#2
No BS here. Compare the US 'success' in Afghanistan with the period shortly after VE day in Germany. A US soldier is assassinated. 50,000 US troops, more or less, are mobilized & go door to door to confiscate arms. Pretty soon, no more assassinations of the eeevil US occupiers. Never will happen in the 'Stan due to current circumstances.
#3
So you missed 9/11 too. That's why we're there. By the way, the Germans were pounded, cities leveled into rubble, reduced to subsistence and their men disarmed. So where's your analogy. Somehow the Army was able to muddle through the closing of the 19th Century West while dealing with tribes, corrupt politicians, and the lack of an overall strategy on how to proceed.
One lesson unlearned in the whole process is like Germany and Japan, the State Department should work for DoD till the ground is declared cleared and secured and not a moment sooner.
#4
Before you start nation building you must judge the people of the nation you want to build. You must also estimate the cost and whether or not you can afford it. Germany, Japan and South Korea worked. The jury is still out on Iraq. Afghanistan looks like Vietnam, IMHO, from where I sit which is admittedly not there. They don't understand democracy. They have no point of reference for understanding our concept of freedom or a modern, democratic nation. They were a rural, mostly uneducated, feudal society when we got there and they will be the same when we leave.
Remember our initial justification for invading Afghanistan? It was to bring Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri to justice. George Bush said that if any nation was harboring terrorists they were against us. "You're either with us or against us," he said. Does it really take a genius to understand that Pakistan is against us? Is there any doubt that they are harboring Zawahiri the same way they harbored bin Laden? So maybe, just maybe, Afghanistan still has value as a launching pad for attacks against Pakistan and Iran. But we need to forget about building a nation there.
Posted by: Abu Uluque ||
11/11/2011 14:33 Comments ||
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#5
Go back and read my posts. I didn't say anything about nation building. We're there and elsewhere if necessary to make sure those that instigated 9/11 and gave them aid and comfort never feel a day of peace for the rest of their existence on the planet. How much you have to cosy up with one group of natives while you're hammering another is an art that is lost on the State Dept types and wannabees. You don't have to necessarily 'win' by rebuilding in your own image. You can 'win' by altering the political/power landscape enough to cause the miscreants who caused you problems to be taken down enough so that the rest of the groups in the region keep them more than busy just to stay alive. Just remember that for all the trouble that the Paks have been giving us in this process, they're up to their proverbial butts in their own problems and destabilization while their neighbor India is striding far ahead in their development.
I come from a period back in the 60s when the old grumblers were whining about how we 'lost' in Korea. Anyone today that looks at the nighttime images over the Peninsula can see who really won and who really lost. Sometimes you need the perspective of time to see what's really going on.
#6
No Islam in Korea. Direct logistic routes in and out of S. Korea. Apples and organges. Afghanistan is a hell hole and we supply through enemy territory on a supply line that is tortuous at best. In these respects it is far, far worse than Vietnam. We ain't gonna change it a hair's breadth. Time to leave and bomb when needed.
#7
So you missed 9/11 too... So where's your analogy.
You DEFINITELY missed 12/7/1941 and the German declaration of war on the USA. Those were the reasons there was such a vast number of GIs in Germany that any 'militancy' was crushed before it could even get started. You can 'win' by altering the political/power landscape enough to cause the miscreants who caused you problems to be taken down enough so that the rest of the groups in the region keep them more than busy just to stay alive. That's easy to set down from a keyboard, not so easy to do in reality. The US never put near enough resources in the 'Stan to do anything like you just mentioned. The US never even bothered to train a decent number of its own translators of Dari and Pashto.
#8
tribalism is the lowest level of sovereignty. To try and make tribals understate allegiance to a nation-state is a a long hard slog, and IMHO not our business. Better to try and get Detroit to understand capitalism...it's only slightly less hard and a bit less shooting
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/11/2011 22:35 Comments ||
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#9
*understand*....dammit
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/11/2011 22:37 Comments ||
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#10
Nice RANT you guys!
You can teach dogs the value of a biscuit.
You CAN'T teach dogs to trim their toenails, or other hygenic practices.
Dennis Ross is a veteran of thousands of mideast conferences, meetings, strategic plans, etc. He commands enormous respect for his insider knowledge and candor and integrity.
Up until this week, leftist Jews could cite his presence in the Obama admin as a sign that any apparent anti Israel rhetoric or threat was just 'performance art' and that the admin was really on Israel's side.
The fact that Ross is resigning from the admin means that this 'don't worry about it, Ross is taking care of things argument has reached its 'sell by' date.
Posted by: Lord Garth ||
11/11/2011 08:23 ||
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#1
Was he 'fed up'.
Did they pitch him a lie he couldn't stomach.
Did he get a better offer?
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