Article

2012-01-21 International-UN-NGOs

Why does American foreign policy upset Russia more than China?

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by ryuge 2012-01-21 05:47|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 1. Russians collectively and individually have a much greater insecurity problem than the Chinese and not without reason. They are in secular decline. Their friends in the west are also in decline and EUrope could descend into chaos without too much pushing. And the Germans, not yet BFF, seem to be the only ones with their act together. China is on the rise and faces no neighbors who physically threaten it.

2. China is too busy counting its dollars to get overly nasty.

3. China knows Obama is a wimp and there is no upside to excessive bellicosity.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2012-01-21 06:49|| 2012-01-21 06:49|| Front Page Top

#2 "Russia remains Russia." - German saying

Even in Czarist times, Russia had similar problems to what it has today. Their personality is half European and half Asian, and they are unhappy in either world.

Putin wants to restore Russia as his sole real prerogative, but the nation is in a nightmare situation, and he can only do what the Russians as a whole want to do, and how they want to do it.

They have a strong streak of xenophobia, so he is trying to play that for all it is worth, short of any real confrontation. Russia still has its seat on the UNSC, but that is only good for saying "Nyet" to anything anyone else wants to do.

Posted by Anonymoose 2012-01-21 08:43|| 2012-01-21 08:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Very interesting post. The Russians are a complex diverse people. The old world lives with the new.
This is election time for them, March as I recall. Putin himself has caused allot of these problems within his own country. The Russian people want a modern country but wish to perserve its rich culture. They have all the social problems we have. They have a strong economy. In the longrun I see them much stronger than the Chinese. China is too much like Japan, resource poor. Russia has vast resources. Tremendous potential for future growth. Russia and China have a long history and long memories. They merely tolerate each other. So its the election that provokes much of this foreign policy upset in my opinion.

Posted by Dale 2012-01-21 08:44|| 2012-01-21 08:44|| Front Page Top

#4 Yes, Anonymoose. "Even in Czarist times, Russia had similar problems to what it has today. Their personality is half European and half Asian, and they are unhappy in either world". They want peace. They want what all people want. They don't want war. Some in power want the old days. They sit with dreamy eyes of what it was and could be again. The people want no part of that. Better to build a country than divide it. The protest movement and underground are very much alive and well there. They live in fear of winters return.
However their bones will always be Russian.

Posted by Dale 2012-01-21 09:04|| 2012-01-21 09:04|| Front Page Top

#5 Dale - long money is on Siberia and it's resources under demographic dominance of China. Many areas are already %50 ethnic Chinese.

Its not a huge jump from ethnic to political to actual dominance.

Posted by Water Modem 2012-01-21 09:50|| 2012-01-21 09:50|| Front Page Top

#6 That... AND... they have a historical claim to Siberia.

(Not to mention their historical claim to Russia).

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-01-21 10:11|| 2012-01-21 10:11|| Front Page Top

#7 ..well technically the Mongols do. The Chinese are circumspect about calling their Mongol period of occupation the Yuan period to maintain a degree of lineage.

Posted by Procopius2k 2012-01-21 10:33|| 2012-01-21 10:33|| Front Page Top

#8 Russia needs an enemy. China already has plenty.

Posted by Iblis 2012-01-21 10:51|| 2012-01-21 10:51|| Front Page Top

#9 Two of the possibilities:

(1) Russian incomes are several times higher, but growth is much slower, so seeking out a foreign bogeyman is a poll-tested way to get out of the electoral doldrums.

(2) Putin is merely responding to underlying popular attitudes - something that the Chinese government doesn't have to, except during exceptional incidents like the EP-3 crash landing or the Belgrade embassy bombing.

I suspect (2) is a much bigger factor than many realize.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2012-01-21 18:34|| 2012-01-21 18:34|| Front Page Top

#10 Chinese ownership of what's now the Russian Far East was a lot longer than just the Yuan dynasty; they controlled it for the Ming and parts of the Qing dynasty.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-01-21 20:47|| 2012-01-21 20:47|| Front Page Top

#11 ...oh #6 mentioned specifically Siberia and then identified Russia separately. The Eastern part of Russia was under the Mongol yoke for quite a time. While Russia has been invaded unsuccessfully many times from the West, it was that Mongol one from the East that was most successful.

Posted by Procopius2k 2012-01-21 22:04|| 2012-01-21 22:04|| Front Page Top

23:52 texhooey
23:15 Uncle Phester
23:02 Northern Cousin
22:59 Bugs Glomoque3110
22:50 Alaska Paul
22:41 Bugs Glomoque3110
22:21 JohnQC
22:18 JosephMendiola
22:09 Uncle Phester
22:04 Bugs Glomoque3110
22:04 Procopius2k
21:32 Super Hose
21:04 Glenmore
21:04 Ominemble Munster1771
20:47 Thing From Snowy Mountain
20:09 Super Hose
20:05 Zhang Fei
19:55 Cancersat 1 Operations
18:59 Mizzou Mafia
18:40 Lord Garth
18:34 Zhang Fei
18:34 Super Hose
18:23 Super Hose
18:23 Eric Jablow