civil discourse particularly between friends. Let's keep it respectful. AoS.
The US has a written Constitution that contains a Second Amendment, the SCOTUS has been reinforcing lately. All Aussie guns were taken under a British Imperial law that your bloody Parliament never repealed, and which made it illegal as sedition to campaign AGAINST the gun law. Besides which, these are guns that the South Korean Government has purchased from the US and was trying to sell back to the American public via legal gun suppliers. Zero's order impacts them but not any M-1 or M-1 carbines being returned as military lease aid : those will still be refurbished in an armory and sold through the CMP. Zero is pissed that the South Koreans are trying to make a profit on the gun sales and that his Administration doesn't get a cut.
Posted by Shieldwolf 2010-09-02 04:34||   2010-09-02 04:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Clandestine Oriental Gentleman, pull your head in mate. I can tell you that, on an oz street at night, you might get a knife pulled on you, or a bottle, or a lump of 4 by 2, or a snake, jellyfish, shark or octopus, but someone pulling a gun on you is bloody unlikely.

(Except is some parts of Sydney or Melbourne and we all agree, they are a pretty wierd mob)
Posted by Bunyip 2010-09-02 04:34||   2010-09-02 04:34|| Front Page Top

#9 Easy on our cousins Shielfwolf. By the time Barry Soetoro is finished with us, we might need a place down under to retreat to. Many former South Africans and Rhoddies are getting along nicely there.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-02 04:51||   2010-09-02 04:51|| Front Page Top

#10 There is a symbolic significance to this particular ban that hasn't been mentioned. M1 Garands are the standard rifle available through the Civilian Marksmanship Program:

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a U.S. government-chartered program that promotes firearms safety training and rifle practice for all qualified U.S. citizens with special emphasis on youth. Any U.S. citizen who is not legally prohibited from owning a firearm may purchase a military surplus rifle from the CMP, provided they are a member of a CMP affiliated club.[1] The CMP operates through a network of affiliated shooting clubs and state associations that covers every state in the U.S. The clubs and associations offer firearms safety training and marksmanship courses as well as the opportunity for continued practice and competition.

A lot of retired military join this program, and purchase a basic M1 this way.
Posted by lotp 2010-09-02 05:49||   2010-09-02 05:49|| Front Page Top

#11 So that explains it. Guns and retired military personnel....two of this administration's least favorite things.

(BTW, anon1, if guns freak you out that bad, you may want to avoid Switzerland. I believe per capita they pack even more heat than we do. If any country can demonstrate that it's not the number of people carrying guns, but the kind of people carrying guns that is a problem, it's Switzerland. I like to think that the people carrying here are more like the Swiss and less like the Somalis, IYKWIMAITYD.)
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2010-09-02 06:12||   2010-09-02 06:12|| Front Page Top

#12 Anon1, it's a right guaranteed by the constitution. We Americans have this crazy idea that people should be responsible for their own safety. Any policeman will tell you that their job is not to protect the citizenry, but merely to arrest the perpetrators afterward.
Posted by gromky 2010-09-02 06:22||   2010-09-02 06:22|| Front Page Top

#13 Incongruent thinking down under...
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-09-02 08:15||   2010-09-02 08:15|| Front Page Top

#14 Ausie, My father and a few million other Americans entered London, Northern Africa, and Brisbane to help nations all over the world fight off crazies (specifically, socialist governments with their sheeple blindly following leaders like Hussein who only got guns to do crazies to other nations "for the good of society"). The socialists first had to subdue their own people then go after the world. My father and his buddies had too many guns for crazy socialists to get away from anything here in the US of A. Then they went after any brutal socialist who allied with other bad boys.

If you haven't noticed, Chicago Hussein and his gang are going after Americans as hard as he can to get them out of his Zeta and Mohammed buds from within here. Soon as he thinks he has this country under his thumb, you are next, bozo. World Caliphat or some sht like that for you, Spain, and a few other places Zero and Mabell would like to rule.
Posted by Hupusosing Bucket8370 2010-09-02 09:13||   2010-09-02 09:13|| Front Page Top

#15 ahh Besoeker you are always welcome to kip at my place. Welcome anytime.

Hey Bunyip nice to see a countryman round these parts :)

You know the love of owning guns is deeply seated in the US.

And your country is fantastic, I love it, you can smell the freedom in the air.

Somewhere though I think the idea that freedom to own guns is necessary for freedom got in there - and that's your choice, you do what you want, it's your country.

I certainly don't want to offend in any way because the US is a truly great nation.

But I do notice that the risk of death by gunshot is much higher in the US than places like Australia or Britain where restrictions on gun ownership are tough.

We grow up in a non-gun-owning culture. It is really a very different mindset.

eg: when I went to the US I walked into a hunting shop for the first time and was truly shocked that I could pick up a handful of bullets and a massive big gun that looked like Arnold Schwartzenegger used in the Terminator. And I could just buy it over the counter. I couldn't believe it. I was scared to touch the weapon. I told the lady behind the counter that we don't have that in our country, or at least not that easy. You can buy guns but there is a long permit process and you need to have a gun safe bolted to the floor, criminal history check etc.

Nobody really buys them but farmers, hunters and sports shooters and there's not many of them.

She just looked at me like I was from another planet and told me she felt sorry for me that I come from a country like that.

And I looked at her like she was from Mars and said I felt much safer there.

It is a broad cultural divide that I think has deep roots in childhood.

I noted her point was: what do you do if someone robs your house. Gromky is right, the police will only do the paperwork after and won't probe too deep. The Australian way is to sit tight, don't stress, tell the police and claim it on insurance. You can get a new stereo, not worth a life or a maiming.

But her way was : shoot the devils!

If I were a robber and I thought that someone catching me would kill me, I might shoot first.

I also noted her other point which was, if the crazies have the guns (and they do, organised crime always finds a way) then it's best if good people also have guns. Then when the bad guys start shooting a good guy will limit their damage.

But I have noticed that there are a lot of times when ordinary people have accidents with guns, or suddenly have a psychotic episode, or when their kids play with them and accidentally set it off...

Each to their own but I will just say that in Australia, we occasionally have our crazy shooters. But as a general rule we don't have many gun deaths because guns are hard to come by. I feel safer that way. It works for me, I'm glad my country is like that.

The US is a wonderful place and I love it dearly, and its people also. It's in the constitution that you shall have guns and deeply impregnated in the culture that if guns are taken away you could lose your freedom. Doesn't mean i love the US any less, but I always think in my heart that it would be nice if they did limit guns as i think that works pretty well in Britain and Australia. Of course, it might be a disaster, too... it would take a hundred years to wash the guns from the hands of the bad guys and you have that porous border with mexico (and its drug lords) so maybe it just has to stay as is...

Posted by anon1 2010-09-02 09:30||   2010-09-02 09:30|| Front Page Top

#16 "The transfer of such a large number of weapons could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the [DoS]spokesman told FoxNews.com.

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.

You got all that?
Bottom line: The State Department made it’s decision based on the logic that something “could potentially” happen. Geez…what more do you want? Now go cling to something - rube.
Posted by DepotGuy 2010-09-02 09:59||   2010-09-02 09:59|| Front Page Top

#17 Clandestine Oriental Gentleman, pull your head in mate.
...

Well my fine Legendary Swamp Dwelling friend, stop being such a drongo matey.

I've lived in the Oz...Kingsford NSW, nice place...usually. Look, when you need a gun and can't get one, but the criminals can, you might understand why it isn't a good idea to disarm law
abiding citizens.

Now...rattle your dags mate.
Posted by Secret Asian MAn 2010-09-02 10:03||   2010-09-02 10:03|| Front Page Top

#18 Warning: Godwin's law about to be invoked.

anon1, the original purpose for the constitutional right to bear arms was not for protection against robbers and rapists breaking into the house in the middle of the night -- in those dark days it was expected that the household would kill invaders, whether with gun, poker, or wooden shoes. Rather, it was so the citizenry could protect themselves against a rapacious government. For example [Godwin's Law jumps up and down, waving arms and crying, "My turn! My turn!"], my grandfather was not arrested by the SS that day as he sat in his law office because he was surrounded by two growling hunting dogs and a loaded rifle leaning up in the corner. By the time the SS men came back the next day, he and my grandmother had legged it across the border into Holland and safety.

We do not trust those who govern us to be innately wiser and purer than the ones in the past. So the intent was to equal the playing field, power-wise.
Posted by trailing wife 2010-09-02 10:13||   2010-09-02 10:13|| Front Page Top

#19 Something to keep in mind, the vast majority of people shot in the US are criminals shot by other criminals. Yes, innocent people can and do get hurt or killed sometimes, but by far, it's mostly criminals.

The other thing to remember is that gun accidents occur due to people being careless or untrained. We have FAR more children in this country die every year from buckets than firearms. Should we ban buckets?

One last thing, as my shooting mentor told me, there is no "accidentally shooting yourself while cleaning your gun." Those are attempted suicides. If you follow the rules of gun safety, that CANNOT happen to you. I've carried a .45 for over 5 years now. It's never shot me while cleaning it or jump out of my holster to shoot people randomly. I've never gotten so angry that I draw it to shoot people in a rage. As statistics show, legal permit holders are far LESS likely to engage in fights or disagreements of any kind, much less violent ones. We understand the responsibility and dangers imposed on us by choosing to exercise our right to be armed.
Posted by Silentbrick 2010-09-02 10:14||   2010-09-02 10:14|| Front Page Top

#20 A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

This is the same State Department that is enamored with the Global UN small arms treaty.

Who do they think are going to get these firearms? Why shouldn't Americans have access to them?

We have had a Civilian Marksmanship program that has made M1s available since 1996. The program (under various names) has origins that can be traced back to the early 1900s.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-09-02 10:33||   2010-09-02 10:33|| Front Page Top

#21 TW, you might be surprised at the overlap between guys like the SS and the Nazis and freelance criminals and the like. Tyrranical governments in general work to cultivate an attitude of lawlessness among the population. Examples of this that spring to mind are, well, both Krystallnacht (yah, I'm prob. spelling that wrong) in Germany and the current murderous lawlessness gripping Venezuela. Random crime becomes an instrument of state policy and the limitations on self-defense make people more dependent on the state, and the distribution via patronage of police protection can become one more lever to use to control the population.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-09-02 10:35||   2010-09-02 10:35|| Front Page Top

#22 said I felt much safer there.

And there's your mental illness: you value feeling more than facts.
Posted by No I am The Other Beldar 2010-09-02 10:45||   2010-09-02 10:45|| Front Page Top

#23 Hey Trailing Wife... LOL Godwin's law is invoked :) Very interesting, and good on your grandparents. Very smart, and glad they legged it.

The Other Beldar.... Actually the statistics don't lie, the numbers bear it out. I'm much safer from dying of gunshot in Australia than in the US.

But having said that it may really be far more dangerous to try disarming the US given the number of guns in circulation and the cultural divide. So I say if it works for you continue. The US is a very clever country, people underestimate it all the time. Even now, post-GFC, with housing on the ropes and Govt debt massive. Just watch, the US will shake it off and rise again because it has the brightest and the freedom for them to shine
Posted by anon1 2010-09-02 11:29||   2010-09-02 11:29|| Front Page Top

#24 Just watch, the US will shake it off and rise again because it has the brightest and the freedom for them to shine

Zero is doing his best to stop that...
Posted by Beavis 2010-09-02 12:26||   2010-09-02 12:26|| Front Page Top

#25 The Swiss approach is one aspect that leads to reduced crime. The Swiss are also multicultural/multilingual with German, French, Italian and Romansh. However, if you break down statistics in the US by non-Politically Correct categories you'll divine what the ruling class doesn't want you to know about gun violence in the country and in the regions and cities.
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-09-02 12:31||   2010-09-02 12:31|| Front Page Top

#26 tw - has that story of your grandfather's encounter with the SS in his law office been formally published? It's a gem & desires much wider circulation than just a comment on Rantburg.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-09-02 13:09||   2010-09-02 13:09|| Front Page Top

#27 safer? Only if you put the blinders on to gunshots. Aus is much more of a monoculture than the US. Assault, battery, etc, you are NOT safer, you are fooling yourself. The differences are not guns, its culture. Compare US Ghetto and drug culture to anything of the sort in Aus. If you are too stupid to see that its not guns, then there is no helping you.
Posted by No I am The Other Beldar 2010-09-02 14:03||   2010-09-02 14:03|| Front Page Top

#28 But for me, in Australia, where guns are very highly restricted, it's good.

Those Indian students who were knifed to death are unavailable for comment.
Posted by Sleque Barnsmell1141 2010-09-02 14:23||   2010-09-02 14:23|| Front Page Top

#29 If you are dealing crack on the street in downtown DC or South Central LA your chances of getting shot are probably higher than if you live in Oz. But if you stay home in a nice, respectable suburb and keep your nose clean you will probably be OK. Kinda depends on your choice of lifestyle. But if you live in Arizona and the cartel boys use your property for one of their "corridors" you might want a little more protection than is currently offered by the US Government.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-09-02 15:34||   2010-09-02 15:34|| Front Page Top

#30 has that story of your grandfather's encounter with the SS in his law office been formally published?

No, it's not in my grandmother's memoir, Anguper Hupomosing9418. It's just a little thing my mother mentioned in passing about a year ago, while talking about how she and her mother hunted for mushrooms and wildflowers in the woods while her father was out with the dogs and the gun. I'd no idea that her father did such things, any more than I'd know that my father was a shooting/sniping instructor for the Haganah, back in the day. I grew up in the anti-gun milieu of 1960s-'70s academia, and my parents never said a word about their own opinions on the subject.
Posted by trailing wife  2010-09-02 15:51||   2010-09-02 15:51|| Front Page Top

#31 Anon1, your appraisal of gun ownership is a lot more mature than most of the people I grew up with. I mentioned to one that I was just considering a firearm because there was a spate of meth induced robberies (guesses and confirmed later) and my pregnant wife wanted something a bit more protective than foul language. I would have to put meth users towards the bottom of the codial thief list and that is real world knowledge not stereotyping. Childhood buddy was shocked I was even considering it, looked at me like I could go crazy at any minute. I had to explain to him that some magic mouse in a funny hat does not fly about animating firearms which then go off on their own and that in many ways it is a lot like buying a vehicle - I am responsible for the safe operation of my car just as with a firearm and, like a spare tire, hope I never have to use it but want to know how to fix a flat before I have to fix a flat. And that he was more dangerous when he was talking on his phone while driving than every firearm owner who has never made the news.

Part of the 2nd Amendment is that the citizens should trust the government to trust the citizens. This statement as to why this executive order is weak tea.
Posted by swksvolFF 2010-09-02 16:29||   2010-09-02 16:29|| Front Page Top

#32 If someone breaks into your house, and you don't have a gun, how are you going to shoot them?
Posted by Lowspark 2010-09-02 18:04||   2010-09-02 18:04|| Front Page Top

#33 If someone breaks into your house, and you don't have a gun, how are you going to shoot them?

I think that's why God invented pokers, Lowspark. Of course, if you've got electric heat, right about now you've got a problem... unless you've got a baseball bat lying handy. ;-)
Posted by trailing wife 2010-09-02 18:08||   2010-09-02 18:08|| Front Page Top

#34 Yeah TW, I've got a poker too. It was just an attempt at humor in that the assumption is that all intruders must be shot.
Posted by Lowspark 2010-09-02 18:56||   2010-09-02 18:56|| Front Page Top

#35 Sadly I don't have a poker. I DO Have a short sword, a Kukri and 2 machete's I use for field work. Failing that, I'm fairly certain that the old butt stroke to head or groin with my M-1 Garand would work.

So happy our ROTC department included bayonet training:)
Posted by Silentbrick 2010-09-02 19:26||   2010-09-02 19:26|| Front Page Top

#36 I'm kinda like Silentbrick, got enough tools and such laying around a perp would be lucky to just get shot at.

Lowspark, I know a guy who could make you a fine bow just in case a deer tries to burglerize ya'

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/aug/23/deer-crashes-through-window-weavers/
Posted by swksvolFF 2010-09-02 21:13||   2010-09-02 21:13|| Front Page Top

#37 Wow, did the comments ever go askew here.
Posted by OldSpook 2010-09-02 23:34||   2010-09-02 23:34|| Front Page Top

23:56 rammer
23:34 OldSpook
23:25 Besoeker
23:01 Frank G
22:58 Mike Ramsey
22:58 Frank G
22:56 Frank G
22:56 Water Modem
22:32 anon1
22:28 Rhodesiafever
22:11 nuevo laredo group
22:07 Rambler in Virginia
21:40 Mullah Richard
21:37 Frank G
21:35 Spatch Speaking for Boskone8774
21:27 Hupusosing Bucket8370
21:13 swksvolFF
21:10 anon1
21:05 anon1
20:57 Entertaining Prose
20:42 anon1
20:29 Frank G
20:27 Procopius2k
20:26 trailing wife









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