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2004-04-15 Africa: Subsaharan

South Africa: Democracy out, Marxists in

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Posted by Unmutual 2004-04-15 10:03:17 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 We should use this as a reminder to ourselves that there are plenty of dead and brain-dead people who will be voting in Nov. With this type of assistance, the Teamsters just might be able to squeak in another JFK!

Just because Kerry can't do it the good ol' fashion democratic way, doesn't mean he can't do it.

Posted by B 2004-04-15 10:16:14 AM|| 2004-04-15 10:16:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Two thoughts: (1) I didn't think South Africa could accelerate their race into the third world. I was wrong, they found a way. (2) When Marxism makes everything far worse, how will they spin it to blame the west?

There is a good chance that a huge mistake that has zero connections to the outside world could be good for South Africa in the long run as it may force them to actually take responsibility for their actions past, present, and future. With responsibility comes the first steps of civilization rather than the veneer left behind by the Europeans.

Posted by ruprecht 2004-04-15 11:23:17 AM|| 2004-04-15 11:23:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 ruprecht - good point. Let's just hope that it doesn't take thousands of years to get there.

Posted by B 2004-04-15 11:49:46 AM|| 2004-04-15 11:49:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 My only problem with the current vote in South Africa are the couple of dozen good friends I have in that country that now have every reason to HAVE to leave, and no place to go... Guess I'd better start issuing some invitations. I suggest that if any of you have any connections there with anyone who isn't a member of the ANC, encourage them to leave while they still can. It's going to get even darker in the bottom half of the "dark continent".

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-04-15 12:00:18 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-04-15 12:00:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 IIUC Mbeki has NOT been following Marxist policies since his first election in 1999(?).
Mandela DID lead South Africa through a multiparty election, and established a state that follows legal norms, including property rights. This is South Africas third multiparty election since the end of apartheid.

Now it is possible that Mbeki aims at one party state - not ALL one party states are Marxist, for crying out loud. And if I were South African I would not vote for him - his statements on HIV have been shear foolishness, and the ANC has failed to deal with crime, and has been less than successful on economic development.

BTW, the New National Party, the heir to the old apartheid National Party, has reinvented itself as a party for the mixed race in the Western Cape, and is in alliance with the ANC. The real opposition to the ANC comes from the Democratic Alliance, the heir to the old white liberal opposition, and from various black parties.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-15 12:41:47 PM|| 2004-04-15 12:41:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 From the Guardian, with about 60% of the ballots counted: ANC, ~ 70%, Democratic Alliance, ~ 14%, New National Party, ~ 2%. I assume the balance is split amongst all the other parties in the election.

Mandela (IMHO) was a genuinely decent man who managed to keep SA from exploding. Mbeki is sort of a goof, but he's managed to keep the country moving forward well enough. I think the internal divisions of the ANC are such that he can't get off the reservation but so far. Moving SA to a one-party state (Red or otherwise, as LH notes) would be a really bad idea, as it would ruin the new reputation SA has built as a regional power-broker. And Mbeki has enough to do with AIDS, the economy, unemployment, etc.

I have some reasonable hopes for SA based on what they've managed to avoid in the time since the end of apartheid. Past return is no guarantee of future performance, of course.

Posted by Steve White 2004-04-15 2:45:53 PM|| 2004-04-15 2:45:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Well it looks like 70% of South Africans are stupid. So they've elected a Marxist government once again. Well, that's unfortunate. I've got no problem with their choice, as long as they're allowed to vote again in four years (or whatever the election cycle time period is in S.A.). If the A.N.C. somehow takes away free elections, then they join the shit list along with other Marxist paradises like Cuba. But as long as they continue to hold free and fair elections, it's okay with me (I don't have to live there)

Posted by Kentucky Beef 2004-04-15 3:24:03 PM|| 2004-04-15 3:24:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I think the internal divisions of the ANC are such that he can't get off the reservation but so far

My impression is that Mbeki, at least a couple of years ago, was contemplating using Black power rhetoric to move the ANC away from Marxism. See the leading white elements within the ANC are the old South African Communist Party - by emphasizing black power he both maintains legitimacy while moving away from socialism, and undercuts the element in the ANC most hostile to a capitalist line. SA is different from Zimababwe in this respect - AFAIK Rhodesia had no white leftist element equivalent to South African Communists.

OTOH Im not sure what the status of this is recently. It does point out that the mess in Zimbabwe is by its nature VERY dangerous to SA democracy - Mbeki cant go with the opposition to Mugabe without endangering much of his base, but if he supports Mugabe he looks dangerously undemocractic, and may radicalize his own opposition - especially Buthelezi.

Good news - Democratic Alliance has continued its rise, and the hacks of the NNP seem to be in terminal decline.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-04-15 4:54:04 PM|| 2004-04-15 4:54:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 SOB! Now you tell me. Past return is no guarantee of future performance, of course.

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-15 7:24:22 PM|| 2004-04-15 7:24:22 PM|| Front Page Top

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