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2005-03-09 Terror Networks & Islam
Top ten reasons why Islam is not the religion of peace
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Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-09 10:53:52 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 An excellent article, Mrs. Davis. Thank you!

"Islam" properly translates as "submission", not "peace". Jesus practiced and preached love; Muhammad practiced violence and preached submission.
Posted by Tom 2005-03-09 11:12:17 AM||   2005-03-09 11:12:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 10. Muhammad nicknames his weapons.

Muhammad nicknames three swords that he took from the Jewish tribe Qaynuqa after he banished them from Medina in April 624: “Pluck Out,” “Very Sharp,” and “Death.” ...
After his..., immigration to Mecca he owned two swords called “Sharp” and “Having the vertebrae of the back.”


Name 10 swords/daggers from the works of Tolkien:
1. Anduril
2. Narsil
3. Sting
4. Aeglos (gil galad's spear, does it count?)
5. Anglachel (iron flame, sword forged by Eol)
6. Glamdring (the sword of gandalf)
7.Orcrist (Sword of thorin)
8. Angrist (knife made by Telchar of Nogrod)
9. Anguirel (Sword forged by Eol, Anglachel's mate)
10.Aranrúth (sword of Elwe of Doriath)


Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 11:26:57 AM||   2005-03-09 11:26:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Source of the above :
Sword Names


Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 11:48:27 AM||   2005-03-09 11:48:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 BigEd, you forgot Ringul. Fegolfin's (sorry abt spelling - dont have my books w/me) sword with which he stabbed Morgoth 7 times during their duel. Also Anduril and Narsil are the same sword - Anduril is Narsil reforged.

I gotta get out more..... :)
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-03-09 11:50:19 AM||   2005-03-09 11:50:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 CF thanks- I got the info from a Tolkien Blog website. Tolkien was up to his ears in Dark Ages mythos, even Islamic, and was probably aware of all of this stuff, even though named swords in history include Excalibur of "The" King Arthur (c475-c542) which pre-dates Mohammed by 100+ years.

8. Muhammad in his Quran permits husbands to beat their wives.
and
3. Muhammad in his Quran promises sensuous Gardens for martyrs dying in a military holy war.
This is bound together in Mrs.D's piece by one left out from Qu'ran 2:223, Dawood Trans

"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please."

I am no scholar, I just now found this via Googling on the subject..."Quran Beat wives"

I guess to avoid overharvesting...that's why they wear black tents in Saudi, and the Talibanishitz did the blue tent thing in Afghanistan. Of course that can produce odd fantasies, which is probably quite unhealthy...causes people to get excited about vaporizing one's self by flying airplanes into buildings, "Allah Akhbar, baby...I like my virgins blonde..."
Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 12:11:29 PM||   2005-03-09 12:11:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Verifiable? The readers are invited to look up each verse in the Quran in multiple translations

these are not all from the Quran

some (like naming the swords) are from Hadiths or other texts
Posted by mhw 2005-03-09 12:32:55 PM||   2005-03-09 12:32:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I call my 45 ACP my "45" and my 54cal. 1862 Maynard Carbine "Maynard".
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 12:33:16 PM||   2005-03-09 12:33:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 You are totally wrong. This is not the way you are exposing. Islam is the relegion of peace.
Posted by Ahmed  2005-03-09 12:44:42 PM||   2005-03-09 12:44:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Yeah.. the peace of the grave...... (at least for Infidels).
Posted by CrazyFool  2005-03-09 12:53:54 PM||   2005-03-09 12:53:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Ahmed, why don't you back that up with a few well-known, unambiguous quotes from the Quran? Especially as regards non-Muslims, women, and anything on "peace" itself. We'll be waiting.
Posted by Tom 2005-03-09 12:59:32 PM||   2005-03-09 12:59:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 C'mon, Ahmed. Give some evidence.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2005-03-09 1:07:44 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-03-09 1:07:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I can't quote from the Quran, but Christians believe we should live the example of Christ, yes? In the short time I was in Morocco, some of the best Christians I ever met were Muslim. Despite Christ's teachings of love, some devout religious folks have acted not-so-lovingly to others (think the crusades). Then there's the David Koresh's of the world.... (Waco?Janet Reno?)

More recently, I have worked with Muslims and asked several questions of several of them. They didn't consider me an infidel and were not interested in converting me to Islam, just as many Christians are not interested in evangelizing others. Maybe I'm dumb and/or they were all clever liars.

The problem is not with the religion, IMHO, but the teaching of hate of people-not-like-us. I have no use for those trying to destroy us, but I believe there are a great many out there who only wish to live their lives in peace.

There. So ban me from Rantburg.
Posted by Bobby 2005-03-09 2:52:58 PM||   2005-03-09 2:52:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Bobby, the problem IS with the religion. I have met many Muslims as well and they were very friendly. I think most would be this way, however, if their Imam tells them they will not get into heaven if they don't obey the Imam's edicts they will do what the Imam says. I have found many who follow their Christian preachers teachings to the letter as well. It is my personal belief that "Christianity" today does not resemble what the Jewish Proffet Yeshua taught. Any group can take a "religion" and twist it around but Islam started out twisted.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 3:09:24 PM||   2005-03-09 3:09:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 bobby & deacon blues,

add me to the list of people who work with, live nearby, etc. muslims

It so happens that, in the US, criminology types believe (based on a variety of data sources) that muslims are arrested, indicted and convicted less often (as a percent of population) than almost any other ethnic group.

However, as Ibn Warraq says, there are many muslims who are good people; however, that is because they are not good muslims.

As authoritative translations of the Quran have become more available, this has had two important effects:
- kafr and muslim alike can see that violent islam is more authentic than peaceful islam
- when muslims realize this, some peaceful muslims get violent; others leave islam
- when kafr realize this, some spin webs of self deceipt; others come to grips with it

However,
Posted by mhw 2005-03-09 3:24:52 PM||   2005-03-09 3:24:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Deacon, Interesting comment. How does Chirstianity today diverge from what Yeshua taught?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-09 3:31:35 PM||   2005-03-09 3:31:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Yah, BIg Mo got power in Arabia by fighting with various and sundry folks in and around Medina, and the quran reflects that, by making a big deal out of force in certain instances. Which you can either A. Declare to be literally relevant in his time only, and allegorize for later times (the choice of moderate liberal muslims) or B. Make it something done at the convenience of rulers only, hence boiling down to little more than permission for realpolitik (what Islam ACTUALLY did with the doctrine from Big Mos death till at least the end of the Ottoman Empire) or C. Decide it really means you should have an ongoing war against Christians and Jews - basically the pet interpretation of the Salafi-Jihadists - going against Muslim practice of almost 1200 years, an occasional Jihadi loony aside.

Kinda like how most Jews think the injunction to enter the holy land and wipe out or enslave the inhabitants was something specific to that time, and nothing to do with policy of modern Israel, but a handful of Kahanist loonies disagree.

a helluva lot more salafi-jihadis than Kahanists, but still no reason to tar the entire religion.

And id be damned angry with ANY non-Jew who had the nerve to tell ME that Kahanism is more authentic than the Judaism I practice. Look, if you dont accept the truth of Judaism, HOW can you say one or the other is more Authentic? Ditto for Islam?

Why would you attempt to gauge the truth of Judaism by looking at its texts devoid of the normative commentary? To do so is to DENY the truth of all traditional Judaism, which affirms the semi-cannonical quality of the traditional commentaries, legal decisions, etc. My understanding is the same holds true for both mainstream Sunni and Shia Islam.

Now there IS a religion that insists its original ancient holy texts be interpreted "literally" and without tradition. That religion is Christianity, more specifically Protestant Christianity. "The Bible Alone" IIUC. It does NOT make sense to look at non-Christian religions through that lens. Whether it even makes sense to look at Christianity through that lens, I will leave it to my Catholic friends to debate with the Protestants.
Posted by liberalhawk 2005-03-09 3:52:47 PM||   2005-03-09 3:52:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 BigEd> Also "Dagmor", Beren's sword... Quoting from memory:
tales they would tell of Beren's bow / of Dagmor, his sword, how he would go / silent to camps and slay the chief / or trapped in his hiding past belief / would slip away and in the night / with moon or star or the open light / of day he would return again / of hunters hunted, slayers slain / of Gorgol the Butcher hewn / of war in Ladros, fire in Drun / of thirty in one battle dead / of wolves that yelped like cubs and fled / yeah, Sauron himself with wound in hand! / Thus one alone filled all the land / with fear and death for Morgoth's folk...
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2005-03-09 4:08:57 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/]  2005-03-09 4:08:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#18  "The Bible Alone"

You are referring to one of the rallying cries of the Reformation, Sola Scriptura.

Take a look at equip.org (the website of the Christian Research Institute) for more information.
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 4:17:03 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 4:17:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Liberalhawk,

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. That Protestant Christians can be equated with Jihadis?

That the devious "love thy enemy..." can be equated or deemed worse than "kill infidels wherever ye find them..."?

The smell of moral relativism is overwhelming.
Go to www.faithfreedon.org to get a bit of perspective.
Posted by twobyfour 2005-03-09 4:21:12 PM||   2005-03-09 4:21:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 2x4, I think what libewralhawk is referring to is, and I come from a Protestant tradition, that "the only way to heaven is but through Jesus..."

As I have said in the past, that is one of the reasons I am not a regular church attender. To me one's position in the afterlife depends on how one lives their life not how they follow certain biblical passages multi-re-translated 100 times.

It is what Jesus told us about living our lives that is important. Too often some well meaning but overanxious clergy lose Jesus' message, and get bogged down on Jesus' personae.

But all that said, in the 21st century, 99.99% of Protestant clergy would never incite, promote violence, or act against a non-believer unless, as many of the Islamofacist Moslems have done, physically threaten and attacked someone innocent solely because they don't accept Islamic belief... This would be simple self-defence. And that's what seperates Fundamentalist Protestantism from Islamofacism.
Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 4:35:55 PM||   2005-03-09 4:35:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 one's position in the afterlife depends on how one lives their life not how they follow certain biblical passages multi-re-translated 100 times

Do Muslims believe the same? (That is: if you don't do things perfectly in this life, you won't stand much chance in the next?) An honest question, since I don't know the answer. It would make sense given the devout Muslim's many daily rituals.
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 4:57:31 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 4:57:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Do Muslims believe the same?
(That is: if you don't do things perfectly in this life, you won't stand much chance in the next?)

Based on the equivocation of most of the Imams since 9/11, I think probably so.

Only in the case of Islam, a natural extension of this beleif is advocacy of violent conversions, in response to resistance to an offer of conversion by the clergy.

One does not see that with the Fundamentalist Protestantism. They just seem to feel sorry for you that you don't see the would the way they do.
Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 5:28:56 PM||   2005-03-09 5:28:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Nah, we don't feel sorry for you.
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 5:57:13 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 5:57:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Well, soo... tell us how you feel, eLarson. ;-)
Posted by Sobiesky 2005-03-09 5:59:16 PM||   2005-03-09 5:59:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 I think I left it dangling. What I meant was: We don't feel sorry for you because you have a different world view.

Sorry. I read that again after I committed it and it sounded all wrong. :)
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 6:00:58 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 6:00:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 No offense taken...
You and I are on the same side of issues more often than not anyway...
Posted by BigEd 2005-03-09 6:03:06 PM||   2005-03-09 6:03:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Cool, cool. I especially didn't want you to think that I pitied you, since I, like Mr. T, only pity fools. :)
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 6:06:32 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 6:06:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Muhammad nicknames his tool...Jr.
Posted by Johnson 2005-03-09 6:19:44 PM||   2005-03-09 6:19:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 eLarson

With respect to Moslems going to heaven and hell, there is a rich literature.

The Quran itself has many verses describing hell and many describing heaven. As you might expect, the descriptions have contradictions in them (sometimes there is ice cold water in hell, sometimes its all heat). The Quran also describes Allah's attitude on salvation. Basically, Allah's attitude is like St Augustine on steroids. Allah says he could save everyone if he wanted to, but, well I guess he just doesn't want to. There is very little in the Quran about what will guarantee heaven but a lot about what will doom you to hell. All the pagaens are going there. Once you get to the hadiths, its even nastier. Virtually all women are going to hell apparently.

and a good muslim will shake with fear and joy when hearing the Quran describe this stuff.
Posted by mhw 2005-03-09 7:57:18 PM||   2005-03-09 7:57:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Sounds a little like Divine Comedy/Paradise Lost or something. Mebbe I'll pick up a copy.

There, too, was a book advertised in my spam this week about the subject. It was written by a missionary to India (I think). It wouldn't be quite the same as delving into it myself, obviously.

Thx.
Posted by eLarson 2005-03-09 8:29:16 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2005-03-09 8:29:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 to #28 - go ahead, drop the other shoe... your full monicker is E. Normous Johnson. I've seen your posts in the a.b.m.e. group. Pretty good stuff, heh.
Posted by .com 2005-03-09 8:36:32 PM||   2005-03-09 8:36:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Mrs. Davis: I wish I could talk with you directly . A little background on me: I was raised Southern Baptist in South Central Alabama. My Father was an ordained minister. I was taught that to be a true Christian I had to believe in an absolute, literal, Baptist interpretation of the Bible. Jesus (Yeshua) said, "Belive on me and thou shalt be saved". He didn't say I had to follow every edict of the Baptist Church. I don't believe the Earth is only around 8,000 years old and I don't believe the Earth was created in only 6 days. I believe the ammount of time it took to create the Earth and everything in it is totally irrelevant to wheather or not I belive in God. I don't believe God created Man in a flash and a boom but maybe it took millions of years. There again, how God created mankind is irrelevant. When I asked where Adam and Eve's son's got their wives I was told God provided them. That makes me believe God created more than one man and one woman. I'm told by the hierarchy that I am not a true Christian because I question these things. I think Jesus would be as angry with modern religious leaders as he was with his contemperaries. I hear religious leaders condem "sinners" ie, homosexuals etc,and blame mankind's troubles on them. Jesus condemned sinners but offered his compassion. A lot of religious leaders today do not. I posted a while back I actually heard a "preacher" in Columbus, Georgia in 1978 or 79 (I was at Benning) say "Thank God for AIDS. It will rid us of all these godless homosexuals". I realize this is not an opinion held by every religious person but it is held by quite a lot. I think Jesus would be apalled at this. This is also why I abhor Islam, Islam teaches killing and hate. Religion of Peace? BULLSHIT. Sorry about the long Rant, I needed to get some things off my chest.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 8:56:29 PM||   2005-03-09 8:56:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Deacon, I'll guarantee you that you didn't hear a "preacher" in Columbus, Georgia in 1978 or '79 say "Thank God for AIDS". Maybe '88 or '89, but not '78 or '79.
Posted by Tom 2005-03-09 9:20:56 PM||   2005-03-09 9:20:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 first publicized cases in 80's, DB
Posted by Frank G  2005-03-09 9:34:07 PM||   2005-03-09 9:34:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I was at Benning in 78-79. This was on television. I could be wrong but that's when I remember it. In 88, 89 I was back in Birmingham and out of the Military for 10 years. I don't think I did that many drugs but the memory does play tricks on us. The basic comment holds true, I don't much like these types of "Evangelists" any more than I like the Islamofacists. The difference between the two is the "Evlangelists" don't go around booming people.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 9:40:45 PM||   2005-03-09 9:40:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 IMNSHO Anyone who preaches that they have the one true way to reach God, heaven - doesn't. I'm a RC, but I also believe whatever religion (or not) you choose to follow, your life is saved by the good works you do and the way you treat others. More karma than Catholic, I guess. I also believe God has a sense of humor (probably self-rationalization/justification?)
Posted by Frank G  2005-03-09 9:47:30 PM||   2005-03-09 9:47:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Deacon - I agree with much/most of what you say in #32. Please make an effort to befriend a muslim sometime. Even if your interpretations of their teachings are correct, some of them turn out all right! Look for people that set a good example! I'm trying right now!
Posted by Bobby 2005-03-09 10:06:42 PM||   2005-03-09 10:06:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 DB. Glad to hear your thoughts. Hope it helped to get it off your chest.

You sort of threw me using Christianity instead of Christians. I sort of think Christianity still stands for what Yeshua said as best we know it, but Christians don't do such a good job of living it. Can't quarrel with that, knowing myself as I do.

Frank, our preacher spoke on Jesus' sense of humor last week. It was a pretty good sermon. And funny.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-03-09 10:16:03 PM||   2005-03-09 10:16:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Been there and done that Bobby. Try telling your muslims friends you are a Jew (whether true or not) and then sit back and see how fast they can screw you. And then remind yourself that the muslims in the US are the best, brightest, and most moderate.
Posted by Arkansas CSI 2005-03-09 10:22:47 PM||   2005-03-09 10:22:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Bobby, I do count Muslims among my friends. Frank G. you have to be right. The AIDS epidemic wasn't really identified until the '80s. Bobby,I have worked here in the 'States with Muslims who were very decent people. What worries me is, and this applies to more than one religion, what happens when one's religious teachings tell that it is OK to murder or you don't get the rewards of Heaven. The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials are examples of "Christian" extremism. We see today the examples of Islamic extremism. When people believe their Spritual Life to be in jepardy, they will go to extremes. People HALVE to believe in a "Life after Death", or there is no justification for life.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 10:28:36 PM||   2005-03-09 10:28:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 Congratulations, Deacon, on figuring out your own way. The problem is that too many people "believe" as a matter of upbringing and habit, without as a result really believing anything at all, except that their parents and pastor were right -- a very shaky foundation upon which to build the world. I imagine your poor father feared you would pollute your Sunday School class with your questions... and he was probably right. ;-)

As for the Muslims of the world, the problem is those enclaves where they are taught that it is necessary to murder non-believers in order to get into Paradise, and the massive funding to support the result. As has been said so often here and elsewhere, until the Muslims themselves reject the violent ones in their midst, Islam will not be cured.

And Bobby, before you tell your Muslim friends that you are Jewish (per Ark. CSI), ask them about Israel, and see how many consider blowing up Jewish schoolchildren and teenagers at the disco to be unacceptable. Of course, the same test holds for any self labelled Progressives, academics, etc.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-09 10:52:46 PM||   2005-03-09 10:52:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Frank, beautifully succinct. Thanks for saying what I would have meant had I had your brain on loan. As of the sense of humor thingy, I think sex proves it, don't you? Not to mention noses.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-09 10:56:01 PM||   2005-03-09 10:56:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 One last thought.... people are individulas, of course, and not all members of a group are the 'same'

I had read that the Israel problem would never be resolved because it was about religion. My Moroccan friend said, "Oh, no, Monsieur (Bobby), it's not about religion, it's about LAND. We lived with the Jews for 1200 years without a problem." Now, I grant you the Jews might have had another opinion! But I will try the Jew question. I did have a couple of (recent) Muslims agree with me that both Jews and Christians were "of the book" - the Bible.... Good night, and may God bless!
Posted by Bobby 2005-03-09 11:01:09 PM||   2005-03-09 11:01:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 thanks TW - I'm pretty basic, but like where I am in the world. Noses? yep, among other daily personal "humiliations"...lol
Posted by Frank G  2005-03-09 11:03:36 PM||   2005-03-09 11:03:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 nite Bobby
Posted by Frank G  2005-03-09 11:04:20 PM||   2005-03-09 11:04:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 Bobby, the Koran/Qu'ran/Qur'an defines Jews and Christians as "People of the Book". In some verses this is to be respected, in others this means they corrupted the original Word of God as revealed once again to Mohammed, and therefore must be tormented by all true Muslims until they admit their mistake and convert to the one true religion. Torments to include special dhimmi taxes -- both individual and community, having their orphans taken away to be forcibly converted, never being allowed to have their heads higher than a Muslim's, or being allowed to witness in court against a Muslim, holding their property with the permission of the Muslim government -- but only so long as that permission continues to be given, and so forth along this theme.

You might want to ask your Muslim friends about this, too.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-09 11:10:54 PM||   2005-03-09 11:10:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 What happened in Beshen (that russian school) and the completely NON-reaction of the 'moderate muslims' (except for some dancing in the streets) to the raping of children and bayonetting of babies convinced me that Islam was evil.

When those IRA christian terrorist bombed that catholic girls school you heard condemnation from just about every christian organization. When Islam does it there is dancing in the streets and silence from the alledged 'moderates'.

Bobby, yes they lived with Jews --- as long as the Jews are completely supressed and humiliated:

From DhimmiWatch:

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.

The dhimmi attitude of chastened subservience has entered into Western academic study of Islam, and from there into journalism, textbooks, and the popular discourse. One must not point out the depredations of jihad and dhimmitude; to do so would offend the multiculturalist ethos that prevails everywhere today.
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-03-09 11:16:35 PM||   2005-03-09 11:16:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Mrs Davis, Jesus did indeed have a sense of humor. "You strain at a nat and swallow a camel" comes to mind. Trailing wife, My Father actually incouraged my questioning of Baptist dogma. He was considered very progressive for a Baptist Minister in that he supported the Civil Rights legislation and he doesn't believe the Earth was created in 6 days, etc. I owe a lot of my beliefs to his encourging me to find my own way. Mrs. Davis, I find it hard to differentiate between Christians and modern Christianity. I am not a Catholic and maybe I am speaking out of turn here but I find it very hard to reconcile Jesus' teachings with the Catholic Church, or for that matter the Baptist Church. Strict adherance to Religious Law without adherance to the Spirit of the law is doomed to failure. If you don't believe something in your heart but do it because it is required is pointless, as far as religion is concerned. That is why I oppose structured prayer public in schools. Public schools have no business teaching ANY religious beliefs and certainly have no business forcing students to "pray" to a God. I believe this is the fundamental difference between Christianity, and to some extent Judaism, from Islam. Christianity and Judaism involve freedom of choice. Islam doesn't. In Christianity and modern Judaism God will exact his punishment. In Islam the religious leaders will enact God's punishment. A person has no choice in Islam, it's either follow Mohammed's "teachings" and the Imam's interpretations or you die. Also in Islam, there is never any personal responsibilty. EVERYTING is Allah's will.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-09 11:22:39 PM||   2005-03-09 11:22:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 I shall pay more attention in the future.
Posted by Bobby 2005-03-09 11:24:19 PM||   2005-03-09 11:24:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 I suggest that anyone who believes they have a Muslim "friend" take some care. It would depend, rather greatly, on both which "flavor" of Islam and whether or not they were born into it - although, as we all know, sometimes converts are the more zealous - think of ex-smokers, for instance.

Anyway, it might be a real surprise. Muslim First is not an empty phrase. Try this: hang outside your "friend's" moskkk on a Friday - around 1:00 PM and wait for them to come out. Go up to your friend and greet him. The reaction will tell you everything you need to know.

When I see the 104th Moderate Muslim Brigade wipe out some jihadi group, say Ansar al Islam or Hamas, then I'll be a believer. Until then, no.
Posted by .com 2005-03-09 11:52:40 PM||   2005-03-09 11:52:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 Good point, .com. I guess I didn't state one of my points quite right but you did. Most religions teach that one cannot question religious dogma. Don't think for yourself. I was taught that men have one less rib than women because God took one of Adam's ribs to make Eve. When I took human biology in college I found out different and tried to correct some of the Old Line Baptists and was told I had been taken over by the Devil. For some, questioning the "Religious" beliefs is grounds for eternal damnation.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2005-03-10 12:02:49 AM||   2005-03-10 12:02:49 AM|| Front Page Top

00:02 Deacon Blues
23:59 Cyber Sarge
23:54 Eric Jablow
23:52 .com
23:37 Bobby
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