Article

2005-09-28 Home Front: Tech

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-09-28 12:40|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Driving up I-55 I saw fields of a different looking soybean with signs proclaiming it Bio-Diesel for energy independence.

Posted by 3dc 2005-09-28 14:12|| 2005-09-28 14:12|| Front Page Top

#2 Originaly, the first diesel engines were powered by vegtable oil. Conceptualy it is sound, BUT (There's always a but involved) the veggie oil production does not scale well. In the final result, your production costs work out at something like $20-$30 a gallon, if I recall correctly.

Posted by N guard 2005-09-28 14:31|| 2005-09-28 14:31|| Front Page Top

#3 I'd be interested in seeing how its combustion properties stack up against regular diesel as well. It sounds like you're getting 25% more fuel, but if you need to burn more the number is a lot lower.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2005-09-28 15:24|| 2005-09-28 15:24|| Front Page Top

#4 N gaurd:

E85 is a much better way to go (15% gasoline, 85% pure alcohol) on the production front. It's not useful for the military IMAO as they only use diesel.

Posted by Secret Master 2005-09-28 16:09|| 2005-09-28 16:09|| Front Page Top

#5 Walmart doesn't charge $20 for Wesson oil, and I understand that's what we're talking about here. And if the oil was used for cooking, it's effectively free, though it smells like you'r driving behind a MacDonalds.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-09-28 16:23|| 2005-09-28 16:23|| Front Page Top

#6 At $2.50-3.00/gallon (tax included), it looks like biodiesel is competitive. Problem is that supply is limited.
DOE: Biodiesel Performance, Costs, and Use
Table 3. Projected Production Costs for diesel Fuel by feedstock, 2004-2013
(2002 Dollars per Gallon)
Printer Friendly Version
Marketing Soybean Yellow
Year ........ Oil ........ Grease Petroleum
2005/06 .. 2.49 ..... 1.39 ... 0.78 (someone was optimistic about petrol)

This table takes out agricultural subsidies, so the pump price would be lower (see link). But since petrol is now higher, the production and transport costs of grease and soybeans also go up.

The CCC payments effectively reduce the variable cost of additional soybean oil and yellow grease biodiesel to $1.10 and 53 cents per gallon, respectively, in fiscal year 2004. Additional units produced in fiscal year 2004, however, become base units in fiscal year 2005 and are eligible only for much smaller, and declining, base production payments. The variable cost of soybean oil and yellow grease biodiesel added in fiscal year 2004 jumps to $2.32 and $1.27 per gallon, respectively, in fiscal year 2005.

The transportation bill passed by the Senate on February 12, 2004, includes excise tax credits for biodiesel blending. The legislation allows diesel blenders to claim a credit against the applicable Federal motor fuels excise tax if a batch of diesel fuel contains biodiesel. If the blender uses biodiesel made from virgin oil, such as soybean oil, the credit is $1 (nominal dollars) per gallon of biodiesel. If the blender uses biodiesel made from nonvirgin oil, such as yellow grease, the credit is 50 cents per gallon of biodiesel. The proposed legislation also includes business income tax credits at the same rates for the blending of biodiesel from virgin or nonvirgin oil. The proposed Federal tax credits would expire after 2006.

Posted by ed 2005-09-28 16:41|| 2005-09-28 16:41|| Front Page Top

#7 First sentence should start:
At $2.50-3.50/gallon

The $2.50 price is where used oil/grease is competitive while the $3.50 is for virgin soybean oil. Still I am philosophically opposed to burning food in engines (Clean your plate Johnny. There are starving kids in North Korea). I think a better payoff comes from building a large number of standardized nuclear plants and electric vehicles for the majority of drivers.

Posted by ed 2005-09-28 16:50|| 2005-09-28 16:50|| Front Page Top

#8 Biodiesel can use used cooking oil as well. Just filter out the chunky garbage and toss it into your tank. The US could use our fast food diet to race into energy independence if we started taking that fry cooking greese and used it in our vehicles.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-09-28 17:02|| 2005-09-28 17:02|| Front Page Top

#9 Actually, rj, it's pretty complicated. I saw a guy on TV making his own biodiesel out of used cooking oil. He had to filter it, dose it with lye, and jump through few a few other hoops before it was usable in a vehicle.

His multi thousand dollar do-it-yourself refining rig would not have fit in my garage, and the hours he spent getting "free" fuel were substantial.

Posted by Parabellum 2005-09-28 18:33|| 2005-09-28 18:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Biodiesel can use used cooking oil as well. Just filter out the chunky garbage and toss it into your tank.

Wouldn't it make more economical sense to reuse it in the fryers?

YES MARTHA, my family saved bacon grease.

Posted by NOLA Geek 2005-09-28 18:48|| 2005-09-28 18:48|| Front Page Top

#11 Wouldn't it make more economical sense to reuse it in the fryers?

After a couple of uses, no matter how carefully filtered, cooking oil/grease start to oxidize, ie it becomes rancid. So there is a limited ability to reuse the stuff for cooking, and burning for fuel then becomes the final stage. Assuming it can be done cost-effectively ... and you'll notice that I'm saying nothing about that! ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-09-28 21:45|| 2005-09-28 21:45|| Front Page Top

#12 Actually there is a biodiesel van driving around collecting used fry grease from restaurants and using it more or less straight. If someone was doing more than cooking it and filtering it they were probably trying to mix it with diesel (for cold temp) or preparing it for a higher performance engine than most people would consider practical for diesel.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-09-28 22:48|| 2005-09-28 22:48|| Front Page Top

23:55 Blitzen
23:53 3dc
23:51 Jackal
23:34 Paul Moloney
23:28 jules 2
23:20 Fun Dung Poo
23:14 dwwaag
23:11 Bomb-a-rama
23:10 BH
23:08 Bomb-a-rama
23:07 MunkarKat
23:03 Pappy
23:02 Bomb-a-rama
22:55 Bomb-a-rama
22:53 Pappy
22:52 Bomb-a-rama
22:49 Bomb-a-rama
22:48 rjschwarz
22:46 moonbeam
22:24 DMFD
22:08 Snoluns Hupatch6252
21:58 Biff Wellington
21:50 Bardo
21:48 trailing wife