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2010-10-24 Home Front: WoT

WikiLeaks Founder on the Run, Trailed by Notoriety

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Posted by Steve White 2010-10-24 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 Dead man whining.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2010-10-24 00:40|| 2010-10-24 00:40|| Front Page Top

#2 It helps if you know that Assange and his parents belonged to a cult known as The Great White Brotherhood
He still has the look of one of Hamilton-Byrne's "children" about him.

Posted by tipper 2010-10-24 00:59|| 2010-10-24 00:59|| Front Page Top

#3 Western governments have made an art form out of hiding the truth and spinning facts so they are misinterpreted.

It is very difficult for journalists in eg: Australia to get at any semblance of the truth

You can apply under freedom of information laws. A year later you may get some response that you will have to pay lots of money for and in which everything of interest is blanked out.

Any bureaucrat or government worker that leaks information to the public sphere is hunted down by police and then hounded through the courts by teams of highly-paid lawyers. Their lives are ruined.

The world needs Wikileaks.

If not for Wikileaks, how would we know there is a problem with human rights abuses in the Iraqi military now?

We could guess but we would never know, it would never be documented.

We should be thankful to Wikileaks for releasing those documents and increasing our knowledge of what is going on in Iraq since our own governments hide it from us.

I do not buy the government line about it being a security threat.

Of course they will try to spin it that way to justify the way they have systematically hidden information from we the voting public.

i think Julian Assange is a hero.

Look how they have attacked him - look how he is pursued with vexatious allegations and spied on and followed

How much do our Governments now respect free speech and the human rights of our own citizens?

not much and declining.

When the journalists are attacked for revealing the truth you know that something is wrong.

This is a warning, heed it well. I have loved Rantburg for many years: but look at what is really going on here behind the PR spin.

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 01:07|| 2010-10-24 01:07|| Front Page Top

#4 How many informers and others have been killed because Assanage leaked their identities?

Some things need to be kept secret because peoples very lives depend on it. Wikileaks crossed the line in that one.

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-10-24 01:17|| 2010-10-24 01:17|| Front Page Top

#5 anon1 - I strongly disagree with you and hope that Assange meets the same fate that numerous people he outed (for doing the right thing) will suffer. You have taken several steps down in my esteem levels for the reasons noted already. It's always a black and white situation for dreamers who don't suffer the consequences. Goodnight and I hope you somehow are allowed to dream the dreams of those soon to be slaughtered for your "truth".

Posted by Frank G 2010-10-24 01:23|| 2010-10-24 01:23|| Front Page Top

#6 I do not buy the government line about it being a security threat.

These documents were not at at all properly redacted by WikiLeaks. The names of many (hundreds?) of informants were revealed. Western press have stated that the Taliban are hunting down the named informers and killing when found. People who are informing have stopped doing so, and those who might have informed will not due to the loss of credibility of Coaliton security procedures. Coalition forces are now without a valuable source of information such as where bombs are buried, who the bad guys are and where they are hiding out. Coalition forces will be conducting operations without this valuable information.

Coalition forces may have already died due to this lack of information. Afghan citizens are dying because of the information revealed by WikiLeaks.

That's the downside.

What's the upside that counts on the ground in Afghanistan?

Petraus doesn't appreciate it. The Taliban do.

It ain't worth it.

Posted by gorb 2010-10-24 01:29|| 2010-10-24 01:29|| Front Page Top

#7 informants who feel they are at risk because they have been named by wikileaks should be given asylum in the US/Australia

and we have plenty of room for them after we kick out the illegal immigrants

but Wikileaks is to be applauded for turning on the light

when the government is hiding the facts and leaving us in the dark

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:02|| 2010-10-24 02:02|| Front Page Top

#8 also: what about the thousands who will die and who have died because the truth has not been outed

when the public cannot call the government to account

there are just as many of them.

we cannot make good decisions as a democracy without the public being informed.

maybe the right answer is to do something differently

but those who run the show will never be forced to change tack unless the public knows what is going on

freedom of information is never wrong even if the consequences are unpleasant short-term

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:10|| 2010-10-24 02:10|| Front Page Top

#9 also: what about the thousands who will die and who have died because the truth has not been outed

when the public cannot call the government to account

there are just as many of them.

we cannot make good decisions as a democracy without the public being informed.

maybe the right answer is to do something differently

but those who run the show will never be forced to change tack unless the public knows what is going on

freedom of information is never wrong even if the consequences are unpleasant for some in the short-term

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:10|| 2010-10-24 02:10|| Front Page Top

#10 informants who feel they are at risk because they have been named by wikileaks should be given asylum in the US/Australia

Informants shouldn't have to be uprooted from their homes and lives to live in a country where they have no useful skills.

what about the thousands who will die and who have died because the truth has not been outed

Name one in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Posted by gorb 2010-10-24 02:21|| 2010-10-24 02:21|| Front Page Top

#11 jtrdu

Posted by Ralphs son Johnnie 2010-10-24 02:28|| 2010-10-24 02:28|| Front Page Top

#12 righto Gorb, i will take your point and make a reply

who has died because we have been kept in the dark?

These documents stretch from 2004 to 2009

If it had been widely known in, say, 2005, that the Iraqi security forces that *we* set up were torturing and murdering civilians, the public pressure in the US and Australia would have forced our governments to clean up Iraq's act before power was handed back.

That means that some of those same people found to be murdered in the documents might still be alive had we all known.

Secondly wide and documented knowledge that Iran was behind a lot of the trouble could have enabled public support for a stronger political stance against Iran - potentially drying up that avenue. Maybe their nuclear program would not be so advanced now also.

Keeping the public in the dark is the worst possible thing that can happen

it is *not* for our own protection

as to your first point as to why should people be uprooted and moved to countries where they have no skills, I say: it's better than being murdered for having aided the US. It is an alternative to their "lives being at risk" and shows that their lives do *not* have to be at risk because of wikileaks.

This would not be a punishment but a reward: many Afghanis *want* new lives in Australia/USA simply because there is more future here anyway. It's not for nothing that many come here illegally in rickety boats.

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:42|| 2010-10-24 02:42|| Front Page Top

#13 If I were feeling really vindictive I would wish Assange and those who favor the un-redacted release of those confidants names to have their own names and address information given to the families of those killed because of these releases. I believe those Muslims are into the "eye for an eye" thing.

Those if favor of the releases shouldn't have a problem giving out their own names as it's all for the "greater good". /s

Posted by tipover 2010-10-24 02:44|| 2010-10-24 02:44|| Front Page Top

#14 plus i would add: if wikileaks is allowed to flourish and be translated and become a worldwide phenomenon

the transformative power of truth will be amazing.

Just imagine the day when disgruntled party members of the CCP post Chinese documents detailing such horrors as the harvesting of organs from political prisoners

or same from Russia

or from Iran

Wikileaks, because it ensures anonymity for the source, is the MOST valuable thing that has been invented for the future of humane civil society since the internet

to allow our governments to turn on it and on Julian Assange because they are sensitive to public criticism would be to turn our backs on the enlightenment principles that make our countries great

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:47|| 2010-10-24 02:47|| Front Page Top

#15 hello tipover

i will respond also to you

Yes, I agree the names should be redacted

But the government will harp on that as an excuse to trash Wikileaks all together

which for reasons stated above, would be like killing the internet before it got properly started

wikileaks can change the world for the better. Killing and victimising journalists is what the chinese, russians and fascists all around the world do

if we start doing the same.. as is happening to Julian Assange then we are no better than those regimes

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 02:53|| 2010-10-24 02:53|| Front Page Top

#16 OK, I'll see your nameless lives saved and raise you by a factor of 10x.

You are assuming limitless resources by those trying to do good.

But, at the peak of our involvement, we only had on the order of 250,000 soldiers on the ground, surrounded by a sea of 20M Iraqis. There is now practical way in hades that at a ratio of 1:100 that we stood a chance of accomplishing such a noble goal without the involvement of the Iraqis. Along with Iraqis, or any other culture for that matter, comes the Iraqi culture, which I don't think even you could wipe out in your entire lifetime. Even if Obama made you the "Remake Iraqi Culture Czar", and even if you had an RB mod bat to knock some sense into their thick skulls.

We got rid of Saddam and showed a few to value their country over personal gain. That is the course that has resulted in a net gain of lives vs. his remaining in power. Yes, some have died as a result of our actions and of a process with necessarily inherent flaws. But many more are alive and/or living in dignity today as a result. With Assang's interference, it has weakened the hand of the few that are over there in a position to make a difference.

Now names, sources and methods and information that will lead to their revelation have been released into the wild.

I don't think I mind that Iranian and Pakistain involvement should be revealed, but some smart folks have decided that it would be better kept under wraps for whatever reason. And I don't think even my most liberal friends can say with a straight face anymore that Iran is the pluralistic, benificent and democratic society that they once thought it to be with a straight face.

I assume the NYT and other opposing forces for good have been looking for something worth everyone knowing. But I haven't heard anything that I consider worthy of leaking.

And think twice about granting someone residence in the US as being some kind of gift. Being the husband of an immigrant I can assure you that leaving their families behind is an offsetting punishment. On top of that, what are these folks going to do here while they are missing their families? About the best they could hope to do if they are from Afghanistan is to pick up trash since they don't know the language, can't read or write and don't know how to drive. Who will pay for their accomodations for the rest of their lives? Not all of them stand any kind of chance of fitting in here.

I don't want them here except as a measure of last resort, which we shouldn't have to resort to. And I certainly don't want their families here given how the Taliban there pits brother against brother and father against son. All some Taliban would have to do is claim to be an informant and there you are.

That said, I wouldn't mind all these documents being released 25 years after the fact when it is too late for the enemy to gain any value from them, but we can still ask the relevant parties for clarifications and go after them if necessary and punish them.

Posted by gorb 2010-10-24 03:27|| 2010-10-24 03:27|| Front Page Top

#17 Anon1, this guy is no hero - he has the blood of good people on his hands. I think he needs killin' and I will laugh when he dies.

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2010-10-24 03:46|| 2010-10-24 03:46|| Front Page Top

#18 You make it sound like a rather bad Hollywood movie - or a casualty report by the Lancet. While there were incidents (as happens in *every* war). The mere fact that there was a report to _leak_ means that they had been taken seriously.

Also - it's been public knowledge, at least for anyone paying attention, that Iran was behind a lot of the Iraqi 'insurgency' for several years. Don't look at the government for hiding that one. Look no further than the MSM.

Afghan's come here in rickety boats? You do know that Afghanistan is land-locked right?

And I would suggest anyone who thinks that there should be no secrets to kindly publish their drivers license number, SSN, all their credit card numbers, expiration dates and that ccw number (or whatever its called).

Posted by CrazyFool 2010-10-24 05:26|| 2010-10-24 05:26|| Front Page Top

#19 WikiLeaks boss walks out on CNN interview after reporter asks him about HIS private life

Posted by tipper 2010-10-24 06:11|| 2010-10-24 06:11|| Front Page Top

#20 He's providing material aid and comfort to terrorists. That makes him a terrorist. He should be captured, interrogated and disposed of.

Posted by Silentbrick 2010-10-24 07:46|| 2010-10-24 07:46|| Front Page Top

#21 crazyfool: the afghans come to australia in rickety boats after *first* flying to indonesia. They are our illegal immigrants.

Gorb: I understand the limits of logistics and hard reality. The dreamers think you can just invade a country and it will all be like Germany/Japan after WWII. Well I knew that would not be the case from the start and also that the home front can be the worst enemy.

BUT

We need the lights to be on and our eyes to be open.

our Governments are TOO GOOD now at hiding/spinning the truth. We are largely kept in the dark.

We need wikileaks to turn on the lights.

If logistical reality means it is too hard for us to win or to win at too great a cost in Afghanistan then we need to have an informed debate about what our real goals are there.

And what is the point of us being there.

What is the cost-benefit analysis now

It might be better for us to withdraw and simply leave them to fester.

It might not be possible to win Afghanistan

or to win it at such a huge cost in lives and in such a degradation of the way we conduct ourselves that the victory is pyrrhic.

I was all for invading that country and ridding it of the taliban, also for invading iraq

But it is becoming increasingly clear to me that we need a better quality of information to really know what is going on there. Wikileaks is just fine by me

And Wikileaks is not just about Iraq/Afghanistan, it is there for every nation to use and for people to post things up.

Wikileaks cannot make us lose, or weaken the systems we set up - if we lose, it would be our OWN fault.

If the people we set up in Iraq are doing a *good* job and wikileaks reveals just an aberration then the people who live there will know this and will support the system we encouraged.

If it is not working then there will be further turmoil and our enemies will defeat our structure.

Wikileaks reporting the truth will have nil effect on this other than to make us back at home more informed

Wikileaks means we won't have to struggle on senselessly for decades due to the egos and careers of a few elite men in power, losing blood and treasure in a pointless fruitless exercise, if that is what it is becoming.

If there is more freedom for the media to talk about what is really going on - and if we are not fed a constant diet of lies about how much the people love us there, and how we are 'winning'.

I will tell you a little story that is true.

Last year an Australian man named Nigel Brennan was kidnapped alongside Canadian Amanda Lindhout in Mogadishu, Somalia.

the Australian Government warned all media outlets to be quiet and not report anything about his kidnapping - for his own safety and security.

meanwhile the joint taskforce of Australia and Canada flew around southern africa spending millions of dollars doing all the wrong things.

they even paid a "negotiator" ransom money which he ran away with. He didn't even know the kidnappers.

For a year they sat captive while the media clammed up on the say-so of the australian and canadian governments "in the interests of the hostages"

let me tell you a little fact

it wasn't in their interests

it wasn't them that was protected

it was bungling bureaucrats who got their whole strategy wrong, and if a little light had been shed earlier on, those people would have come home months earlier than they did.

Instead the australian government repeatedly offered a lowball ransom figure which annoyed the kidnappers.

After a year, when Nigel was said to be passing blood and close to death, Australian Greens senator Bob Brown and entrepreneur Dick Smith stumped up the cash to free the pair.

Only thanks to them are they freed.

So really in whose interest was it for there to be a media blackout?

anybody who thinks Wikileaks is the enemy is kidding themselves.

Our troops NEED us to keep a vigilant watch on the bureaucrats who make the decisions to send them hither and thither

they are fat desk-jockeys with big egos who like playing power politics in the office. they don't care if our troops live or die.

so we NEED Wikileaks to tell us and the world when they are failing.

NOBODY ever hides the truth from you for your own protection or so we can win. They are hiding their own stuff-ups. They are covering their own tails.

Scooter McGruder: I respectfully disagree. I continue to think Assange is a hero. I just hope he set up his system to continue independently of whether he lives or dies because he is not likely to live long. Our governments have moved way too far from respecting the rights of our own citizens

Posted by anon1 2010-10-24 07:48|| 2010-10-24 07:48|| Front Page Top

#22 Comin' ta git ya.

Nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

Posted by Anonymoose 2010-10-24 09:45|| 2010-10-24 09:45|| Front Page Top

#23 Anon1,

So do you think the US gov't was in on 9-11?

Posted by Black Charlie Chinemble5313 2010-10-24 12:10|| 2010-10-24 12:10|| Front Page Top

#24 Tipper, that piece of information is the single most interesting thing I've seen this week.

I have often wondered about foreign intelligence (read: Soviet bloc) use and exploitation of cult organizations. Much food for thought here. Thank you.

Posted by Pstanley 2010-10-24 13:02|| 2010-10-24 13:02|| Front Page Top

#25 anon1, you have been reading Rantburg for years. What, exactly, is new to you in the material that Wikileaks revealed? Because I have to tell you, I haven't read anything that I found new or surprising, only confirmatory details.

I am a housewife who got partway to a university degree. I have absolutely no special skills or training. My computer skills are less than it takes to find the good p0rnography on the internet.

And yet I managed to know about everything that has been revealed from Wikileaks dump thus far, and I knew about it years ago -- when it was happening. It was all out there in open source material newspapers of the world and the blogs. The only ones who didn't know were the ones who chose not to look for themselves. And truth to tell, anyone who closed his eyes so tightly for so long is not entitled to damaging secrets.

I've defended you against others here, anon1, but right now I do not like you much at all. You are advocating for the right to hand my country to those who would kill me and mine as the Nazis once tried to do to my mother.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-10-24 14:03|| 2010-10-24 14:03|| Front Page Top

#26 Word, tw.

You must have spent Saturday sharpening your scalpel. ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-10-24 14:20|| 2010-10-24 14:20|| Front Page Top

#27 Mr. anon, are you in the "sedition and treason is so yesterday" camp? Would that also be the 'greater planetary good allows a few inconvenient deaths' smugness philosophy?
Too bad Mr. Assange was turned down in Sweden for his citizenship application but I'm sure his martydom will be celebrated soon in Berkeley.

Posted by Muggsy Glink 2010-10-24 14:21|| 2010-10-24 14:21|| Front Page Top

#28 "I'm sure his martydom will be celebrated soon in Berkeley"

Fingers crossed, MG....

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-10-24 14:23|| 2010-10-24 14:23|| Front Page Top

#29 Anon1

Let me tell you a story, smart-ass.

Back when I still nursed delusions about being a writer I had a conversation with a nationalist Chinese student about his country in which he said all kinds of less than complimentary things about Nationalist China, the KMT, etc.

I write a story the next day, which was published, about the conversation without revealing the name of the source. Nationalist Chinese students were up in arms about it. They complained; they threatened; they whined; they did everything they could to tell who was the bastard who said them awful things.

I did not tell them anything because I knew what would happen to him if I did, the least of which was to be trundled back to Taiwan.

Now if you tell me that agreeing hide his identity is a noble gesture, how is protecting the identity of a field agent from actual mortal danger is any less noble and by contrast any less excreble if the name is released?

Democracy and freedom sits high, but securely on many pedestals, and like it or not, security is foremost of those pedestals. It is a deal between the individual and the society that in exchange for a wide range of personal liberties, security forces get to do everythung they can within a strict legal freamwork to protect those liberties. That's the deal. There is nothing else that works.

Revealing those names mean the deal's off. Someone else on our side might step up, but as for the other side of the humint equation, the deal is gone for at least a generation.

So, when a faux man of the people like your hero places my people in danger, he is not supporting democracy or freedom; he is supporting anarchy and he is enabling our enemies.

And that places freedom and democracy in danger.

Posted by badanov 2010-10-24 14:34|| http://www.freefirezone.org 2010-10-24 14:34|| Front Page Top

#30 I'm in for a little wiki-leaks martyrdom too.

anon1 - if we only had an ignore button...

Posted by Hellfish 2010-10-24 14:35|| 2010-10-24 14:35|| Front Page Top

#31 When the journalists are attacked for revealing the truth you know that something is wrong.

Killing and victimising journalists is what the chinese, russians and fascists all around the world do.

anon1,
WikiLeaks is NOT journalism. It is a digital repository of raw data. And Julian Assange is NOT a journalist. He is a man with an agenda. Assange conveniently conflates those facts as a way to falsely portray himself as a truth seeker. If you notice he has a habit of changing his roles under scrutiny. When criticized for unethical journalism he claims to simply be the source. Then when questioned about the legality of dissemination of classified information he claims to be a clearinghouse citing freedom of the press statutes. His actions expose him to be more of a snake then a hero.

Posted by DepotGuy 2010-10-24 14:36|| 2010-10-24 14:36|| Front Page Top

#32 We should start an Assange death pool.

The problem with his long-term survival is that he has made many enemies other than the US government. Unfortunately, now that he is a hero and icon to the media-left, the CIA will automatically get the blame if he is liquidated. This is as certain as the sun rising in the morning. Can you imagine asshats like Cynthia McKinney or George Galloway blaming anyone other than the CIA if Assange is unceremoniously despatched some fine day?

His other enemies, the Chinese, the Russian mafia, even the Zimbabwean secret service, know this. With the certainty that the blame will be diverted to the Americans, at least enough to muddy the waters and mitigate the potential political and diplomatic fall-out, they will choose to act. The cultural left's reflexive, utterly predictable hatred of the CIA and the Pentagon has in fact endangered its newest hero.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2010-10-24 15:51|| 2010-10-24 15:51|| Front Page Top

#33 A foreign power kills Julian Assange. CIA gets the blame. Liberals investigate, find nothing.

I like it.

Posted by badanov 2010-10-24 16:15|| http://www.freefirezone.org 2010-10-24 16:15|| Front Page Top

#34 Bad - you can bet the Dubai Chief of Police would identify Teh Juice Mossad as behind it...

Posted by Frank G 2010-10-24 16:25|| 2010-10-24 16:25|| Front Page Top

#35 Things have a way of taking care of themselves. Who knows, maybe the family of one of the 1800 Afghans who names were publish by Wikileaks will seek revenge against Assange. Grudges are long held in that part of the world. Assange may end up one day like Theo van Gogh.

Posted by JohnQC 2010-10-24 18:39|| 2010-10-24 18:39|| Front Page Top

#36 Assange's eyes are soulless. I saw that before I knew who he was.

Posted by gorb 2010-10-24 23:44|| 2010-10-24 23:44|| Front Page Top

23:56 gorb
23:44 gorb
23:23 JosephMendiola
23:15 JosephMendiola
23:10 JosephMendiola
23:05 JosephMendiola
22:58 Sgt.Mom
22:49 OldSpook
22:43 Mullah Richard
22:36 Pappy
22:34 Pappy
22:27 Pappy
22:18 Procopius2k
22:16 CrazyFool
22:14 OldSpook
22:07 To the real patriots not the fake ones
20:25 trailing wife
20:24 JosephMendiola
20:24 trailing wife
20:11 JosephMendiola
20:06 Pappy
20:05 JosephMendiola
20:01 Procopius2k
19:42 Goldies Every Damn Where