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2004-09-18 Europe

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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-18 7:35:05 PM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Springtime for Hitler!

Posted by Chris W. 2004-09-18 12:20:23 AM|| 2004-09-18 12:20:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 With Eggnog, such a warm and fuzzy feeling, this movie will bring!

Posted by smn 2004-09-18 1:05:08 AM|| 2004-09-18 1:05:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The Downfall, shown on 400 screens, stars Swiss actor Bruno Ganz as the Nazi leader and sparked debate about portraying Hitler with a human side.

I wasn't aware that it was possible to portray Hitler as having a "human side." What's more, if this movie downplays or does not even mention the death camps, it is nothing but a puff piece for neo-Nazis and may need to be banned. Hitler should at all times be directly connected with the very worst notions of man's inhumanity to man. Anything less is morally irresponsible. Something tells me this film won't be opening in Israel anytime soon.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-18 2:12:07 AM|| 2004-09-18 2:12:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I have allready seen this movie , and I can assure you that eventhough it claims to portray his "human" side, it is done in such a way that no one in theyre right mind walks away feeling anything but :"Wow, this dude was one sick Motherf***ker", it mostly concerns the last days in the bunker and from what I can gather from the history-books and documentaries gives a accurat description of the madness and despair that must have been rampant there at the time.

With all due respect Zenster, this movie is no puff piece for the Neo-Nazis, I came away deeply impressed and can certainly reccomend viewing it to all Rantburgers.

Posted by heysenbergmayhavebeenhere 2004-09-18 4:05:29 AM|| 2004-09-18 4:05:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Not having seen the film, let me suggest finding an incredible book from the late 70s called The Bunker by James O'Donnell - it is a minute by minute reconstruction of the last week in Berlin, and it sounds very much like Heisenberg's description: On the one hand you have "Uncle Fuhrer" (a term that the Goebbels children used) who was a genuine softy when it came to his inner circle - and then you have Der Fuhrer giving the orders to kill millions of people and burn his country to the ground because "they were not worthy of his genius." The book is VERY heavily researched and documented (O'Donnell was in fact sued by a former Hitler secretary because he got a bit too close to solving a long-time mystery involving some diamonds that disappeared during the breakout) and O'Donnell manages to give you a real 'you are there' feeling. If you can't see the movie, read this.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-09-18 10:22:16 AM|| 2004-09-18 10:22:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 With all due respect Zenster, this movie is no puff piece for the Neo-Nazis

Thank you for taking the time to make this clear. Germany's ongoing and unhealthy fascination with Nazism (however much not in the majority) still causes this to be a matter for concern.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-18 11:30:00 AM|| 2004-09-18 11:30:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Hitler. He was merely misunderstood and underappreciated. (Sarcasm.)

Funny how mass killings can be misconstrued in any other way than what they are: mass killings.

Posted by nada 2004-09-18 12:12:44 PM|| 2004-09-18 12:12:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Funny how mass killings can be misconstrued in any other way than what they are: mass killings.

Thank you, nada. That is how I'm still inclined to feel about this. It would seem as though I'm not the only one. There are considerable questions about this film in Germany as well. I continue to find it dubious in the extreme that Hitler should be shown against anything but a backdrop of the death camps. No matter how palsied, drug addled or psychotic he is depicted as being, the Holocaust should always be hung right 'round Hitler's neck like the historical albatross it is and forever shall be. The millions of innocents who paid for Hitler's pathological lunacy with their very lifeblood deserve no less.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-18 12:28:44 PM|| 2004-09-18 12:28:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I have seen this movie in a pre-screening that was arranged for witnesses of that time. While it's certainly not perfect I had no objections. Yes you could have had more cuts to show what happened in the camps in those last days of Hitler... and other things.

But anyone with "cosy" feelings about the Nazi time will hate this movie. I think the expression "with a human side" is misleading. The movie makes no attempt of showing a Hitler at least his mother could love. Hitler is shown doing mundane things (padding his dog or the children of Magda Goebbels, having some nice words for his secretary, eating spaghetti as his last meal), but these "human" moments only make the character more hateful, when after a "human" moment he erupts in hateful antisemitic diatribes, signs death penalties for "traitors" etc.

What this movie does (and it does so rather well): It de-demonizes Hitler, whom most Germans only know as that yelling, screaming speaker to the masses (in black and white). The movie does a close up, which is historically as accurate as can be, and the depressing claustrophobic atmosphere in that bunker is overwhelming.

Bruno Ganz had a discussion with us, telling us how difficult it was to play Hitler and that he nearly walked out in the midle of the shooting because it was getting too much for him. He said he had to force himself to feel pity for the character he played, at least for a few seconds, or he would have vomited. Bernd Eichinger, the director (remember "Das Boot") also had a few compelling things to say about how difficult it was to do the movie.

Germans have seen a galore of documentations about Hitler... this movie is different. I would not mind it being shown in schools... with competent guidance and discussions.

The Hitler we see here is "real" and "authentic", and the movie opens up new discussions, new readings, new interpretations. None of those will put the biggest criminal of mankind in a better light.. just in a light more blinding than ever.

This is not the movie to understand the full horrors of the Third Reich though. No movie could do those justice.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-18 1:07:09 PM|| 2004-09-18 1:07:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Have they aired The Hamburg Cell in Germany yet, TGA? Sounds like the same sort of approach. I'm all for humanizing such people. Anything else (the 'they're not human' response) is more dangerous than admitting that cruelty, on whatever scale, is far from inhuman; it is human. Which is why we must always confront it when we see it, and recognise it for what it is, with moral clarity.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-09-18 1:31:29 PM|| 2004-09-18 1:31:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 TGA, thank you for a truly "first-hand" assessment.

This is not the movie to understand the full horrors of the Third Reich though.

Perhaps it's just me, but I think we need a lot more movies which can do just that. I find it almost farcical how so many of today's shoe-sized IQ skinheads would have been among the first to be shipped off to the death camps. That Hitler continues to be an object of so much fascination and, more importantly, that the Holocaust continues to be denied makes it all the more vital that significant efforts be made at documenting this resounding horror.

Those within the Arab world and all others who extoll Hitler's genocide must be made to understand the monstrous taint and onus of permanent guilt that accompanies such monumental slaughter. Darfur is a solid demonstration of how shallow an impression has been made upon the Arab world towards that end.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-18 1:34:37 PM|| 2004-09-18 1:34:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Thanks for your insights, TGA.

On a different note, are you going to be an "observer" of our presidential election? If so, I suggest you try to get someone honest to observe the shenanigans that go on in Chicago (voting the dead, etc.).

I can hook you up with an insightful blogger if it's you who ends up in Chicago. :-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-09-18 1:36:12 PM|| 2004-09-18 1:36:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Barbara, with Mr Hastings in charge, not likely.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-18 1:46:58 PM|| 2004-09-18 1:46:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Too bad, TGA.

But if you get an opportunity to come to the States, you can be sure you'd never have to buy drinks! :-p

Hell, if you get to Richmond, I'll be glad to put you up myself so you won't have to waste money on a hotel.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-09-18 2:41:06 PM|| 2004-09-18 2:41:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Barbara, thank you so much for the invitation!
Actually think Bush will win rather easily come November. Not a landslide, but I think we won't get a cliffhanger, so all that observation nonsense won't amount to much.
And I really don't need the OECD for a free U.S. trip.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-18 3:09:52 PM|| 2004-09-18 3:09:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#16

And I really don't need the OECD for a free U.S. trip.

Well, hell, TGA honey, then come oooonnnn down!

(bad TV game show reference) ;-)

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-09-18 3:55:17 PM|| 2004-09-18 3:55:17 PM|| Front Page Top

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