Article

2005-05-10 Europe

EU About to Shoot at US, Japan, Aussies ... Foot Wound Predicted

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by too true 2005-05-10 7:55:39 AM|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 These sanctimonious idiots will have to cause lots of damage before their constituents will wake up and realize that centralized bureaucratic sanctimonious idiots got the Soviet Union to where it is today.

Posted by Tom 2005-05-10 09:23|| 2005-05-10 09:23|| Front Page Top

#2 The European love of regulation borders on the pathological. I saw it first-hand while doing some work for the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) years ago: the Euros-- and especially the French-- have a fascination with regulation for regulation's sake that is simply mind-boggling.

They seem to follow some existential calculus that goes, "I regulate, therefore I am."

Posted by Dave D. 2005-05-10 09:43|| 2005-05-10 09:43|| Front Page Top

#3 stifling bureaucracy is how the EU elites keep others in check. Do you think Chirac, et al, will be bound by them? Riiiggghhhtt. Just like they adhere to the national debt limits

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-10 09:49|| 2005-05-10 09:49|| Front Page Top

#4 Is anyone in RB predicting / ready to predict / suspecting that the EU will start a full-fledged trade war?

With all the givens, tanking economies, new-found power to extort money from Us Corps (think: Microsoft), EU Member Govt-subsidized businesses undercutting, threatening, and bribing customers to win business from bona-fide commercial businesses (think: Boeing), over-regulated EU industries choked by idiot bureaucrats unable to compete, ad infinitum ad nauseum -- I'm wondering... it's beginning to look like a major collision, a no-shit no punches pulled knock-down drag-out trade war is ahead.

You guys with all the snazzy financial expertise wanna take a shot at this? Yeah, I know there are gazillions of factors, but it seems that push is, indeed, coming to shove - and there's going to be some very desperate people, on both sides of the Atlantic, with a LOT to lose and a BIG dose of influence with the various Govts. Jobs, baby, that's the true third rail of all politics - so they will be listened to, for better or worse.

This is very Big JuJu, methinks, that has been cooking for quite awhile as the EU strapped on its green eyeshades and patented "See No Evil In Bureacracy" blinders and proceeded to regulate itself out of business - seems to be coming to a boil.

So any takers with a quick shot to offer? We'll keep it civil, too, right? ;-)

Posted by .com 2005-05-10 10:05|| 2005-05-10 10:05|| Front Page Top

#5 And they still wonder why they are falling behind the US. Dumbasses...

Posted by mmurray821 2005-05-10 10:09|| 2005-05-10 10:09|| Front Page Top

#6 Ronald Reagan: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.

Posted by Matt 2005-05-10 10:09|| 2005-05-10 10:09|| Front Page Top

#7 We looked away during the bananas bit but that should have been a warning. Yes, com, I think you are right. BTW... with the propaganda lately their people really really hate us so the pill will taste better to the idiot masses.

Posted by 3dc 2005-05-10 10:11|| 2005-05-10 10:11|| Front Page Top

#8 Sounds like the MCS loons are in control. That's not a good thing.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-05-10 10:27|| 2005-05-10 10:27|| Front Page Top

#9 Not a big deal. If something needs to be done, then it'll get done bothering with any consideration of what the EU bureaucrats think. (or the UN, for that matter)

As you were.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-05-10 10:40|| 2005-05-10 10:40|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes, .com, I think the Euros are provoking a full-fledged trade war. Their own international regs are crushing them, so they seek to deflect the anger and the competition outward.

Watch Lula and others around the world join them, in an attack at the US.

Posted by too true 2005-05-10 11:03|| 2005-05-10 11:03|| Front Page Top

#11 It's not that big a deal for the US economy overall. First, the MSM invariably blows these things way out of proportion, partly because of their inability to do any hard economic or quantitative analysis. Also becausethey can't resist the ready-made story angle: Conflict! Trade WAR!! Finally, lefty journalists love the EU trade war angle because it supports their bogus new meme of the EU as a "moral superpower" that can stand up to Chimpy BusHitler and hit him/us where it hurts.

The facts are that these regs will have very little effect outside the chemicals industry, an old industrial dinosaur whose contribution to US economic and jobs growth is minuscule.

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-05-10 11:13|| 2005-05-10 11:13|| Front Page Top

#12 There won't be a "trade war". This is nothing more than the usual jousting prior to the trade lawyers coming together to figure out a compromise.

The most ridiculous aspect of the "trade war" meme is the notion that multinationals somehow "belong" to one country or another. Is DaimlerChrysler a German or an American company? What about Ford/Volvo/Jaguar? How about GlaxoSmithKline? Honda derives most of its profit from, and manufactures a very high % of its vehicles in, the US. Is it really accurate to say Honda's Japanese?

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-05-10 11:21|| 2005-05-10 11:21|| Front Page Top

#13 Lex is onto something. If the EUniks try this heavy-handed over-regulated approach, the world market will adjust itself and go around the EU. All the EU will become is a fortress of bureacracy, bound by a sandbagged wall of regulations.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-05-10 11:47|| 2005-05-10 11:47|| Front Page Top

#14 Honda derives most of its profit from, and manufactures a very high % of its vehicles in, the US.

And soybeans. Don't forget the soybeans.

Posted by Jackal">Jackal 2005-05-10 12:05|| home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-05-10 12:05|| Front Page Top

#15

All the EU will become is a fortress of bureacracy, bound by a sandbagged wall of regulations.

You mean like they are now, AP? ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2005-05-10 12:12|| 2005-05-10 12:12|| Front Page Top

#16 lex - Sheesh. I guess we can all go home then.

You dissed my comment out of hand - and implied in both of yours that my comment came from this story or the bag of MSM memes. No - I guess you didn't read me very closely. It doesn't. And I'm no gullible noob or conspiracy nut, either.

There have been little shit-storms being played out over the last few yrs... steel subsidies, genetic engineered crops, MS being looted, etc. The bits look like they're converging to me - into something bigger. I thought it might be clearer to others who live in the financials world.

Now I know what you think, so Thx, so much. HAND.

Aw Fuck it. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

Posted by .com 2005-05-10 12:30|| 2005-05-10 12:30|| Front Page Top

#17 It's a work in progress, Barbara, heh heh. They are now overregulated, but are working on more, and they are pricing themselves out of the market.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-05-10 13:45|| 2005-05-10 13:45|| Front Page Top

#18 I see a comming EU version of "Smoot Hawley."
Europe is blind to it's actual internal problems.
Continued moves in this direction will lead to a world wide depression.

Posted by Sock Puppet 0â Doom 2005-05-10 15:41|| 2005-05-10 15:41|| Front Page Top

#19 .com

I don't think that they will risk a full on trade war, but are fully engaged with us in the economic equivalent of assymetric warfare.

The reason that they are going after chemicals is because they were so damn successful with the lead-free solder thing. Yep. No electronics can ship anywhere in the OECD now with lead-based solder. Of course this has cost the (mostly non-EU) electronics business billions that they could have invested elsewhere, which is exactly the point. Oh, and non-lead based solders are either very expensive or suck.

Someone called this a Gulliver strategy in an editorial a few years back. Think of a self assembling team of Lilliputians (Chirac, Schroeder, Lula, Chavez, and any other corrupt loser with a crappy economy he can't revive). Individually, you can't take on the Gulliver. But if you catch him unawares, then you can try to bind him with thousands of tiny ropes. The ropes have names: ICC, GM food ban, lead free solder, "anti-trust," Reach, etc, ad infinitum. Collectively, they start shaving basis points off US and Asian economic growth.

So Lex its not just one industry. It's dozens and growing. And every one of those basis points of lost growth probably translates to tens of thousands of jobs. And remember, every dollar of wealth paid out equals 1/(savings rate) dollars added to the money supply. One good paying job in the chemical industry may pay for ten or twenty McJobs.

Eventually we'll get tired of this tranzi crap. Damn, the next decade's gonna be interesting. I'm glad I still have 20 good years ahead of me.

Posted by 11A5S 2005-05-10 15:55|| 2005-05-10 15:55|| Front Page Top

#20 aka Lex;
The REACH Directive doesn't just pertain to the chemical industry,it reaches out and touches ANYTHING that has chemicals involved. For a minor example-the plastic model industry. Under REACH,every chemical compound involved in the plastic will have to be tested and then certified as safe-by an EU certification system that doesn't exist yet-just imagine the backlog when it gets started.The solvent that cleans the finished products will have to be certified.Same again for the assorted glues and paints to assemble the model. Even the cardboard box will need to be certified if chemicals are used in any way in making the paper.
The REACH Directive can be used to regulate virtually every manufactured item. Why else would a Directive on chemicals effect textiles-because the assorted colors are made by chemical dyes. I for one seriously doubt that the EU bureaucrats will refrain from using their power.
As usual w/the EU,the major corporations(in this case German chemical giants)asked for help in getting rid of minor competition and the EU staff took such a request and turned it into an economy-killer.

Posted by Stephen 2005-05-10 16:28|| 2005-05-10 16:28|| Front Page Top

#21 The concept of a 'trade war' is largely an invention of the media. The WTO endeavours to create a level playing field for world trade, but allows exceptions for environmental and health reasons (as well as other reasons), which countries exploit to create non-tarrif barriers to trade. The reality is that trade barriers hurt the buyer more than the seller (in the aggregate) becuase the buyer pays more for a generally inferior product, whereas the seller can always sell to someone else. Lex has a point that the EU is a large market and regulations they impose can become universal because of economies of scale, but otherwise why should we care what the Euros do. If they want to regulate themselves out of the chemicals business for irrational reasons then let them.

Posted by phil_b 2005-05-10 16:43|| 2005-05-10 16:43|| Front Page Top

#22 What if we and the Asians just said NO! That of course would mean the our products would not ship there, but I am sure that we could, in turn, make it very difficult for their products to ship here. The companies whose identity crosses international boundries (Mercedes, Glaxo, etc.) would look at where the greatest opportunity lay and go there...that would not be in Europe BTW.

If the cost of doing business in/with Europe is too high, then business will not be done there. It should be interesting to see their economy start the death spiral.

Posted by remoteman 2005-05-10 16:48|| 2005-05-10 16:48|| Front Page Top

#23 In the short run this will create jobs there, an economic advantage for them and possibly a capital inflow there.

Which will cement the leftists in power - which is the point.

Posted by too true 2005-05-10 18:08|| 2005-05-10 18:08|| Front Page Top

#24 We need U.S. standards.
ISAY-FU

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-10 18:12|| 2005-05-10 18:12|| Front Page Top

#25 In the short run this will create jobs there, an economic advantage for them Nah, creating jobs that do not result in an increase in either volume or quality of product result in economic disadvantage. The only economic advantage is to their competitors who get to sell more product.

Posted by phil_b 2005-05-10 19:30|| 2005-05-10 19:30|| Front Page Top

#26 Too True,
In the short rumn any number of snall businesses will be driven out of business as they cannot afford the testing fees. An earlier commentary on the EUReferendum blog demonstated how this would devastate the Euro textile industry.
If the EU thought for a minute this Directive would add jobs,they would be falling all over themselves to announce the good news. instead ...silence.

Posted by Stephen 2005-05-10 19:32|| 2005-05-10 19:32|| Front Page Top

#27 In the short run there will not only be new testing jobs, there will also be new jobs in the big EU companies to replace imports. Yes, some small cos will go out of business ... but the EU economy is far less dependent on them than we are.

In the middle run everything you say is true ... IF the market is allowed to function. But Brussels exists to prevent that.

In the long run this is a disaster for them.

Posted by too true 2005-05-10 20:13|| 2005-05-10 20:13|| Front Page Top

#28 Too True,
The few testing jobs added will be government jobs. Replacing tax producers w/tax consumers is not good,short,long or medium term. Further,the giant companies wanted less competition because they aren't able to export as is,and they wanted to raise the imports prices. Driving out of business the smaller lower-priced firms will not help the bigs export more so there will be no boost in exports. They may be able to sell more in the EU zone,but at the higher average prices there will also be fewer people buying.(If before the bigs sold 5mil of something and the littles 2mil,now the bigs sell 6mil and no little sales,this is bad for consumers and the state as far fewer taxes are pd and fewer people are employed.)

Posted by Stephen 2005-05-10 23:06|| 2005-05-10 23:06|| Front Page Top

23:59 Sobiesky
23:56 Atomic Conspiracy
23:34 Whutch Threth6418
23:29 SC88
23:23 mojo
23:10 Frank G
23:06 Stephen
22:58 Spoluper Hupenter1939
22:52 Kevlar ID
22:36 Jackal
22:32 blackhorse
22:32 Anonymoose
22:25 .com
22:18 Jackal
22:10 jules 2
22:10 jules 2
22:09 jules 2
22:01 Sobiesky
21:54 trailing wife
21:54 Frank G
21:39 Sobiesky
21:39 Mrs. Davis
21:36 Sobiesky
21:36 Frank G