Article

2005-03-19 Europe

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Posted by Fred 2005-03-19 00:00:00 AM|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Perhaps the EU is moving to replace democracy with something Europeans are more comfortable with, a noble class. Not really a return to monarchy, but a heriditary nobility similar to what ruled much of Europe for 1500 or more years. A lot of Europeans are just uncomfortable with the idea of democracy. It is too chaotic, too unpredicatable and prone to radicalism for their tastes. They think it's just better for someone like Chirac to be a prince, rather than for him to be distracted by elections and the dirt of politics. Chirac would most certainly think so.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-03-19 9:57:34 AM|| 2005-03-19 9:57:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I read a book, probably 30 years ago, when I was working on my bachelor's degree, that went in detail into the distinction between the "nobility" and the overlapping "aristocracy." As I recall, the gist of it was that the nobility were the guys with the swords and horses who started the great houses of Europe, and the aristocracy were the guys with the perfumed hankies and periwigs that their descendants eventually became.

I think I'd call the present EUrocrats an aristocracy.

Posted by Fred 2005-03-19 12:36:19 PM|| 2005-03-19 12:36:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Do you think Aris may have a perfumed hankie (I doubt the wig part). Maybe he has a big future as Aristocrat Aris, even without a hankie.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-03-19 1:50:01 PM|| 2005-03-19 1:50:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 lol, pretentions only. Fred - good analogy as the EUcrats are not the creators of wealth and technology, just the choke knot that will strangle it. IMHO, of course

Posted by Frank G 2005-03-19 2:02:34 PM|| 2005-03-19 2:02:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Hey! I've had perfumed hankies!

Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-19 4:04:24 PM|| 2005-03-19 4:04:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I, on the other hand, have not had. Nor a wig.

I could wonder about your attributes and possessions, Sobiesky, but Patience suggests I'll keep such wonderings to myself.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-19 5:07:22 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-19 5:07:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 The reason Europeans fear democracy can be seen in the post "More on the Rising Popularity of Hitler in Europe". The people at the top believe in top down. The people at the bottom believe in top down. Everybody else came to America.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-19 6:02:53 PM|| 2005-03-19 6:02:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 The people at the top believe in top down. The people at the bottom believe in top down.

Another cliche not in evidence about the difference between Europe and America. It's Americans that I've seen arguing that little details like going to war should not be decided by the people but by their leaders.

Example: People here knew far before 3/11 that most of Spain's people opposed the presence of Spanish troops in Iraq. Yet you still objected to the election of a leadership that'd actually obey the people's will on the issue.

I on the other felt that only countries whose people supported the war should send troops there -- such countries were only United States and UK AFAIK. So, among the two of us, who's the believer in top down and who's the one in bottom-up?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-19 9:32:33 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-19 9:32:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Your lack of support is acknowledged

Posted by Frank G 2005-03-19 9:47:31 PM|| 2005-03-19 9:47:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Aris,just a pre-emptory summary in the case you would get ideas and start wondering...

My posessions are truly minimalistic. I moved from one place to another a lot, often with just a shirt on my back. I don't even have a hankie, perfumed or not. Box of kleenex, yes.

Attributes... I am so thoroughly average that it is not even funny. Being a minimalist, I probably don't have any attributes, whatsoever.

Back to topic. I am believer in bottom-up. Na zdorovye!

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-03-19 9:47:50 PM|| 2005-03-19 9:47:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#11

Posted by FlameBait 2005-03-19 9:50:57 PM|| [http://www.waldosworkshops.com] 2005-03-19 9:50:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 So, among the two of us, who's the believer in top down and who's the one in bottom-up?

Keep that in mind, come foreign-aid time.

Posted by Pappy 2005-03-19 9:55:38 PM|| 2005-03-19 9:55:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 FlameBait, is it already adopted or pending?

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-03-19 9:57:43 PM|| 2005-03-19 9:57:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Well my ~~canuck~~ soon to be U.S. resident friend.
Take your pick

Posted by FlameBait 2005-03-19 10:32:41 PM|| [http://www.waldosworkshops.com] 2005-03-19 10:32:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Almost as cute as those flags of America with swastikas instead of stars.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-19 10:35:07 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-19 10:35:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 ouch! Touched a tender spot....where's the tolerance and love?

Posted by Frank G 2005-03-19 10:36:32 PM|| 2005-03-19 10:36:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I don't believe I've ever claimed some qualities in me towards your persons.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-19 10:44:13 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-19 10:44:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 *such* qualities

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-03-19 10:46:54 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-03-19 10:46:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Heh, Sobiesky, you know which button to press, don't you? :)

Posted by SwissTex 2005-03-19 10:52:47 PM|| 2005-03-19 10:52:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Yeah, don't try this at home, kids. The routine being performed here is for professionals only.

Posted by .com 2005-03-19 10:59:28 PM|| 2005-03-19 10:59:28 PM|| Front Page Top

12:02 Crerert Ebbeting3481
12:02 Crerert Ebbeting3481
23:58 Fleetlord Atvar
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23:46 Jonathan
23:26 Grunter
23:06 Bobby
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22:59 .com
22:56 Sock Puppet 0â Doom
22:52 SwissTex
22:49 Bobby
22:46 Aris Katsaris
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22:44 Aris Katsaris
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22:36 Frank G
22:35 Aris Katsaris
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22:32 FlameBait
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22:19 Frank G
22:05 Sobiesky
22:04 Ptah