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2005-02-17 Home Front: Politix
Oh yeah, and Scheuer's a nut
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Posted by Dan Darling 2005-02-17 1:06:17 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 No wonder the wondrous Sheurer, our bin Laden hunter, never caught dick - he loves the guy and buys into the AlQ dogma. Everything I read about him, every quote from him and his execrable, Excreable, and excretal book are breathtaking.

Goss sure has a tough row to hoe.

Thx, Dan!
Posted by .com 2005-02-17 3:55:43 AM||   2005-02-17 3:55:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Mt reaction was the guy has a variation on the Stockholm Syndrome.

Otherwise, Israel is disproportionately important in US foriegn policy and the Holocuast is used to justify Israels existence, but far and away the most important reason for US support is Israel is both a democracy and reliable ally. Republican support of Israel is particularly noteworthy becuase US Jews as a demographic overwhelmingly vote Democratic.

His basic arguement is the US could curry favor with the Arabs by selling out Israel. I doubt this is true for reasons we have discussed at length and the Bush doctrine of act from principle and back it up with force where necessary is in MVHO the one most likely to achieve results.
Posted by phil_b 2005-02-17 4:17:37 AM||   2005-02-17 4:17:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 As the guys at Powerline wrote, the guy's nom de plume is Anonymous, but it should really be Goofy.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2005-02-17 4:27:22 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-02-17 4:27:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Lacking in originality. Strong on popular appeal.

p.s. I remember when "Israel is a source of all evil" was an attribute of Europe's lunatic fringe.
Posted by gromgorru  2005-02-17 5:05:58 AM||   2005-02-17 5:05:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Sheurer's speech will look good on his resume when he applies for a job working for the Saudis.
Posted by Mark Z.  2005-02-17 5:54:01 AM||   2005-02-17 5:54:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 In Imperial Hubris, Scheuer previously warned of the "dangers" of questioning the U.S.-Israeli relationship,

So dangerous that instead of being mysteriously dead, leaving only empty bank accounts and an ugly odor behind, the gentleman -- if I may use the term -- has a successful and lucrative career lecturing the terminally stupid.
Posted by trailing wife 2005-02-17 6:30:36 AM||   2005-02-17 6:30:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 "... widely cited author of a scathing critique of the Bush administration’s war on terror..."

Big surprise there. If he had written to say that the stragedy were effective, there would be zero cites in the MSM.
Posted by jackal  2005-02-17 7:34:09 AM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2005-02-17 7:34:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 No wonder we still don't have OBL if this toad had anything to do with it.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-02-17 8:32:01 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2005-02-17 8:32:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 all comments above spot on:

Obligatory Rant: A part of me is sorry to see this posted at rantburg. By posting his lies, it helps give wings to his poisonous ideas. Once again, repeat after me: There is no such thing as negative publicity. Unwanted publicity - yes. Negative publicity, no.

For each sane one of us who reads this and just rolls our eyes, there will be someone who will think to themselves, for the very first time, "Yeeeeah...there are a lot of Jews in Congress and in Hollywood and they control Wall Street too!" "Things in my world aren't perfect, maybe THAT is the reason why".

Because the ideas are already so prevalent throughout the Moon bat world, I know they need to be addressed. But it's double edge sword, like addressing a troll. They have less credibility when ignored than they do even if successfully ridiculed.

I know we can't just ignore Scheuer. But when we address him, we are basically hitting his "tip jar" with free publicity and increased book sales....but worse, we are helping to spread his lies. And I'm sure he is very grateful for whatever attention we are willing to throw his way. /rant over/

Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 8:46:22 AM||   2005-02-17 8:46:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Do we still wonder how we were behind on intel on WMD.
Posted by plainslow 2005-02-17 8:51:18 AM||   2005-02-17 8:51:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "it has also made it exceedingly "dangerous" for Scheuer to discuss this grand scheme."

Dangerous? How? If, by "dangerous," he means he will be blacklisted and will "never work in this town again," well, just the opposite has happened. He's attained celebrity status. And he's making a fortune by simply repeating his rehearsed Jew conspiracy crap. It never ceases to be a crowd pleaser.

If, by "dangerous," he believes the Mossad will be after him, he's in terrible need of psychotropic drugs.

Posted by PlanetDan  2005-02-17 9:18:00 AM||   2005-02-17 9:18:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 On the one hand, I'm not happy to see Scheuer get more publicity; on the other hand, I didn't know in the first place that he was a muttering-under-his-breath-about-the-zionists sort of moonbat.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-02-17 9:19:32 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2005-02-17 9:19:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 I'd be looking at his colleagues, underlings and especially his supervisors who year after year (22 total) signed off on this asshat
Posted by Frank G  2005-02-17 9:35:15 AM||   2005-02-17 9:35:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 good point Phil. What's more effective than posting his lies would be posting what that WE want to be known about him -that he's a money grubbing anti-semetic nut who failed to find binLaden.

Articles that discredit him personally, with just the slightest mention that he wrote a book about X, so that we know who we are talking about (but don't give the actual title) is useful. But it should be 24/7 that he's a nut with absolutely no promotion of his poisonious ideas.

Never ever put him on the talk shows to debate his ideas, but instead give the limelight to others, whom you want to give publicity, to talk about what a nut he is and how he failed to find bin Laden.

Propaganda is like poison oak - people have to come in contact with it to get infected. It's irrelevant how they come in contact with it - only that they do.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 9:46:47 AM||   2005-02-17 9:46:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 and this is my beef with Fox News. All they ever do is say, "Scheuer says this...do you think he's right or wrong". They never show the pictures of our soldiers with smiling children, or have positive pieces that talk about the schools built, reconstruction, and the overall improvement in Iraq. Why is that? But don't get me started.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 9:55:08 AM||   2005-02-17 9:55:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 can't stop.... the ultimate goal would be that the word "Scheuer" makes one think, "failed loser responsible for 911", rather than "author".
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 10:26:37 AM||   2005-02-17 10:26:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 as in "Clarke"
Posted by Frank G  2005-02-17 10:45:54 AM||   2005-02-17 10:45:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I think that there is a silver lining here. I really doubt that he'll be on too many talk shows and CFR panels after this outburst. Look at how marginalized Buchanan has become.

The bad news is that this will become grist to feed the neo-Nazi and Islamist propaganda mills: "Respected CIA analyst confirms our position."

Very good point Frank G. You really gotta wonder how prevalent his views are inside the analyst bureaucracy.
Posted by 11A5S 2005-02-17 12:22:57 PM||   2005-02-17 12:22:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 It really is an indictment of the CIA that they had such an idiot in charge of Binny hunting. Do they really believe that all the problems of the Arab and muslim world would cease if Israel were to disappear? We've discussed on RB before that the Arab world's problems run much deeper than that. Israel is just a convenient excuse for not addressing root-level problems. Why deal with your problems when you can blame everything on the jooos?
Posted by Spot  2005-02-17 1:35:38 PM||   2005-02-17 1:35:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Sounds like he's basically selling out his country to make some quick bucks peddling books, lectures, etc. to those who want to see the Joooooooooos behind everything, and giving both antisemitism and antiamericanism more momentum (as if either needed any) in the process.

If there's a lower form of scum than that, I can't think of it offhand.
Posted by docob 2005-02-17 1:44:16 PM||   2005-02-17 1:44:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I cannot divulge details, but NOW - finally, you here at Rantburg can see first-hand why I said the senior positions in the CIA needed to be cleaned out with a flamethrower - and why a "cleanout" would not damage our intelligence system any worse than it is already.

After seeing this guy (and realizing that he was very senior): Do you now have any wonder left as to how we got sucker punched on 9/11, and how we got Iraq so wrong in terms of resistance and WMD?

On the whole, the agencies were looking the wrong way - and those people who were looking the right way got stifled by this type of senior staff for rocking the boat and violating consensus & conventional wisdom.

And to those who said I was too extreme in my views about cleaning house at CIA - take a close look at this guy now that he is out of the shadows. *HE* is the type of senior intel official the "old boys" club produces and promotes into leaderhip positions.

Porter Goss needs to fire even more people - and to check this guy's stuff and jail him if he spilled anything. Just like Rathergate & the Bush docuemnts, if they guy has any facts and evidence, its time for him to reoport ti to the congress and press - or else be relegated to the black-helicoter/tin-foil-beanie brigade where he can join Boris and all the other nutjob anti-Jew conspiracy whackos.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM||   2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 So, how many of you have ever worked with Mike? How many of you agree with Pat Buchanan and his look at US overseas policies?

The true culprit on why UBL wasn't rolled up wasn't because of the intel, it was the policy makers. Ask Mansur Hijazi, who offered UBL up to the USG in the mid 90s. Go back and look at who in the IC was trying to tell policy makers that UBL was a threat. Let's take a look at who was sounding the alarm and who was sitting on their thumbs -- Mike wasn't one of the thumb sitters.

Binni declared war on the US in August 1996, published in al Quds al Arabi. Only a handful of folks besides Mike Sheuer believed we were at war and was working to prevent a disaster. The first disaster was in East Africa -- two years after the fact.

Most of the comments, IMHO, are out of line and inconsistent with what I experienced in the mid to late 90s.

Submitted FYI -- one man's honest opinion on what was going on behind the green door.
Posted by H8_UBL 2005-02-17 5:48:40 PM||   2005-02-17 5:48:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 H8 UBL: You make a valid point that intel alone wasn't responsible. Many people share the blame. 9/11 was like the Donner Party - a series of bad decisions, with lots of blame to go around. But your point about Mike is drowned by his drivel written above. Did you read it? Do you still defend him!? Then all you are doing is adding credence to Frank G's point above.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 5:59:55 PM||   2005-02-17 5:59:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 2b - I read the original article over the weekend and I don't agree with the conspiracy thread. The point some folks might miss, however, is that this isn'n OpEd Mike wrote. It's an article where the author took a small portion of his comments and did a pretty darn good job of making Mike look like an anti-Semite worthy of having Simon Weasenthal hunt him down. I first read the article in a Wall Street Journal Post, earlier in the week.

In that light, I did think, the article was biased and really did a great disservice for all the great, unpublicized work Mike did in a system that largely dismissed his warning and thought his predicitions were "Nuts".

I think we may have missed the opportunity to comment on the central theme, which is that US-Israeli cooperation plays into the hands of the Salafists and Takfiri in the world -- count UBL, AMZ, EIJ, IG, etc -- with dry kindling. Do I think there is a conspiracy by the state of Israei -- no; Does US support of Israel have political consequences -- especially vis-a-vis the terrorist threat -- definitely yes. Regardless of how we justify our overseas policies, especially in the ME, those policies are still viewed largely as pro-Israeli by a great number Arabs, which is then translated as being anti-Palestenian, Arab, Islam, etc... Do we shuck Israel to avoid the threat of terrorists like Binni, no, but we can probably can do more to expedite an Israeli-Palestenian solution, which would eventually remove an anti-US catalyst from a volatile region.

With that said, highly recommend ALCON try and listen to the debate discussion between Pat Buchanan and Schranasky (sic) from this weeknd's Sunday talk show to drive the discussion into a good thought provoking examination on US foreign policy at large, and US-Israeli-Arab relations in particular.
Posted by H8_UBL 2005-02-17 6:34:29 PM||   2005-02-17 6:34:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 fine, H8_UBL, but we support the only democracy in the ME (prior to Iraq's transformation) and our current policies (along with the Fish's timely demise) are bringing bigger progress to peace than ever. I'm still of the opinion the Paleos can't go much further without a civil war to sort out a national consensus, but I could very well be wrong
Posted by Frank G  2005-02-17 6:39:57 PM||   2005-02-17 6:39:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 The problem is that as an analyst, you job is not only to analyze the data, but to get inside the head of yor opponent, in order to accurately predict what he will do.

But then comes the second part: you have to substantiate your position, and sell it (yes, SELL it) to the powers that be.

If you are right, but for the wrong reasons, and come across as a howling moonbat, then you will lose credibility and no matter how accurate your analysis product, it will be discounted because you didnt support it and sell it.

Were you to have that fellow come to you with his case for Bin Laden, and then back it up by saying the Congress was Co-Opted and the whole thing was an Israeli intelligence operation to control the world, then of course you'd question EVERTHING the guy said.

So, just like a stopped clock, Scheuer was right a couple times, but for all the wrong reasons, and that caused us to waste resoruces dealing with the wrong things if his work was in fact acted upon. For his work to be acted upon, the larger threat to the US was Israel and its influence operations aimed at our congress - far more damage would be done to the US if that was true.

And if he was considered to be wrong, then we would have ignored the "Israeli intellig3ence is running congress" - as well as the things that went with it and depended upon it: the Bin Laden gang.

Scheuer is typical of the mindset that some top level people have. ANd thats why we fail and continue to fail the nation in the intelligence community. And intelligcence failures are costly in terms of lives, as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and so vividly illustrate.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM||   2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 hmmm...once again, nice start. But...ya see, the thing is, I'm super sensitive. I don't even need to touch poison oak to break out in a rash.

I don't know if you have been around rantburg long, but the other regular posters will be very surprised that the only thing I have to say to you is FUCK YOU LOSER ASSHOLE. As Mike's co-worker, it's clear that you too have the blood of the 3,000 WTC dead on your hands because you chose to ignore the obvious and sit quietly as you excused sign after sign after sign - in order be in with the crowd.

Do you see their faces when you go to sleep at night?

Instead of trying to justify it by blaming someone, anyone else but yourself, why don't you just ask for forgiveness? It's really not your fault. It's no ones fault.

But it becomes your sin as you try to justify it away. Maybe Mike is taken out of context. I don't claim to know. But unless he AND YOU are willing to look to seek to blame others, you can continue your descent into hell and fuck off.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 6:57:20 PM||   2005-02-17 6:57:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 grr... make that ...as long as he and you...
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 6:58:41 PM||   2005-02-17 6:58:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 you know...on second thought I just take it all back. Delete.

Frank G is right.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 7:12:26 PM||   2005-02-17 7:12:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Quoting:
I think we may have missed the opportunity to comment on the central theme, which is that US-Israeli cooperation plays into the hands of the Salafists and Takfiri in the world -- count UBL, AMZ, EIJ, IG, etc -- with dry kindling. Do I think there is a conspiracy by the state of Israei -- no; Does US support of Israel have political consequences -- especially vis-a-vis the terrorist threat -- definitely yes. Regardless of how we justify our overseas policies, especially in the ME, those policies are still viewed largely as pro-Israeli by a great number Arabs, which is then translated as being anti-Palestenian, Arab, Islam, etc... Do we shuck Israel to avoid the threat of terrorists like Binni, no, but we can probably can do more to expedite an Israeli-Palestenian solution, which would eventually remove an anti-US catalyst from a volatile region.


Or that might make things worse: from the Washington Post's Inside the Mind of Bin Laden:

What Americans view as bin Laden's megalomania -- the conviction that he and a relatively small band of followers can defeat a superpower -- has its origins in the humbling of the Soviet superpower in the mountains of Afghanistan. In a CNN interview in 1997, he said that "the myth of the superpower was destroyed not only in my mind but also in the minds of all Muslims" as a result of the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan at the hands of mujaheddin.

Bin Laden's contempt for America seems even greater than his contempt for the Soviet Union. "The Russian soldier is more courageous and patient than the U.S. soldier," he told the London-based Arab newspaper, al-Quds al-Arabi, in 1996. "Our battle with the United States is easy compared with the battles in which we engaged in Afghanistan."

As examples of alleged American cowardice, bin Laden frequently cites the case of the withdrawal from Lebanon after the 1983 truck bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and the withdrawal from Somalia after the 1993 killings of U.S. servicemen in Mogadishu. Bin Laden also has paid a great deal of attention to the symbolism of his targets. In a video that circulated widely in the Arab world earlier this year, he bragged of the attack on the USS Cole by a boat filled with explosives in Aden harbor in October 2000. The destroyer had the "illusion she could destroy anything," but was itself destroyed by a tiny boat, bin Laden said.

"The destroyer represented the West, and the small boat represented Muhammad," he boasted, according to a transcript of the videotape supplied by Peter Bergen, author of "Holy War Inc.," a forthcoming book about bin Laden.


While I actually have sympathy for the Palestinians, and want to see them eventually throw off the shackles of all those in the Arab world who would fight the Israelis to the last drop of Palestinian blood... trying to gain favor with the extremists in the middle east by selling out the Israelis is only likely to feed this perception of weakness.

BTW, I also suggest reading Bin Laden's fatwa, conveniently available here. He mentions Zionists, but he also mentions US armies of occupation in Saudi Arabia, and the millions of civilians he alleges the US killed in Iraq... now he blames US invasions and occupations on Israel, but if peace, love, and kumbaya broke out tomorrow in Israel and Palestine, we'd still have to support the Iraqi government against the Shi'ites, and still have to deal with Iran, and they'd come up with another conspiracy theory to justify what they really want to do.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-02-17 7:34:38 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2005-02-17 7:34:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Please folks, let me clarify a few pointss. There were disagreements, within the IC in the pre East Africa (Aug 98) days -- 96 and 97, on the threat UBL posed to US interests. Mike correctly pointed out well before East Africa that UBL was a threat to US interests. His shop and mine, while heard, where not nescessarily taken seriously by folks within and outside of the IC. In the post-Khobar Tower enviornment, getting more than a handful of folks interested in Sunni extremists was difficult. After East Africa, but before the USS COLE, the Binni threat was taken more seriously, but certain policy makers still thought in limited scope terms in dealing with the terrorist menace; overall policy was one more of limiting/mitigating the threat, rather than eliminating the threat. Now, we have adopted a position in which the USG's goal is to eliminate, not mitigate, the threat. We've broken the post investigative mentality and are now far more proactive in delaing with threats.

In light of these comments, and the posts of my fellow Ranters ...

Frank G, I agree with your commnents and I think you're probably right that there are probably more years of violence ahead in the ME before exhaustion causes all parties to sit down and solve their problems.

Old Spook ... I would agree with your premise, but Mike wasn't addressing US-Israeli policy in 96-97, those issues were talked up by the folks in Foggy Bottom. Pre East Africa he was telling people, whether they chose to believe it or not, that we were going to be attacked, that we needed to address the problem now (96-97), not later (2001); and we had to go after the threat in such a way it would make Machiavelli cringe (my words, not his). In that context, once the policy makers demur, we all had to rehuddle and repitch the case, which was done often. Perhaps we didn't make a convincing enough case, but one would think East Africa and USS Cole would have changed some of the calculus in the Clinton White house decision circle.

For 2b, I really hope you didn't mean those comments. I've lost friends from Beirut to the Pentagon over the course of many years, spent too much time from home and family trying to prevent Binni, AMZ and his drones from doing real evil in the world, to have your words pierce too deep. Do I see faces, sure, especially the folks I knew who died on 9-11; it's quite haunting to replay why warnings and suggested actions to remove this cancer weren't acted upon. Regardless, they weren't and here we are. Fortunately, and incrimentally, we are winning, but now it will take us much longer to accomplish something more achievable in 97-99, than it maybe in 2005.

IMHO, we're lucky we had GW to execute OEF, too bad he wasn't in his current postion in 96-99
Posted by H8_UBL 2005-02-17 8:12:00 PM||   2005-02-17 8:12:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 fair enuf H8
Posted by Frank G  2005-02-17 8:17:54 PM||   2005-02-17 8:17:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 well...h8, you talk a good game and I would be happy to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm still leary since you defended the vile crap that is posted above.

Perhaps it is taken out of context. If so, you have my apologies.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 8:25:19 PM||   2005-02-17 8:25:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 You can always follow the links 2b and read it. I just did.

H8_UBL: I just read Sheuer's speach and most of the Q&A and frankly my opinion of him remains the same. I think that he is just plain wrong on a lot of things:

* OBL is a "rational actor."
* Pakistan is our best ally in this war.
* Afghanistan is going to blow up on us any minute.
* We let ourselves be led by Israel rather than the other way around.

On the other hand, I agree with him on a couple of things:

* We need to fight this war ferociously. Stop the "proportionate response" carp. That was supposed to die with McNamara.
* The transnational threat (called the Learned Elders of Islam or Council of Boskone here) is much greater than the national threat.

Also, reading between the lines, I don't think that he appreciates the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah threat sufficiently.

Overall, I'd rate him as probably a good tactical analyst. I don't think that he should be talking to the CFR about strategic issues. I'm very disturbed that he's bought into the "Israel controlling Congress" crap. God knows how many 3rd World "intellectuals" have handed me that line over the years. I believe that the Weekly Standard was correct to give prominence to his anti-Israel statements. Scheuer should not be an important part of the public debate.
Posted by 11A5S 2005-02-17 8:46:25 PM||   2005-02-17 8:46:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 And one last thought. You said, "How many of you agree with Pat Buchanan and his look at US overseas policies?" There are two ways that I can interpret your meaning for that comment. If your intent was to support Pat's POV, then I can only say that Old Spook's comments should cut you far deeper than my own.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 8:50:35 PM||   2005-02-17 8:50:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 H8, thanks for the info. The back story on politics in the CIA is something I've never been privy to, very interesting.
Posted by Chase Unineger3873 aka Jarhead 2005-02-17 10:08:40 PM||   2005-02-17 10:08:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I was an Air Force Imagery Analyst for 20+ years, including tours at NPIC, Germany, England, and Offutt. I worked with a lot of CIA folks on a daily basis, and know some 40 people that work for the Agency in Washington, DC. I haven't had any dealings with them since I retired in 1991, even though I still get a notice from a very senior CIA member every year to join him in Washington. Thanks, but no thanks.

Mike Scheur's attitude is quite prevelant among the analysts I knew in DC, and even moreso among the analysts in the State Department's Intelligence Department. It wasn't there among the imagery analysts, and it's certainly not there among the folks at NSA, but it's highly prevelant among the people at Langley. The change took place during the 1975-1985 time period, when the Agency switched from hiring senior military intel folks to hiring college graduates for analysis. The housecleaning needs to be fast, effective, and deep, and a lot of "whiz kids" with idiotic looney ideas need to have to search for real jobs - soon.
Posted by Old Patriot  2005-02-17 10:11:41 PM|| [http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2005-02-17 10:11:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 We are at war. As much so with ideas as we are with guns. The Elders of Zion myth is a lie that we were "fooled once" with in Hitler's time resulting in millions dead. It is the lie that destroys most progress in the Islamic world today.

Shame on anyone who allows it or it's ugly step child, the idea that US is led by Israel, to go unchallenged in polite circles.
Posted by 2b 2005-02-17 11:43:41 PM||   2005-02-17 11:43:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Old Patriot - you nailed it. CIA has their own analysts, and IMHO, they are not nearly as sharp anymore as the wizards in the more technical agencies, especially the "all source" guys I worked with at no such agency and DIA and the SCE's.

And thats why "we" (the entire IC) missed the stuff that was there in front of us.

I say "We" although I've been gone for almost a decade now, except reserve duty (and that ended prior to 9/11).

I'm getting back in, once my SSBI and PRP investigations are done and adjudicated (big backlog on those). As a part-time "contractor". Looking forward to it.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM||   2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 I cannot divulge details, but NOW - finally, you here at Rantburg can see first-hand why I said the senior positions in the CIA needed to be cleaned out with a flamethrower - and why a "cleanout" would not damage our intelligence system any worse than it is already.

After seeing this guy (and realizing that he was very senior): Do you now have any wonder left as to how we got sucker punched on 9/11, and how we got Iraq so wrong in terms of resistance and WMD?

On the whole, the agencies were looking the wrong way - and those people who were looking the right way got stifled by this type of senior staff for rocking the boat and violating consensus & conventional wisdom.

And to those who said I was too extreme in my views about cleaning house at CIA - take a close look at this guy now that he is out of the shadows. *HE* is the type of senior intel official the "old boys" club produces and promotes into leaderhip positions.

Porter Goss needs to fire even more people - and to check this guy's stuff and jail him if he spilled anything. Just like Rathergate & the Bush docuemnts, if they guy has any facts and evidence, its time for him to reoport ti to the congress and press - or else be relegated to the black-helicoter/tin-foil-beanie brigade where he can join Boris and all the other nutjob anti-Jew conspiracy whackos.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM||   2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 The problem is that as an analyst, you job is not only to analyze the data, but to get inside the head of yor opponent, in order to accurately predict what he will do.

But then comes the second part: you have to substantiate your position, and sell it (yes, SELL it) to the powers that be.

If you are right, but for the wrong reasons, and come across as a howling moonbat, then you will lose credibility and no matter how accurate your analysis product, it will be discounted because you didnt support it and sell it.

Were you to have that fellow come to you with his case for Bin Laden, and then back it up by saying the Congress was Co-Opted and the whole thing was an Israeli intelligence operation to control the world, then of course you'd question EVERTHING the guy said.

So, just like a stopped clock, Scheuer was right a couple times, but for all the wrong reasons, and that caused us to waste resoruces dealing with the wrong things if his work was in fact acted upon. For his work to be acted upon, the larger threat to the US was Israel and its influence operations aimed at our congress - far more damage would be done to the US if that was true.

And if he was considered to be wrong, then we would have ignored the "Israeli intellig3ence is running congress" - as well as the things that went with it and depended upon it: the Bin Laden gang.

Scheuer is typical of the mindset that some top level people have. ANd thats why we fail and continue to fail the nation in the intelligence community. And intelligcence failures are costly in terms of lives, as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and so vividly illustrate.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM||   2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Old Patriot - you nailed it. CIA has their own analysts, and IMHO, they are not nearly as sharp anymore as the wizards in the more technical agencies, especially the "all source" guys I worked with at no such agency and DIA and the SCE's.

And thats why "we" (the entire IC) missed the stuff that was there in front of us.

I say "We" although I've been gone for almost a decade now, except reserve duty (and that ended prior to 9/11).

I'm getting back in, once my SSBI and PRP investigations are done and adjudicated (big backlog on those). As a part-time "contractor". Looking forward to it.
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM||   2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#43 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM||   2005-02-17 4:15:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM||   2005-02-17 6:40:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM||   2005-02-18 12:03:28 AM|| Front Page Top

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