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2006-07-19 Europe

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Posted by Korora 2006-07-19 00:01|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Given the state of French conventional Army and the fact that most of it is busy patrolling the Paris metro against precisely those Muslim terrorists this guy loves so much, I were him I wouldn't be so eager to pick a fight against Israel.

Unless he wants to watch the Star of David flating on the Eiffel Tower.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-07-19 02:16|| 2006-07-19 02:16|| Front Page Top

#2 Given that Fwance has never won a war, perhaps we should encourage them to shoot higher and fight alongside NorK and Iran!

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 03:14|| 2006-07-19 03:14|| Front Page Top

#3
PART A

Letâs say that the relations between France and its
neighbors are not very good.
Letâs also say that the Belgium government
doesnât recognize Franceâs right to exist.
Letâs also say that every day, someone from
Belgium fires 5 rockets to the city of Lille,
and 70% of the Belgiums are happy about it,
and their government is doing nothing to stop it.
Now letâs assume that a group of people from Belgium crosses the border, attacks French troops, kills some of them and captures a French soldier and brings it back to Belgium.
What should France do?

PART B

In the mean time, there is a party in the Italian parliament that has its own army and does whatever it wants. The Italian government says or does nothing to this party.
Letâs say that in a certain morning this party decides to start bombing the French Riviera.
While doing that, they also penetrate the French-Italian border, attacks a border patrol, kills 3 French soldiers and captures another 2.
Again, in this case,
What should France do?

For those who are not familiar with the current events â this is the exact situation Israel is standing against these days, and only retaliates to them.
Would you negotiate for these soldiers knowing youâre legitimizing the next kidnappings? Will your government allow these attacks on its own land?

Hopefully, the saner voices will rise and the fighting will stop. The majority in Israel wants peace and is willing to give up land for it, but not without the insurance of the safety of the citizens. Would you?

Posted by dana 2006-07-19 04:21|| 2006-07-19 04:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Dana! Futures for white handkerchiefs in France just went through the roof! We can use this!

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 04:41|| 2006-07-19 04:41|| Front Page Top

#5
Given that Fwance has never won a war, perhaps we should encourage them to shoot higher and fight alongside NorK and Iran!

Except for taking Vienna, Berlin and Moscow plus forcing Georges Washington to surrender.

Could you, please, bash that idiot and even the present day French without insulting their (heroic) dead?

Thank you in advance.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-07-19 04:57|| 2006-07-19 04:57|| Front Page Top

#6 I don't consider losing to be insulting. I'm just hoping to take advantage of a losing streak! :-)

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 05:53|| 2006-07-19 05:53|| Front Page Top

#7 JFM - your country was instrumental in the success of our revolution. We thank you for that and hope your present day countrymen rise to their former wisdom and courage.

Posted by lotp 2006-07-19 06:03|| 2006-07-19 06:03|| Front Page Top

#8 The Dissident Frogman is a national treasure of France, even if too few realize it. Thanks so much for the post!

Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-19 06:24|| 2006-07-19 06:24|| Front Page Top

#9 "vacuum packed explosive devices" = FAE explosives. Translated literally.

Posted by gromky 2006-07-19 06:33|| 2006-07-19 06:33|| Front Page Top

#10 "#2 Given that Fwance has never won a war, perhaps we should encourage them to shoot higher and fight alongside NorK and Iran!"

Don't forget they won the Hundred Years War when England forfeited.

Posted by no mo uro 2006-07-19 07:01|| 2006-07-19 07:01|| Front Page Top

#11 Ah, that explains it! As I've said before, sorry if I've offended you or yours. Often my remarks are meant for American consumption and I don't have to explain the details of what I say. Yes, I know France has contributed its share of what I consider to be great assists, the American Revolution included, of course! :-) I and most other Americans think about it every Independence and Memorial day. Like most Americans, France siding so heavily with governments that dabble or marinate themselves in terrorism these days "irritates" me enough that I don't feel too much compuction about irritating back and hoping they slow down enough to figure it out somehow. That was what I was getting at when I mentioned Iran and NorK. Anyway, I don't want you to infer something that I never intended to imply about France's soldiers. The president who got us into the Vietnam war knew we would lose, but did it anyway. I'll never think badly of the soldiers who fought there because they fought in good faith thinking they were doing something good. But I do have serious problems with the US government choosing to fight that war, because it was never going to be won the way they chose to fight it. In this hopefully worst case I still think well of the soldiers. The same goes for any soldier anywhere in the world, France included. If you have opinions that run contrary to what seems to be the prevailing attitude there, then I'll even thank you for being so clear headed! If I'm thinking wrong, just let me know because I would rather see things right than trudge down the road thinking the wrong things. What is France's view on this war? How does her citizens feel? What are the demographics there that make up these opinions? Is France afraid of the muslim population there, or would her decisions be the same regardless?

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 07:02|| 2006-07-19 07:02|| Front Page Top

#12 Help! What on earth is a "vacuum packed explosive device"? What does FAE mean?

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 07:06|| 2006-07-19 07:06|| Front Page Top

#13 Fuel Air Explosive

This would be the one act that would make me react favorably to the commitment of US forces to the Levant.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-07-19 07:31|| 2006-07-19 07:31|| Front Page Top

#14 Too bad Monsieur Myard of the French Parliament couldn't have gotten as outraged against Hamas for seizing Gilad Shalit, who happens to have dual Israeli and French citizenship.....

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-07-19 08:15|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2006-07-19 08:15|| Front Page Top

#15 I am at times very, (overly?) sensitive. I am ashamed each time France sides with evil and opression.

Also I could understand governments fearing riots if they sided with Israel but thye could just shut up instead of siding with so repugnant movements as Hamas, PLO or Hezbollah. Also, in order to have immigrants integrating teh first step is making thm think that being French is better than being Arab, and ever siding with Arabs, hiding their crimes and infamies is exactly the wrong thing to do. 40 years of pro-Arab alignment and of telling them that French tortured peole during Algerian war (1) and not telling of FLN atrocities have succeeded in having people displaying Algerian flags at plays involving France national football team.

I am afraid however that France's attitude has less to do with fear of riots and more with raw lust for power from its elites and with positive hate towards America in most of them.

(1) FLN din't have qualms about massacring whole (native) villages or placing bombs in school busses. You have all proofs the guy is guilty. But you don't know where the next bomb is going to detonate. A number of French officers (often previously victims of German torture) thought it was better to torture than to let things happen.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-07-19 08:18|| 2006-07-19 08:18|| Front Page Top

#16 Dissident Frogman could make me laugh at my own mother's funeral.

Posted by Secret Master 2006-07-19 10:46|| 2006-07-19 10:46|| Front Page Top

#17 JFM, can you help us ? Where does the positive hate come from ?
Some thing that by saving France's bacon in the 1940s, we Americans are a constant reminder of their lack of capability. Therefore, the French hate America and all things American.

Posted by wxjames 2006-07-19 11:46|| 2006-07-19 11:46|| Front Page Top

#18 Shouldn't that graphic say "French Red Whine"?

It's been too long since I read DF's site. My bad!

Posted by Xbalanke 2006-07-19 11:55|| 2006-07-19 11:55|| Front Page Top

#19 Hmmmmmmmm...France vs. Israel? Who might I be putting money on?

Posted by tu3031 2006-07-19 12:00|| 2006-07-19 12:00|| Front Page Top

#20 Instead of thinking of us as Melting Pot Americans, think of us as rebellious Anglo Saxons who are even more obnoxious than our forebearers across the pond, which is what we are culturally.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-07-19 12:24|| 2006-07-19 12:24|| Front Page Top

#21 JFM: Looks like the start of an interesting thread! Lots of interesting stuff there. How about the attitude of French citizens? Do they agree with the government line because of propaganda? Do they actually understand things and don't agree with it? Do they actually understand things but still agree with it? :-) Who is more likely to agree/not agree with the government line?

I had never really considered the "power" thing. But I don't know that France is a big or populous enough nation to ever be a superpower. The EU could, but not one nation in the EU. One of those "united we stand" things again! :-)

Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 13:13|| 2006-07-19 13:13|| Front Page Top

#22 I'd pick one nit, gorb - the Monarchy of France helpd us out during our revolution, mostly because it was at war with the British crown at the time.

But to the best of my reccolection, the French Fifth Republic hasn't done squat except be a pain in the ass. To pretty much everybody.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2006-07-19 13:59|| 2006-07-19 13:59|| Front Page Top

#23 JFM, can you help us ? Where does the positive hate come from ?

wxjames, read this.

Also, y'all need to remember that France has a long statist streak (often masonic/socialist, same thing here unlike traditional anglosaxon FM dubbed conservative), despite being home of Tocqueville or Bastiat, and that the current "french model" our Enlightened Elites/ruling oligarchy is defending was born in 1945, from the marriage between gaullism (rightwing statism) and communism (and french communism was a particular vicious one, ideologically speaking, the french commies teached Ho chi minh and Pol Pot, literally).

And the Vth is the reign of the technocracy...

De Gaulle really was a disaster for France, with hindsight, jacketed us with a structurally socialist model, set up the "french Arab Policy", and delivered Algeria to the national-islmaists of the fln, the true start of all that, for all the wrong reasons. Shiraq is his true heir.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-19 14:32|| 2006-07-19 14:32|| Front Page Top

#24 Btw, Myard is a gaullist, and a "sovereignty type" (souverainiste), he's considered rightwing (he's a somewhat frequent guest at the "oeucumenical" conservative/rightwing radio Radio-Courtoisie), and he's probably soemwhat free-market oriented (he was invited by a corresponding show host, IIRC).
He became known in 2005 when he attacked a racist rapper who compared France to a "slut one had to f*ck into exhaustion", has made non-idiotarian comments about the riots, etc, etc...

Still, when he's invited at RC, listeners recall he's still in shiraq's party, yet he talks like he was in the opposotion... clearly, his actions don't follow his words.

And he's also a french "Arab Policy" guy.

there is worse in that popular french political niche (sovereignty, gallic model vs anglosaxon model,...), I think for example of Paul-Marie Couteaux, a De Villiers follower who suggested "giving the atom bomb to the arabs", to counterbalance Israel's, and give a counterweight to the US influence in the region. No comments.

That's why I have so much difficulties finding a pol I'm confortable here. Except for a few very minor (but worthy) persons like Claude Reichman or Bruno Megret (this one is real rightwing), I'm stuck with "better than nothing alternatives", like De Villiers or pépé Le Pen, whom I like, but whose politics I do not trust.
Bummer.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-19 14:57|| 2006-07-19 14:57|| Front Page Top

#25 mojo

France sided with the US during the Cuban missile crisis. In fact it was first country to do it. But that was before De Gaulle became senile.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-07-19 14:57|| 2006-07-19 14:57|| Front Page Top

#26 #20 :- more obnoxious than us?!

Nooo chance, we can turn a beautiful fishing village in Spain into a den of fish-n-chips and warm beer virtually overnight Nimble me old mucker. And to cap it all, we have ... 'The Birdie Song'

Fear us...

Posted by Tony (UK) 2006-07-19 15:05|| 2006-07-19 15:05|| Front Page Top

#27 Haven't been on the Small World ride at Disneyland yet, Tony?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-07-19 15:11|| 2006-07-19 15:11|| Front Page Top

#28 Errr, no...

Posted by Tony (UK) 2006-07-19 15:13|| 2006-07-19 15:13|| Front Page Top

#29 #28 Tony - re #27: Fear us. ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2006-07-19 16:38|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html] 2006-07-19 16:38|| Front Page Top

#30 I'd pick one nit, gorb - the Monarchy of France helpd us out during our revolution, mostly because it was at war with the British crown at the time.

It entered the war at a great risk to France and it damn near bankrupted them. We didn't pay them back either.

Posted by 6 2006-07-19 16:47|| 2006-07-19 16:47|| Front Page Top

#31 6, that's not quite true. We did repay almost all the undisputed portion of the principal debt though not interst on late payments. As part of the edd of the war with France in the late 1790's and the Louisiana Purchase, the remaining disputes were settled.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-07-19 17:08|| 2006-07-19 17:08|| Front Page Top

#32 --We didn't pay them back either.---

Article. VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

-----

They're still pissy they didn't have much influence w/us after the Revolution. Some in Congress were promoting that - like they'd be our patron.

Posted by anonymous2u 2006-07-19 17:35|| 2006-07-19 17:35|| Front Page Top

#33 And then there was their interfering in the Civil War.

1 battle did take place off france's coast.....

Posted by anonymous2u 2006-07-19 17:36|| 2006-07-19 17:36|| Front Page Top

#34 I can highly recommend the book JFM suggested. It made a lot of things said to me when we lived over there sensible, because the discussions at the time most certainly weren't.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-19 18:06|| 2006-07-19 18:06|| Front Page Top

#35 We did repay almost all the undisputed portion
I belive the privy purse loans prior to the treaty are part of the disputed portion. That's a fair chunk of change. Otherwise I do stand corrected.

Posted by 6 2006-07-19 18:38|| 2006-07-19 18:38|| Front Page Top

#36 Wxjames said

JFM can you help us? Where does the positive hate come from ?

I have written a long answer but I want to clean it. I will post it Saturday morning as an opinion piece.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-07-19 19:00|| 2006-07-19 19:00|| Front Page Top

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