Administrators have shut down an internet forum that carried statements by militants - including the photos of the beheaded American hostage in Saudi Arabia - as well as opinions of Saudi dissidents and supporters of the fight against Westerners.
Users who tried to access www.qal3ati.net/vb/ found "a note to the media" by the webmaster, in English and Arabic, explaining that the site is a public discussion board and the webmaster "is not responsible for any posting unless it is posted by the administrator."
The move was apparently aimed at distancing the site from militants after several claims of responsibility from Islamic militants appeared there, notably grisly photos of slain American hostage Paul Johnson , letters allegedly by killed al-Qaeda associate Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, and his groupâs claim of responsibility for the May 29 Khobar attack that killed 22 people.
Often, the authenticity of the statements was hard to verify.
Websites carrying similar material have been frowned on as propagators of violence. In May, an al-Qaeda-linked site, www.al-ansar.biz, was shut down by the Malaysian company that hosted it after it posted the video of American Nicholas Bergâs beheading in Iraq.
The webmaster of Qal3ati - Arabic for "My Fort" - said the opinions on the site did not reflect the administratorâs views and that it was the siteâs policy to remove any material that "contains incitement for violence."
"However, moderators are not in the site 24 hours and postings can stay for some time before being removed," the statement said.
"We would like to confirm that this unintentional temporary stay of the postings in no way means approval of their content."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 4:39:06 PM ||
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As soon as these fanatics open up another 'hate-site' we should disrupt it, corrupt it and then shut all of them down.
The enemy misuses the internet for the purpose of speading additional jihad-based terrorism and brainwashing Muslim youth, turning them into suicidal nuts, ready to kill themselves & scores of innocent victims, on false promises of a wild time in their Paradise (Hell).
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 18:01 Comments ||
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Heavily EFL to avoid redundant posting.
... Meanwhile Sunday, the al-Qaida cell behind Johnsonâs killing and a number of other recent attacks on Westerners in the kingdom detailed the abduction of the American, saying it was helped by sympathizers within the Saudi security forces. The account highlighted fears that some diplomats and Westerners in the kingdom have expressed, that militants have infiltrated Saudi security forces, a possibility Saudi officials have denied. Saudi King Fahd said Sunday that the attackers would not succeed in their aim of harming the kingdom. To late, @sshole!
Breaking News: Fox News is reporting Soddy police have surrounded a house in Riyadh, believed chock full of Bad Guyz. More as it develops...
More... Witnesses say the Bad Guyz beat it after a brief exchange of fire. The house won't get away, though...
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:59:26 PM ||
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their net site appears to be down...
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 14:10 Comments ||
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How did that go again? "The Soddies have 'em surrounded; the surrounding is complete; the only one who won't get away, is the one with bad feet." Credit, The Religious Policeman.
#3
The some of the suspects fled on foot into nearby houses.
"Home Surrounded in Saudi Militant Search
By SALAH NASRAWI
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Saudi security forces on Sunday surrounded a house in central Riyadh where suspected militants were believed to have fled after a brief exchange of gunfire at a traffic light, security officials said.
Police cars and armored vehicles and a large contingent of emergency forces filled the area, and blockades were set up at all the entrances to the al-Malaz district.
Witnesses told The Associated Press that they saw shooting between suspects and police before some men fled on foot, seeking refuge in a house.
It was the same area where Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, believed to be the leader of al-Qaida in Saudi Arabia, and three other militants were killed in a shootout with Saudi security forces on Friday, hours after photos of American Paul M. Johnson's body and severed head were posted on a Web site.
Police are continuing their search for Johnson's body and the militants involved in his death. Early Sunday, armored vehicles and a helicopter sealed off three neighborhoods of the Saudi capital, searching any cars that tried to leave the areas."
#8
Fume as you might, the Saudi government is still a friendly government, or at least as friendly as we are ever going to get.
There are two problems as I see it:
1. It is damned difficult to find terrorists...anywhere. I remember trying to find Patty Hurst's Kidnappers in the '70's, and the SLA remained for the longest time impossible to find and pin down. The same holds for the Bader Meinhof gang in Europe, the Weather Underground in the US, the Shining Path in Peru, ect, ect, ect.
I fear that we are forgetting how damned difficult police action is against a terrorist cell. Which leads me to my second point...
2. No, I'm not happy with the current Saudi government, either. And yet no one has suggested a viable alternative. I see no one standing in the wings to step in and take the place of the House of Saud that would show a friendlier face to the West than those already there in the palace.
So, in the final analysis, I would suggest that all we can do is grit out teeth, hitch up our pants and keep on going as we are...as difficult as it may be.
There is the idea of assassinating Nayef...but I really at this moment don't know enough about the guy to really, with any certainty, make the call that killing him would answer anything.
(PS, I'm thinking about posting on my most recent chance meeting with some Algerian police under the Algeria thread, but it may be too long for Rantburg...still, it should be a fun read, I'll see how it looks).
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 17:17 Comments ||
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The 'Soddies' have been as helful in combating terrorism as sod it self ...100% useless since after all they created the Wahhabi cult to begin with.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 18:07 Comments ||
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Hey, Saudi Police. I'm over there. Surround that house over there, yes, that's the one.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
06/20/2004 19:18 Comments ||
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#81. It is damned difficult to find terrorists...anywhere. I remember trying to find Patty Hurst's Kidnappers in the '70's, and the SLA remained for the longest time impossible to find and pin down.
If you remember the Hearst kidnapping then you might recall McDonald's "SLA burger."
#14
Someone could do a scientific experiment. Slap a study on this:
Hypothesis: Things would be better in Saudi Arabia if Prince Nayef was gone.
Experimental methodology: Bump of Prince Nayef. Observe some 5000 yards off through heavy lenses. Take notes. Take some polls. Do a statistical study. Massage data, and voila!
Conclusion: ____________________________________
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 20:34 Comments ||
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If they only took surrounding terrorists as seriously as the Religious police take surrounding a burning girl's school I'd feel better.
"We just didn't notice it while he was alive...
Mohammed Rasooldeen, Arab News
The man considered the leader of Al-Qaeda in the Kingdom had been a gun for hire around the world since his teens. Abdul Aziz Al-Muqrin, 31, was believed to be the leader of the group calling itself variously âAl-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsulaâ or the âFallujah Brigadeâ that claimed responsibility for beheading Paul M. Johnson. Al-Muqrinâs fighters are blamed for a recent string of terror strikes in the Kingdom, among them the May 29 shooting and hostage-taking in Alkhobar that killed 22 people, most of them foreigners, and the Nov. 8, 2003, suicide bombing at Riyadh housing compounds that killed 17, mostly non-Saudi Muslims working in the Kingdom.
Al-Muqrin was born and bred in Suwaidi, a district in Riyadh known as a hotbed of lunacy extremism. A BBC cameraman was shot and a correspondent wounded while reporting in Suwaidi earlier this month in front of the home of another terrorist gunned down by security forces there earlier. Al-Muqrin dropped out of high school in the late 1980s and fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan after training with Osama Bin Laden. He later fought in Bosnia and in Algeria, where he was involved in weapons smuggling from Spain via Morocco. Subsequently, Muqrin went to Somalia where he organized tribal fights against Ethiopia. He also fought in Bosnia Herzegovina with a group of Saudi youth. Security sources say he was arrested in 1999 for illegally crossing the border into Yemen and was sent home, where he spent two years in prison before being released for good behavior.
Al-Muqrin took over Al-Qaeda operations in the Kingdom after his predecessor Khaled Ali Al-Haj was killed by security agents earlier this year, but he had masterminded attacks before that. Al-Haj, a Yemeni, had succeeded Yousef Al-Airi, who was killed in a clash with security forces in early 2003. Al-Muqrin, known as a smart and brutal tactician, was the most-wanted terrorist in Saudi Arabia. His attacks in recent months showed a measure of tactical flexibility â car bombs as well as pinpointed strikes like the kidnapping of Johnson, a first in the Kingdom. His cell also used the Internet for publicity, posting videos and photos as well as accounts boasting of the groupâs atrocities. An Internet statement last month purportedly from Al-Muqrin said Al-Qaeda relied on independent cells that function without âorganizational cohesion.â The statement said Al-Qaeda cells follow the groupâs example as well as books and periodicals on how to carry out attacks.
In another Internet statement attributed to Al-Muqrin, he indicated he was recruiting Saudis to fight the US-led occupation army in Iraq. âBy sending our fighters to Iraq, we are not only serving the Iraqi cause but the cause of Islam,â the statement said. A video that surfaced on websites in April showed a masked man identified as Al-Muqrin vowing to expel Americans from the Arabian Peninsula.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:30:38 PM ||
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That is not entirely true. There was that time in a saudi jail when he behaved so decently that, he was realeased 2 years early.
Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia announced Sunday that Saleh al-Oufi will replace slain leader Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin, according to the Islamist Web site where the group posts its messages. Al-Oufi, a former prison guard, holds the number five spot on Saudi Arabiaâs list of 26 most wanted terrorists, although Saudi security sources told CNN that he lacks some of the operational experience of al-Muqrin, who was killed in a shoot-out with Saudi security after the murder of American hostage Paul Johnson.
I'm sure the Learned Elders of Islam will lend him all the support they can to bring him up to speed...
On the Web site Saturday, the group vowed to continue to fight "jihad" as it has "promised God," and said the killing of its "brothers" will make the group "stronger."
Does that mean if the Soddies somehow manage to kill them all they'll become invincable?
Saudi foreign policy adviser Adel al-Jubeir said the security action was "a major blow" to al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia.
"Sniff!"
There were conflicting reports on whether Johnsonâs body had been found. Saudi security sources told CNN the body was found, but al-Jubeir told reporters in Washington that the body had not been found.
"Yeah. We have a headless body, but it's not him..."
A senior state department official also said no body had been found.
"Only a head, but it's not him..."
"We are searching for the body," Al-Jubeir said at a news conference. "We believe we know the area where it might be, in the northern outskirts of Riyadh, but havenât found the body yet." Al-Jubeir said the Saudi confirmation that Johnson was killed was based on an analysis of the photographs by U.S. and Saudi experts.
I'm not what you'd call a medical expert, but I could just about guarantee he was dead...
I am a medical expert. He's dead.
"This was a major blow to al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia," said Jubeir. "We believe that with this blow to al Qaeda we have substantially weakened their organization. We will continue to pursue them with vigor until we eliminate them from our midst."
Except that we know that the real leadership is the Learned Elders of Islam, who aren't the ones running around with guns and bombs, don't we?
The al Qaeda cell and Saudi officials identified the other three cannon fodder militants killed as Faisal al Dakhil, Turki al Muteiri and Ibrahim al Durayhim. Al-Jubeir said al-Dhakil "is believed to be the number two al Qaeda person in Saudi Arabia working closely and immediately under al-Muqrin."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:04:27 PM ||
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Forgive me Fred, I couldn't resist posting this piece of Jarhead humor:
Two US Marines are listening to the radio in Iraq. "American soldiers," coos a soft female voice, "Your so-called national leaders have lied to you. You are needlessly risking your lives to wage a useless, unjust, illegal, and unwinnable war. Now is the time to return home to your loved ones, while you are still alive. If you foolishly insist on remaining where you are not wanted, the brave resistance fighters will have no choice but to kill you and add your name to the long ever-increasing casualty list of this insane war. So why risk never seeing your loved ones again for a so-called president who has repeatedly lied and deceived you at every opportunity? Why should you be sacrificed so that US corporations can enjoy fatter profits? The only wise thing to do is return home now, while you are still drawing breath, before you return zippered into a body bag."
"What's this?" sneers one Marine. "An Islamo-terrorist version of Tokyo Rose?"
"No," answers the other. "It's just CNN !"
#4
GK - Check the emails here. An excerpt from May 2nd echoes your post: "I will close with something that was on my mind this morning when I punished myself by watching CBS news. I saw the anchor come on and just before he spoke, I told my rack mate 'Lets see what the opening line is going to be....' Sure enough before he said anything else, he said 'It just keeps getting worse and worse....' Yes, he was talking about Iraq. Honest to God we laughed at him. I'm not kidding. It is getting to the point where the Marines are getting past their anger at the talking heads and are laughing. To really get a rise out of them, requires a retired military officer who betrays his oath and stokes the fear mongering."
I would seriously hate to be one of the idiotarians they can identify after this is over. The imaginary impunity that exists in the minds of asshats like Kos, Rall, et al, is a very dangerous delusion.
Saudi Arabia warned Muslim militants they would share the fate of their slain leader unless they repented, as al Qaeda vowed renewed "holy war" in the kingdom. Saudi analysts who have contacts with militants said on Sunday they expected al Qaeda to name Saleh al-Awfi, a former Interior Ministry employee, as Muqrinâs successor.
A "former" interior ministry employee, eh?
"We tell this deviant group and others that if they do not return to the right path, they will meet the same fate or worse," Saudi Arabiaâs de facto ruler Crown Prince Abdullah said late on Saturday. "Security forces will deal with them, God willing, and with every aggressor inside or abroad," he added.
Better have a long talk with Prince Nayef about that...
"The government is strong and will eradicate the enemy and cleanse the country of them," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef said. "God willing, we will be victorious." Saudi foreign policy adviser Adel al-Jubeir said Riyadh would pursue Islamic extremists without mercy.
Without any particular skill, without any particular determination, but without mercy...
"We believe that with this blow to al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia yesterday, we have substantially weakened their organization. We will continue to pursue them with vigor until we eliminate them from our midst," Jubeir said. "We will show no mercy."
"All we gotta do is catch 'em, you betcha!"
He said reports on Friday that Johnsonâs body had been found were incorrect. Saudi security forces were still searching for the corpse, believed to be in the Riyadh area.
Makes me wonder: the initial reports said the Bad Guys were caught as they were disposing of the body. Turns out it wasn't the body. Wonder whose body it was?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 11:52:03 AM ||
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Security forces will deal with them, God willing, and with every aggressor inside or abroad
Why, look at that! A built-in escape hatch!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/20/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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#2
Atom Ant Jubeir makes me wanna puke every time his oily presence clutters my TV or computer
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:22 Comments ||
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Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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Riyadh will pursue Islamic extremists without mercy, determination, skill, sense, intelligence, integrity or noticeable effect of any kind. However, it will continue to foster their education and pay their necessary expenses.
The Saudi cell of al-Qaeda has chosen former prison guard Saleh al-Oufi to replace killed leader Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin. Al-Oufi is a former prison guard, and is at number five on Saudi Arabiaâs list of most wanted terrorists.
Bingo. Vidicates my speculation below. I wonder if the U.S. knows who the real heads of AQ in the Arabian Peninsula are? I suspect they do...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 11:44:08 AM ||
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I would like to request that iffin our spooks get a hold of this guy, he never sees the inside of any prison.
Further I would like to see Lyndie England privately contracted to be placed in charge of interrogating this prisoner.
#2
Louis Attiyat Allah was listed on one of the MEMRI articles as the replacement for Yousef al-Ayyeri, who was the first declared big cheeze in the Magic Kingdom. My guess is that Louis is the one doing the grand strategy at the behest of his masters in Tehran and that al-Muqrin and Co are just yokels in the grand scheme of things.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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#3
Haven't heard Louie's name lately, have we?
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#4
So he'll get a raise, some Wayfarers, bigger house, faster car, longer-range tracking device, satellite phone, all the goodies that Nayef's chosen Hard Boyz can expect. His wife would be happier, however, if this didn't mean the Life Ins Policy is automatically cancelled. Well, you can't have it all, I guess.
"Which way did they go, George? Which way did they go?
Police in armored vehicles and a helicopter closed off three Riyadh neighborhoods in a pre-dawn search Sunday for Islamic extremists and for the body of the American hostage beheaded by al-Qaida. Saudi Arabiaâs interior minister, Prince Nayef, vowed the government will eradicate terrorism in the kingdom, where the slaying of Paul M. Johnson Jr. on Friday was the latest in a campaign of attacks on Westerners. "The state is strong in crushing the enemy and will cleanse the country," Nayef said during a meeting with local dignitaries, the Saudi Press Agency reported. Terrorists "have followed the devilâs trail and found those whom they can fool." Tell us again about the Zionists, Prince...
The extensive search Sunday morning ended with no immediate word on results. Among the neighborhoods searched was al-Malaz, site of a gunbattle Friday that ended with the death of Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, mastermind of Johnsonâs kidnapping and killing and other attacks in Saudi Arabia. Police sealed off the neighborhoods Saturday night, searching any cars that tried to leave. Dozens of police in cars and armored vehicles moved in to search houses as other officers kept watch from a helicopter into the early morning hours. Earlier Saturday, troops searched in the deserts around Riyadh as well as houses and apartments suspected of being used by militants, officials said. [Knock knock!]
"Youse got any terrorists in there?"
"Nobody here but us wimmin and children and some baby ducks!"
"Hokay!"
While trying to find Johnsonâs body, Saudi officials are also moving to break up al-Moqrinâs cell. Three other militants were reported killed alongside al-Moqrin in Friday nightâs gunbattle â including his deputy â and the Interior Ministry says 12 suspected militants were arrested in a sweep of the capital. "Stick âem up, youse militants!"
The gunbattle in which al-Moqrin was killed came hours after the terror group posted photographs Johnsonâs beheading on an Internet site. One security officer was killed and two were wounded in the gunbattle. The three other militants killed were identified as Faisal Abdul-Rahman al-Dikheel, Turki bin Fuheid al-Muteiry and Ibrahim bin Abdullah al-Dreiham. Adel al-Jubeir, foreign affairs adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah in Washington, said al-Dikheel was believed to be the No. 2 al-Qaida militant in Saudi Arabia "working closely and immediately under al-Moqrin." If the head cheeses are running around the countryside together that implies one of three things: 1. Theyâre incredibly stoopid. 2. The organizationâs actually very small. Fox News has already suggested this, by the way. Or 3. The "head cheeses" are/were actually middle management and the real, genuine head cheeses havenât been identified publicly, possibly not at all by the Soddies. If thatâs the case, and I think it is, there will be a new "leader" popping up within the week, possibly by pulling off another atrocity.
The 12 arrested suspects have not been identified, though a Saudi security official told The Associated Press early Saturday that Rakan Mohsin Mohammed al-Saikhan, listed second among Saudi Arabiaâs 26 most-wanted men, had been wounded and arrested. The English-language Arab News, quoting an unidentified security source, reported Sunday that one of the 12 arrested was suspected of involvement in the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen, which killed 17 U.S. sailors. The Interior Ministry said authorities had confiscated forged identity papers, $38,000 in Saudi and American currency, three rocket-propelled grenade launchers, hand grenades, automatic rifles and other weapons, the Saudi news agency said. Also confiscated were three cars used by al-Moqrinâs cell, including one believed to have been used in the June 6 killing of Irish cameraman Simon Cumbers, who was filming for the British Broadcasting Corp. when he was shot. A BBC correspondent was seriously wounded.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 11:28:55 AM ||
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Remember when the soddies told us how they were led to Mr. Johnson's killers? Supposedly, witness saw men dumping a body and got the license plate number, hence discovering who the bad guys were. Then, there was no body, they're looking for a body....the sods turn out crock upon crock...listen to nothing they say.
Posted by: jawa ||
06/20/2004 17:59 Comments ||
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The al-Qaida cell that kidnapped and killed American Paul M. Johnson Jr. said in an online periodical Sunday that sympathizers in the kingdomâs security forces supplied it with police uniforms and vehicles and set up fake checkpoints to facilitate last weekâs abduction. Comes as a surprise, doesnât it? I know. It floored me, too...
The details of the kidnapping appeared in Sawt al-Jihad, or Voice of Holy War, a semimonthly online periodical published by al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula. A separate article, the final one written by cell leader Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, killed in a shootout Friday night, justified Johnsonâs slaying. The first article said militants wearing police uniforms and using police cars set up a fake checkpoint on al-Khadma Road, leading the airport, near Imam Mohammed bin Saud University. When Johnsonâs car approached the checkpoint June 12, the militants in police uniforms stopped his car, detained him, anesthetized him and carried him to another car, the article said. It said they then blew up Johnsonâs car. "This car is the one the Saudi media claimed was laden with explosives and that (the security) seized and defused it," the article said. Security officials said last week that Johnsonâs car was found near Imam University. Saudi press reports said the car was booby-trapped and later caught fire. "A number of the cooperators who are sincere to their religion in the security apparatus donated those clothes and the police cars. We ask God to reward them and that they use their energy to serve Islam and the mujahedeen," the article read. If Soddy Arabia was a normal country, it should be pretty easy to take a quick inventory of coppers whoâd "lost" their cars and then cut a few heads off. But itâs not a normal country, so itâs doubtful thatâll ever be done.
It said the militants decided to behead Johnson when Adel al-Jubeir, foreign affairs adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah in Washington, declared that Saudi Arabia would not negotiate with the kidnappers, who had demanded the release of jailed al-Qaida militants by Friday in exchange for Johnsonâs life. "The stupid Saudi government took the initiative and announced by the Americanized tongue Adel Al-Jubeir that it will not submit to the conditions of the mujahedeen, claiming that it doesnât negotiate with terrorists," the statement read. Had they said anything else, they might as well have left town at the same time.
The group said it beheaded Johnson when its deadline expired Friday. ... because thatâs the Islamic way.
Al-Moqrinâs final article, written after Johnsonâs kidnapping, described the American as "an infidel, a warrior of the military. ... He works for military aviation and he belongs to the American army which kills, torture and harm Muslims everywhere, which supports enemies (of Islam) in Palestine, Philippines, Kashmir." Johnson, 49, had worked on Apache helicopters for Lockheed Martin. So they bumped off a mechanic...
He replied to critics urging the release Johnson, saying: "Do those people want to see this infidel carry on the killing of the children and the raping of the women in Baghdad and Kabul in order to bless his killing?" "... all the while living peacefully in Riyadh?"
He said it is no excuse that Johnson was not a member of the U.S. military. "According to this twisted logic, U.S. President George W. Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell and others are innocent and peaceful because they are like the hostage, all of them do not wear the military uniform and ... stay away from the battlefield," al-Moqrin wrote. "We canât preserve the dignity of Muslims but through these means," he wrote.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 11:12:59 AM ||
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The head of the al-Qaida cell that killed Paul M. Johnson Jr. justified targeting the American engineer in a message written before he himself was killed in a gunbattle with Saudi security forces. If youâre dead, does your opinion still count?
In an article posted Sunday on a Web site used by Islamic radicals, Abdulaziz al-Moqrin called Johnson "an infidel, a warrior of the military." Johnson, who had worked on Apache helicopters for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia, "works for military aviation and he belongs to the American army, which kills, tortures and harms Muslims everywhere, which supports enemies (of Islam) in Palestine, Philippines, Kashmir," al-Moqrin wrote. The article, posted on the Web site "Sout al-Jihad," or "Voice of Holy War," was written after the kidnapping but apparently before Johnson was killed on Friday. Al-Moqrin replied to critics urging the release of Johnson, saying: "Do those people want to see this infidel carry on the killing of the children and the raping of the women in Baghdad and Kabul?" Al-Moqrin, believed to be the top al-Qaida figure in Saudi Arabia, was killed along with three other militants in a Riyadh gunbattle Friday night, hours after photos of Johnsonâs body and severed head were posted on Web site. Fox News is reporting that AQ in the Arbian Peninsula is claiming they had help from the Soddy security forces in kidnapping Johnson.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 11:04:27 AM ||
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Al-Moqrin replied to critics urging the release of Johnson, saying: "Do those people want to see this infidel carry on the killing of the children and the raping of the women in Baghdad and Kabul?"
The "infidel" ain't the one doing that stuff, asshole, as you well know (knew); it's your worthless compatriots. I think what we have here is called "projection."
Fox News is reporting that AQ in the Arbian Peninsula is claiming they had help from the Soddy security forces in kidnapping Johnson.
Imagine my surprise.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 11:12 Comments ||
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#2
"Islamic Heroes" -- the protectors of femalekind. And Clinton did not have sex with that woman. And Kerry is a devout Catholic. And Michael Moore is as truthful as the noonday sun. And . . .
Who coulda guessed?
The Saudi government's intense public relations campaign to discourage people from supporting extremists isn't swaying some of its citizens, who still consider the militants heroes despite appeals from Muslim religious leaders. In the hours before American engineer Paul M. Johnson Jr. was beheaded by an al-Qaida cell, some Saudis in the fundamentalist neighborhoods of the capital suggested the kidnappers enjoyed popular support. They noted many Muslims share the extremists' anger over U.S. policy in Iraq and Washington's support for Israel. "These (kidnappers) are holy warriors, heroes, who never waver, even if they will fail," said Mizahen al-Etbi, a bearded, bespectacled man who was shopping with his family in the Sweidi district of Riyadh. "All Saudis hate Americans, not only these heroes."
In the eastern oil hub of Khobar, where militants killed 22 people, most foreigners, in a shooting spree and hostage-taking last month, 38-year-old Faiz also showed little remorse for victims of the violence. "Honestly, I don't like bloodshed. But the Americans deserve what they're getting for shedding Arab and Muslim blood all over the world. Plain and simple, they are our enemies," said Faiz, who took a break from his shopping downtown to speak to The Associated Press. He asked to be identified by just one name.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:38:11 AM ||
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No Faiz, 38 years old, we are united in our war against islamic scum.
Notice how Mr Johnson is now regarded as "Americans deserve(ing) what they get.
Oh Faiz, who's your buddy!
Tis I Lucky, your servant, most observent, Abu!
"Faiz is your buddy Abu?"
"My cousin Lucky, we think alike! But we like you. You are not in danger. Tea my brother?"
A Saudi official from the Ministry of Interior said on Saturday that the security forces on Friday night spotted four gunmen around 21:00 Friday evening at a patrol station in Al-Malaz (area). "The security forces immediately surrounded them during which an exchange of fire took place, resulting in the killing of the four." The source identified the four killed as follows:
2. Faisal bin Abdulrahman Al-Dakheel, who was sought by security bodies for participating in killings. One of his picture showed him standing behind a fat person in a tape released by them on the killing of an American citizen last week.
3. Turki bin Fehaid Al-Mutairi, an escaper from Wahat Abdulaziz complex in Al-khobar after the attacks on foreigners there. He was sought by the security bodies.
4. Ibrahim bin Abdullah Al-Duraihem who was sought by security bodies for his participation in preparation for the attack on Al-Mohaya complex in Riyadh earlirt this year.
A security man was killed and two others were wounded, SPA reported. The sources listed the following items which have been discovered from the spot:
1. Three cars; one of which was used in an attack on an Irish journalist and his British colleague.
2. A number of weapons which included guns and sub-machine guns and different types of ammunitions and stocks.
3. Three RPG launchers.
4. 16 pipe-bombs' explosives.
5. 10 grenades of high explosive intensity.
6. SR 132,800 and $2, 900.
7. A number of different IDs and documents.
8. A large number of PC's CDs.
The source also added that the security bodies captured 12 persons who are suspected to have links with these incidents.
I gotta admit, he looks pretty daggone dead.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:29:36 AM ||
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I dunno, he looks a little like he's smiling. Maybe the got those virgins after all.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 0:59 Comments ||
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#2
Make that "Maybe he got"
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 1:00 Comments ||
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8. A large number of PC's CDs.
I'm interested in what was on those cd's. Plans, Terror Operations, Nude pictures of the Royal Family at poolside? Inquiering minds want to know.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/20/2004 1:04 Comments ||
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#4
I doughno, 70 virgins can be pretty taxing, all dem darn cat fights dont-ya-know.
Say, is that ketchup on his bib?
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:12 Comments ||
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#5
Saud Royal family abandoner, Mona Eltahawy, posted an anti Wahabi article in Lebanon's Daily Star on Friday. She is the type of Secular that Bush-Powell are marginalizing in the Arab Peninsula. That is why their Iraq policy is an embarassing sham.
#7
He looks like he's asleep
It's a shame that he won't keep
But it's summer and we're runnin' outa ice
(Poor Judd is dead)
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 4:23 Comments ||
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#8
"Look, matey, I know a dead terrorist when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now. 'E's bleedin' demised! E's passed on! This terorist is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!!"
Posted by: Mike ||
06/20/2004 9:54 Comments ||
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#9
The Saudi's should have released a video of somebody taking his head off with a Poulan so we'd know he's really dead.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/20/2004 10:07 Comments ||
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#10
Originally the saud leaked that this man was killed while dumping the murdered, mutilated body of Paul Johnson. Now they claim they are still looking for Johnsons body. So which is it? Why the story favorable to the sauds about killing an alqada leader?
If this man is dead(almurky) I say Bloody favortism. Where's the attendant mutilation, so common in muslim revenge killings? he looks like a stand-in on Six Feet Under. Bet he gets a nice little funeral, attended by some saud royals, who need to get whacked.
Posted by: Annie War ||
06/20/2004 11:47 Comments ||
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#11
1. Three cars; one of which was used in an attack on an Irish journalist and his British colleague.
2. A number of weapons which included guns and sub-machine guns and different types of ammunitions and stocks.
3. Three RPG launchers.
4. 16 pipe-bombs' explosives.
5. 10 grenades of high explosive intensity.
6. SR 132,800 and $2, 900.
7. A number of different IDs and documents.
8. A large number of PC's CDs.
#12
From Mona Eltahawy, ". For this is the same ideology that militant movements have adopted [adapted, perhaps?] for years throughout the Muslim world.
For one small but recent example one need look no further than Saudi Arabia's neighbor, Iraq. Recent press reports suggest that the town of Fallujah has turned into an Islamic mini-state - anyone caught selling alcohol is liable to be flogged and paraded throughout the city; men are encouraged to grow beards and barbers are warned against giving "Western" hair cuts; women rarely appear in public, and when they do they are covered from head to toe."
The surest sign of hypocracy comes from those who condemn modern "western" technologies and ideology while simultaneously taking advantage of their lethal potential, hoping against hope to absolve themselves of the "bad, western" influences.
#5, DBT, funny how the "islamist" totalitarian state is yet another bastard son of both National Socialism, and Marxism. In Falujah, and with alqaeda, in Soddoms Ba'athist state, in Iran, one finds a phenomenon unachievable without the importation of European Facsism, Marxism, and National Socialism; Soddoms, Talebans, Ayatollah Hommeinis, hey, even Mao Tse Dongs are just too small minded to originate the idea of supreme state ownership of all(everything, including your children) on their own, without the help of the often condemned, but fundamental European Marxian model.
and there lies the history of Modern Europe: at no time is there a struggle except between one kind of socialism versus another kind of socialism. Zum beispiel: National Socialism vs. Stalinist Comunism. Unless The U.S. is forced into the conflict. Only then is Democracy promoted as a way of governmening that originates from the consent of the governed, as an alternative to the dialectic struggle. This a similar indictment .
So, shall we site an example of the American form of hypocracy? one readily familiar? I like the " lets sue McDonalds, cos they make me fat" example. The trial lawyer cabal, having frittered the filthy lucer they extorted through tabacoo lawsuits, are running behind on their bills. They need a new fix. With the help of a giant, former Media Monopoly, itself a corporation, they rev up the extortion racket, yet again, on a reputable corporation, McDonalds. And this corporation, this Media-ocracy, doesn't suffer from the kind of accountability they claim to demand from the so-called "bad corporations". Until Now.
If Newspapers, and TV, want to turn their critical attention at long last, to (wahab)islam, no-one, least of all Pres. Bush is standing in their way.
Posted by: an dalusian dog ||
06/20/2004 13:08 Comments ||
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Posted by: Anonymous5089 ||
06/20/2004 12:37:00 AM ||
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#1
In a nutshell - al Qaeda wants Magic Kingdom in functioning order so it can guage the world into submission, that is after they drive us infidels out and that gain regional dominance....yawn.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:14 Comments ||
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Correction it should read "gouge" not "gauge"
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:26 Comments ||
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Question, if all Westerners are chased out of Saudi Arabia, and the house of Saud falls and Al Queda friendly's take over and Bin Laden's dream is fulfilled. If all of that happens who will pump the oil? Saudi's won't do it and most Arabs don't have the skillset. Are there enough trained Moslems in Indonesia or wherever who could pump the oil? Or will Binnie depend upon French engineers?
#4
Yank-
They may or may not be French, but there will be no shortage of offers from Euro oil compnaies to assist, just so long as if Al-Q is extorting oil to us at $100/bbl, their nations are getting it at $99...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/20/2004 10:33 Comments ||
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I dunno fellas, how long could jihadis hold the oilfields if we decide that national security requires us to take them?
#6
Great reporting from those Stratfor research fellows.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 18:11 Comments ||
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Craig, either take them or level the infrastructure with a series of Moabs. If I'm gonna pay 100/bbl I'd prefer Canada and Mexico gets the cash over Al Queda.
I also find it hard to imagine any guarantees of safety will be taken very well after what's been going on lately in Saudi Arabia. I think they may find it very difficult to find qualified volunteers. They might have to get someone to train non Arab muslims to work the equipment.
#8
Stratfor: The militant leadership knows this and is not likely to put forward its own government --at least not directly. Instead, it will look to position leaders among the kingdom's tribal sheikhs, business elite and senior military officers -- as well as some members of the ruling House of Saud -- who are sympathetic to al Qaeda's worldview and willing to support al Qaeda's long-term goal.
I think Stratfor is on the trail, but they haven't nailed it. Both al Qaeda and the "members of the ruling House of Saud" are using each other. The question is which nest of scorpions will win out.
SOUTH Korea today said it would go ahead with a troop deployment to Iraq, despite a threat from an Islamic group to behead a South Korean hostage unless the plan was scrapped. "We will go ahead with the troops dispatch as planned. There are no changes to our plan," a defence ministry spokesman said. The kidnappers said they would carry out the killing unless Seoul said within 24 hours that it would send no more troops to Iraq. The group released a video today showing the sitting prisoner, identified as Kim Song-Il, ringed by masked, armed men. The men said they belonged to Iraqâs Unification and Jihad (Holy War) group, which is led by the al-Qaeda operative Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi. "Do not send any more troops to Iraq or we will send you the head of this Korean and it will be followed, God willing, by the heads of your soldiers," said one of the men in Arabic.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 9:31:28 PM ||
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They should threaten to double the contingent if the Guy is beheaded.
Missing Pakistani nuclear scientists may be staying in North Korea helping develop its uranium-based nuclear weapons programme, reports said on Sunday. Yonhap news agency, citing a report from the state-run Korea Institute for National Unification (KINU) in Seoul, said North Korea might have achieved a higher level of technology for enriched uranium with the help of foreign scientists. âNine Pakistani nuclear scientists have been missing since they left their country six years ago and we cannot rule out the possibility that some of them are in North Korea,â KINU researcher Jeon Sung-Hun was quoted as saying. North Koreaâs highly enriched uranium programme was at an early stage in its development, he said. âHowever, we should be prepared to find that North Korea has received a level of technology and cooperation from Pakistan, Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Belarus which surpasses general expectations,â he added.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 9:13:06 PM ||
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any chance they'll be taking a train ride?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 23:07 Comments ||
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Gun-shots were fired overnight at a mosque in northern France and racist graffiti daubed on its walls, police said Friday. Three bullet marks were found by the imam of the mosque in the town of Escaudain when he arrived for morning-prayers. The graffiti included the Nazi "SS" symbol. Last weekend a swastika and graffiti extolling Nazi Germany were sprayed on a mosque in the nearby town of Lens. The conflict is beginning ....
#5
I'm with RWV. Alot of mosques are also most likely old synagogues too. 60+ year old synagogues whos attendee's mysteriously disappeared.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/20/2004 1:06 Comments ||
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Charles - Not so mysterious, the attendee's were rounded up by the French government (which did so without being made to by the Germans) after their army bent over for Hitler in '40.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/20/2004 1:15 Comments ||
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Islamics would make more interesting enemies for skinheads, rather than Jews (who are kind of peaceful and boring, if you think about it).
Since the neo-Nazis just want to cause a ruckus, and have absolutely nothing to contribute to society, oh-man-oh-man have they found fertile ground in the worshipers of a pagan diety commited to war! Ideological "twins" -- but: they're can be only one!
Guess I'd be more worried if they had made friends with the Islamics. But that won't happen. It's like gang turf wars. The Islamics think they're the super-race/religion and so do the neo-Nazis.
I expect it's gonna be a showdown for some time to come.
Over three decades, "civil rights" lawyer Lynne Stewart has defended revolutionaries, terrorists and mobsters. But in her most important case yet, the combative attorney finds herself in a new and precarious role: defendant. Federal prosecutors have accused Stewart of conspiring with two associates to improperly aid her client Omar Abdel-Rahman, the blind Egyptian sheik serving a life sentence for conspiring to blow up New York City landmarks and assassinate Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Opening statements in her trial could begin as early as Tuesday. Stewart, who maintains her innocence, could face up to 45 years in prison if convicted. "I have to hope that Iâll be brave and carry the fight on from the prison if I have to," she said in a recent interview. "They want to make me into a traitor, and Iâll just fight forever."
I don't care, as long as you do it from jug. Actually, I do care...
Stewart, 64, defended Abdel-Rahman when he was convicted in 1995 of plotting to bomb the United Nations, FBI headquarters in New York and two tunnels and a bridge linking New Jersey to New York City. While in prison, Abdel-Rahman allegedly used Stewart to funnel messages to followers in violation of special rules aimed at preventing him from communicating with the outside world. It is the first major terrorism trial in Manhattan since the 2001 attacks, and will take place just blocks from the World Trade Center site. For the last two years, Stewart has defended her actions as part of her sworn duties as a lawyer. She said she worries that fears of terrorism will sidetrack jurors, particularly if prosecutors "wrap themselves up in the flag and say, âCome with us and weâll save you.â"
Oh, we certainly wouldn't want anybody wrapping themselves in the flag, would we?
Stewart, a native New Yorker, became a political activist in 1962, shaken by injustices she saw working as a teacher in Harlem. As a lawyer, she has represented controversial clients, ranging from the Black Panthers to Mafia figures. At trial, she said she will concede two points prosecutors allege: that she helped the sheik say publicly what he thought about a cease-fire in the Middle East, and that she distracted guards who tried to overhear conversations with the sheik. She said lawyers commonly try to prevent jail guards from listening to private conversations. She felt a special obligation to let the blind sheik know when others were eavesdropping. "I think what will come out at the trial is that what we were talking about was completely innocuous," Stewart said.
"Oh, it's nothing, really!"
After his 1993 arrest, prosecutors say, Abdel-Rahman urged followers to rescue him and to kill Americans "wherever you find them."
"See? Now, what could be more innocuous than that?"
On Nov. 17, 1997, six assassins killed 58 foreign tourists and four Egyptians at an archaeological site in Luxor, Egypt. The terrorists left behind leaflets calling for Abdel-Rahmanâs release and supporting the Islamic Group, an international terrorist organization based in Egypt. Prosecutors also accuse Stewart of releasing a statement in 2000 that quoted Abdel-Rahman as withdrawing his support for a cease-fire proposed by some group leaders who wanted to win the release of jailed associates. The government alleges the statement could have triggered violence. Stewart said the sheik believed the cease-fire needed to be debated in public, hoping for demonstrations that would lead to a peaceful solution. Stewart said she has tried to calm her six grown children about the trial. "I said, âYou just have to understand at this point in my life, where would I rather be than fighting this kind of a fight against this government?â"
How about a nice vacation in Egypt? You could see the pyramids, if you don't get killed...
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/20/2004 1:14:50 AM ||
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Can't she like be killed or something for being a stinking traitor? Come on folks, this ain't beanbag.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:19 Comments ||
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She reproduced? That's frightening.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 1:38 Comments ||
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Once upon a time we took sedition seriously in this country. We will need to do so again and soon!
#4
Ah, when I saw the headline I thought, "I hope that's Lynne Stewart." Check out this interview with Stewart in Monthly Review, particularly this gem:
Day: Let's say you were part of a government that you actually trusted and supported, and your country held political prisoners. At what point would you think monitoring and controlling these people was acceptable?
Stewart: I'm such a strange amalgam of old-line things and new-line things. I don't have any problem with Mao or Stalin or the Vietnamese leaders or certainly Fidel locking up people they see as dangerous. Because so often, dissidence has been used by the greater powers to undermine a people's revolution. The CIA pays a thousand people and cuts them loose, and they will undermine any revolution in the name of freedom of speech.
Got that? It's perfectly OK for leftist governments to lock up dissidents, because they're paid CIA agitators.
#5
Andrew McCarthy was the prosecuter against the Blind Shiek. The Defense was given access to classified material as part of discovery. Copies of much of that materials was found at AQ bases in the Sudan and Afghanistan. Stewart certainly is guilty as hell. This is an excellent example of why captured terrosits should not be prosecuted in the regular American courts. McCarthy recommends military tribunals. I recommend refusing to grant quarter to terrorists.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/21/2004 1:23 Comments ||
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Backlash over the beheading of a U.S. contractor in Saudi Arabia was as clear as a sign in the town where he was born. "Stamp out Islam," read a cardboard sign that also depicted a hand-drawn boot over a crescent and star. Phil Galasso posted it on a utility pole near his house in Eagleswood Township. "Iâm getting a little fed up with the mindless violence against civilians who had nothing to do with the war in the Middle East," Galasso said Sunday. He called Islam a "vile, bigoted faith" that subjugates women and uses force to spread its message. Authorities had not received any reports of violence against the areaâs small Muslim population since Paul M. Johnson Jr. was killed by Muslim extremists Friday, but anger in the community was evident, not just over the terrorists but also their religion.
"Last night I wasnât a racist but today I feel racism towards Islamic beliefs," read a white laminated sign hung on the mailbox of the house next to that of Johnsonâs sister, Donna Mayeux, minutes south of Eagleswood Township in Little Egg Harbor Township. "Last night Islamics had a chance to speak up for Paul Johnson but today itâs too late," the sign read. "Islamics better wake up and start thinking about tomorrow." The owner of the house where the sign was hung, Danny Pomponio, took it down Sunday morning and said he didnât know who had put it up. He added that he didnât know anyone in town who felt that way.
About 100 miles north of Eagleswood Township in Paterson, about 25 people gathered Saturday at a rally where Arabs and Muslims condemned Johnsonâs killing. Aref Assaf, president of the New Jersey chapter of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, urged Americans not to "castigate the entire community for the acts of a few." Joe Giberson, a police detective in nearby Stafford Township, said he was dismayed when he saw news reports of the sign in Little Egg Harbor. "I hope itâs not the feelings of the people. We canât be the same way like what happened to Mr. Johnson," Giberson said.
A minister at the church where Mayeux worships was among those urging tolerance Sunday. Pastor Gene Huber noted Johnsonâs familyâs grief and struggle in the face of cruelty, but said turning to faith would "enable them to become champions of grace in a world of wickedness." Mayeux did not attend the service at the nondenominational Greentree Ministries Church, about 30 minutes south of her home. The family has remained in seclusion since Johnson was kidnapped just over a week ago. Senior Pastor Kyle Huber, Gene Huberâs son, who has assisted the family throughout the ordeal, said they are "doing well in what is something no one can be prepared for."
#1
"Last night I wasnât a racist but today I feel racism towards Islamic beliefs,"
Umm.. sorry but you still are not a racist. Islam isn't a race but a religion. Am I the only once who is sick and tired of hearing that not 'tolerating' radical Islam is racist?
#2
I hope more people get the message that this is what's in store for the world if we don't stop the fanatics here and now.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/20/2004 19:34 Comments ||
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"Last night Islamics had a chance to speak up for Paul Johnson but today itâs too late," the sign read. "Islamics better wake up and start thinking about tomorrow."
That about sums it up. The Muslim community had a chance to condemn the kidnapping and threats of death but only a few took it. I do not want to condemn the many for the actions of the few, so let us say that I do not trust Islamic people. There is no basis of trust. When there is, then all will be hunky dory. Call it a survival instinct.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 19:54 Comments ||
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Am I the only once who is sick and tired of hearing that not 'tolerating' radical Islam is racist?
No.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/20/2004 19:55 Comments ||
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REad carefully.
Firstly note that the rally, attended by 25, count them, 25, that condemned the killing was 100 miles north of the community where the TWO SIGNS were hung. An attempt to conflate the "small Muslim population" 100 miles away with the typical feeble rally? We point out, you decide.
Also note that it is the reporter, not the Pastor, who claims the pastor urged tolerance. There's no quote, merely a statement that God's grace would help them in the face of their tragedy. I'm sure the liberal reporter or his equally liberal editor decided that that was good enough to declare it a call for tolerance, but to me, that's not close.
The sign hung on Danny Pomponio's mailbox was Two thirds right and two thirds questionable. Only liberal hypocrites would take issue with feeling racism for Islamic beliefs, then they have no problem practicing their bigotry against those who adopt Christian beliefs. But it's squirrely, because beliefs don't have skin color. Right on about today being too late to speak up for Paul Johnson. The last sentence is too vague, and thus open to vicious interpretations. Better to say, "Islamics should prepare themselves today to speak up tomorrow".
#6
Amid anger over beheading, U.S. minister pleads for tolerance
Like any theory, it looks better on paper than it works in reality. Believing that turning to faith will "enable them to become champions of grace in a world of wickedness" isn't going to stop militant Islam. Much to the contrary, since they subvert Western freedom of religious practice to their own illicit ends.
Islamic militants are quite successfully polarizing world opinion regarding Islam. They neglect to remember who holds the nuclear weapons which may be necessary to simply eradicate an enemy who will not reform or moderate their assaults.
#7
Rob and CrazyFool, I'm not as "crazy" about it, but I agree with you all.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/20/2004 20:43 Comments ||
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The problem is not so much Islam as it is a bunch of sick bastards that are hiding behind religion to feed their own delusions of importance. The terrorists are the same sort of people that Himmler recruited into the Gestapo and that through the years have flocked to organizations that needed souless ghouls to torture men, women, and children for amusement. History shows us the only solution is to hunt them down and kill them all.
On the other hand, the tolerance for childish outbursts and claims that everything they touch is holy is wearing very thin. Much more of this and the next terrorist that shoots from a mosque is going be ushered to meet God's judgement in a flash of light as the mosque vaporizes around him.
#9
Isn't Islam a faith and political ideology? With in our own country we have Muslims that do not speak out against the actions of their Islamic Soldiers. This, to this day boggles my mind. Could you imagine if some Christians murdered in "God's" name and danced around a butchered human body? Do you not think there would be global out rage? Or a Jooooooo dancing around some paleo?
If that small Mooslims community were true Americans, should they not be saying something about what happened to there neighbor? Are we supposed to ignore the truth of what goes on day after day and let this cancer of denial eat at our core as a nation? Our voices being suppressed by political correctness? Does anyone think for a minute American Mooslims care what happens to their infidel neighbors. Islam. I am growing so frustrated with this PC attitude regarding Islam and my country.
#10
I am growing so frustrated with this PC attitude regarding Islam and my country.
Permit me to remind you and all the folks back home that it is not just the ridiculous influence of PC (read: Orwellian "newspeak") mentality that breeds this. Consider how the White House actually came out in favor of Moqtada Sadr being quietly co-opted into the Iraqi political process, despite our own military commanders declaring that this terrorist Islamic cleric must face apprehension.
Zealots of every stripe and their constant overemphasis upon religiosity instead of actual freedom are the real problem right now. Few people seem to realize this.
#11
The problem is not so much Islam as it is a bunch of sick bastards that are hiding behind religion to feed their own delusions of importance.
That's true to a point as it's always the boots on the ground the implement the goals of the ideology they follow but it's not entirely accurate. Pretty much everything these asshats are doing is sanctioned verbatim in the Qur'an. The rub lies in the fact that much of it is proscribed by the Qur'an as well. Therein lies the real problem: Islam is so self-contradictory that it's always going to be subject to interpretations ranging from pacifist to utterly malignant and evil. No one's hiding behind Islam, they're merely finding within it things that are actually there.
Isn't Islam a faith and political ideology? Far more actually. It seeks to control religion, governance, warfare, economics, and nearly every other facet of life/society imaginable. I don't think we'll ever see sincere heartfelt condemnation of Islamist terrorists by a significant majority of the Muslim world because a Muslim's highest duty seems to be to Islam and their fellow Muslims no matter the circumstance. Don't get me wrong, we're going to hear torrents of words, but when the chips are finally down I believe the overwhelming majority of Muslims will stand with the enemy.
#13
Sadly, I think I've resigned myself to there being at least two more mass death attacks in the US before people have had enough.
One more won't do it because the Democrats and the media will go into overdrive to blame Bush for both inciting these animals by fighting back and also for not "doing enough" to protect us.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/20/2004 23:11 Comments ||
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Vandals broke windows of an Islamic center in a Tampa suburb and then scrawled the words "Kill All Muslims" on the walls inside, Islamic officials said Saturday. The vandalism at the Community Education Center in Lutz was discovered Friday, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. The graffiti, written in marker and crayon, also included a derogatory message about Allah.
Luckily, nobody flew a plane into it...
Locked donation boxes and locked file cabinets were also broken into or damaged, CAIRFlorida spokesman Ahmed Bedier said. He said the damage was not extensive, but the messages were intimidating to people who use the community center.
Not as intimidating as cutting somebody's head off, of course...
"They donât want to be victims of hate crimes, they donât have anything to do with things that are happening overseas."
"Yeah! Paleostine means nuttin' to us! Nuttin', I tells yez!"
The FBI has been asked to investigate the vandalism as a possible hate crime, he said. The FBI did not return a phone message Saturday.
Everybody's busy hunting cut-throats in Soddy Arabia...
The building is a cultural and education center that offers weekend classes, Bedier said. It also has a prayer hall, but it is not a full-time mosque. "With the recent increase of violence in Iraq and the killing of an American civilian in Saudi Arabia, the Islamic community in Florida is concerned about a possible anti-Muslim backlash," said Altaf Ali, executive director of CAIR-Florida. About 35,000 Muslims live in the Tampa Bay area, according to the group. A taste of their own medicine and a preview of times to come for muslims in America.
I'm against vandalism on principle. If it belongs to somebody else, leave it the hell alone. On the other hand, I find it almost comforting that there really is an American street, and it's cheesed at the idea of having Americans' heads cut off simply because they're Americans. The idea that "they donât have anything to do with things that are happening overseas" sounds pretty hollow, coming from the stomping grounds of Sami al-Arian and his brother-in-law â the current head of Islamic Jihad...
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
06/20/2004 6:55:44 AM ||
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"CAIR officials invite Muslims across the US to begin an intensive self-reflection process to address the question 'Why do they hate us?' CAIR officials themselves could offer no apparent reasons."
Posted by: NYT Editor ||
06/20/2004 9:51 Comments ||
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#2
"With the recent increase of violence in Iraq and the killing of an American civilian in Saudi Arabia, the Islamic community in Florida is concerned about a possible anti-Muslim backlash,"
Mr Ali ought to thank his lucky stars he lives in such a civilised country. Noone wandering the streets of Tampa, asking people their religion and gutting them if they answer wrongly. Perhaps he ought to reflect on that.
I do believe that Western civilisation is just a veneer, and a very thin one at that, over a core of blue-steel destructive potential. Mr Ali had better hope that the veneer holds. I'm reminded of the Second World War, which had a 'phony' aspect for both England and America, with England deliberately *not* bombing German cities in the first few months of the war, but just a few short years later no quarter was given, and entire cities such as Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne and Tokyo were firebombed with the sole intention of causing as much death and destruction as possible.
This is what's at stake here and instead of worrying about a "possible anti-Muslim backlash" (really, does some vandalism compare against beheadings!), Mr Ali really ought to be figuring out how to convince the West that Islam can be reformed - he'd better do it fast too.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
06/20/2004 10:02 Comments ||
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#3
I'm not "cool" with this, as Mr Lucky might say, but the worm has turned. I expect this to become commonplace as frustration mounts. The outstanding question to be answered is the 'Zoids - will they be stupid enough to continue or will Nayef get a clue. Doh! Nah, it's when, instead of if.
#4
Maybe the Muslims need to be protected from the violent 'Merkins. Perhaps we should put them where they'll be safe. Manzanar, anyone?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/20/2004 10:21 Comments ||
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#5
Big deal. I don't care that it happened.
I don't even care if more moslem public buildings are vandalized (I'm aware that this may make me unpopular with some Rantburgers). They have it coming.
(And I used to be a liberal.)
BTW: Has the moslem community in Florida officially denounced Islamic terrorism? the beheadings? the mistreatment of moslem women? the Sudan attacks? the dancing and prancing around charred American bodies in Iraq? the Towers? the thousands of fatwas and edicts against the West? the terrorist cells operating in America and Europe? Anybody turn in anybody lately? Their dear friend Abu, next door, who keeps ordering lawn fertilizer for his urban flat?
Didn't think so.
Any marches going on out there by moslems in support of America? Any reports/interviews with the local/national newspaper and media outlets telling us they're Americans first, and that they will stand by their country?
Thought not.
They're just a bunch of pagan "allah" worshipers bitching and moaning that some of their stuff got messed with--and calling on OUR system of goverment to protect them from their own self-created consequences! (surprise, surprise--direct to ya' from the culture of blame)
If they're so worried about hate crimes, I suggest they clean house. And when they want to publically apologize for the beheading of Paul Johnson, by their fellow moslems, (especially in the light of the apology made by our President to the entire moslem world regarding Abu Gharib), I'll start to consider feeling bad that their place was roughed up a little. 'Till then . . . (crickets chirping)
Hey: I wonder if the Johnson's are having a happy Father's Day.
#6
ex-lib - I have an automatic response when action is taken against anyone other than a perp. It's that evil 'Merkin upbringing, I guess. You can take from that what you want and toss the bits that don't measure up. I have the feeling that, soon enough, I'll wear a Mona Lisa smile when I recall such Pollyanna notions.
I understand and, as I have posted before on RB, appreciate righteous indignation and passion. Indeed, I'm sure Johnson's Family is NOT having a nice Father's Day. And that makes your point truly sting. Thx.
#7
Actually, given the HUGE amount of recent "Hate crimes" that turn out to be committed by the supposed victims, I'm not sure I believe it was done by anyone but the center's own people. I think if we were going to be seeing this kind of behavior out of the public, it'd of been done right after 9/11. So in this case, I think it was done, like so many others, by the 'victims' themselves.
#8
I had that same thought. I didn't mention it out of a sense of mistaken politeness.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 11:32 Comments ||
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#9
I'd love to know how much cash this place collects for "charities". And what sort of "education" people get inside it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/20/2004 11:40 Comments ||
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#10
Silentbrick: Yeah, that's another one of their strategies. Definitely wouldn't put it past Islamics to play the intrigue card. OTOH, people may be getting fed up. OTOH, run-of-the-mill hooligans might simply be noticing an opportunity to do what they'd do anyway.
But if it's a genuine reaction--i.e., people are getting fed up--I'm sticking to my original post (#5).
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:04 Comments ||
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#13
"They have it coming."
Oh, that so very nice "they". How many times I've heard it.
Reminded me a bit of the type of people who justify the attacks on Jewish cemeteries and the like, because Jewish communities don't oppose Israel's policies/settlements whatever.
And just a little bit of the type of people who justify attacks against civilians because they don't like the group they belong to, not anything personally done or undone.
Ah, twenty centuries of stony sleep...
"telling us they're Americans first,"
Not sure too many truly faithful Christians would pass (or like) that test, if you asked them if they are Christians first or Americans first.
Reading through this thread evokes a lot of mixed emotions. I've already mentioned my (obvious) predictions that backlash against Muslims will mount with continuing Islamic atrocities.
Speaking as a capitalist, the destruction of private property cannot be condoned, it is antithetical to civil rights. However, there are strong and justified perceptions that a significant percentage of the Muslim community, here in America and especially abroad, is being less than forthright about its declared agenda and the intended means of achieving those ends.
With each terrorist atrocity, mutilation and murder my own personal sympathy account balance continues to approach zero. I can only assume that many less worldly people have already depleted their own reserves. We can all be sure that the curve is not asymptotic, it will null at some point, it is only a matter of time and continued offense.
I still do not see within the Islamic community, here or abroad, any sort of persuasive and concerted effort that would serve as sufficient renouncement of either terrorism or desire for universal sharia law. The glaring lack of these basic declarations may well prove to be Islam's own self-imposed death knell.
A modest proposal:
If Islamic organizations want to maintain operations in American cities, they would be well advised to open their books (and doors) to scrutiny by the local community. Full transparency is one of the few gestures I can imagine that would be able to assuage the doubts and suspicions which Islamist duplicity has rightfully inspired in so many Western people.
Should Muslim organizations prove unable to do such a thing, they will merely invite further attacks (however wrong) like the one in this thread's lead article. While I cannot possibly condone such violence, neither will I be surprised by its continued increase as ever greater numbers of people become fed up with the torrent of lies and deceit that spew from Islamic centers around the world. Suffice to say that the Johnson family probably finds itself among those ranks already.
#16
Aris: you prove against yourself and use "they" in what, I'm sure you would consider (if it weren't you saying it) an "unfair" way. (I'm remembering your diatribes against the Greek government/Greek church intermeddlings in private life in your part of the world.) Do you yourself think of every single Greek school teacher as a separate individual every time? Do you think of every legislator, every government official, as a separate individual every time?
Of course you don't. While some individuals may stick out in your mind as being exceptions, you talk about people you disagree with as "they."
My use of "they" is more to the point. I have heard of only one very poorly attended demonstration against terrorism. And it wasn't in Tampa. "Their" silence is damning, Aris. And another thing: it's the Moslems who are at WAR with us. We're in a war here. In this context , (a wartime context) the moslems should say something if they like it here, support America, and disagree with moslem terrorism/warmongering. Otherwise, they should move back "home" and join the cause there, the cause that they are silently supporting here--unless of course, they are actually, clandestinely supporting the Islamic war effort against us here by staying here.
In effect, you are arguing that no expressions of goodwill or sympathy or solidarity need come from moslems in this country--they can just sit back and take over t his country for Islam, because Islam is what they believe in, right?
If for some reason Christians, per se, were at war with the United States, AS Christians, BASED on Christianity, PROMOTED by Christians, SUPPORTED by Christians, FUNDED by Christians, etc., and these "Christians" said nothing, as American troops fought for other "Christians," in a war fostered and carried out by "Christian" terrorists, I would conclude that the "Christians" in America were in agreement with the "Christian" terrorists waging the war against America.
And if people started attacking their public buildings, and I was on the side of the Americans against the "Christians" supporting terrorists, I would say "they" (the terrorist-supporting "Christians") had it coming.
Iâm certain you are projecting onto these silent moslems, your own hurt feelings over being personally slighted and disparaged, and disrespected, by certain "theys" in your own life. So let me ask you a question. How would you feel if moslems, because they are moslems--moslems funded, supported, and promoted by moslems--made war on you directly--if they began singling out people of your origin and country? And what if "they" lived next door to you, and said/did nothing as your countrymen died trying to protect what you believed in? Might you be a bit miffed?
Knowing you, Aris, you'd be absolutely OUTRAGED. If you're going to be angry at me, look to yourself, and what you might do in the same situation, first. These Islamics donât support your values any more than they support the values of democracy this country adheres to. âTheyâ live HERE, Aris, and if they don't say or do something in support of the United States, I must assume they have allied themselves with the "theys" of Islamic Fascism.
Finally, you are out of touch with what's going on in the United States--understably. You donât live here. Moslems here and in the UK are using Islam, and the freedoms we provide for them to practice their religion, as a smokescreen for political goals of taking over the world (IF a distinction can even be made between the religion and the goal).
Look out, Aris. "They" may be coming after you next.
#17
ex-lib> This isn't just about some building being vandalized, a fact you might or might not care that much about, given how outraged you feel towards the type of people prone to using it.
This is also about this vandalisation including the text "Kill all Muslims". At this point I think that your indirect support of the vandalization becomes, quite possibly unintentionally, an indirect support of the *message*.
As for supporting America, I'm sure that many of these Muslims pay their taxes, which do help USA build its army to be used in the war against Islamofascism.
And if they are law-abiding tax-paying citizens, I don't think that any other "declaration of loyalty" needs be made, such as "we are Americans first, Christians/Muslims second".
More vocality of their opposition to terrorism would be desirable, sure, but not everyone is politics-oriented, and not everyone is willing to stick his head out. Most people just *vote* and pay their taxes, they don't become politicians.
#18
A lot of good comments, people. Atrocities like the beheadings of Nick Berg and Paul Johnson will harden the positions of Americans toward radical Islam (and Islam itself). The very apparant lack of condemnation of the actions of radical Islam sends a very clear message to the American public as a whole that the majority of American Muslims are Muslims first and Americans a distant second. Every atrocity will harden this position. After 9-11 the Americans gave Muslims the benefit of the doubt, but after almost 3 years, the silence on the part of the Muslims is deafening and American patience has run out. President Bush gave it the old college try and came up empty, also.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#19
#16it's the Moslems who are at WAR with us.
I hope no one forgets this one simple fact. America is fighting a defensive battle against terrorism. Militant Islam has chosen to attack us and we will defend ourselves.
ex-lib, I heartily commend your willingness to calmly spell out your position without resorting to any personal rancor. Your above post was spot-on in many respects, especially the following:
Moslems here and in the UK are using Islam, and the freedoms we provide for them to practice their religion, as a smokescreen for political goals of taking over the world (IF a distinction can even be made between the religion and the goal).
This is why my own previous post noted the importance of immediate and complete transparency within all Islamic organizations. Without it, militant Islam will continue to taint how all Muslims are perceived. The thundering silence coming from within Islam's community only makes this more imperative.
If Muslims as a whole remain mute on this issue, others will raise their voices in more fierce condemnation of terrorist treachery than that of Islam itself. Those voices will very likely be much less particular about distinguishing who among Islam's ranks are the real offenders. If Muslims do not decry terrorism louder than those outside their faith, they will have little valid defense against such accusations.
#20
Vandals are cowards and scum, they should be in jail. We had a case like this in Lubbock a couple of months ago, someone defaced the local mosque. It turned out not to be outraged patriots, or an anti-media resistance cell, it was a group of illiterate teenage hooligans.
One policeman told me that this gang did not know the difference between Muslims and Jews and would probably have defaced the local synagogue if they had known how to find it.
Muslims and Muslim facilities will not be the prime targets if someone who truly understand the situation decides to resort to extra-legal action of some kind.
In some ways, the relationship between the Islamofascists and the media/academic/multicult axis is the opposite of what it seems; and it is the Islamos who are the useful idiots.
Muslims (they) are muslims first and then whatever nationality they decide to take advantage of comes a distant second. This behaviour is not limited to the US. Take Venezuela for example. This country is at the brink of a civil war or of becoming another dictatorship. What do "Venezuelan" muslims have to say about the fate of the country were they were born and raised? NOTHING! I joined a venezuelan muslim group to see if they were discussing the situation there. Guess what? NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH about the present crisis. Main topic of conversation in that group is always palestine, Iraq, and the rest of the muslim world. Ditto about the yahoo group for Venezuelans residing in Saudi Arabia. The only time they participate in this group is to bitch about the States or whatever other country they perceive as "victimizing" their muslim brothers in this planet.
#23
The more we know, the more we distrust...muslims were welcomed in this country by Americans who are most tolerant and respectful of all faiths, creeds, etc. Our hospitality has been rammed up our....by our "muslim brethren". Their islamic schools in this country teach lies and hate about Jews and Christians. Read "Mercy to Mankind" and "What Islam is All About". Two textbooks targeted to the under 13year old age group.
Posted by: jawa ||
06/20/2004 18:09 Comments ||
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#24
Do not put it past the enemy to destory their own buliding and then blame Americans.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 18:14 Comments ||
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#25
The IRS laws governing non-profit 501C-3 foundations should be reviewed when itcomes to these dummy front groups for the promotion of A global jihad takeover.
It's one thing for the jihadees to gain funding from their OPEC & narco providers but it's a whole other situation when the American government (tax payers) allows them to set up shop in the form of so-called 'Islamic centers', which are nothing but cover to engage in fund raising for jihadic terrorism, plus get away with their evil deeds TAX FREE!
The enemy is mocking us and laughing all the way to the nearest bank!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 18:21 Comments ||
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#26
This is also about this vandalisation including the text "Kill all Muslims"
In an obvious effort to be totally unlike my Muslim compatriots, I have to say that THIS IS WRONG; the vandalism, and the message is wrong. This probably puts me in agreement with Aris, shocker of all shockers. A more effective means of conveying the message we all want conveyed, would have been to plant a big sign in front of the Mosque, reading "Death to Al Qeada". This would surely ruffle the same feathers as in the vandalism case, and probably garner more support.
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/20/2004 19:47 Comments ||
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#27
I'm with Rafael: This was a clumsy way to register displeasure. Probably done by regular vandals believing the liberal refain that america is a hotbed of intolerance (except themselves, of course), and so thinking that the blame would be placed elsewhere. Real protestors ought to be more creative than that, like hanging a banner from lampposts that would have required calling the fire department or the utility to take down.
Hey Aris, just a question. You got any links to Islamic or skinhead discussion groups where they discuss antisemiitic vandalism against synagogues in a positive fashion, and where YOU post similar disapproving entries? I.e. Care to present REAL proof of your impartiality?
#28
"You got any links to Islamic or skinhead discussion groups where they discuss antisemitic vandalism against synagogues in a positive fashion, and where YOU post similar disapproving entries?"
Currently Rantburg is the only foreign political forum I participate in, and given my limited time this month it's the only political forum period. And I've never participated in Islamic or skinhead discussion groups.
"Care to present REAL proof of your impartiality?"
Who said anything about me being impartial? I'm the opposite: I'm consistently biased against murder, terrorism and bigotry. :-)
And no, actually, I don't care to submit to your examination of me, which I find offensive, but I will regardless.
#29
A mosque in Brooklyn that funneled money to Islamist terror groups has,since 9/11,not suffered so much as a broken window.There has not been a SINGLE documented case of post 9/11 revenge murder in the US.(If you mention the case in Texas where the killer mistakenly killed a Sikh who was wearing a turban,you will merely highlight the lack of other such attacks in the US against Muslims)
#30
I agree with Frank G. This is a put up job. Real vandals don't use crayons, they use sledgehammers and spray paint. Also, "Kill all Muslims" doesn't ring true. I can think of many things that I might write encouraging the demise of terrorists and their enablers, but "Kill all Muslims" is too lame to be one of them. Of course I do admire their cleverness in forgoing the celebratory gunfire.
The European Union has hardened its position on Iran amid mounting frustration with the fruits of its bid to "engage" the Islamic republic on its nuclear programme, human rights and terrorism, diplomats say. It was the European Unionâs "big three" -- Britain, France and Germany -- who on Friday pushed through a tough resolution at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that blasted Iran for failing to honour its pledge to come clean. The EU heavyweights had brokered a deal in October for Iran to cooperate with the UN watchdog, but in a sign of growing impatience have now edged closer to the position of the United States -- which stands by its accusation that Iranâs clerical rulers are seeking nuclear weapons and not just electricity.
Y'think that part about being accepted as a nuclear power might have tipped them off?
The resolution repeats a call by IAEA director general Mohamed ElBaradei "that it is essential for the integrity and credibility of the inspection process to bring these issues to a close within the next few months." And it "deplores... that Iranâs cooperation has not been as full, timely and proactive as it should have been."
Did he mention that they've gotten almost unbearably belligerent since rigging the last election? Do you think that might be a sign they're racing to get the Big Boom sometime soon?
Iran has responded by toughening its stance, raising the threat of resuming uranium enrichment and accusing the Europeans of betrayal.
That's what I said. But did they mention it in the report?
On the human rights issue, relations are not going well either. The Irish EU presidency Sunday issued a blistering statement on the regimeâs record, saying the 25-member bloc remained "gravely concerned" at the persistence of widespread abuses despite several rounds of lengthy talks.
"Ardeshir, I'm getting blisters reading this report!"
"Just put some cream on them and don't worry about it, Ali. We've almost got the bomb."
"The European Union continues to be gravely concerned at the continued and numerous violations of human rights in Iran," said a statement released by the Irish embassy here.
I'm gravely concerned about lugging around this lard gut, too, but somehow I never seem to do anything about it...
"These include unequal rights for women; the use of torture in prisons and other places of detention, and a culture of impunity for perpetrators." It also pointed to "the lack of an independent judiciary, the use of the death penalty, as well as reports of the continued use of amputations and other cruel punishments; a continuing campaign against journalists and others who seek to exercise their freedom of opinion and expression, a flawed electoral process which impedes the democratic choice of the Iranian people, and discrimination on religious grounds." An EU delegation and Iranian officials had met here on Monday and Tuesday, the fourth time the two sides have sat down since December 2002. The statement said the EU delegation had "raised the cases of 40 prisoners of conscience at present in detention in Iran, who should be released immediately and definitively."
"The Medes and the Persians suggested they blow out an orifice..."
It did not say how the Iranians responded to the demand, but the tone of the statement appeared to back up comments from diplomats that the latest talks had netted "no concrete results".
"Uhhh... Which orifice, Esteemed Ayatollah?"
"You'll think of one."
Last week, a senior official in the hardline judiciary even denied the presence of any political prisoners in Iranian jails. Diplomats also said the meeting here -- the first since the effective ouster of reformists from parliament by religious conservatives -- also failed to fix a date for a fifth round of talks.
"We'll get back to you on that."
"We started off with critical dialogue; then we moved onto constructive dialogue; and now we seem to be in a phase of monologue," was the wry spin on EU policy towards Iran given by one senior Tehran-based European diplomat.
It's called spinning your wheels. It takes a mighty big ego not to realize when you're treated with contempt.
As well as engaging Iran on the nuclear issue and human rights, the EU is also looking for progress in Iranâs record on terrorism and a change in its stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I'm waiting for a phone call from Patty Ann Brown, too...
Tehranâs official position is that Israel should be destroyed. On terrorism, various arms of Iranâs security apparatus are suspected of harbouring al-Qaeda members, promoting anti-coalition violence in Iraq and financing attacks by Palestinian militants. The European Union has made progress on these matters a condition for signing a proposed trade and cooperation agreement. The tone among diplomats now is that for Iran such a deal is as elusive as ever, even if they are -- for the time being -- stopping short of suggesting the monologue dialogue is about to grind to a halt.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 9:35:03 PM ||
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#1
"We started off with critical dialogue; then we moved onto constructive dialogue; and now we seem to be in a phase of monologue,"
Does this sound familar to anyone? Like Saddam and the UN and the weapons inspections?
#2
The Black Turbans feel that they are close to a NUKE or they are bluffing and blowing huge amounts of exhaust out their posterior orifices.
Same situation as Iraq. Being responsible means assuming the Nuke option. Being deluded means assuming the exhaust option. Choices, choices.
Clue: do not leave the decision to the EU or the UN. They may be hazardous to your health.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 22:00 Comments ||
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#3
The EU heavyweights had brokered a deal in October...but in a sign of growing impatience have now edged closer to the position of the United States.
I expect Chiraq to come to the rescue and pull them back closer to the Iranian position quickly. This is only a temporary setback. Nothing to see, move along.
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/20/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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#4
Euros getting tough on Iran?
Only after the second nuke goes off in Europe. And Iran claims responsibility. And the Euros spend a couple of years blaming the US & Israel, and demanding that we (but not Iran) compensate them for their losses and send our troops to fight their war of revenge (but it can't hurt anyone, and must be nuanced).
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 22:50 Comments ||
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#5
Only after the second nuke goes off in Europe. And Iran claims responsibility. And the Euros spend a couple of years blaming the US & Israel, and demanding that we (but not Iran) compensate them for their losses and send our troops to fight their war of revenge (but it can't hurt anyone, and must be nuanced).
Barbara, at your earliest convenience, please pencil me in to assist with your next love child.
What did they send a memo with rough edges to inflict paper cuts?
Posted by: Stephen ||
06/20/2004 23:34 Comments ||
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#7
"Euros getting tough on Iran?"
Well, I guess they'll probably send the next strongly worded letter in German instead of French. All that guttural "ich" and "und" stuff sounds soooo much more intimidating...
"I'm waiting for a phone call from Patty Ann Brown, too..."
Yeah, Patty Ann's a hottie, but Rita Cosby won my heart when she ambushed that phony pseudoreligious sack of shit Pat Robertson. He'd just announced his retirement from being head of CBN (I think) & was expecting a respectful softball interview. Not our Rita, though...she started hitting him with questions about his sleazy business dealings with Charles Taylor, the ex-Liberian strongman. By the end of the interview, Rita had him squirming and spluttering incoherently...a thing of beauty, as is the fair Rita herself :-)
Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) ||
06/20/2004 23:48 Comments ||
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#8
Rita Cosby won my heart when she ambushed that phony pseudoreligious sack of shit Pat Robertson. He'd just announced his retirement from being head of CBN (I think) & was expecting a respectful softball interview. Not our Rita, though...she started hitting him with questions about his sleazy business dealings with Charles Taylor, the ex-Liberian strongman. By the end of the interview, Rita had him squirming and spluttering incoherently...a thing of beauty, as is the fair Rita herself
Ricky bin Ricardo (gotta love that name), your description of Pat "9-11 = divine vengeance" Robertson's wrigglefest almost makes me wish I'd turned on my television during the last three years.
#9
It's time for the Eurocrates to begin to seek out new sources of imported oil, since Iran may soon develope export problems with their supertankers exiting the Strait of Hormuz.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/21/2004 21:49 Comments ||
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Nobody suffers like they do...
About 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon, eyed with suspicion by a host country that deprives them of basic rights and proper care, continue to long to return home. "The Palestinian refugees stress their right to return, which should not be given up, not even at the expense of having one day an independent Palestinian state," said Suheil Natour, from the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
I often completely forget about the DFLP, since it's practically inactive in Paleostine proper. It's still influential among the Lebanese Paleos, though...
More than half of the refugees have been living in squalid camps scattered across Lebanon since the 1948 establishment of the state of Israel that caused a mass exodus of Palestinians to neighboring countries. The Palestinians have had a bloody history in Lebanon, as they participated in many chapters of the country's 1975-1990 civil war and continue to witness inter-Palestinian shootouts armed clashes from time to time. Today, the refugee camps are manned by Palestinian militants and remain off limits to Lebanese police and the army -- a fact that prompted many to condemn the presence of such "islands outside the law".
AKA "festering sores on the body politick"...
The annual report of the United Nations Relief Works Agency for Palestinian refugees for 2003 said 57 percent of the 395,000 Palestinians registered in Lebanon lived in camps — the highest proportion of refugees living in camps compared to any other host country. According to an UNRWA study conducted last year, the rate of infant mortality among Palestinians in Lebanon declined from 35 per 1,000 live births in 1997 to 19.2 per 1,000 births. But the figure was still higher than the rate in the West Bank which stood at 15.3 per 1,000 births. Palestinians are viewed with suspicion in Lebanon where many, particularly Christians, fear the mainly Muslim community would settle permanently in Lebanon and upset the country's delicate confessional and political balance.
... and also bring with them their propensity for violence.
The fears are reflected in a series of discriminatory measures against the refugees, who remain in much worse conditions than Palestinians in other host countries such as neighboring Syria and Jordan. Lebanon bans Palestinian refugees from practicing more than 72 professions, ranging from lawyers and doctors to taxi drivers.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:29:22 PM ||
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Stop, stop ... you're ripping my heart out! Didn't Lebanon and Jordan both divviy up and absorb some of the Palestinian territory allocated in parellel with the formation of Israel?
That Palestinian "refugees" (which they aren't) in Lebanon are causing such endless trouble is a direct result of Arab on Arab treachery. They richly deserve each other and the outside world should pay close attention to how these issues are resolved.
Israel has had the good sense to begin closing and finalizing its borders. It can only be hoped that their withdrawal from the running sore of this regional conflict will further highlight how surrounding nations have protracted Palestinian misery for their own political gain.
It would be so very fitting to see these scheming connivers have the brunt of Palestinian rage turned upon them in an orgy of incessant strife and terrorist mass murder. I do not think the violence-prone Palestinians will take pause to carefully consider whom they vent their Seething Frustration⢠upon. They haven't in the past and neighboring Arab countries have done nothing but encourage their terrorist mayhem. How nice to think that they will all get the chance to swallow a dose of their own putrid medicine. I hope they choke!
#2
replay of Black September? They can't seethe forever without sploding!
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 13:32 Comments ||
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#3
Lebanon bans Palestinian refugees from practicing more than 72 professions, ranging from lawyers and doctors to taxi drivers.
That's because THEY DON'T WANT THE PALEOS. (Especially now that they've seen the Paleos up close & personal for all these years.) But they want Israel to absorb milllions of these whiney, "poor-little-me" clowns.
Figures.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 19:30 Comments ||
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#4
I'm sure the displaced Siliesian Germans also long to return 'home'. I guess if you are white and western you don't get any sympathy. At least their 'brothers' actually took them in and integrated them into their cultural society.
Posted by: Don ||
06/20/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:10 ||
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Boy, that'll devastate 'em...
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:11 Comments ||
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#2
41 of 71 signed it...don't they have a majority rule kinda law there
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:25 Comments ||
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Frank...my thoughts exactly.
The Belgian Senate has clarified that the signing of a petition by some Belgian senators in support of the Iranian terrorist group MKO was a private initiative which does not express the official position of the chamber.
"It is not the senate as a whole adopting the text of the petition. It was a private initiative of some senators," an information official at the senate, speaking on condition of anonymity, told IRNA.
The official noted that not all the senators [just the majority 41 out of the 71] had signed the petition which called on the EU to remove the MKO from its list of terrorist groups.
Well...I'm glad they've stopped pretending.
Posted by: B ||
06/20/2004 13:03 Comments ||
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#3
Medes and Persians Will Not Accept Restrictions On Nuclear Activities: Official
And similarly, the world should "not accept restrictions" on how fast, hard and thoroughly they destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. A stray shot that goes wild and "accidentally" takes out the mullahs wouldn't break my heart either.
Hassan Rowhani, the secretary of the Supreme National Security Council (SNSC), said here Saturday that Iran will not tolerate any comments on its territorial integrity. Rowhani told reporters that European countries have always emphasized the need to resolve the misunderstanding between Iran and the United Arab Emirates over three Iranian islands in the Persian Gulf. He stressed that Abu Musa and the Greater and Lesser Tunbs are Iranian territory, adding that Europeans have never claimed they belong to the UAE. If Europeans had ever claimed that the three islands belonged to the UAE, Iran would have responded in a serious manner, he said.
"We'da murderlized 'em! Hrowf! Hrowf!"
He referred to Iran-UAE relations as good, and added that the two sides intend to resolve the recent turmoil in the Persian Gulf caused by disputes between Iranian and UAE seagoing vessels. Rowhani also said that Iran is prepared to hold consultations with the UAE to discuss ways to implement their 1971 bilateral agreement.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:03:53 PM ||
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This is Big Dog Syndrome and not really different from the Spratleys and China's decision that it was big enough to get away with snarfing up strategic islands.
Saudi security forces appeared to act expeditiously when Friday night, June 18, hours after the decapitated body of the American engineer Paul Johnson was found in Riyadh, they killed his purported murderer, Abdulaziz al-Muqrin in a shoot-out in the capital. Not surprisingly, Al Qaeda quickly denied the death of the most prominent of their Saudi leaders. In a statement released over their affiliated Web sites, they accused the Saudis of lying.
In the execution of Paul Johnson, Osama bin Ladenâs group took its savagery to an unprecedented extreme. After performing this atrocity, they published three horrendous photographs â one showing a terrorist holding up the severed head of his victim, the second displaying the knife he used and the third showing the head placed on the back of the dead man. The act was performed, according to the statement, âin the name of Fallujah Brigade of al Qaeda,â which instantly conjured up a previous outrage against Americans in Iraq.
This symbolic linkage of events is endemic to the Middle East and strategically significant. The disgust and horror voiced by the US president George W. Bush and vice president Dick Cheney were exactly what al Qaeda wanted and will encourage them in their belief that they can keep going.
The Saudis are certainly not stopping them. A single figure is enough to give the lie to the Saudi governmentâs oft-repeated claim that its security forces are truly cracking down on al Qaedaâs operations. DEBKAfile reveals that since the September 11 attacks in the United States, no more than 1,500 Saudis have been detained on their home turf, i.e. an average of 500 per year.
That the Islamist terrorists feel little restraint was demonstrated in the two strikes they carried out last month. For 12 to 18 hours, the terrorists breezed past roadblocks and guard units in the kingdomâs most sensitive oil centers - the Red Sea town of Yanbu on May 2 and the Gulf town of Khobar (adjacent to the key oil city of Dahran where National Guards special units protect the oil installations) on May 29. They were not challenged or stopped.
Osama bin Ladenâs followers are getting away with far too much. Only this week, President Bush said he saw no reason to bar rebel Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadrâs entry into mainstream Iraq politics â despite his violent insurrection and his public murder of a fellow Shiite cleric. Forgotten was General Mark Kimmitâs declaration less than two months ago: âWeâll either capture him or kill him. Itâs as simple as that.â
Neither is it lost on al Qaeda that, to this day, the Palestinian bombers who murdered three CIA agents in northern Gaza on October 15, 2003, walk free â even though US intelligence knows their identities and whereabouts. Israel appears to be taking a leaf out of Washingtonâs book. Gaza Strip terrorists never gave up all the remains of the six Israeli soldiers blown up in the Zeitun district of Gaza City on May 11. At the time, defense minister Shaul Mofaz and IDF chief of staff, Gen. Moshe Ayalon, vowed furiously never to rest until every single part was recovered. The winds bringing in the new disengagement plan appear to have blown the vows away.
But, according to DEBKAfileâs exclusive intelligence and counter-terror sources, the prime factor behind the spiraling savagery of al Qaedaâs overt war against the United States is the hidden climax reached in the last two weeks in an undercover showdown, which has brought the Americans some breakthroughs. The Islamist organizations chiefs in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia credited these breakthroughs with the penetration by US intelligence of some of their key cells.
In Afghanistan, US forces uncovered al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts in the southern and southeastern provinces of Zabul and Oruzgan. In a large battle last week at De Chopan, they managed to kill scores of al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. In Pakistan, American agents foiled the hijack of a US airliner from Karachi airport. In Saudi Arabia, they hit on secret smuggling routes through which the terrorists imported weapons from Yemen. In raids on two Yemeni border villages, Fifa and Huba, they seized masses of ground-air missiles and explosives. On June 3, al Qaeda operatives and another weapons cache were rounded up in a raid on Haraj, a small town in the Hijaz province of western Saudi Arabia.
Al Qaedaâs supreme command struck back fast: one, they created bogus cells in all three countries to lead the American penetration agents and special forces operatives away from the real operational units. The speed of their response points to the availability of a large manpower pool and high organizational skills. Knowing where to plant the fake cells also betrays inside knowledge of the tactical workings of American intelligence bodies.
Two, they switched from Saudi to American targets in the kingdom. In ten days, al Qaeda terrorists killed three Americans in Riyadh - last week, they released a tape showing Jewish American Vinnel employee Robert Jacob being shot near his home and the killers approaching to fire at point blank range. Last Saturday, Kenneth Scroggs was tailed to his home and murdered. After Paul Johnson, Al Qaeda is unlikely to draw the line.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 12:37:00 AM ||
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Osama bin Ladenâs followers are getting away with far too much. Only this week, President Bush said he saw no reason to bar rebel Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadrâs entry into mainstream Iraq politics â despite his violent insurrection and his public murder of a fellow Shiite cleric. Forgotten was General Mark Kimmitâs declaration less than two months ago: âWeâll either capture him or kill him. Itâs as simple as that.â
And you folks are worried about Kerry's crack habit.
#2
Mark:
Get ready to land on Mike Sylvester's crap-list, as a nominal "troll," for your supposed insolence in posting the following:
"Osama bin Ladenâs followers are getting away with far too much. Only this week, President Bush said he saw no reason to bar rebel Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadrâs entry into mainstream Iraq politics â despite his violent insurrection and his public murder of a fellow Shiite cleric. Forgotten was General Mark Kimmitâs declaration less than two months ago: âWeâll either capture him or kill him. Itâs as simple as that.â
I gave up on Bush the second he said "Islam is peace" on Sept. 16, 2001, and I began attacking him when slave-Powell pressured the Northern Alliance to surrender to a sham peace by armistice, in the suppressed Afghan-liberation. Bushies are attacking anyone who promotes a post-Bush' hardline agenda. Americans have yet to learn that you can only win a counter-terror war by targeting every Islamofascist on the face of the earth. And Bush-Powell won't do that, because it would threaten their Saudi retirement fund. Every time a Koranimal places a Road Side Bomb, with the complacency of the local savages, the 20 buildings nearest to the bomb site need to be demolished. The terror mosques need to be wiretapped and on any evidence of incitement, the entire congregation must to be napalmed. Any American Muslim who it is proven to legal certainty, has supported Islamofascist terror in any way, must be shot on sight.
#3
Hey Dog. I feel your pain, bite my lip. But I don't follow your Saudi retirement plan. Those guys fear nothing as goes their retirement. So please be less off the back.
But I have always been on board with an aggressive attack on islam. Don't gve up on Bush. He's trying to fight this war without taking on all of islam. Thats a big deal. Think it through. Let the Prez do his thing. So far so good but nothing is perfect.
But, Dog, for once I'm with you, sort of, I have my own over the top ways about how to go about defeating our enemy! Seems to be working for the Israeli's too. But Bush is the closest thing we have to a Prez that is willing to go to war with the evil thing. So give a little as your ideas wont be in play, for now!
#5
.com - excellent picture, I have now downloaded it and have put it along with my other WoT images.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
06/20/2004 6:41 Comments ||
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What's up with this nonsense:
Osama bin Ladenâs group took its savagery to an unprecedented extreme . . . spiraling savagery . . .
Hijacking airplanes by cutting the throats of the flight crew, and flying them into office towers, killing three thousand people in one morning, isn't savage enough for you, DEBKA?
DBT, do you have any actual evidence for your Michael Moore/Al Gore talking points? (NB: for purpose of the previous sentence, the term "evidence" does not include Farenheit 911, whatreallyhappened.com, and anything published in the Arab News.)
Posted by: Mike ||
06/20/2004 8:49 Comments ||
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#7
Dog, lets see, its Sept 16 and you have two choices.
(1) WW2 solution. Tell the truth that Islam means Submission and that they started a war with the US. Start a draft to up the military numbers and declare war on America's Islamic Enemies (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, PLO, Lebenon, Afghanistan, and forces inside of a dozen other countries. The war would be long, brutal, and honest. Realize the world would be against your war from day 1 but do what has to be done anyway.
(2) The WOT Option. Declare Islam a Religion Of Peace to allow the few moderate Islamic states enough cover to clean their own houses. Go after the worst offenders one after another hoping to scare the others into not fighting, and hoping to draw the real scum out of the moderate states into a place of your choosing to fight them (Iraq). Realize that many in the world will support you, or partially support your conflict in the early stages, and by the later stages it may not matter.
Given the two choices I think I would choose option (2) as Bush did. It allows Islamic regimes the chance to clean up (as Libya did) and costs less American lives. It also avoids the draft and allows flexibility that might not be available with Option (1).
Iran is the only difference. If Iran gets a nuke, it will be clear that Option 1 was the way to go and we blew it. Otherwise I'm willing to give the folks the benefit of the doubt for not escallating everything to 11.
Dog's sentiments are understood in this post, but usually he just spouts anti-Bush crap, and doesn't seem to understand the complexities of world politics.
Last I heard, an actual poll revealed 67% Iraqi support (much higher in Shiite areas) for al-Sadr's Bisaji terrorists. And an informal poll revealed over 50% support for bin Laden in the Saud entity. And Bush-Powell won't write off these koranimals.
Smack your complacent FOX-heads, and think of the $120,000,000,000 wasted by Bush-Powell on the nation-building folly in Iraq, and think of nation-destruction. Hey, we'll still have the Kurds on-line to pick up the pieces. And less than half of Iraq territory has been explored for oil sources.
Bush-Powell kiss Taliban ass, again:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/FF18Ag02.html
Bush-Powell created both an Iraq power vacuum for the Wahabi-Khomenis, and an American power vacuum for the leftists.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FF18Ak01.html
#11
B:
You know, $120,000,000,000 would have bought a lot of real security, rather than the jeopardization that the creation of an Iraq power vacuum for Wahabis and Khomenis has engendered.
If you think that Bush-Powell Iraq will be a showcase for Middle East democracy, then you are a snake oil consumer. Now I know who sends money to those Nigerian scam artists.
#12
Aw now you've done it. You've gone and talked to it like it's a not a halfwit spew generator, let it into your home, and now it feels at home.
It never offers an alternative, a plan, or anything else except spew. It comes here for therapy, not to contribute - for not once has it ever done so. It's another tough-talking, no-walking, lump of disinformation DUng.
Sigh. Don't we have enough disingenuous dysfunctional TurdTrolls, already? Puhleeze, get a dog, cat, baby duck, anaconda, or crocodile if you want a pet. Sheesh!
#13
hey DBT, your leaving many threads unanswered elsewhere on this blog, does you doctor prescribe ritalin, for you short attention span theatre performances? If not, please seek medical attention, or offer an alternative solution. Or buy a brain, or does your hell plan not cover it?
Posted by: Comment Top ||
06/20/2004 14:17 Comments ||
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#14
Desperation speaks!
Rules:
1. Don't accept spin as truth.
2. Look for a factual basis, before accepting the statements of politicians.
3. Don't point the finger, because it makes others wonder what you are pointing away from.
4. If defending your beliefs causes desperation, then abandon said beliefs.
5. Before you try to be clever, remember the last time you attempted to match whits, and lost. 6. Ask yourselves why you write off Oil-Patch-George's enemies, but not the enemies of America whose asses he kisses.
#15
Dog Bites are you for health care for the pali people if its not faith based or delivered by Haliburton? What is your stance on Likud subzidized cruises for jaded Tanzim gentlemen? Are you aware that the one they call Fred man is a shape shifter?
#17
"Fred Man" is actually a nom-de-guerre for Steve Austin, the Six Million Dollar Man, of the Texas Manns.
Or was it Austria? I forget. Possibly Australia.
Anyway, Steve (in his capacity as Atrox Maximus of the Army of Steve) sometimes wears a wolf skin, leading to unfounded charges of Lycanthropy from certain LLL sources and plants. The theory is particularly popular among cabbages, for example, according to a recent poll conducted by Gardner's Politix Weekly...
From South Asia Analysis Group
.... Nek Muhammed and other tribal leaders were insisting that the only foreigners living in South Waziristan are the remnants of the Afghans, Chechens, Uighurs, Uzbecks and other Central Asians who had fought against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s and who had settled down in the area, married local women and raised their own families. They challenged Musharraf to produce a single Arab of Al Qaeda caught or killed by the Army in that area. Though Musharraf and his spokesmen have been claiming that during the three operations, they had killed or captured nearly a hundred dregs of Al Qaeda, till now they have not been able to produce even one of them in proof of their claims.
Faced with the recalcitrant tribal leaders on the one side and the US pressure on the other, the Army and the Air Force sent in reinforcements to the area since the beginning of this month and were planning to resume the military operations. After coming to know of the Armyâs plans, the tribals tried to preempt the Armyâs offensive on the night of June 8 by attacking a number of Army posts. After heavy fighting till June 14, the Army announced a ceasefire claiming that the dregs of Al Qaeda had been killed or captured and that the objectives of the operation had been achieved. But the tribals refused to observe the cease-fire and kept attacking military posts and convoys inflicting large casualties on the Security Forces. They were also reported to have captued an undisclosed number of military personnel, including some officers of the Special Services Group (SSG), a commando unit to which Musharraf himself originally belonged.
Nek Muhammad, who was fond of talking, had been giving interviews on his satellite telephone from his hide-out to the BBC radio and other foreign media channels. Taking advantage of this, his hide-out was pin-pointed and a missile strike made killing him and five others. While Musharraf and his spokesmen have been claiming that it was a hundred per cent Pakistani operation with no US involvement, eye-witnesses say that the missile which killed Nek was actually fired from a plane which flew into the Wana area from Afghanistan and went back to Afghanistan after firing the missile. Since March, there have been instances of US troops and surveillance aircraft intruding into this area from Afghanistan. After every such intrusion, Pakistan had been lodging a pro forma protest and the US offering a pro forma apology for an unintended intrusion. Well-informed sources in the para-military forces and Police deployed in the area say that Nek was actually killed by a missile fired from a Predator plane of the CIA.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/20/2004 11:16:13 PM ||
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We can only hope it's true, mostly because of the BBC connection. Perfect.
From Khilafah, crediting Haaretz
Israel operates hundreds of agents in the Kurdish areas in northern Iraq, according to a report published in the upcoming issue of The New Yorker magazine. In an interview to CNN on Sunday, reporter Seymour Hersh said that hundreds of Israelis, some of them Mossad agents, are operating in the region in order to collect information on Iranâs nuclear program and monitor events in Syria.
According to the report, Israel in the past has had many ties with the Kurds, which with the fall of Saddam Husseinâs regime are currently being renewed. Israel is not confident of the success of the American program for the stabilization of the country, the report says, and that is why it is interested in setting up independent connections in the region. Israelis operating in the region are also attempting to assist Kurds living in Syria, the report says.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/20/2004 10:57:01 PM ||
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... and this would be a bad thing WHY???
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/20/2004 23:11 Comments ||
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Remember, Hersh and his Donk allies are pushing the "it's the Jooooooos" line of Bush-attack.
#3
Hey, Sy. There's probably hundreds of Al Queda agents in the US. How about some stories on that, Mr. Investigative Journalist, or doesn't it fit the agenda?
Interrogation of some recently-arrested militants has revealed that ISI has re-opened militant training camps in large numbers in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) including Northern Areas (NA) and the Government is fearing heavy infiltration in the coming months. A 30-page Home Ministry document states that the largest militant camp was in Jungle-Mangal area where nearly 300 militants, mostly foreign mercenaries, were being trained followed by Elaq-e-Gher where 200 others were undergoing training, official sources said.
I think it's a habit, like biting your nails or using "like" as a verbal comma. Without running jihadi training camps Hafiz Saeed has no purpose in life...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 9:40:26 PM ||
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Sunday, June 20, 2004
The U.S. military has launched an intensive campaign to kill Abu Mussab Al Zarqawi.
What were they doing before?
U.S. officials said Central Command has concluded Al Zarqawi has sought refuge in the Sunni city of Falluja, west of Baghdad. The officials said U.S. military assets have been monitoring neighborhoods in the city for Al Zarqawi and his aides. Al Zarqawi has been termed the most lethal insurgent in Iraq. He has claimed responsibility for at least 25 suicide strikes against Iraqi and coalition targets in Baghdad and other cities. He was also believed to have carried out the suicide car bombing of an Iraqi military recruiting station in which 35 people were killed. On Saturday, a U.S. military jet fired at least two missiles into a Faluja neighborhood in an attack on a suspected Al Zarqawi stronghold, Middle East Newsline reported. At least 18 people were killed and two houses were destroyed. Officials did not say whether Al Zarqawi was one of the casualties. But they said the military believed that Al Zarqawi was in one of the buildings targeted.
Then he should be one of the casualties...
"Coalition forces conducted a strike on a known Zarqawi network safe house in southwest Faluja," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of coalition operations said on Saturday. "This operation employed precision weapons to target and destroy the safe house." The missile strike was the first significant coalition attack in Faluja since early June. U.S. troops left the city last month as part of a deal that paved the way for the deployment of an Iraqi security force. Officials said the military was conducting post-strike damage assessment from the missile strike in Faluja. They did not say whether or when the results would be announced.
My heinie's sore from sitting on the edge of my seat...
In Paris, Al Zarqawiâs key aide and toxin specialist was captured by French authorities after a search of nearly a year. The French Interior Ministry identified the detainee as Algerian national Said Aref, who was extradited to France from Syria last week.
Hadn't heard about that one...
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 6:53:13 PM ||
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If we really want to take Al Zarqawi, then we are going to have to take collateral casualties. I am sure that he surrounds himself with civilians: women, children, baby ducks, et al. This is the same situation as what Yassin did to Israel. We are going to have to announce that Al Z is a hazard to anyone's health that surrounds him. He must become a liability, rather than an asset. If we want him, we are going to have to be hard-nosed to get him, and take the heat afterword. Ball is in our court.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/20/2004 21:55 Comments ||
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Going after AlZ and Fallujah? Is it Christmas, already? And me without having done any shopping...
The last 2 sentences, about the AlZ aide Aref - needs some, uh, clarification... So French agents captured him in Syria, and then convinced Baby Assad to extradite him to France? Is that the untangled truth? Or is the reporter from PakiWakiLand? I can shout, don't hear you! Sheesh, what a mess.
#3
For some reason, I get the silly picture in my head of some Marine Colonel, having received a very explicit order to that effect, telling his Battalion to "Go Forth my children, go forth into Fallujah, and kill, kill for Kaliii!"
Okay, I did say that it was silly. Maybe it was the "Laughing Marines on Drugs" story a while back.
#4
Interesting, if lurid, stuff from my usually reliable source in Iraq. Word has it that coalition forces have learned of a coordinated insurgent plan for a series of massive go-for-broke suicide attack on the day of the handover or immediately before.
In a joint plan by all the various insurgent and terrorist factions, thousands of Tater-heads, Saddamites, and freelance jihadis of all stripes will launch themselves at US troops and installations in an all-out human wave assault. The objective will be to disrupt the handover, kill several hundred US troops in one day and, if possible, to completely overrun one or more major installations.
It will be the largest suicide attack since the Battle of Okinawa in 1945, and possibly the largest ever in one day.
#5
lesson? roadblocks with concrete barriers everywhere, shoot first
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/21/2004 22:38 Comments ||
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#6
Will they be preparing a special collectors edition of the video?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/21/2004 22:45 Comments ||
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It will be the largest suicide attack since the Battle of Okinawa in 1945, and possibly the largest ever in one day.
Have they been told how that ended?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/21/2004 22:51 Comments ||
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#8
SSSSShhhhhhhhh
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/21/2004 22:59 Comments ||
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#9
Great - gather them up where we can kill them much more quickly than hunting them down like rabbits.
Problem for them is that they are unaware of our surviellance capabilities - amny times we do no act when we could have, trust me on that. Additionally, the larger an op, the more likely serious leaks will compromise it. If you bring the weapons and ammo in with the people, coordinating the assault becomes very hard - every pone of these cowboys will go at thier own pace. If you stockpile, and then bring the people in earlier, sufficient numbers and weaponry to overrun a major installation will stand out quite readily.
Plus, assaulting a modern, dug-in US military unit, with air support and artillery woudl prove to be a different animal that the Muj had never seen before.
The shackles coming off of the King of Battles is enough to turn the assault in itself - 155mm FASCAM-AP (As opposed to AT) for instant area denial, smoke (we have thermals and they do not), and good ol' HE/Frag. And you can bet that they have the targerst registered already for differing scenarios, and its dialed in to the fire control computers, all set up for the 48hr 400m x 400m blocking minefields right where they need them.
A day after an American airstrike destroyed six homes in this flashpoint city, a senior Iraqi official said today that 23 of 26 people killed in the attack were foreign terrorists, including men from Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
The rest, of course, were innocent women, children, lovable old grampies with fuzzy beards and wry smiles, grannies who make marvelous felafel, puppies, kittens, baby ducks, fluffy bunnies, and nuns who were delivering much-needed medicine...
American officials had justified the strike on Saturday, the first major military action in Falluja since United States forces pulled out of the city in early May, by saying that the homes that were targeted were being used by agents of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. On Saturday, people pulling bodies out of the debris had said women and children were among the victims.
... along with lovable old grampies, etc., etc.
The Iraqi official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, acknowledged that three Iraqis were among those killed and that two Iraqis were injured, but did not provide further details. He said it was not clear if Mr. Zarqawi himself was inside the small concrete-block homes when they were smashed to rubble by three 500-pound bombs dropped from an American warplane. But he said that American intelligence was accurate and the homes did not house civilians but terrorists.
So there's still hope he's titzup?
"The Americans had very good information," the official said. "It was like trying to catch a sparrow. They had a small moment to catch the fighters in those houses and they did." The official said one reason why Falluja was relatively calm today, despite the potential for revenge killings or other strife, was because the cityâs residents had little love for the foreign terrorists.
"Nope. We never liked them, never joined the Party..."
Several residents agreed today. Their actions, or inactions, spoke even louder. There were no serious mortar attacks against American forces today, no fiery sermons at the mosques, no marches in the street. Instead, Falluja, a battered city that just weeks ago was the scene of some of the most intense urban combat in Iraq since the occupation began, was functioning normally, with police manning checkpoints, traffic flowing smoothly and boys selling roasted cashews on the sidewalk. "Fallujans are in no mood to fight," said Mahmood Shaker al-Falahee, a retired government official.
"Not when there's a good chance you'll eat a Hellfire..."
"We know people come from the outside to try to raise a conflict between us and the Americans. They come here because our borders are so open."
"It was all their fault! Really!"
As for the bomb strike, Mr. Falahee was almost dismissive. "Something like this," he said, "will be passed and soon forgotten."
"Kinda like a bad plate of falafel, y'know?"
Some Falluja residents said today that the American air strike had broken the truce. "They gave us their word and they violated it," said Qasim Mohammed Abdul Satar, who sits on Fallujaâs shura council, a body of town elders. "In spite of this, the people of Falluja wonât breach the truce. But more trouble may come to the surface. Weâll see."
Well, which is it?
Falluja has been rife with mixed signals the past several weeks. Masked insurgents continue to operate openly in some quarters of town, even dispensing their own brand of Islamic justice, including an episode last month when four whiskey sellers were lashed with whips and paraded through the streets. At the same time, Marine commanders say there have been fewer attacks around the area and that a semblance of security is returning. Marine officers point to a successful, three-hour meeting they held in the center of town last week with Fallujaâs leaders, including some imams who had previously shunned them. "Iâm not sure whatâs going to happen in Falluja, or for that matter, the rest of Iraq," Col. Larry Brown said in a recent interview. "With the range of options being Jeffersonian democracy on one end and civil war on the other, weâre probably going to end up somewhere in the middle."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 9:09:56 PM ||
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What? The US was right and it WAS a bad guy safehouse? But. But. What about all the baby ducks and bunnies? Do we still get to mark the handles of our guns - y'know, where we keep track of all the civilians we've killed and war crimes committed? Wow, who'da thunk it? Bad guys in the house and the US got it right... *head shake*
#2
But. But. What about all the baby ducks and bunnies?
Don't worry. I'm sure the media, with $100 in small unmarked bills, can come up with 5-6 unemployed 'former guv'mint' workers who'll say there were dozens of baby ducks (Bunnies might cost another $5 each).
#5
"The Americans had very good information," the official said. "It was like trying to catch a sparrow. They had a small moment to catch the fighters in those houses and they did." The official said one reason why Falluja was relatively calm today, despite the potential for revenge killings or other strife, was because the cityâs residents had little love for the foreign terrorists.
Look's like maybe the locals are getting tired of being blown up by their Muslim brothers from foreign lands and might be giving them up?
And the cash will go a long way toward getting the right spin.
Yeah, from experience, it's amazing what a little monetary inducement (and the 'right' attitude) can accomplish over there. AT least it sounds like the fellows around Fallujah are putting it to good use.
#8
tu's onto something good... I'd follow-up with a bonus since the intel was 24K. It's not customary to get a deposit, do the work, then receive the remainder (bulk) of payment - in Arab countries they expect pre-payment. A bonus would certainly become a topic of interest among those with connections...
#9
I'm feeling reasonably warm and fuzzy about this operation. I hope all killed were deserving bad guys, but it does appear our side is operating at an impressive level. Such a strike implies the sort of ground intel we'd only have with an effective agent network. Which in turn implies we're operating in the city, thru Fallujah Brigade, police, ICRC, whatever -- pretty effectively.
And though I like Dan's comments, as ever, step back and check out this article -- it's quite reasonable for the NYT. The most hostile observer quoted sounds fairly ambivalent -- "we'll see." And the other remarks by locals reflect exactly the attitude we're looking for -- resignation, no love lost for the jihadis, no burning desire to take on the USMC.
#10
The Fallujah Brigade has been out of the news lately. Could this be some of their doing? They were supposed to root out the bad guys and get the heavy weapons, none of which seems to be happening. I still am a little queasy about reposing any trust in the FB.
The U.S. military handed security responsibility back to local leaders in the nearby town of Buhriz on Sunday after hammering Sunni Muslim insurgents in three days of clashes that killed 19 militants and one U.S. soldier. The deal calls for American troops to pull back, and for Iraqi police to step in and establish security in the town of 40,000, U.S. military officials said. Similar arrangements have been reached in Najaf, Fallujah and elsewhere in Iraq where the Americans have stepped aside and allowed Iraqi forces to assume greater security roles after clashes with insurgents. That could become the pattern across much of the country as the U.S.-run coalition hands over sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government June 30. "Our goal here in 10 days will be the full sovereignty here in Iraq," said Col. Dana J.H. Pittard, the commander of the 3rd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division. "If we cannot trust the police for maintaining control of order, then who can I trust?"
Under the plan, local security forces will conduct patrols and keep insurgents at bay while the Americans will hang back and conduct only sporadic patrols. The Americans reserved the right to return in force should their patrols be fired upon, Pittard said. The deal was struck after hours of talks in the nearby city of Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of the capital, Baghdad. "We have been given guarantees by the chief of police and the local leaders that they will maintain order and we will respect that," Pittard told reporters at a news conference to announce the deal.
The clashes in Buhriz began Wednesday when insurgents fired on U.S. troops after they had wrapped up a meeting with the mayor to discuss reconstruction projects. Two days of intense fighting that followed killed at least 19 insurgents and one U.S. soldier, Pittard said. Gen. Walid Abdul-Salaam, chief of police for the Diyala province, said 13 civilians were killed and 34 wounded. Casualty tolls are difficult to determine, as fighters fearing arrest by U.S. authorities often do not take their wounded or dead to local hospitals. Pittard accused Saddam Husseinâs sympathizers of leading the insurgency in the area. "The vast majority of the insurgents are the former regime elements," he said. But he added that members of the Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawiâs network are known to be operating in the area. "Diyala is like a way station to his network," Pittard said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 4:44:46 PM ||
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Now this approach might work. This is the town where they chose a position, carried in triple ammo loadouts, and dared the local mujjies to "Come an get it"... The 1ID completely crushed the zippers in head-to-head battle and sustained it until there were no more to kill. Then hand it back to the locals and see if they can handle the dregs, if any. Come back if the bugs show up in numbers. Rinse. Repeat.
This account differs from those previously posted or that I've read elsewhere by declaring one American dead - all other reports I've seen did not say that. In fact, it may be a mistake as there was one American killed in the Baghdad area during this battle. Anyone able to clarify this death occurred in Buhriz - when and who he was? I'm getting the usual confabualtion of events stories when googling this. You know the ones I mean - where they toss 3-5 separate events into one "story" - just so they can be certain to include the US casualties and civilian claims...
#2
I like this template, as summarized by you, .com. Draw the glorious resistance out so they can be harvested wholesale. I've been a little surprised we haven't been doing more of this, both in smaller towns and even with convoys hardened and discreetly accompanied trolling for an ambush. I'm especially puzzled that, unlike last November and I believe one other time, there's not been much in the way of a pre-emptive offensive to disrupt/destroy bad guys in the run-up to June 30.
An Iraqi group has threatened in a videotape to behead a South Korean hostage if Seoul does not end cooperation with U.S. occupying authorities, Arabic television station Al Jazeera says. Masked men holding guns were shown standing around the man. A banner in the background named the group as Jamaâat al-Tawhid and Jihad, the name of the militant group led by al Qaeda operative in Iraq Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 4:36:33 PM ||
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begin: islam-maniac style babble
The fool don't realize that with each execution they only strenghten the resolve of their enemies. Their actions serve only to recruit more and more supporters in the war against Militant Islam - the ground beneath their feet will shake, and the streets of their towns and cities will turn to rivers of blood! The deaths of our martyrs will only strenghten our cause. Blah, blah, blah....
Among the known senior G.S.P.C. leaders still at large is Mokhtar Belmokhtar, who operates in southern Algeria and in the Sahara. Mr. Hattab, meanwhile, is believed to be dead, killed either by rival members of his group last year or in a firefight with Chadian forces in March. Following that battle, in which more than a dozen G.S.P.C. members were killed, a Chadian rebel group reported that it had seized 17 G.S.P.C. members, including Mr. Saofi, who is wanted for leading an ambush that killed 43 Algerian soldiers last year and for kidnapping 32 European tourists in the Sahara. The Chadian rebel group, known by its French initials M.D.J.T., has been negotiating Mr. Saofiâs handover to Algerian forces since then. Earlier this month, the two sides met in the desert of northern Niger but despite initial reports that the handover had taken place, negotiations continue.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 3:43:53 PM ||
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Looks like that nomination's by process of elimination, doesn't it?
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 15:48 Comments ||
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The commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks has been given new evidence that "a very prominent member" of al Qaeda served as an officer in Saddam Husseinâs militia, a panel member said on Sunday. Republican commissioner John Lehman told NBCâs "Meet the Press" program that the new intelligence, if proven true, buttresses claims by the Bush administration of ties between Iraq and the militant network believed responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America. Lehman said the information, contained in "captured documents," was obtained after the commission report was written that stated there was no evidence of a "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda. "Some of these documents indicate that (there was) at least one officer of Saddamâs Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of al Qaeda," Lehman said. "That still has to be confirmed, but the vice president (Dick Cheney) was right when he said that he may have things that we donât yet have," said Lehman, a former Navy secretary. "And we are now in the process of getting this latest intelligence."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 2:09:06 PM ||
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hmmmmm I'm sure the NY Times will make this tomorrow's lede...riggghhhtt
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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Check out the Reuters story linked here. Not that it's the first time (can anyone say "imminent threat"?), but the blatant assertion of falsehoods, routinely, in "news" reports never ceases to shock. The Reuters "story" blandly claims that Cheney asserted AQ involvement in 9/11. Check this out:
"Some officials, including Cheney, have suggested an Iraqi role in the Sept. 11 attacks carried out by al Qaeda. Bush later ruled out that possibility, but many Americans still believe it, and critics have accused the administration of misleading the public."
Every single element of that paragraph is false, or misleading. The final clause is completely misleading, in that it implies the administration cultivated public belief in an Iraqi role in 9/11. The first public poll showing this belief was taken before any official had made any comment of any kind related to the subject.
The major media have now crossed a line. Today's accounts of the 9/11 Commission figures' TV appearances generally repeat the gross error claiming that the Commission's staff report contradicts administration claims pre-Iraq. The co-chairmen tried to correct this media lie immediately after it appeared -- apparently to no avail. My favorite today was one wire report that twisted the co-chairmen's latest statements -- saying Iran & Pakistan had more AQ involvement than Iraq -- to portray them as buttressing the non-existent commission "conflict" with the administration.
I thought media distortion was out of control two years ago. It's now beyond "out of control," whatever the term for that might be. Scary.
This is the AP version of the story regarding Sahraouiâs departure from the gene pool ...
The death of Nabil Sahraoui, head of the Salafist Group for Call and Combat, marked a major victory for Algerian government efforts to suppress Islamic militant violence and left his armed extremist organization with no clear leader. Sahraoui and three of his lieutenants were killed in a "vast anti-terrorist operation" that continues in the Kabylie region east of the capital, Algiers, the army general staff said in a statement. Sahraoui is not known to have been behind attacks outside Algeria. But bin Ladenâs network has made inroads into Algeria. A Yemeni al-Qaeda lieutenant, Emad Abdelwahid Ahmed Alwan, was killed in a September 2002 gunbattle about 270 miles east of Algiers. Authorities said he had met with Salafists and was managing operations for al-Qaeda in North Africa. Sahraouiâs death left open the possibility of a leadership fight within the Salafists.
The Salafistsâ actual strength is unknown, although experts believe the group is small, with several hundred fighters, and is fragmented into autonomous brigades. "The influence of the GSPC has been steadily eroded by security initiatives within Algeria, in the pan-Sahara region and of course within Europe," said Magnus Ranstorp, director of the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrews University in Scotland. Sahraouiâs death "will leave a little bit of a vacuum within the GSPC, particularly internally within Algeria, and may make it difficult for them to resuscitate," he said in a telephone interview.
"Ummm... Mahmoud! Think about this. How many leaders we had in the past five years?"
"Uh... I dunno. I lost track. Five? Six?"
"Where are they now?"
"Lessee, here... Uhhh... Dead... Dead... Dead... That one got killed, too... Uhhh... All dead."
"'At's what I thought. Tell ya what. I'm sorry I called you an apostate. You can be in charge."
Sahraoui had a reputation for ruthlessness, stemming partly from a campaign of killings he ran against a now-defunct insurgent group, the Islamic Salvation Army, after it called a cease-fire with the Algerian government in 1997. The daily Liberte said a forensic police team identified Sahraouiâs body. The newspaper Le Soir said nearly 3,000 soldiers were involved in the sweep in wooded mountains in the Bejaia region of Kabylie, some 160 miles east of Algiers. Sahraoui took over from longtime leader Hassan Hattab, who reportedly was viewed as too moderate by some Salafists.
"Hassan, y'r too moderate. It's time you retired. Mahmoud! Shoot him!"
Under Hattab, the Salafists distrusted outsiders and kept al-Qaeda at arms length, focusing instead on their domestic agenda of combating the government. Another Salafist leader, Amari Saifi, is in the hands of a rebel group in Chad that captured him and wants ransom from Algeria or the West, according to officials in a country involved in the situation.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 2:57:23 PM ||
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Huh. I guess this means the check didn't clear?
Or maybe they used electronic fund transfers, but from a country where the speed of light is relatively slow?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/20/2004 20:59 Comments ||
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Israeli warplanes attacked a suspected Hezbollah outpost in southern Lebanon on Sunday after the guerrilla group fired anti-aircraft shells at an army base in northern Israel, the army said. The army said it destroyed the Hezbollah outpost used to fire the shells, which caused no injuries. There was no immediate report on any casualties from the airstrike. The Haaretz newspaper reported the shells were fired shortly after Israeli fighters overflew Lebanon. The army accused Hezbollah of using the excuse of anti-aircraft fire to terrorize towns in northern Israel. "The state of Israel is determined not to allow attacks from Lebanese territory and to hold the governments of Lebanon and Syria responsible for these actions," the army said in a statement.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 3:28:16 PM ||
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The arrests of two men apparently planning to place a bomb in a girlâs school in northern Afghanistan have led to authorities obtaining vital information on the killing of 11 Chinese workers earlier this month. Officials say the men were arrested on Saturday at Fatimatul Zahra school in Kunduz city, north of Kabul. Kunduz governor, Mahommed Omar says the pair were detained when the bomb they were allegedly attempting to plant exploded prematurely. Governor Omar says one of the men has provided information which will lead police to those behind the attack on the Chinese workers, killed after tents they were sleeping in were sprayed with gunfire. He says both men have also confessed that the men came to Kunduz city armed with 21 bombs.
BAGHDAD (AFP) - The United States and Iraq are close to a deal to transfer ousted dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) into Iraqi legal custody although he will remain under the lock and key of US wardens, a coalition source told AFP. Saddam will be under Iraq's legal jurisdiction, but the US-led coalition would still guard the former head of state, the source said. "This is the arrangement we're close to reaching," the source said, adding: "This is probably what's going to happen."
I like this a lot. We'll guard Sammy until the Iraqis get their baby ducks in a row for the trial.
US overseer Paul Bremer broached the possibility of such an arrangement Tuesday after US President George W. Bush expressed fears that the Iraqis could not guarantee Saddam stayed behind bars. "If they ask for him, which I have every reason to believe they will ... we'll turn him over," Bremer told the Washington Post, adding that "legal custody and physical custody can be two separate things."
Iraq's Justice Minister Malek Duhan al-Hassan said he believed America would turn over the toppled dictator who once struck fear into the hearts of millions, but the US-led coalition's help was necessary. "Saddam Hussein will be under our responsibility after June 30 but we can ask the coalition to provide additional support to guard him for an undetermined period of time," said the justice minister. "We are ready to guarantee the protection of Saddam Hussein, but given the difficult security situation and if we feel we have the need, we can cooperate on this question with the coalition," Hassan said. "But this is for us to decide," the minister said, reflecting the desire for his government to take charge of the deposed president, blamed for many of the deaths and disappearances of hundreds of thousands during the Baath party's 35-years of authoritarian rule.
Sounds like they decided.
Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin said the US-led coalition and Iraq needed to forge a partnership not just on Saddam but also on the 4,000-5,000 prisoners they US-dominated forces have said they would detain. "The security dossier, including the detention of prisoners, is the object of a partnership between us and the coalition," he said.
Iraqi spokesman Gurgis Sada said he believed the Americans wanted to be sure Saddam was in a secure facility after Bush said Tuesday he needed to know the jailed dictator would not be released. "I think the Americans wanted assurances, by their guarantees, that all details will be taken care of before transfer," he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/20/2004 1:58:18 PM ||
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Enough american troops to make it a very noisy and public proposition to release the monster, eh? No dead-of-night transports to Syria for Sammy?
#2
Actually, this is a good idea: Legally turn over Saddam to the Iraquis, who will claim that they can't ensure his security, and so need the Merkins to guard him.
And protect him from all the people who hate him and would pay to kill him.
The death toll in the missile strike that killed renegade tribal militant and former Taleban commander Nek Mohammad has risen to eight, Pakistan military officials said yesterday. In addition to Nek Mohammad and four tribesmen, three foreign suspects also died in Thursday nightâs attack near Wana, the main town in the frontier region of South Waziristan, military spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan said. âEight people were killed in the attack including Nek and three foreigners,â Sultan told AFP. Officials said a 15-minute satellite phone call by Nek helped pinpoint the tribal leaderâs home where he was hiding.
Good idea. Compromise your intel source. You'll never need it again, will you?
I dunno, we've been playing the same sat phone trick on 'em for a while.
A laser-guided missile was then fired from an aircraft which struck the house. âHe was talking for a good 15 minutes to someone on his satellite phone when the missile was launched,â an intelligence official said. âWe are trying to determine whom he was talking to,â the official said.
Qazi? Fazl? Or Ayman?
Nek was in the house of tribal leader Sher Zaman, whose two sons also died along with two of Nekâs local allies. Sultan did not disclose the identities or nationalities of the foreign militants killed with Nek.
Uzbeks? Chechens? Soddies? The usual run of riff-raff, I'd guess...
Military officials have described Nekâs killing as a major success in the ongoing drive to flush Al-Qaeda-linked foreign militants out of the region. The situation in South Waziristan is fully under the control of security forces, Sultan said when asked if there were any fears of a tribal backlash over the killing. Nek had been a Taleban commander during the hard-line militiaâs five-year rule in Afghanistan and trained Central Asian militants at a garrison just north of Kabul.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:41:39 PM ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 13:27 ||
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The sooner the better, plus since the Sudan fosters jihad, additional U.S/U.K. military action to stop the Sudan's Islamists from slaughtering the Christians in the oil rich southern portion of the Sudan, bordering south eastern Chad.
Islam requires profits through crude oil sales to continue their insane goals. Cut off the oil and cut down on the international Islamic rooted terrorism.
Since Chad was under the French up until 1960 French troops should be assisting but do not count on it this time around.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 19:04 Comments ||
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Turkey has dropped its opposition to a federal structure in neighbouring Iraq guaranteeing broad autonomy for the countryâs Kurds, a senior Iraqi Kurdish leader was quoted as saying on Saturday. Ankara has long been concerned that self-rule for the Kurds of northern Iraq could re-ignite secessionist violence among its own Kurdish population in southeastern Turkey. But Masoud Barzani, leader of one of the two main Iraqi Kurdish parties, said a visiting delegation of high-level Turkish officials had recently signalled a more relaxed attitude towards the issue of Kurdish autonomy. â(They) told us Turkey was not opposed to the granting of federal status to Iraqi Kurdistan within the structure of a unified Iraq,â NTV television quoted Barzani as saying. Barzani said Turkey and Iraqâs other neighbours with their own Kurdish population, Iran and Syria, had to accept that his people had a right to self-determination. âThese countries have to realise the Kurds are a people with certain rights... They must respond with understanding towards these rights and demonstrate a civilised, democratic approach. Thus their own national unity can be strengthened,â he said. âIf these rights are disregarded and if the Kurds are not treated in a civilised manner, the problems will increase.â
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:21:03 PM ||
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Indian soldiers shot and killed at least five suspected rebels who they claimed were trying to sneak into Indian-held Kashmir on Satiurday. The guerillas were caught in the Maschil area, near the Line of Control, an army officer said on condition of anonymity. Maschil is a mountainous area nearly 120 kilometers (75 miles) north of Srinagar. Also on Saturday, suspected rebels lobbed a grenade at a passing security forcesâ truck in Kulgam, a village nearly 70 km south of Srinagar. It missed the target and exploded on a road, wounding three passers-by, police said. In the nearby village of Tral, an army captain and a soldier were wounded in a shootout with suspected rebels, a police officer said on condition of anonymity.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:20:03 PM ||
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I assume they're Shiites, of course...
A senior doctor working at the National Institute of Cardio-Vascular Diseases (NIVCD), Dr Akmal, and his brother Dr Arshad were kidnapped on Friday night. They were on way to the NICVD from their house in Al-Falah, Malir, when they were kidnapped together with their car, which was later found abandoned near Native Jetty bridge on M T Khan Road. Their father lodged an FIR at Jackson police station. The police declined to give other details, saying the Anti-violent Crime Cell was investigating the case. In a press release issued on Saturday night, the Pakistan Islamic Medical Association (PIMA), Karachi, demanded of the government to immediately recover the two doctors. They said the two doctors had no enmity against anyone. They also demanded of the government to provide doctors with security, as they had been vulnerable for long. PIMA would decide its future course of action at a meeting on Monday.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 1:14:15 PM ||
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"We're glad he's dead. We never liked him anyway!"
"Yeah, us neither! And he smelled funny, too!"
"A bad egg. We're really much better off without him!"
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:57:39 PM ||
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Taliban rebels attacked a government office in troubled southern Afghanistan, sparking a gunfight with government troops which left seven people dead, police said on Saturday. The gunfight occurred late Friday when 60 Taliban attacked a government office in Mizan, a town in Zabul province, 370 kilometres southwest of Kabul, said Zabul Deputy Police Chief Ghulam Jailiani said. Five attackers and two soldiers died in the two-hour clash, which ended when a US helicopter flew in and drove the Taliban away, Jailiani said. Three more of the 50 Afghan soldiers defending the office, which has been attacked repeatedly, were wounded and taken to an American base for treatment. Jailiani said authorities had recovered a satellite telephone, walkie-talkies and weapons left behind by the Taliban, who retreated to nearby mountains on foot.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:55:41 PM ||
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I'm sure Dire Revenge⢠is in the works somewhere... South Waziristan Agency was calm a day after the death of rebel leader Nek Muhammad in a missile attack on Friday. âThere has been no (violent) reaction to Nekâs death so far,â a tribal elder told Daily Times by phone from Kalosha. âThe day was very quiet,â he added. Military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan also reported that the area was calm and hoped, âThings are moving in the right direction.â
Not a big majority of tribal people were shocked by Nekâs killing.
"I always knew it was going to come to this some day," said an elderly lady who used to live next door.
Daily Times learnt this by interviewing a cross section of people via phone in Wana, Azam Warsak and Kalosha. âI would say that perhaps 40 percent people are in shock. Nek was a hero for these people. But wiser people also say whatever is happening in Waziristan is because of him,â said a tribal elder, requesting anonymity. His supporters were made to believe that Nek was âlike a tankâ and that the Pakistan Army was unlikely to eliminate him physically, he said. âI think Nekâs followers are in deep shock because a new dimension â the use of guided missiles â was added to the operation. There was no quick reaction on the first day after his burial because his followers were probably taking stock of the situation before launching a counter-strike,â a former Inter Services Intelligence official said. He said the government must be ready for any âadventureâ by Nekâs followers to avenge his death.
Intelligence sources said situation was being monitored closely. They said foreigners and Nekâs followers would stay quiet for some time. Sources said that wanted tribesman Muhammad Javed Karmazkhel might lead the post-Nek resistance. He is in his early 30s and regarded as âas good fighterâ like Nek.
For his sake, he'd better hope he's a little better than that.
Karmazkhel, said a pro-Nek tribesman, might prove to be real successor to âameerâ Nek. But the government appears to have hardened its stance to tackle foreign terrorists. On Saturday, the administration shifted key arrested elders from Waziristan to unknown places. Agencies add: âIf there is any backlash, we are prepared to deal with it,â Maj Gen Sultan told Reuters.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:49:19 PM ||
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Event: Bin Laden confirmed dead
Group:
Narrative: Is Osama no longer with us? Is he "pushing up daisy cutters," as Mark Steyn put it? Are his earthly remains decomposing at the bottom of a cave somewhere in Tora Bora? It sure seems that way, given that there has been no recent video of him, and no audio statement referring to anything that has happened in the last year with any specificity.
Window: 0 Months (6/20/2004)
Probability 75% entered by Mike on 9/24/2003
Probability 50% entered by tu3031 on 9/25/2003
Probability 75% entered by Fred on 9/25/2003
Probability 30% entered by Shipman on 9/26/2003
Probability 80% entered by Steve White on 9/27/2003
Probability 80% entered by R. McLeod on 10/1/2003
Probability 25% entered by Paul Moloney on 2/5/2004
Probability 100% entered by Anonymous on 3/24/2004
Probability 10% entered by Aris Katsaris on 4/16/2004
Probability 50% entered by BigEd on 6/8/2004
Overall opinion is Possible (58%)
Current opinion is Possible (58%)
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:47:33 PM ||
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What do I win? Was the one who thought it least likely. ;-)
#4
Will we ever get confirmation that Bin Laden is dead?
Even if he is dead?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/20/2004 13:15 Comments ||
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"O'sama bin laden to rest" -Mark Steyn
Posted by: an dalusian dog ||
06/20/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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#6
Fred, when can we start laying money down on these bets? I am very serious about that. The other betting sites are a bit lame in the current events bets you can choose. Also, how could anyone have called the outcome correctly by forecasting anything but the low or high percent? Wouldn't it be better to just ask for yes or no bets, then figure out a probabilty from that?
Police arrested 30 supporters of the slain Pakistan Peopleâs Party Parliamentarian (PPPP) leader Munawar Suharwardy in Karachi on Saturday for disturbing the peace in the city, an official said.
"Disturbing the peace" in Karachi? The mind boggles...
About 50 supporters of the late Suharwardy protested in front of the provincial legislature, chanting slogans against the government and demanding the arrest of his killers. Police arrested 30 of the opposition members and booked them for disturbing public peace, said police official Abdul Majid Dasti, adding that they could be detained for up to one month.
"Thirty days or thirty dollars! Next case!"
Parliamentarians hailing from opposition benches in the National Assembly and Senate on Saturday peacefully marched to the Parliament House to protest the killing of PPPP leader Munawar Suharwardy. The protest march was led by PPPP President Makhdoom Amin Fahim, Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal central leaders Liaquat Baloch and Hafiz Hussain Ahmad and Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz leader Tehmina Daultana. The lawmakers chanted slogans against the government for its failure to maintain law and order in Karachi. They were holding placards inscribed with slogans like âArrest the murderers of Shaheed Suharwardyâ, âRestore peace and security in Karachiâ and âNation wants halt to Wana operationâ.
... which aren't taking place in Karachi, are they?
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:42:46 PM ||
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The radical Lebanese Shiâite organization Hezbollah has been moving fighters to Iraq in recent months to battle American troops. According to American intelligence, the transfer has been carried out through Syria, following an Iranian initiative. The transit through Syrian territory is permitted by Damascus along its porous border with Iraq.
The Hezbollah fighters moving to Iraq are part of a broader force of pro-Iranian militants that operates in Iraq to destabilize the country and undermine the Americans there.
Analysts believe that the movement of the Hezbollah fighters to Iraq serves both Tehran and Damascus, which favor instability in Iraq for their own reasons.
Iran is eager to see the Hezbollah fighters establish operations in Iraq before a new regime is installed in Baghdad.
Still, there is no sign that Iran and its Lebanese surrogate are abandoning the friction along Lebanonâs border with Israel, which is still considered to be Hezbollahâs primary focus.
In its interim report, the Congressional bipartisan commission of inquiry into the events of 9/11 states that the cooperation between the Hezbollah and Al-Qaida is extensive.
American officials said recently that Syria has not seriously responded to American demands to seal its border with Iraq against the transit of "foreign fighters." According to U.S. sources, neither a letter to President Bashar Assad from Secretary of State Colin Powell nor the subsequent American decision to impose sanctions on Syria had the desired effect on Damascus.
On the other hand, Syria over the weekend did extradite a terrorist suspect to France. The man had come into Syrian territory from Iraq and is suspected of being a deputy of Al-Qaida operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
Intelligence sources note that the involvement of the Hezbollah in Iraq is restricted to operations in that country alone and does not include the movement of other radical Islamic elements for operations in southern Lebanon.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:39:39 PM ||
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Iraq - the terrorist flypaper. Works for me.
Posted by: B ||
06/20/2004 12:57 Comments ||
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Bah. Iraq is the honeypot to which the ants go. Time to kill the nests.
The presidential representative in the Southern Federal District, Vladimir Yakovlev has no evidence confirming the rumor Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev may be currently somewhere outside Russia. The head of Chechnyaâs State Council, Taus Dzhabrailov on Wednesday said that according to his sources Shamil Basayev was undergoing medical treatment in a European country.
Belchium? Or La Belle France?
Yakovlev did not rule out that the bomb attack at Groznyâs Dynamo stadium during Victory Day celebrations on May 9 in which the Chechen president, Akhmat Kadyrov was killed, had been engineered by no other than Shamil Basayev.
Oh, I don't think I'd rule it out, either...
He said the three suspects in the attack detained so far on the charges of complicity in the attack were giving testimonies already.
"Ow! Ooch! Put down the pliers! I'll talk!"
Yakovlev said he was certain the three men were the ones who staged the attack. Police Major-General Alu Alkhanov, nominated by the Kadyrov team its candidate in the early Chechen presidential election due on August 29, told Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 15 it was a matter of honor for him to solve this crime. âWe shall certainly take the investigation to the logical end and the organizers and attackers will not escape retribution,â he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:22:17 PM ||
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welve Russian soldiers and police officers were killed in rebel attacks and land mine explosions in Chechnya over the past day, an official in the Moscow-backed Chechen administration said Sunday.
Seven of the soldiers died and nine others were injured in 20 rebel attacks on federal positions over the previous 24 hours, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
In Achkhoi-Martan, southwest of Grozny, the Chechen capital, two soldiers were killed and seven wounded in a shootout with rebels who raided the local police station and set free all those detained. It was the second such raid in three days, the official said.
In Grozny, two police offices were shot and killed Saturday when the occupants of a passing car opened fire on them with automatic weapons. Another police officer was killed and one wounded when their car struck a land mine in the capital, the official said.
Russian forces used artillery to barrage suspected rebel camps in Chechnyaâs forested mountains, and Russian forces detained at least 220 residents since Saturday on suspicion of rebel links.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:20:19 PM ||
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A top U.S. commander says he doubts claims a videotape purporting to show terrorist training was made in Afghanistan, the Pakistan News Tribune said Sunday. Lt Gen. David Barno heads U.S. forces in Afghanistan. During a satellite link-up from Kabul he told reporters he is skeptical the videotape of alleged al-Qaida training shown by al-Jazeera TV was actually made in a remote, mountainous area of Afghanistan as the film claims. "It is fairly unlikely that that tape was made in Afghanistan," the News Tribune quoted him as saying Saturday. Barno said the significant U.S. military presence in the rugged border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan and the "most robust" assault by Pakistani troops on suspected al-Qaida linked militants kept terrorist or remnants of the Taliban Islamic militant movement in the area on the defensive. "I think al-Qaida and its network is under tremendous pressure here," he said, and is no longer able to mount attacks on coalition or Afghan forces.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 12:17:43 PM ||
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#1
maybe that country south of Afghanistan...or its' western neighbor, hmmmm?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:49 Comments ||
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Around 20 Iraqi insurgents were killed or wounded in a day of clashes with U.S. soldiers in the Baghdad Shiite slum of Sadr City earlier in the week, the U.S. military said on Saturday. "A number of patrols around Sadr City were ambushed by small arms fire and RPGs (rocket-propelled grenades), it went on throughout the day," said a U.S. military spokesman, referring to the fighting that raged on Thursday. "Around about 20 were killed or wounded," he told AFP. Small, armed bands attacked the U.S. patrols as they went about their work in Sadr City, a packed neighborhood of around two million people, which is named after the father of firebrand cleric Moqtada Sadr, who was killed by Saddam Hussein's agents in 1999. "We rendered the teams ineffective," said the spokesman, though he declined to give an exact breakdown of the dead and injured. "There were no coalition casualties or damage to our equipment," he added.
Sporadic fighting between the U.S. Army and Sadr's Mehdi Army militia have claimed the lives of several people in the past week alone. Family and medical sources said six Iraqis lost their lives last Sunday, while two Iraqi children were killed and 23 people injured in fighting on June 11. The impoverished neighborhood is a Sadr stronghold where the rebel cleric's militiamen have clashed repeatedly with U.S. troops since he launched his uprising against the U.S.-led occupation more than two months ago.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:06:43 PM ||
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"We rendered the teams ineffective"
now that's a understatement - I like it
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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The Algerian armed forces said on Sunday they had killed the leader of a major Islamic rebel group with ties to al Qaeda. "Units of the Peopleâs National Army, engaged in a vast anti-terrorist operation... have killed a number of criminals, including Nabil Sahraoui, alias Mustapha Abou Ibrahim, chief of the terrorist group known as the GSPC, as well as his (three) main aides," the army said in a statement obtained by Reuters. It said the militants died in the province of Bejaia, some 120 miles east of the capital Algiers. It did not say when they were killed, but said the military operation was still going on.
I'd guess it was recently...
The death of Sahraoui, who took over the leadership a year ago, was expected to significantly weaken the GSPC (Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat) the only remaining major rebel organization still fighting Algeriaâs secular authorities.
I guess GAI is now officially toes-up?
The group, believed to number around 500 armed members, claimed responsibility for the kidnapping of 32 European tourists in the Sahara desert last year. "The leadership of the GSPC has been decapitated and it will be difficult to rebuild a strong leadership as most of the top officials are dead, under arrest or have disappeared," said Mounir Boudjema, an Algerian security expert and editor.
"Decapitated" is a good term. It makes me feel... even.
"It is now a much-weakened group but itâs not the end of terrorism as links to al Qaeda remain and some will keep fighting."
Yeah. There's another ameer out there someplace, just waiting for his place in the sun...
Analysts said Sahraouiâs death would clear the way for those who wanted to surrender in exchange for some form of amnesty, which he had opposed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 11:39:07 AM ||
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The terrorist Mujahedin Khalq Organization (MKO), which settled here during the rule of Saddam Hussein, faces an uncertain future following attempts to force them out of the new Iraq. The MKO, which has carried out armed attacks to try to destabilize Tehran's government, counts about 4,000 members at its camp here, 115 kilometers (71 miles) northeast of Baghdad. The group settled here during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war. Iraqi leaders are agitating to get rid of the group, considered a terrorist organization by the United States and European Union. Iraq's former Governing Council, dissolved on June 1 to make way for the caretaker government that is to take power at the end of the month, announced in late 2003 that it would expel the group but the plan was never put into practice. Abdallah Hassan, governor of Diyala province, said he was "sure that the new government will support them". The MKO agreed to disarm in May 2003, following a deal made with the U.S.-led coalition occupying Iraq. In exchange, the coalition agreed to offer their protection.
Now they're being held as a club over the heads of the ayatollahs, and maybe as the nucleus of an Iranian invasion force.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 11:51:50 AM ||
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Iraq's interim prime minister announced a restructuring of the country's security forces on Sunday, saying all Iraqi resources would be directed toward fighting terrorism and that he was considering imposing "emergency law" in some areas. Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi also asked countries to bolster their support to Iraq's beleaguered forces — particularly in terms of equipment.
I'm still having trouble with this concept that Iraq needs military equipment. Under Sammy, it was bulging at the border with military hardware. He had an explosives fetish. Iraq bought hardware instead of groceries for years. Surely we haven't destroyed it all yet? And then there's the matter of the hardware that's being used against us and the Iraqi civilians right now...
"Until our forces are fully capable, we will continue to need support from our friends," Allawi told reporters. "We hope that additional international support will be forthcoming. Assistance for the protection of United Nations efforts in Iraq would be especially appreciated." Allawi was asked about his response to Saturday's U.S. airstrike against what the Americans said was a hideout of the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network in Fallujah. The Health Ministry said at least 16 people were killed, and an Iraqi security officer in the Sunni Muslim city said there was no evidence of foreign fighters among the dead. Allawi said "we welcome" such strikes against terrorists "anywhere in Iraq" but added that he was told of the attack only a short time beforehand. "This pattern will change" after the handover of sovereignty June 30, he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 10:47:06 AM ||
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Actually, they do need equipment.
a lot of what Hussein bought as far as heavy armament goes is sitting in a boneyard until someone figures out what to do with it. Also, they have to figure out how much of it actually works.
as for what you see on the streets and in attacks, that stuff has been looted from caches for the most part. Either way, it's definately not in the hands of the ISF.
I believe that Allawi is probably the best thing going for us right now as far as Iraqi leadership goes. Once the responsibility for any consequences in Iraq are laid on him I think you will see more aggressive moves, not less aggressive. Allawi knows how to play hardball and he's not afraid of seeming un-PC. He also is connected in all the right Arab ways.
If he were a horse, I'd bet the farm on him.
That is, of course, if he manages to stay alive long enough to do anything. I'm not too worried about that. He is the survivor type.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 13:15 Comments ||
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#5
Welcome back DS, post more often (please!), and stay safe. Anything we can do for you from back here?
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/20/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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It also could be things like boots, uniforms, truck tires, all the sort of things that help a military fight and win but don't make you look cool at the Dictator's Lodge
From The New York Times
Thousands of ethnic Kurds are pushing into lands formerly held by Iraqi Arabs, forcing tens of thousands of them to flee to ramshackle refugee camps and transforming the demographic and political map of northern Iraq. The Kurds are returning to lands from which they were expelled by the armies of Saddam Hussein and his predecessors in the Baath Party, who ordered thousands of Kurdish villages destroyed and sent waves of Iraqi Arabs north to fill the area with supporters. .... New Kurdish families show up every day at the camps that mark the landscape here, settling into tents and tumble-down homes as they wait to reclaim their former lands. The Kurdish migration appears to be causing widespread misery, with Arabs complaining of expulsions and even murders at the hands of Kurdish returnees. Many of the Kurdish refugees themselves are gathered in crowded camps. American officials say as many as 100,000 Arabs have fled their homes in north-central Iraq and are now scattered in squalid camps across the center of the country. With the anti-American insurgency raging across much of the same area, the Arab refugees appear to be receiving neither food nor shelter from the Iraqi government, relief organizations or American forces. "The Kurds, they laughed at us, they threw tomatoes at us," said Karim Qadam, a 45-year-old father of three, now living amid the rubble of a blown-up building in Baquba, northeast of Baghdad. "They told us to get out of our homes. They told us they would kill us. They told us, `You donât own anything here anymore.â " Ten years ago, Mr. Qadam said, Iraqi officials forced him to turn over his home in the southern city of Diwaniya and move north to the formerly Kurdish village of Khanaqaan, where he received a free parcel of farmland. Now, like the thousands of Arabs encamped in the parched plains northeast of Baghdad, Mr. Qadam, his wife and three children have no home to return to.
The push by the Kurds into the formerly Arab-held lands, while driven by the returnees themselves, appears to be backed by the Kurdish government, which has long advocated a resettlement of the disputed area. Despite an explicit prohibition in the Iraqi interim constitution, Kurdish officials are setting up offices and exercising governmental authority in the newly settled areas. ... "There is a lot of pressure in the Kurdish political context to bring the people who were forced out back into their hometowns," said a senior American official in Baghdad, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "What we have tried to do so far, through moral suasion, is to get the Kurds to recognize that if they put too much pressure on Kirkuk and other places south of the Green Line, they could spark regional and national instability."
But local occupation officials appear in some areas to have accepted the flow of Kurds back to their homes. According to minutes of a recent meeting of occupation officials and relief workers in the northern city of Erbil, an American official said the Americans would no longer oppose Kurdsâ crossing the Green Line, as long as the areas they were moving into were uncontested. ... The biggest potential flash point is Kirkuk, a city contested by Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen. Kurdish leaders want to make the city, with its vast oil deposits, the Kurdish regional capital and resettle it with Kurds who were driven out in the 1980âs. To make the point, some 10,000 Kurds have gathered in a sprawling camp outside Kirkuk, where they are pressing the American authorities to let them enter the city. American military officers who control Kirkuk say they are blocking attempts to expel more Arabs from the town, for fear of igniting ethnic unrest. "The Kurds are pushing, pushing," said Pascal Ishu Warda, the minister for displaced persons and migration. "We have to set up a system to deal with these people who have been thrown out of their homes."
Some people said American officials waited too long â more than a year â to set up a mechanism to resettle displaced Iraqis. By then, they said, the Kurds, tired of waiting, took matters into their own hands. Peter W. Galbraith, a former United States ambassador, who has advised the Kurdish leadership, said he recommended a claim system for Kurds and Arabs to Pentagon officials in late 2002. Nothing was put in place on the ground until last month, he said, long after the Kurds began to move south of the Green Line. ... Kurdish leaders say they are merely taking back land that was stolen from them over four decades. Publicly, the Kurdish leaders say that they are committed to working within the Iraqi state as long as their federal rights are assured, and that no Arabs have been forced from their homes. But in the villages and camps where the Kurds have returned, Kurdish leaders are more boastful. They say they pushed the Arab settlers out as part of a plan to expand Kurdish control over the territory. "We made sure there wasnât a single Arab left here who came as part of the Arabization program," said Abdul Rehman Belaf, the mayor of Makhmur, a large area in northern Iraq that was emptied of Arabs and is now being resettled by Kurds. ..."We havenât stopped yet," he said. "We have more land to take back."
Before the war began in 2003, Arab settlers worked the fields in the areas surrounding Makhmur. Most of the settlers were brought north by successive waves of Mr. Husseinâs campaign to populate the north with Arabs, killing or expelling tens of thousands of Kurds. Exactly what happened when Mr. Husseinâs army collapsed is disputed. Kurdish officials say the Arab settlers fled with the army. No expulsions were necessary, they said. But some Arab families, like those who settled around Makhmur long ago, have largely been left alone. "Saddamâs people asked me to take Kurdish lands in 1987, and I said no," said Salim Sadoon al-Sabawi, a 60-year-old Arab farmer in the village where his family has lived for generations. "When the Kurds returned, they left me alone. There was no violence. We are like brothers." Asked what the Kurds did to the Arabs who migrated into the area recently, Mr. Sabawi paused, and his son, Arkan, broke in. "They threatened people with death," Arkan said. "They told them to get out. "Letâs be honest. The Arabs who left all came here as part of the Arabization program. They kicked out the Kurds. It wasnât their land to begin with." Mr. Belaf, the Kurdish mayor, said that before the war, the area around Makhmur was 80 percent Arab. A year later, he said, it is 80 percent Kurdish, as it used to be. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/20/2004 11:07:23 AM ||
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Boo Friggin Hoo! When you think you can take somebody else's house 'cuz you're part of the master race, don't be surprised when that first payment comes due
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 11:57 Comments ||
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I think that the pirmary reason that the NYT is posting this story is the "right of return" angle. It's laying the groundwork for the series of editorials that it is going to run after Sharon finishes the wall and physically separates Israel from the disaster that will be Palestine (or Egypt and Jordan).
Nevertheless, it behooves us to support the Kurds in this legitimate enterprise. The fact that you were forced to steal someone's home doesn't make it yours.
#6
Concur with DS. Also disappointed and surprised, if Galbraith's claim is true -- this problem was well recognized long ago, and I believe esp. around Kirkuk the US Army had been dealing with it successfully. But it's sort of a no-brainer to have set up a claims process. There's going to be some pain involved, but any significant disorder or inter-ethnic violence around this process is inexcusable borrowed trouble. This would have been an ideal area for a "teaching moment" in Iraq, where one of the worst violations of the old dictatorship would be cleaned up using methods that Iraqis need to adopt if they want to become a successful civilized democracy. I hope the interim govt. will jump on this quick.
Algerian troops killed one of North Africa's most-wanted terrorist leaders, who allied his group with Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, the military said Sunday. Nabil Sahraoui, one of his key right-hand men and a "good number" of his other lieutenants were killed in a military sweep, the army said in a radio broadcast. The death of Sahraoui, head of the armed Salafist Group for Call and Combat, marked a major coup for Algerian government efforts to suppress Islamic militants. Newspapers said the military cornered them in the Kabylie region east of the capital, Algiers. The daily Liberte reported that a forensic police team identified Sahraoui's body after fighting Thurdsay night. The newspaper Le Soir said nearly 3,000 soldiers were involved in the military sweep in wooded mountains in the Bejaia region of Kabylie, some 160 miles east of Algiers.
The sweep began about two weeks ago after Islamic fighters killed about 10 soldiers. The army radio broadcast said Abbi Abdelaziz, known as "Okacha the paratrooper" and seen as a potential successor to Sahraoui, was also among those killed. Sahraoui took over leadership of the Salafist group, known by its French acronym GSPC, last year and declared its allegiance with Al Qaeda in September. The move raised concerns that the Salafists, whose decade-long aim has been to overthrow the Algerian government, could become a dangerous affiliate of Al Qaeda and launch terrorist attacks beyond their North African territory. An Algerian in his mid- to late-30s, Sahraoui had a reputation for ruthlessness, stemming partly from a campaign of killings he led against a now-defunct insurgent group, the Islamic Salvation Army, after it called a cease-fire with the Algerian government in 1997. Sahraoui took over the Salafist group from longtime leader Hassan Hattab, who reportedly was viewed as too moderate by some group members. Under Hattab, the Salafists distrusted outsiders and kept Al Qaeda at arms length, focusing instead on their domestic agenda of combating the government. However, Algeria's government also blames the group for kidnapping 32 European tourists in 2003.
The Salafists' actual strength is unknown, although experts believe the group is small, with several hundred fighters. The State Department added the group to its list of foreign terrorist organizations in 2002. The Salafist group is one of two movements fighting to install an Islamic state in Algeria. It was created in a 1998 split with the radical Armed Islamic Group. Together, the two groups are blamed in the deaths of more than 120,000 Algerians since 1992. Both groups have conducted bombings, rapes and massacres, but the Salafist group gained some public forgiveness by renouncing violence against civilians and mainly limiting its attacks to state targets, including police and soldiers.
Wowsers. Third Fat Lady in three days...!
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 10:25:00 AM ||
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nice sweep, and two-fer with Okacha the Paratrooper among the swept
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:16 Comments ||
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This maybe is a little long for Rantburg, but I really loved the picture of the fat lady singing, and this does relate to Algeria, but Fred, feel free to delete if you wish.
*************
So I'm at dinner last night, alone, and a very pretty woman, (or at least attractive enough), was having some trouble with a waiter and a food order. They were standing away from her table and because she kept sprinkling her conversation with French words, I stood up, smiled and decided to try to figure out and smooth over her problem.
Which was easily done, and after some fun flirting with her she took me over to her table to introduce me her husband, allegedly an Algerian Police official here in the US to train in and purchase advanced fingerprint and identification technology. There were five other officers in training on the equipment and an Austrian gentleman that was facilitating the transfer for the large corporation, but, truth be told, he distressingly reminded me far too much of Dr. Christian Szell as played by Sir Laurence Olivier in the Marathon Man.
He was a greasy, slippery merchant of high technology and I immediately took a dislike & distrust of him. Nonetheless we all seemed to get alone well, I am nothing if not gracious and a good dinner companion, and they invited me to join them at their table, which I did.
It is not that I know anything about this technology but if you are reasonably bright, anything can be intelligently discussed. We went over the arrest of the attorney Mayfield in Oregon, how the Spanish said the fingerprint points didn't match, but the FBI insisting that they had a 15 point match off the plastic bag holding the spare detonators. It was....a problem.
Just to put the Austrian on the spot, maybe even push a button or two, I made a joke about having their Export Licenses in order. It was a forced laugh by him and a palatable sense of iscomfort. But it was another problem, I insisted, everyone knowing the ease with which export restrictions could be circumvented ever for the most sensitive technology. But I smiled brightly with this comment.
Naturally we discussed the current US torture scandal at Abu Ghraib and at the detention facility at the Baghdad airport.
The Algerian police, and all of them, their position was that the United States wasn't showing enough determination in fighting terrorism. I strongly disagreed, maintaining that as a former soldier, I saw this as a matter of honor, you could kill your enemy, almost with impunity wherever you found him, but that it was dishonorably to torture or humiliate him once he was in your control. Kill him, certainly, dishonor him, never.
I further suggested that as a warrior it was an absolute necessity to have a sympathy for your enemy, and if you had that, torture would be impossible. Sympathy gave you a door to understanding, and without understanding him, you could never defeat him. Sympathy, compassion and an abiding respect were really the pathways to winning this or any war. This was I felt the problem with the current United States efforts in Iraq...essentially a lack of sympathy and respect for our enemy, though with great pain the US was being forced into finally respecting the insurgents and their position. The entire table nodded in agreement and allowed that mine was a fair point.
We most strongly disagreed over Morocco, where I felt the current King and government were making fair strides in taming the more outlandish difficulties of Islam. They in unison disagreed and felt that Morocco was going to hell in a hand basket, while Algeria was in far better shape. I disagreed and we finally agreed to honorably disagree. It was also suggested that Algerians in general had a bad disposition toward Morocco because Morocco never gave any aide to Algeria during the time of their most terrible troubles from 1962 through 1980.
It was fun, we all had a nice time...but, but...and yet, when walkingthem out to their car which turned out to be a white, rented mini-van, watching them all enter, it stuck me that these eight people could easily be members of a terrorist cell, that I could have been talking to the next Atta and Crew. I really didn't have a clue who they were. Several were really tough looking hombres, polite enough to be sure, but still tough, rugged, maybe even dangerous...and...and...
And almost for a moment in suspended time, there was a wild desire to drag them out of the vehicle, put some hot spot lights on them, and find out who they really were.....lol
And that's exactly the problem. Nine times out of ten, the people you want to question are perfectly innocent, free of any taint of wrongdoing or even wrong thinking, but you want to know...but more than know, you want to be Sure.
Life's a bitch. That's the only thing that's for Sure.
You know how it is, here and there, in and out, but I always try to follow your comments here at Rantburg. Through you, I stay plugged in.
The real problem is that I think I went a little crazy after the pull back from Fallujah. I more or less supported General Conway's decision to disengage from Fallujah...not because it was the right military decision, but rather because it was the necessary political decision.
In my estimation it wasn't 200 or even 500 Islamists that needed to be killed, the number would be in the thousands...which was fine with me, though I did think that we needed more than just a Brigade of Marines, the force level seemed again a little low, but the battle of Fallujah was certainly doable, certainly winable.
And maybe a necesssary and salutory lesson.
But one day, not too long ago, while reading the news out of Fallujah, my secretary was shocked to see me hurl the newspaper, all crinking newsprint and whoosping fluttering sound, across the room....she suggested that I was losing my perspective...lol
Losing it? Hell, it was making me crazy. But she was right, and I have tried to back away from all of this a little.
Still, your take on the recent events in Saudia Arabia have been a joy to follow. I know that this has been difficult for you also.
Well, we always will have Rantburg to make us at least smile a little.
#6
Lol! Great write-up - as is your wont. I can (sorta) picture the look on your secretary's face - and "get it" - that's like scaring / losing face with family... sobering, I'm sure.
Okay, I won't drive you crazy, but hope you are around when some of those moments occur, and the pullback from Fallujah is the perfect example, and we can rip the web page to shreds and line our respective digital bird cages - then laugh about it later, heh.
Top Iraqi security officials in the city of Falluja have dismissed US claims that a house destroyed by a deadly American air strike was used by al-Qaida fighters. "Nope. Nope. Never happened."
Brigadier Nuri Abudi, a member of the Falluja Brigade entrusted by the U.S. occupation with imposing security in the city, said evidence showed the destroyed building was the home of an extended Iraqi family. "We inspected the damage, we looked through the bodies of the women and children and elderly. This was a family," he said on Sunday. "There is no sign of foreigners having lived in the house. Zarqawi and his men have no presence in Falluja," he said, referring to Abu Mussab Zarqawi.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 10:37:44 AM ||
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Crikey, the only house in town with only women, children and elderly. Sure it wasn't a BBC news set ?
#2
Y'know, he can sell this line to every Press outfit on the planet - and it'll sing... except for the close, which indicates he's a lying sack of shit and is playing the crowd for being the Western Press dupes they are: "Zarqawi and his men have no presence in Falluja"
I might accept that Zarqawi is staying ahead of the curve - he's got 1000x the informants we do, but none of his people? Lol! That's ripe.
The panels above the doors on the up-armored Humvee are emblazoned with the words ârolling vengeanceâ and the inscription âR.I.Pâ is stenciled on the rear and sides of the truck next to the names of six soldiers killed in a month of fighting in the western Diyala province. The truck belongs to Capt. Ty Johnson, commander of F Troop, 4th U.S. Cavalry, the Brigade Reconnaissance Troop for the 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, and it has been at the scene of several violent engagements with a stubborn and well-armed insurgency. Not all the engagements had been on the BRTâs terms. But this fight, the one in Buhritz, would be. For weeks, a man the U.S. military described as a âcriminal gang leaderâ delivered a taunting message, banning the U.S.-led coalition from entering Buhritz, a suburban hamlet on the south side of this provincial seat, boasting that they would be engaged if they dared come in.
Those were fighting words for 3rd BCT commander Col. Dana Pittard, whose goal is to make the place safe before the June 30 handover of power to the Iraqi government. Adding fuel to the fire, a pair of area Mosques were known to have been preaching continued violence against coalition forces, defying pleas by sheiks and the governorâs office to stop. âIf they want to work with us, weâll work with them. If they want to preach hate, weâll fight them tooth and nail,â Pittard told the provinceâs deputy governor a few days before the operation, but the violence continued. There are an average of 25 attacks on coalition forces every week in the western Diyala province, but the last straw came June 16 when a civil affairs team meeting with the townâs mayor was ambushed by rocket-propelled grenades.
Rolling in at dawn on June 17 with a dozen tactical vehicles, three Bradley Fighting Vehicles and three times their basic load of ammunition, Johnson and 45 of his soldiers commandeered a two-story house and settled in for a fight they anticipated would begin toward evening. The troop taunted the bad guys by playing the divisionâs Big Red One song, and songs by Metallica and Toby Keith on a giant loudspeaker. Just four hours later â just before 10 a.m. â they got their fight when incoming small arms fire broke the morning calm and sent townspeople scattering for cover. View exclusive video of the firefight. The video is a nice touch. Needs RealPlayer. Right click on video window and choose play.
Johnson high-tailed it to the rooftop where his scouts were lighting up the landscape from their fighting positions. âWhat do we got men!? What do we got!?â he shouted over the gunfire before he picked up his own weapon and began returning fire. Dozens of enemy fighters, some dressed in all black, darted through yards, alleyways and an adjacent cemetery firing grenades, rockets and mortars, while others drove by and attacked with AK-47 assault rifles. The attack was launched from every direction. Within minutes, the floor on the rooftop looked like a brass carpet of spent shells and the scouts dodged and ducked bullets and other deadly projectiles. Their war cries and adrenaline-laced laughter punctuated the confirmed killing of fighters who proved stealthy, and the destruction of hiding places on the ground brought victory shouts.
About three hours into what became a 12-hour battle, a combat re-supply was staged in front of the house under heavy cover fire. The fighting raged on both sides, and the soldiers manned fighting positions in shifts. One Bradley was crippled by an armor-piercing rocket-propelled grenade and chunks of concrete sprayed the rooftop by incoming fire that narrowly missed several scouts. The town was rocked with the deafening sound of automatic weapons fire and the pounding of 25mm rounds from the Bradleys. The air was thick with smoke and, as temperatures soared to 120 degrees Fahrenheit, half the troopâs soldiers were taken out of the fight and given an intravenous solution to avoid dehydration. During a brief pause in the exchange of fire, a 16-year-old boy, a member of the family that had been hastily evicted early in the morning, stepped over the soldiers and empty ammunition boxes to feed his caged birds.
By Johnsonâs estimate, there were close to 100 enemy fighters, 13 confirmed enemy killed, and close to 100,000 rounds of spent U.S. ammunition from M16s, 240 Bs, Mark 19s, squad automatic weapons and 50 caliber machine guns. The BRT suffered no casualties. The next morning at 6 a.m., when the BRT vacated the house after paying the occupants $200 for their trouble, the streets were empty except for one truck that drove past and at least one bloodied fighter who staggered through looking for aid.
Sources in the governorâs office claim that rebels who fought in Najaf and Fallujah during the insurgency uprising there in April and May are paid to travel to Baqubah to kill Americans and to undermine efforts by coalition forces to establish a new Iraqi government. The BRTâs job is to conduct offensive operations, carry out combat and reconnaissance patrols and fight against a seemingly endless stream of those insurgents, identified as former regime loyalists, religious fanatics, foreign terrorists and men labeled by the military as criminals who just want to fight.
The BRT forms part of the 3rd BCTâs three-pronged approach to getting things in order by June 30. On the other side of that approach is Pittard and his battalion commanders and civil affairs teams who interact daily with local businessmen, governors, tribal leaders and municipal workers such as teachers, engineers and health professionals. The third prong entails information operations â getting the word out to the local population about what the brigade is doing to help foster Iraqi sovereignty and encouraging the people they reach to voluntary divulge the names and whereabouts of insurgents and individuals or groups who pay them to fight. Trying to keep all three going is continually overshadowed by the lack of a stable environment. âWeâre working to integrate Iraqi security forces to establish the conditions for civil-military self-reliance,â said Lt. Col. Keiron Todd, executive officer of 3rd BCT. âWeâre not there yet, but weâre working really hard at it. Weâre getting [the government] more involved, more structured. The challenge becomes the security part.â
By June 30, Todd said the combat patrols will be carried out jointly with Iraqi police and Iraqi Civil Defense Corps soldiers. Intelligence-driven operations will also be a joint effort. But the fledgling enforcers of law and order are still finding their way and barely even have enough equipment or the clout among the population to be totally effective. âAre we at war? Weâre fighting, weâre fighting. We have attacks every day,â said Todd, who was a tank company executive officer in Operation Desert Storm. âItâs different than anything Iâve read about, Itâs different than anything Iâve experienced.â
Posted by: ed ||
06/20/2004 8:52:39 AM ||
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EFL
Israeli Army officials say that through a combination of aggressive and defensive tactics, they have thwarted a series of planned Palestinian attacks and have kept militant groups on the run. Maj. Gen. Aharon Zeevi-Farkash, the chief of Israelâs military intelligence, disclosed to a committee in Parliament on Wednesday that two weeks ago, Israeli forces had blocked what would have been one of the largest attacks ever by the Islamic militant group Hamas, arresting six suicide bombers who had planned to blow themselves up simultaneously.
Israeli officials credit their success in blocking such attacks to increased experience in identifying potential bombers, as well as to a separation barrier they are building all along the West Bank and the killings and arrests of militant leaders. There has not been a major suicide bombing involving civilians since mid-March, and no Israeli civilians have been killed in any kind of Palestinian attack in six weeks. "Weâre now bearing some of the fruit of our prolonged, sustained effort which began with Operation Defensive Shield in April 2002," said Capt. Jacob Dallal, an army spokesman, referring to the armored Israeli assault into several West Bank cities. "Our grip on the situation is better, and our ability to thwart attacks is better, and the fence has proven very effective." The barrier, which is one-third complete, has almost eliminated attacks in northern Israel, he said. There were 63 deaths from bus bombings on the east-west road between Afula and Hadera in 2002, but only 3 last year after the barrier was completed there, Captain Dallal said.
From the start of the second intifada in September 2000, there have been about 150 suicide bombings in Israel. The last major bombing was on March 14 in Ashdod and killed 10 Israelis. The last bus bombing in Jerusalem was on Feb. 22, when 8 people were killed and 60 wounded. In 2003, 23 bombings killed 144 Israelis, army officials said. There have been only eight attacks so far this year, killing a total of 34 people. The army continues its aggressive pursuit of leading militants. Just this week, an Israeli helicopter gunship fired a missile at a car carrying Khalil Marshoud, whom the army described as the Aksa Martyrs Brigades commander in the Balata refugee camp near Nablus, killing him and a second militant. The army said he had planned eight suicide attacks. On Wednesday, Israeli commandos attacked a restaurant in Jenin and killed Majed al-Saadi, a member of the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
06/20/2004 5:52:27 AM ||
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strange - dead terrorists don't kill any more civilians, do they?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 15:42 Comments ||
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Heh. Dead terrorists don't kill any more of anyone, including their buddies.
It's a downside I can accept. :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 19:35 Comments ||
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A long article from the Boston Globe. Really worth reading in full. Iâm excerpting from the beginning of the article that (I think) shows that weapons are getting harder to come by...
The sharp rap on the closed shutter of the young manâs bedroom came a little after midnight. It brought him bolt upright. It was Hamas. Members of the Islamic extremist group said they knew he had received a weapon from the Al Aqsa Martyrsâ Brigades. They wanted to "borrow" it. The 19-year-old denied he had a gun, and refused to give up other gear, given to him by Islamic Jihad, another militant group. Angry words were exchanged, but eventually the Hamas members departed, leaving the grandson of Palestinian refugees in the same torment and confusion he has been in since the dawn of his manhood, at the beginning of the nearly four-year-long war between Israel and the Palestinians. More info deep in the article about the current state of the "militants", and the growing anger directed at the PA rather than Israel.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
06/20/2004 3:28:19 AM ||
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A militant from Umat Chechayevâs unit surrendered in Chechnya yesterday, the regional operative staff for the counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus told RIA Novosti. His name is not given in the investigation interests. According to the militant, he organized and performed several terrorist acts against civilians and federal forces and his relatives were involved in the explosion of the Chechen governmentâs building on December 27, 2002. The militant reported that Chechayevâs gang planned a major terrorist act in the Chechen capital. He helped to find two Chechayevâs militants in Grozny, the staff said. They put out armed resistance and were liquidated.
"Liquidated" -- there's a old Russian word.
According to the staff, 6.4 kilograms of TNT, two pistols, three grenades, three electric detonators, three radio stations and several forged IDs were seized from the militants. Pre-investigation procedures and identification of the liquidated terrorists are underway, RIA Novostiâs interlocutor said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 1:19:26 AM ||
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"Liquidated" -- there's a old Russian word.
As in "Splat"??? I always liked the expersion "Wet Work" myself
#2
I'm sure something was lost in the translation.
Posted by: B ||
06/20/2004 10:02 Comments ||
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Gee, I'm curious as to what sort of conditions he will face in a Russian jail, which is where most of the Spetnaz seems to be working as the jailers. Or if he's really really lucky, he might even get the joy of a KGB State Security run prison. I wonder if he'll be desperately wishing to be in a US run Jail inside of a week.
Two Federal servicemen have been killed, and two more wounded, as a result of a gunfight with Chechen rebels, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported on Friday, citing a source in the Chechen Interior Ministry. âAt about 08:00 on the previous day, unidentified persons fired automatic weapons and grenade launchers at a field engineersâ detail of one of the units of Russiaâs Interior Ministry troops,â the source said. According to the source, one conscript and one contract soldier were killed in the attack. Two conscripts were wounded. The source also said that five rebel fighters had been killed by return fire. Their bodies are being identified, he said. At the scene of the fight, the federal servicemen discovered three grenade launchers, a machinegun and two assault rifles, two homemade hand grenades, electric detonators, and a large quantity of ammunition, the agency reported.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 1:17:51 AM ||
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The military called on al-Qaeda-linked militants to surrender on Saturday after security forces killed a top tribal commander, Nek Muhammad. Military spokesman Major-General Shaukat Sultan said an amnesty would be offered to foreign fighters with al-Qaeda network and the local tribespeople who had sheltered them, but only if they laid down their arms. "In case of locals, amnesty will be given to those who lay down their weapons and denounce militancy," Sultan said. "Foreigners will have to do the same, but they will also have to get themselves registered, photographed and fingerprinted." Failure to take up the offer, he said, would invite a further crackdown by the military, which has been battling the militants for months in a campaign to rid the country of radicals. "If there is any backlash, we are prepared to deal with it," Sultan said, adding that more than 80 militants, mostly foreigners, and 18 soldiers had been killed in fighting so far this month.
1:4 kill ratio's a little low. The Paks prob'ly need more practice? Might I suggest a seris of live-fire exercises? North Waziristan? Balochistan? Cleaning out the Bugtis? Then, when they think they're ready for a full-scale operation, stage an assault on Karachi.
Sultan said the local tribesmen would help the security forces to hunt foreigners. "A tribal army of 2,000 drummers men is being raised for this task."
That's got the Bad Guys quaking in their curly-toed slippers, I'm sure...
In Kabul, the coalition forcesâ Lieutenant-Colonel Tucker Mansager said Nek Muhammadâs death would be a blow to the foreign militants. "Itâs our hope that his death will help disorganise the ongoing fight by the foreign fighters in the tribal areas of Pakistan and allow the Pakistani military to better destroy the terrorists that remain in that area."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 1:11:13 AM ||
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Seven Russian soldiers and police officers were killed in rebel attacks in Chechnya over the past day, an official in the Moscow-backed Chechen administration said Saturday. Four of the soldiers died and six others were wounded in 14 rebel raids on Russian outposts over the previous 24 hours, the official said on condition of anonymity. In the Chechen capital, Grozny, a police officer was killed and another was wounded late Friday when unidentified attackers fired at a checkpoint. In the eastern city of Gudermes, two police officers were found dead Saturday after being kidnapped by unidentified abductors the previous day. The federal artillery on Saturday barraged suspected rebel camps in Chechnyaâs forested mountains, and Russian forces detained at least 280 residents on suspicion of rebel links since Friday.
Alu Alkhanov, a top candidate to succeed Kadyrov in Augustâs election, promised Saturday to help deliver compensations to the residents of Chechnya for their housing lost in the war. Alkhanov, the interior minister in the Moscow-backed government of Chechnya, said on the Echo of Moscow radio that a public council would oversee the distribution of funds to prevent abuses.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/20/2004 1:21:18 AM ||
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Rebels ambushed a police truck with a bomb and gunfire Saturday, also hitting a nearby passenger bus in an attack that killed 14 policemen and four civilians, including at least one child. At least 27 people were wounded in the attack in the village of Dhankhola, about 250 miles southwest of Nepal's capital, Katmandu. The police truck was on patrol when it hit a mine in the road, and the rebels opened fire, police officials said. Surviving police fired back. A passenger bus traveling right behind the police vehicle was caught in the crossfire, and at least four civilians were killed, police said. The battle lasted for about two hours before reinforcements reached the area. The rebels fled after government soldiers fired from army helicopters.
Not quite willing to stand up in a fair fight.
Police and hospital officials said 14 civilians and 13 police were wounded in the attack. Most were taken to a hospital in Nepalgunj, the nearest big town in the area. Doctors said most of those hospitalized have bullet wounds.
"Brilliant, Dr. Quincy, brilliant!"
"I saw some people with guns on the hills and yelled at the driver but the explosion hit the police truck, and the rebels began firing indiscriminately. Many passengers were hit," Ramesh Shah, a wounded passenger, told The Associated Press from his hospital bed. It wasn't immediately clear if there were any rebel causalities. Army troops have sealed the highway and were milling around ineffectually as usual hunting for the attackers in the surrounding jungles.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/20/2004 12:47:42 AM ||
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Three U.S. senators met with interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi on Saturday and later called on the world's nations to do more to help Iraq in the tough times ahead. The visit by Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D.; Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del.; and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., comes amid an upsurge of insurgent attacks as the U.S.-led occupation authority prepares to hand over power to Iraq's interim government June 30. "We recognize over the course of the next few weeks in particular, the many, many challenges relating to security, strengthening the economy, finding even greater opportunities for international involvement," Daschle said.
Daschle's in a tough race, perhaps he's hoping to convince people but I think the folks in South Dakota have more sense.
"But I have to say I have a new and better appreciation of the progress that this government is making and the real potential for success that they may be able to demonstrate as they continue their work." He commented after a brief meeting with Allawi and L. Paul Bremer, head of the occupation authority. Iraq faces "an incredibly difficult road ahead," Biden said. "I think a number of mistakes have been made up to this point, but I think that the ultimate security and success in Iraq is still clearly within the grasp of the prime minister, his Cabinet."
When he gets back home he'll dwell on the mistakes...
Graham called for increased aid. "People have to sacrifice and I would call on the international community to do what Senator Biden said: Help where you can," Graham said. "If you can send troops, send troops; if you can forgive debt, forgive debt. But the Iraqi people have suffered - they need all the help they can get."
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/20/2004 12:42:56 AM ||
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#1
Note to dem darn libs: we don't need government to fix da problem; government is the problem.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:16 Comments ||
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#3
Seems to this average citizen that these guys just wasted a lota taxpayer dough. A long way to go for bottom feeders, just to ask for more aid from the already unwilling.
Second thought, I can see a spot for DASHOLE and Biden fetching IEDs. That would recoup taxpayer money.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:25 Comments ||
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#4
Graham, the stooge, gives cover to Daschle and Biden who are in Iraq to say they have been in Iraq, and who will continue to bash the administration.
#5
I think Lindsey was there to mind Slow Joe and Tom Thumb
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#6
Tancred - Lol - if Bush does ask for more money to increase the aid to Iraq, you think they'll denounce the request, moaning about the cost of the Republican war, perhaps? No partisanship here, folks, move along...
#7
The other "side of the aisle" realises that their strategy isn't going to get them the votes they need this November. Hence this little field trip and speech, Kerry's so-called "tough talk" and the changes in hymn from the WaPo and NPR choir when they showed up on Fox last weekend.
But... But... Kofi sez it's not genocide, so there's no hurry...
Jerry Fowler is Staff Director of the Committee on Conscience, a division of the U.S. Holocaust Museum created to ensure that genocide never happens again. He visited refugee camps in Chad last month and determined that there is a real threat of genocide in Darfur. AllAfrica.comâs Maria Nghidinwa spoke with Fowler about the ongoing conflict in Sudan.
With more first-hand accounts of violence in Darfur, from villages inside Sudan and refugees in Chad, there is a growing controversy over whether the events taking place in Darfur should be called genocide. Do you think this is an appropriate way to describe the violence?
I think, first of all, that thatâs the wrong question. I think that there is clearly a threat of genocide, and the Genocide Convention talks about preventing genocide. And I donât think that we have to waste any more time figuring out whether it is or it isnât before we act. The time to act is now.
To put that question to people is fine, but like Kofi Annan said yesterday, "Well, I canât say itâs genocide." That doesnât get him off the hook, because the charge is to prevent genocide. And so thatâs just what sometimes bothers me is the suggestion that if Kofi Annan says itâs not genocide, that then heâs off the hook, and the Security Councilâs off the hook, and all the nations are off the hook.
How has the Committee on Conscience at the U.S. Holocaust Museum begun investigating and reporting on the events in Sudan?
Weâve been doing a lot of activities. I went to Chad to speak to refugees and since Iâve come back, Iâve done a lot of press. I published an article in the Washington Post. Iâve been on a lot of radio shows. I just did a show at the National Public Radio station in Illinois earlier today in Urbana, IL. Weâve done events at the [Holocaust] museum and weâre working on an event for next Thursday. Itâs not set yet, so I canât really tell you anything about it. But if it comes off itâs going to be a very high-profile event, so weâre trying to, in every way that we can, raise awareness of whatâs happening, generate concern and prompt action.
What response have you gotten from the U.S. public so far?
I was just on this radio show and - this is out in the middle of America, Illinois - and the publicâs responding. Theyâre hearing this and theyâre moved by what theyâre hearing, moved to do something. Earlier in the week, I talked to a group in Tennessee, and it was the same thing. Youâre starting to see it be picked up, not just from what Iâm doing, but in general, in newspapers around the country. So there is a public reaction thatâs building. Iâm getting some reaction from the United States government too. Theyâre fully engaged. My observation is that theyâre not getting assistance from other countries, especially on the Security Council, and I think thereâs still a long way to go on that regard.
From your perspective, are other African countries showing interest in helping with the situation, or are they rather quiet about it?
The African Union is doing a good job in fielding monitors for the ceasefire that was agreed to, but the problem is the ceasefire is not really being...I suppose once they monitor it, theyâll say itâs not really being adhered to, but we already know that. I would encourage African governments to put more pressure on Khartoum. I think it was a mistake to elect Khartoum to the Human Rights Commission while itâs committing massive human rights abuses, not only against its own population, but against the portion of its population that is identified as black African. I think that should raise the ire of every government in sub-Saharan Africa.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 10:35:17 PM ||
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Abu Garbage, focus!
Black people, may they be proud. Nothing from our Americans of African decent, from what I have heard.
I have no black friends right now. Don't play those games any more.
#2
Translation: SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
Posted by: Charles ||
06/20/2004 1:25 Comments ||
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#3
What happened to all those pompous holes who profess to be humanitarians? Another Rwanda in the making and the UN sits on its arse
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:41 Comments ||
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#4
Those pompous holes who profess to be humanitarians will show up and bemoan US intervention (if that happens) since Southern Sudan has oil and resources that will be painted as the main reason for US involvement.
#5
It's safe to assume that if this story has penetrated the miasma of American media it has also gotten adequate air time abroad.
How is it that no one else is stepping up to the plate? Our nation continues to do a preponderance of the heavy lifting while so many others sit back and cheerfully provide extensive critiques of our efforts but little else in the way of productive intervention. In light of how Darfur represents the brutalization of Islamic people, where is any sort of outrage or mobilization within the Middle East?
America needs to make it crystal clear that the time has come for other nations to marshall their military might towards the ends of stopping such wanton slaughter. Anything less should only serve to further stitch the badge of Global Cop⢠upon our nation's uniform. Thank goodness we have the sense to wear it proudly.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/20/2004 12:52 Comments ||
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#7
I just did a show at the National Public Radio station in Illinois earlier today in Urbana, IL.
Yeah, that'll make a difference.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/20/2004 13:04 Comments ||
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#8
I think that the story is hard for the American media to publicize. I mean, Christians being killed by Muslims, is not the news that they like to drum the drums for. CBS and NBC prefer the white Christians troops putting underwear and leashes on ethnic looking Iraqis.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/21/2004 1:07 Comments ||
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A bit more detail on yesterday's article...
A U.S. warplane fired missiles Saturday into a residential neighborhood in Fallujah, killing at least 20 people and leveling houses, police and residents said. In the Fallujah strike, at least two houses were demolished and six others were damaged in the poor neighborhood. At least 20 bodies were counted, and they were taken for burial immediately at the city's "martyrs' cemetery in accordance with Islamic custom of burying the dead quickly. At least three women and five children were among the dead.
And 11 baby ducks...
Two other people died at the hospital, officials there said. "At 9:30 a.m., a U.S. plane shot two missiles on this residential area," said the Fallujah police chief, Sabbar al-Janabi, according to The AP. "Scores were killed and injured. This picture speaks for itself." U.S. officials have said Jordanian-born al Qaeda activist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may be hiding in the city. Al-Zarqawi has been blamed for the string of car bombs across Iraq.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the military's deputy operations chief, said multiple intelligence sources suggested that "a significant number of people in the Zarqawi network" were in the house at the time of the attack. U.S. officials said they did not know if al-Zarqawi was there.
But they're hoping...
Outraged residents gathered around the site after the explosions damaged eight homes in a poor neighborhood of the city. The Health Ministry said at least 16 people were killed, but witnesses said at least 20 people, including women and children, were killed. Kimmitt said the attack set off ammunition and weapons stored in the safehouse, triggering "multiple secondary explosions" that could have caused some of the casualties and damage. Residents, however, accused the United States of striking twice — the second time after rescuers moved into the site trying to pull out victims.
No surprise there...
The surprise breakfast-hour strike was the first significant U.S. military move in Fallujah since April, when Marines backed away from a bloody three-week siege against insurgents holed up there. Since the U.S. forces left, residents have said extremist influence in the Sunni Muslim city, west of Baghdad, has grown.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 12:25:35 AM ||
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#1
I don't care about the whining residents, I want to know WHO we killed, besides "puppies and kittens for orphans of parents killed by US bombing".
Posted by: Charles ||
06/20/2004 1:10 Comments ||
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#2
Did we get their attention yet?
It damn hard to behead people when you're running from rabbit hole to rabbit hole.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/20/2004 1:31 Comments ||
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My current contract is with the Army, at Aberdeen. I'm referred to as a "contractor." If my next contract is also with the Army, but in Baghdad, will that make me a "mercenary"?
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 10:13 Comments ||
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#5
Unlikely to find out who, exactly, was there for a while. This was a nice touch, though: Residents, however, accused the United States of striking twice â the second time after rescuers moved into the site trying to pull out victims.
Classic tactics. The A-Q boys have been known to do that themselves, I believe - or try to, at any rate.
#5
ex-lib -- I'm going to steal that quote. Not intentionally, but a week from now, a month from now, when I've forgotten this article, it'll burp out in a comment as my own.
Thanx. I'm not an intentional plagiarist.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/20/2004 13:09 Comments ||
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 00:04 ||
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#1
Hanging's too good for him (I'd prefer the shredder), but he's their murdering dictator, so they get to choose.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/20/2004 0:44 Comments ||
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Barb, have you ever seen a hanging? It's not a pretty sight. Watching a man have the life strangled out of him, feet kicking and body twisting until he slowly stops moving. And the face while this is happening!
It's also possible for Saddam to be beheaded by hanging him. If he's kept on enough wait and the wrope is angled correctly. It's happened before here in the US.
I can't wait for the PPV special.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/20/2004 1:17 Comments ||
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Yeah, I was kinda hoping for something slow and lingering myself. Oh, and intensely painful, too.
I think we would be making a HUGE mistake if we turn Saddam over to the so-called new Iraqi government.
When Saddam was captured in his little hole in the ground, he had a reported $750,000 in crisp American one hundred dollar bills.
Where are the millions-billions in cold cash, Euros, Dollars, Pounds, Swiss Francs, etc, he made off the Oil For Food (profit)program? The reported 31 million Assad paid for his WMD, which some of which are located in the Hizballah controlled heavily-fortified Bekaa Valley jointly 'protected' by Syrian troops.
'Mutually-lucrative Iraqi-Syrian arms transactions are nothing new. Firas Tlas, son of Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlas, has been the key to Syria's rogue alliance with Iraq. He and Assad made hundreds of millions of dollars selling weapons, oil and drugs to and from Iraq, according to the May 13, 2003 edition of Geostrategy-Direct.com.
The CIA now believes a multi-million dollar deal between Iraq and Syria provided for the hiding and safekeeping of Saddam's strategic weapons.'
I stated some of the WMD, since the recently uncovered jihadist plot to murder an estimated 80 thousand people in Amman Jordan through a deadly multi-site chemical attack. Chemicals (WMD) transferred (via trucks) into Jordan from Syria. Oh yes indeed Saddam's WMD are not only out there, they are out there & under there (sand) in many places.
And there is this tid bit:
'U.S. intelligence first identified a stream of tractor-trailer trucks moving from Iraq to Syria to Lebanon in January 2003. The significance of this sighting did not register on the CIA at the time.
U.S. intelligence sources believe the area contains extended-range Scud-based missiles and parts for chemical and biological warheads.'
How much money does Saddam have stashed? Billions! If U.S. Coalition forces let this swine be turned over to 'Iraqi' control Saddam will use those billions in more way than one and then another set of major & dangerous headaches commence not only for Coalition forces but Saddam's revenge shall begin.
Saddam MUST remain in U.S. custody. As long as the Axis of terror Iran-Syria-Lebanon is allowed to remain, our boys are up against it, and that is not in the least fair to them, nor their loved ones.
This is the beginning of World War 3, not a regional conflict with sort term resolutions. Are most members of the public cognizant of the seriousness of the general geostrategic situation confronting each & every one of us? Or will it take additional 9-11's style mass slaughters carried out by the organized world-wide death cult? .......you fill in the rest.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/20/2004 2:42 Comments ||
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Hanging works for me,as long as it is not one of those new fangled scaffoldings with the fancy trap door.Keep it simple a tree branch,a rope,and a foot stool.
#8
Mark, interesting post. But I'm not sure why you think Sadaam can't be turned over to the Iraqi's. Do you think that we haven't wrung him dry yet? Just asking.
#9
Placement of the knot is important in a hanging. Place the knot behind the head and the executee slowly strangles from his own weight. Place the knot to the side of the neck, the drop snaps it. No mercy in this case please.
#10
Are we sure they will kill him? Or even convict him? Or even hold him? I don't rule out a magic disappearing act. "Abdul, where'd he go? Achmed, I thought you were wathcing him." Until we know their government is functioning, we should hold him.
#11
Mark, I don't know if it's WWIII quite yet. I agree that it could come to that, God forbid, but not if we make the right moves. As for turning over Saddam . . . I think it'll be important for the new Iraq to have closure - assuming, of course, that Zpaz's worst fears don't come true. The states that made deals with Saddam will have to be dealt with, and that's definitely going to take some time. I agree that we need to know all that there is to know, but you know, I wouldn't put it past the CIA to make remarks about how well Saddam was doing under pressure to talk to disguise what they'd gotten out of him. After all, if you capture an enemy and say his talking, his friends are going to know that you know what he knew. On the other hand, I may be giving the CIA too much credit. My only fear is that somehow the Iraqis' hands will be tied by the UN before we get the bastard swinging from the edge of a rope.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/20/2004 19:31 Comments ||
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#12
Do I hear any votes for drawing-and-quartering? Although Mel Gibson makes it look kinda romantic, I'm pretty sure it isn't...
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Algerian troops killed one of North Africa's most-wanted terrorist leaders, who allied his group with Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, the military said Sunday. 
The panels above the doors on the up-armored Humvee are emblazoned with the words ârolling vengeanceâ and the inscription âR.I.Pâ is stenciled on the rear and sides of the truck next to the names of six soldiers killed in a month of fighting in the western Diyala province. The truck belongs to Capt. Ty Johnson, commander of 
