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2006-05-14 Home Front: WoT

'Uppity military' slapped around in CIA uproar

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Posted by ryuge 2006-05-14 09:20|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It's true, I keep hearing a bad idea to have a military guy, but nobody says EXACTLY why, just some subtle references that's it's a CILIVIAN agency. Well DUH, but it's mainly an Intelligence agency too and the President likes him!

Posted by Creating Elmineger9348 2006-05-14 09:36|| 2006-05-14 09:36|| Front Page Top

#2 Even an outsider can look at the CIA and understand the problems: . . . the dominant agency culture of whining, second-guessing and world-class leaking needs to be expunged.

. . . But coming up on five years after 9-11, the agency needs either a transformation guru like Hayden or else a Marine drill sergeant, if that's what it takes..

No truer words have EVER been written. "culture of whining, second-guessing and world-class leaking". THis is what drove so many good ops people and analysts out in the 90's.

And the dumb bastards like Leahy want to keep it that way.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-14 10:48|| 2006-05-14 10:48|| Front Page Top

#3 Transformation is always an extreemly painful event. Those old cold warriors were the ones that kept us safe as kids from the Soviets, we should not forget that and recognise them for it. Times do change and those old dogs should have been moved on in the 90's. Times are different and a different warrior is needed, I only wish the old dogs had the honor to recognise it and move on themselves.

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-05-14 11:21|| 2006-05-14 11:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Some of us did Pan49 - we moved because we saw the change in the trheat and those that didnt, didnt want us around "stirring up trouble", and being politically incorrect. It was easy to get called a bigot when you started saying things about fundamentalist islamists, wahabbists and the like being the source of incited terror, or agreeing with those that did. And even worse start sayign we should do something even if it doesnt mean go-along get-along anymore with the Powers That Be, even if there is risk that a Cover-Your-Ass bureacrat cannot accept.

The Bureacrats and Poilitcal Correctness Police won those battles. The first put in the "I dont care its not an acceptable risk tothis department or my job", and the second made certain was of thinking forbidden. They put blinders and blindfolds on us. We have the Cole, Khobar, etc and 9-11 as a result.

And these are the people leaking for political gain, to sabotage reform at the cost of national security. They are the ones Hayden will get rid of. And thats why they are screaming so loud no via thier mouthpieces in the ignorant press and tools/fools in Congress.

Yes I am angry.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-14 11:36|| 2006-05-14 11:36|| Front Page Top

#5 OS: Do you think Hayden can fix it? Institutional change is extreemly difficult, and usually the guy that brings the change is drummed out. Only to be seen as the father of the new organization later in history. If he does change it I see this as his likely course of action and he must see it comming making im a true patriot.

This agency I see is as critical, if not more than our military, and you know I'm 26 year activ Army. We saw the terrorists comming in the Army as well and were charged with looking for a war in order to be relevant. Fortunately we had Rumsfelt to push the old dogs out and bring in the right generals.

I wish Hayden the best. He will certainly pay for it.

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-05-14 11:54|| 2006-05-14 11:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Wasn't the CIA started by military people to begin with?

Posted by Phil 2006-05-14 12:17|| 2006-05-14 12:17|| Front Page Top

#7 CIA was started by OSS military back some 60 years ago. But has long since morphed into somehting else.

And yes, I hope Hayden can do the things he needs to. But I doubt he wil be able to do them because the structure of the CIA is monolithic - each part buttresses the other in terms of Bureaucrats and risk-averse CYA types. I think to be truly effective it will need to be broken up, withat least covert ops, analaysis and humint development all in thier own agency, the rest can be left as a husk. Unlike the Cold War, Covert action, HUMINT and Analyisis should no longer hold to an interdependant unified worlview and interlocking tasking - they need to be independent of each other and able to task each other without political influence and entanglement over how each other does the job.

The problem is that the CIA was structured for a monolithic target (Soviet Union) and a monolithic opponent (KGB/GRU). It is no more capable of responding to today's challenges than the Big Division Slow Tank military of the 1970's would be up to the challenges in the inital battle for Irq or the current fighting in Afghanistan. The Army changed. The CIA hasn't. The military is effective, the CIA isnt. There it is in a nutshell.

Thats why I and others went back to the military side of things when we left the "big leagues" of the IC's various agencies. The military at least tolerated a bit of *intelligent* dissent, especially from the civilians, and even moreso on the SOCOM side of things - just few jobs were there until after Rummy took over.

Im now just another "contractor" (and semi-retired at that), but one thats been there done that and got the wings to prove it. I just hope that Gen Hayden can swing the axe freely and cut the place into the chunks it needs to be cut into.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-14 12:33|| 2006-05-14 12:33|| Front Page Top

#8 There have been very interesting comments on the Cia since a few days, thanks. OT : CYA = "cover your a..", am I right?

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-05-14 12:35|| 2006-05-14 12:35|| Front Page Top

#9 Thanks OS for the insight

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-05-14 12:58|| 2006-05-14 12:58|| Front Page Top

#10 OS - right on! I spent 26 years in the Air Force in imint. I did well in Europe, but poorly in the States. The reason wasn't my ability or training, but the difference in perspective. In Europe, we worked to ensure we'd be ready to deal with an attack across the Iron Curtain. The folks in Omaha were always targeting the old Soviet Union, and nothing else had any validity. Tac Recce was considered a playground - nothing done was ever done because it HAD to be done, but to satisfy a box on the checklist, then back to goofing off and having fun.

We have multiple enemies today, ranging from a resurging Russia, an arrogant China, incipient trouble caused by islamonazis, dictators in Africa and Latin America, and an aging Europe that wants to ignore every problem so they can go on enjoying their decaying worldview. We need agencies, ranging from the military to the intelligence community to State, that need to understand the world as it is, instead of how they wish it were. If General Hayden can get that across to the bureaucrats at the CIA, then he should be our next Sec/State as well!

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2006-05-14 15:55|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2006-05-14 15:55|| Front Page Top

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