Article

2008-08-26 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Vigilante Jerusalem Jews beat 'indecent' woman

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Posted by Fred 2008-08-26 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 Every society has its vicious pigs. The key is to keep down the percentage. I think Israel may want to rethink current tactics in that direction.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 07:46|| 2008-08-26 07:46|| Front Page Top

#2 I bet they had at least three eye witnesses who watched the dastardly deed, and ready to swear on the Torah, too.

Posted by Danielle 2008-08-26 08:44|| 2008-08-26 08:44|| Front Page Top

#3 from what I can gather the modesty squads are acting without approval of even ultra-O rabbis. But the Ultra-O rabbis arent clamping down on them either.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 09:02|| 2008-08-26 09:02|| Front Page Top

#4 of a 31-year-old divorcee in Occupied Jerusalem

Saw, that, I wondered where Fred had gotten teh clip this time. Al ARabiyah, lol. Fred, the Israeli papers have much more detail on stuff like this (and no, they dont sympathize with the ultra-O, esp Haaretz) But even Haaretz wont refer to Jerusalem that way.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 09:04|| 2008-08-26 09:04|| Front Page Top

#5 Israel can be a funky place at times. They have one of the most graphic and sleazy prostitution problems imaginable, real Sodom & Gomorrah stuff that would have been frowned on even in old Tijuana or Havana.

Women's rights and customs for some is right up there with Saudi Arabia, fanatical conservatism side by side with San Francisco flamboyancy.

In some of the larger sects, all married women shave their heads and wear wigs, which created a crisis when it was discovered that the human hair was obtained in India, where it was obtained during a Hindu religious ritual, making it tref.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-26 11:14|| 2008-08-26 11:14|| Front Page Top

#6 The difference is that those guys are facing prison times and the scorn of their neighbours while in a Maulim country their counterparts would get a medal.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-08-26 12:17|| 2008-08-26 12:17|| Front Page Top

#7 TW, this doesn't sound right. As the 'Burg's resident expert on things Jewish, can you comment on this? Are the ultra-Orthodox prone to using violence to sort such things out?

Posted by Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-08-26 13:14|| 2008-08-26 13:14|| Front Page Top

#8 In some of the larger sects, all married women shave their heads and wear wigs,

in most hasidic groups (i could give you the ritual reasons, but i think it would bore most), in the US as well. But membership in those groups is voluntary - while theres massive family pressure not to breakaway, I know men and women who have done so.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 13:53|| 2008-08-26 13:53|| Front Page Top

#9 in general the ultra-O dont use violence, although in Jerusalem there are some neighborhoods where they see the secular world pushing in on them, and theyve been known to throw rocks at cars that pass on the shabbas. Women in "procative" clothing are more likely to get verbal harassment. If youre really interested in this stuff its written about EXTENSIVELY in papers like Haaretz (a left secularist israeli daily) I wouldnt deny that its an issue, but its not like KSA.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 13:55|| 2008-08-26 13:55|| Front Page Top

#10 What I wonder is the violence shown in this incident typical or atypical? To me it seems atypical, but then again, the only times I have been there have been as a tourist on a pilgramage. I guess they kept us Christian Goyim away from those parts of town.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-26 14:09|| 2008-08-26 14:09|| Front Page Top

#11 Jolutch Mussolini7800, your faith in my knowledge is truly flattering. However, liberalhawk really knows a great deal more about such things than I do, and covers it well in the comments above. I took 5th place in my Hebrew high school bible contest (out of the six in my grade who tried, sadly enough), but that is ancient history in more ways than one.

Anonymoose, part of the problem the rabbis had with the Indian hair wigs is that the women had them so beautifully styled they were as attractive as their own hair would have been... and just as fussed over. I was once told that a good Indian hair wig cost $1000 or more before adding in the price of cutting and styling, and an Orthodox woman might have several in different lengths; I don't know if they go in for colours as well.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 14:18|| 2008-08-26 14:18|| Front Page Top

#12 Remember that most of the observant jews y'all know here in America are educated, and therefore non-violent. Not true with these guys.

They are a separate culture from the rest of us. They only consider other jews their brethren if it is convenient.

Posted by Lamed Vavnik 2008-08-26 14:52|| 2008-08-26 14:52|| Front Page Top

#13 Hmmmmm..."Not Jewish Enough"?

Posted by tu3031 2008-08-26 14:55|| 2008-08-26 14:55|| Front Page Top

#14 Thanks to LH and TW for shedding some badly-needed light on this unusual issue. The lefties are always trying to play the moral equivalence card. Actual, fact-based information is the only way to trump it.

Posted by Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-08-26 15:38|| 2008-08-26 15:38|| Front Page Top

#15 A rabbi once said that every Jew stands in a line, side by side, secretly hoping to be more liberal and free, like the Jew to his left, but very self conscious about the more orthodox Jew to his right, who is looking at him disapprovingly while saying tsk-tsk under his breath.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-26 16:53|| 2008-08-26 16:53|| Front Page Top

#16 fwiw, the haredim in Jerusalem are not monolithic either

there are groups that don't like each other (wigs vs. hats, zionism vs anti-zionism, people who want to rebuild on the temple mount vs. people who say that is an unpardonable sin)

the beating by the modesty squad could well have been an intramural issue

also, the haredim are frequently referred to perjoratively as 'black hats' or sometimes shortened to 'black' and a neighborhood with increasing haredi population is referred to as 'going black'

Posted by mhw">mhw 2008-08-26 17:25|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2008-08-26 17:25|| Front Page Top

#17 What I wonder is the violence shown in this incident typical or atypical? To me it seems atypical, but then again, the only times I have been there have been as a tourist on a pilgramage. I guess they kept us Christian Goyim away from those parts of town.

afaict its atypical, but still common enough to be noted as an issue of concern.

And I doubt any gentiles would have been very interested in an ultra-O area like Mea Shearim. The gawkers who go are mainly non-O Jews.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 17:33|| 2008-08-26 17:33|| Front Page Top

#18 There are also some folks who convert to ultra-O under the influence of populist preachers. Im told that has an effect as well.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 17:38|| 2008-08-26 17:38|| Front Page Top

#19 The DIFFERENCE is that Jews are incensed that this happened, and they will take steps to assure it does not happen again.

Contrast that to the Muslim reaction to any offensive act by fellow Muslims. Crickets.

Posted by PlanetDan 2008-08-26 17:49|| 2008-08-26 17:49|| Front Page Top

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