Article

2004-07-16 Iraq-Jordan

Iraqi PM executed six insurgents: witnesses

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-07-16 12:48|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 And if so, a job well done!

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2004-07-16 12:52:26 PM|| 2004-07-16 12:52:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 doesnt make sense to me, and its based on anonymous witnesses, talking to a reporter for an Aussie paper thats been hostile to the Iraq war.

Take with heaps of salt.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-16 12:57:28 PM|| 2004-07-16 12:57:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 VERY interesting. If true, then Allawi may have initiated the "liberation myth" that JAB commented upon in this RB story... and it's an interesting angle worthy of discussion - kudos, JAB!

The ABC/AU weenie is, awards from other press hacks and editorial fools notwithstanding, an agenda agent. His story angle and veracity does not impress me, in the least. The press now occupies a slot beneath Used Car Salesmen and Real Estate Agents on my integrity scale. He'd need to name a lot of names and they'd have to publicly corroborate before I'd accept his version of the story.

That said, we all know how bizarre people can be when describing their ideas on 'justice' - "My shit is stuff. Your stuff is shit." BUT, assuming a small majority can agree these people deserved execution, I guess this eliminates most of the EU folks, I hope Allawi has the stones it takes to pull the trigger. It bodes well, IMHO, for Iraq if he's that tough and sure of himself, not to mention determined. Being attacked by people wielding axes and seeing your wife killed in that way, while you survive it, puts a man through many changes. He might be the guy, the Iraqi Marlboro Man, the hardcore hardass needed to defeat Zarqawi, Baby Assad, the Mad Mullahs, and the Wahhabists - all working their asses off simultaneously to undermine Iraq's future. In Iraqi terms, everything's on the table - all the marbles. One shot to get it right - and multiple generations to correct every misstep taken at this point.

Later, when these real threats have been dealt with, Iraq will be able to afford a touch-feely 'quibble about the color of the wheel' crowd in charge. 'B' Ark wankers and Telephone Sanitizers. For now and the forseeable future, they need a stone cold motherfucker in charge.

I've sure as hell got my fingers crossed Allawi's the man.

Posted by .com 2004-07-16 1:18:23 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:18:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Well, he told them he was going to exterminate them. Guess he's a man of his word.

Posted by Steve 2004-07-16 1:47:36 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:47:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 apply same liberally to Fallujah and the Mahdi Army

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-16 1:55:23 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:55:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 We dont need another Mubarak, or another regime like Algeria's in the '90s, that managed to crush their domestic Islamist loonies, at the cost of said loonies taking aim at the US. I hope everyone in DC, including the folks at Langley, realize that. Kerry and Chirac may think they can get stability without democracy in the middle east, but recent history would suggest thats a problematic strategy, at best.

A short term no holds barred to pave the way for a different future, as dot com implies in his inimitable way?? Maybe. But you gotta watch the cost benefit on that. Even if we can get the SOBs in Iraq by the balls, there are plenty of others less accessible, whose hearts and minds still matter.

Possibility - with the intent of unleashing Allawi as some think is happening above, Bush is counterbalancing by his change of tack on Uzbekistan, and by pressing Sharon on Gaza? Give with one hand, take away with the other. Might be a good strategy - dont know, just speculating.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-16 1:57:52 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:57:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Please include the witnesses next time.

Posted by Capt America 2004-07-16 2:10:20 PM|| [http://captamerica.blogspot.com/] 2004-07-16 2:10:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 If you walk around with your hat in your hand, someone will put your head in it.

LH - I can't really tell what you think, there's too much waffling in there, lol! Are an HHGG vet?

Posted by .com 2004-07-16 2:11:41 PM|| 2004-07-16 2:11:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Bottom dollar bet: this story is phony. There is another one circulating around Baghdad that he personally beheaded a Lebanese prisoner at Abu Ghraib. You know the reaction of the average Iraqi? Good show!

This kind of "tough guy" image is a win-win for Allawi. The people think he's a no-crap kinda guy, and the terrorists have to be scared shitless about being caught. Meanwhile, since he's not doing these things, he can just sit back and mildly deny.

Besides, he's going to CARE what the EU says?

Posted by RMcLeod 2004-07-16 2:47:46 PM|| 2004-07-16 2:47:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 So he will get his picture on T-shits and there will be songs honouring him like for CHe Guevara who did just the same thing.

Posted by JFM 2004-07-16 2:48:43 PM|| 2004-07-16 2:48:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I doubt Allawi pulled the trigger. Probably what we have here is a 4th hand version of something.

Posted by mhw 2004-07-16 2:50:49 PM|| 2004-07-16 2:50:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 dot com - look suppose, just suppose for the sake of analysis, that I actually thought that Allawi shooting some jihadis in a prison, without trial, was a major blunder, playing into the hands of our enemies, in Iraq and around the world - and lets say, again for the sake of analysis that I posted such a comment. What would be the result? Yet another long batch of comments on whether it is better to be hated or feared, on the particular aspects of muslim and arab culture, on weak kneed namby pamby liberals pursuing war by the law book, versus red meat eating conservatives, probably with detours to Gaza, Viet Nam, ancient Rome, etc? We would learn NOTHING valuable, except that we all continue to hold to our particular inclinations.

I come here to actually learn something - starting another boring flamewar with people who are ultimately on the same side im on doesnt accomplish that. That means im sometimes forced to post in a perhaps excessively "nuanced" way. So be it.

To summarize
1. IF this is a good idea (assuming its even true, which I doubt) its only good as a short term measure, leading to long term an Iraq which DOES follow the rule of law, and in which prisoners are only killed after TRIAL.
2. In the short term it has both costs and benefits. The costs and benefits of a get tough policy that goes beyond democratic norms have been discussed so often here they do no bear repeating. I will leave it that are points on both sides. And whoever is making these decisions needs to be aware of both sides.
3. IF its true, and its with the awareness and consent of those who guide US grand strategy, it MIGHT be that they are choosing to pursue fear over love in Iraq, on the idea that what Iraq needs internally now is fear, while realizing that to win the hearts and minds war in other parts of the arab world something has to be thrown their way (im assuming theyre smart enough to realize that something like this would leak) and that Gaza maybe it. Don: Allawi's ready to crush these guys like we cant (wink-wink) and thats the only way we'll get security there soon, which we need to get elections there, to keep this from becoming an AQ win, and to deal with overstretch. Colin:Ok, fine, but if this gets out, it will create problems for us from Morocco to Egypt to Jordan to Pakistan - not to mention Europe - we've got enough shit after Abu Ghraib - one more big stink and we're really gonna lose help we need, on intel, on financing, etc. Don: But we HAVE to do this, or we've got more American soldiers coming home in boxs, and maybe the whole thing going down the tubes. Condi: Lets say we get a BIG news out of Israel, wouldnt that push this out of the headlines - wouldnt the arab world care more about Israeli withdawaeli from Gaza thann about some executed jihadis in Iraq? Dubya - Good idea, Condi.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-16 3:17:11 PM|| 2004-07-16 3:17:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Valium. De-caff. I was not trying to start a flame war. Geez, what a Joycian response.

I refer to my post, again, as my observations on this story. Particularly that JAB made a prescient point on another story thread, that I think the story's uncorroborated BS at this point, and that Iraq needs a tough-as-nails leader for the time being.

Excuse me, Mr LH, for asking WTF your post meant. No sweat - forget it. HHGG is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - it explains the 'B' Ark reference. I guess the answer is "No"... no big deal. Carry on. As you were. At ease.

Posted by .com 2004-07-16 3:27:05 PM|| 2004-07-16 3:27:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Cat fight! Cat fight!

Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-07-16 3:39:37 PM|| 2004-07-16 3:39:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 DF - Awright you - *mumble grumble* - troublemaker! Cease and desist! I said exactly what I meant and meant exactly what I said. No problem here! Carry on, please! Lol! Nothing to see here - move along!

Posted by .com 2004-07-16 3:44:05 PM|| 2004-07-16 3:44:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I don't see what the problem is. So what if Allawi shot seven dogs. Big Fucking Deal!! muslims are filthy fucking animals anyway, who's going to miss 6 or 7 of 'em? God sure won't!

Rave on Allawi!!! Fuck 'em up.

Posted by Halfass Pete 2004-07-16 4:02:02 PM|| 2004-07-16 4:02:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I was not trying to start a flame war.

I didnt necessarily think you were. Just thought that you might not understand a certain studied evasiveness I maintain on certain issues.

Yeah for Joyce ( I enjoyed Portrait of the Artist, but never finished the first chapter of Ulysses)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-16 4:04:13 PM|| 2004-07-16 4:04:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 "Yeah for Joyce (I enjoyed Portrait of the Artist, but never finished the first chapter of Ulysses)"

Lol! I forced myself to try as well, and all I brought away from it was the classic "yes I said yes I will Yes" quote. What a nightmare mind he had!

"studied evasiveness" - now that's nuanced, Lol! Okay, I won't pry - your position is safely vague! ;-)

Posted by .com 2004-07-16 4:14:17 PM|| 2004-07-16 4:14:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I have stated before that this transfer of power was pushed forward to allow exactly this to happen. The fact that we could not do this once the country was defeated (due to int' laws passed after WWII) has lead to much of our problems. What was the real punishment for attacking U.S. or even Iraqi forces???? A naked picture with a dog collar? I bet most of the beheaded victims would have choosen that punishment instead.

I have read that during the occupation of Germany (and I bet the same rule was in affect in Japan) that local commanders were able to try and execute violators. These violations where things like attacking troops and even possession of firearms. This type of rule is required to bring the level of violence down before you can move forward with our more traditional law and order.

Posted by Patrick 2004-07-16 5:34:16 PM|| 2004-07-16 5:34:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 We dont need another Mubarak, or another regime like Algeria's in the '90s, that managed to crush their domestic Islamist loonies, at the cost of said loonies taking aim at the US.

When Allawi or whoever succeeds him goes after their domestic Islamozoids but tolerates those same fanatics if they badmouth the U.S., then you have a Mubarak. In the meatime, if Allawi (who, I might add, has been threatened with death by Zarq' himself) wants to personally drop a few insurgents, well, more power to him.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-07-16 6:12:54 PM|| 2004-07-16 6:12:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 If you watch videos of Allawi and just examine the posture, the placement of the arms and hands and the way he holds his chin down and looks at the camera you have...Tony Soprano. Really. Just like shooting "Pussy."

Posted by Sgt.DT 2004-07-16 7:15:15 PM|| 2004-07-16 7:15:15 PM|| Front Page Top

16:51 Tom
16:25 Tom
15:43 Anonymous6534
10:11 Anonymous6360
07:04 Howard UK
06:53 Sock Puppet of Doom
06:14 Travis
21:11 cingold
20:33 rex
20:13 cingold
10:16 raptor
09:34 Frank G
09:32 raptor
00:44 Mark Espinola
00:41 CrazyFool
00:36 Zenster
00:09 trailing wife
23:56 rex
23:55 Mike Kozlowski
23:52 Bomb-a-rama
23:43 Mike Kozlowski
23:40 Barbara Skolaut
23:36 A Jackson
23:35 trailing wife