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2004-08-25 Home Front: Politix

Letter from pro-Bush Veterans - "Yoy Can't Have It Both Ways"

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Posted by BigEd 2004-08-25 4:40:45 PM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Here is a link to the Ginsberg letter and the Kerry repsonse.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-25 5:02:57 PM|| 2004-08-25 5:02:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Duncan's my Rep and a standup guy

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-25 5:26:53 PM|| 2004-08-25 5:26:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Interesting how the liberal media won't cover this, whereas the tiniest hint of a negative rumor about GWB will get splattered on the front page.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-25 5:35:51 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-25 5:35:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Here is the ABC News coverage of it.

He tried to deliver it to a Secret Service agent or State Trooper. Somehow I dont think either is authorized to receive mail on the president's behalf.

However it seems that someone tried to 'accept' the letter but Cleland refused to give it up... (Did he ever intend to?):

A Texas state official and Vietnam veteran, Jerry Patterson, said someone from the Bush campaign contacted him Wednesday morning and asked him if he would travel to the ranch, welcome Cleland to Texas and accept the former senator's letter to Bush.

"I tried to accept that letter and he would not give it to me," said Patterson. "He would not face me. He kept rolling away from me. He's quite mobile."

Patterson, who spoke with the president on the phone, said the campaign asked him to give Cleland a letter for Kerry written by the Bush campaign and signed by Patterson and seven other veterans.

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-08-25 6:04:18 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:04:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 It's ShowBiz! Politics. Gutless disingenuous asinine street theater. In other words, perfectly normal Dhimmicrat SOP.

Posted by .com 2004-08-25 6:08:09 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:08:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Kerry: "Bring it on! I say, BRING! IT! ON! Go ahead, you bastards, I'll show you just how loud I can whine!!! You'll be sorry, I'LL SEND MAX CLELAND AND HIS WHEELCHAIR TO CRAWFORD TO LOOK PITIFUL ON NATIONAL TV!!!!!"

Oh, Christ in Heaven, deliver us from this idiot. Please?

Posted by Dave D. 2004-08-25 6:18:18 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:18:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Yes Mary-Beth there is a 'Web' of connection between the Swiftees and registered Republicans. Does that men that they are not telling the truth? WAAAH WAAAAHH!

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-08-25 6:18:59 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:18:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Grrrrr. And I'm fed up with the Cleland hero sham - that he is beyond challenge, somehow. *TFBS. This Skeery, Cleland, Harkin, et al crap has, by their endless repetition, diluted and diminished true heroism in the eyes of the uninitiated. They don't even have a clue what it means.

Check the Links I put in my comment on this RB article for the lowdown on Cleland, the Dhimmicrat hero.

Serving your country is honorable. Cleleand acted, way the fuck back 35 yrs ago, honorably. That does not an entire life make. He's failed miserably since.

Acting heroically, such as Gen. Brady did defines true heroism.

As for the Dhimmicrats, hey morons get a grip: blowing yourself up because you're dumber than a box o' rocks is not heroism.

*TFBS - Total Fucking Bull Shit

Posted by .com 2004-08-25 6:20:49 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:20:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Can someone point me to evidence that Cleland wounds were self inflicted by playing with a grenade? I have heard this but never seen it form a source thats beyond question.

I never served in the mil. I have a physical condition that precluded my induction. I usually don't comment on issues like this as I don't feel I have a right to comment on thing I didn't take part in. But if this fool blew his own legs off it's an issue thats valid to bring up. Just like Kerry's claims of being a freeking hero.

If I compare Kerry to guys like Gunny Hathcock it's obvious who the real heros are.

Posted by Trolling for Allan 2004-08-25 6:44:28 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:44:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 TforA - the second Coulter column identifies sources.

Posted by .com 2004-08-25 6:47:16 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:47:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I reserve the term "war hero" for people who acted honorably and courageously back then, and continued to act honorably and courageously after they came home, and refrain from bragging about it.

Some two and a half million men (and women, too, don't forget them) served in Vietnam, nearly all of whom spent either a year or thirteen months there-- three times as long as John Kerry did. Of those two and a half million, some 58,000 died for their country; and many, many more came home disabled or disfigured. And hundreds of thousands of them endured dangers and hardships at least the equal of what John Kerry so briefly faced.

If John Kerry really wants us to believe he's the "Ultimate Vietnam War Hero" then we should let America's Vietnam War veterans decide the presidential election.

He wouldn't carry a single state.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-08-25 6:48:31 PM|| 2004-08-25 6:48:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Randy "Duke" Cunningham's my rep. Damn good work Randy.

Cleland's story is this. Him and his boys were done with the days work in the field and were mounting onto a helicopter to head off for some beers. Some additional work had to be done so Max jumped off the helicopter to do it. That's when he noticed an American grenade on the ground. He thought it might be his, it turns out it was a new guy in the Helicopter. Anyway the pin was pulled and the Huey would have been thrashed (I'm not sure about the guys inside or what).

Max either picked up the grenade or fell on it, or tried to pick it up when it went off taking his legs and one arm (I think). Anne Coulter wrote a bit about all this highlighting the going to get beers side of things. I think she did him an injustice. Of all the research I did on the thing (sure he was a clown) proved he really was a hero and deserved every medal they gave him.

Having said that, I don't think he's an upstanding fellow now, playing the victim and saying losing his Senate seat was worse than losing his arm and legs. Or claiming the Republicans challenged his patriotism when they simply challenged his voting record. He's turned into a partisan shill.

Posted by Yank 2004-08-25 6:56:17 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 6:56:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Here's a partial look at the tangled weave of Democrat Party and lefty 527s:

from BlogsForBush

Posted by eLarson 2004-08-25 7:05:44 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 7:05:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Yank, here's the story on Max from AC's 2/18/04 column that Dotcom cited:

One of the most detailed accounts of Cleland's life was written by Jill Zuckman in a lengthy piece for The Boston Globe Sunday magazine on Aug. 3, 1997:

Finally, the battle at Khe Sanh was over. Cleland, 25 years old, and two members of his team were now ordered to set up a radio relay station at the division assembly area, 15 miles away. The three gathered antennas, radios and a generator and made the 15-minute helicopter trip east. After unloading the equipment, Cleland climbed back into the helicopter for the ride back. But at the last minute, he decided to stay and have a beer with some friends. As the helicopter was lifting off, he shouted to the pilot that he was staying behind and jumped several feet to the ground.

Cleland hunched over to avoid the whirring blades and ran. Turning to face the helicopter, he caught sight of a grenade on the ground where the chopper had perched. It must be mine, he thought, moving toward it. He reached for it with his right arm just as it exploded, slamming him back and irreparably altering his plans for a bright, shining future.

So, you see, the way Cleland got hurt was pretty human--and dare I suggest that he had more than "a beer" which impaired his judgement?--but hardly heroic.

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-25 7:06:03 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-25 7:06:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Yank - Regards an "injustice" I guess I'll offer that I disagree - but defend your right to hold a differing opinion!

IMHO, the press stories (numerous) cited in the 2nd Coulter link does not support your conclusions. Honor him for his service, yep. Pity him for his wounds, okay. War hero? Nope - not me. I knew lots of guys who got mangled (a little and a lot) - in everything from bar fights to Russian roulette to pissing off Saigon Mamasans who carried sharp things to bona-fide fire-fights. Nobody there thought of a mistake as heroism.

If you folks haven't read both Coulter columns, you should - to maintain perspective when Cleland comes up.

Just my $0.02.

Posted by .com 2004-08-25 7:07:48 PM|| 2004-08-25 7:07:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Cleland was just on Spitball with Matthews. Cleland blames Bush for riling up all Nam Vets now by inserting the Swift Vets in the campaign.
Looks like the pscyhological disorder of projection to blame others for your own misdeeds is indeed well.
These guys just can't get it into their heads that possibly this is being done for some other reason than electing George Bush. To me it is a duty that needs to be done now. Hanoi John needs to be exposed for what he is a fraud and traitor to his country for all time.
The Jackass party instead of unitng the country is doing the opposite and playing on the polarizations already in place and now feeding the coal mine fire of Nam again.

Posted by Bill Nelson 2004-08-25 7:27:11 PM|| 2004-08-25 7:27:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Bill, When has the Democrats done anything else but play the 'race' card or the 'class' card 'Gay' card or 'whatever' card?

Pathetic!

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-08-25 7:33:32 PM|| 2004-08-25 7:33:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Well to quote Coulter, don 't read if you are humor challenged as I suspect most memebers of the Jackass party are "...Why don't we just give both sides some swiftboats, a few machine guns and lots of ammo, put them on a river somewhere, and let them settle this whole thing like gentlemen once and for all?"

Posted by Bill Nelson 2004-08-25 8:43:57 PM|| 2004-08-25 8:43:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Ann is so fabulous!
I love it, Bill!

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-25 8:46:23 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-25 8:46:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 The account in Coulter's second article, which quotes the same book quoted above isn't much different than the account I gave except that he jumped out of the helicopter to have the beers rather than doing one more thing before going back. I'll trust the other accounts since I was going off of memory.

The more I think about it, it sounds like the helicopter had to be a distance away or it would have been hit by the same explosion so the idea he picked it up to save anyone doesn't float.

Still, both versions have the accident before he drank a drop.

Also, it has come to light recently that one of the guys in the helicopter admitted the grenade was actually his. It was natural for Cleland to think it was his since he was the one jumping out but that doesn't really change anything else.

Stupid accident yes, but not cowardly and certainly not self-inflicted by playing with a grenade. His wounds qualify more as a friendly fire and/or stupid accident than anything else.

He's a prick but it has nothing to do with his service. I think he pretty much got screwed in Nam and hadn't rid on that fact until 2002. That's when he bacame a prick.

Posted by Yank 2004-08-25 10:55:53 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 10:55:53 PM|| Front Page Top

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