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2005-02-08 Olde Tyme Religion

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Posted by Mike Sylwester 2005-02-08 8:48:32 AM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Hygiene? I hope these tips are every bit as 'scientific' and clean as the recommendation that people not cover their nose/mouth area when sneezing. Apparently the great and all knowing (not)prophet mohammed didn't understand the spread of germs from sneezing and coughing. But that doesn't seem to matter since he apparently knew all about how salt water and freash water don't mix together centuries before anyone else. Incredible! I mean, who cares about devout muslims going around spreading sickness and disease and spewing snot into the air we breathe when we can see that mohammed knew so much about the behavior of water long before anyone could possible have known it?!

sar.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-08 10:32:55 AM|| 2005-02-08 10:32:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Tahoor i presume related to the Hebrew Tahara. Which does not mean clean, but ritually pure. The word shows up repeatedly throughout Leviticus.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 10:55:08 AM|| 2005-02-08 10:55:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Thus we can see the difference between a religious system set up by thoughtful, intelligent and forward looking people and one cobbled together out of the detritus of half-remembered stories and superstitions of an uneducated nomadic subsistence culture.

The Jewish laws as written in the Torah are actually quite good at keeping you healthy in a primitive society.

Posted by Jame Retief 2005-02-08 11:32:41 AM|| 2005-02-08 11:32:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 And we can see a big difference between the kind of questions asked of imams and rabbis.

I have read ask a rabbi sites on the web before, but for some reason, I dunno, I have never got the impression that the questioners were overly obsessed with bodily discharges and worrying about the most obsessive minutia. Nor did I get the impression that they were ijits.

I think that there is a difference in how average Jews understand ritual purity from the way the average muslim does. There seems to be a different spirit in Judaism from where I stand anyway. While it is very important for observant Jews to observe the law as exactly as possible, nonetheless, the law and its observance seems to have a different end for them. The relationship between Jews and the God of Israel is different in spirit, a covenant relationship, a marraige, a love match and observance of the law is meant to be a vehicle to that end.

I don't presume to be teaching any Jews about this because this is something I know you already know and you probably know it better than I do. I write about it to offer contrast to what muslims believe about their relationship with God which seems much less mature and deep. Ritual purity becomes a much greater obsession with them because in islam, God's love is dependent on whether his creatures please him. If he says to be obsessed with cleanliness, then if the muslim wants God's love then he better obssess with cleanliness. They don't have the concept of a God who loves unconditionally in the sense that while he may punish those who go astray, he does not abandon those to whom he has given his promises. It is not a love relationship, or a covenant relationship with muslims and in fact in several parts of the koran and hadith it is explicitly denied as being such. The muslim conception of God is leagues more distant and remote than the Jewish vision and ritual purity must be maintained in order to appease the great deity and receive success from him in exchange. Its a transaction.

Of course among the folk, God is probably imagined to be much warmer and closer since this is the most natural conception of God among monotheists. But for any of the muslim folk who do have this warmer God in mind, they also are more casual in their observance. For those who really take islam seriously and study the sources and are strictly observant, the cold distant Awesome Terror predominates because that is the God that is derived when the whole text of the koran and hadiths are added up.

Jews on the other hand can be strictly observant and yet the warm, intimate God seems to predominate among them. Strict observance seems to result in something different. Deep study produces something wholly different. The results seem to reflect that the whole Jewish enterprise is based on mutual love between God and his people in which God promises to be with Israel unconditionally and his people promise to keep his law as an expression of their love for Him.

Does that sound about right? I'm sure there are exceptions that can be brought up and schools of thought that might be closer to the islamic way, but by and large, there is a mighty difference in spirit. It comes from the words. The words matter. The specifics matter. The details matter. I don't think its possible to reach more than a superficial resemblence while using different books, divided by gulfs of experience, culture, personality, and habits of religious study. This ask an imam page is an excellent illustration of that.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-08 4:08:20 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:08:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 I have read ask a rabbi sites on the web before, but for some reason, I dunno, I have never got the impression that the questioners were overly obsessed with bodily discharges and worrying about the most obsessive minutia

then you obviously aint read the right rabbis :) First we're notorious for arguing about obsessive minutia - you have spent much time examining any serious discussions of Jewish law. As for the discharges, i suggest you google Niddah on the web. Or Mikveh. Id really rather not discuss this with a woman in public (some Orthodox women have asked for a quasi ordination of women rabbis to cover only this sphere of the law, so they dont have to discuss it with male rabbis)

But the concern with minutae in Judaism IS spiritual - its dedicated to G-d, and is seen as an expression devotion to His word, and making His word permeate our actions and thoughts. I know MUCH less about Islam, but IIUC its at least claimed that something similar happens in Islam.

The main areas of superiority I claim for Judaism is a background thats got more capability of opening to women, and the fact that were NOT proselytizers, which means an entirely different approach to the G-d and the human race. (I would say some things about pluralism and rationalism, except that Judaism hasnt ALWAYS been for those things, nor Islam ALWAYS against, and im not sure how much of that is intrinsic and how much is historical accident). Its NOT that we're less concerned with minutae (Im speaking of traditional Judaism here, not Reform)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:20:17 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:20:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 "Dishes:

To kasher china, earthenware, porcelain, corningware, corrella, pyrex, duralex enamel, and glazed stoneware, put in a self-cleaning oven for a full cycle. Replacing with new dishes might be the best solution as intense heat may damage dishes.
Valuable porcelain dishes which have not been used for one year may be kashered, with a rabbi's permission, by dipping in boiling water 3 times.
Glassware used for cold, or for tea and coffee, may be kashered by soaking in room temperature water for 72 hours, changing the water every 24 hours. "

This is a simple approach. And i would note it takes an Orthodox POV. The Conservative Rabbinate considers Pyrex to be as easily kashered as Glassware, IIUC. ;)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:23:38 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:23:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 In Islam the Mullahs can and do dictate EVERY aspect of muslim life with the threat of death hanging over every "disobediance". Being on the outside looking in, it doesn't seem to me the Rabbis go to the extreme the Mullahs do. In Islam God has enemies. In Judaism and Christianity God loves everyone. In Both Judaism and Christianity personal choice and personal responsibility for one's actions are paramount. In Islam everything that happens is God's Will so therefore the individual is not personally responsible for what he does. This may be a simplistic view but then again I am a simple person.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2005-02-08 4:27:16 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:27:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 There is a difference in the question one asks a Rabbi.

I asked a Rabbi if I should purchase a 1911A1 or a Browning HighPower. He told me the 1911A1 was a better thing to have if needed. I trusted in his good judgement and bought a 1911A1.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-02-08 4:36:41 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2005-02-08 4:36:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Both Judaism and Christianity personal choice and personal responsibility for one's actions are paramount. In Islam everything that happens is God's Will so therefore the individual is not personally responsible for what he does.

Ok, there youve got a point.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:38:21 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:38:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 In Islam God has enemies.

Theres actually a Jewish prayer that asks G-d to scatter his enemies.
For ex, I think youd be hard pressed to find a rabbi who would deny that Hitler was an enemy of G-d. But its not whole groups of unbelievers, youre right.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:40:13 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:40:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 yah, well, my rabbi is a dedicated Cubs fan, so I dont know Id want to take his judgement about anything secular I wasnt sure we he was well versed in ;)

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:41:20 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:41:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 that was to SPOD.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 4:41:52 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:41:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 This Rabbi IS well versed in firearms.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-02-08 4:46:04 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2005-02-08 4:46:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Please tell what is the meaning of purity I know but I want to know the full description about this what is written in (Quran). Wudhu and ghusl explained.

Explanation (Johnny Carson in his turban):
Quit being such a putz asking God about what is pure and impure. If you are that distressed about sexual fluids, go see a shrink.

Posted by Jules 187 2005-02-08 4:54:45 PM|| 2005-02-08 4:54:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Hadas-e-Akbar is that impurity which requires one to make ghusl (take a bath), for example, after having a wet dream or sexual intercourse with ones wife.

Has anyone thought to mention a change of the frickin' sheets on the bed?

For Jules187

RIP Good Johnny

Posted by BigEd 2005-02-08 5:17:20 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:17:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 :)

Thanks, Big Ed.

Posted by Jules 187 2005-02-08 5:19:10 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:19:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 "After passing stool I notice some bleeding. Is this blood napaak."

-I wish I could make stuff up this good. If you need an organized religion just to tell you how to wipe your own ass then your already phuked in my book. What's so amusing about this is people actually give up their God given reason and self confidence to be replaced by fear and self doubt. Prolly why I think I'm becoming a deist more and more each day.

Posted by Jarhead 2005-02-08 5:24:26 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:24:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Me, too, Jarhead.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2005-02-08 7:17:07 PM|| 2005-02-08 7:17:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 hmmm. wonderin if any yas saw thisn one:

Is Osamah bin Laden is really a hero of Islamic Ummah? Do Taliban government of Afghanistan done right by demolishing the Buddah statues?

1. Usama ibn Laden is a practising Muslim, and thus, our brother in Islam.
He has made many sacrifices for the Deen, in particular, the Jihaad of
Afghanistan. While we respect him for this, we do not raise any person to
any position, except that which Allah Ta'ala wishes.
2. He himself has denied involvement. Why should we then doubt him? Even if
a billion Kuffaar say the opposite, the word of a single practising Muslim
is more acceptable to us.
3. It was an Islamic duty for the Taliban to have destroyed the idols.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT

Posted by muck4doo 2005-02-08 9:24:58 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2005-02-08 9:24:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 5:14:05 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:14:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 5:14:05 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:14:05 PM|| Front Page Top

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Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 5:24:15 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:24:15 PM|| Front Page Top

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Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-02-08 5:24:15 PM|| 2005-02-08 5:24:15 PM|| Front Page Top

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