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2010-09-09 --Tech & Moderator Notes
What's wrong with Koran-burning, explained in one succinct paragraph
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Posted by Mike 2010-09-09 09:05|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ]  Top

#1 Well Jimbo, it's a little like the "thumb in the eye" by the pig-headed imam who intends to build the Ground Zero mosque no matter what.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-09-09 09:23||   2010-09-09 09:23|| Front Page Top

#2 If the nutter in Florida wanted to make it interesting, now that he and his anemic cult have the worlds attention, he should agree not to burn the Holy Book with one condition precedent. The Imam Rouf must show equal sensitivity by publicly disavowing the Cordova Project and walking away. Of course he's a nut, so he won't. But sensitivity should beget sensitivity.
Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2010-09-09 10:08||   2010-09-09 10:08|| Front Page Top

#3 I think the big difference can be found in the Fahrenheit 451 story itself. In the novel, the purpose of book burning was to suppress knowledge and argument. This was also the rationale of the Nazis.

However, that is a very different reason from burning books, and record albums as well, because they are deeply offensive and destructive. Its purpose in not censorship, but an expression of utter rejection.

It is legitimate to destroy declarations of hate and evil, from "cop killer" music designed to incite assassination, pedophile screeds designed to invoke lust, and the endless calls for murder and destruction found in the Koran, and even more so in the Tafsir, the commentaries on the Koran, on which much Islamic "culture" is based.

There is no censorship possible in this, as there are perhaps a billion printed Korans in the world, which if they are in the standard Arabic, are identical. But that does not mean that we, as a people, are not free to show utter disdain to the ideas within.

Yes, we can legitimately have utter contempt for the myth and reality of Islam. And no, just because they place severe rules on anything they find offensive, does not mean that we should respect those rules one whit.

And always we need to remember that these are people who *kill* human beings for trivial reasons: a cartoon, dressing improperly, saying things they find offensive, *being* something they hate, like Jewish or Christian.

This deserves no respect or consideration. Until they behave like civilized human beings, they deserve to be treated like the animals they emulate. They cannot pretend civility on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, yet be utter brutes on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, but still expect us to treat them as civilized the whole week.

So feel free to burn, step on, or use as TP their "holy book". It is just bound paper, of no inherent value, and there are far more where it came from.
Posted by  Anonymoose 2010-09-09 10:16||   2010-09-09 10:16|| Front Page Top

#4 “That was mere foreplay. Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”

(German: “Das war Vorspiel nur. Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen.”)

Heinrich Heine, Almansor (1821)
Posted by European Conservative 2010-09-09 10:52||   2010-09-09 10:52|| Front Page Top

#5 Looky here, before I make any important decisions involving moral compasses,I always think to myself, "what would Jim Geraghty do?", and then I go out and do the opposite. Or sometimes I say, what would Mohammed do? And then I poop in my pants and feint. And then burn down some girls schools. But I'm just insane so don't mind me.
Thank you.


Posted by Goober Goobelopolous 2010-09-09 11:14||   2010-09-09 11:14|| Front Page Top

#6 I'd stay away from the "what would Mohammed do?", Goob. In most communities, that stuff will get you indicted for war crimes, convicted of morals offences, or at the very least, run out of town on a rail.
Posted by SteveS 2010-09-09 11:37||   2010-09-09 11:37|| Front Page Top

#7 European Conservative: And that is why intent is all important. It is too easy to focus on the destruction of Korans by burning. Would it assuage if instead, ten times as many Korans were just buried in a pit with pig offal?

It still does not try to censor the idea. But it clearly shows contempt, disdain, and disgust with the idea.

As would splashing Holy water on it, and performing an exorcism of its demonic content, yet doing little more than moistening its binding. Perhaps burying it in rock salt, another traditional way to ritually cleanse impurities.

Perhaps to seal two Korans, and make them into nice sandals. Or dip them in bacon grease to give a pet doggy a worry toy.
Posted by  Anonymoose 2010-09-09 12:02||   2010-09-09 12:02|| Front Page Top

#8 To follow from Moose's point. It's the opposite of the Fahrenheit 451 situation. F451 was about suppressing knowledge. Which is what those who want to stop the koran burning want.

The pastor is burning the book because he wants people to know what's in it.

At worse, the pastor is guilty of theatrical bad taste, about on a par with the typical Greenpeace or PETA stunt (the one's that aren't illegal).
Posted by phil_b 2010-09-09 12:20||   2010-09-09 12:20|| Front Page Top

#9 AP decides to self-censor, and will not distribute images or audio of Korans being burned.
Posted by  Anonymoose 2010-09-09 12:37||   2010-09-09 12:37|| Front Page Top

#10 Before any of you go making this nutcase into some kind of brave hero standing alone against dhimmitude, remember, he's tied in with the Westboro "Baptist" "Church" crowd. You know, the ones who go around desecrating the funerals of American soldiers killed in action. Yeah, them.

Now, thanks to this clown, we're going to spend a significant fraction of 9/11 talking about him and his publicity stunt instead of remembering what actually happened on 9/11/01.

To put it mildly, this is not advancing the cause of civilization in any meaningful way.
Posted by Mike 2010-09-09 12:39||   2010-09-09 12:39|| Front Page Top

#11 So feel free to burn, step on, or use as TP their "holy book". It is just bound paper, of no inherent value, and there are far more where it came from.

If its good enough for the Sears Catalog its good enough for the Koran.

Well said Mr Moose
Posted by BrerRabbit 2010-09-09 12:44||   2010-09-09 12:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Hold on a second, I wanna play what would mo do?

There is the possibility, since the guy couldn't read, after succombing the community one way or another he would gather and burn any and all books so that he would be the ultimate authority in any matter.

I'm not sure who Jim is or why he is qualified to have an opinion, and I do not necessarily disagree with his premis, but in fact there are many instances where items which are part of the family of "technology product which conveys ideas", of which books belong to, have been destroyed and celebrated. Flags and effigies are representative of ideas same as books. What about draft cards? That is paper and ink same as the korn. I have seen hippies smoke Bible j's at a 420 rally. What was the crap movie where the world got cold real quick and the kids trapped in the library burned the books to keep warm? I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant warehouse storing all the old school text books. I used a newspaper to start a campfire and cook food and I was kinda happy to eat what does that make me?

So yeah Jim go about your day talking like pop culture and pop literature is the ultimate authority. I've read the thing and seen the cultures it inpires so to paraphrase Chris Rock, "I wouldn't do it...but I understand why."
Posted by swksvolFF 2010-09-09 12:46||   2010-09-09 12:46|| Front Page Top

#13 What is needed is to change the prominent paradigm.
Instead of being a Koran burning , they should change the title to a celebration of Ramadan.
So far since Ramadan started 28 days ago, there has been 201 terror attacks by the Religion of Pieces. Dead bodies associated with said glorious terror attacks by the religion of Pieces number 937 and about 1700 seriously injured.
A drum roll as each glorious attack is commemorated should accompany each Koran as it is fed to the flames to glorify the god of the death cult, Islam.
Posted by tipper 2010-09-09 13:24||   2010-09-09 13:24|| Front Page Top

#14 If a crazy imam somewhere in the Middle East burned 200 copies of the Bible, would anyone care? Would it even be news? Would anyone be imploring him not to, for fear of provoking acts of terrorism?

No.

When it comes to book burning, not all books are equal.

Most of the hammering this guy is getting is from people who have already consciously or subconsciously cowed themselves to the notion of Exceptional Deference to Islam.

It's just a nutter burning books - it's not the second coming of the Nazis. It would be a total non-story except for the fact that he's burning the Koran.
Posted by Bulldog 2010-09-09 14:05||   2010-09-09 14:05|| Front Page Top

#15 To put things in perspective:
The US military did burn Bibles to make sure they would not end up in Afghan hands, i.e. with an intent to censor information.

Double standard?
Posted by Omaing White7048 2010-09-09 14:15||   2010-09-09 14:15|| Front Page Top

#16 Farenheit 451 & Nazi Germany are poor examples. WRT book burnings and the aforementioned - Both were state or quasi-state sponsored events. At the end of the day this goofball in Fla is a private citizen and protected by the 1st Amendment. Instead of kowtowing to the panty-bunched muslims our leaders ought to be extoling the virtues of a free society where the rights of citizens to say what they think are protected even if you disagree w/the content of their speech.
Posted by Broadhead6 2010-09-09 14:18||   2010-09-09 14:18|| Front Page Top

#17 Tipper __ let me riff on your idea a bit, stealing from todays Day-by-Day cartoon.

Read a sura from the Koran that directly opposes a section of the US Constitution and let the audience decide what writing should be consigned to the flames.
Posted by Mercutio 2010-09-09 14:37||   2010-09-09 14:37|| Front Page Top

#18 The firebrand is likely to cancel the burning before Saturday. He is under strong pressure to do so. Reports include word of the church's insurance cancelled and the bank demanding full repayment immediately.

Perhaps the Pastor can take a leaf from the death cult's notebook and practise a little taquiya himself. Tell the media the burning is cancelled. Then go ahead and do it anyway.
Posted by Swanimote 2010-09-09 14:55||   2010-09-09 14:55|| Front Page Top

#19 Up is down, left is right.

Actually, a FIREMAN is the protagonist/hero of the book, and the moral dilemmas driving the plot run the good to evil spectrum amongst the firemen.

Enough literary criticism - on to symbolism.

Why doesn't the pastor simply claim this is performance art, apply for an NEA grant, and invite PBS and NPR to "document" the event?

It's been done before.
Posted by Halliburton - Mysterious Conspiracy Division 2010-09-09 15:02||   2010-09-09 15:02|| Front Page Top

#20 Phucking A, would somebody just go quietly burn some Korans, film it, and after the fact post it on Youtube. All this analysis paralysis is just the thing to distract from the real meaning pyro pastor is trying to broadcast which is: We will brook no nonsense from your Sharia and other despicable religo-culture.
Posted by Entertaining Prose 2010-09-09 15:39||   2010-09-09 15:39|| Front Page Top

#21 Ooops. Religo-culture
Posted by Entertaining Prose 2010-09-09 15:41||   2010-09-09 15:41|| Front Page Top

#22 Crap...despicable religious culture.
Posted by Entertaining Prose 2010-09-09 15:42||   2010-09-09 15:42|| Front Page Top

#23 Apparently the fact it's a book bothers some. Fine. Let's compromise in the way that the Muslims do.

Burn their prophet in effigy, then everyone can be happy. I hear bacon grease makes a nice flammable substance.

Oh and someone should build a shrine to Vlad the Impaler next to the ground zero mosque. Complete with impaled puppets outside, that twitch and writhe while screaming. After all, it's a free country, supposedly.

Honestly, that we even have to discuss it pisses me off. I don't care if they burn them or not. If I have to care about everything people set on fire, I wouldn't have time to burn my brush pile while giving the EPA the finger.
Posted by Silentbrick 2010-09-09 15:58||   2010-09-09 15:58|| Front Page Top

#24 Burn the black flag of jihad, then piss on the ashes.
Posted by mojo  2010-09-09 16:04||   2010-09-09 16:04|| Front Page Top

#25 I keep mulling over in my mind the images of the WTC on fire, the people jumping off the building to escape the fire, and the fire at the Pentagon. The SOBs who did this would have killed 300,000 or 3 million if they could have. Islam is not the religion of peace. It gets demonstrated day after day in horrible ways. Screw em. If the minister wants to burn the Koran, have at it--just another book. Books get destroyed everyday, they go out of print, they get shredded, re-cycled, etc. Basically, this is a distraction.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-09-09 16:09||   2010-09-09 16:09|| Front Page Top

#26 Don't just burn them. Read them first. Then burn them. At least then you'll know why burning them would be a good thing for the universe.
Posted by Goober Goobelopolous 2010-09-09 16:09||   2010-09-09 16:09|| Front Page Top

#27 I've used phone books for target practice to see how far a round penetrates.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-09-09 16:15||   2010-09-09 16:15|| Front Page Top

#28 Hot on the heels of the AP refusing to cover the story, now FOX News has announced it will not cover the story, either.

Granted, a big chunk of Fox (5%, second only to Murdock) is now owned by Saudi oil sheik Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who was throwing his weight around the minute he bought it, and has continued to do so, with no protest from Murdock.

In 2002, he said, “Arabs should focus more on penetrating U.S. public opinion as a means to influencing decision-making”.

Rudy Giuliani turned down $10m offered by the Prince after 9-11, that was seen as a clear example of "blood money", paid in Islam in exchange for not seeking revenge against a murderer.

The Prince has also paid $20m each to Georgetown and Harvard Universities, $500,000 to CAIR, and $27m to the families of Palestinian suicide bomber "martyrs".
Posted by  Anonymoose 2010-09-09 16:16||   2010-09-09 16:16|| Front Page Top

#29 The Prince's money came from us. We buy oil from Saudi Arabia. This guy gets richer than midas. All because we don't have a coherent energy policy leading to energy independence from OPEC and the Saudis.
Posted by JohnQC 2010-09-09 16:21||   2010-09-09 16:21|| Front Page Top

#30 Jerry Pournelle (the chap who sold SDI to Reagan) has some remarks on the subject

I also note from what I saw of his collection of books to be burned, none is a Koran. The Koran is explicit: it cannot be translated, and any copy in any language other than the original Arabic is not a Koran and must not be considered a Koran by any Islamic scholar. None of the books I saw in his collection are Arabic. Now he intends to be insulting and insulting he can be by burning a translation, but blasphemous against Islam (which I presume is his intent) he cannot be without an Arabic copy. Actually one wonders whether any such overt action of an infidel is any more sacrilegious than the existence of the infidel who has not submitted to Islam nor submitted to dhimmitude by paying tribute.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-09-09 16:47||   2010-09-09 16:47|| Front Page Top

#31 Just cannot remember who quoted " those who burn books, also burn people" or words to that effect.
Posted by pikestaff 2010-09-09 17:18||   2010-09-09 17:18|| Front Page Top

#32 When Fred Phelps backs your cause, it might just be time to re-evaluate
Posted by Frank G 2010-09-09 19:24||   2010-09-09 19:24|| Front Page Top

#33 koranpyrophobia n. An unfounded human fear of the burning of an innately useless, manmade object.
Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-09 19:45||   2010-09-09 19:45|| Front Page Top

#34 Seems to me that a lot of the pundits oppose to this stunt were fine with the piss Christ art thing
Posted by Rjschwarz 2010-09-09 20:35||   2010-09-09 20:35|| Front Page Top

#35 We are indeed surrounded by a sea of surrender monkeys. My dear Doctor, how much longer might we have?
Posted by Besoeker 2010-09-09 21:09||   2010-09-09 21:09|| Front Page Top

#36 @Anonymoose

I don't want people to burn books, no matter whst books it is.

I want Christians even less to burn books. There were times when the Catholic Church relished in book burning. Books that included the Talmud.

We don't do this anymore.

We don't stone people either just because THEY do
Posted by European Conservative 2010-09-09 21:38||   2010-09-09 21:38|| Front Page Top

#37 Apparently Phelps not only backs the cause, but will go ahead with the pyre if the Florida event is called off. (HT WZ)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think a solution has presented itself where everyone gets a little win.

Thanks for the link g(r)om, good stuff there.
Posted by swksvolFF 2010-09-09 21:43||   2010-09-09 21:43|| Front Page Top

#38 "Apparently Phelps not only backs the cause, but will go ahead with the pyre if the Florida event is called off."

Which could potentially take care of two problems at once, swksvolFF (if you know what I mean).
Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-09-09 23:10||   2010-09-09 23:10|| Front Page Top

23:31 anonymous2u
23:16 DarthVader
23:14 DarthVader
23:10 Barbara Skolaut
23:02 KBK
22:59 DarthVader
22:59 Skidmark
22:57 Sprocket Muppet
22:51 Skidmark
22:49 Frank G
22:47 Skidmark
22:38 Skidmark
22:34 Frank G
22:34 retired LEO
22:28 borgboy
22:25 borgboy
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22:22 Procopius2k
22:03 Halliburton - Mysterious Conspiracy Division
22:01 Barbara Skolaut
21:54 Barbara Skolaut
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