Article

2008-08-26 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Conflict with Russia cost us $2.3bn: Mikheil Saakashvili

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Posted by john frum 2008-08-26 13:30|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Restrict travel by Russian Diplomats has been suggested by Georgia. That might actually be useful, as it keeps the Russian mafioso fat cats from their luxuries in the west, letting them feel some personal consequence for their actions.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-26 14:03|| 2008-08-26 14:03|| Front Page Top

#2 And if Russia decided that Mexican nationalist claims on Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California, were legitimate, I suppose Russia could invade without insipid blather from the stupid?

Are you decent people? Four millions exiled Iraqis and about a million more caused by your aggression and re-opening of Islam's civil war, would disagree.

And why are you Bushies looking the other way now that Drunk-One's reckless economic policies are about to cause depression?

You simpletons are testimony to the sorry state of US education. The Neocons wouldn't give do-nut dunkers like you the time of day. Moral supremacy my ass.

Posted by I See Half-Whits 2008-08-26 14:16|| 2008-08-26 14:16|| Front Page Top

#3 Dude, this is what the georgians think of you:

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-26 14:18|| 2008-08-26 14:18|| Front Page Top

#4 It's spelt halfwit, my dear. Do try to get your insults right.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 14:28|| 2008-08-26 14:28|| Front Page Top

#5 Hello Half-Wit. I see we have another Putin stooge here.

You know, we really don;t care what false images you have of us- the world condemns you and sees through your lies.

Russian troops moved FIRST, before Georgian forces entered South Osettia - there is now mounting evidence to shwo Russian troops were moved through the Roki tunnin on Aug 6, and were staging in behind SO irregulars who were illegally armed, and who were firing at Georgian peacekeepers from behind Russian units.

Russian troops protected and armed seperatists, they were partisan, not peace keepers, so there's another one of your cherished lies.

Russian troops were looting, and were permitting ethnic cleansing under their guns by S.O. thugs.

Russia has repeatedly reniged on it duties to withdraw fully to the status quo ante, and to allow press and neutral observers in.

And mr Hlafwit, where is the justification for the looting and sacking of Poti, and the continued occupation thre?

What about the ethnic cleansing done in the George, where georgians were forced form their homes which were then looted and burned?

The world sees Russia for what it is now, a poor culturally barren nation that is shrinking in size and importance, who is dependant upon oil. Once that runs out, you guys are meaniningless apart from your nuclear arsenal. You are being run by a Mafia-like set of thugs who trade on jingoistic Russian Nationalism.

You'd best be careful that China doesnt follow your example of issuing Chinese passports to all those ethnic Chinese in the east - you'll lose half of sibera and all of the east, including Vladivosotok. Your puny army is no match for the Chinese should they decide to take it.

If you are smart, as a people, you will come to your senses, stop trying to reestablish the Russian Empire by arms, and get rid of the thugs who are destroying you from within while blinding you with nationalism. It will end with YOUR destruction if you do not act.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-26 14:39|| 2008-08-26 14:39|| Front Page Top

#6 And if Russia decided that Mexican nationalist claims on Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California, were legitimate, I suppose Russia could invade without insipid blather from the stupid?

You are claiming S Ossetia is part of Russia as Arizona is of the USA?

Are you decent people? Four millions exiled Iraqis and about a million more caused by your aggression and re-opening of Islam's civil war, would disagree.

Whether they would or not, is not relevant to this issue. As you may note, France and Germany which opposed our invasion of Iraq also have denounced Russian aggression in georgia. As for US restarting a civil war in Islam, Im not sure what you are referring to.

And why are you Bushies looking the other way now that Drunk-One's reckless economic policies are about to cause depression?

Im not a Bush supporter. I never voted for Bush, and I am considering voting for Bide- er for Obama.

You simpletons are testimony to the sorry state of US education. The Neocons wouldn't give do-nut dunkers like you the time of day. Moral supremacy my ass.

Its not about moral supremacy, its about Russian aggression in Georgia.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 15:33|| 2008-08-26 15:33|| Front Page Top

#7 The canards buster

Yea, Totten. Patience, may be a bit slow.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 15:46|| 2008-08-26 15:46|| Front Page Top

#8 Millions of Mexicans do not accept American sovereignty over 4 US states.

On July 15, US advisors were taped training Georgian ethnic cleansers in use of artillery and rockets. Google "Immediate Response 2008" to see for your selves.

At the same time, Cheney ordered his top man to present for final implementation, a Pentaqon game plan ("Operation Clean Fields") for the use of mass murder as means to ethnic cleansing, which was carried out with US advisors directing strikes, during the opening of the Olympics.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/08/georgia-war.html
UNSOT satellite records disprove coverup accusations of Russian tank movement, and confirm residential targeting of Tskhinvali.

Russian intelligence has confirmed that the murder batallions commenced the journey to the outskirts of Tskhinvali, early on the evening of Aug. 7. The ethnic-cleansing barrage (half of Tskhinvali residents were cleansed) commenced at 11:30 PM. At midnight, Georgian state TV broadcast film of rocket attacks, ordered by Saakashvili.

Russian tanks didn't enter South Ossetia until 14.5 hours after the attacks. Small artillery weapons were used to repel Georgian tanks. Georgian troops were lukewarm on the attack, because the President is extremely unpopular, and quickly abandoned their uniforms and military equipment.

Russian troops have captured the entire scope of US and Israeli high tech weaponry. US advisors will soon be put in the position of having to admit to being ordered to commit war crimes. Also, NATO and OSCE officials were lied to by the US government.

Russian blogs are reporting that intelligence, sufficiently damaging to destroy the McCain presidency, and cause his arrest under US Code 50, is being withheld pending completion of the Republican Convention.

So much for your tangled weave of lies. Hope you like Obama; he seems to be a decent man.

Posted by I See Half-Whits 2008-08-26 15:56|| 2008-08-26 15:56|| Front Page Top

#9 Seems pretty heavy handed. I'd approach it as bit more subtly. Hang around for a while, let your nym become familiar, like that donut dunker that was here until two days before you showed up. Ol' whatisname?...Gentle?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-26 16:00|| 2008-08-26 16:00|| Front Page Top

#10 A website close to Pentagon Gamers, posted the following. Read it for yourselves, and contemplate Russia's Play when Bush - already despised by 80% of his American victims - is a dead duck. Wonder what they will do when the American media starts to portray Saakashvili as the pathological liar and ethnic cleanser that he is? You LOSE!
-------------------
The Georgian incursion gave the US political cover to make an ABM deal with Poland, get access to Ukranian radar intelligence, and maybe get enhanced facilities inside the Black Sea. Since the Black Sea opens onto the Med, but it doesnt link to Russian Northern, Pacific or Baltic Fleets NATO has the ability to surge vessels into it in a way that cant be matched by the Russians. Of course, the Russians could use anti-ship airpower, but that would set off Armaggedon.

What Id fear most from the Russian point of view is a request by Georgia to demiltarize ports it legally owns except for one or two under NATO control. Under International Law, the Western ports remain Georgian. Over time, the Georgians can diplomatically ensure that the Russian Army cannot be resupplied by sea. If the Russians send their convoys, the ports can be mined before their arrival by air with Georgian permission. This means the Georgians, via NATO can have command of the sea while the Russian Army must supply itself overland. Thats fine for now, with the weather good. But in the winter, things will be different, especially if they face a Georgian insurgency. And if the roads are closed or mined by Georgian guerillas, then logistically supplying the Russian occupation Army becomes harder yet.

So I dont see a confrontation with Russia, rather a slow strangulation of its forces should they decide to stay. If they pull back into Russia, or even into Abkhazia or South Ossetia, I dont see that NATO forces will do anything to discomfit them. As I said, Putin should cash in now, while the gettins good.

Posted by I See Half-Whits 2008-08-26 16:03|| 2008-08-26 16:03|| Front Page Top

#11 Nimble Spemble:

I'll cut the insults - see name change - because the Caucasus Crisis isn't about personality.

Posted by I See 2008-08-26 16:04|| 2008-08-26 16:04|| Front Page Top

#12 Try Blind Carpenter.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-26 16:06|| 2008-08-26 16:06|| Front Page Top

#13 It is charming to see Mastrovia re-introduced by the FSB. I've personally missed hearing from the, was it the 12th Directorate?, but nice toknow you guys are back in the game, with much better language skills. Still, signature phrases like "running-dog yakee imperialists" did always add a special touch to your tortured resoning and outright prevarications. Having seen Russia return to it's classic roots of kleptocracy and oligarchy is amusing only to an extent. Putie should realise it will take a long time to take your decent military technology and woefully pathetic maintenance skills and get your armed forces ready for a confrontation with a serious opponent. But then, anyone who would cite a "UNSOT satellite records" has no problem with actual facts.
This is going to be amusing to watch clown. Do us the favor of maintaning the same name to aviod the need to look for the common speech pattern defects in every post.

Posted by NoMoreBS">NoMoreBS 2008-08-26 17:00|| 2008-08-26 17:00|| Front Page Top

#14 I'll be back to fisk this crap - from HalfWit.

But first off, the "trainign: he refers to of "death squads' is US Army trainign of Goergian artillery units in Goergia, on how to properly target so as to reduce collateral damage.

Thats lie #1 from our putin-stooge.

Secondarily, provide corroborating documentation form a credible soruce for your claims halfwit, or see them demolished as the tissue of lies they are.

Youur buddies in the former KGB have to come up with better than thte old "Cheny-conspiracy" crap that has been thoroughly debunked. Furhtermore, your heavy handed blatant lying cold-war tyle doesnt pass even mild fact checking on the internet now.

Why not just give up posting your lies - or are you being paid by the line by the KGB?

Somoen else wants to take up a partial fisking, I'll chime in later.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-26 17:14|| 2008-08-26 17:14|| Front Page Top

#15 Millions of Mexicans do not accept American sovereignty over 4 US states.

but the UN does, and its recognized by every state in the world, including mexico, so its irrelevant.

On July 15, US advisors were taped training Georgian ethnic cleansers in use of artillery and rockets. Google "Immediate Response 2008" to see for your selves.

Training in use of artillery is quite legal.

'UNSOT satellite records disprove coverup accusations of Russian tank movement, and confirm residential targeting of Tskhinvali.'

what is UNSOT? Where are their records?

"Russian intelligence has confirmed that the murder batallions commenced the journey to the outskirts of Tskhinvali, early on the evening of Aug. 7. The ethnic-cleansing barrage (half of Tskhinvali residents were cleansed) commenced at 11:30 PM. At midnight, Georgian state TV broadcast film of rocket attacks, ordered by Saakashvili."

whats an ethnic cleansing barrage? How does a barrage determine the ethnicity of those killed? This is again an attempt to take the word ethnic cleansing which meant actually taking individuals based on their ethnicity and shooting them, and then sending their frightened relatives out of the country on trains, and using it to mean whatever Moscow wants it to mean.

'Russian troops have captured the entire scope of US and Israeli high tech weaponry. "

I very much doubt that.

"US advisors will soon be put in the position of having to admit to being ordered to commit war crimes."

In your dreams.

"Russian blogs are reporting that intelligence, sufficiently damaging to destroy the McCain presidency, and cause his arrest under US Code 50, is being withheld pending completion of the Republican Convention."

and republican blogs say Hillary has a huge secret about Obama. I dont believe either.

"So much for your tangled weave of lies. Hope you like Obama; he seems to be a decent man."

As evidenced by his denunciation of Russian aggression, and esp by his choice of Biden who has already listed steps to take to counter Russia.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-26 17:28|| 2008-08-26 17:28|| Front Page Top

#16 The New York Times umbrella corporation July revenue dropped by 10% today, it was announced, continuing a several year downward trend. link (Hattip DrudgeReport) It doesn't really matter what the American media report any more, Mr. Half-Whits, because the American people neither believe in their veracity, nor pay any attention to their reportage. Rather, Americans get their news from blogs like this one -- for those who are interested -- or late night television like The Tonight Show and The Daily Show -- for those who are not. In 2004 and by appearances in this election the American media haven't even been able to deliver the historical 15% increase in votes for their favoured candidate; At this point in the campaign Kerry/Edwards were leading Bush/Cheney by 15% in the polls, if I recall correctly, whereas today Obama/Biden are behind by two percentage points amongst registered voters, within the statistical variability of the poll. link However, Republicans are more likely to actually vote than Democrats, and somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 of Clinton Democrats respond to pollsters that they will vote for McCain rather than Obama in November. Some of that last may be pique, but if even 20% of Clinton Democrats vote for McCain, that likely will be enough to put him over in the battleground states.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 17:38|| 2008-08-26 17:38|| Front Page Top

#17 Our illustrious Half-Wit posts from the beautiful city of Victoria B.C.

Yes, yet another... Canadian. Or maybe one of the same pests. Or maybe a tag team.

Posted by Pappy 2008-08-26 17:40|| 2008-08-26 17:40|| Front Page Top

#18 PIMF!! Please pretend I properly typed in that bit of HTML code that closes a link right after the word "link" in line two. :-(

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 17:43|| 2008-08-26 17:43|| Front Page Top

#19 Hey, Pappy, do you have da twit's IP? Mybe I could forward it to CSIS. I mean, the dudes working there twiddle heir thumbs, so, eh, a snack going their way would be probably appreciated. ;-)

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 18:03|| 2008-08-26 18:03|| Front Page Top

#20 It's a BC government IP - 142.30.203.65.

Posted by Fred 2008-08-26 18:09|| 2008-08-26 18:09|| Front Page Top

#21 Fixed, tw.

Posted by Pappy 2008-08-26 18:14|| 2008-08-26 18:14|| Front Page Top

#22 Conflict with Russia cost us $2.3bn: Mikheil Saakashvili

No, actually it'll cost you your independence.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-08-26 18:41|| 2008-08-26 18:41|| Front Page Top

#23 I see, so he is using a BC government dime to post twittery. Hmmm. Maybe he doesn't like his job? ;-)

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 18:45|| 2008-08-26 18:45|| Front Page Top

#24 John Zimmermann
British Columbia Ministry Information Security Officer
Telephone: 250 356-7121 Organization Code: AG

Alternate Phone: Not Available Organization Unit: ISPA - Information Security Planning & Analysis

Facsimile: 250 356-7699 Email: John.Zimmermann@gov.bc.ca

Physical
Address: 4th Fl
910 Government Street
Victoria BC
V8W1X3
CANADA Mailing Address: PO BOX 9262
Stn Prov Govt
Victoria BC
V8W9J4
CANADA

Posted by Besoeker 2008-08-26 18:57|| 2008-08-26 18:57|| Front Page Top

#25 g(r)omgoru, that is a funny way to put it. If he had no conflict with Kremlin, it would be likely because there would be no independence. Can Kremlin overrun Georgia, which would result in a loss of independence? Yes. But remember, Georgians went through all sorts of invaders, and they are still there, after several millenia. Ultimately, it may be Kremlin's Thugocracy that would pay much heavier price.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 18:59|| 2008-08-26 18:59|| Front Page Top

#26 See you around campus Half-Wit.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-08-26 18:59|| 2008-08-26 18:59|| Front Page Top

#27 It's never wise to seriously annoy certain Rantburgers, or even pique their curiosity too much -- they play for keeps. Not me of course. I haven't the imagination, nor the mad skillz. But some of you others...

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-26 19:14|| 2008-08-26 19:14|| Front Page Top

#28 It appears to me that if Fred could selectively block BC IPs, then the average IQ around here would rise significantly.

Posted by Darrell 2008-08-26 19:22|| 2008-08-26 19:22|| Front Page Top

#29 You'd think an Information Security Officer would know better.

Posted by Gabby Cussworth 2008-08-26 19:36|| 2008-08-26 19:36|| Front Page Top

#30 Darrell, twits are everywhere. And vice versa, there are no clear demarcation lines. In any case, it may be useful to know where they are.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 19:43|| 2008-08-26 19:43|| Front Page Top

#31 You'd think an Information Security Officer would know better.

Not if it is some part-time filer they hired and the loser is using a government computer.

Posted by DarthVader 2008-08-26 19:44|| 2008-08-26 19:44|| Front Page Top

#32 Gabby, that may be just an office shared IP. It would be a bit presumpteous to equate the assigned IP holder with the actual twit.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-26 19:46|| 2008-08-26 19:46|| Front Page Top

#33 I imagine Besoeker shared that contact information in case Fred wanted to report our troll to Mr. Zimmerman, whose job quite possibly includes policing such activities.

Posted by lotp 2008-08-26 20:27|| 2008-08-26 20:27|| Front Page Top

#34 Quite right.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-08-26 20:33|| 2008-08-26 20:33|| Front Page Top

#35 a competent IP guy could verify who, when, where, and follow through. We'll see how Mr. Zimmermann (or his replacement) does. (Just in case you actually follow up prior to your firing, John?). I might've just emailed the local media and your higher-ups...might be wise to clean house before the media gets on it?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-08-26 21:10|| 2008-08-26 21:10|| Front Page Top

#36 So more semi-spoofing, it would seem.

Posted by Gabby Cussworth 2008-08-26 21:12|| 2008-08-26 21:12|| Front Page Top

#37 Enough already!

Posted by Troll Watch 2008-08-26 22:57|| 2008-08-26 22:57|| Front Page Top

#38 HUSH!
They'll hear you. We have to keep talking until daylight, then they turn to STONE!

Posted by Gabby Cussworth 2008-08-26 23:38|| 2008-08-26 23:38|| Front Page Top

23:57 Maggie Thromomble8551
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23:32 Spike Uniter
23:30 Pappy
23:23 European Conservative
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22:57 Troll Watch
22:57 Spike Uniter
22:53 Mark Espinola
22:41 Pappy
22:32 DMFD
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