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2018-07-24 International-UN-NGOs
Most Germans think Europe can defend itself without US help: Poll
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Posted by trailing wife 2018-07-24 00:22|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ]  Top

#1 Good news, good news. More support for us to get the hell out of there. Close the bases and bring the troops home. Europeans can well afford to defend themselves.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2018-07-24 00:35||   2018-07-24 00:35|| Front Page Top

#2 I'd say move a good chunk of them to Poland and bring the rest back to be deployed somewhere on the US / Mexican border with shoot to kill orders.
Posted by Raj 2018-07-24 00:43||   2018-07-24 00:43|| Front Page Top

#3 I stopped after "Most Germans think".
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2018-07-24 00:44||   2018-07-24 00:44|| Front Page Top

#4 Can and will are two different things.
Posted by Lumpy Turkeyneck8453 2018-07-24 04:04||   2018-07-24 04:04|| Front Page Top

#5 not while spending 1% on defense.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2018-07-24 04:07||   2018-07-24 04:07|| Front Page Top

#6 Most other Europeans think they need the US to defend against Germany (again).
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2018-07-24 04:38||   2018-07-24 04:38|| Front Page Top

#7 Can definitely see Germany and Russia divvying up Europe again and with the same tragic consequences.
Posted by Lumpy Turkeyneck8453 2018-07-24 05:20||   2018-07-24 05:20|| Front Page Top

#8 Even more - 92 percent - said they suspected that Trump's motive for making the comments was primarily to promote the sale of U.S. liquefied gas in Europe and Germany.

We'd rather burn it at home. Better yet, ban the import of German cars and aircraft and they won't need so much Russian gas.
Posted by Lumpy Turkeyneck8453 2018-07-24 05:22||   2018-07-24 05:22|| Front Page Top

#9 We should make it clear to the people of Germany that in making this critical choice they understand that the people and nation of the USA will never pick up their pieces when they fuck it up again like they always do.
Posted by 3dc 2018-07-24 05:46||   2018-07-24 05:46|| Front Page Top

#10 Not to Poland, to the southern border. Why are we worried about thousands of miles away, when the first mile of our own territory is breached?

...quitting NATO makes sense in that scenario. But against whom might they be defending?

The Poles? I recall a Polish army reaching Vienna to deal with another Islamic invasion (BTW, seems the Bavarians and Austrians were in that one too dealing with the pillagers, looters and the like).
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-07-24 07:23||   2018-07-24 07:23|| Front Page Top

#11 Lessee... this would be the Bundeswehr? The German national army that had troops drilling with sticks a while back because they didn't have enough rifles? Of course, the sticks WERE painted black... that's gotta count for something.
Posted by Mercutio 2018-07-24 08:33||   2018-07-24 08:33|| Front Page Top

#12 yep - for all of 10 minutes
Posted by Rex Mundi 2018-07-24 10:12||   2018-07-24 10:12|| Front Page Top

#13 Can definitely see Germany and Russia divvying up Europe again and with the same tragic consequences.

German society is no longer in a conquering mindset — look at the current shortage of men and women willing to put on the uniform. Should the current invasion of Germany be successful, that will be a different story, but Russia would not be conniving to divide the continent with a caliphate. Russia would be allying with Poland and America to reconquer it.
Posted by trailing wife 2018-07-24 10:33||   2018-07-24 10:33|| Front Page Top

#14 so Jack... you seem to be 3 for 3...trying for a record? or your pantyfa merit badge?
Posted by Mercutio 2018-07-24 10:57||   2018-07-24 10:57|| Front Page Top

#15 It's a BS question. Defend itself against what exactly?
Posted by European Conservative 2018-07-24 12:41||   2018-07-24 12:41|| Front Page Top

#16 If what is not known then there is no reason for them to be in something like NATO because they obvious miss totally Mattis's point of: “be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
Posted by 3dc 2018-07-24 12:56||   2018-07-24 12:56|| Front Page Top

#17 See? Exactly. No enemies about. No enemies means you don't need a military. It's win-win for everyone!

USA out of NATO. Bring the troops home. Not to Poland, not to the Middle East. Home. Spend the savings on our own people, who badly need it.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2018-07-24 13:24||   2018-07-24 13:24|| Front Page Top

#18 I'm serious. Should we expect a Russian invasion of Poland, with a march to the Rhine? Highly unlikely. Which means that NATO needs to redefine itself. The Russian threat is slow destabilization of Europe, not an open attack. The weapons against this are not the same.

NATO is much more likely to be a fast and mean intervention force to counter threats wherever they may arise. Much more likely North Africa and the Middle East.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-07-24 13:35||   2018-07-24 13:35|| Front Page Top

#19 Threats in North Africa and the Middle East? What threats? Those aren't threats. Those are meddling opportunities.

NATO was formed to deal with Russia. Russia isn't a threat any more, get rid of NATO. End of story. Close the bases, bring the troops home, spend the money on ourselves instead. Why should we be paying for the defense of people who refuse to pay for themselves?

Oh, I get it. The Middle East and North Africa are threats to Europe, which need to be paid for by America. Yeah, fuck that noise. Pay for it yourselves, you ungrateful jerks.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2018-07-24 13:56||   2018-07-24 13:56|| Front Page Top

#20 Really. Then why did the US invoke Chapter 5 in 2001? Why are German troops in Afghanistan? Defending Germany?
Posted by European Conservative 2018-07-24 13:59||   2018-07-24 13:59|| Front Page Top

#21 If you let enemy #1 into your borders, give them big checks to live on and tolerate it when they rape your people defense; and by the bulk of your energy from enemy #2, it may be a bit too late anyway.

The real question is will we allow German refugees in when the time comes. I'm Kind of thinking if it gets to that, that they had their chance and Darwin selected them out.
Posted by rjschwarz 2018-07-24 15:17||   2018-07-24 15:17|| Front Page Top

#22 First of all, the German troops in Afghanistan have such restricted ROE as to be useless.

Second, we shouldn't be in Afghanistan at all. Trump tried to pull us out only to be blocked by the military industrial complex, which doesn't want their profitable war to stop.

Third, that's whataboutism that does not address the inexplicable American subsidies for wealthy First World nations.

Pay for your own defense. You can easily afford it.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2018-07-24 15:49||   2018-07-24 15:49|| Front Page Top

#23 #18 I'm serious. Should we expect a Russian invasion of Poland, with a march to the Rhine?

Ask Ukraine.
Posted by bbrewer126 2018-07-24 21:11||   2018-07-24 21:11|| Front Page Top

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