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2004-08-30 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by tipper 2004-08-30 3:04:50 AM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Why intentionally allow a tumor?

These people have made it abundantly clear they have no intention of integrating into society. Who needs this obvious time bomb of grief and stupidity? They'll be pointing their loudspeakers outward for prayer call before you know it - driving those on the fringe away... and the tumor enlarges at the host's expense, killing off the surrounding tissue of society.

I think this fucker's malignant, too.

Integrate or fuck off. And that goes for everyone.

Posted by .com 2004-08-30 3:21:43 AM|| 2004-08-30 3:21:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Why intentionally allow a tumor?
Because in the course of our government's brainwashing about Islam is the religion of peace and how tolerance is oh-so wonderful and America is nation of immigrants, we have ended up with many people, most notably our brain dead politicians, who are scared to use their common sense and have the courage to say "no" on behalf of the majority of their constituents. It doesn't help the situation to have the out-of-control ACLU standing in the offing threatening to sue if Islam doesn't get 150% of its requests met.

Why do we have soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan taking our values there while back at the ranch we are allowing Muslims to change our nation to look more like the ME? This Little Rock thingie is the matching slap in the face to the Muslim call to prayer being approved in Michigan. There's also the kick in the pants by our Justice Department fighting on behalf of Muslims being able to wear headscarfs to taxpayer supported public schools[Oklahoma case March 2003] And if you think Sharia Law is not coming to your neighborhood soon, you are kidding yourself.

Posted by rex 2004-08-30 4:19:21 AM|| 2004-08-30 4:19:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Easy, rex. You sure think on a grand scale. Look, I've handled clowns like these before, several times on behalf of my grandparents. This is 8 or 10 people on a Planning Commission and, on followup if there's a real problem, maybe a dozen or so City Council members. The ACLU would be hard-pressed to make a case for this exclusionary BS - being against would be a snap, but as you say - that wouldn't be their trip on this issue. They'll prolly sit this out.

Anyway, this is a small group making a grab and a bunch of twitters who can be bought and sold like Girl Scout cookies deciding. The citizenry just needs to make it crystal clear to the elected people who live just down the block what they want in their city - and it is their city. "Naw, I don't really like this, Bill. You wanna be on my championship bowling team this year, huh? Well deep-six this turkey. Oh, and you can bring back, my Goddamned hedge clippers, too, if you fuck around on this. You cross me, man, and Marge will yank the chain on Peggy's PTA Board seat, too. You'll get to take that cute little name plaque home with you when you get whipped next fall, to boot. We clear?"

So chill, rex. Save your global screech for something worthy - this is small potatoes in one-off mode. It's when it's repeated all over the country that it becomes cancer. It's not happening this way, commonly, that's the old method: quietly and slowly buy out a run down neighborhood. That was my point: stop this approach dead in its tracks. Here. Now. Word will get around.

BTW, I won't get drawn into some lameass endless debate, either. You don't know dick about local politics, it appears. I do. Be cool and focus on something worth 100 posts.

Posted by .com 2004-08-30 4:47:02 AM|| 2004-08-30 4:47:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 What's the point guys, a little mosque makes you nervous?

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 7:05:34 AM|| 2004-08-30 7:05:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Don't worry your pointy little head, Murat. Apparently, given your posted ejecta, it's over your head. Have a nice lie-down, K?

Posted by .com 2004-08-30 7:11:12 AM|| 2004-08-30 7:11:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Shiver shiver for the MIB (man in black) comming to get you.

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 7:46:23 AM|| 2004-08-30 7:46:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Did you read the article, Murat?

This particular Muslim group wants official permission to build a religious ghetto. That is illegal in this country, in the same way that its illegal to refuse to sell/rent your property to people of another race. Mosques are a different issue altogether, and generally not a problem as far as I know, unless they insist on broadcasting the call to prayer, which gets into noise control ordinances.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-30 7:50:48 AM|| 2004-08-30 7:50:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 I'd think Arkansas residents would know how to handle a sharia ghetto if the Council buckles.

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 8:06:21 AM|| 2004-08-30 8:06:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Did you read the article, Murat?

Why would he let facts get in the way of his bigotry?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-30 8:14:10 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-08-30 8:14:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Oh c'mon Trailing wife,

A ghetto of 20 houses, is that what all the rumpus is about?

We have whole neighbourhoods and construction sites for Christians and Jews in Istanbul, no one is even bothering there about and you make a tumult over 20 houses, fearing religious ghetto's, you guys sound neurotic!

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 8:38:23 AM|| 2004-08-30 8:38:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 thatn nice. you are kep you religious ghettos okay. we arent want em here. ifn religious ghettoes okay with you that fine but kep em in turkey.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-08-30 8:42:20 AM|| [http://www.meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-30 8:42:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 hmmm was it the Christian and Jew enclaves that spurred your Istanbul bombings?

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 9:23:28 AM|| 2004-08-30 9:23:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I'd rather think a fool called Bush was the main reason that spurred and a bunch of maniacle terrorists who did it.

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 9:28:01 AM|| 2004-08-30 9:28:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 you mean because Turkey was such a servile tool of the Bushitler war machine? I seem to remember it differently. Rewriting history, again, huh? How about home-grown muslim killers? Doesn't that describe them better?

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 9:36:27 AM|| 2004-08-30 9:36:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Franky AlQaeda happen to be a CIA product, remember. With to much hormones applied it exploded in your hands, experiment failed.

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 9:40:31 AM|| 2004-08-30 9:40:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 So, Murat, are you ever going to produce the "proof" you have of my identity? Or are you too much of a coward and liar?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-30 9:43:51 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-08-30 9:43:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 that in what happen when you are not get lay enuff!

Posted by murat4doo 2004-08-30 9:44:28 AM|| [http://www.meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2004-08-30 9:44:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I don't see where you two really disagree, .com and rex, other than the degree to which we should be alarmed. What's the deal?

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-30 10:03:27 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:03:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 question, why are 100.000 good guys protesting that pimp?

Posted by Murat 2004-08-30 10:07:10 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:07:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 you can have the 100,000, Rat, like you, they are antiAmerican

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 10:12:48 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:12:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Murat asks: "why are 100,000 good guys protesting that pimp?"

#1: There weren't that many and they certainly weren't "good." The organizers of the protest claimed "hudreds of thousands", then 400,000, then 200,000, then 100,000. Wishful, but erroneous thinking on their part. Of course, as communist/democrat-socialist/gay/lesbian protestors, they know that many people will only check into the news briefly, and walk away with the "400,000" number and believe it. That was their agenda from the start (just like the planned-in-advance "coffin" march and the setting of floats on fire--all designed for photo ops and to give the illusion that public support is larger than it is).

#2 Bush said the war on terrorism, âis a long-lasting ideological struggleâ and that âit ought to be called the struggle of a totalitarian point of view that uses terror as a tool to intimidate the free." They were there in NYC because they are totalitarian in their political ideologies. Check the groups represented, and you'll see. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance--the totalitarians want to take over this country. That's no secret, Murat.

Problems with the Islamic housing/mosque enclave being developed in AK. This is but one arm of the jihad, aimed at proselytizing America and gaining a physical presence under the protection of US laws. Why do they want to be around the mosque and have their own school? Why not move into the community as part of the community? Because mosques are, basically, defensible military "installations." Don't kid yourselves. The Islamofascists (Islamic Totalitarians) have clear-cut plans to bring about a world-wide Islamic State.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-08-30 10:36:42 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:36:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 These Muslim community developers push this too far and they are going to awaken a sleeping giant: old fashioned posses. Arkansans are for the most part gracious and accepting, but they sure won't smile and bend over if the character of their town or the freedoms of its citizens starts to decline.

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-30 10:51:01 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:51:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 "What we want is to have a clean community. In other words we want a community free of alcohol, drugs, and free of gangs... of bad behavior."

And when the real world refuses to be shut out, these guys will do what all muslims/non-pacifist utopians eventually do. They will barricade themselves in there with guns and will shoot anyone who tries to come in there.

I give it 20 years tops before the govt will be forced to go in there at the cost of many lives.

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 10:58:52 AM|| 2004-08-30 10:58:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 They ought to do as the other religious groups that want to shut out the normal world do and move to some very rural area. I'm thinking of the Catholics, Amish and Hutterites. Nobody minds if they create their own religious communes in the middle of nowhere as long as they don't bother anybody else.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-30 11:06:34 AM|| 2004-08-30 11:06:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 I don't think this is really Murat. Not with words like: rumpus, tumult, neurotic, spurred.

Posted by Tom 2004-08-30 11:27:29 AM|| 2004-08-30 11:27:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 What is the peaceful solution to this problem of islamic ghettos in the US?

I gotta idea that I think might work.

It is illegal anywhere in this country to bar a person from buying property in any neighborhood they wish. So in cases like the one in question, we need to take the initiative and be certain that a good portion of those houses are bought by people who are Christian, gay, Hindu etc.

The same goes for Dearbornistan and Detroitistan. We need in a big way to go on a mission to resettle these areas before there are major problems with these communities insisting on Sharia law for their areas.

Its gonna happen so we need to hurry.

I figure that if all the groups who stand the most to lose from the establishment of Islamic communities, towns and cities were to get together and do something like this then we could insure that no area becomes muslim dominated.

Just think of this. Want to avoid the specter of an Islamist congressional or senatorial candidate or voting block etc? Want to avoid the chance that anyone who would advocate altering the Constitution to allow for Sharia law etc? Then Christians, Hindus, Bhuddists, Jews, Atheists, and Gays need to move to Muslim communities and break them up now.

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 11:28:17 AM|| 2004-08-30 11:28:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 And there it is folks....the AQ is a CIA boogie-man. Murat proving once and for all he's not just a troll, but an idiot as well.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-30 11:51:47 AM|| 2004-08-30 11:51:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 Ms Davis,

Yes that would be fine and for people who just want to be left alone that is usually what they do.

The problem is that muslims have no intention of living apart and minding their own business. They want to establish dominance smack in the middle of our towns and cities. They deliberately want to fill our schools with little girls wearing headscarves. This is because their ultimate goal is to force our public institutions to accomodate them which is only the first step to undermining our secular tradition.

The difference between the Amish and muslims is that the Amish aren't under any religious obligation to convert the whole world to their practices. They are Anabaptists whose first principle is the right of all to follow their own religious conscience and live accordingly. They paid a heavy price for that in Europe and they have never given any major problems to anyone who doesn't want to live like they do in this country.

On the other hand, muslims are obligated to make islam the highest law over all the world. All groups must be made to live under islamic law even if they are allowed to continue to practice a strictly limited form of their own religion. In islamic theology ultimately everyone must live under the dominance of islam.

They don't just want to be left alone. They want to establish all islamic areas where they can not only dictate local law in accordance with sharia but also to elect representatives who will in the long run eventually vote for constitutional changes which will at the least divide our nation like Nigeria is currently divided. In the worst case scenario, muslims will become a majority in this country and willl vote to overturn the constitution entirely.

IF you think that this can't happen then just check out our birth rate compared to theirs. Also check out how quickly they have become an almost majority in Dearborn and Detroit. Also check out how many muslim families are buying motels in small toens across the nation. They will establish mosques in every hamlet before long and from there will demand that the govt make them the exception to the laws that the rest of us live under.

I believe that we can stop this scenario if we are smart without having to turn to posses, pogroms or oppression. If we are really interested in protecting the rights of all
We need to draw a line now and resolutely defend it within the rule of our laws.

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 11:54:24 AM|| 2004-08-30 11:54:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 Excellent points, peggy.

About your last point..."I believe that we can stop this scenario if we are smart without having to turn to posses, pogroms or oppression"...

only if our people are willing to do unpopular things like speak out publicly about what's dangerous with Islam, how the Muslim community must adapt itself for successful integration with the other American communities (and that would include obeying the laws of equal rights-no discrimination based on religion, skin color, sex), swearing allegiance to the laws of this land over the laws of Islam, denunciation from their religious leaders of honor killings, appeasement of murderers, silence about terrorism, genital mutilation, polygamy, etc. Many fellow citizens are afraid of being called "racist" or "bigot" simply by naming antisocial behaviors all too common in the Islamic world today. If our citizens are too timid to confront the ills of Islam's soul, then Islam will come out the winner.

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-30 12:13:21 PM|| 2004-08-30 12:13:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Yes, jules. This is our country and we have a right to demand that they bend to our expectations and not the other way around. we just need to be brave enough to do it. We must insist that they oblige us by respecting secularism without any blurring of the lines. With some imagination and guts, qualities for which we are rightly renowned, we can ensure that the lines stay clear and invoilate.

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 12:29:42 PM|| 2004-08-30 12:29:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Want to avoid the specter of an Islamist congressional or senatorial candidate or voting block?

Too late, Peggy - see: McKinney, Cynthia

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 12:41:42 PM|| 2004-08-30 12:41:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 What is the deal with her anyway. Does she have a large muslim constituancy or is she just sucking up all on her own?

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 12:43:49 PM|| 2004-08-30 12:43:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 whoring contribution $ from Arab sympathizers and money launderers for terror groups. Her constituency is majority black

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 12:47:52 PM|| 2004-08-30 12:47:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 #33 Frank: You're so right. Prince of Soddy sent Mayor Guiliani a check for a couple thousand if he'd not blame Muslims for 9/11. Guiliani immediately returned the check and McKinney got in line for it. Downhill ever since then. Her constituency is by far majority black, but big parts of the district are becoming more middle class/upper mid class. Will be interesting to watch what happens here in Atlanta in the next few elections. Basically, she's a crackpot who'll take money from anyone (whether or not they actually have any population in her district).

Posted by BA 2004-08-30 1:26:54 PM|| 2004-08-30 1:26:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I believe that we can stop this scenario if we are smart without having to turn to posses, pogroms or oppression.
Who recommended "posses,pogroms, or oppression?"

If we are really interested in protecting the rights of all. We need to draw a line now and resolutely defend it within the rule of our laws
Here's the problem: the rights of all are not being protected because the minority sectors of society have figured out how to redefine the intent of the framers - they abuse rule of law to allow tyranny of the minority, or another way of phrasing it is to have the tail wagging the dog. Also the PC thinking that is so prevelent now adays has stamped out common sense. This is a prime example. This is Little Rock, Arkansas-whose past history had the ugly spectre of segregation. Now after all this years of putting the past behind them, the residents are having segregation shoved down their throats but cloaked as a good thing by their city fathers. Where's the common sense?

Easy, rex. You sure think on a grand scale.
Grand scale??? I just quoted you examples of events that have already taken place in America. And Sharia Law is approved in the country next door that for all intents in purposes is like a mirror image of ourselves. Hpow often have we heard it said that Canada is our unofficial 51st state? Is the Supreme Court not taking into consideration international case law as we speak for their decisions? You don't think Sharia Law's next stop will be the USA? What's so grand about that prediction?

BTW, I won't get drawn into some lameass endless debate, either. You don't know dick about local politics, it appears. I do.
Wrong. In one of my prior jobs I was responsible for delivering services to a municipal jurisdiction of 100,000 citizens. I interfaced with local politicians and voters and silly servants 24/7. So, I'd say I have 10X more experience than you dealing with "local politics" and "local politicians", thank you very much.
As for lameass posts, what are you referring to specifically?

I don't see where you two really disagree, .com and rex, other than the degree to which we should be alarmed. What's the deal?
Thank you, #18. It would appear that .com has some "inner angst" he needed to find an opportunity, albeit in an odd way, to unload.

Posted by rex 2004-08-30 2:07:49 PM|| 2004-08-30 2:07:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 rex,

Nobody recommended that here.

I mentioned it because I see it as an inevitable outcome if we follow an accomodationist strategy in America per islam sole dictation. The reason why is that that path will inevitably lead us to an islamic state within our own. Once it becomes a real possibility, then a backlash will inevitably follow as it has in Nigeria where it is likely to get even worse unless the Christians in that country simply roll over and hand over their whole country to the islamists.

I'm not sure that many people are aware of this but muslims in the Christian majority south are now also demanding that sharia be implemented for them too. That is only the beginning of what they intend. If they are refused, they will start to rebel. If they are accomdated sharia will spread as their numbers increase. Once it starts, it doesn't stop until islam wins and everybody else becomes a dhimmi with restricted freedom in deference to islamic sensibilities.

I want to avoid the kind of scenario where things start getting ugly. Things get ugly when the majority feels it has a good reason to feel threated by a minority. In most cases there is no need to be threatened by a minority, but in this case, with muslim birth rates and their practice of immigrating in overwhelming numbers to an area until it is dominated by them, plus their inability to see any value in secularism, plus it being their religious duty to bring the whole world under islamic law and you have a recipe for a hell of a backlash someday if we don't act now.

I realize that this is very long term thinking, but this specter of a time when both sides would suffer heavy loss of life is something that I would rather avoid. We avoid it by starting sooner rather than later.

I believe that ethical creative thinking on the private level undertaken by individual citizens simply acting on their rights and priveleges as citizens can have a very positive outcome. #1 is break up the islamic ghettos in Michigan and elsewhere by people choosing to live and vote in these areas who are opposed to islam spilling into areas where it ought not to be. #2 would be to find private and technological ways of solving the problems they have with their religious duties and obligations colliding with the spirit of strict secularism in our public institutions and in public areas.

I think we could nip the problem in the bud before there ever is any trouble and that both groups can live happily in a situation of true mutual respect where neither side is required to roll over and play the beyatch to the other.

Posted by peggy 2004-08-30 2:56:08 PM|| 2004-08-30 2:56:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 This is why islam can't be considered a religion. It's a political movement.

Murat, your "What's the point guys, a little mosque makes you nervous?"

Yep! Don't want to be like other countries that have been infected. Sorry but that's my thinking.

I don't trust the islamic political thought. I find it a foul thing. And so do you. You do find islamic theocracy a bummer, right?

You know what else. I don't like Mexican feudelism/payolla either. I don't like Canadien sociliaism also.

Posted by Lucky 2004-08-30 3:35:15 PM|| 2004-08-30 3:35:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Guys, I live in Dearborn Heights. Dearborn and Detroit are not -stans--that would be Turkish anyway. We've got some of everybody, just like anyplace else--Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Latin American, East European, and native born of every possible description, particularly Italian and Polish with attendant groceries and restaurants. Ten minutes from here there's a big Jewish community, and ten more a new Holocaust museum. Detroit hosts a large Hindu temple. I saw a Buddhist monk at the zoo. Gays are indeed to be found, as for that matter are feminists: me, for one, and a Muslim friend of mine for another. I've never heard the call to prayer in my life, the Iraqi Shia center up the street is next door to a Catholic seminary, and everybody gets along. Madonnas in some front yards, Hajj posters on some doors. Quite a few flags. No dress codes, no plotting, no grumbling, no dirty looks. If you lived here, you'd worry less.

Posted by Linda 2004-08-30 8:47:34 PM|| 2004-08-30 8:47:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Linda that's good to hear, thx

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 9:06:40 PM|| 2004-08-30 9:06:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Trying to turn off peggy's italics tag...

Linda - That sounds so wonderful! Ahem. But that is not what's being proposed by the Muslims in the article, is it? That's the point - they're trying to create an exclusive Muslim community. I hope, for your sake, that the war between the Islamists and Freedom doesn't reach the bloody in-your-face level in the US. I believe it's clear, after watching news coverage and reading extensively about the demonstrations in your area against US efforts to free Iraq, that you will definitely see another side of Islam if violence comes. Perhaps that day can be postponed indefinitely - I have friends in your area, as well, and they don't paint such a rosy picture. I'll assume the norm is between yours and theirs. Good Luck!

Posted by .com 2004-08-30 9:08:44 PM|| 2004-08-30 9:08:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 sounds like we need to dust off the '50s/'60s suits against laws that banned Jooooos in country clubs. I'm sure the ACLU would join in that effort, right?

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-30 9:11:13 PM|| 2004-08-30 9:11:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 #40
I think I screwed up a previous attempt to post, so apologies for my indifferent computer literacy.
Anyway, here goes.

I don't claim to know a thing about Little Rock. I don't wear glasses of any kind. I'm familiar with Memri, read LGF daily, and have the common sense horror reaction to blatant, bloody-minded delusional psychosis. I accept that a lot of bad guys want me dead and most cordially hate them back. I'd be interested in the opinions of your acquaintance in my area. Maybe I'm missing something. But in the last ten or fifteen years I haven't had the sense that any of the neighbors hate my guts for religious or ideological reasons. I wasn't aware of antiwar protests around here, though I did see parts of the celebratory marches on April 9 2003 and the following December when we caught Saddam. The only political discussions I've had were civil: one with a Pakistani my age who thought that the idea of a President leaving office after a lost election was, if somewhat novel, cool; and another with an Egyptian that went about the way you'd expect debate between a forty-something independent and a college kid to go.
Maybe I'm just tired of people bashing the Dearborn area, haunted by some vision of a sharia-thumping, kufr-hating fifth column breeding babies and bad intentions double-four time as carelessly tossed off by media types that,perhaps not coincidentally, can only see a quagmire in Iraq. Normal folks make boring news. My neighbors--those I know, at any rate--are nice people, easy to make friends with, quick and insistent with invitations to chats that work out to last for an hour or two, determined that you will indeed try their cooking, gracious about any gift offered for Eid, Easter, or Christmas, and punctilious about making a return at the earliest appropriate opportunity. I haven't heard the call to prayer, but I have heard Jingle Bells in Arabic in a restaurant with a 50% Muslim clientele. And for what it's worth, it was way more fun to visit the Shia House of Wisdom garage sale in a miniskirt than it was to walk the diag in Ann Arbor when the DNC was out. So maybe something between the jihadi and the grandma gene is an accurate picture. Just wanted to offer a reminder that IIRC even Kipling thought East could meet West on a personal level.

Posted by Linda 2004-08-30 11:31:33 PM|| 2004-08-30 11:31:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Nice post Linda. Lets hope that the glow of freedom can keep the worst elements at bay. I'm not so sure these days anymore.

Posted by Lucky 2004-08-31 12:51:57 AM|| 2004-08-31 12:51:57 AM|| Front Page Top

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