Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.
The e-mail messages, attributed to prominent American and British climate researchers, include discussions of scientific data and whether it should be released, exchanges about how best to combat the arguments of skeptics, and casual comments in some cases derisive about specific people known for their skeptical views. Drafts of scientific papers and a photo collage that portrays climate skeptics on an ice floe were also among the hacked data, some of which dates back 13 years.
In one e-mail exchange, a scientist writes of using a statistical trick in a chart illustrating a recent sharp warming trend. In another, a scientist refers to climate skeptics as idiots.
Some skeptics asserted Friday that the correspondence revealed an effort to withhold scientific information. This is not a smoking gun; this is a mushroom cloud, said Patrick J. Michaels, a climatologist who has long faulted evidence pointing to human-driven warming and is criticized in the documents.
Some of the correspondence portrays the scientists as feeling under siege by the skeptics camp and worried that any stray comment or data glitch could be turned against them.
The evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so widely accepted that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument. However, the documents will undoubtedly raise questions about the quality of research on some specific questions and the actions of some scientists.
In several e-mail exchanges, Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and other scientists discuss gaps in understanding of recent variations in temperature. Skeptic Web sites pointed out one line in particular: The fact is that we cant account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we cant, Dr. Trenberth wrote.
The cache of e-mail messages also includes references to journalists, including this reporter, and queries from journalists related to articles they were reporting.
Officials at the University of East Anglia confirmed in a statement on Friday that files had been stolen from a university server and that the police had been brought in to investigate the breach. They added, however, that they could not confirm that all the material circulating on the Internet was authentic.
But several scientists and others contacted by The New York Times confirmed that they were the authors or recipients of specific e-mail messages included in the file. The revelations are bound to inflame the public debate as hundreds of negotiators prepare to negotiate an international climate accord at meetings in Copenhagen next month, and at least one scientist speculated that the timing was not coincidental.
Dr. Trenberth said Friday that he was appalled at the release of the e-mail messages.
But he added that he thought the revelations might backfire against climate skeptics. He said that he thought that the messages showed the integrity of scientists. Still, some of the comments might lend themselves to being interpreted as sinister.
In a 1999 e-mail exchange about charts showing climate patterns over the last two millenniums, Phil Jones, a longtime climate researcher at the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, said he had used a trick employed by another scientist, Michael Mann, to hide the decline in temperatures.
Dr. Mann, a professor at Pennsylvania State University, confirmed in an interview that the e-mail message was real. He said the choice of words by his colleague was poor but noted that scientists often used the word trick to refer to a good way to solve a problem, and not something secret.
At issue were sets of data, both employed in two studies. One data set showed long-term temperature effects on tree rings; the other, thermometer readings for the past 100 years.
Through the last century, tree rings and thermometers show a consistent rise in temperature until 1960, when some tree rings, for unknown reasons, no longer show that rise, while the thermometers continue to do so until the present.
Dr. Mann explained that the reliability of the tree-ring data was called into question, so they were no longer used to track temperature fluctuations. But he said dropping the use of the tree rings was never something that was hidden, and had been in the scientific literature for more than a decade. It sounds incriminating, but when you look at what youre talking about, theres nothing there, Dr. Mann said.
In addition, other independent but indirect measurements of temperature fluctuations in the studies broadly agreed with the thermometer data showing rising temperatures.
Dr. Jones, writing in an e-mail message, declined to be interviewed.
Stephen McIntyre, a blogger who on his Web site, climateaudit.org, has for years been challenging data used to chart climate patterns, and who came in for heated criticism in some e-mail messages, called the revelations quite breathtaking.
But several scientists whose names appear in the e-mail messages said they merely revealed that scientists were human, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming. Science doesnt work because were all nice, said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of climate studies were in the cache. Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.
He said the breach at the University of East Anglia was discovered after hackers who had gained access to the correspondence sought Tuesday to hack into a different server supporting realclimate.org, a blog unrelated to NASA that he runs with several other scientists pressing the case that global warming is true.
The intruders sought to create a mock blog post there and to upload the full batch of files from Britain. That effort was thwarted, Dr. Schmidt said, and scientists immediately notified colleagues at the University of East Anglias Climatic Research Unit. The first posts that revealed details from the files appeared Thursday at The Air Vent, a Web site devoted to skeptics arguments.
At first, said Dr. Michaels, the climatologist who has faulted some of the science of the global warming consensus, his instinct was to ignore the correspondence as just the way scientists talk.
But on Friday, he said that after reading more deeply, he felt that some exchanges reflected an effort to block the release of data for independent review.
He said some messages mused about discrediting him by challenging the veracity of his doctoral dissertation at the University of Wisconsin by claiming he knew his research was wrong. This shows these are people willing to bend rules and go after other peoples reputations in very serious ways, he said.
Spencer R. Weart, a physicist and historian who is charting the course of research on global warming, said the hacked material would serve as great material for historians.
#1
The evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so widely accepted that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument.
The NYT covering for its readers. Whew! We almost had to be concerned that we were backing a bunch of frauds for a second! But the NYT, with a single sentence, dismisses any diversity of thought and lets everyone continue with their pre-hack mindsets.
#2
Eleven pages of reader comments as of a few minutes ago. Not all of them agree that this is criminal behaviour by mentally deficient deniers. It's nice that, for once, New York Times readers -- at least those that read the NYT blogs -- will not stand slack-jawed and clueless during the next cocktail party. So there's that.
#6
The biggest problem has been that they have kept hidden most of the data and the processes that were used to come to their conclusions. Without open books on the data and techniques there is no science. All you have is wild**s story-telling.
#8
The evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so widely accepted that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument.
So sayeth Andy Revkin, NYT scribe. Who just so happens to be part of the Univ E. Anglia email ring. I suspect that when and as more emails are unearthed, Mr. Revkin's cred as a serious, unbiased journalist will be in tatters. Think: Jason Blair.
Hundreds of Muslim protesters on Saturday burnt Christian-owned shops in southern Egypt and attacked a police station where they believed a Christian accused of raping a Muslim girl was being held, a police official said.
Police repelled the demonstrators in the town of Farshut using tear gas and also arrested 60 people during the clashes in which seven Coptic Christian-owned shops were destroyed, the official said.
The protesters hurled stones at the police station after they heard that a Coptic Christian man accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting a 12-year-old Muslim was being held there, he said.
Roughly ten percent of Egypt's 80-million-strong population are Coptic Christians, who complain of discrimination and are sometimes the target of sectarian attacks.
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11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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#1
attacked a police station where they believed a Christian accused of raping a Muslim girl was being held
#2
ION MEMRI > SHEIK AL-QARADHAWI EXPLAINS HIS OBJECTIONS TO MUSLIM-CHRISTIAN INTERFAITH DIALOGUE [IHO Islam = Muslim World gains no benefit as the VATICAN had seemingly apologized to JEWS for their disbelief, criticisms and murder of JESUS CHRIST, BUT THE VATICAN HAS NOT APOL TO MUSLIMS FOR THE CRUSADES, NOR HAS RECOGNIZED THE DIVINITY OF THE MUSLIM PROPHET MUHAMMED DESPITE ISLAM HISTOR RECOGNIZING THE CHRISTIAN JESUS AS A [lessor/sub]PROPHET WHOM WILL COME AGAIN]???
[Al Arabiya Latest] Egypt will not allow its citizens living abroad to be humiliated, President Hosni Mubarak said in an address to parliament on Saturday, in an apparent reference to a spat with Algeria over a World Cup qualifier. "Yo! Egypt! Nanny-nanny boo-boo! Stick yer face in poo-poo! Thhhhhhhp!"
"We do not allow anyone to humiliate them (citizens abroad)," Mubarak said to applause from the assembly. "I thuppose you realithe thith meanth war!"
"Clearly, the dignity of the Egyptian people is the dignity of Egypt," Mubarak said as at least two parliamentarians waved national flags. "And Egypt will not take it lightly when it comes to honouring the dignity of its people." Is it just me or is that statement more than usually oxymoronic?
What are they going to do, send the Egyptian army on a forced march across North Africa to Algeria? Given the last report I received on the state of Egyptian army footgear, are they capable of marching for any distance beyond the ability of duct tape to hold a boot together?
" Clearly, the dignity of the Egyptian people is the dignity of Egypt. And Egypt will not take it lightly when it comes to honouring the dignity of its people "
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak
The row has erupted between Algeria and Egypt since a bus carrying the Algerian football team was stoned in Cairo last week and Egyptians were attacked by Algerian fans in Khartoum and Algiers. You don't think the two could be related, do you?
Egypt twice summoned the Algerian ambassador in Cairo and on Thursday recalled its envoy in Algiers. Egypt beat Algeria 2-0, leading to a play-off in Khartoum for a place at next year's World Cup finals in South Africa. "Beat us in a metric football game, will they? Well! We'll show them! We'll... ummm... we'll beat up some Christians!"
Busses carrying Algerian fans were stoned after the Cairo match and fans clashed outside hotels housing the Algerians, leaving at least 20 Algerian fans and 12 Egyptians wounded. The attack led to reprisals in Algeria against Egyptian homes and businesses. ... which is presumably where the honor & dignity thing comes in. Returning the favor appears to be a no-no...
Protesters in Algiers attacked 15 offices of a local subsidiary of Egypt's Orascom Telecom, prompting the firm to evacuate its 25 Egyptian employees and their families, and twice ransacked the Algiers offices of EgyptAir.
" There appears to be something strange in the composition of Algeria -- it has spite and malice towards Egypt "
Mubarak's elder son Alaa
After the play-off in Khartoum on Wednesday, won by Algeria, Algerian fans reportedly attacked busses carrying Egyptians who were heading to Khartoum airport for the return home. The media of both countries have traded invective and circulated rumors of Egyptian and Algerian deaths despite denials by both governments. In a rare public statement, Mubarak's elder son Alaa who was at the Khartoum game slammed the Algerian fans as "mercenaries" and said the Egyptian team had faced "terror" in Khartoum. "There appears to be something strange in the composition of Algeria -- it has spite and malice towards Egypt," he was quoted by state news agency MENA as telling a television sports program. There is, however, nothing strange in the composition of Egypt, which started the festivities by stoning the Algerians...
Reports of the attacks in Khartoum, which Egyptian Health Minister Hatem el-Gabali said lightly wounded 21 fans, enraged Egyptians. An angry protest early on Friday outside the Algerian embassy resulted in clashes between demonstrators and riot police protecting the mission, leaving 35 policemen injured. Algiers on Friday summoned Egypt's ambassador to protest at attacks on Algeria by the Egyptian media, APS news agency reported.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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Egypt Muslims burn Christian shops: police
Nov 21 05:02 PM US/Eastern
Hundreds of Muslim protesters on Saturday burnt Christian-owned shops in southern Egypt and attacked a police station where they believed a Christian accused of raping a Muslim girl was being held, a police official said.
Police repelled the demonstrators in the town of Farshut using tear gas and also arrested 60 people during the clashes in which seven Coptic Christian-owned shops were destroyed, the official said.
The protesters hurled stones at the police station after they heard that a Coptic Christian man accused of kidnapping and sexually assaulting a 12-year-old Muslim was being held there, he said.
Roughly ten percent of Egypt's 80-million-strong population are Coptic Christians, who complain of discrimination and are sometimes the target of sectarian attacks.
[Al Arabiya Latest] Protesters hurled stones and firebombs at police near the Algerian embassy in Cairo on Friday, wounding 11 officers and 24 policemen as anger mounted over attacks on Egyptians after the countries' World Cup qualifier.
The interior ministry that 15 cars were also damaged in the violence.
Arab League chief Amr Moussa called for calm in the row between Algeria and Egypt.
"I call for a return to calm and reason on the Arab street. The affair must be restored to its true proportions, after all the Egyptians like the Algerians are Arabs," Moussa, in Dubai for a forum organized by the World Economic Conference, told AFP.
Protests
" I call for a return to calm and reason on the Arab street. The affair must be restored to its true proportions, after all the Egyptians like the Algerians are Arabs "
Arab League chief Amr Moussa
The protest started on Thursday night on a street leading to the embassy, where riot police repeatedly turned back an angry crowd.
The several hundred demonstrators chanted anti-Algerian slogans and sang their national anthem, burning Algerian flags.
"We should treat Algeria like any country that has declared war on us," said Amr Higazi, a university student holding a placard calling for the expulsion of the Algerian ambassador.
In other words, speak much but do nothing. When was the last time Egypt actually won a war with an opponent not named Nubia?
There was that dust-up with the Hittites ...
I'd forgotten that. Wasn't that shortly before the First Temple fell in Jerusalem in 586 BCE?
On Friday afternoon, riot police blocked access to the street that led to the embassy, located in the affluent neighborhood of Zamalek, and herded away about 30 protestors, some of whom trampled on and burned Algerian flags.
Glass from store fronts smashed in the early morning violence covered a nearby pavement.
The demonstrators were enraged by reports of attacks against Egyptian fans in Khartoum on Wednesday after a World Cup qualification decider with Algeria, and demanded the expulsion of the Algerian ambassador.
Egyptian fans told AFP that stones were thrown at their bus as they made their way back to Khartoum airport after the 1-0 defeat, which followed a 2-0 victory for the Pharoahs in Cairo on Saturday that led to the play-off.
Egypt's Health Minister Hatem al-Gabali said 21 Egyptians were lightly wounded in the attacks, a number disputed by Sudanese police, which said only four Egyptians were wounded.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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#1
Glad to see that the Middle East is acting with the grace and maturity that we have come to expect after facing a heartrending loss.
[Bangla Daily Star] A leader of inter-district dacoit gang was shot dead in a gunfight with police at Salabhara bus stand under Kaliganj upazila, Jhenidah early yesterday.
You'll recall that a gunfight is nothing like a cross-fire. And anyway, it was the police who were gunfighting with the gang of dacoit miscreants, not the innocent Rab.
He was identified as Hazrat Ali alias Daku Hazrat, 35, of Patbila village under Kaliganj upazila.
It's on the map... somewhere.
Acting on a tip-off,
Mahmoud the Weasel strikes again!
a patrol team of police cordoned off Salabhara bus stand where a gang of robbers was preparing to commit a robbery by felling trees on Dhaka-Khulna highway early hours of yesterday, Officer-in-Charge of Kaliganj Police Station Mehedi Hasan said.
Goodness, all of that? It sounds awf'ly complicated.
Sensing the presence of law enforcers, the dacoits opened fire on police prompting them to fire back that left Hazrat dead on the spot.
Spidey Sense may have been honed to a fever pitch, but their manners were decidedly lacking. Everyone knows one never commences firing without first sending one's targets an engraved invitation. Under the circumstances, the police really had no choice but to forgo the niceties and respond in kind.
Police recovered his body and sent it to Jhenidah Sadar Hospital morgue for autopsy, the OC said.
"He's dead, Jim."
Hazrat's accomplices however managed to flee the scene.
Somehow. And yet they left no evidence of their presence even to the Sherlock Holmes-like detecting ability of the Kaliganj police.
Police fired around 20 rounds during the "shootout", police said.
No, no -- it was a gunfight, you dolts! Do try to keep up.
A pipe gun, five bullets, three choppers and one saw were recovered from the spot.
A flint chopper, or something more modern? So few can properly knap flint nowadays, you know. It's practically a lost art.
I'm trying to figure out whether a 'chopper' was an ax, a machine gun or a Harley ...
During the gunfight police ASI Jamirul Islam and constable Aktural Islam of Kaliganj Police Station sustained bullet injuries.
Scratched fingers and bruised palms acquired while loading bullets into clips, or so I've heard.
Hazrat is accused in 16 cases including three for murders, two for bomb attacks and three for extortions.
A thorough going badman, wanted on twelve systems for his crimes and misdemeanors. The Kaliganj police saved the judicial systems years of fuss.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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#1
I'm trying to figure out whether a 'chopper' was an ax, a machine gun or a Harley ...
Tou forgot "Helicopter".
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/22/2009 12:14 Comments ||
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#2
Grrr, Y dammit.Not T
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/22/2009 12:17 Comments ||
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#3
It would be a tad difficult to haul multiple helicopters to a hidden meeting place in the middle of a Bangladeshi village, Redneck Jim... unless they were those radio-controlled jobbies boys like.
Do ya' think the audience members will be arrested for being "insufficiently sensitive" or some such crap when they all burst out laughing?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/22/2009 8:26 Comments ||
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#4
I like how the polar bear lands on top of what looks like an old Caddy halfway through. Are there that many old Caddies in the UK? I mean, shouldn't it have been a Jag or Range Rover instead? And the "all day parking" sign boasts a $20 charge. Somehow....I don't think there are many lots (or carparks, sorry) in the UK that charge in USD.
So....since I'm a stooopid hick in flyover country, I'm thinking maybe the European flights are ok. It's those damn Yankee flights that are killing the polar bears!
#5
It seems as though the ad agency was working on a shoestring budget and we will see these ads on this side of the pond in short order. Since everybody knows that Americans are the REAL evil guys around, it only makes sense that when polar bears fall to their deaths out of the sky, it is US doing it.
#6
This would be improved immensely if they spliced in Warner Brothers cartoon sound effects. Maybe of Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff, boings, honks, and aroogahs.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/22/2009 16:38 Comments ||
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#11
Thanks, badanov! It's even about the right ratio, too! And the folks in the office who are inclined to be offended by this kind of stuff are just going to have to bite their tongues off after I send them the link to the ad after they bi+ch about my cool new screensaver.
[Iran Press TV Latest] Thousands of pro- and anti-government protesters have taken to the streets of Managua, protesting and supporting Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega's bid to remain in power.
Chanting "Democracy yes, dictatorship no!" Ortega opponents, numbered at 50,000 by organizers, marched peacefully in Managua to protest against his controversial re-election plans, even as thousands of the president's supporters gathered for their own demonstration.
Security was heavy in the capital following provocative gestures earlier in the week by both sides which suggested there could be clashes between the two demonstrating groups, AFP reported on Saturday.
Several groups led the opposition event, and many waved blue and white Nicaraguan national flags as supporters of opposition political parties, thousands of whom flooded into the city from the countryside to protest, as did business groups and representatives of the powerful Catholic Church.
The two marches originally had been called for the same time on nearly the same route, but the risk of violence prompted the pro-government rally to be moved to the afternoon.
Securing the ability to seek re-election has been a key strategy for leftist regional allies Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, Rafael Correa in Ecuador, and Evo Morales in Bolivia, among others.
Ousted president Manuel Zelaya of neighboring Honduras was thought to have been developing such plans when an army-backed coup toppled him in June.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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[Iran Press TV Latest] Venezuela has captured a leader of a right-wing Colombian paramilitary group. Magaly Janeth Moreno Vega was arrested by Venezuelan police on Thursday in Maracaibo near the country's northern border with Colombia, Interior Minister Tareck El Aissami said, describing the 39-year-old who is wanted by Interpol as the "paramilitary chief" of the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), AFP reported.
"She is nicknamed ... 'The Pearl' within the AUC" and "handles extremely important information," El Aissami said.
Bogota, however, promptly hailed her arrest, vowing to seek her extradition from Venezuela so that she can be tried for various crimes in her native Colombia.
El Aissami said Moreno Vega was, along with a colleague, in charge of "relations between the AUC and Colombian security forces, that is, the DAS (the Colombian intelligence agency), army and police."
The Venezuelan interior minister called Moreno Vega a "confidante" of former Colombian attorney general Luis Camilo Osorio Isaza, the current ambassador to Mexico, and said the arrest was evidence of "aggression" against Venezuela.
Speaking on state television VTV, El Aissami accused Colombian President Alvaro Uribe of "institutional and moral decay" for his government's ties to paramilitary groups that "attack our people, and threaten peace and order."
This article starring:
Magaly Janeth Moreno Vega
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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Azerbaijan says it has "the full right" to resort to military action in order to liberate the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which it lost to Armenia in the 1990s.
Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev said on Friday that if an upcoming meeting with his Armenian counterpart ends short of a deal on the matter "then our hopes in negotiations will be exhausted and then we are left with no other option" than to reclaim the territory by force, the Reuters news agency reported.
"We are doing that because we never excluded and we do not exclude that option. We have the full right to liberate our land by military means," he added.
Azerbaijan lost control over the region in a rebellion by local Armenians, who were supported by Yerevan's military. The conflict killed tens of thousands of people rendering more than a million others homeless.
"That meeting must play a decisive role in the process of negotiations," the Azerbaijani president noted as he was preparing to attend talks with Armenia's Serzh Sargsyan in Munich on Sunday.
The international community has refused to recognize the de facto rule of the ensuing Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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The abandoned corpses, in white body bags with number tags tied to each toe, lie one above the other on steel racks inside a giant freezer in Detroit's central mortuary, like discarded shoes in the back of a wardrobe.
Some have lain here for years, but in recent months the number of unclaimed bodies has reached a record high. For in this city that once symbolised the American Dream many cannot even afford to bury their dead.
"I have not seen this many unclaimed bodies in 13 years on the job," said Albert Samuels, chief investigator at the mortuary. "It started happening when the economy went south last year. I have never seen this many people struggling to give people their last resting place."
Continued on Page 49
#1
How about a little stimulus here, guys? Fifty bodies doesn't sound like much of a problem to me. $10K ought to do it. Even for Detroit, that's pocket change. Michigan should fix this, maybe transfer some of that stimulus from District 0.
Disgraceful. Unions, welfare, and corruption: the deadly combination.
#6
"Plenty of money for corruption and bureaucracy empire building."
Well, of course, P2k - at least they've got their priorities straight.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/22/2009 8:22 Comments ||
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#7
It is evidence, they believe, of people who could not afford medical insurance and medicines and whose families can now not afford to bury them.
If you wonder why your reps seem so suicidal in their desire to pass stimulus and health care bills this little editorial note, slipped in to make a push for health care, will help you to understand. Understand this and all they do starts to make sense.
We are out of money. It was all one big Ponzi scheme that has ceased to pull in enough money to pay the layers underneath. Underfund pension plans, underfunded entitlements, there is not enough money to meet the empty promises they made to get elected. The people at the top got theirs, but there is not enough for those of us at the bottom.
Right now, those at the top are trying to find ways to get an influx of cash to bury the local dead and to pick up the trash. They will devalue and tax your benefits until the net amount you receive is reduced near to nothing, if not a negative. You will be issued new health care "insurance" that insures next to nothing.
They are out of money. It's that simple.
Sure, they could fix it by getting the economy going again, but that would mean they would lose their power.
In the mean time, there is no money to bury the dead and take out the rubbish. So they rob peter you the taxpayer to pay paul their cronies. The money is gone. Now they are going to strong arm us to get what is left. We get the government option so they can afford the Cadillac plan.
#9
They might overcome this, as well as "go green" by offering to dispose of the bodies the way natural history museums do, with a combination of maggots and cadaver beetles. That would leave just bare bones and spare parts, and the bones could be ground into powder and sanitized cheaply. The spare parts would be recycled.
#11
"continued to make vehicles that Americans no longer wanted to buy"
This is bulls#it. They made and sold tons of cars, trucks, and SUVs. They just couldn't make a profit on them due to the onerous UAW contracts.
Exactly. They sold huge numbers of Buicks, Pontiacs etc. The problem was their inability to shut down production quickly and unwind unprofitable dealer relationships due to union contracts and state legislation created decades ago. The Big 3 could have been highly profitable had they been allowed to eliminate these albatrosses and reduce their operations to manageable size.
They could not do so because of essentially POLITICAL relationships-- with labor and dealers-- not because of management mistakes.
Also, the quality deficit vs the Japanese disappeared a long time ago, and most Ford models have quality superior to Mercedes and other Euro brands. The main reason for the gap was the need to save $$$ to overcome the $1500/vehicle bogey due to onerous health care obligations, which forced the Big 3 to skimp on quality parts. Plastic wears out faster than alloys.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2009 11:56 Comments ||
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#13
Sorry, The management sucked. Not 100% of the time on every car, but all the time on the important issues. They didn't fight the unions and they tolerated crappy dealers when it was apparent that though painful things had to change. Those were definitely problems they did not create, but they tolerated and accommodated to them so they would not have to descend from their executive dining rooms.
And their response to the challenge from Japan was to put the cost accountants in charge of developing styleless boxes that milked brand identity while destroying it.
They lived in a fantasy world and now they're going to be repaid by being made government employees. Watch the UAW try to destroy Ford so they are forced to compete at the level of Government Motors and the Crisis Group. Or we can have a rematch of the Battle of the Overpass with different results.
#14
Lots of bodies illegally buried in toxic industrial dumps or simply tossed away in the abandoned and overgrown brownfield sites throughout the city. If you are looking for the locus of the forthcoming Zombie Apocalypse, Detroit is the place.
#17
...being buried hasn't stopped them from voting why should unburied be any different? Get to vote in multiple districts since they're not stuck in just one?
#18
Everyone is right. Politicians allowed the UAW to bury the auto manufacturers and management had to be bad in order for them to let their companies get buried by the union.
Ultimately, the UAW got too big to succeed.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
11/22/2009 15:04 Comments ||
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#19
Procopius2k: Actually I think that Soylent Green is Morningstar Farms and Bocaburger brand.
#23
Nimble - I don't deny that mgmt sucked, but even the best mgmt-- and Bob Lutz is the best of the best-- can't overcome bogeys like the ones on the back of the Big 3. IIUC they were prevented by law from shutting down dealers in many states. They were prevented by a bolshevik labor union from eliminating ridiculous work rules and a ruinous healthcare compact that put EVERY SINGLE CAR at a huge cost disadvantage from the get-go.
No marketing genius could have overcome those hurdles. And Bob Lutz made a damned good effort in the time he had at GM.
#24
there's a simple way to kill auto unions, stop buying any new cars, if you only buy used then the big 3 will hemorrhage cash till they either kick out the unions, or go out of business, either way Unions lose BIG
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/22/2009 21:01 Comments ||
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#25
Agree as to individuals, like Lutz; but as a group, Detroit management failed to confront its problems and now we are paying the price. They weren't prevented by a bolshevik labor union, they worked with, strengthened and built up the bolshevik labor union, because it was the easy way out. Visit Rouge River; it's pathetic, it'll make you want to puke. Too bad Lemuel Boulware didn't work for GM instead of GE. They're in the Goldman Sachs class as far as I cam concerned. All of them.
Life in CA used to be pretty good. And the Dems started giving things away to illegal immigrants in order to gain votes in the future. Then they got into a drug-like frenzy of giveaways. The pols still seem to be in full-swing giveaway mode out of fear of changing demographics and hope that they'll be killed last, but like any drug addict, the habit's gotten out of hand and the unsustainability is starting to set in. It looks like the veil of denial has been pulled back a bit, at least for these students, who probably voted the Donk line.
Dontcha sorta wish you had that money back now? Wait until the rest of the $hit starts hitting the fan, because that was just one tiny piece.
Demonstrators entered their third day of a building takeover at UC Santa Cruz on Saturday in protest of a tuition increase, an undertaking that a school spokesman called futile.
The occupation of Kerr Hall is just one of several demonstrations across University of California campuses this week after the regent's board approved a 32 percent increase in tuition Thursday.
University officials said the $505 million to be raised by the tuition increases is needed to prevent even deeper cuts than those already made due to California's persistent financial crisis.
Protesting students said the increase will hurt working and middle-class students who benefit from state-funded education.
On the Santa Cruz campus, where building occupations began last week with a library sit-in, about 100 students staged a sit-in in the second-floor lobby of Kerr Hall soon after hearing that the tuition increase had been approved, according to UC Santa Cruz Provost David Kliger.
The students made a list of 20 "demands" detailing how they want the administration to increase funding, spokesman Barry Shiller said. But the school has no plans to negotiate the demands with the student body, he said. The school just doesn't have the money, he added.
School officials hope the students realize that their demonstration is "not accomplishing anything" and is "just a disruption" to administrative duties on campus, he said. The administration will continue to wait out the takeover, but Shiller said he is unsure of how long it will last. The school hopes the students will leave voluntarily, he said.
Meanwhile, uprisings on other campuses have quieted since earlier mass demonstrations. At UC Berkeley on Friday night, 41 protesters occupying a building were arrested. Authorities decided to cite them for trespassing and release them rather than take them to jail, per an agreement with student leaders, school spokeswoman Claire Holmes said. Three students were arrested there Friday morning.
Fifty-two students were arrested at UC Davis late Thursday after they refused to vacate the school's administration building. And UCLA's Campbell Hall was occupied for several hours Thursday evening.
The angry students are condemning a nearly $2,000 tuition increase. The first change, which takes effect in January, will raise undergraduate tuition to $8,373. The second increase kicks in next fall, raising tuition to $10,302, university spokeswoman Leslie Sepuka said.
Students who live on campus could pay an estimated $17,200 in additional fees that include the annual cost of books and housing, according to the system's July 2008 finance guide.
The January increase of about 15 percent is more than double the average public university tuition increase last year. On average, tuition and fees at four-year public universities nationwide increased 6.5 percent, or to $7,020, since the previous school year, according to data from College Board.
Students eligible for financial aid and whose families make less than $70,000 will have their tuition covered, the university said.
#1
Guess in a way I can't blame them. Would you want to pay that kind of money for 4 years just so you can be semi-qualified to ask, "Do you want fries with that?"?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/22/2009 16:47 Comments ||
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#2
UC Santa Cruz - Uber Liberal Arts
Home of the "Banana Slugs"
Posted by: Mullah Richard ||
11/22/2009 17:08 Comments ||
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#3
My sister just got her PhD from UC-Santa Cruz in August (computer science, so she is both employable and employed) commented this afternoon that this announcement is connected to a broad retrenchment effort across the UC system. Professors are getting pay cuts, adjucts and graduate teaching assistants are being cut, fewer student jobs are available, including subject tutoring...and seminars are being dropped in favour of 200-student lectures as a result. I imagine the English Lit. graduate programs are going to be reverse decimated: nine in ten gone, not remaining.
#4
It would not be all bad if the lit faculties were (inverse) decimated-- provided that the STEM (science-tech-engineering-math) departments are maintained at close to current strength.
I know that scenario requires a bit of wishful thinking, but we shouldn't let a crisis, uh, go to waste. Our universities are far too heavy with nincompoop lit-crit-genderbender etc BS professors. What makes us competitive is basic research in the hard sciences. So long as U-Cal keeps funding those, we'll be OK.
#6
Every asset of Caliphornia has been ravaged to support the unproductive greed of the teachers' union and the prison guards. UC is simply next. Why should Berkeley be privileged above Cal State Hayward?
I can't wait to see how they try to wrest Yosemite away from the Feds so they can destroy it.
And why is he voting against his constituents' desires?
Horses would make better senators.
A freshman Democratic senator said Sunday that he will support his party's efforts to pass health care reform legislation even if that means losing his seat in next year's midterm elections.
"If you get to the final point and you are a critical vote for health care reform and every piece of evidence tells you if you support the bill you will lose your job, would you cast the vote and lose your job?" CNN's John King asked Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado on Sunday's State of the Union.
"Yes," Bennet bluntly and simply replied.
Bennet was appointed by Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter to replace Sen. Ken Salazar, who stepped down from the Senate to serve as President Obama's Interior Secretary. Bennet, who was superintendent of the Denver public school system prior to his appointment, will have to seek election to the seat for the first time in 2010.
WASHINGTON -- A crash between a nuclear-powered US submarine and a warship in the strategic Strait of Hormuz was an "avoidable" accident caused by complacent sailors and weak leadership, a Navy report said.
The crash between the USS Hartford and USS New Orleans, an amphibious vessel, on March 20 was a "catastrophic failure" of management and navigation practices on the submarine, according to the report obtained by the Navy Times through a Freedom of Information Act request.
The investigation, reported by the Navy Times on Wednesday, revealed that sailors on board the Hartford took a "lax" approach to navigating their vessel, with those assigned to keep watch often sleeping on the job. The heavily redacted report described one navigator listening to his iPod and simultaneously taking an exam while on duty.
There's a young officer whose career is so over ...
"This incident comes down to weak and complacent leadership, which led to inadequate planning and preparation of the crew," the report said.
Admiral John Harvey called the incident "an avoidable mishap" as he endorsed the investigation's findings.
"Correction of any one of nearly 30 tactical and watchstander errors, or adherence to standard procedure, could have prevented this collision," he added. "In this case, the command team failed to do so, and a high price has been paid for that shortcoming."
The crash injured 15 sailors and caused the fuel tank of the New Orleans to rupture, spilling 25,000 gallons (95,000 liters) of diesel fuel. It caused 2.3 million dollars in damage to the New Orleans, and the Hartford is still undergoing extensive repairs for costs estimated at 100 million dollars.
The Navy investigation said the New Orleans crew "bears no fault" for the crash.
The Strait of Hormuz, less than 60 miles (100 kilometers) at its widest point, separates Oman from Iran and is the gateway into the oil-rich Gulf.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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#1
one navigator listening to his iPod and simultaneously taking an exam while on duty.
Just a guess (based on how stupid MSM reporters are), the "one navigator" was most certainly a petty officer (enlisted for you non-swabbies). The one's to take the brunt will be the CO, XO, and the Navigations Officer, plus whoever was the Officer of the Deck at the time of the accident. They would no longer have anyplace to serve in the Navy and would be expected to resign their commissions.
#2
the Hartford took a "lax" approach to navigating their vessel, with those assigned to keep watch often sleeping on the job
What the hell!!! Sleeping on watch - that is a court martial offense - UCMJ articles 92 (Failure to obey an order or a regulation), 110 (Improperly hazarding a vessel), possibly 113 (Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout), as well as a host of other charges. If the CO knew about this and did nothing, or if it was common knowledge that it happened, he should lose his command.
Posted by: Rambler in Virginia ||
11/22/2009 1:39 Comments ||
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#3
Go Navy!
Posted by: Yo Adrian ||
11/22/2009 12:04 Comments ||
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#4
the expected result where quality has taken a back seat to politics in promotion policy. the quest for diversity destroys the fabric of the whole. why bust your chops and run a tight ship when it is all decided by quota anyway. slide by and kiss ass... as long as there isn't anything terribly embarrassing to your superiors, you will move forward...
a corrosive mentality, but one the left has placed on us
Posted by: abu do you love ||
11/22/2009 14:27 Comments ||
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#5
For being silent specters of the deep, our boats seem to run into a lot of stuff.
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is traveling to the United States for talks on how the two countries will work together on critical issues in coming years. Before departing for Washington on Saturday, Mr. Singh released a statement saying he will meet with U.S. President Barack Obama on topics including terrorism, nuclear disarmament, the global economic slowdown and climate change.
Mr. Obama also is expected to inform Mr. Singh about his decision on a U.S. troop surge for Afghanistan. New Delhi has expressed concern the war there could further destabilize Pakistan, India's nuclear-armed neighbor and longtime rival.
Prime Minister Singh said he hopes to build on a strategic dialogue with the United States aimed at further bolstering ties. Mr. Singh said he looks forward to greater cooperation on trade, energy, defense, technology, science, education, agriculture and health.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2009 00:00 ||
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#2
ION DAWN.PK > CANADIAN MEDIAS: [Volatile/Unstable
= Militancy-wracked]INDIA'S NUKES ARE "GROUND ZERO" FOR JIHADISTS.
* PAKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM > SRI LANKA TO CLAIM ITS SEA BED RIGHTS INCLUDING [India's] ANDAMAN ISLANDS? + MALDIVES OUTLAWS PLACES OF WORSHIP [public/formal]FOR NON-MUSLIMS. NO NON-ISLAMIC PUBLIC PLACES ALLOWED NOR NON-ISLAMIC PUBLIC PROSELYTZING, LOCAL ANDOR FOREIGN, + will also be agz Maldivan Law for ANY local Muslim Maldivan to worship ANY NON-ISLAMIC FAITHS IN PRIVATE HOMES ANYWHERE IN MALDIVES, espec those domiciled by foreigners???
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
[Al Arabiya Latest] Egypt will not allow its citizens living abroad to be humiliated, President Hosni Mubarak said in an address to parliament on Saturday, in an apparent reference to a spat with Algeria over a World Cup qualifier.
