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2008-07-11 Olde Tyme Religion

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Posted by Fred 2008-07-11 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 Welcome back Rev., though you might be a bit surprised by a some of the changes we've made over the last 400+ years.

Posted by JAB 2008-07-11 01:30|| 2008-07-11 01:30|| Front Page Top

#2 I am curious, as a Catholic, I've never really researched it. But what is the biblical reference for not allowing women into the priesthood? Anyone?

Posted by AllahHateMe 2008-07-11 12:23|| 2008-07-11 12:23|| Front Page Top

#3 I hope no CoE members Bash the Bishop.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-07-11 12:29|| 2008-07-11 12:29|| Front Page Top

#4 The issue is twofold - first some say jesus was bound by the prejudices of His society that he was in, and would have appointed females if he could have gotten away with it. Teh second follows.

First off, Jesus had ample opportunity to appoint women as disciples - and he was definitely not bound by the cultural norms of his day. Eating with tax collectors, healing lepers, praising a Samaritan in a parable, etc. He was not inhibited by cultural norms of his society if they were in the way of working God's will.

Now to the case of women:

Women are constantly in His company, on one occasion even privately-to the surprise of His returning disciples (John 4:27). He heals them, ignoring if necessary the ritual purity laws (Mk 5:25-34) and the inhibition against touching women (Mt 8:14-15). The story of Martha and Mary shows that the Gospel is for women, too, and that there is no separate or distinct teaching for them. When He teaches, His parables contain examples from women's lives (Lk 13:16); and in the end, at the great climax of the Christian story, as the male authors of John (Jn 20:11-18) and Matthew (Mt 28:1-10) record, it is to women that Jesus first appears after His Resurrection: they are the first witnesses (a role given them by Jesus, which they would have been denied in a Jewish court).

He even challenged the chauvinism in Jewish law that allowed men to divorce their wives. He does not hesitate to depart from the Mosaic law in order to affirm the equality of the rights of men and women with regard to the marriage bond (Mk 10:2-11; Mt 19:3-9).

Note there is no sexual connotation to these events either. Rather there is a deep contrast to his actions and those allowed him by his society. Jesus, as the Divine physician, either healed or evangelized women on a public street as with the Samaritan woman, and those acts were considered "blasphemous" according to the customs of that era.

Jesus clearly called only 12 men to be His apostles. Judas abandoned his call; when he was replaced, as described in Acts 1, it is interesting to note that no women were considered for his position, even though there were many women who would have fit the bill as faithful followers. Instead, Matthias was chosen.

One aspect of this issue that mustn't be overlooked is the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary was not chosen to receive either the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood. As Christ is the New Adam, the Blessed Virgin Mary has, as one of her many titles, the distinguished title of the "New Eve." She is a sinless creature, "full of grace" (Lk 1:28-31), who certainly was more qualified to be a priest than any man in the history of the world. However, Jesus came to fulfill the will of the Father, and this certainly did not include given priestly faculties to women, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, His very own mother!

So that eliminates the issue of society and choice - Christ deliberately selected men and there were ample opportunities for Him to do otherwise. So that sets forth a huge Tradition (and is documented well in the Catechism), along with the other sacraments, that we follow even today in the Catholic Church.

The second line of rerasoning is that most who advocate women priesthood see the priest as a leader, and a position of power and guidance, and that those are the primary function of the preisthood. If this were the case, a credible and powerful argument coudl be made for women as priests.

Unfortunately, that is a demonstrably wrong functional view of the priesthood in the Catholic Church and its nearly 2000 years of tradition.

The priest has a special charism, and a primary function that differs greatly form the description above - the description above are ancillary. not primary functions of an ordained Catholic priest.

The primary function for the Priest is to be a direct representative of God, configured to God the Father and Son, and attended by the Holy Spirit.

Christ is the Bridegroom and His Church is His Bride, and only a validly ordained man can truly represent Christ the Bridegroom. Not even can any man assume this symbol and relationship. Only those chosen by the Church and ordained through apostolic succession. In the New Testament, we know that Christ is called the Bridegroom for His union with His Church is compared to the union between a man and a woman (Mt 9:15, 25:1ff; Jn 3:29). This same comparison is foreshadowed in the Old Testament (Ps 45ff). Using Byzantine theology we learn that as Jesus is the icon (i.e., image) of God the Father, the priest is the perfect icon (image) of Jesus. When a priest is ordained, he is ontologically configured to Jesus. A priest represents the same Jesus Who through His Incarnation became man. Therefore, only a validly ordained man can truly represent Christ the God-man. It is physically impossible for a woman to become a priest as it is physically impossible for a man to become a nun!

In saying, "This is My Body...This is My Blood..." the priest cannot integrally be a woman...a woman is not a credible representative of Adam, the man, the one who finalized original sin and from whose finality the New Adam, as a priest on the Cross, liberated us. He did so according to the order of Melchizedek, the ancient priest (Gen 14:18) who prefigured Jesus offering His Body and Blood under the appearance of bread and wine. This prefiguring indicates that a special resemblance is essential to the sacramental character of the priesthood. The figure, or sign, is not a coating that can be removed and replaced by a woman.

And remember - in Catholic Theology, the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints. Charity and personal holiness are key essentials for entrance into the kingdom of God. Catholic women such as Eternal Word Television Network founder Mother Angelica, Fatima's Sister Lucia, and the late Mother Teresa exemplified and continue to exemplify this fact quite well, as do a multitude of women who were Saints. The ministerial priesthood is not a prerequisite for entrance into Heaven, and it is not uncommon for special graces that Saints exhibit to occur far outside the priesthood.

It all comes down to holy Catholic Tradition to reserve the Priesthood to men as Christ did, not "traditionalism" to deny women status arbitrarily.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-07-11 13:58|| 2008-07-11 13:58|| Front Page Top

#5 The primary function for the Priest is to be a direct representative of God, configured to God the Father and Son, and attended by the Holy Spirit.

And the fact that so many have departed so wildly from the above is a source of shame and disgrace to the current Catholic Church, be they the pedophile predators who used the priesthood as a tool to prey on the innocent, or be they that nutbag hate monger racist Obama backer in Chicago.

But these are very notable exceptions to the above - and thank God, they are few and far between, with the vast majority of priests adhering to the description as given.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-07-11 14:05|| 2008-07-11 14:05|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm wandering a bit, but since reading Pope Benedict XVI's Regensburg Address, I've thought that John Chapter 2 makes a sublime argument in favor of a rational God (Fourth Commandment).

Posted by mrp 2008-07-11 15:19|| 2008-07-11 15:19|| Front Page Top

#7 The Catholic Church has been fortunate to have 2 exceptional scholars back to back in John Paul II, and Benedict XVI. I love John Paul the Great, but he was not as active as he should have been in the last 3-5 years of his papacy, mainly due to illness. Thats why the pedophiel stuff and lefty bishops went as fas as they did. Benedict is correcting, slowly and gently, the excesses, all while standing for Reason and Faith against the Muslims and Secularists.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-07-11 16:59|| 2008-07-11 16:59|| Front Page Top

#8 I would like to note that the Anglicans are very close to the Catholics, so much so that they have been in reunification talks for many years. They have agreed to share clergy if necessary, and Anglican priests can readily switch to Catholicism if they are not married.

Unlike other Protestant religions, Papal supremacy is not a huge issue between the two, and the conservative Anglicans share core values with traditional Catholics.

With this schism, the attraction is so great that the conservative Anglicans will be inclined to stay a separate church more than not just to be one in the eye to the liberals. But once that is resolved, they will probably have a slow reunification.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-07-11 21:03|| 2008-07-11 21:03|| Front Page Top

#9 Actually, married Anglican priests can convert AND remain married and still be priests, so long as the marriage is their one and only, and they agree to "remain chaste within their station" (i.e. if their wife dies before they do, they will be celibate).

That's where the few married priests in the US Roman Catholic Church come from. There and Eastern Orthodox (who are allowed to marry prior to ordination).

I beleive that eventually the RCC will roll back the prohibition adopted long ago (due to sexual improprities, oddly enough - things liek a pope's son). Probably allow married permanent deacons after 7 years to assume the full priesthood, but limit them to being parish priests, and will not elevate them to the rank of Bishop - that being reserved for those who are married to the Church.

Certainly will be interesting, and might cut down a lot of the gay/pedophiles being able to operate inside the church.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-07-11 23:01|| 2008-07-11 23:01|| Front Page Top

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