Chas Martin knocks away the objections to a bigger, better space program:
Gads, folks, wouldnât an informed opinion be more useful?
Cost: NASAâs total budget right now is only $15 billion. The total Federal budget is about 2 trillion. That about 0.75 percent of the federal budget; doubling it would be a rounding error. So letâs not panic about "how expensive" it is. (Cf. $22 billion for Iraq reconstruction -- and doubling NASAâs budget is rather more than Bush is really talking about.)
Cost benefit: weâre talking about perhaps as much as $15 billion a year; the return is two whole worlds. If the long-term aspects of the investment bother you (why? Itâs proportionally less than the government investment in the railroads in the 19th century, and much the same time scale) then consider just the commercial launch market right now. Loral is doing about $1 billion a year in revenues on satellites and satellite services, and itâs not like satellites have stopped going up. Weâre talking about making an investment that would reduce launch costs -- necessarily; weâve got to get much cheaper, better heavy lift for any of this to work -- thatâs only fifteen times the current net revenues from one such company.
(Yes, yes, this isnât a complete cost-benefit study or anything like it; Iâm pointing out that weâre talking about relatively small change in the current budget and perfectly reasonable commercial scales of investment.)
Risks: Yes, people could die. People will die. Not to be callous, but so what? We lost more people in one helicopter crash in Iraq than have died in the history of space flight. Itâs a shame. Itâs a bummer. But somehow weâre managing to cope.
Why not robots? The Shuttle program actually demonstrated this neatly not many years ago. The Shuttle was up to do repairs on a satellite and they were unable to grab it with the manipulator arm. The astronauts finally dealt with the problem by ... reaching over and grabbing it. Humans are the universal tool: we can do things that no one thought of needing. If weâd had a human on Mars in 1976, the question of whether there is life there would have been solved. As it was, we sent Viking, and brilliant as it was, the three life-detection experiments netted out to "Gee, we donât really know." The easy answer to the results was "yes"; the results werenât enough, though, and it was possible to interpret them as a "no". With people on site, you can say "hey, letâs try this."
Finally, though, the real reason to go is because thatâs what people do. The way we are treating the Solar System now is like mailing an Instamatic to cousin Francoise and claiming weâd "seen Paris" when the pictures come back.
#2
The problem with NASA is not simply the budget. I dare say Americans wouldn't mind even tossing up to 50-70 billion at NASA. PROVIDED of course they actually got something done. Its been nearly 50 years since man stepped on the moon, so many probes, satellites, launches and lives have been lost and yet not another visionary challenge has NASA come up with. NASA tries to do many things at once rather than try to focus on goals one at a time. We killed the Saturn program, it took until now to get a device like Spirit back on Mars as a followup to Viking. Whats our follow on to Voyager? Sorry, NASA's only method of survival now is to reinvent itself, it needs to find a way to get those scientists and engineers back and a lot of the management problems out.
Posted by: Val ||
01/11/2004 21:47 Comments ||
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#3
Personally, if we're going to throw bushels of $$$ at NASA, the entire administration there should be swept out beforehand. Get some direction (and val touched on this), quit trying to juggle so many things at once, and actually get something DONE (without exploding or burning up). Right now it should be ISS and whatever rovers are working. That shouldn't be too much to ask, but apparently they can't get that right, either (air leaks, balloons blocking the rover?!?!). Then go back to the moon as cost-effectively and as safely as possible. And use that as a staging for Mars.
#4
Its been nearly 50 years since man stepped on the moon,
For values of 50 that are 3/5ths of normal.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 22:15 Comments ||
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Val,
You are forgetting the first mars rover that was on mars a few years ago...
Also it is unfair to blame NASA for the lack of focus they have. The lack of focus is due to the fact that we are just giving them a bunch of money and saying do something with it but don't screw it up. NASA has been given no mission. If we tell NASA to get men on Mars, they will do it. I'm sure of it.
#6
I agree,do it in focused stages(1)get the ISS up and running,
I mean with a perminant crew,large enough to do something.
Get industry into research,development and manufacturing of materials,chemicals,and medicine.
Use the ISS as a staging area to put a perminant presence on the moon.
Get industry up there to start mining and manufacturing materials,etc.
Once the things are up and running the rest of the Solar System is within reasonable reach.
The Parliament will pass the bill on political rights for women and Kuwaiti women will soon get their political rights, says Chairperson of Kuwait Voluntary Committee Sheikha Amthal Al-Ahmed Al-Sabah. Sheikha Amthal left for Doha in Qatar on a three day official visit at the invitation of Sheikha Moza - wife of HH the Amir of Qatar Sheikh Hamd Bin Khaleefa. During her tour, Sheikha Amthal will visit important educational and social centres in Qatar. She is also slated to visit several environmental protectorates and their management, her prime interest. Speaking to the Arab Times ahead of her departure, Sheikha Amthal said, "Kuwaiti women should be prepared for the aftermath of getting their political rights and they should have a real perspective on their future." She praised the 24th GCC summit the Fourth Conference of Heads of Kuwait's Diplomatic Missions which proposed to assign top positions for women. Pointing out the current GCC Secretary-General did not rule out the possibility of a woman becoming the Secretary General of GCC, she said, "this is a sign of great development in the Gulf region." She added Kuwaiti women - like Faiza Al-Khorafi who was the Rector of Kuwait University - have held top positions in and outside Kuwait. "Nabeela Al-Mulla is the Kuwaiti Ambassador to Vienna - the first female ambassador from any of the Gulf states." Nabeela will shortly be the voice of Kuwait in the UN, she stressed.
Kuwait's got the idea. They might be approaching the tipping point, where there'll be no going back, despite what the turbans say...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 12:05 ||
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The headress doesn't matter; with political rights will come legal rights provided by pandering legislators.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 12:49 Comments ||
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#2
Woo-hoo! Kuwaiti women will now be able to drive (with the appropriate male relative escort).
(Yea I know woment in Kuwait can already drive, but work with me here.)
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#3
The democratization of Iraq is spilling over into the gulf states. This makes all of us bins very angry.
Posted by: bin ||
01/11/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#4
the Islamic nutcases are losing thier grip everywhere it would seem.good stuff this.
They continue climbing that snow-capped molehill... Sheikh Ayed Al-Qarni, a prominent Saudi Islamic scholar, has said that Islam does not prohibit women from driving but that the matter must be seriously discussed. He said he preferred a woman driving her car herself rather than being driven by a stranger without a legal escort. âThere is no definite text (either in the Qurâan or Sunnah) that bans women driving,â said the scholar, who is known for his moderate Islamic views, in an interview with Al-Hayat newspaper. He called for a debate on the issue by prominent scholars.
Obviouisly he must be killed...
Al-Qarniâs statement was welcomed by many Saudis, including women, who expressed their hopes that women would be allowed to drive in the Kingdom in the near future. The issue is likely to top the agenda of the next national dialogue, which will focus on women. According to Dr. Rashid Al-Rajeh, deputy chairman of the forum, 30 women will take part in the event to be held in Madinah next month.
They have to come by taxi, though...
âThe prohibition of women driving is not an established religious rule,â Al-Qarni said. âIf a woman is given the choice between driving a car herself or being alone in a car with a stranger, then I would choose that she drive herself,â he added. The scholar, however, does not want to give the impression that he necessarily believes that women should drive. âI personally will not allow my wife or daughters or sisters to drive. But I tell my brothers to keep the matter open for debate by a responsible scientific body,â he said. âWe have to address all issues, including women driving, in a wise and rational manner,â he added. He also said that women should be given a âwider opportunity to participate fully in society, which needs to listen to what women have to say.â He called for the setting up of special courts to look into womenâs grievances, such as their complaints about husbands and fathers.
As long as they can round up four pious men as witnesses, of course...
Faisal Ahmad, a postgraduate student in Islamic studies at Imam Muhammad ibn Saud Islamic University in Riyadh, said scholars must take decisions on important issues with responsibility. âPermitting and prohibiting things shouldnât be done lightly. When one permits or prohibits something in Islam, itâs applicable to all Muslims. So when driving for women is prohibited, it means that all our Muslim sisters in the world are committing a sin when they drive,â he pointed out.
The brazen hussies!
âI cannot but help thinking that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never prohibited women from riding horses or whatever in those times...so what is the difference now? I can understand some of us do not want our sisters, daughters, mothers or wives to drive but itâs not due to their being unable to drive. In fact, many of them drive abroad, but here in the Kingdom, many men in the streets and in cars do not practice Islamic conduct.â
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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#1
If women are allowed to drive I will have to reconsider my islamic conversion. And I was ready to suspend all reality. So balls back in your court Ibn Iman.
#2
There is a great story (probably true) of a guy who worked at Aramco and lived in "Little America" a.k.a. Dhahran Camp. He had a Corvette convertible which he only drove within the camp - and his "girlfriend" was one of those fiery Irish "secretaries" the Saudis loved to hire for their red hair, green eyes, and long long legs.
One day, after imbibing an unknown but significant quantity of sidiqqi (alcohol - Arabic for 'friend') they had a spat. She decided to make her point by jumping in his pride and joy and taking a spin around the camp - where women are allowed to drive by decree from Abdul Aziz hisownself. Then, for reasons unknown but prolly having to do with too much 'sid', she decided to take the Vette outside the camp - through the manned guard gate - into Dar al-Islam. Definitely a bad move.
As she approached, tires squealing, the guards freaked, lowered the barrier, and one ran out into the middle of the lane - and leveled a machine gun at her. Amazingly, she stopped. There was much hollering and screaming and gnashing of teeth. Then he showed up on foot, breathless, and talked her into letting him get behind the wheel and they reversed back into the camp and back to his apartment - to everyone's relief. The in-house mutawas arrived shortly thereafter, but she was gone. He got to spend a couple of nights with "Industrial Security" and was blacklisted - which means gone when his contract expired.
The idea that, on one side of an imaginary line she could drive the car without problems and on the other she could be gunned down like a rabid dog leaves one to ponder how insane Islam really is. The fact that Mohammed didn't ever say femalians couldn't 'drive' - whether one horse or 200 under the hood of an old Vette, isn't the point. The point is the Islamic treatment of wymyn. Obviously, Little Mo wasn't breast-fed long enough or something, and was probably jilted or cuckolded along the way. Just as obviously, his twisted paranoia and hatred and "issues" have been institutionalized for about 14 centuries.
When these "scholars" of the RoP decide to talk about something significant, such as the utter denouncement of Shari'a Law, it will be the first step ever toward sanity in the History of Islam. Until then, they should STFU then FOAD.
#3
Well Islam has not banned anything for women except for things like Adultery. The days of Wahhabi glory will soon end and that will be one happy day! Lucky bastard -- u do give yourself away.... not a muslim poster for sure. If you pose again, I will call u something worse -- a zionist !
#5
Faisal, stop lying. Women are treated like shit throughout the Muslim world, and it's always justified by saying Islam requires it. Go ask the Jordanians about "honor killings", or the Sudanese about stoning rape victims.
Oh, sorry, that's right -- under Islam, someone who's raped has committed adultery.
And threatening to call someone a "Zionist" says more about you than I think you intended to reveal.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 8:55 Comments ||
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#6
Speaking for this non-jew, infidel; I wouldn't be offended if I were called a zionist. On the other hand, to be called a Frenchman......
Best regards,
Allen Ackbar
#7
Faisal: Women are treated like shit in the muslim world because the men are such weak-willed selfish neurotic pussies. Gotta artificially subjugate and humiliate the women so they finally feel above something. Show some self-control when you see an ankle flashed and I'll consider changing my opinion. There's no shame where there's no honor.
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/11/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#8
"Well Islam has not banned anything for women except for things like Adultery."
Well that's an interesting statement. No, let's make that breathtakingly false, shall we?
Let's start with the fundamentals. Does a woman have the same rights as a man? C'mon, Faisal, let's hear it. Does her word or legal testimony carry the same weight? Can she simply declare herself divorced three times and have it so? Can she have a passport and identity separate from her husband? Can she travel freely and alone? Is the penalty for all offences the same for men and women? Can she do everything a man can legally do? Can she go everywhere a man can legally go? Can she own property separately? Can she sit in council as an equal when laws and proposals are debated and participate as such? Can she become an Islamic scholar? How many female Imams are there in Islam? Does she have the same access or rights to education as a man? Can she get a job if she wants to - without anyone's permission? Will anyone hire her, assuming she's qualified, without her husband's or father's approval?
I (also) believe you to be a simple-minded troll with nothing more than lame thoughtless excuses to post. Shari'a is a conglomeration of barbaric customs dating back to the vaunted age of the Caliphate. It is an institutionalized form of total male suppression of the female, among other ancient notions. It is offensive in every aspect to anyone not likewise cast in amber. It is incumbent upon Muslims to follow it.
You're an ass - and not a very smart one, at that.
#11
Murat's taking a deep bath in that Egyptian river (you know the one, de niale) over the booms in Istambul. He probably won't be back until he's found a new topic to support.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 12:42 Comments ||
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#12
Dear Dot Com: I heard your bubble burst but somehow u still seem to be around. Seems like your zionist masters pay u per posting lol. Ditto for Shipman. Shipman your 'compass' seems to pointing in the wrong direction. Seems you need a GPS mboy. Otherwise your ships gonna take u down with it. Unfotunately, like you two drag queens, I don't get paid by anyone. So don't expect quick replies. I have other (better) things on my mind lol. As for your 'army of luckies' comment shipman, these 'armies' only fight women and children and I am neither.
Whatever .com has written regarding passport of a woman, divorce etc are total crap. Any woman who is not satisfied with her marriage can take what is called 'khula' ... a divorce initiated from the woman's side. And she can marry a man of her choice after that. Regarding female Imam ... are there female Rabbis and female bishops? if so, since how many years have they been 'introduced' --- does all community accept them? Of course NOT.
For all other people who replied I'd just like to say that the assertion that the islamic world is male dominated is correct. But the picture painted above by these bigots is incorrect. The truth is out there :-) and it's certainly not on CNN/FOX/NBC and all the zionist media.
Click here to see the zionists in action. Babbling on TV non-stop
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-entertainment-news-monopoly-one-day-on-cable-tv.html
whitecollar redneck: zionists, jews and the white race are three different things. Don't hide your ass behind the white label.
#18
If Faisal was in Saudi Arabia he would be stoned to death for visiting a Zionist website. That's if his balls aren't cut off first for supporting womens rights.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 15:59 Comments ||
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#19
LOL! Faisal, as with the rest of the dregs, just lies as it suits. He picks and chooses what he will address - and leaves out any inconvenient facts. Yes, mboy, your time is precious. So many sites to troll, so much shit to spread, so many half-truths and so many lies. And oh so tiring.
#20
Hey Faisal by your logic I can say that you're an impotent hoser and still be correct after all you'll merely try to be disingenous and say you aren't but in reality you really are. Hey Fred I say we keep this troll, we need something for entertainment these days anyway.
Posted by: Val ||
01/11/2004 22:09 Comments ||
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The US-Islamic World Forum has opened in Doha amid an outpouring of concern over the deteriorating Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Inaugurating the conference, the Emir of Qatar, Shaikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani said conditions in the occupied territories have worsened to an "unacceptable" extent. He urged the United States and international community to step in as Israel uses âexcessive violenceâ against Palestinians which he said are a violation of international law, UN principles and human rights. The Emir said the Islamic world questioned why Washington, the main Middle East peace broker, has not stepped in to halt Israelâs acts.
Organised by the US-based Brookings Institutionâs Saban Centre for Middle East Policy along with Qatar, the conference is aimed at defining what divides the US and Islamic world and bridging the gaps, said Martin Indyk, Saban Centreâs director. Indyk, a former US ambassador to Israel, described the task as âvery difficultâ due to profound misunderstandings between the two worlds. However, he felt optimistic that the Doha forum would generate ideas to advance the interests of both sides.
But in the opening address, many participants discussed the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and occupation of Iraq. Some 10 months into the war, US-led forces have yet to restore stability and security to occupied Iraq. The invasion, not authorised by any UN resolution, soured already tense ties between the US and Muslim world due to the September 11 2001 attacks in New York and Washington. And now there are rising fears over Iraqâs territorial integrity as ethnic tensions grow in the heavily-populated Kurdish north. Qatarâs Emir called for maintaining the countryâs unity, stressing the need for Iraqis to choose their leadership and government.
Conference participant Edward Djerejian, Director of the Baker Institute, echoed these comments, saying the worst case scenario would be a territorial disintegration of Iraq. Racked by ongoing violence, the turning point for Iraq will be when Iraqis agree on a political, economic and cultural agreement and implement it, said the former US ambassador to Syria. He believed this would occur when the future governmentâs political system provides all groups equal decision-making powers. Djerejian, a former US State Department expert to the Middle East, served under former US President George Bush Snr's administration. Speaking to Aljazeera.net, he said he had asked Kurdish leaders Jalal Talabani and Masud Barzani in 1991, about their aspirations in Iraq. "They said in their hearts, they wanted an autonomous country, but in their heads they knew this was not possible," he said. They understand that the creation of a sovereign Kurdistan would unleash havoc with neighbours Syria and Turkey, who host Kurdish populations, said the career diplomat.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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Some 10 months into the war, US-led forces have yet to restore stability and security to occupied Iraq.
Some 14 centuries into Mohammed's war with civilization, stability and security has yet to be restored in any part of Dar al Islam
The invasion, not authorised by any UN resolution
After 14 centuries, UN authorization is still lacking for Mohammed's invasion of Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddist, Animist, and Atheist lands.
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 1:35 Comments ||
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How do they know? They've never seen one... Arab League (AL) Secretary-General Amr Moussa said that the coming Arab summit, due in Tunis in March, will discuss proposals on restructuring the AL and reforming the Arab joint action institutions. Following a meeting in Amman, Moussa told Al-Gomhuria daily that the Arab countries welcome the proposals forwarded by the General Secretariat and some Arab states to restructure the AL, noting that the AL reform is carried out upon the decisions of the Arab Summit in Beirut, in addition to reviewing the role of the AL Economic and Social Council. The AL welcomes every effort that serves the Arab integration, as well as welcoming the Aghadeer Declaration due to be signed within days to establish a free trade zone among Egypt, Jordan, Morocco and Tunisia, he added, noting that all Arab countries can join this zone in the future. On the relations between the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) and the AL, Moussa said that the GCC comprises countries that are enthusiastic for modernizing the AL, however some other countries are opposing such an idea. Moussa noted that preparations are underway to hold an extended meeting of the Arab joint action institutions under the umbrella of the Arab Economic Unity Council for discussing means to encourage the private sector and the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs) to implement projects under the Arab unions for consolidating the Arab integration. On the accusations leveled against the AL, he said that the AL has exerted strenuous efforts along 60 years, however the League faces some hurdles that are being dealt with.
There appears to be a difference between the exertion of strenuous effort and the achievement of any actual results. I'm not sure what it is...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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Clearly the Gulf States have been extraordinarily successful in opposing a strong Arab League!
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 0:21 Comments ||
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#2
It's all about wheather an Islamic state should collect rocks or not. If an Islamic state collects rocks should the rocks be blessed? If an Islamic state decides to not collect rocks is that un-Islamic? Well it depends. One must ask the learned, the iman, or one who can tell you what to think. Remember "I think therefore I am."
#3
The GCC has the oil. The AL has the seething masses. Much tea will be drunk in open session, and much more Glenlivet and Chivas in other venues. The seething will be ignored. Many committees will be formed. The NGOs will supplicate and pander and put a liplock on the privates of all important attendees, kneepads optional. Scholars of Islam will bless the proceedings, after blessing the rock collections (!!!). A grand time will be had by all. Truly, this will be a significant event - as is the case with all other Arab organization events. Allah, may bees pee upon Him, will be pleased. Lucky will finally come clean and tell us what he thinks. The sun will shine and flowers will bloom, Grid Willing.
Saudi Arabia has launched a program to bolster its military and security forces amid the intensifying threats from Al Qaida and neighboring Iran. Saudi officials said the kingdom has drafted a plan for the training of tens of thousands of Saudi high school students that would prepare them for the military and National Guard. The sources said the plan has been approved by the Defense Ministry and Interior Ministry and would be implemented during 2004. Under the plan, the kingdom intends to train 10,000 high school students a year in both military and technical courses. Officials said the project would cost about 270 million riyals [$70 million] a year. They said the project aims to continue through 2008. The training would seek to improve the technical skills of the students so that they could replace foreigners in both the military and defense industry. The Saudi military and National Guard have large numbers of foreigners, including Egyptians, Pakistanis as well as Western instructors.
Thinking about ceasing hiring mercenaries to defend the country, are they? Going to reintroduce that old-time martial ardor in the breasts of the nation's yoot...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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The training would seek to improve the technical skills of the students so that they could replace foreigners in both the military and defense industry.
They could fix their military in a better way if they just instituted shop class in high school, and made every youth take part. Then they'd finally have a class of auto mechanics, sheet metal workers, lathe operators, etc. who could repair military equipment. Those youths would have a more practical view of the world (since if it doesn't work it doesn't matter) and might nudge the Magic Kingdom a space or two towards reality.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 0:24 Comments ||
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#2
Sounds like the royals need a new cadre of dependable cannon fodder.
#3
4 years at $70M / year? Heh, that's a good one. If it was that easy, even the Eeeewwww would have a credible military force in their future. They don't. Neither do the Saudis.
A little money and a little time won't undo 14 centuries of stupidity. A professional force takes decades - even in the West where those innate values needed: trust, delegation, initiative, guts, desire, free thought, forgiveness for error, discipline, hard training, espirit de corps, and the myriad other aspects that lead to a kick-ass flexible self-policing self-teaching quick-learning compassionate military force that requires no micro-management. They have several generations to go to even reach the starting line for such a venture. Go ahead, replace the foreigners. Saudi-ize your military to complete your transformation back into Bedu, since the whole infrastructure will revert to desert once accomplished. This be yet another Royal Joke. *golf clap*
#4
...Actually, they'll be lucky if they can undo the last forty years. The Army has pretty much consisted of Saudi yoots who literally could NOT get into anything else - the Air Force and to a lesser extent the Navy are considered much more prestigious. The Saudi National Guard - actually the royal family's private army, the rough equivalent of a light armored brigade and almost 100% Bedouin - is really the only military unit the royal family trusts. It will be VERY interesting to see what they come up with.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
01/11/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#5
I could just see a Saudi army - all officers (of course)
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/11/2004 11:12 Comments ||
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#6
are they training them to be suicide bombers,thats what the soddies normally do isn't it,oh no wait perhaps there getting lessons on how to fly commercial aircaft (leaving out the landing training though thats not needed for thier mission.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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#7
I believe Saudis military guys have traditionally been carefully vetted for political reliability before being hired. I'm not sure giving a bunch of potential al Qaeda recruits military training is such a wonderful idea. Are the Saudis trying to make up for the loss of Afghanistan as an al Qaeda base? (OK, I have a dirty mind - but these guys are truly capable of anything).
EFL Ibrahim Nawar, an Egyptian, is the Head of the Board of Management of Arab Press Freedom Watch, a non-profit organisation based in London that works to promote freedom of expression in the Arab world.
(the difficulty of which is illustrated by the BBCâs censor of the truth - its 1000x worse in the Arab world)
"I fully support Robert Kilroy-Silk and salute him as an advocate of freedom of expression. I would like to voice my solidarity with him and with all those who face the censorship of such a basic human right. the standards of these countries are what the BBC aspires to...
"I agree with much of what he says about Arab regimes. There is a very long history of oppression in the Arab world, particularly in the states he mentions: Iran, Iraq, Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, as well as in Sudan and Tunisia...
Posted by: mhw ||
01/11/2004 8:10:57 AM ||
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I agree. Kilroy is free to express himself. However, when one is dealing with communities and religions one has to be careful so as not to hurt the feelings of the other.
It is far more important to say the truth than to worry about hurting someones feelings.
We live in a world where reality is harsh, and nature is not always your friend. To deny life-saving truths is illogical and immoral.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/11/2004 8:29 Comments ||
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#3
oh faisel when will you open your eyes and ears and see the anti western and anti jewish comments that continuasly flood out of not only the middle east but also of our own papers here in England.Kilroy was not inciting violence as you lot are trying to suggest,he just spoke his mind (and the truth) and is perfectly intitled to do so.Just because you and a few others don't like what he said (because the truth hurts) it dosn't mean he should be locked up.Christ the amount of crap we see about americans and jews being an evil empire and do we try and have them locked up - no because we know its a load of toss and we're not as childish as your lot.Piss of to pakistan if you love the Islamic regimes so much.I suppose your hero's faisal are abdul barrie atwan and tom paulin oh and i bet you were a Saddam appeaser too,one of those fuckwits who were determined to let the biggest killer of muslims stay in power,OPEN YOUR EYES or piss off.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#4
Tony: The problem is that there is a difference between opinion and truth. What a person says is what is his opinion which might be or might not be the truth. Take our friend Jon Shep here who thinks what he writes is gospel. People like him are the problem. I agree with you in that one should always speak the truth.
#5
"However, when one is dealing with communities and religions one has to be careful so as not to hurt the feelings of the other."
Fasil,me lad.
Why are you worried about"hurting feelings"
I don't see you whineing about my"feelings"when some Iranian Blackhat says I am the"Great Satan"and fit only for Dhimmituide or death.
What about the feelings of Jews when Louis Farrakhan(leading asshat of the Nation of Islam) called Judisiam a"Gutter Relgion".
I do not understand why I should give a damn how Moslems feel when most Moslems consider me beyond contempt and deserve nothing but slavery or death.
Is this a double standard(you know kinda like Moslems accuse the U.S. of doing with regards to Israelies and Palistinians)or are you just another dumb-ass bigot?
#6
yes faisal the fool of course i write what i think so do most however i don't think its Gospel material.Anyway faisal why do you constantly defend the 'religion of peace' when its so clearly warped and twisted and beyond help.Let me say again Faisal the truth hurts and you can't hack it.from now on i pronounce you 'Faisal the Fool'.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 10:09 Comments ||
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#7
Raptor: Well calling any religion 'a gutter religion' is totally un-acceptable and shows the gutter mentality of that person whether he is Farrakhan or anyone. Perhaps you should be more acquainted with Uncle Sam's foreign policy. A reading of the last 35 years of your foreign policy might be helpful as to why those blackhats call US the great Satan. this is just a hunch of course.
#8
Fasil,trying to change the subject will not work. You brought"hurting feelings"into this disscusion.
We are not talking about Farrakhan's stupidity, Blackhat bigotry or U.S. Foreign Policy.
We are discussing'hurting feelings'and you still haven't answered why I should care about your feelings when Moslems could care less how I feel.
If you insult me(hurt my feelings)I just call you an ass,if I insult Moslems(hurt their feelings)my ass can be Fatwaed.
#9
faisal the fool thinks America is the great Satan,well if this is the case then why the fuc havn't havn't they nuked all your buddies in Iran yet,i mean we could have done it the day the nut case religious freaks took over that country,surly Satan would have nuked them would he not.Once again Faisal the fool digs his hole deeper.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 10:55 Comments ||
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#10
Faisal, let's skip the last 35 years of American Foreign Policy, on the basis that throughout that time there was the very real threat of Global Thermonuclear War which leads nations to do things that in normal times would be anathema to them. The fact that you and I are still here to debate the issue is completely due to the United States actions over that period of time.
Now, is it or is it not the case that there are Muslims that think that non-Muslims are fit only for dhimmitude or death? If true, why do we not hear more Muslims decrying this?
We could go on and on, but the point is that people in the West have woken up to what Muslim holy men have been saying in mosques around the world for decades ("Death to Israel, Death to America, Kill the Jews") and we don't like what we hear. Politically correct speech codes and actions have meant that we weren't supposed to make comments about it in the past. This was a massive mistake on the part of the West. Unfortunately, the consequences of that mistake are going to be felt by the Muslim world unless Muslims themselves make the changes.
I suggest you read the following essays to get an idea as to what the current situation is;
Kilroy said things that some people find offensive - but they must be said. The Muslim (and by implication Arab) world, must realise that they got the attention of the West on 9/11, and the West generally speaking, doesn't like what it sees. The last people to do that were the Japanese.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/11/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#11
A reading of the last 1600 years of Muslim history might explain why many in the West are less than impressed.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 11:22 Comments ||
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"If a kafir person (non-believer) goes in a Muslim country, he is like a cow," explains Hamza. "Anybody can take him. That is the Islamic law."
"If a kafir is walking by and you catch him, he's booty," he says on one tape. "You can sell him in the market. Most of them are spies. And even if they don't do anything, if Muslims cannot take them and sell them in the market, you just kill them. It's OK."
Sheik Hamsa is free to express himself, but since he is 'dealing with communities and religions he has to be careful so as not to hurt the feelings of the other'. Right Faisal?
#13
Raptor: When you create countries like zion on basis of religion, systematically kill millions and forcibly occupy land, do not expect those people to be nice to you and sing in your praise. What Farrukhan said was wrong. But looks like the zionists did something wrong in 1947. they created israel in the wrong place :-).
#14
Crawford: Have you read Christian and Jewish history? How they butchered millions? Oh yeah, but you don't wanna talk about it right? And while yo
Gasse Katze: Let Hamza bark. Should take people like Pipes and Falwell to represent the average christian?. These twits do no not represent the Christians in general, the bigots that they are. I guess they are more cozy with zionists. BTW, do you know that the religion zionists follow thinks of Jesus as an illegitimate child of Mary. Guess you need to some comparitive study of religions.
#15
Why yes, Faisal, Christians can live with what the Jews may think about Jesus. Can Muslims live with the fact that Mohammed was a child molester and rapist who had these incredible revelations from Allah whenever it suited his selfish interests?
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 13:02 Comments ||
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#16
It's good to have someone like Faisal speak on Rantburg. It reinforces just how twisted, stupid, and totally ignorant the majority of the Arabs think we "kaffirs" are, while fully displaying their arrogant, warped, twisted, and not terribly intelligent ideas and thought patterns. It's gonna hurt the entire Muslim world really, really bad when the entire Islamofascist house of cards gets kicked apart and displayed for the sham it is.
Faisal: You claim the God of Abraham is the God of Islam. You lie. You claim you've been given the "green light" by "allah" to take over the world - guess what - again, you lie. We will not tolerate your shabby, 7th-century attempt to hijack Judeasm, and rewrite moral history. Islam is nothing but an attempt to rewrite God's Word, giving God's birthright to Ishmael, rather than to Isaac. It won't work. God will not be confused, and He will not be balked. You are free to say anything Fred will allow you to say (and he's pretty lenient), but the rest of us are also free to tell you just how stupid what you say is. I don't give a da$$ about your "feelings" - I want the TRUTH. Islam is a religion of suppression of the TRUTH. God - the God who created this universe - is getting really pissed at the crap coming out of the Middle East, and is working to give the place a thorough housecleaning. So sorry if that upsets your little applecart. If you don't like it, if you don't like what's happening, if you don't like how we think, touch shit. You have two choices: stay here and get whatever you deserve in response to your idiotic troll posts, or take your toys and go home - if you can.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 13:09 Comments ||
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#17
Mr Faisal
It is funny. If Israel killed millions then why it is that there are still Palestinians? Why it is that the Arab Israelis haven't been fleeing and are in fact the happier and freer of the Arabs.
But if you are so much into body count let's talk about the gassed Kurds, the impaled Algerians or the Afghans murdered by the Arabians or their puppets. You talk of stolen land. Let's first speak of what you stole to the Kurds, the Shias or the Berbers, let's remember that 90% of "Arab" oil comes from those stolen lands.
But last but not least let's speak of the millions, real millions, killed, enlaved and raped in South Sudan. When you will have given back the land you stole to the last acre, the illegitmiate oil money you earned, and that the South Sudanese will have inflicted rape for rape, murder for murder on their tormentors then we will speak about the Palestinians.
PS: It thinks bin Laden and the Seoud aren't happy about the Reconquista in Spain. But according to the Muslim chronicler when the Moors invaded "thirty thousand women of great beauty were sold into slavery". Allow me to think that if chronicler insisted on thir beauty it was because they were destined to be raped. Thus since the Egyptians want "compensation" for the Exodus how about indemnifying Spain? Say, an oil well for each oe of the thirty thousand women.
#18
looks like faisal the fool is at it again,this guys a real hoot.l bet you visit that fucin finsbury park mosque often don't you you maggot,go suck hook hands cock faisal you fool.
#19
BTW, do you know that the religion zionists follow thinks of Jesus as an illegitimate child of Mary. Guess you need to some comparitive study of religions.
So what? It didn't keep Muslims from accepting him as a Prophet.
And what makes you think we need religous studies? What we need are advocates of basic human rights. Know any in your Islamic community? Thought not.
#20
Arab culture has produced a version of history that would be histerically funny if not for the suicide bombers, intimidation, etc.
in the Arab world,
- the holocaust was a minor incident in history
- the protocols of the elders of zion is true
- the US action in Bosnia to protect muslims was really a form of genocide because the US didn't arm the Bosnians with tanks
- the US action freeing Kuwait was only to steal their oil
- the US action in Afghanistan was only to force them into drug dependency
- all the Christian and Jewish charity that has been used by Moslem victims of natural disasters has been done for some tricky reason
- the fact that Moslem charities don't help Christian victims of natural disaster is due to a Zionist conspiracy
- the moslem practise of enslaving Christian and animist Sudanese is another Zionist conspiracy
- no Christians, Jews or Zoroastrians were persecuted under the happy dhimitude
it would be considered a form of paranoid psychophrenia if not for the political correctness brigades;
#22
"When you create countries like zion on basis of religion, systematically kill millions and forcibly occupy land, "
Faisal,if your going to discuss things with inteligent,well read people like most of those on Rantburg(excluding myself).Then I advise you not you use bulls&^t and outright lies.
The Jews did not create Israel,the U.N. did.
If the Jews have killed millions why is there a single Paisltinian left alive.
As to forcablly occuping land,what do you have to say about Syria and Hezbola(you know those Paleos you think so highly of)occupation and control of Lebanon.
I wonder what happen to all the Lebonese Christians,Faisal.Could it be the are dead or ehnically cleansed.
I have to agree with that. Let the man speak, but don't drive him away. I want him to stay as an example of a "Moderate Muslim".
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 16:11 Comments ||
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#24
I forgot to add that, based on comments of members of the Syrian government, a lot of Arabs firmly believe that Israel kills hundreds of Arab children each day (they also believe that Hindus do similiar). This belief is reinforced by Al Jazeera which shows the same footage of a single death (even if the deceased died because of an Arab bullet) over and over again.
#25
Crawford: Have you read Christian and Jewish history? How they butchered millions? Oh yeah, but you don't wanna talk about it right?
Complete non-sequitor. Yes, I've read a hell of a lot of history, including some of the nastiest bits.
And ya know what? I'd rather stand up and say I'm an heir to Christian culture than Muslim "culture".
Oh, and as for creating countries on the basis of religion -- go look at the history of Pakistan. The "land of the spiritually pure" was created because a bunch of Muslims couldn't stand the idea of having Hindu neighbors.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 16:33 Comments ||
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#27
And the massacre at Hama? Arabs are certainly not innocent parties in the Palestinian cause. I'de reckon they're far more guilty of the plight of that group than anyone else. Of course, some people just choose to see things differently.
#28
I agree. Kilroy is free to express himself. However, when one is dealing with communities and religions one has to be careful so as not to hurt the feelings of the other.
Hey Faisal you blithering F***wit, how does that square with your statement you want to see Zion annihilated and all the Jews shipped to the US hmm? I guess logical fallices and cognitive disonance is a recurring problem for you or perhaps its because you dont see judaism as a religion or perhaps its simply because I'm right in calling you a blithering bigotted f***wit.
Posted by: Val ||
01/11/2004 21:58 Comments ||
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A British officer who made headlines with a stirring eve-of-battle speech to troops preparing to fight in Iraq has resigned from the army, a newspaper reported. The Mail on Sunday said Col. Tim Collins, 43, had handed in his resignation last week and was expected to leave the army this summer after 22 years of service. Collins, who commanded the 1st battalion of the Irish Guards, was often photographed smoking a cigar and wearing designer sunglasses. He galvanized his troops in Kuwait before the war with a speech that urged them to do their duty while treating the enemy with respect. "Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory," he said. Prince Charles was so impressed that he wrote to Collins to say how "profoundly moved" he was by the "extraordinarily stirring, civilized and humane" speech. It was a great speech. You can find it here.
Collins was investigated for war crimes after a U.S. Army reservist accused him of mistreating Iraqi prisoners, but was cleared of any wrongdoing. The Mail on Sunday quoted Collinsâ wife Caroline as saying he was disillusioned with changes in the armed forces. "Tim is no longer convinced that the army reflects the country with the fourth largest economy in the world," she was quoted as saying. "He fears it is becoming a cottage industry. Heâs worried it is being crippled by political correctness, petty bureaucracy and the refusal of politicians who send British soldiers to war to give them enough money to do their job." There may not be anyone left in Britain to thank this man, but I will thank him. Thank you, Tim.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 12:44:08 AM ||
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#1
Pollitical correctness must, at least, be payed it's due. Bow down then cross yourself. Once consecrated, sky's the limit.
#2
There's one at least (actually a bloody lot of people).
Is there a limit as to how much PC shit a people can stand?, in the UK we're someway behind the curve here, can any US RantBurgers reassure me that this Orwellian nightmare is about to end?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/11/2004 4:02 Comments ||
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#3
the guys spot on with his comments about are forces becoming a cottage industry and especially the bit about being crippled by politacal correctness,Give him a medal, along with Kilroy.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 4:31 Comments ||
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#4
The guy is showboating jerk who wrote a good speech but that doesn't change the foregoing fact!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
01/11/2004 6:50 Comments ||
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#5
why's he a showboating jerk? Seems like a good guy who speaks his mind.Do you not think political correctness gets in the way of our armed forces,if you don't your very disillusioned.I'm not trying to start an argument but please explain the showboating jerk bit better.thanks.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 6:59 Comments ||
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#6
Sorry,Tony we are afflicted with the disease too.
#7
Tony, the only answer is for all of us, in our countries, to stand up and say we won't put up with this crap anymore.
And, if it gets bad, we may need to join forces in a single country to have a decent life. Come on over if you like - maybe we can save the States.
Posted by: tired of it too ||
01/11/2004 7:27 Comments ||
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#8
Good speech. But I like Admiral S. Woodwards' speech to the fleet before entering the Falklands Exclusion Zone. Essentially boiled down to "We told you at the recruiting office this might happen... you took the money, get ready to fight."
#9
raptor, TOIT,
I read a lot of US-based blogs (too many to mention), and get a general sense that the US people are getting fed up of the worst excesses of PC stupidity. Its not anything I can put my finger on, just an inkling - I'd hoped some RBers could give me some anecdotes on destroying the lies and deceit involved in PC thinking! :)
As to over here, we're lumbered with a Socialist government that is determined to give our country to unelected EU officials whilst at the same time creating 'hate speech' laws passed with no dissent.
But, we muddle on...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/11/2004 9:35 Comments ||
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#10
No one can stop the march of the
world Metrofemis. They come at you
from the front and rear!
The organization he says he's not involved with anymore...
In the debate program Krekar confirmed that Ansar al-Islam was behind a suicide attack in Northern Iraq on March 22nd last year, in which 3 people were killed. One of them was an Australian journalist. In the program on the TV channel Al-Jazeera on December 2nd last year, Krekar was introduced as Ansar al-Islamâs leader several times, without any protests from Krekar. The host of the program also adressed the Mullah several times as Zaim (leader in Arabic), without any protests, Aftenposten writes. Mullah Krekar took part in the debate from a studio in Oslo, while the other participants were present in the stationâs own studio in Qatar. Whenever Krekar was presented with written subtitles on the program, it was also as leader of Ansar al-Islam, the newspaper writes. Since Krekar was taken into custody early last year, he has the whole time acknowledged that he had been a leader of the fundamentalistic Islamic movement Ansar al-Islam in the past, but has said both publicly and to the police that he no longer has a position within the movement today.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:32:34 AM ||
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#1
they ought to shut al-jizz down,with a daisy cutter too.I'm sick of them
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 4:37 Comments ||
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#2
Whenever I see "Krekar" I think of MST3k and "Krankor".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:19 Comments ||
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A man arrested in an anti-terrorism sweep a year ago was studying how to make poisons and had hoped to produce the deadly toxin ricin, French authorities said Saturday. Menad Benchellali, who was arrested in December 2002, had tested toxins on animals in Central Asia. The official confirmed details that appeared in Saturdayâs Le Monde newspaper. The details about Benchellaliâs background came from suspects, mostly family members, who were taken in for interrogation over the past few days. Under questioning by police, suspects acknowledged that Benchellali had hoped to concoct a botulism toxin and ricin, a highly toxic substance derived from castor beans that has no antidote, the official said. Le Monde reported that authorities donât know whether Benchellali succeeded.
Benchellali was arrested in a sweep that authorities said thwarted planned bomb or toxic gas attacks against Russian targets in Paris, including the Russian Embassy. One of his brothers, Mourad, is among six French detainees suspected of ties to al-Qaida who are being held at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The sweep was part of a probe into suspected links between Islamic militants and rebels in Russiaâs breakaway largely Muslim republic of Chechnya. Investigators are trying to determine whether the Benchellali family and friends supplied explosives, false papers, money and lodgings to a terror cell that planned to attack Russian targets in Paris, probably with chemical weapons.
Benchellaliâs father, Chellali, an Islamic cleric, was taken into custody Tuesday at his home in a tough neighborhood of Venissieux, a suburb of Lyon. Others taken in for questioning included Menad Benchellaliâs mother; a brother, Hafed; and a sister, Anissa. Anissa Benchellali was released Saturday, as was Fatna Merabet, the wife of another jailed religious leader, according to their lawyer, Jacques Debray. Six others still being held are expected to be presented before a judge on Monday in Paris. A woman who answered the phone at the Benchellali family home declined to comment on the Le Monde report. "Weâre all still in shock," said Amel Benchellali, who said she was a daughter of the imam.
Also Saturday, about 150 people protested in Venissieux to criticize police handling of the arrests. Muslim organizations had asked people to gather in the areaâs market square, and organizers read a statement calling the arrest of Benchellali and six others "a message to intimidate all Franceâs Muslims." A banner read: "Tomorrow, who will be next?"
I dunno. Who's got the ricin?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:14:33 AM ||
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#1
"Tomorrow, who will be next?"
Who indeed? Maybe they should think about that before planning to attack the infidel. But then, cause and effect isn't covered in the quran, is it?
#2
Ah, Muslims. Incapable of comprehending that some of them might be assholes, they protest every little arrest and every little accusation. Up until the moment the evidence comes out, then they declare the guilty "weren't real Muslims".
Once the convicts are in prison, though, you can bet they'll have a nice market in inspirational tapes.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:00 Comments ||
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They had been watching him for months, aware that his pop star good looks concealed a secret life as one of Europeâs new terrorist kingpins. Finally, on a cold winter dawn, the police moved in. Abderrazak Mahdjoub did not resist as armed German officers surrounded his Hamburg home and led him away. For at least a year, investigators claim, the 30-year-old Algerian had been a key part of a network of Islamic militants dedicated to recruiting and dispatching suicide bombers to the Middle East. Several volunteers had got through, wreaking havoc in a series of attacks in Iraq. Many more were on their way, along with bombers focused on targets in Europe. Even worse, his associates were planning bombs in Western Europe. At least two European intelligence services had made previous attempts to take Mahdjoub out. Now, finally, it was the Germansâ turn. This weekend, just over a month after his arrest, Mahdjoub remains in prison at an undisclosed location. He is likely to remain incarcerated for some time.
Mahdjoubâs arrest was a minor victory in a major war being fought, bitterly and secretly, in cities from London to Warsaw, from Madrid to Oslo. It pits the best investigative officers in Europe against a fanatical network of men dedicated to the prosecution of jihad both in Europe and overseas. It is a war security officials know they cannot afford to lose - and that they know they will be fighting for the foreseeable future. Previously seen as a relative backwater in the war on terror, Europe is now in the frontline. âItâs trench warfare,â said one security expert. âWe keep taking them out. They keep coming at us. And every time they are coming at us harder.â Perhaps it might be time to relook the continued wisdom of allowing the likes of Captain Hook to roam about ...
An investigation by The Observer has revealed the extent of the new networks that Islamic militants have been able to build in Europe since 11 September - despite the massive effort against them. The militantsâ operations go far beyond the few individualsâ activities that sparked massive security alerts over Christmas and the new year. Interviews with senior counter-intelligence officials, secret recordings of conversations between militants and classified intelligence briefings have shown that militants have been able to reconstitute, and even enlarge, their operations in Europe in the past two years. The intelligence seen by The Observer reveals that:
Britain is still playing a central logistical role for the militants, with extremists, including the alleged mastermind of last yearâs bombings in Morocco, and a leader of an al-Qaeda cell, regularly using the UK as a place to hide. Other radical activists are using Britain for fundraising, massive credit card fraud, the manufacture of false documents and planning. Recruitment is also continuing. In one bugged conversation, a senior militant describes London as âthe nerve centreâ and says that his group has âAlbanians, Swiss [and] Britishâ recruits. He needs people who are âintelligent and highly educatedâ, he says and implies that the UK can, and does, supply them. Shut down and jug al-Muhajiroun, MIRA, HuT, and every other nutty group running their operations out of the UK and I suspect the appeal of London as a base will be significantly diminished.
Islamic terror cells are spreading eastwards into Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and the Czech Republic for the first time, prompting fears of a new battleground in countries with weak authorities, powerful criminal gangs and endemic corruption in the years to come.
Austria has become a central communications hub for Muslim extremists; France has become a key recruiting ground for fighters in Chechnya; and German groups, who often have extensive international links, are developing contacts with Balkan mafia gangs to acquire weapons. The investigation has also revealed that, despite moves by the government there to crack down, Saudi Arabia remains the key source of funds for al-Qaeda and related militant groups. Iâm sure weâre all shocked and chagrined at that revelation.
Damn! How could we have missed it? How could we have been so blind?
Investigators stress that most of the European cells are autonomous, coming together on an ad hoc basis to complete specific tasks. To describe them as âal-Qaedaâ is simplistic. Not really, since most of the cells and groups involved work for, were trained by, or are otherwise funded in some fashion by Binny or people who are known to work for him like Zarqawi. Read the Milan transcripts and it becomes quite clear that heâs the boss of the whole operation.
Instead, sources say, the man most of these new Islamic terror networks look to for direction is Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian Islamic militant who some analysts believe was behind the recent Istanbul suicide bombings against British targets and synagogues. Though he follows a similar agenda to Osama bin Laden, the 37-year-old Zarqawi has always maintained his independence from the Saudi-born fugitive. Last week, his developing stature in global Islamic militancy was reinforced when he issued his first-ever public statement, an audiotape calling on God to âkill the Arab and the foreign tyrants, one after anotherâ.
Actually, I expected more than just "God, please kill them all" from him...
Zarqawi is believed to be in Iran or Iraq. However European investigators have discovered that one of his key lieutenants is an Iraqi Kurd known only as Fouad, a cleric based in Syria, who handles the volunteer suicide bombers sent from Europe to launch attacks in Iraq.
That's what's known in the trade as a "minion." Sometimes they're called "henchmen." Just a little technical terminology...
Italian investigators made the first breakthrough in the hunt for Zarqawiâs operatives. Just after 10pm on the evening of 15 June, 2002, an unidentified Arab visitor from Germany - believed to be a senior figure in the militantsâ network - arrived at a mosque in the Via Quaranta, Milan. He began by warning the mosqueâs Egyptian imam, Abu Omar, about increased surveillance. He was unaware that Italian police were listening to his every word. Transcripts obtained by The Observer reveal that the visitor spoke of a project needing âintelligent and highly educated peopleâ. Already, the visitor said, that âwhere the jihad part is concerned there was a battalion of 25 to 26 unitsâ. It is these âunitsâ, believed by investigators to mean potential suicide bombers, that the authorities knew they had to find.
The Observer's a little slow on the uptake, aren't they? We ran this a month ago, and we got it somewhere else...
The visitor then began a review of recent developments. He stressed that âthe thread begins in Saudi Arabiaâ, where the bulk of funds apparently still comes from. âDonât ever worry about money, because Saudi Arabiaâs money is your money,â the visitor says. He then refers to recent âconfidentialâ meetings in Eastern Europe with Islamic militant leaders. âNow Europe is controlled via air and land, but in Poland and Bulgaria and countries that arenât part of the European Community everything is easy,â he says. âFirst of all they are corrupt, you can buy them with dollars...[Secondly] they are less-controlled countries, there arenât too many eyes.â The man named Austria as a launch pad for attacks. âThe country from which everything takes off is Austria. There I met all of the sheikhs and all our brothers are there ... it has become the country of international communications. It has become the country of contacts.â
I hope it's a country that's now swarming with counterterrorism agents, preferably licensed to slaughter...
Poland is a particularly important location too, the man says and names a âSheikh Abd al-Azizâ, before boasting: âHis organisation is stunning.â After translating the conversation, held in Arabic, Italian investigators immediately relayed the information to counterparts elsewhere in Europe. The British security services swung into action. The transcripts also reveal the continuing importance of London. âThe nerve centre is still London,â the man says and hints that there are many recruits from the UK: âWe have Albanians, Swiss [and] British.â
I thought Finsbury mosque was closed, but I guess they've got new centers open...
The role of the UK was reinforced when, last April, 29-year-old Somali-born Cabdullah Ciise was arrested in Milan days after arriving from London, where he had fled to escape Italian investigators months earlier. The Italians suspect him of financing a terror cell involved in the car bomb attack on Israeli tourists in Mombasa, Kenya in November 2002. According to Italian court documents, Ciise transferred money from Great Britain to Somalia through Dubai. He is also accused of being an important member of Zarqawiâs international terrorist organisation. A year earlier, in May 2002, Faraj Farj Hassan, the suspected leader of an Islamic terrorist cell in Milan, was arrested in Harrow, west London, where he had taken refuge with a relative who had political asylum. Hassan, 23, was arrested for immigration offences and is believed to still be held in Belmarsh high security prison awaiting extradition to Italy. And last November, an Algerian-born British national from west London was arrested after travelling to Poland. He was the subject of an Algerian arrest warrant alleging his involvement in a terrorist group.
And these are just the ones we're hearing about...
When the Italians arrested Ciise they put him in the same cell as another Islamic radical known as âMeraâiâ. Again, the conversation was bugged; it gives a chilling insight into the mind of a hardened militant. Meraâi tells Ciise that he hates their jailers: âThey like life, I want to be a martyr, I live for jihad. In this life there is nothing, life is afterward, the indescribable sensation of dying a martyr.â Then the pair talk about the Syrian-based cleric Fouad, whom they describe as the âgatekeeperâ to Iraq.
Omigawd! It's Vince Klortho!
Other transcripts reveal conversations between Fouad and Meraâi about how they had organised the flow of âbrothersâ to Iraq via the Syrian cities of Damascus and Aleppo. British suicide bombers who died in Israel last year travelled through both cities. One of the networkâs recruits is believed to have been involved in the rocket attack in October against the Baghdad hotel where Paul Wolfowitz, the American deputy Secretary of Defence, was staying. One phone call between the two reveals Meraâi telling Fouad that: âThis week more guests will be arriving ... they are good people.â Fouad replies: âI want those that are awake and prepared ... I want those who will strike the earth and make iron rise out of it ... Iâm looking for those that were in Japan [ie, kamikaze or suicide bombers].â
"I need mindless fanatics who don't mind being flying meat. Luckily they're cheap and easily replaceable..."
The Italian investigation yielded important intelligence and the focus shifted to Germany. After 11 September, authorities there had concentrated on rounding up all those connected with the âHamburg cellâ who had led the attacks on New York and Washington. Soon, however, they came across a group known as âal-Tauhidâ (the unitarians) which posed as grave a threat. Al-Tauhid were loyal to Zarqawi; indeed, many of their key personnel had trained in his camp in Afghanistan in the late 1990s.
"Tauhid," of course, is a German transliteration of "Tawhid."
According to an intelligence dossier compiled last year by German criminal intelligence, the link between the Italian network and the German cells was a 30-year-old Palestinian called Mansour Thaer. Another connection was a Turk called Mevluet Tar, a 23-year-old who spoke fluent German. Both were quickly picked up.
Noth are new to me...
The dossier lists a dozen senior al-Tauhid operatives in Germany. Most were involved in the provision of false passports or spent their time raising and transferring funds to fighters in the Middle East. But others, many still at large, were involved in plotting bomb attacks against Jewish targets in Western Europe. At least one militant liaised with Albanian mafia gangs in a bid to obtain weapons, the dossier reveals. Only a handful of the individuals named in the document have been arrested.
The cells specialize. Zarqawi — or his regional controllers — orchestrate and coodinate their activities...
Last week there were more arrests. In Paris a group alleged to be recruiting fighters for the war in Chechnya was picked up. In Switzerland a series of raids broke up an alleged support and fundraising network which had connections to the men who set off bombs in Riyadh last May. In Spain, a favoured entry point into Europe for North African militants, investigators continue to chase down terrorists linked to cells rounded up earlier. A Moroccan cleric called Mohammed al-Garbuzi, whom local authorities claim was a key figure in the Casablanca bombings last May, is believed to be at large in the UK. Scotland Yard last week warned leaders of the Jewish community that the threat âremained highâ. Senior British police officers said they are aware that millions of pounds are being raised in the UK by credit card fraud for Islamic militant groups. âWe act when we can,â said one police source. âBut we are stretched enough going after the clear and immediate threats, let alone their back-up.â Security experts stress that the campaign to prevent another major bomb attack in Western Europe has got no easier since major round-ups after 11 September. âWe are dealing with something that is organic, not mechanical,â one told The Observer . âYou canât remove a part and watch it all break down. Itâs more like fungus. Burn some away and it just keeps growing somewhere else.â
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:07:56 AM ||
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#1
Shut down and jug al-Muhajiroun, MIRA, HuT, and every other nutty group running their operations out of the UK and I suspect the appeal of London as a base will be significantly diminished
Another step they should take is to deport the hundreds of Islamists wanted by at least a dozen other countries. Unfortunately they won't as long as the poor little terrorists run the risk of being tortued of executed.
But if they ever did do it, it would put the fear of Allah into the Islamists and send them scurrying out of Britain pretty fast.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
01/11/2004 0:15 Comments ||
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#2
It would be a real shame if there were a sudden epidemic of Extra Holes In The Head Syndrome. You would think at least a few of them would be clumsy enough to fall in front of a train every now and then. Or one of them double-decker buses. Or go for a walk on the autobahn. But the euros are softie leftists these days. Guess they don't want to piss off their erstwhile allies.
#3
Sadly, our cousins have failed to fully learn the lesson of Neville Chamberlain regards appeasement. It's not that Churchill didn't do his best, it's just that they're rather forgetful... must be their proximity to Zerope.
When the jihadis reach the critical mass of stupidity, the UK will get its 9/11, its Bali, and then it will awaken and the surprise, at which we will marvel, will be genuine - and only surpassed by the outrage. Same for Germany and its overt Wahhabi "schools" and Academies. Same for Phrawnce and its satellite slums. Same for more future Russian theater performances. Same for the Swiss cuckoos. Same for all. The cumulative IQ of the jihadis is negative... can you feel it? It's your brain being sucked dry by the Black Hole of Islam. As with almost all establishment press, The Observer will never get it, as they already have a vaccuum between their editorial ears.
#4
All of the Observer's reporting is interesting, confirming and regurgitated from other reports but as long as the left-wing press still considers "them" militants and not dirtbag mass murdering terrorists it may all be for nought.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
01/11/2004 7:02 Comments ||
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#5
âDonât ever worry about money, because Saudi Arabiaâs money is your money
An official of an intelligence agency is being probed by the security personnel for his possible links with December 25 life attempt on President General Pervez Musharraf, an official disclosed to The News on Saturday. Sounds unpleasant
The suspect official is identified as Muhammad "Mahmoud the Weasel" Naeem belonging to the Special Branch (SB) of the Capital Police. He was detained on December 28 and is still being slapped around interrogated. Inspector General of Police Islamabad, Fiaz Ahmad Khan Toru when contacted confirmed that the intelligence official is under investigation. The suspect attracted investigatorsâ attention through the SIM of a mobile phone, which was in the use of Muhammad Jamil, one of the two attackers of the presidentâs convoy on December 25, sources said. Naeem was said to be deployed at the Convention Centre where President Musharraf presided over a function organised by COMSTECH. Investigators believe that it was Naeem who had contacted the suicide bomber Jamil on his mobile phone and informed him about the position of the presidentâs convoy. As many as 109 calls dialled to or from the suicide bombers, were detected during the investigation, the source said, adding the duration of all the calls was of three seconds except one of 12 seconds. "We have made a headway to the network through these calls", the source claimed.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
01/11/2004 12:11:33 AM ||
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Pakistani police are claiming to have identified almost all the suspects behind the recent assassination attempts on President Pervez Musharraf. The country's Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said on Saturday investigations were in the final stages. He however refused to specify how many suspects have been arrested so far. "We have reached their entire network and almost the whole case is in its final stage," the minister said. Ahmed also said the suspects in all probability had outside links. "It is not possible that they did not have links to people outside the country. This is what we are working on. Who were their masterminds?" he asked.
If he says it was RAW, we know they haven't gotten anywhere in the investigation...
Musharraf survived two assassination attempts in the space of two weeks. The first was made by blowing up a bridge his motorcade had used moments before and the second involved two cars loaded with explosives ramming into his motorcade. A close ally of the United States in its "war against terror," Musharraf has earned the wrath of Islamic hardliners who have accused him of selling out to the Americans.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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The six militants arrested in a Chauburji mosque last Saturday admitted during interrogations that they had planned suicide attacks on foreign consuls, imambargahs and mosques, sources told Daily Times. Sources said the intelligence agencies had been watching the militants for a while. When the six gathered at the Al-Hilal mosque in Chauburji, once the central office of the Harkatul Jihad-e-Islami, a joint law enforcement and intelligence agency team arrested them. The six men were identified as Qari Iqbal, the Imam of Masjid Alhilal, Qari Ramzan of the banned militant group Milat-e-Islamia Pakistan, (MIP) and four others from banned militant group Khuddamul Islam (KI). Sources said they were wanted for several terrorist incidents, including the assassination attempts on President General Pervez Musharraf. During interrogation, Qari Ramzan, who had a Rs 300,000 price on his head, and one of the KI militants said they planned terrorist attacks on foreign consuls, imambargahs, mosques and other sensitive places in Lahore. The militants are believed to be working on instructions from Malik Ishaq, one of the most wanted terrorists of the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. After the six militants were arrested, the authorities deployed extra police around mosques, petrol pumps and other sensitive sites. The bomb disposal squads, fire brigade and civil aviation were told to take protective measures.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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North West Frontier Province Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Secretary General Zar Noor Khan Afridi on Thursday condemned the ongoing operation against Al Qaeda at Kalosha in South Waziristan Agency, terming it a cruel act on the part of the federal government. Mr Afridi said the federal government had launched an operation against the tribal people and surrounded the area. He said the security agencies were harassing the whole tribal nation. The JI leader said the federal government operation was unconstitutional and a violation of human rights. He said President General Pervez Musharrafâs government had sold the freedom of tribal people to United States Federal Bureau of Investigation. Mr Afridi said the government was forcing tribesmen to rebel and was misrepresenting Islam and Muslims by its deeds, which were not in the countryâs interest.
JI can be counted upon to issue similar statements every time there's an operation that targets al-Qaeda. Purely concern for the human rights of the locals, of course. It's not like they have any sympathy for al-Qaeda and international terrorism. No, no! Certainly not...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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Qazi Hussain Ahmad has refused to continue in the office as Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) emir, but the party executive council has requested that he not leave the office, sources inside the JI informed daily Times on Saturday. Sources claimed that Qazi Hussain Ahmad in the executive council meeting on last Monday said that he was tired and his health would not allow him to continue.
Qazi's got kidney stones and a bad heart, both, I'd guess, the result of too much rich food. His rhetorical style consists of being indignant about most things, which can't help his blood pressure...
Mr Qazi was hospitalised last June for a heart problem and doctors had advised him to take a long rest. But Mr Qazi remained engaged in the activities of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) and JI. Now doctors once again suggested him to rest, sources said. According to the sources, JI leaders have urged Qazi to continue his office, since he is the only leader who can unite the MMA and boost party morale. Meanwhile sources said if Mr Qazi did not contest the upcoming election as JI ameer, then Syed Manawar Hassan, Prof Ghafoor Ahmad and Liaqat Baloch would be proposed as the candidates for the office. JI has 15,000 permanent members around the country that would cast their votes in the election. According to sources, preparations for the elections to be held next month have been started. The results will be announced in April.
My money'd be on Liaqat, who's the most thuggish of the three...
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
01/11/2004 12:08:00 AM ||
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Twenty people were wounded on Friday when suspected Islamic militants hurled a grenade at the mosque in a congested area of Jammu, police said. Several pro-India politicians were among the 200 worshippers in the mosque but they escaped unhurt. No group claimed responsibility for the attack.
Police said suspected militants shot dead two of their colleagues in an âinter-group clashâ in the southern Doda district late Friday. The motives behind the killings were not immediately known.
Indian troops shot dead three militants in two separate overnight encounters in the districts of Doda and Baramulla, a police spokesman said. He said the militant killed in Doda was active in the region for more than 10 years and was serving as dominant militant group Hizbul Mujahedinâs district commander.
Police also said suspected militants beheaded another officer in the frontier district of Kupwara late Friday.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
01/11/2004 12:06:23 AM ||
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Task Force âAll-Americanâ soldiers discovered a large weapons cache with the help of a local Iraqi civilian at approximately 9 p.m. Jan. 9. The man led them to a house in Ramadi where the following were found: 33 anti-tank and 16 anti-personnel RPG rounds, three RPG launchers, one crate of RPG propellant, 13 hand grenades, 40 fuses, a large quantity of small arms ammunition, one 82-millimeter mortar round, one 82-millimeter mortar tube with bipod and base plate, manuals to fire mortars, one empty light anti-tank weapon, thermal sites, 6,600 grams of TNT, 3,200 grams of plastic explosives, one .30 caliber machine gun, one 14.5-millimeter machine gun, one 37-millimeter anti-aircraft gun, one G3 machine gun, various machine gun parts, two complete SA-7 surface-to-air shoulder-fired missiles, 40 electronic blasting caps, 16 remote IEDs, six radio-controlled detonation devices, four emergency locator/transmitters, 349,000 New Iraqi Dinar and pro-Mujahadeen materials. and a partridge in a pear tree...
#1
wow seems like alot of them are wisening up pretty fast,hope they get rewarded as it'll encourage others to do the same.Another blow to the Baathists.Excellent!
A terrorist attack against innocent Iraqis was thwarted at the Tahrir Husseinia mosque in Baqubah when an observant mosque official decided to investigate a suspicious vehicle parked near the building at approximately 2 p.m. Jan. 9. The official asked people in the area and those at prayer if they knew who owned the unfamiliar automobile. He went to the extent of asking for information about the car over the mosqueâs loudspeaker. When no one claimed the vehicle he contacted the Iraqi Police. The police responded and discovered that the vehicle was in fact a potentially deadly car bomb packed with 250 pounds of plastic explosives and three 130-millimeter artillery rounds with a remote control detonator wired to the carâs antenna. The Iraqi Police immediately requested assistance from 4th Infantry Division, 588th Engineer Battalionâs explosive ordnance disposal team and quickly evacuated people from the mosque and the surrounding area. With the assistance of the Iraqi Police bomb squad, the 588th EOD team successfully disarmed the device. The vehicle was moved to a secure location for further inspection and investigation.
The targets of a 588th Engineer Battalion early morning raid on Jan. 10 in Baqubah, were a father and his six sons suspected of being involved in attacks against the Coalition. The father and three of his sons were captured without incident. A woman was also detained. When the detained woman was searched by a female soldier she was found to have, hidden within her clothing, four hand grenades. Additionally, the soldiers located and confiscated four AK-47 assault rifles, a U.S.-made body armor vest and Iraqi Civil Defense Corps (ICDC) uniforms in the house.
Earlier in the evening on Jan. 10, the 588th Engineer Battalion conducted another raid in north Baqubah and captured two people suspected of being weapons dealers. One of those captured was a local sheik. The soldiers located and confiscated three AK-47 assault rifles, one pistol, one hand grenade and 11 million Iraqi dinars. The soldiers also found a brief case filled with identification cards, including one of the captured individualâs Baath party cards.
In Taji, Iraq, information from an Iraqi citizen about a possible weapons cache brought 5th Engineer Battalion soldiers to a house in Taji during the afternoon of Jan. 10. The soldiers searched the house and found 418 C5M rockets, 260 rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), 250 82-millimeter mortars, 50 57-millimeter mortars, 65 120-millimeter artillery rounds, 15 PG7 anti-tank rounds, 13 cases of 7.62-millimeter ammunition, 30 hand grenades, and 100 rounds of 7.62-millimeter armor piercing ammunition, 2,000 additional rounds of automatic weapon ammunition, 30 grenades and four rifles. The site was also used as an improvised explosive device (IED) factory. Soldiers found nine 155-millimeter artillery rounds that were configured as IEDs, as well as a bag of black powder with a time fuse attached. Additional IED-making material confiscated included five command detonation systems, four remote detonation systems, four blasting caps, several feet of time fuse cord, several feet of detonation cord, four push button switches used in the production of IEDs and 16 crates of plastic explosives. Two individuals in the house were detained.
Cripes. How the two individuals fit in the house with all that ordnance? I sure as hell hope they were non-smokers...
#1
wow enough weapons have been swooped up today to equip a small army,cool work again.Especially good that it was an IED factory busted down.Must be people tipping us off and good on em too,probably sick of innocents being maimed.Also wonder how big a 'crate of plastic explosives' is, 16 crates of them must be a hell of alot of it.Nice.
IMHO explosives should be detonated in the house or vehicle where they're found. So as not to boom the whole neighbor hood, remove the extra explosives as well all ducklings, kittens, kiddies, etc. Takes the fun out of being or abetting an "insurgent". Hearts and minds will follow.
#4
Dont want the kiddies tho, won't fit in the microwave.
Seems Saddamn didn't have any problem - he'd just run 'em through the shredder a couple of times, spoon out what he needed, and microwave away...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 21:32 Comments ||
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Soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) and the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps (ICDC) captured several anti-coalition suspects Jan. 10 and 11 in northern Iraq. The 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) detained three individuals in a white Toyota, Jan. 10, near the southeastern corner of a U.S. compound west of Qayyarah. The vehicle matched the description of one used by men who asked the leader of a nearby village where they could set up rockets for an attack on U.S. forces.
During pre-dawn raids in Northern Iraq Jan. 10, the divisionâs 2nd BCT conducted a joint cordon-and-knock operation with ICDC soldiers and detained an associate of a suspected weapons dealer. In a cordon-and-search later that morning, 2nd BCT captured eight suspected members of an anti-Coalition group involved in attacks on U.S. forces. That evening, an unknown number of people fired small arms at ICDC soldiers on guard at the Mosul airfield. The soldiers fired back and the enemy fled. The 2nd BCT responded providing a cordon around the area where the attack originated. The ICDC charged in, cleared buildings, and apprehended four individuals.
The behavior of the ICDC is a real indictment of Sammy and of all the other ham-fisted Arab rulers in the area. Properly led and motivated, the individual soldiers can be brave to the point of recklessness — not necessarily a good quality at its extreme, but desirable when it comes to building a fighting force. Baathism, theocracy and other forms of authoritarianism don't make for the best officers, though they do put on some impressive parades.
The 2nd BCT also reported that its soldiers detained a man in the vicinity of Bashiqah, a small town near Mosul. The man was a suspected leader of a group promoting attacks on Coalition Forces. Also yesterday, the Coalition for Iraqi National Unity turned in five RPG launchers, 100 RPG rounds, five hand grenades, and one 60-millimeter mortar system.
This is what happens when a country goes to hell.
Trust me.... if I decide to commit sideways it ain't gonna be in a White Toyota. I'll break into the Tallahasse Car Museum (really) and steal the 917-K andride.
U.S. troops arrested a Saddam Hussein loyalist early Sunday suspected in last monthâs shooting of an American soldier who was saved by his flak jacket, the Army said. The manufacturer of these vests needs to do some cross-marketing with the sportsgear makers. "Shoulder pads -- can stop a bullet from an AK-47! Imagine what itâll do in a game!" (note: American football uses protective padding, unlike rugby & non-American football) :-)
Acting on a neighborâs tip, soldiers arrested the man in a raid on his home in Saddamâs hometown of Tikrit, said Lt. Col. Steve Russell, commander of the 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment of the Armyâs 4th Infantry Division. "Thanks, neighbor!" sez the Army of Steves!
The soldier allegedly shot by the Iraqi, Sgt. Jeffrey Allen of Leitchfield, Ky., made the arrest, Russell said. Russell described the Iraqi man, whose identity was not revealed, as a member of Saddamâs former Fedayeen paramilitary fighters. A.K.A. losers
Allen was shot twice in the back on Dec. 30 during a patrol in Tikrit. He was saved by the protective back plate in his flak jacket, Russell said. Soldiers also seized an AK-47 assault rifle, ammunition and several photos of the detained man posing with Saddam and the deposed Iraqi dictatorâs late sons. And, heâs a stupid loser, too...
Also Sunday, Iraqi police surrounded at least two Tikrit hotels and arrested several men calling themselves migrant workers. The soldiers suspected the men of belonging to the Badr Corps, the military wing of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Sgt. Bryan Luke said. Their clever ruse was uncovered when Sargeant Martinez realized that they spoke Spanish with a Peruvian accent
It was not immediately clear how many people were arrested in the operation or their countries of origin. "My name is Jose Jimenez al-Tikriti"
#1
thats top justice when the guy he sneakly shot in the back comes back and nabs him - brilliant.I'm very impressed by the Army of Steve. Also nice to see he was grassed up by his neighbour too,bet he thought he was safe as houses and untouchable, now he's sat in a prison with a long stay there ahead of him,wonderfull stuff.
#4
Me & Faisal are still seething over the shame of Saddam's cowardly arrest, not to mention all of the other setbacks to Islam over the last few centuries. At least shooting a soldier in the back is more, um, Islamic heroic than meekly surrendering when found hiding in a hole. Me & Faisal are going for a sasparilla, now. Later I will report his comments to my Jooo Masters.
Slightly EFL, emphasis mine.
The 1949 Geneva Conventions on the conduct of war, endorsed by 191 nations, including the United States, spell out legal and other rights of prisoners of war which the International Red CrossThingy say apply to Saddam Hussein. Here are excepts from the convention covering treatment of POWs. In general, it requires the detaining power to give POWs the same legal treatment it gives its own soldiers. The United States is the detaining power in this case.
Article 84. A prisoner of war shall be tried only by a military court, unless the existing laws of the Detaining Power expressly permit the civil courts to try a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power in respect of the particular offense alleged to have been committed by the prisoner of war. So if the detainees in GITMO are given POW status, they must be tried in military tribunals.
In no circumstances whatever shall a prisoner of war be tried by a court of any kind which does not offer the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality ....
Article 99. ... No moral or physical coercion may be exerted on a prisoner of war in order to induce him to admit himself guilty of the act of which he is accused. No prisoner of war may be convicted without having had an opportunity to present his defense and the assistance of a qualified advocate or counsel.
Article 101. If the death penalty is pronounced on a prisoner of war, the sentence shall not be executed before the expiration of a period of at least six months. ...
Article 102. A prisoner of war can be validly sentenced only if the sentence has been pronounced by the same courts according to the same procedure as in the case of members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power. ...
Article 103. Judicial investigations relating to a prisoner of war shall be conducted as rapidly as circumstances permit and so that his trial shall take place as soon as possible. ...
Article 106. Every prisoner of war shall have, in the same manner as the members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power, the right of appeal or petition from any sentence pronounced upon him. ...
Article 126. (The delegates of the International Committee of the Red Cross Thingy) shall have permission to go to all places where prisoners of war may be, particularly to places of internment, imprisonment and labor (labor is leagal - get out the orange jumpsuits we have found our IED detectors streetsweepers),
and shall have access to all premises occupied by prisoners of war; they shall also be allowed to go to the places of departure, passage and arrival of prisoners who are being transferred. They shall be able to interview the prisoners, and in particular the prisonersâ representatives, without witnesses, either personally or through an interpreter. ... Must be why Iraq never signed the accords.
(They) shall have full liberty to select the places they wish to visit. The duration and frequency of these visits shall not be restricted. Visits may not be prohibited except for reasons of imperative military necessity, and then only as an exceptional and temporary measure.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 11:58:01 AM ||
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#1
Why, it's almost as if we designated Saddam to be a POW so that we could try him in a military tribunal, give him the needle, and do so with the blessing of the most sacrosanct of International Lawâ¢.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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#2
bloody international red cross are the biggest buch of ass holes going,the way they worry about thier poor little Saddam is absolutly sickening.If i see one of these fuckers in the street asking me to donate to them i'm going thrash some sense into him.All the money could go to decent causes yet they spend thier time helping out vicious former dictators.I say don't let the red cross see him just to wind them up.Wankers is the only word for people like them.
#3
Hey, everyone misses the joke: Saddam is not going to be tried for war crimes -- or "crimes againse humanity". He'll be repatriated to the duly empowered government of free Iraq who'll try him for murder (several hundred thousand counts).
Posted by: Norman Rogers ||
01/11/2004 21:02 Comments ||
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#4
Would the reps from the Red Thingy have to travel to Baghdad to visit Sadaam?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 21:44 Comments ||
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During the last 24 hours, the 82nd Airborne Division and attached units, also known as Task Force "All American" conducted 199 patrols, including 13 joint patrols and conducted six offensive operations. Task Force "All American" had nine contacts initiated by the enemy; three improved explosive device attacks, three rockets propelled grenade attacks, two direct fire engagements and one mine strike. None of the attacks were effective. The task force discovered and disarmed two IEDs before they could be detonated against us. Task Force "All American" forces captured 38 enemy personnel while suffering no coalition casualties.
Recovery of the UH-60A Blackhawk crash site continued today south of Fallujah. Investigations continue to assess what brought the aircraft down.
This morning at 9:17 a.m. 1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Divisionâs area of operation, soldiers were engaged with five RPGs and small arms fire northeast of Habbaniyah. The unit immediately returned fire. They established a cordon of the area, responded with ground quick reaction forces, and cleared the area resulting in the capture of 12 enemy personnel. They found ten fighting positions and recovered 50 RPGs lying on the ground.
This morning at 11:15 a.m. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regimentâs area of operations, elements of 1st Squadron conducted a raid on a business in Husaybah that was suspected of storing weapons and munitions for use against coalition forces. The operation was conducted successfully and resulted in the capture of 17 personnel and the confiscation of 22 RPG-7 rounds, four RPG launchers, one RPG sight, five grenades, two pre-made IEDs, one remote detonator, 7.62mm ammunition, and two radios. Interrogation on site led to the identification of a nearby cache that contained four 81mm mortar tubes, two 60mm mortar tubes, and four 81mm rounds.
#1
seems like the task force is really taking the fight to the eneamy,these attackers firing the five rpg's must be so thick witted to think they can get away with it,i'm betting they don't even have a basic grasp of military tactics and think that thier fighting against the Iranians still-when will they learn (never probably).Also interesting to see the IED's are getting less and less effective,are the troops deployed in Strykers and armoured Hummers or are the eneamy just finding it more and more difficult to build these divices with a shrinking stock of explosives? Don't suppose anyone knows how effective those special IED detection vehicals are proving and if thier finding many on the main highways with them? Of course they'll still be black days when the Allies lose troops to these fuck wits but over all they now seem to be verging on the incompitant.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 6:29 Comments ||
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#2
IED's are getting less and less effective
I'll bet something as simple as better road marching discipline has helped.
Anyone got a clue as to how many RPG launchers and rounds are in the area? Seems like we must have confiscated roughly a gillion of them.
#3
probably litterally thousands more rpg's out there but i'm not sure there's gonna be enough Saddam lovers left to fire them soon,they really seem to be losing alot of thier Baathist mates and thier confidance must be crumbling every time a group goes out but dosn't return,maybe they'll realise its pointless to resist but i doubt it there just to daft for that.we'll keep swatting them down and soon they'll be none left.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 8:53 Comments ||
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US forces have arrested dozens more Iraqis in continuing sweeps for resistance fighters. The sweeps, which took place across Iraq, also led to the uncovering of several substantial weapons caches. Paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division captured six men, suspected of being Saddam Husein loyalists, in an operation on Thursday in the western province of Al-Anbar. Also in Al-Anbar, paratroopers from the US 82nd Airborne Division opened fire on two men seen planting an improvised bomb. One of the men was killed and another injured, the military said. US officials also disclosed that their forces were attacked in Annah in the same province on Thursday. US troops from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment came under rocket-propelled grenade fire, leaving one soldier with a broken leg and shrapnel wounds. In northern Iraq, the 4th Infantry Division (4ID) captured a man said to have been responsible for killing eight Iraqi soldiers during the US-led invasion of Iraq early last year.
I don't know if that's a typo or if the guy was one of those shooting the fellows who wanted to throw in the towel...
Another five men suspected of "illegal arms dealing" were arrested by the 4th ID close to Iraq's eastern border with Iran, while a haul of 100 rockets was recovered near the town of Samarra. Separately, four men were captured by the 101st Airborne Division in northern Iraq during search operations around the town of Mosul, according to one statement.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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#2
makes you wonder when these stupid iraqi saddam lovers will realise they've lost,thier iq must be about 1.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 4:28 Comments ||
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#3
Jon, it goes something like this:
Baathist diehard: "Yar ! I fight to the bitter end !"
US troops: "Hokay" (Bang)
Baathist diehard: "Ow ow ow ! . . . Can I have a job ?"
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
01/11/2004 8:51 Comments ||
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#4
lol, excellant love the bit about 'can i have a job?' too. They'd be best off running to Syria to seek safe haven but even then it'll only be a matter of time before we roll into there too :) . I keep thinking of that song 'go west' by the petshite boys and am thinking this should be the US forces in iraq new song,hell if we go west and roll into syria with say 500 heavy tanks plus all the available air support these daft fuckers will probably follow us in there to there doom,kinda like killin two birds with one stone.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 9:00 Comments ||
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#5
I've read elsewhere that the guy who shot eight Iraqis during the invasion WAS shooting "deserters".
Odd, though, that I haven't heard any of the human rights groups condemning the practice.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:05 Comments ||
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#6
ah the old human rights lot, there a truly sick bunch who do thier uttmost best to try and get the sicko's locked up (thankfully) in Gauntaimo Bay to be realised and set free into society while all the time every one else is dead against the idea,just like the way thier so concerned about poor little Saddam and his treatment,whats the betting they condemm us when he gets tried and exicuted and say we he should have been given community service instead.Old Bin ladin most fund these guys - they seem to be on his side instead of ours,I feel nothing but disgust for these so called human rights groups when they act like this.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 9:17 Comments ||
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#7
CentCom post from yesterday? He was shooting deserters.
IN a dramatic show of military muscle, an Indonesian warship has blasted a contested island near East Timor with naval gunfire and a missile just weeks after peacekeepers left the area. A UN military report dated December 14, 2003, obtained by The Daily Telegraph, says a camouflaged helicopter bearing Indonesian markings fired a missile into the disputed outcrop, known locally as Fatu Sinai, before a warship pounded the tiny uninhabited island with heavy gunfire. The classified report compiled by UN military observers said the shelling was witnessed by more than 150 terrified East Timorese villagers. They live in Baoknana village on the Oecussi enclave, a pocket of East Timorese territory on the north coast of Indonesian West Timor.
Security analysts said the show of force marked Jakartaâs determination to stamp its sovereignty on the disputed island which it calls Pulau Batek. The outcrop lies just 5km off East Timorâs coastline at the western tip of the enclave. Since September 2000, the UN and East Timor Government have been negotiating with Indonesia over matters relating to border demarcation. "The Indonesian side has not fulfilled any of its commitments and within 60 days of the withdrawal of UN troops the Indonesian military flexed its muscles with this display," a senior UN security analyst familiar with Oecussi said.
A spokesman for Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said the Government was aware of the incident, but regarded it as a matter between Indonesia and East Timor. "We are pleased that the unresolved issues are being handled in constructive discussions between the two countries concerned," the spokesman said. Indonesia and East Timor are discussing land border issues, but maritime borders have not been raised. The December incident underscores the vulnerability of East Timorâs ill-defined maritime borders. East Timor seceded from Indonesia after a bloody UN-brokered ballot in 1999 that saw a massive majority of the population vote in favour of independence.
The brash display of gunboat diplomacy raises fresh concerns over the timing of a planned withdrawal of Australian peacekeepers maintaining security along East Timorâs main frontier with Indonesia. East Timorese eyewitnesses interviewed by UN observers said that about midday on December 14 an Indonesian warship carrying a camouflaged helicopter approached the island stopping within 100m of its southern tip. The helicopter then took off and the warship withdrew to a new position facing the island, but about 200m offshore. The helicopter then fired what is believed to be a missile that exploded on impact creating a pall of smoke. The warship, accompanied by a small patrol vessel, then sailed to within 400m northeast of the outcrop. From its new position it fired 13 rounds of high explosives from what the UN later said was a 40mm cannon. Two hours later an Indonesian jet fighter, believed to be a US-built F-16, flew over the island at an altitude of only 200m. Eye witnesses said that during the two hour incident the people of Baoknana were terrified with some fleeing into the hills.
#1
the fabled U.N did alot about it i see ,apart from keeping it a secret and writing up a few notes on it.Just what you'd have expected of this pathetic organization.Sorry just letting off some steam about the U.N - there almost up there with the red cross in my book of useless money grabbing organistaions.
#2
When the West tries to find Islamic states that are reasonable and we can deal with. Its just relative. They are all nasty and its just a matter of degree.
Were it my decision I would separate all the Christian majority areas at independence from both Indonesia and Malaysia. Of course these people don't have the media machine behind them like the paleos, even though their case is at least as good.
Thailand will investigate some private Islamic schools that are believed to have trained militants after a wave of violence in the country's Muslim south, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said.
Good move. A little late, but a good move...
Since the attacks a week ago, Thaksin has consistently attributed the violence in the region to criminals, not Muslim separatists some aides say are responsible. But on Sunday, Thaksin suggested there might be a link between Islamists and the raid on an army base and torching of 21 state schools a week ago that ignited fears of a separatist insurgency.
Holmes! Brilliant! How do you do it?
When asked by reporters if some private Islamic schools were being used to train militants, Thaksin said: "Of course. Our intelligence has to be better than this. We will not let them continue doing this kind of thing."
I suggest killing them. It brings a certain finality, y'know?
He said authorities would investigate the schools, but he gave no further details. "There is no one above the law. We allow everyone to practice their religion freely. But everyone must also abide by the law," he said.
Sounds like simple truth, but Islamists take issue with it consistently...
There are about 300 Islamic schools in southern Thailand, which is home to six million Muslims, or about 10% of the largely-Buddhist country's population.
It'd be best for all concerned if that number went to something on the order of zero...
Thaksin has dismissed statements by top aides that Islamists possibly connected to Jemaah Islamiah, the Southeast Asian network believed responsible for the nightclub bombings on the Indonesian island of Bali in 2002, were behind the attacks. Police say Bersatu, which in Malay means united, is an umbrella organisation linking several separatist groups, including the Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Pattani, the Barisan Revolusi Nasional and Pattani United Liberation Organisation. Some of these are thought to have links to Malaysian groups which in turn have connections to Jemaah Islamiah. Thaksin promised on Saturday to deliver a new wave of development help to the three southern provinces put under
martial law after the latest violence. The region is among the poorest in Thailand and has a history of conflict between Muslims and the security apparatus.
Y'don't suppose there could be a link between that poverty and the fact that the country's Muslims reside there, do you? When I lived in Thailand about 30 years ago, it wasn't a rich country in the modern sense. In those 30 years, it's modernized remarkably, from what I understand...
However, the intense manhunt by soldiers and a round-up of 300 suspects for questioning, including Islamic teachers, has fuelled resentment against the Bangkok government. The army released a statement on Sunday, denying reports that soldiers had disturbed Muslim graves while searching a cemetery for guns stolen during the raid on the army base. It said the soldiers had used metal detectors and remained outside the cemetery, located near the army base in Narathiwat province. "There are people with bad intentions who want to sow dissent in the community by perpetrating baseless rumours," the army said.
The charge of desecrating graves is pretty much pro-forma by now, isn't it?
"Some of these bad-intentioned people are trying to instigate and cause harm by using religion in order to cause further divisions between people who are working to improve the situation in the south in line with the government's plan," it said. Nevertheless, the security crackdown has deepened cracks between the Muslim community and government officials. "Generally speaking, villagers did not like seeing their spiritual leader detained," Islamic leader Muhammad Hajiwesahak told Reuters, following his release on Saturday after two days of questioning by police. "The relationship between government officials and villagers is quite distant. They come to villages only when there have been incidents. They did not maintain a good relationship during normal times," he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 11:54 ||
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Itâs the Joos you see. Not only do the Joos control the US government, the Neo-Cons, Hollywood, the American and European media, all the non-milatant Islamic governments, they also control the Malasian fashion industry. When do they find time to sleep?
PAS has defended the Terengganu governmentâs imposition of a dress code for women workers, saying that provocative dressing by women has âa very close linkâ to murders, rapes, molest and sexual abuses.
Possession of a pair of hooters seems to have something to do with it, too...
PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub also blamed Jews for pioneering a âprovocative, seductive and branded dressing cultureâ which prioritised the ego of the dresser. In a statement, Salahuddin said that Kelantan Umno deputy chairman Datuk Zaid Ibrahimâs protest over the ruling showed that he was anti-Islam and that Umno was a proxy of the Jews.
Malaysia, as we all know, is overrun with Jews. Just the other day they caught a half dozen hiding under an imam's bed in Kelantan...
âThe question of violating basic human rights does not arise when enforcing the compulsory rule of covering the aurat (parts of the body that should not be exposed according to Islamic belief),â he said. Salahuddin added that it was not a matter of rights but of responsibility to adhere to rules set by Allah.
"You have no rights but those Allah grants you through his spokesmen."
Zaid had said on Monday that it was illegal for Terengganu to impose such a dress code. He said that the local authorities had no right to control the freedom of Malaysians, as stated in the Federal Constitution, especially Article 5 (1), Article 8 (1) and (20). The Constitution do not state that Malaysian women were required to wear only one type of attire while at work, he said. He added that no one had the right to decide how a Muslim or non-Muslim should lead his or her lives.
Zaid appears to be proof that you don't have to park your IQ at the door when you enter a mosque...
The protest was made following the decision by Kuala Terengganu Municipal Council president Dr Sulaiman Abdullah on Sunday that non-Muslim women in the private sector could no longer wear short-sleeve blouses, tight-fitting jeans, long skirts with slits or mini-skirts during working hours. When contacted, MCA Wanita chief Datuk Dr Ng Yen Yen said that blaming provocative dressing as the cause of murders, rapes and other sexual crimes showed the narrow thinking of PAS.
It shows thinking?
Citing yesterdayâs news of the 10-year-old girl who was raped and killed on her way to school, Dr Ng said that modest dressing would not stop a criminal from committing a crime. She also said that there were many violent cases against decently-dressed women, including the brutal rapes and murders of Canny Ong and computer engineer Noor Suzaily Mukhtar. âThey were unfortunate victims and it had nothing to do with what they wore,â she said.
And everything to do with the mental processes of their killers. Perhaps Sulaiman Abdullah should give some thing to introducing a thought code for men? Though actually a societal expectation that they be able to control their impulses would do...
A caller, who wanted to be known as Jai, said that PAS should stop its obsession to reprimand women in every way it could. She said that PAS was oppressing women with the various rulings it imposed ever since the party came into power. âThe rulings mostly concern women. What about men and their dressing? Will they ban sports events, including football matches, since the athletes wear shorts and clinging T-shirts?â she said, adding that according to Islam, the aurat for men was the level between the navel and the knees.
Give them time. The Taliban did it. They want to be a Taliban clone...
Puteri Umno chief Azalina Othman had said that the crimes committed should not be related to dressing as even Muslim women who wore the tudung (head cover) were raped.
Posted by: tipper ||
01/11/2004 8:14:19 AM ||
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#1
If the problem is rapes and sexual abuses then a better solution would be to cut the balls of the perpetrators. Ooops, I forgot it is illiciit to touch a hair from Muslim ubermenschen.
#2
I'm sure the majority of women living in Islamic countries or areas ruled by Islamic law are raped.
Considering you need four 'pious' muslim male witnesses to prove you were raped, and can be jailed if you accuse someone of rape and cannot 'prove' it, most women just suffer in silence.
Add to this that a man can just say "If you refuse to let me rape you I will tell the authorities you blaspemed the prophet or Quran".
Add to this a woman being in public w/o a male 'keeper' is fair game and considered a slut already...well, you can guess at the amount of unreported rapes.
And Heaven help her if she accidentally shows an ankle.
Military intelligence agents captured a suspected member of the notorious Abu Sayyaf Group during an operation in Isabela City in Basilan last week, belated reports said. In a report to General Headquarters in Camp Aguinaldo, Maj. Gen. Trifonio Salazar, 1st Infantry Division commander, identified the alleged ASG member as Sonny Boy Hamsain, native of Basilan.
Salazar said government troops led by 2Lt. Allan Mangaser and 2Lt. Mark Espiritu were conducting security operations at about 4 p.m. Wednesday when they apprehended Hamsain. Salazar said Hamsain was reportedly employed at Basilan Dock Handlers Corp. at the Port Area in Isabela, but that was just a cover: he was allegedly also designated collector for the group of Khadaffy Janjalani since he joined the ASG sometime in 1992.
Collectors pick up the protection money...
Janjalani was accused of a series of kidnappings, mostly victimizing foreigners in Basilan where he operates. But during interrogation, Hamsain denied participation in any crime.
"Y'got nuttin' on me, coppers! Da witnesses is all dead!"
Lt. Col. Joselito Kakilala, Army spokesman, said Hamsain is also included on the national list of âmost wantedâ and a monetary cash reward of P300,000 is in fact offered for his capture. âHe is charged with criminal cases ... with the offense of kidnapping and serious illegal detention, issued by the Presiding Judge Danilo Bucoy of RTC 9, Branch 2, in Isabela City, Basilan,â Kakilala said in a statement. Authorities said Hamsain was being interrogated at the headquarters of 24th Special Company before turnover to the Isabela Police Station.
"Ooch! Ouch! Hey! Put that down! It's attached to me!"
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:27:01 AM ||
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#1
Did they get him at a toll booth on the turnpike?
THE second generation of Muslim terrorist leaders in South-east Asia is even more loony hardcore than its forbear. Regional intelligence sources said that the new and younger elite of Jemaah Islamiah (JI) is imbued with the strongest commitment to the terrorist groupâs cause of jihad or holy war. Many of them are the children of JI members and have been indoctrinated from younth in the organisationâs schools. âThey know no other reality than JI doctrines,â one source said.
The New Soviet Man or the Hitler Youth, with turbans...
Of the two Singaporean second-generation JI members arrested in October, one of them was the son of a JI member while the otherâs father belonged to the 12,000-strong Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), the largest rebel group in the Philippines. Among other trends which the regional intelligence sources disclosed are:
- JI is still actively recruiting like-minded people in Muslim circles, more in some countries than others.
- It wants to strengthen and augment the group with new blood at the top.
- Indonesia is JIâs breeding ground.
- Its members had hands-on training during religious clashes in Ambon and Poso in Indonesia.
- The major JI training grounds are in Mindanao in the Philippines and in Kashmir.
The major task of the second-generation leaders of JI is to spawn new terrorist cells, the sources told The Sunday Times. This is because the group, whose goal is to establish a fundamentalist Muslim state in South-east Asia, has been crippled with the arrests of several of its first-generation leaders and members.
I wouldn't have thought I'd say this in October, 2001, but much of the thanks has to go to the Indonesian cops. I'm not in the least impressed by their army or by their politicians, but the cops have got some competent people when they're put on a case...
A significant setback was the arrest of its operations commander Hambali, the mastermind of a series of bombings in South-east Asia, including the Bali blasts in 2002 that killed over 200 people. He is the JI leader most closely linked to Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, an Al-Qaeda leader based in Karachi who once operated from the Philippines. Khalid is now in US custody. In a further blow to JI, 13 Malaysians and six Indonesians who were being groomed as future leaders were recently arrested in Karachi by Pakistani security forces. They belonged to the JIâs Al-Ghuraba, or foreigner, cell. Two young Singaporeans training for leadership in the same cell were arrested when they returned to the Republic. Muhammad Arif Naharudin, 20, and Muhammad Amin Mohamed Yunos, 21, were schooled in handling weapons and explosives, urban warfare and espionage in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Promising careers, cut short at a young age... Well, not to worry. The Indonesians couldn't think of anything to charge their lot with.
Although down, JI is not out. It is actively recruiting like-minded people in Muslim circles who they think are radicals. âIt is not just cannon fodder they are seeking,â said an intelligence source. âThey want to strengthen and augment the group with new blood at the top. JI has been disrupted but it is still very much alive.â JI leaders and members have been keeping a low profile. Its members are careful to communicate by telephone through pre-paid cards or through the Internet, including chatrooms. The JI has been neutralised in Singapore, disrupted in Malaysia and lying low in Australia. However, it is active in Indonesia and the Philippines. Indonesia is JIâs breeding ground. There, it is enmeshed with the countryâs vice president political mood. JI members earned their combat stripes in hands-on training in religiously-divided Ambon and Poso, where they took part in bloody clashes between Muslims and Christians. Thousands have died in these clashes. The major JI training grounds are in Mindanao in the Philippines and in Kashmir. In Mindanao, the JI runs training camps in collaboration with the MILF.
"No, no! Certainly not!" responds MILF spokesman Lipless Eddie Kabalu...
Observers say Manila downplays the MILF-JI connection due to vested interests. It does not want to affect ongoing peace talks with the MILF. The challenge for the Philippines and other parties, like the United States, is to wean the MILF from the terrorists.
Maybe they should give some serious thought to killing all of MILF's top leadership, then killing all of its middle management...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:09:50 AM ||
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#1
JI leaders and members have been keeping a low profile. Its members are careful to communicate by telephone through pre-paid cards
How much would it cost for the CIA to start distributing its own "pre-paid telephone cards"?
Or to start a rumor that the pre-paid cards already in market are being monitored by MI5?
US Intelligence agencies have launched a worldwide manhunt for Al-Qaedaâs master bomb maker, who, they contend, may be building a "dirty" bomb and other new devices for terror attacks inside the United States. US counter-terrorism officials were quoted by the New York Post as saying that it was new information about the activities of Egyptian-born bomb maker Midhat Mursi, in part, that led the Bush administration to secretly dispatch Department of Energy radiological detection teams to New York and four other cities at New Yearâs eve. Before the Bush administration decided to raise the nationwide alert level to Code Orange, an Al-Qaeda informant had said that Mursi, who goes by the nom de guerre Abu Khabab, was active again, intelligence officials told The Post.
Khabab is Zawahiri's resident mad scientist, seen working with Zarqawi in the Pankisi Gorge, training bad guys in how to dish out ricin.
Intelligence officials said Mursi is a chemical engineer who was head of Al-Qaedaâs weapons-of-mass-destruction committee and reported directly to Al-Qaedaâs number- two, Ayman al-Zawahiri. He is believed to have gone underground before or during the 2001 Afghanistan war and is considered the most wanted Al-Qaeda figure after Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri.
If I was keeping the list, I'd put Zarqawi a step ahead of him, but go on...
Before the Afghan war, Mursi operated crude laboratories at an Al-Qaeda complex near Jalalabad, where satellite imagery showed scores of dead animals outside, victims of ghoulish experiments with anthrax and other biological and chemical poisons, US officials were quoted as saying. The Post quoted unidentified sources as saying documents found at the camp and at Al-Qaeda safe houses in Afghanistan and Pakistan also included, what one intelligence official called, "very innovative designs for explosive devices" â some designed to be carried aboard airplanes without being detected. Some documents, it said, indicated Mursi was exchanging information with Palestinian and Hezbollah bomb makers â including some who helped design the shoe bomb carried aboard a Paris-to-Boston flight by Richard Reid in 2001, sources said. Reid was overpowered before be could ignite the bomb.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:11:24 AM ||
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#1
Abu Khabab... LOL! What'll they think of next, Abu Secret Sauce?
I would imagine satellite photos of scores of dead animals got a quite a bit of circulation. This guy may end up being the one who finally lights the fuse that brings us out of the PC fog and into reality. I hope they collar him first, but finding one asshat in the whole world is asking a helluvalot - especially since he will definitely be protected and sheltered at all costs. Sigh. You know, we don't have to wait for this to happen...
There's this 40 km strip of land along the Eastern coast of Saudi Arabia...
#5
i think were entiltled to have a laugh at thier names and they can make fun of ours.Seriously though this guy sounds pretty dangerous and needs hunting down like the rat he is.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 9:03 Comments ||
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#6
Making fun of our enemies is a time-honored American tradition. Just ask Bugs Bunny or Spike Jones.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:13 Comments ||
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#7
Not only does Khabab sound like Kabob, but also Midhat sounds like Mad Hat.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
01/11/2004 10:19 Comments ||
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#8
Shipman, I couldn't really care less about PC sensitivity.
What I do care about is waking up my fellow US citizens and other Westerners to the serious, long-term threat we face from Islamacist fanatics and those who tolerate them. And things like making fun of Moslem names gets in the way of helping them to see that threat and take it seriously.
#9
rkb - WTF? Are you serious? How, um, asinine. The Abu monikers are not real names - or don't you realize this, yet? And exactly what do you have against Secret Sauce? Sheesh, how touchy can you get?
Get a grip. I DO post on the actual facts regards Islam - all the fucking time. I find your remark insipid and incredibly self-righteous. As for "hiding" my identity - why not? Do I need to invite another 50 Spam emails each day to satisfy your vapid sense of propriety? I suggest you take your soma. Cheap shot, indeed.
#10
My real name is Stephen Harold Donnelly. I have kept that a secret since 9-11 for fear that the jihadis might make fun of my middle name, but frankly I have decided that I no longer care if they do. Let a storm of boogers lodge in all their mustachios.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 11:11 Comments ||
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#11
Harold? Hell, that's not bad - you should've been born a Texan - mine's Calhoun.
#12
Calhoun? Now I can't stop grinning! It's nothing against you .com, but it's just something to grin about since you live in Texas.
BTW, am I the only one who thinks we should have a law against to many people named Muhammed?
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#13
Well, just to clarify, I was born in Texas... I don't live anywhere these days, so to speak - I've just started looking for a place to settle, now that I'm back in the US. LA today and Las Vegas tomorrow afternoon. I discovered Quizno's Black Angus sandwich last week - which has already made coming back worthwhile. 8^)
#14
Am I the only one who thinks we should have a law against to many people named Muhammed?
Let's not do that. "Allowing" them to name their children Muhammed, or changing their name to Muhammed, or adopting a nom de guerre of Muhammed makes them easier to spot, easier to run down. The next step is to capture all the "Muhammeds" in the world, sort them out (that's the tricky part), let the one or two halfway sane ones go, and hang the rest. The Wahabbi Islamic Group has declared war on us. Let's make it as hard as possible for them by eliminating their cannon fodder.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#15
Am I the only one who thinks we should have a law against to many people named Muhammed?
Let's not do that. "Allowing" them to name their children Muhammed, or changing their name to Muhammed, or adopting a nom de guerre of Muhammed makes them easier to spot, easier to run down. The next step is to capture all the "Muhammeds" in the world, sort them out (that's the tricky part), let the one or two halfway sane ones go, and hang the rest. The Wahabbi Islamic Group has declared war on us. Let's make it as hard as possible for them by eliminating their cannon fodder.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#16
Try and get an Arab to read the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA - translate this from the Arabic) and not break out in laughter (or a cold sweat if near a mullah). But we have a hard time reading their Journal of Injurous Stoning Medicine.
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 12:08 Comments ||
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#17
I suggest sorting the Mohammeds through a wire screen mesh, the finer the mesh, the better.
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 12:12 Comments ||
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#18
Calhoun.... of course, its all clarifying now. LOL JC Calhoun was something of a TrollSlicer himself. My Middle name is of course Calvin, First name Thomas... that's TC Shipman (Jr.) to you trolls with guts. BTW I live in a very nasty neighborhood.
#19
Make that Journal of Islamic Stoning Medicine. Sometimes an acronym is so obvious that it should be stamped on my forehead.
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 12:51 Comments ||
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#20
Well of course: SuperHose had to be a member of the Army of Steveâ¢! Nothing else would explain his obvious erudition and intelligence [I knew it all along].
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#21
As I recall on that fine day that SH first posted here.... he was Steve... and was notified the name was taken.. and taken.. and taken... thence the world learned of Super Hose! Super Hose and the Killer Whale!
#22
.com, yes I was serious and no, I don't think my comment was asinine or self-righteous. And while I have even less Arabic than Hebrew (and my Hebrew is fading fast so that's not a lot) I do know that many terrorists use nicknames &/or titles like Abu (father of) xxx which are not their given names.
But that's not my point. My point is that those of us who know we're facing a long, serious war need the support of other voters in our countries if we are to muster the sustained effort needed to win this thing. And while I can appreciate black humor and can rant sarcastically with the best of y'all, there comes a point where things like making fun of Moslem names also makes it hard to get through to thoughtful people who are on the fence.
Making fun of names from another culture - especially when it happens often as it seems to do of late on Rantburg - is indeed a cheap shot. It undercuts the important points you regularly make here.
I'll go further, too. The reality is that we will need, not only centrist / moderates in our countries to back this war, we will also need to find and encourage moderate Moslems in their countries too. Yes, yes, I know all about our nuclear and other capabilities - been there, worked on that, teach some of it to up and coming new officers right now - and yes we could turn a good part of the middle east and east Asia into melted pools of radioactive glass. But I for one want to WIN this war, not just endure it, and I want a functioning global economy afterwards, and that means I want functioning societies which will be made up in part of Mohammeds and Fatimas.
And oh yeah - I count a small number of people with those sorts of names among my friends and colleagues.
#23
rkb - Putting this all back into perspective - re-read my comment.
Out of all the snarkyness that constitutes the Daily Rantburg Interactive News, you pick one little semi-obvious play on words today to start your sudden campaign of "Now let's be serious, folks, it's important! Lookit me! See how serious and rational I am?"
LOL! Right.
I know it's important, perhaps better than you - certainly at least as well. You, your strained indignation, your sudden impulse to remake Rantburg to please yourself - to play PC Policeman, this dreadfully pointless morose stance, your implied self-importance and wisdom and gravity, and your Abu colleagues notwithstanding, this is just you having a go - for actual reasons unknown.
Knock yourself out pretending to be the only person hereabouts who's taking this seriously. Ditto for extolling the virtues of being inoffensive and so wonderfully inclusive - you get the Rantburg PC Defender Award. Ditto redux for the notion that you are somehow more privvy to how consequential the WoT actually is... Pfeh.
The truly ludicrous aspect of this is that there are 100 other comments made here every day which equal or exceed mine in those qualities which have offended you - at least by the reasoning you've presented. Your response is far more disingenuous than truthful.
Classic after-action ass-coverage for your incontinent brain fart.
So yeah, IMHO, the cheap shot was yours. And, if you insist upon pretending you aren't dissembling here to cover yourself, please allow me to add that you are henceforth permitted to kiss my ass. If this is simply an overblown mistake and you can swallow your pride as deftly as you stick your foot in your mouth - then that's fine, too - I can drop it. You pick. I'm certainly not going to change to please you.
EFL
Los Angeles eunich man who allegedly offered to circumcise young girls for undercover FBI agents posing as their parents was arrested along with his girlfriend on Friday in what prosecutors said was the first U.S. case of its kind. Coming Soon: Honor Killings! Todd Cameron Bertrang and Robyn Faulkinbury — who prosecutors say met with undercover FBI agents to arrange circumcisions for two fictitious girls — were taken into custody at their home outside Los Angeles. âHey guyâs, come on in. Did you bring the girls? You drink lemonade?â
"The evidence we uncovered about (Bertrangâs) lack of medical knowledge and the lack of sanitary facilities would have made this procedure extremely dangerous," said Thom Mrozek, spokesman for the U.S. Attorneys Office in Los Angeles. And not to mention...ah, er, uhm...illegal.
An affidavit filed in the case said that Bertrang, 41, referred to the 24-year-old Faulkinbury as his "slave" and told FBI agents they could see her circumcised genitalia. âShe volunteered! No, really. She did. I swear. More lemonade?â
Faulkinbury was allegedly planning to assist Bertrang in future mutilations surgeries, according to the affidavit. A new cottage industry? Snip...
It sounds like the neighborhood perverts out to make a few bucks on the side...
Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Muasher complained about the ongoing construction on the counter-terrorism partition fence, explaining it threatens the Hashemite Kingdom as well. Muasher stated the fence reduces the chance of the creation of a Palestinian state and as such, more PA residents will be seeking to enter Jordan. Wonder if this partial expression of cause and effect will sink in on someone residing in Ramallah? Yasser ought to remember what happened last time the Paleos messed with Jordan. Happened one September as I recall. Something about a color, too, hmmm, gray? blue? red? hmmmm ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 5:28:46 PM ||
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#1
Open expression of the palestinians as a state cancer they have to now worry about - nice to see it out in the open
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/11/2004 17:44 Comments ||
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#2
Well Marwan, then build your own fence. Good fences make good neighbors. Now only if we would build a fence for the Mexican and Quebecois borders.
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#3
I disagree with the minister. The fence makes a PA state inevitable whether they are ready to rule it or not. As for Israel, having the stench of Somalia next door might drive property values.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 20:20 Comments ||
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THE US military has begun using a sprawling air base in southern Turkey for a massive rotation of troops for Iraq, a US official said today, a sign of improved relations with the NATO ally. The permission to use Turkeyâs southern Incirlik air base strikes a sharp contrast to last year, when Turkey refused to allow US troops on its territory for the war against its southern neighbour.
It comes as Turkey is increasingly eager to win favour with the United States amid concerns over Iraqi Kurdish demands for greater autonomy in oil-rich northern Iraq. Turkey, and neighbours Syria and Iran, fear Iraqi Kurds might eventually push for independence, which they fear could bring instability to their borders. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is expected to raise Turkeyâs concerns about Iraq during talks with US President George W. Bush in Washington later this month.
The use of Incirlik comes as a relief to the US military as it deals with the largest movement of troops in decades. It is preparing to send about 130,000 US troops in Iraq home over the coming months. The troops are to be replaced by a more mobile, less heavily armed force of about 110,000. Incirlik is only an hourâs flight from Iraq and the US military has maintained a presence there since the 1950s, making it an ideal location to support the rotations. There were doubts about the future of the US presence at Incirlik after the snub by Turkeyâs parliament last year. The decision, which drove a deep wedge between Turkey and the United States, proved an obstacle for US war planners and disrupted plans for a ground invasion from the north. In a sign of Incirlikâs continued significance, the US military had recently started using the base to transport soldiers out of Iraq as part of the Iraq troop rotations, a US official said today. He said the arrangement had been worked out through negotiations between the two countries and "a large number" of troops were expected to pass through Incirlik in the coming months. Camps in Kuwait and air bases in Germany are also expected to be used in the rotation. Points in Bahrain, Qatar, and Spain could also be used.
Turkish officials could not be reached today. Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said on Friday there was "nothing new" at the base, but said Incirlik "has been used and will be used because the transportation of certain soldiers is more secure through Incirlik". Incirlik has long played a key role for the United States in the region. The US based about 50 war planes there after the 1991 Gulf War to patrol a no-fly zone over northern Iraq. It withdrew them, however, last year amid the tension between the two countries. After the war, Turkey agreed to open Incirlik and other sites to the US-led coalition for logistical support as part of efforts to improve ties with Washington. Turkey even offered to send peacekeepers to Iraq, but that offer was shelved amid strong Iraqi opposition.
The 1400 US soldiers at Incirlik - half as many as before the war - had been supporting the Iraq operation with tankers to fuel aircraft in Iraq and by delivering supplies to Iraq. The base had also occasionally sent troops to help support the Iraq mission, he added. During a visit to Ankara last month, US Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman said the US military wanted to continue using Incirlik as it realigned American troops and bases to better respond to new threats such as terrorism. That realignment is likely to close or scale down many of the permanent bases set up in Germany and other NATO nations to face the Soviet threat. US officials said it was too early to say if additional troops might be sent to Incirlik as part of the realignment.
#2
Maybe they've come to thier senses but i wonder how long before thier scitzophrenic (spelling there lol) goverment will change its mind and say out out out.
EFL from Newsday
Stung by U.S. calls for more democracy in Hong Kong, China has demanded that the American government "stop interfering" in the territoryâs internal affairs, the official news agency said Sunday. Kong Quan, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, was quoted by the Xinhua News Agency as responding to a U.S. State Department spokesmanâs comment on Hong Kongâs political development. "Hong Kong affairs (are) an internal issue of China, and the Chinese government firmly opposes any foreign government interference in the affairs of Hong Kong in any form," Xinhua said, paraphrasing Kong. Must have waited to the statement in coordination with Hugo Chavezâ similar whine.
It quoted Kong as saying that "Hong Kongâs political structure must develop in a gradual and orderly manner." to keep it from spreading.
Last week, U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher expressed the United Statesâ "strong support for democracy through electoral reform and universal suffrage in Hong Kong," saying that would stimulate the territoryâs economic development. "Our belief is in democracy," Boucher said at a briefing in Washington. "The Hong Kong people and the Hong Kong government need to start addressing this issue." He said the United States wanted to make sure that the people of Hong Kong "get their choice to design their system thatâs appropriate for them." He added: "We care a lot about the prosperity and stability of Hong Kong." Boucher and Armitage get raw treatment on Rantburg, but I beleive that they both signed off on the Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld/Cheney vision statements in the 90âs. That makes them Cabal members in my book. I wish I could join.
Pro-democracy protests, some of them quite large, have taken place in Hong Kong since July 1, when 500,000 people marched on the streets against a Beijing-backed national security bill. Activists accuse the territoryâs Beijing-appointed leader, Tung Chee-hwa, of undermining efforts at self-government. I read Bushâs message to Taiwan as wait a little while. We are working from another direction. We have seen that China will massacre citizens in places other than Hong Kong.
The refrain is a familiar one for both countries. The U.S. government has long called for more democracy in China, both on the mainland and more recently in Hong Kong. China often insists that such comments are an interference in its domestic policies. Surprising that we would continue to poke the dragon while the NK issue remains open.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 1:43:47 PM ||
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#1
Surprising that we would continue to poke the dragon while the NK issue remains open.
Not at all. Hong Kong is a huge economic center that has been going down hill since China took over. The citizens will start revolting if this trend continues.
I think what the Bush Administration is trying to do is make China choose between Hong Kong and Taiwan. In a way we're trying to blackmail China into letting Taiwan go and stop supporting NK.
Afterall, if HK were to revolt and ask for our assistance, or even NATO's assistance, China would be in trouble. Not only would we have a foothold right outside of China then, but a HUGE International airport to support our troops. That would be a huge blow to China if a war is declared. Especially since we have the superior Navy, which can guard HK from the mainland.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 16:21 Comments ||
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#2
Charles: On the money! Taiwan picks up up what HK loses, and China can't afford to crush two golden eggs
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/11/2004 16:34 Comments ||
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#3
I am hopeful for a coming shake-up, during which some countries like Tibet might sneak free in the confusion.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 20:17 Comments ||
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#4
Strange. China is upset because we TALK about affairs they consider internal. Yet they pore big bucks into our presidential elections. Some of us consider that to be interference in OUR internal affairs.
i would advice you to be very careful, if you think september the 11th was bad waite until february 2004. Being a manager at the Aljazeera new english website, I get all the info I need, thats how we know everything before all the other media companies find out. But take my advice and start relocating to a safer country because its not sadam and bin laden you should worry about.
#2
wow Al-jizz is really looking to pick a fight if thats who this nabil nutcase works for.A huge raid on the Al-jizz training camp sorry t.v station is nessicary.I wouldn't mind betting thier sheltering bin ladin in the HQ. Bastards!
#3
Anyone up for a blackbag job at Al Jizz? Maybe plant a homing device for the F117s?
I don't think these nutjobs have a clue how big this country is. Even if these guys do some kind of biological attack, the funny thing is that it will probably spread to Muslim countries via both routine air travel and Muslims fleeing the US. And medical facilities are much more primitive in Muslim countries than over here. Bottom line - if there's a bio attack, more Muslims than Americans will die, by a huge margin*. And that's without American nuclear strikes on Muslim countries.
* Think of the Iranian earthquake vs the earthquake in California.
#5
When will these asshats ever learn? YOU DON'T KICK A TIGER IN THE TEETH! That is, unless you really, really want to be a one-legged man. Of course, sometimes the tiger uses a claw on other areas, as well. That could lead to, err, a reduction to second-class Arab citizenship.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 13:52 Comments ||
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#6
good point there bet his internet adress is traceable. hope sarge calls the FBI on this maggot
#7
You guys seem to have bought hook, line and sinker that this guy actually works for al jazeera, let alone why al jazeera would know about a major planned attack...
#10
You guys seem to have bought hook, line and sinker that this guy actually works for al jazeera, let alone why al jazeera would know about a major planned attack...
I remember some journalists in NYC recounting that various Muslims had heard about the WTC bombings ahead of time. Al Jazeera does seem to know of a lot of things ahead of time - for a while, they seemed to be providing cover for Iraqi guerrillas, which is why they were expelled. Saddam had a bunch of al Jazeera people on his payroll. Also, al Jazeera tends to get these al Qaeda exclusives a lot of the time. Why?
#11
don't all bin ladin's tapes (you'd think he's have his own label by now) come through Al-Jizz,bet they know how to get hold of him,I say beat and torture the information out of them,then bomb them.
#12
Al'Jazeera "staffers" have shown up immediately after -- and sometimes before -- bombings in Iraq. One of their office managers bragged -- yes, that's the word I mean -- that terrorists used his office to plan attacks.
Zhang's precisely correct about al'Jazeera's connections and strange associations. One of their people was a go-between for Saddam and bin Laden!
That particular comment may not have come from al'Jizz, but the sentiment is solid. Personally, my surprise meter wouldn't twitch at all if that guy really was from al'Jizz.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 16:13 Comments ||
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#13
Don't take this threat too lightly. Any little piece of info could lead to the prevention of a attack.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 16:24 Comments ||
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#14
I really really dont't want to see a campaign of genocide against Arabs. However, if certain people are stupid...
"When will these asshats ever learn? YOU DON'T KICK A TIGER IN THE TEETH!"
I'm beginning to wonder if the reason they aren't learning very fast is because we didn't choose a more appropriate teaching method.
While Bush's exercise in bringing democracy, freedom and prosperity to the Islamic world has a noble purpose (i.e., give these people the tools with which to build something other than shitty, worthless hellholes to live in, then maybe they'll stop ragging on us), I have a nagging suspicion that it would have been far more effective if we had proceeded it with a demonstration of extravagent brutality: on the afternoon of September 11, 2001, pick a dozen or two military installations in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya and Saudi Arabia- installations a goodly distance from civilian population centers- and obliterate them with the largest nukes in our arsenal.
Brutal? You betcha. But it sure would have focussed their minds.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
01/11/2004 16:52 Comments ||
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#16
Frankly, I am getting a little bored of these hollow threats. I thinking this is more the rantings of an Islamofacist troll. Though, if it is legit I have message for Al-Jizz to pass on. You better get us ALL.....
Posted by: Tom ||
01/11/2004 17:01 Comments ||
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#17
Heres'a few technical things...
1) the blog site records the posting IP.
2) that IP can be traced to its provider.
3a) The owner of the IP address is known to IANA, and can be traced to a physical address.
3b) in the case of dialup or other service there is somethign called RADIUS that allows the provider to say exactly who (including service address) was connected to that IP at the time of the post.
4) If the ISP is keeping logs at its routers, it can dtects and trace anyone using their IP address space for a "relay".
In short, other than by using strong cryptographically guarded cypherpunk style remailers, where and who you are is pretty easy to obtain on the internet. Its that simple.
If you want privacy and anonymity, use strong crypto (GPG or PGP with 2048 bit RSA keys, and then IDEA 128bit), and use anon remailers, chained trhough at least 4 of them, and use variable timer delays at each remailer to try to defeat traffic analysis.
And by the way, the FBI does take threats like this seriously - contact the local field office or the field office physically located nearest your hosting provider.
I've seen trolls very surprised when an agent knocks on theri door, and they have to explain to Mom and Dad why they were making death threats online - and why they just lost all the computers in the house (including Dad's work-owned laptop) to the FBI while they are being analysed for forensic evidence.
#18
hope he's been reported,i don't feel i'm in the position to over here in England but the sarge should after all it was his site,lets hope he does eh.thanks for that info to spook very interesting stuff that if a little to techie for me :)
#20
Your boffins down in Cheltenham can probably do similar things, although they are likely loathe to talk much about it.
I liked that area - beautiful walking country down there in the spring in the Cotswalds. I remember "Panswick" (or something like that) was nice place to raise a pint or two during lunch stopovers. I think the plub was the Falcon or Eagle or something like that. Nice memories.
Nevermind why I was down that way for an extended time what seems a lifetime ago. :-)
Message to Hugo: worry now that Condi is speaking for the State Department - not a good sign.
CARACAS, Venezuela -- Following a week of tense exchanges with Washington, President Hugo Chavez on Saturday said American officials should not "stick their noses" in Venezuelaâs affairs. ... Unless it is that Carter guy. Jimmah is there for us evil despots when we need him most.
U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said Friday that Chavez should show "that he believes in democratic processes" by allowing the recall referendum on his rule to take place.
The comments followed a week of back-and-forth comments that began when U.S. officials accused Venezuela and Cuba of cooperating to undermine democratic governments in the region.
On Saturday, Chavez said the United States was wrong to comment on Venezuelaâs internal affairs.
"It is not up to them to stick their noses here in Venezuela," Chavez said. "What occurs in Venezuela only concerns Venezuelans." Translation - your heckling is disturbing my magic show.
"Venezuela is a repressed satelite of Fidel Castro free, sovereign and independent country," said Chavez, one of Latin Americaâs most outspoken critics of the Bush administrationâs foreign policy.
Caracasâ ties with Washington have been strained over Chavezâs friendly relations with Castro and his opposition to a U.S.-backed hemispheric free trade zone. (Gotta like a guy who is anti-prosperity. He wants our crippling agricultural subsidies to remain in place.) Washington was also slow to condemn a 2002 coup that briefly ousted Chavez. Iâm sure in retrospect that we wish that we had not condemned the coup at all.
Venezuelaâs National Elections Council must verify 3.4 million signatures that Chavez opponents submitted on petitions seeking the recall election.
Ezequiel Zamora, vice president of the elections council, said the vote -- if approved -- would be held before August as opposition groups have planned.
Opposition leaders argue Chavez, a former paratrooper elected in 1998 and re-elected in 2000, would be able to continue governing from behind the scenes if one of his confidants finishes his term.
A fierce critic of alleged U.S. hegemony in world affairs, Chavez praised Latin American leaders like Argentine President Nestor Kirchner, Brazilâs Luiz Ignacio Lula Da Silva and his close Cuban ally Fidel Castro for standing up to Washington. He more quietly supports other great leaders like Sadaam, Yasser, Bin Laden and Bob Mugabe.
Venezuela is a major oil supplier to the United States, but relations have been strained under Chavez. Notice that Venezuala has oil, supports the FARC and is anti-American, but hasnât appeared on the WOT radar screen. Could it be that the US is not an imperial power bent on controlling oil sources? Could we actually be fighting against radical Islamic terrorists because they killed our citizens?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 1:22:07 PM ||
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simple soultion to this, its called the thermo nuclear weapon.
#3
Hugo: "If it wasn't for that meddling Condi kid, I would have gotten away with my plans."
Scooby-doobie-doo
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 15:22 Comments ||
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OH Oh.... Jon She(E)p ... btw which country so far has used a nuclear weapon? Yankees smell oil. Wait till the oil of this planet finishes. I wonder what the yankees will search for. Yankees remember democracy in countries where there is lotsa oil. Read Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Venezuala. Isnt it time they dug Alaska?
#5
oh jesus faisal,are you really dumb enough to think we should have not nuked japan and instead sacrificed a million odd men to defeat the japanese and at the same time destroying every single japanese village town and city and every japanese person in these citys.yeah that would've been great and added a good 5 to 10 years onto the war,don't forget the japanese were also working on thier own nuclear project with the help of thier loser nazi friends.Pick up a history book if you don't believe me and try to think rationally about this.Anyway about the oil,now if we didn't BUY the OIL off your middle eastern buddies then what the fuck would they get thier money from...fruit maybe or sand?no not very profitable is it.If we didn't buy your precious oil then your favourite countries simply would not exist in this modern world,they'd be like ethiopia.you wouldn't want that would you? Interesting though how these islamic goverments use thier oil wealth,lets see,palaces more palaces medrassis (those lovely schools were they teach anti western values), and who dosn't see any of the money for the OIL we BUY off them,yep you got it its the average person who lives like a tramp.Great eh faisal,now go read that history book.
#6
drag queen Jon, every murderer has a reason for murder. Ditto for you and your babbling. You NEED oil for your survival cuz without it your war machines wont work at all.
The Brazilian government will issue an executive order strengthening a new policy of fingerprinting all U.S. visitors in response to anti-terror measures enforced by the United States, news reports said. I have one finger that I would like you to print.
The new Brazilian measures have delayed U.S. travelers in airports for up to nine hours since Jan. 1. A judge ordered them after the United States announced it would begin fingerprinting travelers arriving from other countries, including Brazil. Brazil must be a hard sell for travel agents right now. Maybe they could have waited to crack down in their off-season. Itâs for the better; Brazil, Bolivia and Venezuala are not friendly places for Americans right now.
U.S. Customs, using digital technology, on Monday began photographing and taking fingerprints of arriving foreigners. The only exceptions are visitors from 27 countries — mostly European nations — whose citizens are allowed into the United States for up to 90 days without visas. Hopefully, that will change before jihadis holding French passports blow us up. In the interim, I suggest we check all European luggage for the presence of a Speedo butt-floss style bathing suit.
Brazil denies it is retaliating for the U.S. policy, but Judge Julier da Silvaâs order to begin fingerprinting contained tough rhetoric, calling the U.S. program "absolutely brutal, threatening to human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis." An obvious graduate of a North Korean correspondence course.
Foreign Minister Celso Amorim on Saturday acknowledged that the United States is concerned about boosting security, but said it should not infringe on the rights of law-abiding travelers. "We are working for an integration of the Americas. It is natural then that there be no difficulties (for people)," Amorim said on TV Globo upon the end of a meeting with President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and cabinet colleagues in Brasilia. U.S. diplomats were not available for comment. Give them Richard Boltonâs number. Donât let them call Colin Powell as aerobic stiches might pop some of his stitches.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 12:41:08 PM ||
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ah let em finger print to their hearts content,its not as if any sane person would want to visit that squalid dump anyway, Brazils good for trees to make paper and thats about it.Also that Julier Da Silva guy must live in some sort of alternitve universe where the nazi's worst crime was finger printing,what a deluded fool he must be.
#2
LMAO... I love how the judge in brazil says our policy is "absolutely brutal, threatening to human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis." and then proceeds to implement the exact same policy towards americans in retaliation. a) he doesn't believe any of that hate filled spew he uttered or b) he thinks a little nazification of his own country is a good thing...
#4
Yeah it is... luckily I went last year because I have no intention of going back to Brazil in a long, long time. Btw, the anti-american sentiment while I was there was palpable... I got harrased on several occasions by morons bitching to me about how Bush was the anti-christ and he was out to destroy the world...
#5
Really? Did you ask them how they knew Bush was the Anti-Christ?
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 16:27 Comments ||
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#6
Nah, I pretty much either laughed at them or ignored them... both approaches just appeared to make them even angrier :) What's funny is Brazilians in the US that I've met think that Lula is a moron and the anti-americanism in Brazil is embarrasing.
#8
My girlfriend is originally from Sao Paulo and I have a lot of friends there. I know a bit about Brazil and its politics. Basically, this âdecreeâ is part of their âretaliationâ policy. Itâs traditionally been the Brazilian governmentâs guideline to âdo unto others what has been done to themâ. For example, Canada and the US require Brazilian citizens to enter with a visa, so Brazil will do the same to them; whereas, this is not the case in Europe, so Europeans can enter and exit the country with ease.
This fingerprinting thing is just an extension of their retaliation. Not that I agree with what they are doing â itâs really stupid and will be counterproductive in the short-run, so long as they keep it up â and I would prefer not go back under these new circumstances.
Sadly, however, my girlfriend (and probably future wife) had to go back for a bit because of family issues and I have to go and meet her parents. I will most likely have to undergo this finger printing procedure, which is nothing more than discrimination. I don't trust the what the Brazilian government will do with my prints.
As for the comments about anti-Americanism in Brazil, I disagree. Most, on the whole, actually admire America and Americans and many have dreams about living here and a lot would love to escape the crime that havocs many of the major cities. In many ways, Brazil is a very similar society to the US. The main problem is the corrupt âelitesâ â like this idiot judge -- who are Francophiles. So, they hate America by default and for ideological reasons. Luckily, this sentiment hasnât transferred to the main populace yet, whose main concerns are having a good time and putting food on the table. Maybe people down there do live paycheck to paycheck.
Furthermore, important figures, like Rioâs mayor and I think the minister of tourism, have filed lawsuits, claiming that policy will damage the vital tourism industry, which is just starting to recover after a long slump. It certainly wonât help, and I hear many American tour companies are thinking twice about the tours there.
Should be interesting when Lula and Bush meet over this.
#11
Faisal, from the way I read Raptor's comment, it appears that he is pointing out that he who chases away customers with cash is a poorer man. Personally, if they wanted a DNA sample from me, I'd hawk a loogie into whatever recepticle they presented. On the other hand, I doubt that I would hop a plane to be hassled for nine straight hours. New Orleans has a nice enough Mardi Gras, where I don't have to hang out in a Soviet breadline.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 21:39 Comments ||
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Azerbaijan and the United States have taken another step forward in military cooperation. On January 2, 2004, Colonel General Safar Abiyev, Defense Minister of Azerbaijan, and Reno Harnish, U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan, signed an agreement on "Cooperation for Non-proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction". Following the signing ceremony, Ambassador Harnish told journalists that under the terms of the agreement, the United States would provide Azerbaijan with $10m in military assistance.
Compared to the amounts doled out to everybody else in sight, that's chicken feed.
A comment made by General Abiyev prior to the signing of the agreement drew considerable attention from pundits. During a meeting with the U.S. Ambassador several weeks ago, Abiyev expressed the opinion that "certain forces are taking advantage of the failure to settle the Garabagh [Nagorno-Karabakh] conflict to apply pressure on Azerbaijan". Although the defense minister did not specify to which forces he was referring, he no doubt meant the United States' rivals in the region, who are trying to prevent U.S. military bases in the South Caucasus by any means possible. The Azerbaijani government has not yet expressed its standpoint regarding a U.S. military contingent within its territory. Opinions on the matter vary among the public, however. Some support this plan while others oppose it. And who is for or against the bases? Those working closely with U.S. companies, employees of NGOs receiving assistance from European and U.S. funds as well as those engaged in "importing" democracy support the presence of the United States in the region. Of course, they support U.S. military bases in Azerbaijan. However, opposing the issue are communists, those with business relationships with Russia, and those eager to restore previously close ties with Moscow. And which side is the public inclined towards?
In the late 1980s and early 1990s, 90% of the Azerbaijani public considered integration to the United States and the West a fair way to dispose of the Russian Empire and maintain sovereignty and territorial integrity. At that time, people wanted U.S. and NATO forces to be deployed in Azerbaijan. But now, the situation is a little different. Many have begun to pay attention to Russia, which holds the key to resolution of the Garabagh conflict, Azerbaijan's most outstanding problem. More significant, however, is the United States and leading European countries double-sided approach, as well as a number of international organizations' biased stance towards Azerbaijan and indirect support for invader Armenia.
Another reason is Russia's improving attitude towards Azerbaijan. Russia is making serious efforts to regain its presence and influence in this country, and is attempting to win over the Azerbaijani public and some state officials. According to pundits, if the West ignores these events and fails to make note of Azerbaijani public opinion, Russia's efforts might work. Russia has a strong lobby, diaspora and media in Azerbaijan; all powerful propaganda tools.
And what does the Azerbaijani public expect from the West? What does it want? In order to give a brief, undiplomatic answer to this question, the Azerbaijani public wants a spade to be called a spade. Namely, it expects the United States and Europe to recognize Armenia as an aggressor for occupying another country's territory. They want the international community to demand execution of the four UN Security Council resolutions adopted in 1993 for immediate liberation of the occupied lands. As to the United States' intention to deploy a military contingent in Azerbaijan, the public is unable to ignore claims by anti-American forces that 'the United States intends to strengthen its military power in the region only in favor of its national interests'. Anti-American forces claim that the troops to be stationed in Azerbaijan may be used not only against the United States' northern and southern rivals but also, if necessary, against Azerbaijan. Using Afghanistan as an example, they claim that due to a lack of military bases, the United States was unable to control situations in this country. Pundits allege that the U.S. corrected that same mistake in Georgia. Now, Azerbaijan is next. There are many who consider Azerbaijan to be at a crossroads. Those hoping to prevent Azerbaijan from integrating to the West and the world community are hoping to take advantage of it. The train is already traveling towards the West, but some forces are waiting for a chance to divert it from the track.
Azerbaijan's main adversary is Armenia, the main bone of contention being Nagorno-Karabakh. This is a blob of land that's populated by Armenians but located well inside the physical borders of Azerbaijan. When the Soviet Union was falling apart, the local Azeris made an attempt at ethnic cleansing in NG, whereupon the Armenians beat the crap out of them. The Azeris have been stewing about it ever since. It's another of those situations where both sides are in the wrong, and it's a situation it's best for the U.S. not to have an opinion.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 12:25 ||
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Basically, the Azeris want us to resolve territorial disputes in their favor. And that's not going to happen. What we can ensure, however, is that Azerbaijan stays independent of Russia and Armenia. If that's not enough for them, they're free to take up Russia's blandishments and resume their former existence as part of the Russian empire.
#2
Everybody has their Kashmir. Every dollar of aid will be spent on weapons.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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ITA, Fred. It would be interesting to have a small American contingent and base in Azer-land, just for the fun that would result when the black turbans in Tehran realized what was going on. A listening post in Baku would help us monitor events, and that common border with Iran would be ever so handy. But if the cost of a base is giving in to Azer demand on Nagorno-Karabakh then it isn't worth it.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 13:09 Comments ||
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#4
There should be a few conditions on military aid. Like keeping Mullahs in line and cracking on Saudi funded institutions.
That's deep SH... We in Florida are still trying to recover the lost Province of Mobile. :)
BTW Faisal... the Alabama is the 2nd Holiest Battleship in the Confederacy. Don't thank me I'm here to help.
With an African dance troupe recreating scenes from inside an ancient slave port, the United Nations launched a yearlong commemoration of the anti-slavery movement Saturday and noted many of the worldâs people still lack basic freedoms. The UNâs vital role - organizing the dance troupe to pantomime the brave acts of others.
Saturdayâs ceremony should spark "rededication to the ongoing struggle against all forms of racism, discrimination, xenophobia, intolerance and injustice," said Koichiro Matsuura, director general of the U.N.âs Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, or UNESCO. Hey Kiochiro, how about rededicating yourself to erradicating SLAVERY?
During 2004, the United Nations will organize exhibitions, concerts and studies meant to deepen knowledge about slavery. Maybe the Sudanese can provide a vendorâs stall with some how-to classes for those interested in the trade.
The International Year for the Commemoration of the Struggle Against Slavery and its Abolition coincides with the 200-year anniversary of Haiti, the first independent black state in the Western Hemisphere. The country was founded by slaves who rebelled against the French. Why is this celebration not being held in Haiti?
While slavery has been officially banned under international conventions for decades, its latter-day offshoots — including human trafficking, child labor, forced marriage and bonded labor — remain rife, the United Nations says. In other words, slavery was banned on paper and we declared victory. Slavery continued in practice so were renamed it so as not to spoil this hopping commemoration we have planned in Ghana.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 12:14:36 PM ||
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They're celebrating the abolition of the struggle against slavery?!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 12:46 Comments ||
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#2
Saturdayâs ceremony should spark "rededication to the ongoing struggle against all forms of racism, discrimination, xenophobia, intolerance and injustice," said Koichiro Matsuura, director general of the U.N.âs Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, or UNESCO.
'Cept the more practical and politically correct form of racism, discrimination, xenophobia, intolerance and injustice, AKA Islam.
The International Year for the Commemoration of the Struggle Against Slavery and its Abolition coincides with the 200-year anniversary of Haiti, the first independent black state in the Western Hemisphere. The country was founded by slaves who rebelled against the French.
I don;t understand this. Isn't identifying a nation a black or white itself racism, or can only the U.N. do that?
It doesn't escape my notice they failed to mention then United States eradicated slavery 140 years ago, and the former slaves here enjoy a level of affluence and influence unknown in the rest of the world, probably forever.
This is just another reason why the U.N. doesn't need the US anymore, and we don't need them either. I think Kofi and his crowd will be far more comfortable celebrating an end to xenophobia in the future Islamic shithole known as France
#3
The biggest problem with the mystical illusion known as the United Nations is the utter failure to understand that all rights are the rights of individuals, that all freedoms are based on individual rights, and that the sole legitimate function of any government is to protect individual rights from being suppressed. The United Nations, like many in the United States, is trying to morph "individual" into "group", which is not only impossible, it's stupid. Of course, the concept of individual rights and freedoms would totally destroy the foundation of most nations, and would undermine most religions, especially islam.
Universal acknowledgement of the rights and freedom of the individual would destroy the second-class citizenship of women, de-legitimize the rule of kings, potentates, and tyrants, including the tyranny imposed by religious "leaders", and put an end to many nasty habits, including the habit of slavery in any form. Unfortunately, it would also de-legitimize most of what the United Nations does, so it will never be considered.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 13:35 Comments ||
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I sure hope we don't get stuck with the tab for this B.S.
#8
The International Year for the Commemoration of the Struggle Against Slavery and its Abolition
The 22% U.S. share of the U.N. (not counting our military contributions in both blood and material)would be easier to take if we would see a U.N. sponsorship of "The International Year for the Condemnation of the Cult of Islam."
A suicide bomber was killed Sunday when his device prematurely exploded near a settlement in the northern West Bank while another Palestinian was shot dead by Israeli troops in the area. Witnesses said that body parts of the bomber could be seen scattered near the site of the explosion close to the settlement of Karnei Shomron, east of the town of Qalqilya.
Body parts=Cause -> Wall=Effect...
"One Palestinian exploded himself between the village (of Jinsafut) and the settlement," a Palestinian security source said. An Israeli military source said: "It appears a suicide bomber prematurely detonated himself", adding that there were no Israeli casualties.
"Yeah, well maybe there ain't no casualties, but somebody's gotta clean up that mess!"
Meanwhile a Palestinian teenager was shot dead by Israeli soldiers near the troubled northern West Bank town of Nablus. Fuad Jarwuan, 18, was fatally injured when Israeli soldiers aboard two jeeps opened fire to disperse a group of stone-throwing Palestinians in the village of Zeita, south of Nablus. An Israeli military source said that the shooting had taken place after troops came under attack. "During a routine patrol the force came under attack by a violent crowd who threw stones and large rocks," the source said. "IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) troops identified an armed Palestinian who had lit a Molotov cocktail. A hit was identified."
Molotov cocktail=Cause -> Shot in the head=Effect...
Nine Palestinians have been killed in the Nablus area since December 26, when Israeli troops began an operation to round up wanted militants.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 12:10 ||
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Seems as though it would be even more discouraging to the "armed Palestinian" if they had shot the lighted Molotov cocktail while he was holding it -- effect would have been the same.
Fred, what the hell kind of Perl module are you using?
It just doesn't get any better than this. A suicide bomber commits suicide and not one hair on a victim's head mussed. Several pounds of explosives expended. Truly a memorable event.
#4
brilliant isn't it,i'm still grinning from ear to ear about this one.Shame it dosn't happen more often.Best story of the day this one.Rantburg Rules.
Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmad Quraya, with his back to a wall Israel has built that cuts through the West Bank, has said peace will never dawn in the Middle East unless the barrier is removed.
Funny. The Israelis say peace will never dawn unless the terrorism stops. Guess Rosy-fingered Dawn can continue snoozing...
Israel says the barrier, a mix of fences and concrete walls that encroaches on West Bank land by differing amounts along its entire 150 km, is built for security reasons. Palestinians call it an attempt to annex or fragment occupied land. Quraya visited one section that encircles the Palestinian town of Qalqilya to dramatise their case against it. "From the edge of this racist separation wall, I appeal to the United States, to President George Bush, Europe and the United Nations to (understand) that this leaves no chance for the establishment of a Palestinian state," he said in the shadow of the 10-metre-high barrier. "I am not saying this emotionally. I am trying to attract attention to what they (Israel) are trying to do through this wall. They are drawing a picture of an imposed solution on the ground." The barrier's serpentine course has separated Palestinian farmers from their fields and crippled trade between villages and market towns like Qalqilya, where 40,000 people are ringed by concrete except for one gap with an Israeli army checkpoint. Israel is threatening a unilateral separation along the line of the wall to replace a tattered US-backed peace plan. The Palestinians fear this will dash their dream of a viable state of their own.
The tattered US-backed peace plan — aka roadkill — called for the Paleos to bring the gunnies under control. That didn't happen. It called for Paleostinian elections. That didn't happen. It called for all sorts of things, none of which happened. The tattered US-backed peace plan, aka roadkill, was a product of the Quartett, which consisted of the US, the EU, the UN and Russia, an effort to work out something that would do mostly right by all parties and result in a Paleostinian state. Hamas used it for toilet paper.
"Any talk of a state (for us) is a waste of time now because this wall... is meant to transform the West Bank into cantons and 'bantustans' in which there will be no form of (genuine) Palestinian rule or any chance for a Palestinian state," Quraya said. "But our people will not give in. They have several options and they will carry out such options."
Most of them, of course, involve explosions...
He did not elaborate, but last week he said Palestinians might demand a "bi-national" state encompassing both Israel and occupied territory, where Arabs could be in the majority. Another option, according to the Palestine Liberation Organisation's executive committee led by President Yasser Arafat, might be to proclaim a state unilaterally in the West Bank and Gaza, to counter Israel's threat to go it alone.
But none of those options include bringing the snuffies to heel or holding elections.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 11:16 ||
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I still think the wall needs a moat and crocadiles to keep the baby shredders out.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 11:20 Comments ||
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Landmines as well. If they won't follow Geneva, than neither should Isreal.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 11:42 Comments ||
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I guess the word peace in the Arab dictionary is defined, among other things, by the phrase mass murders of unarmed civilians
The Palestinians fear this will dash their dream of a viable state of their own.
Not this will fulfill their dreams (which happens to be a nightmare for Arafat and Hamas - less money coming in (arafat) and no-one to murder (hamas)). They will have a de-facto state -- the state might not be 'viable' at first. I expect a civil war. Its that damn cause and effect at work again.....
#6
I guess the Palestians just telegraphed a resumption of hostilities. Either way, the wall stays.
Remember this, Pali's, when the IDF comes road marching into one of your 'refugee' camps to clean out the firearms and explosives, that a barrier to make it harder for you to murder civilians was the only impediment to peace..
Hundreds of reformist candidates in Iran have been barred from standing in parliamentary elections next month.
God spoke to the theocrats and told them to take those guys off the list...
The BBC reports that many reform MPs have walked out of parliament in protest at the ruling by the conservative body which decides who is allowed to contest the seats. No official announcement has been made about the exact number of disqualifications, as would be candidates are being informed individually. But local press reports said that just over half of the 1,700 people who presented themselves in the Teheran constituency have been turned down by supervisory committees of the council of guardians, the highly conservative watchdog body which has the right to vet candidates. According to reformist members of the outgoing parliament, those disqualified include 80 existing reformist deputies. Among them are some of the best known figures in the reform movement. They include President Khatamiâs brother, Mohammed Reza Khatami, who heads the biggest reform party and is also deputy speaker of parliament.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 9:41:25 AM ||
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#1
If the people in Iran had there waty the Mullahs would be voted out ASAP. The Mullahs know it too.
#4
Cheddarhead, they call it an Islamic republic. That modifier makes all the difference.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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Waiting for the International outcry....
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 11:35 Comments ||
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you'll be waiting a long long time.probably only a few morally sound countries (the Allies as i call them USA, UK and Australia) will speak up about this one.
#8
Yes Robert, they do call it an Islamic Republic. However that is no reason we have to call it one. Any more than North Korea is a "peoples republic". if I call a pile of shit gold it is still a pile of shit
Police arrested the editor of Zimbabweâs leading independent weekly and two of his reporters Saturday after the paper allegedly insulted President Robert Mugabe in a story about his vacation, the editorâs lawyer said. Jailed for telling the truth, were they? Iden Wetherell of the Zimbabwe Independent, a respected business and political weekly, was expected to be charged with criminal defamation of Mugabe, said lawyer Linda Cook. Guess Iâd better not set foot in Bob-land then.
The paper reported in Fridayâs edition that Mugabe commandeered one of the heavily indebted national airlineâs jets for an Asian vacation with his family and a small party of aides. The report, "Mugabe grabs plane for Far East holiday," said many passengers booked on the Boeing 767âs flights to London were stranded in Harare while alternative arrangements were made. Thatâs our Bob!
Cook said Wetherell, 55, was arrested at his Harare home and taken to the cityâs main police station. Reporters Dumisani Muleya and Vincent Kahiya were arrested later and police were looking for a third Independent reporter, Itai Dzamera, she said. Zimbabwe Information Minister Jonathan Moyo, who also is acting transport minister, said Wetherell and the two reporters faced up to two yearsâ imprisonment for defaming Mugabe, the state Herald reported Saturday. "This was not the first time the paper has written lies that are blasphemous and disrespectful of the president," Moyo said.
The term "blasphemous" is usually used only when referring to dieties...
Moyo denied Mugabe personally phoned Air Zimbabwe, as implied in the report, but Moyo did not deny the airplane was diverted from its regular schedules for more than five days. With all the shoddy maintenance found in African airlines, why couldnât Bob have picked the right plane?
Mugabe does not have his own presidential jet and has often thrown the national carrierâs schedules into disarray by commandeering its planes. Last month, the paper reported Mugabe took an airliner for nine days for a trip to a United Nations meeting in Geneva and a visit to Egypt, forcing the national airline to charter another jet for more than $1 million. Why should Bob have his own jet? He can just take one when he wants it.
Meanwhile, police Saturday blocked entry to the offices and printing plant of the countryâs only independent daily newspaper for a second day, defying a High Court order issued Friday to allow The Daily News to resume publication. The government has ignored three similar orders since police shut down the paper Sept. 12. Iâm sure the worldâs leading newspapers will be all over this in support of the brave people in Bob-land.
Since its launch in 1999, The Daily News has been a platform for government criticism. The state controls the countryâs two other dailies, and the only television and radio stations.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/11/2004 12:53:31 AM ||
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"This was not the first time the paper has written lies that are blasphemous and disrespectful of the president,"
That word is a particularly bad sign.
What a pity the civilized world hasn't the balls to simply kill Mugabe and save Zimbabwe a lot of pain.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:17 Comments ||
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RC, before we pitch Bob the high hard one, it would be nice to know who is standing in the on-deck circle. I know that his VP just died and the MDU doesn't appear to have a lot of guns, which are usually a prerequisite for regime change.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 11:34 Comments ||
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Good Heavens SH are you suggesting we Bean Bob?
Itâs Kavkaz, but I imagine that theyâll be pretty up-front about conveying his views.
Statement of Commander of âRiyadus Salihiinâ [Shamil Basayev] concerning the activities of CRI Foreign Ministry
Praise Allah, the Lord of the worlds, Who created us Muslims and who blessed us with Jihad on His Straight Way. Peace and blessing of the Almighty Allah be on Prophet Muhammad, his family, his disciples and all of those who follow the Straight Way until the Day of Judgment. And then:
The past year was marked by the âactiveâ job of CRI [Chechen Republic of Ichkeria] Foreign Ministry in two trends:
By advertising the good-for-nothing notorious âAkhmadov Planâ, which casts doubt on the very fact of independence of CRI, endorsed by the Constitution and beyond any discussions. But we are not calling it treason, we are calling it ignorance.
The second trend in CRI Foreign Ministryâs activities was coming to condemning «terrorist acts in all its forms» after each successful operation conducted by Brigade of Shaheeds âRiyadus Salihiinâ, which has been trying to have the genocide of the Chechen people stopped at any cost available and repulse Russiaâs aggression against CRI.
CRI Foreign Ministry is merely calling all these acts âterrorist actsâ without even bothering to give a legal evaluation in according to the same so-called âinternational lawâ, let alone the Shariah law. At the same time CRI Foreign Ministry has been proclaiming its ardent «adherence to the international law and strict compliance therewith». By its ignorance CRI Foreign Ministry has virtually been contributing to the fact that the war is getting protracted and becoming fiercer, as well as to the forming of the image of a âChechen terroristâ who fights for the sake of the war itself and blows up each and every thing for money or for the fun of it.
Hmmmm... Yeah. That sounds about right...
And now concerning the so-called âinternational law and terrorismâ. Each law, including the international law, is a code of rules of behavior and activities of the negotiating sides, which are making a commitment to adhere to it. Needless to say, the law is supposed to be equally mandatory for all and equal measures of compulsion and punishment for the violators must be applied. And if the law is mandatory for one side and not mandatory for the other, it is called âdictatesâ, and not a âlawâ.
Proceeding from the fact that the leaders of virtually all sides, the UN, the European Union, CRI Foreign Ministry and especially Russian president Putin are claiming they are for peace and international law, the Brigade of Shaheeds âRiyadus Salihiinâ is hereby officially declaring:
If president of Russia Putin makes an official statement that he pledges to strictly comply with the international law in the solution of the Russian-Chechen armed conflict, we will stop all subversive activities and acts of sabotage against unarmed civilians on the territory of Russia (there are no peaceful civilians in Russia), except for special military operations against the military and secret services in the places where they are deployed. We can even give that up as well.
If president of Russia Putin will start to strictly comply with the international law, it would no longer make sense to be waging the war. It will be peace in CRI and in Russia, and mediators are not even needed to solve all problems.
If Bush, Schroeder, Blair, Chirac, Kofi Annan and other âsupporters of international lawâ will demand that Putin starts strictly complying with this international law on the issue of solving the Russian-Chechen armed conflict, and if they themselves will comply with it, and if they introduce sanctions against Russia if Putin refuses, then the war in the Caucasus and all problems of terrorism will vanish immediately, because the Chechen side is never against peaceful solution of the conflict.
As we all know, President of CRI Aslan Maskhadov has always been stressing not on the adherence, but on strict compliance with the international law. And our acts are only retaliatory actions in response to terrorism of the Russian state and an attempt to stop the genocide of the Chechen people.
And if our proposal remains unanswered, it will mean that there is no international law whatsoever, and that there are no common rules of warfare. Everything is hypocrisy. There is only one international law â the Law of Force, there is the right of the stronger ones to have everything and there is the lack of rights of the weaker ones. And we are not from the weak ones, by the Mercy of Allah!
Thus the international community and CRI Foreign Ministry, which is especially important for us, have the opportunity to make their own contribution to the restoration of peace and justice on the Chechen land, and the entire world has the chance to find out who is really complying with the international law, and who is sticking to international terrorism.
And may Allah help us on His Straight Way!
Allah Akbar! (God is Great!)
Abdallah Shamil Abu-Idris,
Commander (Amir) of Brigade of Shaheeds âRiyadus Salihiinâ
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:25:06 AM ||
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A west Sudanese rebel group said on Saturday it was ready to resume peace talks with the Khartoum government if it met conditions including allowing international observers to attend any negotiations. "We will continue fighting but we are prepared to negotiate," said Hassan Ibrahim, spokesman for the rebel Sudan Liberation Army/Movement (SLM/A), which has been fighting government forces in the western Darfur region of Sudan. The SLM/A also wanted Khartoum to allow humanitarian access to rebel-held areas, investigations into what Ibrahim called human rights abuses and an agreement with Khartoum for the establishment of a team to investigate charges civilians have been targeted in the conflict, he said.
The SLM/A, which accuses Khartoum of marginalising Darfur, signed a ceasefire with the government in September but peace talks broke down in December. It has been fighting government forces in the arid and poor western region of Darfur for almost a year. The Justice and Equality Movement (JEM), another group of western rebels which was not a party to the ceasefire between the SLM/A and the government, is also ready to negotiate with Khartoum under certain terms, a spokesman for the group said. But Abu Bakr Hamid al-Nur declined to say what the terms were. The groupâs leader would outline them later, he said. Khartoum this week signed a wealth-sharing deal with rebels from the oil-rich south of the country who have been fighting the government for two decades. Sudanâs foreign minister said on Saturday the type of deal under negotiation with the southern rebels could not be repeated in the west because it contained the right to self determination, which he said could not be negotiated with the western rebels.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
01/11/2004 12:18:05 AM ||
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Looks like the western "rebels" are lost. To bad as I bet they are good folk. If only Rantburg could push the buttons. Yea, to bad.
#3
I consider the government of Sudan second only to Iran in it's idiotic adherence to militant islam and its inability to allow anyone any freedom of expression not totally acceptable to the ruling class of turbantops. The whole country needs a deep flush, followed by a strong antiseptic cleanser.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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Raptor, I've found Lucky writes most of his comments with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Irony as a weapon ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/11/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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Syria has urged the United States to wield its influence and help revive peace negotiations with Israel. "Syria wants the United States to work seriously for a resumption of the peace process with Israel at the point where it broke down," the official al-Thawra newspaper said on Saturday.
Israel says they'll talk, but the talks will start from scratch...
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, whose regime faces the threat of US sanctions, said last month he wanted to restart negotiations with Israel that collapsed four years ago. But despite some support within his own government, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon rebuffed the overture. Sharon instead announced plans to increase by half the Jewish population of the Golan Heights, which was seized from Syria in the 1967 Middle East war and unilaterally annexed in 1981. "Syria wants the United States to play an honest, neutral, objective and credible role... and not allow Israel to miss this opportunity, as Sharon tried to do by saying the negotiations must start from scratch," the newspaper said.
They're hoping they can get a better deal from us.
Under ex-PM Barak, Israel agreed to withdraw from most of the Golan Heights except for a narrow strip of land, an option Syria rejected. Syria's appeal was made even though Washington has threatened Damascus with diplomatic and economic sanctions, accusing it of "sponsoring terrorism" and developing weapons of mass destruction.
Or because of it...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:11 ||
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*sniff* *sniff*
What's that stinky smell coming from baby assad's pants?
#3
I think we need to annihilate the zion. Uncle Sam can provide the logistics for all the people living in zion right now. They can be re-habilitated there in the US. See, it's just a matter of a little inconvenience but that's all.
#6
Faisal, I'm sure you're nothing but a troll -- probably some pasty college kid posting from central Wisconsin -- so please, don't ever post here again.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/11/2004 9:09 Comments ||
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Why would Assad appeal to the US? We are just a puppet of Sharon afterall. I keep hoping that my puppetmaster will make me jump up on my coffee table and do that cool Russia dance thing where you kickout your legs alternately in rabid sucession. He just seems to like for me to get a bowl of ceral and watch the NFL playoffs. Must be an art piece that I don't understand.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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yeah seems to me ass-ad is shitting it and his silly little nation is on the quick road to doom,lets hope so anyway.Hope he's got his spider hole ready - he's gonna need it.the way the arab nations are pickin fights with us its all gonna end in tears for them - hopefully you to have dug your spider hole Faisal you fool.
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 11:19 Comments ||
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Faisal, the only ones that are going to be annihilated is Assad and the Mullahs.
Posted by: Charles ||
01/11/2004 11:47 Comments ||
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jump up on my coffee table and do that cool Russia dance thing where you kickout your legs alternately
I've been that drunk with Russians twice... two knee operations and one ex-aquarium.
Lebanon has refuted statements attributed to the US secretary of state, Donald Rumsfeld, on the existence of what he called terrorists in the Bekaa area, considering such statements as mere illusions.
"Nope. Nope. Never happened..."
The Lebanese foreign minister Jean Obeid told journalists "I believe that the matter will be refuted by facts on the ground, the same as happened to Mr. Rumsfeld's allegations about mass destruction weapons." News reports quoted on Thursday "American sources" saying that Rumsfeld is studying the possibility of sending special forces to Somalia, and the Lebanese Bekaa plain which is controlled by Syria to "detain terrorists."
Whether he intends to or not, it certainly got their attention, which I suspect is what he intended to do. He and Powell are probably laughing their buttocks off at this...
On whether Rumsfeld's statement is an introduction to launch an American aggression against Lebanon and Syria, Obeid said "we do not know what is going in the head of Rumsfeld, but we think that Lebanon in this matter is free of all accusations." The minister stressed that "the State of Lebanon at all its levels will have the appropriate and convincing reply." For his part, the Lebanese minister of information Michael Samaha described the hypothesis of the existence of terrorists in the Bekaa plain as just "illusions," and considered that the objective is to damage any positive and serious dialogue with the USA. In press statements, the Lebanese minister asked Rumsfeld to talks with his country s embassy in Lebanon, especially as its team makes repeated visited to the Bekaa and other Lebanese areas.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:11 ||
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"the US secretary of state, Donald Rumsfeld,"
Pal, I'm surprised you didn't notice THIS egregious error ...
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
01/11/2004 1:12 Comments ||
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Hell, Fred must be having us on with this one - the whole article is in the "I can shout, don't hear you!" vein of mangled Engrish. Pretty funny shit, actually. Can you see the puppet's strings quivering? I think someone's more than a little nervous!
Posted by: Jon Shep ||
01/11/2004 4:35 Comments ||
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...described the hypothesis of the existence of terrorists in the Bekaa plain as just "illusions," and considered that the objective is to damage any positive and serious dialogue with the USA. I'm sure that there is an engagement/appeasement US Congressperson on a plane right now that will soon swear that Beka is clear of all terrorists.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 11:06 Comments ||
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"the US secretary of state, Donald Rumsfeld,"
Pal, I'm surprised you didn't notice THIS egregious error ...
Can you imagine Rumsfeld as the Secretary of State? The first thing he would do is purge (i.e. retire) the entire upper echelon of the State Department, starting with Richard Boucher. With Rumsfeld at State and Wolfowitz (or Bolton or Feith) at Defense, instead of a good cop-bad cop approach, we'd have a bad cop-worse cop approach.
#6
Expanding on the previous statement, Rumsfeld would show up with a set of brass knuckles, whereas Wolfowitz (or Bolton or Feith) would show up with a box of fresh proctologist gloves.
#8
The first thing he would do is purge (i.e.liquidate) the entire upper echelon of the State Department, starting with Richard Boucher
The truth is State retirees are self-refuting. All they have to do is publish their (inevitable) America-hating tracts, and readers will start wondering whether the State Department really works for benefit of the American people, or for the foreign lobbyist jobs they generally take up after retiring.
#9
Heh heh. "The Bekaa who?! Oh, no no no no no, that's not in LEBANON! No, that's part of ... SYRIA! Yeah, that's the ticket. We can't be responsible for the place. It's been taken over by carnies."
Heh. Think they were a little flustered by "Secretary of State RUMSFELD'S" (we should be so lucky) words about the place?
#10
Unfortunately, the State Dept guys who are the most difficult are Civil Service and can't be purged. However, nothing says we can't transfer them to our brand-new very, very large embassy on Diego Garcia...
Palestinian leaders yesterday reasserted the right to unilaterally declare an independent state in the absence of a peace deal with Israel, responding to Israelâs own threats of one-sided action. The PLO Executive Committee, one of the Palestiniansâ key leadership bodies, met Friday night to discuss the ongoing conflict with Israel and reiterated the right to declare a state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Arab parts of Jerusalem â lands that Israel took control of in the 1967 Mideast war.
Once the wall's built, go ahead and do it.
But the Palestiniansâ path to statehood has come under question amid warnings by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that he could give up on peace talks and draw a boundary that would leave the Palestinians with much less land than they seek.
Maybe the Paleostinians should consider giving up some land for peace.
The back-and-forth talk of unilateral action reflects frustration on both sides with more than three years of fighting and stalled peace talks. Yesterday, Saleh Rafat, a member of the PLO committee, said Israelâs actions will not prevent the Palestinians from declaring âan independent Palestinian state within the 1967 border.â But there are no immediate plans to declare a state, Rafat said. Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat also emphasized that a âtwo-state solution is the option of the Palestinian leadership.â From exile in Tunis, the Palestinian National Council declared an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza in 1988 â a move that was never recognized internationally. In 1999, Yasser Arafat threatened to declare a state again, but backed down after then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would annex parts of the West Bank in response. Now the Palestinians face threats from Israel that they could be left with far less territory than theyâve sought for a future state.
They brought that on themselves, not that they recognize the connection between their own acts and the consequences...
Sharon recently outlined a plan under which he would withdraw forces from parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, dismantle some Jewish settlements along the way and draw his own boundary between Israel and the Palestinians if peace talks remain stopped. Some Israeli officials believe the Palestinians, possibly even Arafat, are seeking a new strategy: Waiting for demographics to resolve the conflict. Experts have predicted the Palestinians will outnumber Jews in the coming decades. About 3.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza, in addition to 1.2 million Arab citizens of Israel. About 5.5 million Jews live in Israel.
They can breed as much as they want within their walls...
In an interview on Thursday, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei said if peace talks fail and Sharon follows through with his âdisengagementâ plan the Palestinians would push for a binational state of Arabs and Jews. Such a scenario would spell disaster for Israelâs Jewish character, because the Palestiniansâ higher birthrate would soon put Arabs in the majority. Israel would then face a choice between giving Palestinians the right to vote or becoming a minority-ruled country like apartheid South Africa.
Which is why they won't accept it.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:11 ||
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We need to get to work on inflatable refugee camps, I think there's going to be a demand for them. On second thought... maybe inflatable is not the way to go... perhaps dried refugee camps would be easier since Acme already has tons of knowledge on this subject.
#2
As I wrote before, the zion must end. It must be annihilated completely and it's inhabitants can be settled in the us. Shipman, what u gotta say about this nice plan of mine :-)
#3
Lets see,10 or 12 MOABs for the Gaza Strip.8 or 9 for the West Bank.Hmmm,settle the survivers in the Sahar.That should go a long way toward fixing the problem,Fasil.
#4
Dar al Islam must end. It must be annihilated completely. Mecca must be returned to its original Jewish inhabitants before Mohammed murdered them. If we are going to roll back the clock, doesn't 600 sound MUCH better than 1948? Faisal, what u gotta say about this nice plan of mine :-)
Posted by: ed ||
01/11/2004 11:39 Comments ||
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#6
The idiotarians running the "Palestine Liberation Organization" don't seem to be able to understand they can't manipluate time quite as easily as they manipulate the NGOs and the other idiotarians in the world. Listen, mental midgets, you do not have the power, the wealth, or the intelligence to call the shots. Israel does. Case closed. Nothing you do will affect the final outcome more than killing a bunch of innocent people. You have finally screwed the pooch, and it just turned into a 700-pound rabid Rotweiler.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/11/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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#7
it just turned into a 700-pound rabid Rotweiler with nuclear weapons and a green light from the real G*d.
Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmad Yassin said in remarks published Friday that his movement would not agree to a new truce that is not be respected by Israel and that it would not cease attacks on Israeli civilians as long as the Jewish state targets Palestinian civilians. "Hamas will not commit the same mistake in agreeing on a new truce with Israel which will not be respected by the latter," Yassin told Saudi magazine Al-Majallah, published in London. Yassin said, however, that his group was prepared for a new truce "on the condition that the countries that want this truce give guarantees" to Hamas.
Perhaps we should send hostages?
These guarantees include "respect for the truce by Israel, and an end to the occupation and aggression against the Palestinian people."
Sure. Hokay.
"Hamas will not halt attacks on Israeli civilians as long as Israeli forces do not cease attacks on Palestinian civilians," said Yassin, who did not rule out the possibility that "the armed branch of Hamas could target Israeli officials including (Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon, in retaliation for the assassination of top Hamas officials by Israeli forces."
That's to be expected. That's why the Israelis held off hitting at the political leadership for so long. Did them a lot of good, didn't it? (Pay me now, or pay me later...)
Commenting on the December 13 arrest of Saddam Hussein by US-led forces in Iraq, Yassin described the former president's capture as "a loss" for the Palestinian cause. "We have lost an Arab leader who rejected the Zionist plan on the land of Palestine ... who refused to recognise Israel. If he had remained (in power), he would have represented a threat to Israel, in the future ... apart from the financial aid he gave fighters, in particular the martyrs (suicide bombers)."
"He was a kindred soul. He is sorely missed..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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#1
Sheikh Ahmad Yassin
Perhaps the world's most notable atmosphere abuser.
#2
Shipman, I like it. Maybe the tree-huggers will take the unilateral hint and curb CO2 emmisions through mass suicide.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
01/11/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#3
We have lost an Arab leader who rejected the Zionist plan on the land of Palestine ... who refused to recognise Israel. If he had remained (in power), he would have represented a threat to Israel, in the future ... apart from the financial aid he gave fighters, in particular the martyrs (suicide bombers).
Yet, the Democrats & major news organizations tell us that Saddam didn't have any links to global terrorism...
Russia will consider speeding up removing its two remaining army bases in Georgia if Tbilisi finds funds to finance the process, Moscow military officials told Georgiaâs foreign minister Thursday. A deputy head of Russiaâs Joint Chiefs of Staff told this to Georgiaâs Foreign Minister Tedo Japaridze during a meeting on Thursday in Moscow, the news agency quoted an unnamed official at the defence ministry as saying. Russia has two army bases remaining in the former Soviet republic in the Caucasus that it has agreed under an international agreement to withdraw. Georgia wants the bases withdrawn within three years; the Russians say the withdrawal will take up to 10 years. âThe Russian side once again firmly said that Georgiaâs suggestion of three years (for withdrawal) is unrealistic,â the official told ITAR-TASS.
It's only been a dozen years now, hasn't it?
But Moscow will consider speeding up the process if Georgia finds a foreign sponsor to fund the withdrawal itself and the resettling of the removed soldiers and equipment in Russia proper, the official said.
I just felt a twinge in my wallet. I'm not sure why...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/11/2004 00:10 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
