At least 80 wealthy liberals have pledged to contribute at least $1 million each to fund a network of think tanks and advocacy groups, to compete with the potent conservative infrastructure built up during the last three decades.
The money will be channeled through a new partnership called the Democracy Alliance, founded last spring in a series of liberal initiatives as the Democratic Party and its allies struggle with the loss of power in Congress and the White House. Many influential Democratic contributors were left angry and despairing about the party's poor showing in last year's elections, and are looking for more effective ways to invest their support.
Financial commitments totaling at least $80 million in the next five years at a time when some other liberal groups, such as the George Soros-backed America Coming Together, are floundering â suggest the Democracy Alliance is becoming a player in the long-term effort to reinvigorate the left. The group has a goal of raising $200 million, a sum that would inevitably come partly at the expense of more traditional Democratic groups... The big question is whether they will fritter away the money, spend the money to discover winning issues, or will they just use it to come up with "how can we fool 'em now?" election strategies? My guess is the election strategies, which won't work, followed by squandering the rest of the money.
#1
Echo chambers for lefty academics. The left, given its firm control of US media and academia, already has an infrastructure orders of magnitude larger than anything to which conservatives can lay claim. These won't even be noticed.
#2
If they can't get the message across with the NEA, colleges. universities, MSM, NPR and CPB, how do they think a measley $80 million on think tanks will change anybody's mind?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 19:51
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#3
Somehow "Democratic think tank" seems like an oxymoron.
#4
The only thing the Democrats can say they accomplished is Civil Rights. 2b and I had a discussion a few days ago about this. It is my firm belief that if not for the Liberal Democrats bucking the "conservative" Democrats and the Republicans in the '60s the Civil Rights legislation would not have occured. Kennedy's "Ask Not" speech and his later "Place a Man on the Moon' speech were the apex of the Democratic Party. The only thing the SOB Lyndon Johnson ever did was the Civil Rights legislation. He lied us into a greater involvement in Vietnam and the Democrats went downhill fast from there. The had greatness in their grasp and threw it away.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/07/2005 21:04
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#5
Let them throw good money after bad. Then they won't have it for later.
#6
At least 80 wealthy liberals have pledged to contribute at least $1 million each
Wonder how many earned their money and not through currancy speculation, but hard work [i.e. The Governator]. For how many is it just unearned leftovers from the real capital creators.
#7
When all is said and done they will still revert back back to the writings of Marx for guidance first. Then will still go back to the same old class envy and racist rhetoric. They can't help themselves. The Dems look like a tired rusty antique. How many more socailist/marxist societies need to fail before they get any reasonable clue. ... what would noam chomsky do....
CRAWFORD, Texas â The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who is holding a roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch shares the same grief as relatives mourning the deaths of Ohio Marines, yet their views about the war differ.
"I'm angry. I want the troops home," Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., who staged a protest that she vowed on Sunday to continue until she can personally ask Bush: "Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?"
You had best stop wallowing in his blood to make political points if you care a dman thing about what your son the Marine sood for and went over there for. As for why he went there - Go look at Cherenkovs site. Plus, he was a Marine, and fighting is what Marines do when the US is at war.
People like this need to be slapped back into reality.
Sheehan was among grieving military families who met with Bush in June 2004 at Fort Lewis, near Seattle, Wash. That was just two months after her son, Casey, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004... Sheehan, who formed a group called Gold Star Families For Peace ... has spoken out against the war across the nation
She's been wallowing in her son's blood to make political points for over a year. DESPICABLE!
I wish I could go down there and confront her and maybe wise her up to how slimy her act is.
Lady, I buried 2 teenaged kids last year that I have known since they were cub scouts. They were fantasic young men - the sort that this nation need in the future to lead it. But their lives were cut short doing what they signed up to do: fighting in war as a US Marine, for the nation. I do not dishonor them by trying to make political ahy off their deaths.
Wars mean people die. You need to f**king grow up and realize that the world is a dangerous place, and its not a fair place. Peopel who do not deserve to die, do die in a war. Ask the families of flight 83 or the Twin Towers people. Ask any servicemember.
Death in war is a fact, and thats one of the things EVERYONE that volunteers to serve has in mind: that your life might be taken for a greater cause. The unfortunate aspect of this particular war is the best ones like your son are out there while dregs like you and your liberal friends try to drag the nation down behind them.
I felt immense sorrow when I heard of each of those young Marines I knew had died. I cried. One of them was a kid who my son looked up to, and whom we went scouting and camping with. It still hurts today. But rather than lash out at people and dishonoring their memory, I simply pray for the rest of their souls, and do everything I can to try to win this thing, so there will be no need for us to be over there any longer - and a free and open Iraq is a very important achevement in changing the socities of Islam that produced the terrorists who started this war on us back on 9/11 and before.
Your actions guarantee more death, more destruction, and a cowardly & craven retreat from the world that will draw islamo-fascism inside our borders again and produce more 9/11's - or worse yet, the grind that ISrael faces with bombs and gunmen in all corners of their nation.
You need to wake the hell up, look at the world as it is, be proud of your Marine who was doing what he signed up to do when he died, and look more how to solve things by truly supporting the troops instead of rolling in your dead son's blood to make a political show.
You're merely another whiney assed member of the "Me" generation - spoiled brat, you're only concerned with your politics and how things affect you (as evidenced by your quote that Bush "ruined your life"). You need to sit down, shut up, learn that the world is not fair and that life sometimes is a big shit sandwich, and finally grow up. You're 48, you have no excuses left.
I'm not. I only wonder where such men as her son come from and what they will have to say at the time of their eternal reunion.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 19:47
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#4
Think he signed up in part as a way to show her that she was a total assclown? I have a feeling this pinhead woman was like this before his tragic death. A death thats tragic because he was the kind of person that make this counrty great and we need him yet. Totally unlike his mother who is a person we can do without.
#5
Yup. Still makes me wonder if she knew his father's name.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 20:32
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#6
Vacaville is a stones throw from Berkley and all the other polution that infects our country. I wonder ehy they (MSM) bother giving her ink knowing that Bush will never answer her idiotic question. Never mind I answered my own question.
#7
That nutty old broad needs to take her Paxil, and shut up. It is delusional to say that the Prez was "jovial" when he had a private meeting with family who sufferd service deaths. Drudge just played a recording of the old burka-envious b***h talking on the Clinton News Network ranting bullshit about how Bush misbehaved. I hope some of the other families come forward, and call her on her lies.
#8
Now Drudge is reading from an interview from right after the meeting with the Prez June 24, 2004, where she said Bush was sincere, and sympathetic, and "a man of faith".
Today's NY Times carries an article asking where all the heroes are from the Iraqi War.
Well, from August 71-14, they'll be at my blog. I've been maintaining a web site called AMERICAN HEROES for some time, highlighting the America's heroes in the War on Terror. All this week I'll be posting some of these stories on my blog, along with others that I haven't added to the site yet.
Read about Rick Rescorla, hero of Vietnam, and hero again as he saved thousands of his co-workers during the horrific events of 9/11. And he sang, doing it.
Read about Mark Mitchell. He borrowed a turban to scale a prison wall to rescure a CIA officer in Afghanistan.
Teresa Broadwell is a small woman. But standing on tip toe, she managed to use her weapon to hold off an ambush until help arrived.
Leigh Ann Hester, manager of a small shoe store, charged entrenched enemy with her squad leader, and the two of them killed or routed a determined enemy.
Unfortunately, far too many of these stories exist only in military press releases. This week I hope to show as many people as I can what heroes we have defending us.
#1
Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of the 617th Military Police Company, a National Guard unit out of Richmond, Ky., received the Silver Star, along with two other members of her unit, Staff Sgt. Timothy Nein and Spc. Jason Mike, for their actions during an enemy ambush on their convoy. Other members of the unit also received awards.
Hester's squad was shadowing a supply convoy March 20 when anti-Iraqi fighters ambushed the convoy. The squad moved to the side of the road, flanking the insurgents and cutting off their escape route. Hester led her team through the "kill zone" and into a flanking position, where she assaulted a trench line with grenades and M203 grenade-launcher rounds. She and Nein, her squad leader, then cleared two trenches, at which time she killed three insurgents with her rifle.
When the fight was over, 27 insurgents were dead, six were wounded, and one was captured.
Hester, 23, who was born in Bowling Green, Ky., and later moved to Nashville, Tenn., said she was surprised when she heard she was being considered for the Silver Star.
"I'm honored to even be considered, much less awarded, the medal," she said.
Being the first woman soldier since World War II to receive the medal is significant to Hester. But, she said, she doesn't dwell on the fact. "It really doesn't have anything to do with being a female," she said. "It's about the duties I performed that day as a soldier."
Yes, Sergeant... You kicked some serious butt...
Thanks!
EFL
A new range of bombs more sophisticated than those being deployed with murderous impact against American forces in Iraq has been designed in neighbouring Iran and smuggled across the border to insurgent groups, according to American military and intelligence officials. The new devices have been manufactured to destroy military vehicles by using shaped charges that target the armour in a specific direction. Most improvised explosive devices (IEDs) made from stockpiles of Iraqi missiles and shells have previously relied simply on their firepower rather than a targeting mechanism. American commanders fear that Iraqi bomb-makers will soon learn how to make the weapons.
Insurgents started to use the devices about two months ago, but last week a big shipment was captured in north-eastern Iraq as they were being shipped in from Iran. Pentagon officials say they have no evidence of Iranian government involvement, but America has regularly complained that Teheran is interfering in Iraqi affairs and that fighters and weaponry are being smuggled across the border. "The devices we're seeing now have been machined. There is evidence of some sophistication," a military official told The New York Times. Another senior officer said: "These are among the most sophisticated and most lethal devices we've seen. It's very serious." Sounds like another good casus bellum to me
#3
As much as I would love to see Iran get what they have coming to them, it just isn't happening. I don't know why our leaders continue to act like pussies when it comes to Iran, and Saudi Arabia. We are putting ZERO pressure on Iran to do anything other than aid terrorist scum, and build nukes, in front of our face. We know we can't count on the UN, we know we can't count on the EU, and we certainly know we can't count on the mythical "moderate" muslim to appear and stop them...what in the hell are we waiting for? How many more IEDs, how much more cash, and how many more terrorists have to be sent into Iraq from the neighboring shitholes, before we actually kick the doors in on these diaper heads? I'm not saying pull out of Iraq, because those ungrateful bitches would last about 2 weeks, before being toppled by the enemy. But at the very least, and I mean very least, decapitate one of the neighboring governments that allow this shit to continue. Do something to fight back. If it wasn't for our brave warriors that continue to look these terrorists in the eye and pull the trigger everyday, I would think we are on the road to becoming France-lite. God Bless those Men and Women.
If I didn't live in a country that actually enforced the law, I would start chopping these diaper heads up myself. Eventually the freedom loving people of this world are going to be pushed far enough to say "fuck this shit", and start taking matters into their own hands.
#4
Destro - our advice may not reach others, yet I feel most Americans would need little pumping up (clips of hostages and Carter dithering) to get the back up on smacking Iran. Causus Belli?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 18:25
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#5
So, if they're factory made I guess we can stop calling them "improvised". That's a dangerous game the Mad Mullah's are playing and I hope they bare the consequences.
#6
I assume we've got quite a few technical "casus bellum" with Iran, just as we did with Iraq. They don't seem to have a lot of popular reverb, though. Of course, I work in Madison, which isn't exactly a hotbed of patriotism.
And I'm not expert enough to know if we actually can afford to take Iran on just yet. Sure we can pull troops in from Korea and other spots, but can we equip them without sacrificing our position in Iraq? Are any of our experts on the subject allowed to comment? Are lots of special forces being trained in farsi?
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 20:31
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ITHACA - Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-22) attacked the Bush administration on Saturday, accusing it of trying to scare people within the government and among the population at large in order to garner support for the war in Iraq. Population at large is a fact without corroboration. it is therefore not a fact and worthless as an element in news.
âThe administration had, I think, a clear understanding that they could not sustain themselves, and would not be elected for a second term, based on their domestic actions and activities,â Hinchey said in a public forum held at Ithaca Town Hall on Tioga Street. Approximately 60 people attended the forum. That's pretty funny, Maury, considering the left came at Bush hard about the war to the exclusion of all other issues in 2004.
âYou can't do all of (those actions) and get re-elected,â Hinchey said. âThe only way that you can do all that and get reelected is hiding behind the smokescreen of war.â Which the left viciously attacked starting a full year earlier.
Drawing applause several times, Hinchey outlined his case that the Bush administration manipulated parts of the government, including the Central Intelligence Agency, to help justify the war in Iraq. We've been over this. There was no manipulation of information.
He added that Congress has not done its job in checking the White House. Which means the good folks at Ithica should consider a conservative candidate for 2006.
âThe Congress of the United States should be doing a big investigation of what went on there and what did not go on there, and the motivation behind it. This Congress is not fulfilling its responsibility. This is a very bad Congress,â he said. Replace bad with republican congress.
After his speech, which lasted just over half an hour, Hinchey opened the floor to questions from the audience. He was asked what he felt was the greatest hope for the future. This is the news in this story. A campaign by winning the house in 2006, in order to impeach Bush. Hate Bush didn't win anything in 2004, what makes them think it will be better in 2006?
âMy greatest hope is that all of these things will be revealed, they will be revealed in a very direct and legal context, and that in 2006 a Democratic majority will be elected to the House of Representatives, and in February of 2006 impeachment proceedings will begin.â
The applause lasted almost half a minute. The writer was really happy about that part.
Hinchey underscored his belief that the government is employing scare tactics by offering an explanation as to why they would do so.
âFrom the most primitive tribal society to the most developed, largest, sophisticated societies, such as ours and others, there have only been two ways to govern. One is by consent, the other is by fear. And if you can't govern by consent, you create fear. That's what this administration has done. They could never govern by consent,â he said. > Did I miss something? Three elections in a row? And that's not governing by consent? This argument implies we really aren't at war; that the war we are in is because of Bush's perfidy and the solution is a leftist congress.
Central to Hinchey's argument were the Downing Street memos - documents leaked from the British government - and allegations that Bush's senior advisor Karl Rove illegally leaked the name of CIA operative Valerie Plame, wife of former U.N. ambassador Joseph Wilson IV.
Hinchey said the Downing Street memos, the most famous of which is a recording of the minutes of a meeting within the British government on July 23, 2002, indicate that the Bush administration had already determined to declare war on Iraq and If that is what the memoes show then it was about goddam time we removed Saddam
âThey revealed how the Bush administration was trying to make arguments to justify the war in Iraq, going back even into late 2001 and early into 2002; how they were straining to create some form of relationship between Iraq and the attacks of Sept. 11, but unable to do so - the memos say essentially that,â Hinchey said. The Iraq war has long since been vindicated by subsequent events such as the active support by Iranian and the presence of Al Qaeda. Guess the writer didn't get the memo.
Building up his argument that the administration was predetermined to justify its actions in Iraq, Hinchey speculated as to the motivation behind the leak of Plame's name, which was reported in a July 14, 2003 column by Robert Novak.
Although U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald is leading an investigation into who leaked her name and why, it is widely speculated that Rove was the source. On Saturday, Hinchey summarized one of the theories explaining the motivation behind the leak. You can tell this writer did really well in rhetoric class, a very, very popular class taught in all the best iniversities. "Widely speculated" is a fact without corroboration,, a delicious piece of propaganda for mass consumption. Were I the editor of this rag I would have sent this reporter packing within minutes of filing this story, for even thinking of using this dishonest rhetoric.
Four. 2005 special election for 2nd District of Ohio. Donks went all-out, and came close, but their candidate had to wrap himself in Bush's picture and never, ever, ever talk about his honest position on the war.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/07/2005 16:25
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#2
2006 is gonna be a sad, sad year for the donks.
#9
âMy greatest hope is that all of these things will be revealed, they will be revealed in a very direct and legal context, and that in 2006 a Democratic majority will be elected to the House of Representatives, and in February of 2006 impeachment proceedings will begin.â
My question would be then: Why are you frothing at the mouth right now? And :Did your have all your necesary shots?
#1
I guess I'm just not seeing how this will promote a peaceful end. I don't see the Palies giving up anything, and they certainly haven't had any control over the extreme groups still killing Israeli's. I think they secretly applaud it. I feel bad that putting their country in higher state of danger to satisfy the UN and others is a bad choice.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 18:19
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#2
Once the Israelis are out of Gaza, they are no longer an 'occupying power', which changes the rules.
Should the Paleos start launching things over the fence, the Israelis will launch heavy attacks.
#4
Once the Israelis are out of Gaza, they are no longer an 'occupying power', which changes the rules.
Not for Israel, they don't. Lebanon is a prime example -- they pulled back to the UN-declared lines, and the terrs decided that wasn't quite enough.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/07/2005 19:42
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#5
I get the impression that the pullback was not intended to "promote a peaceful end," but make their territory more defensible during the inevitable battles to come.
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 20:48
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#6
Less ground to cover? I understand the principle, but ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
08/07/2005 23:04
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Oh, sure, you can scoff. But evidently the system's already being test-piloted in Howard Dean's Democratic Party. That's why the Dems' Congressional Campaign Committee hailed their electoral failure in last week's Ohio special election as a triumphant "deferred success." As their press release put it:
"In nearly the biggest political upset in recent history, Democrat Paul Hackett came within just a few thousand votes of defeating Republican Jean Schmidt in Ohio's Second Congressional District."
Yes, indeed. It was "nearly the biggest political upset in recent history," which is another way of saying it was actually the smallest political non-upset in recent history. Hackett was like a fast-forward rerun of the Kerry campaign. He was a veteran of the Iraq war, but he was anti-war, but he made solemn dignified patriotic commercials featuring respectful footage of President Bush and artfully neglecting to mention the candidate was a Democrat, but in livelier campaign venues he dismissed Bush as a "sonofabitch" and a "chicken hawk" who was "un-American" for questioning his patriotism.
And as usual this nearly winning strategy lost yet again -- this time to a weak Republican candidate with a lot of problematic baggage. Insofar as I understand it, the official Democratic narrative is that Bush is a moron who's nevertheless managed to steal two elections. Big deal. Up against this crowd, that's looking like petty larceny. After the Ohio vote, Dem pollster Stan Greenberg declared that "one of the biggest doubts about Democrats is that they don't stand for anything." That might have passed muster two years ago. Alas, the party's real problem is that increasingly there's no doubt whatsoever about it.
Fortunately, the Dems have found a new line of attack to counter the evil election-stealing moron. A few days ago, the Democratic National Committee put out a press release attacking Bush for being physically fit. It seems his physical fitness comes at the expense of the nation's lardbutt youth. Or as the DNC put it:
"While President Bush has made physical fitness a personal priority, his cuts to education funding have forced schools to roll back physical education classes and his administration's efforts to undermine Title IX sports programs have threatened thousands of women's college sports programs."
Wow. I noticed my gal had put on a few pounds but I had no idea it was Bush's fault. That sonofabitch chicken hawk. Just for the record, "his cuts to education funding" are cuts only in the sense that Hackett's performance in the Ohio election was a tremendous victory: that's to say, Bush's "cuts to education funding" are in fact an increase of roughly 50 percent in federal education funding.
Some of us wish he had cut education funding. By any rational measure, a good third of public school expenditures are completely wasted. But instead it's skyrocketed. And the idea that Bush is heartlessly pursuing an elite leisure activity denied to millions of American schoolchildren takes a bit of swallowing given that his preferred fitness activity is running. "Running" requires two things: you and ground. Short of buying every schoolkid some John Kerry thousand-dollar electric-yellow buttock-hugging lycra singlet, it's hard to see what there is about "running" that requires increasing federal funding.
Perhaps America could have a Running Czar or a National Commission on Running that would report back on the need for a Cabinet-level Runner-General. Perhaps Title IX needs to be expanded to provide a federal sneaker subsidy: a woman's right to shoes.
But I don't think so. Sitting behind yet another Vermont granolamobile bearing the bumper sticker "Bush Scares Me," I found myself thinking that perhaps the easiest way to reduce childhood obesity in American families might just to be to shout out, "Look! There's big scary Bush! Run! Run for your lives! No, wait, there's John Bolton, too! Better cut through the park before he puts his hands on his hips in an aggressive manner!" Indeed, when yesterday's coming man John Edwards dusts off his "Two Americas" stump speech -- the one with the heartwarming Dickensian vignette about the shivering girl whose parents can't afford to buy her a winter coat ($9.99 brand new from Wal-Mart) -- he might want to add a section about how an easy way for shivering coatless girls to keep warm is to run around the block a couple of times.
Speaking of shivering coatless girls in Bush's America, spare a thought for the underprivileged urchins of the Bronx. The Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club, a nonprofit social-services organization in New York, receives millions of dollars in government funds to give disadvantaged youth in poor neighborhoods a leg up the ladder of life. But mysteriously much of the money wound up being diverted to the coffers of Air America, the liberal talk-radio network whose ratings are yet another example of "deferred success." The needs of disadvantaged Al Franken and his pals apparently outweigh those of Bronx welfare recipients. Perhaps Janeane Garofalo is the coatless girl John Edwards was talking about all those months. Air America looks like the broadcast version of the U.N. Oil-for-Food program, whereby money earmarked to save starving moppets somehow winds up in the bank accounts of bloated self-described do-gooders with political connections.
The DNC's Bush-is-the-reason-your-kid-is-fat press release is a convenient precis of the party's problem: While he runs rings around them, the Dems lounge about getting flabbier by the week and telling themselves it's all his fault they can barely move except to complain about Bush's Supreme Court nominee's kid being overly cute. What's the betting for 2006? The Dems will have a few more "nearly the biggest political upsets," while the Republicans will have the actual political upsets -- a couple more Senate seats? Including Robert C. Byrd's venerable perch in West Virginia?
Republicans may see the increasingly arthritic, corpulent, wheezing, flatulent Democratic Party as a boon for them, but I don't. Two-party systems need two parties, not just for the health of the loser but for that of the winner, too. Intellectually, philosophically, legislatively, it's hard to maintain the discipline to keep yourself in shape when the other guy just lies around the house all day.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005
13:48 ||
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"Two-party systems need two parties, not just for the health of the loser but for that of the winner, too."
Man!! Everything is social, social, social with these people. Research doesn't show that when the Demons were in power, that there was "a spirit of cooperation" with the Right. Whatabunchof Hypocrites!!
#4
hypocrites is too kind. Ideological thieves is more accurate
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 17:39
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#5
I am reminded when the republican party about hit bottom, around 1964. It seemed like their entire leadership were embracing things like "Impeach Earl Warren", the John Birch Society, the anti-flouridation league. Goldwater looked moderate to liberal to them. While the radicals owned the party apparatus, the moderates quietly began making friends with democrat conservatives. Finally, Nixon came forth and swamped the ultra conservatives, and broke their power for good.
#8
SPOD, help is on the way. They are trying to get the redistricting plan back on the ballot and if they do the Dems will be heading for the hills (or many Oregon). Yes things look dark now, but I am hopeful. BTW I loved this article, hit on all th right notes and heres to hoping for a bunch of close loses for the DNC in 2006.
#9
Not just CA SPOD, many states are experiencing a fairly decisive split beween moderate Republicans and the far right with the effect of boosting otherwise weak Democrats. E.g., my home state which should be a conservative bastion by any measure (Bush won in '04 by 25 points and carried over 98% of all counties) recently elected a Democratic governor.
Trouble there is that the far right has taken control of the local party apparatus and has only 2 litmus tests for their candidates, they must: 1. be absolutely opposed to all abortion and be willing to do whatever they can to impede the ability of anyone to have or perform abortions, and 2. work to replace the teaching of evolution with creation in schools. The net result is that staggerinly unqualified candidates (e.g., the last Republican candidate for governor who handed the win to the Dems, or the recently elected Republican attorney general whose law license has been suspended by the state bar for many years) end up on the Republican ticket.
I'm not so sure that our enjoyment of the Donks' suffering at the hands of their radical wing isn't premature. To me, current politics looks a lot like a race to the bottom with the religious right and the moonbat left both racing to destroy their respective parties. I'm not at all certain which of them is going to succeed first.
Residents of Delhi who dream of being cowboys are about to get the chance in real life. Under a bizarre new scheme to round up the city's stray cattle, the Delhi High Court is offering a cash reward for anyone who brings a bovine to book.
Finally, the Delhi High Court has lost patience with the city authorities, ordering rewards of 2,000 rupees (£26) for every cow that is caught. The Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) must pay the reward out of its own coffers, and recoup the expense by auctioning the captured cows.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005
12:29 ||
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#1
This is more CYA than anything else. If you get the local Hindus citizens to do this, then the city politicians don't have to fear an uprising. It will interesting to see if people pick money over religion. I think satisfying hunger pains may take precedence over saving religious cows.
#2
2000 rupees or 47 US dollars is a hell of a lot of money in India.
From another article
Saurabh Swarup, a student of B Com (pass) in Bhagat Singh College, said that he saw it as a way to earn some pocket money.
Rajesh Kumar, a technician, said that he earned Rs 2,500 after slogging at his garage for a month and was now preparing to catch cows for some quick money.
Justice Kaul had said that he himself counted 16 cows while driving on the road from Lady Sri Ram College to East of Kailash in the heart of the city.
Piqued over MCD's failure to remove stray cattle from the Capital, the court had yesterday asked the civic body's South Zone Deputy Commissioner Ajay Kumar to appear before it today.
The court directed Kumar, Veterinary Officer Dr Pradeep and two Veterinary Inspectors to launch an intensive campaign against stray cattle in South Zone.
If there was no visible change in the situation, these officers would be personally held responsible, the Bench said while fixing August 17 for further hearing.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:12
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Link
Cows on army trucks, cows chased by tempo, cows at the end of ropes held by triumphant students in torn clothes.
For a day, posh south Delhi turned Wild West for fortune hunters after the high court ordered that the civic authorities must pay Rs 2,000 to any citizen who caught a stray cow on a street.
From college student to soldier, bus driver to middle-class office-goer â they all seemed to have taken the day off to turn cowboy on Friday. Stick and lasso in hand, they fearlessly chased the horned beasts through the streets and wrestled them down with spirit.
The lone corporation pound for south Delhi at Malviya Nagar, which can hold only 50 cows, nearly witnessed a riot as cattle-catchers from all over converged to deposit their stray cows and bulls.
But the great capital cattle rush lasted only a single day and traffic to the pound was down to a trickle this morning.
The reason: the city fathers would not hand the catchers the cash they wanted but only a receipt.
âShow me the money,â cried Khalid, a B.Sc student at Aurobindo College, who had caught a cow at Malviya Nagar on Friday. He had torn his trousers and lost his slippers in the effort. He now wanted hard cash, not a scrap of paper with something scribbled on it.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:15
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#4
A CASH reward on the heads of New Delhi's stray cows has sparked road chaos in the Indian capital as bounty hunters on motorbikes compete to round up the cattle.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:16
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#9
Back home we started using 3 wheelers to round up the cattle. Horses were okay but as a teenager the 3 wheelers were alot more fun. Riding over the big dirt clogs proved very interesting and we just had alot of fun at it. Hmmm, crazy times, poor cows. Me thinks they won't have any rodeo or a Cheyenne Frontier Days, too bad.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 18:05
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#10
My horse , Apache, is great with cattle. He is 16.2 hands tall, weighs 1380 pounds, beat the Virginia speed racing champion in 3 straight 1/4 mile races and Shipman says he is going to steal him. It wouldn't be too hard, he will go off with anyone.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/07/2005 20:30
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#11
Unfortunately, all our experienced people are too old or deceased...
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/07/2005 20:41
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He is gorgeous, Deacon Blues! I won't show the trailing daughters -- they got back yesterday from a week at the YMCA riding camp, just bubbling over from the experience of learning to trot (and muck out the stalls).
Islamist extremists who have voiced support for terrorism since the bomb attacks in London on July 7 could face charges of treason, it has been confirmed. Attorney General Lord Goldsmith and Director of Public Prosecutions Ken Macdonald have discussed possible action that could be taken against three prominent clerics who have appeared on TV in recent days.
The Crown Prosecution Service's head of anti-terrorism will meet senior officers at Scotland Yard within the next few days to discuss possible charges against Omar Bakri Mohammed, Abu Izzadeen and Abu Uzair, the Attorney-General's Office confirmed. It is possible that prosecutors could also seek access to tapes made by an undercover Sunday Times reporter who reportedly recorded members of the radical Saviour Sect praising the bombers who killed themselves and 52 innocent people on July 7 as "the fantastic four".
Possible charges which will be considered include the common law offences of treason, incitement to treason, solicitation of murder and incitement to withhold information known to be of use to police.
Spokesmen for radical Islamist groups are generally careful during media interviews to avoid saying anything which might suggest they approve of violent attacks in the UK. But several have indicated that they regard the use of terror tactics such as suicide bombing acceptable in Iraq or Afghanistan, where local Muslims may feel themselves under threat from occupying forces - including British troops.
Respect MP George Galloway has risked sparking controversy by referring to insurgents fighting British and American troops in Iraq as "heroic". Mr Galloway told the Sunday Herald: "I think the decision the Iraqis have made to resist foreign occupation is a heroic decision. The individual acts carried out by people in the name of resistance may or may not be heroic. Some are undoubtedly heroic. The storming of a military barracks of a more powerful adversary in a classic guerrilla warfare operation is undoubtedly heroic." But he went on: "The bombing of children taking sweeties from an American soldier is clearly not heroic."
Mr Galloway was last week accused by political opponents of risking British troops' lives after going on TV in the Middle East to hail the Iraqi "resistance" for "defending all the people of the world against American hegemony".
Will Islamic Extremist Galloway be one of the first traitors to answer for his crimes?!!
#1
Pity that the UK abolished the death penalty completely in 1998.
Prior to this, it was still the penalty for treason.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 12:21
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#2
Meanwhile, here in the US, Jane Fonda has announced a new bus tour.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/07/2005 13:45
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This is yet another stro,g reason for me hating to live in the wrong side of the pool. I would loooove to go to a Jane Fonda meetings with banners reading "After Vietnamese and Cambodain blood Jane Fonda is thirsty of Iraki blood"; "Jane genocider Fonda", "Jane friend of bin Laden, Saddma and Pol Pot"
#6
Galloway cheers as the hros maim more innocent Iraqis.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/07/2005 16:42
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Treason? That's gonna make the leftys shriek!
Spittle-fest due in 5..4...3....2
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 16:53
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#8
The charges may be laid, facts presented, prosecuted in the law courts and, the Judges may let them walk free. These are UK judges after all. Many of them suffer from BDS just as in this country. Too many TRANZIs on the bench.
That is why treason charges are almost never brought anymore, even when it's obvious.
India choose KPS Gill, a ruthless Sikh Policeman, to deal with the Khalastani terrorist movement in the 1980's. He broke the back of Sikh militancy. His police did what the Indian army could not do. This article is a whine from a human rights activist. It is a sobering look at what is necessary to crush militancy.
Human rights activists allege the police picked up thousands of young menâsome confirmed militants, some sympathisers and many innocentsâfrom across the state, killed them in cold blood and despatched them as unidentified corpses to various crematoriums across the state. There were more weighed down in canals and rivers. No one knows how many disappeared in this manner. However, 2,097 illegal cremations, pertaining to just three crematoriums in Amritsar districtâDurgyana Mandir, Municipal Committee and Tarn Taranâhave been confirmed by a CBI investigation.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005
11:36 ||
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These are actually pretty traditional methods for dealing with insurrectionists. He understood the fact that when you have to resort to these methods, the terrorists haven't won - the reality is that they're about to be wiped out. Some innocents will get caught up in the dragnet, but the cancer that the terrorists represent will have been removed from the body politic.
#2
At first the terrorists targetted the families of policemen, in an attempt to dissuade them from action.
Gill's policemen responded by kidnapping the family members of the suspected kidnappers. Some were "vanished". The terrorists soon stopped targetting police families.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:02
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The terrorists soon stopped targetting police families. Takes all the fun out of it doesn't it?
THE head of Australia's nuclear energy agency has called on the owners of an internet satellite program to censor images of the country's only nuclear reactor.
Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation executive director Ian Smith said he would ask internet search engine Google to remove the Lucas Heights reactor from its Google Earth program. The online program combines satellite images with aerial photographs and maps to let users zoom in on almost any building in the world.
While Google Earth "censors" the White House with blocks of colour over the roof and the nearby Treasury Department and Executive Office buildings, anyone with a computer and web connection can use the free program to see aerial shots of sensitive Australian sites such as the Lucas Heights reactor, the secret US spy base at Pine Gap, outside Alice Springs, and Parliament House in Canberra.
The satellite image of the Lucas Heights facility, on a 70ha site 40km southwest of Sydney's CBD, clearly shows the layout of the buildings and carpark.
"We're going to ask Google to take it off," Dr Smith said.
"It doesn't stop somebody who's determined to get the information getting it, but having it on the internet just makes it so much more readily available. We don't want to provide any easy assistance to anyone who wants to interfere with the site."
Dr Smith said the Lucas Heights facility was clearly visible from the road, or from commercial aircraft flying overhead and noted Google's image was about two years out of date.
"The question comes down to, if you put it on the internet, does it go to Pakistan or Afghanistan and make it easy for them?"
Despite the construction of a new reactor and a five-year, $36million security upgrade announced in last year's federal budget, Dr Smith admitted that trespassers could enter the site "if they really want to".
"There's a small area near the middle of the site which is quite secure, but the bulk of our site isn't all that secure," he said.
"We don't have the guarding or the hardware to stop someone from getting in to the site if they really wanted to."
Dr Smith said ANSTO liaised with intelligence agencies to assess threats and met global security standards for storing nuclear materials.
Frenchman Willie Brigitte was deported from Australia in 2003 over an alleged plot to bomb the Lucas Heights reactor, which uses small amounts of uranium to manufacture medicines and for scientific research.
A Google spokeswoman defended the technology, noting the images were six to 18 months old and not detailed enough to zoom in on people. "The same information is available to anyone who flies over or drives by a piece of property," she said.
DigitalGlobe, the US company which sold the Lucas Heights photos to Google, said it did not censor any of its images.
"Although we are very sensitive to the concerns voiced, we are not required to seek permission to image areas around the world," spokesman Chuck Herring said.
Mr Herring said US law banned his company from selling to individuals, organisations or nations - including Iran and Cuba - on the US's "denied party" list. "When we sell it to Google, how they disseminate it over the internet is really up to them," he said.
A spokesman for Attorney-General Philip Ruddock downplayed the security threat posed by web-based imaging. "Australian government security agencies are aware of such sites and the information available on them and factor them into their assessments of threat," he said.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005
11:33 ||
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I don't know if this will do any good as environmentalists have pix on their websites. Those images would still be accessable. And, don't forget about internet archive sites, anything removed today still has up to a 10 year "legacy".
COALITION troops should be withdrawn from Iraq by the end of 2006 to remove one of the biggest provocations for the country's terrorists, a former Australian military chief says.
Peter Cosgrove, who retired as head of the Australian Defence Force in June, has tipped the end of next year as an ideal time for foreign forces, including Australians, to get out of Iraq. "I think we've got to train the Iraqis as quickly as we can and to a point where we take one of the focal points of terrorist motivation away, and that is foreign troops," General Cosgrove said in a candid interview on ABC television's Enough Rope program. "When there is an adequate Iraqi security force, foreign troops leave ... Iraq."
Asked how quickly that should happen, he said: "Well I figure that if we could get that done by the end of 2006 that would be really good."
Australia has 1370 troops in Iraq, including the recent deployment of 450 soldiers to the southern province of Al Muthanna. Prime Minister John Howard has vowed Australian troops will not be withdrawn before their work is finished.
General Cosgrove said Australia is fighting the war against terrorism in "the only way we can" while preserving the maximum amount of civil liberties for the community. "When 9/11 happened we were tackled off ... a high building by terrorists and we were in free fall with them. We can't climb back up," he said. "We can't restore previous to 9/11. We're in a situation now where there is an overt, obvious, manifest phenomenon of global terrorism or networked terrorism." General Cosgrove's son, Phillip, was injured in a bombing while serving with Australian troops in Baghdad.
The former ADF chief, who led an infantry unit in Vietnam, said coalition forces face a very different conflict in Iraq. "Certainly a different sort of a war to the one I was involved in in Vietnam where we were out and hunting through the jungle and all that sort of thing," he said.
"(In Iraq) our soldiers are required to be enormously alert, but passive, so ... there's something unique about what they do which I think is to their great credit."
General Cosgrove cited the American prisoner abuse scandal at Iraq's Abu Ghraib jail as a low point for coalition forces. "I couldn't believe that an element of the US armed forces would be involved in an improper way like that looking after detainees," he said. "I can understand that you don't mollycoddle people who are detained for one reason or another but that's light years away from maltreating them."
Torturing prisoners, he said, is not acceptable in any circumstances. "You don't descend to (that) level. You've lost if you ... maltreat people.
"Whatever we do, whatever we gain from people, we've got to do so in a way which leaves our morality, our integrity intact." Blah blah blah......
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005
11:29 ||
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Article: Torturing prisoners, he said, is not acceptable in any circumstances. "You don't descend to (that) level. You've lost if you ... maltreat people.
I find it amusing how some military figures lean left in order to get some respect from the glitterati. The problem is that the glitterati may respect that individual a little more, but the military is still thought of as the scum of the earth. The fact is that the enemy will only have won when they impose sharia on our home territory and start killing infidels who won't convert. When will we have won? When Muslims start massacring these individuals out of fear that we will start massacring Muslims at large if they don't.
#2
He's not seriously spouting the idiot meme that the presence of coalition troops in Iraq is a reason for terrorism, is he? I follow the parental angst angle - fine, we get it, but that's about the dumbest meme of all - they were terrs before Iraq, they will be terrs ever after. They make up shit for kafr MSM consumption daily and only an MSM dupe could possibly fall for that ancient discredited brainfart. There's no there there.
Sigh. If so, I'm glad he's gone. I hope the fishing (in the Moonbat speaking circuit) is lousy.
It's not about getting it done fast, parent or not - ALL of those people have parents you git, it's about getting it done right - this is Gulf War II for a fucking reason, Pete old boy. Now have some tea and a nice lie-down - and STFU.
JERUSALEM (Aug. 7) - Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu resigned from his post Sunday to protest next week's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and part of the West Bank, a ministry spokesman said.
Netanyahu, seen as Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's biggest political rival within the Likud Party, submitted a letter of resignation during the weekly Cabinet meeting Sunday, said the Finance Ministry spokesman, Eli Yosef. The resignation will take effect within 48 hours.
After Netanyahu submitted his resignation, the Cabinet gave its final approval to the first stage of the Gaza pullout - the dismantling of the isolated Netzarim, Kfar Darom and Morag settlements. The vote was 17-5.
Israel plans to begin removing some 9,000 settlers from their homes, starting in days. All 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank are marked for dismantling.
Netanyahu, a former prime minister and political hard-liner, has long been conflicted over the Gaza withdrawal. He has voted in favor of the pullout in the Cabinet but also tried to torpedo the plan in parliamentary maneuvers.
Netanyahu is expected to challenge Sharon for party leadership ahead of the next election.
The Tel Aviv stock Exchange's Maof index dropped nearly 3 percent within minutes after the resignation was announced. Netanyahu led efforts to streamline the Israeli economy, often adopting harsh measures to implement his austerity plan.
Sunday's Cabinet vote was the first in a series to approve the dismantling of specific settlements.
''It is a difficult, complex but very important process for Israel, but will be implemented as the Cabinet and the Knesset decided,'' Sharon said of the withdrawal.
Opponents of the pullout, scheduled to begin Aug. 15, have been trying to torpedo the plan, holding mass protests, smuggling sympathizers into the condemned settlements and calling on soldiers to disobey orders to evacuate the settlements.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005
11:14 ||
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Excellent move. It's ironic that this announcement is made a day after an indepth interview with the JPost where one of the questions asked to Bibi stated, (I'm paraphrasing) "If you are so strongly against this pullout, why don't you resign?" If you have some time, check out this interview..
I have been against the Gaza pullout from the very beginning. IMHO, this pullout is not going to happen. The God of Israel will not allow it. All the proof I need is below. BTW, the OT is full of statements like the one below. I am not going to hog up Fred's BW with 50 quotes. Also, as you can see below, not even the Israel govt. has the right to split the land of Israel. Believe it or deny it, it's up to you.
Ezekiel 36 "....v.10 The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt....you will never again deprive them of their children. 22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations including Israel U.K., and U.S. will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
#3
I think Hebraic scholars would agree with me that what priests say and what actually happens are two different things. The only resolution for the paradox is that, if there is a God, then he doesn't muss around. He Darwinistically selects who is going to succeed and fail, and then they do so. Repeatedly. Compare al-Qaeda, who say God is on their side, with the US military, who says no such thing. By EVERY indicator, God supports the US military that almost totally ignore him, giving them endless support and encouragement, over those hyper-religious groveling nut jobs who spend much of their lives praying to Him. Now compare this to Israel. God has been working overtime on behalf of Ariel Sharon, allowing him to triumph over dozens of political enemies both inside and outside of Israel. God approves of the wall, in that it has radically reduced the number of bombings within Israel proper. God does NOT like Benjamin Netanyahu, or at least not recently, because over and over again, God makes him look foolish and takes away his political power. And, more than anything else, God really HATES the Palestinians. I mean, really. Just look at them. God treats them like dogs. God does NOT love them. He spends inordinate amounts of time making their leaders cruel, incompetant, greedy, treacherous, deceitful and stupid. And BOY does he punish them with leaders like that. Once again, whether you believe in God or not, several rules apply. Number one: God helps those who help themselves. Number two: God hates those who step in number two. Number three: God likes people who improve and change themselves and their nation for the better; He hates peasants who live in ignorance and superstitition. Number four: God actually prefers that you leave Him alone; He will reward you if you take responsibility for your own life. And, number five: God is obvious; if you think He is subtle, He is not involved.
I disagree with some of your statements. For example, "By EVERY indicator, God supports the US military that almost totally ignore him." One, I do believe there are plenty of strong Christians in the U.S. military. Two, there are millions of people outside the military community that constantly pray for the U.S. Military. There is no way, that the U.S. Military is great as it is, without the millions of Americans praying for them week after week, including a great number of military personnel. Here is an example of what made our military the best..3 pages total
Also, I disagree especially, the part that you wrote "God actually prefers that you leave Him alone" God does not want us to leave him alone, he always wants us to have an active relationship with him.
Again, I am not imposing my views. This Israeli land battle is the Lord's and I side with the Lord. But, I will clearly find what God has in mind, in mid-August. If my opinion is wrong, I have no problem admitting it.
#5
If they want to stay and get slaughtered, let them stay. People who so recklessly risk their wives and children when they don't have to and other plans have been made deserve to be cleasned from the gene pool.
#6
These settlers want all of Israel to focus all of their energy on making sure that they aren't uprooted. Yeah, well your project failed. You lost the battle. Children get blown up in strollers daily and something needs to be done to stop it. Sharon did something and of course it can't please everyone - so he chose a solution that could be made to work for everyone. But these people only care that whatever is done doesn't require any sacrifice from them personlly. It's ok to sacrifice the lives of the army members that keep them safe, and the people blown up on busses because the situation can't be controlled - but the situation isn't pefect - so forget it.
Here's my solution, tell them they can stay, but the walls going up and they are on their own. Then they are no ones problem but their own.
#8
I personally assume that there's continuity between God as Being-to-be-worshipped-and-petitioned, and God as Architect-of-Nature, and proceed like a rigorous Sociologist: I find that God LOVES to get involved, AM, but only when all the i's have been dotted, the t's crossed, and it won't result in someone getting hurt. He's pretty big on consequences, and thus what you may deem "subtlety" is mostly a contentment to let natural cause-and-effect have their course.
God will be "obvious"? Perhaps, but it's no credit to the mule that he needs a two-by-four to the head for you to get his attention when the horse only needs a soft nudge to the sides...
#9
Well, as a non God-believer, I would first like to point out that there are lots of atheists in foxholes. Lots of people may pray for soldiers, and lots of soldiers may pray, but there is zero evidence that prayer, in any way, helps them to win battles and wars, historically or today, save for giving psychological solace. Instead, I would put it down to a culture that encourages the raising of warriors, and a gene pool that produces children equipped to be warriors, along with technology, education, and a national will far greater than their enemies. Now, the typical religious argument in this case would be that God is somehow slacking off right now, but that *in the future*, God will intervene and make the religious people win. That is the argument Islamists use to explain how the entire world will be Islamic by 2050, and when whole brigades of al-Qaeda and Taliban are exterminated, they are receiving a joyous reward in heaven instead of feeding ants as they appear to be doing now. They cite lengthy arcane passages in books written a millenium or two ago, as if they have *any* more relevance to what is happening right now than do cave paintings. Conversely, the opposite argument, that God somehow favors the US military, is just as facetious. No, the US is winning the war because its leaders are highly intelligent, educated and trained; it has the technology to crush the enemy; it has lots of big, strong, smart and fierce soldiers to actually do the fighting; and it also has a national *will*, based on all sorts of philosophies and a healthy dollop of revenge and common sense, to support the war back home. At not time do we need God at all to do any of this, and there is no proof that any invisible space monster intervention is directing the outcome in any way. Sorry, God believers. Keep praying in one hand and spitting in the other and I'll tell you know which one will fill up first.
#10
I like to think that God is behind my every thought, slinkling amonst my synapest causing me to type what I type. Let me tell your a secret, there is a God, AND HE HATES QWERTY KEYBOARDS AND BETTY CROCKERCRATS. Let's us now prey.
#11
I just don't see the Palies being satisfied with only the Gaza strip. I foresee them wanting more and more feeling it is due them under any and all circumstances. Since the Palies aren't very accurate with their bombs, now they will be closer for their targets. I hope the Israeli's build a strong wall.
It's sad to me that instead of the Palies seeing this area of land be given up so that there may be a peaceful settlement between them, they seem to be feeling it's deserved. I don't see a peaceful end to this at all.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 17:35
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Jan - I agree with your conclusion. The evidence of the last ~60 yrs indicates that there will not be peace until one side is wiped out - literally. The wall is great - it has stopped many attacks, I'm sure. But they will adjust and escalate until, once again, they can kill Jews with some regularity. I believe Israel is doing what it can to defend itself -- and clarify for those who aren't willfully blind, that they have done what they can to bring peace. Once they pull out, Gaza will be nothing but concentrated Paleo hatred - no embedded Jews to worry about. That's what we refer to as a target-rich environment. The Paleo killer groups will learn what this means the hard way, I'm sure. Finally, someday the Paleos will attempt to use WMDs. When that attempt occurs, successful or not, one side will, indeed, be wiped out, I'd wager.
On the other hand when confronted with a movement of contemporary imperialism - Islamism wants an empire from the Philippines to Gibraltar - and which is tyrannical, homophobic, misogynist, racist and homicidal to boot, they [the left] feel it is valid because it is against Western culture. It expresses its feelings in a regrettably brutal manner perhaps, but that can't hide its authenticity.
The result of this inversion of principles has been that liberals can't form alliances with the victims of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan or Iraq any more than the Auden generation could form alliances with the victims of Stalinism.
This isn't simply about international relations. Who is going to help the victims of religious intolerance in Britain's immigrant communities? Not the Liberal Democrats, who have never once offered support to liberal and democrats in Iraq. Nor an anti-war left which prefers to embrace a Muslim Association of Britain and Yusuf al-Qaradawi who believe that Muslims who freely decide to change their religion or renounce religion should be executed. If the Archbishop of Canterbury were to suggest the same treatment for renegade Christians all hell would break loose. But as the bigotry comes from 'the other' there is silence.
Perhaps it will break soon. There always was far more disquiet on the left at this 'rightwards lurch' than the Guardian or Radio 4 admitted. If my emails are a guide, the London bombs have added a practical reason for breaking with the consensus: now they're trying to kill us. Even if people think that the Iraq war has made Britain a bigger target, they are still confronted with a fascistic cult of murder and self-murder which allows no compromise.
The thing to watch for with fellow travellers is what shocks them into pulling the emergency cord and jumping off the train. I know some will stay on to the terminus, and when the man with the rucksack explodes his bomb their dying words will be: 'It's not your fault. I blame Tony Blair.'
My advice to my former comrades is to struggle out of your straitjackets and get off at the next station. It would be good to see you on this side of the barrier.
#1
"The result of this inversion of principles has been that liberals can't form alliances with the victims of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan or Iraq"
Talk about nail on the head. This is dead center. IMO, this describes a Leftist to the micron.
This just has me steaming. Just because the Leftist's can't find friends on the Right, they make friends with the enemy. All the more reason that there must be a total political defeat of the Left.
#2
This just has me steaming. Just because the Leftist's can't find friends on the Right
I think you mean "won't find friends on the Right". For most on the left of the spectrum, there's infinitely more in common between them and your average Republican. Heck, the number of religious conservatives who really want anything resembling a "theocracy" is small -- and almost all REJECTED from the conservative mainstream. Yet the left takes comfort when a for-real "stone the queers, keep the women in the home, pregnant and covered from head to toe" theocrat mouths their talking points.
Unfortunately, the left has internalized a great deal of what had been Soviet propaganda. For them to consider the possibility that the US isn't the villain would require questioning a great deal of their core beliefs, and doing that puts them at too high a risk of one of them coming up with the wrong answers and not being leftists anymore.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/07/2005 19:36
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I love that headline, just as much as I love the reasoning or lack thereof behind it. Y'see, just because nine Moose limbs either exploded or tried to explode in the British public transit system, inflicting a large number of casualties on their fellow citizens or inhabitants in the name of their religion, that's no reason to take any action to protect the nation against members of their religion who may feel called upon to do the same thing. You might alienate other homicidal maniacs, who would them attempt to... ummm... do the same thing they were going to do anyway.
Prime Minister Tony Blair's government on Saturday defended its plans to crack down on extremist Islamic clerics who preach hate, as critics warned the measures could further alienate British Muslims.
Just an aside here, but when I was a lad, the noun was "hatred" and the verb was "to hate." When did the language change?
Britain's chief legal official, Lord Chancellor Charles Falconer, said the deadly attacks in London on July 7 showed the government must act against people "who are encouraging young men who are becoming suicide bombers. I think there is a very widespread sense in the country subsequent to July 7th that things have changed. A new balance needs to be struck. It needs to be a lawful balance but it needs to be an effective balance," he told British Broadcasting Corp. radio.
To me, that seems the very voice of sweet reason, but then I'm a linear thinker who believes in cause and effect...
Since the bombings on three subway trains and a bus, which killed 52 people and four suspected suicide attackers, Blair's government has been trying to build support among political opponents and Muslim leaders for new anti-terrorism legislation. On Friday, the prime minister announced proposals to deport foreign nationals who glorify acts of terror, bar radicals from entering Britain, close down mosques linked to extremism, ban certain Islamic groups and, if necessary, amend human rights laws.
That's basic management school stuff. If you have a problem, you identify solutions, staff them, apply feedback within constraints, then implement them.
But the government's new plans appear to have cracked the spirit of consensus. Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy warned the measures could alienate the law abiding majority of Britain's 1.8 million Muslims and inflame tensions.
Whoa, there Chuck! The measures involve deporting foreign nationals who glorify acts of terror, which the presumably law-abiding majority of Muslims should be happy to support; barring radicals from entering Britain, which would keep the population law-abiding, rather than flavoring it with the lawless; closing down mosques linked to extremism, which the law-abiding presumably don't frequent; and banning certain Islamic groups on the basic of their lack of law-abidingness. Which of those points, precisely, do you object to?
"A fundamental duty, a responsibility on all of us, whether government or nongovernment, is to uphold the rule of law and the safety of the citizen," he said.
Hey! Boilerplate! Go ahead, ooze some more platitudes...
"But alongside that, of course, is to uphold civil liberties and the right to free speech. It is getting that balance right that will be very important ..." he told BBC radio.
Agreed. It's very important. Also important is stopping people from killing large numbers of Londoners with explosives in the public transportation system and maiming even more.
A British Muslim group called the Islamic Forum Europe warned the measures could jeopardize national unity in Britain.
That means they don't like it, pehaps because they're not... ummm... law-abiding at heart...
"If these proposed measures are allowed to see the light of day, they will increase tensions and alienate communities. The measures are counterproductive and will encourage more radicalization," said forum President Musleh Faradhi. "Many Muslims will perceive our prime minister as playing into the hands of the terrorists." He also criticized the government's plans to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, a radical Islamic group that calls for the formation of an Islamic caliphate and is banned in several countries in Central Asia. Supporters insist it is a nonviolent group persecuted by corrupt governments. "Proscribing it will be counterproductive," said Faradhi. "It will give a green light to despotic leaders in the Muslim world to silence political dissenters."
Meanwhile, three men were scheduled to appear in court Saturday charged with failing to disclose information about the whereabouts of a suspect in the failed July 21 London bomb attacks. The Metropolitan Police said Shadi Sami Abdel Gadir, 22, Omar Almagboul, 20, and Mohamed Kabashi, 23, were charged under the Terrorism Act with withholding information that they "knew or believed might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension, prosecution or conviction" of a terrorist suspect. Three other people already face similar charges, including the wife and sister-in-law of suspected bomber Hamdi Issac, who is being held in Rome.
A postscript...
I had to go out before I'd finished my train of thought on this article, specifically the part about how "the measures could jeopardize national unity in Britain."
I think I've made the point before that "unity" can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. A common assessment of national purpose is a good thing. But if I step outside and see my next door neighbor, grab her by the neck, throw her to the ground and begin copulating, she and I have achieved a certain unity of purpose. She's still being raped. If I stop by the liquor store to buy a bottle of underpriced champagne and stick my trusty .38 in the cashier's face and holler "gimme your dough!" we've achieved a certain unity of purpose as he's handing over all the money. He's still being robbed. There are times when a certain amount of difference of opinion is good, even if it degenerates into a domestic altercation complete with throwing crockery and calling names. That's because sometimes one side of an argument is right and the other side is wrong. Those who're right have an obligation to stick to their principles, regardless of whether the other side is jumping up and down and rolling its eyes and calling bad names.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:13 ||
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#1
Some wit should propose that all British clerics be licensed, pointing out that CofE, Catholic, and Jewish clerics are licensed already. Remember that being "clergy" entails a lot more than preaching a sermon. Most of it is financial, managerial, counseling, etc., all of which are generally licensed in the secular world. This would, of course, result in the immediate arrest of clerics involved in unlawful use of monies provided to them.
#3
Ok, apart from the usual BS of alienation, there's one thing that really ticks me off - this 1.8 million muslims (last I heard it was 1.6 million, it seems to fluctuate all the time).
Indian - 1.05 million, Pakistani - 747k, Bangladeshi - 283k, other asian - 247k. Mixed race is about 670k.
Now the stats say that 90% of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are Muslim, with about 10% of the Indians as well. Mixed race is about 10% Muslim, so that makes 1.2 million max. So where's the other 600k from?
Now there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but I'd rather believe them than the words of a politician who is a well known as a profligate opportunist.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 11:15
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Critics warn new anti-terror plans could alienate British Muslims
One can only hope!
Enough to leave, maybe?
(Nah, I didn't think so either.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/07/2005 11:18
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#5
Simple solution: have those alienated Muslims become Pakistani Muslims, living in Pakistan of course and problem solved.
#8
Problem is that "Pakistani Muslims" would want a "pure" state of their own within the United Kingdom.
This is the very ethos of Pakistan.
Read the article by MJ Ackbar in the opinion thread.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 12:24
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#9
Tony, what about Somalis, Algerians, Arabs, ???
Posted by: leader of the pack ||
08/07/2005 12:59
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#10
LotP - the stats page shows 'Other' as 230k, which should include all the ones you've mentioned. I don't think we have many Algerians here, but I could be wrong.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 13:04
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#11
And of course JFM has nailed it in one.
We ought to set a book up on the first European country to start mass deportations - my money is on the Netherlands, but with the article on 'The Left' in Germany, it could be them...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 13:07
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#12
This is no different from our own internal problems with illegal immigrants. Most are willing to work hard, obey most of the laws of our nation, and don't cause problems. There's a minority that a) want to live on welfare, b) want to "return the Mexican territory to its legitimate owners", or c) want to deal drugs, commit crimes, and prey on society. We should keep the a crowd, and deport or exterminate the b and c crowd. The problem is, the liberal left want to lump ALL illegal immigrants under one umbrella, and force us to keep them all. The same is true with Muslims.
The things the left forgets is that the laws of a nation are there to protect the law-abiding, flag-waving, nation-loving people, not the rabble. If you don't enforce your laws, they become meaningless. As far as "alienating" the "good" Muslims, if they're offended by the police cracking down on the rabble, then they're part of the problem, and deserve the same treatment. We might want to also consider deporting some of the loony left that can't understand that.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 13:44
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#13
Let me correct myself - PIMF! We should keep the hard-working, and deport a, b, and c. Not enough coffee yet this morning...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 13:49
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#14
OP wrote, "The things the left forgets is that the laws of a nation are there to protect the law-abiding, flag-waving, nation-loving people, not the rabble. If you don't enforce your laws, they become meaningless."
1. In the Left's view, everyone except themselves, especially patriotic..., are rabble.
2. They HOPE to make the laws that support our national identity meaningless.
#16
I read the "Have Your Say" at the BBC on this topic just as it was starting. There were plenty of Muslims there saying "It's about time!", "deport the bastards", "too little to late", "I am a British Muslim, send these nut jobs packing." No one seems to need to hit these folks with a clue bat.
Do I see some major under reporting of this sentiment has gone on in the UK press perhaps? If so then how about the US press? Apparently some Muslims have been warning the UK government, for years in fact. I wonder if the US government has done the same, because they âare the wrong peopleâ as in, not CAIR. Is it the same in the US as the UK? If it is, who's invisible hand is at work in the press? That "moderate Muslim" may not be a fictional being at all. They may just be getting ignored or misrepresented. Topic we have and will continue to debate here.
I still am taking a wait and see attitude to find out if Blair will deliver.
#17
Ah shucks! And they were assimilating so well too....
Sorry OP, I have to disagree with you on that one. I have no problem keeping the LEGAL immigrants - they have shown their resilance and real desire to become part of the United States.
I draw the line at ILLEGAL aliens. By defintion they are here in violation of Federal law. Yes they may be 'law abiding' (now) and peaceful, just want to work and earn a wage, and the like. If they want to stay here they should have to go through the same process as anyone else desiring to come here legally fron anyone else - England, Philippines, Japan, Russa, India, etc... They should not get special treatment.
We should *never* reward them for breaking the law . We tried that and it only encourage more illegal aliens.
If we need the workforce then change the law to allow more LEGAL immigration. This will both filter the immigrants (background checks, medical checks, etc...), protect immigrants from those who would exploit their status (slave wages, etc..), and increase the value of 'U.S. citizenship'.
#18
It would be nice to believe that SPoD, but I simply don't buy what comes out of the BBC anymore.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 17:18
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#19
Hell I wish we would do that here stateside! Our country needs to rid itself of the terrorists too.
I don't feel that you should give in to the muslims to be politically correct on this. It's more important to be safe.
I like Blair's earlier comment, if you don't like it here leave.
CFool, I agree.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 17:52
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A suicide bomber driving an empty fuel tanker detonated his vehicle Sunday near a police station in central Iraq, killing at least two people, police said. Three Iraqi soldiers and two Oil Ministry employees were killed in two separate drive-by shootings in Baghdad, as the U.S. military announced the deaths of two American soldiers in a roadside bombing in central Iraq.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:12 ||
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"If Arabs killing Jews is the fault of Jews, shouldn't Jews killing Arabs be the fault of the Arabs?
Good point. My thoughts exactly.
I apologize, but let's try to stay away from using the word "Arab," in situations like this. Due to the fact that there are thousands of Arab Christians. Not every Arab is Muslim. If you don't mind, I prefer the word "Muslim" instead of "Arab."
#5
Right. Christians, since they're automatically suspect for not being Muslims, sometimes find they have to "be more Catholic than the Pope" for Palestinian causes. The Arab Nationalism theorists were disproportionately Christian (I guess it was pretty much their only hope of being treated as equal citizens).
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 20:16
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#6
"Ever heard of George Habash?
I certainly didn't mean that every Christian is exactly Mother Teresa. There are hunderds of Judas Iscariot's and George Habash's. In fact, there are some Judas Iscariot's at my church. There is simply no need to bundle an entire race.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:07 ||
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#1
Sounds like they are blowing smoke out it. Ironically, the federalism and anti-federalism arguments were microscopically examined both at the founding of the US, and re-examined during the Articles of Confederation discussions and later, in the Lincoln-Douglas debates. However, the Sunnis ignore the real issues and concentrate on such a petty view of things as to be laughable. "Federalism means we can't rule over everybody anymore--NO FAIR!!! (sniff, sniff)."
Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday until further notice to protest recent attacks against senior legal officials. The shutdown was announced in a statement signed by judges and lawyers. Earlier in the week in Gaza City, an explosive device was detonated outside the home of former Palestinian Justice Minister Zuhair Sourani, while a separate blast damaged a wall outside the home of the Palestinian Authority's attorney general in the city, Hussein Abu Assi. Both men were appointed by parliament to investigate widespread corruption in the Palestinian Authority. Sourani resigned as overseer of judges on Saturday, saying the Palestinian Authority was not doing enough to protect him and his colleagues.
The judicial shutdown will continue until "the Palestinian Authority puts an end to the serious deterioration that has undermined the Palestinian legal system and its personnel and has escalated in the past few days, especially after the attacks," the statement said. The action dealt a blow to efforts by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas to clamp down on the lawlessness that has grown in the Palestinian areas during almost five years of fighting with Israel. The authority of Palestinian security and legal institutions has greatly diminished as the influence of militants has grown in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. In some instances, Palestinian militants have kidnapped Palestinians suspected of collaborating with Israel from courthouses during trials and killed them.
The officials also protested what they said is the lack of willingness of authorities to implement court decisions, due to international pressure. Palestinian legal officials in the Gaza Strip and West Bank on Sunday planned to discuss further steps to force the Palestinian Authority to protect them, the statement said. No suspects have been arrested in the attacks on the Sourani and Assi homes. Sourani has said he and Palestinian security know who is responsible.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:05 ||
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#1
The paleos have a legal system?
For what - deciding which male in the splodeydope's family gets which cut of the payment?
They don't need it for anything else, since they don't obey any laws except their law to kill Joooooos.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/07/2005 11:21
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Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday..
It wasn't operating correctly anyway by any measure, so what's the difference?
Former British foreign secretary Robin Cook, who quit Prime Minister Tony Blair's government over the Iraq war, has died after collapsing while hiking with his wife on a mountain in his native Scotland. His death was announced by police after Cook, 59, was airlifted by helicopter from Ben Stack in the Highlands following his collapse on the rugged peak during his summer holiday.
Police said Cook, a keen walker, was nearing the top of Ben Stack, a conical mountain that stands 721 metres high, with his second wife Gaynor when he became ill at 2.23pm. An air-sea rescue helicopter was dispatched to take him to hospital in Inverness, where he was declared dead at 4.05pm, five minutes after his arrival in the emergency ward, a spokesman for Raigmore hospital said. Britain's domestic Press Association said it seemed he had suffered a heart attack.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:03 ||
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It was Blair's Boys wot done it! They used a swarm of top-secret military UAVs disguised as midges, each packing a full 200 nl dose of digitalin; programmed to attack gnome-like objects.
#5
Thousands and thousands of tiny robot midges? Each with it's killer cargo of salt, penetrating into the very pores of the victim! Yes! Ima with you BullDawg!
An Algerian political leader has been told by a court that he would remain imprisoned pending further questioning, his son said. Ali Belhadj, the former number two in the banned Islamic Salvation Front (FIS), was arrested on 27 July after an Aljazeera television interview where he supported the resistance to the US-led forces in Iraq. "An investigating judge questioned Ali Belhadj and ordered him back to prison," Abdelkader Moghni, a former FIS leader, said. Belhadj's son Abdelfattah added: "The authorities has returned my father back to jail to complete the questioning."
Algeria's General Prosecutor Kaddour Beradja said Belhadj faced charges of "praising acts of terrorism, inciting murder and distributing subversive leaflets". Belhadj told Aljazeera in a telephone interview: "I congratulate the mujahidin fighting in Iraq and ask God to help them in the face of occupiers and their allies, especially that the sharia says that allies of occupiers face the same fate as occupiers themselves." Belhadj also expressed his opinion regarding the killing of two Algerian diplomats in Iraq, for which, according to a website, al-Qaida had claimed responsibility. Al-Qaida regards Algeria's government as infidel and said in a web-statement: "We won't forget what Algeria did to Muslims, by killings, destruction and spilling their blood."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
10:01 ||
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One month to the day after the London bombings that claimed 56 lives, police have charged their first key suspect in a failed attempt two weeks later to repeat the attacks. Yassin Hassan Omar, 24, a Somali living in north London, will appear before a judge in a high-security prison charged with attempted murder, conspiracy and possession of explosives, the Metropolitan Police said in a statement. He had been identified as a prime suspect in an attempt to bomb the Underground railway at Warren Street in central London on 21 July as three others tried to do the same elsewhere in the capital.
Omar was the first to be charged with a direct role in the bombing attempt. Six others have been charged with the lesser crime of failing to reveal information to police, including three men in their early 20s who appeared in court on Saturday.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
09:59 ||
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About 1000 protesters have clashed with Iraqi police in the town of Samawa, south of Baghdad, leaving at least one person dead and about 60 others injured, police say. The protest on Sunday was over the poor state of water and power supplies. Witnesses said police opened fire on the crowd. At least one person was killed and 46 civilians injured in the fighting, said Captain Hussein Manwar. Thirteen police officers were injured, he said. Witnesses said the demonstration in front of the governor's offices began peacefully, but when it grew larger, government security guards fired shots into the air to disperse the crowd. Clashes with police began after demonstrators threw rocks and attacked a police vehicle, setting it on fire, witnesses said.
Iraq's new Shia-led government took power in January elections promising to end violence and restore public services. But frustrations are running high with electricity shortages and high unemployment. Samawah, 370km southeast of Baghdad, is where about 600 Japanese troops are based. They have been involved in a series of reconstruction efforts since arriving in the area in January 2004, including paving roads, rebuilding schools and providing hospitals with medical supplies and equipment.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005
09:58 ||
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Officers used a stun gun to take a Michigan man into custody after he attempted to fight them off with medieval weaponry, according to police. Police said Robert McClain sped away from the scene of a car crash in Royal Oak Wednesday night. When officers went to his home, McClain was apparently in the basement and prepared to keep officers at bay with a 4-foot sword and a large mallet.
"One of the statements that he made is that, 'I got 1,000 years of power. Come and get me,'" said Deputy Chief Chris Jahnke, of the Royal Oak Police Department. "And they looked down and he has this metal chain (and a) mesh guard (or) vest on, along with these leather gauntlets on his arms."
After dodging swords, chains and the mallet -- which were being thrown up from the basement -- officers used a stun gun to subdue McClain and arrest him, reported Detroit TV station WDIV.
McClain was charged Thursday with assault. If convicted, he could face up to five years in prison.
#4
5 years seems a bit steep - throwing swords and other medieaval weaponry *up* the stairs is unlikely to hurt anyone too much, and he does seem like a candidate for "Americas Dumbest Criminals"...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 11:48
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#6
I think the correct protocol in such circumstances is for the officers in attendance to pour a large couldron of boiling oil into the basement. After all, stun guns were outlawed and deemed unchivalrous weapons by Papal decree throughout Christendom following the unGodly and shamefully stunning inflicted by the Walloons on the Aragonians at the Battle of Renard's Lake in 1347...
#7
There used to be a guy who walked the Capitol Hill section of Seattle in a leather halter with a sword carried in a sheath on his back.... known to one and all as "Fred the Pretentious".
#8
Stun gun? Hell, a flurry of shotgun bean bags would have been funnier. Only one and a half thumbs up for the cop's performance in this stand off. The comic element was half hearted and lacking.
But the reason that Pakistan has become a safety net for individual cells as well as organised, regimented movements like the Taleban has deeper roots. The Sunday Times reported on 24 July that villagers in Chak 477 in Punjab, Pakistan â where the suicide bomber Shehzad Tanweerâs family emigrated from â held a heroâs funeral for him despite the absence of his body, and chanted slogans like âTanweer, the hero of Islamâ. Among the mourners were members of a banned organisation, Jaish-e-Muhammad, which normally reserves its havoc for India. The ideology of such villages was not created by Afghanistan.
Osama is in Pakistan because of this parallel ideology; the ideology is not there because of him.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005
09:46 ||
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Fascinating.
It is often claimed that Jinnah was secular but the call to Jihad predates the creation of Pakistan itself.
By 1940 Jinnah knew what he wanted â Pakistan. What was debatable was why. The slogan that divided India was simple: âIslam is in danger.â As a proposition, it was absurd. For the believer a faith is true precisely because it is imperishable. A Muslim can be in danger, but not Islam. However, if Muslims were in danger from Hindus, then they needed security and safeguards in those regions where they were in a minority, like central India. Instead Pakistan was created on the western and eastern flanks of the subcontinent, where Muslims were in a majority and if anything the Hindus were in danger.
The logic for the creation of Pakistan had, therefore, to be blown up from saving Muslims to saving Islam. The âdefence of Islamâ needed a fortress and Pakistan became that fortress. Ironically, the religiosity of Gandhi helped sustain Muslim League suspicions. Gandhi fantasised about a âRama Rajyaâ in united India, a dream kingdom of the Hindu warrior-god Rama, where every citizen had equal rights and so on and so forth. Jinnah argued that this was just a deceptive term for the Hindu rule that he feared. The demand for Pakistan was accompanied by the rhetoric of a simulated jihad. A jihad is valid if Muslims are denied the right to practise their faith, or against the invasion of a Muslimâs homeland. And so Muslims were warned that in post-British India mosques would be destroyed and the call to prayer forbidden, and they must resort to violence if necessary to protect their separateness. A typical pamphlet, circulated after the Muslim League announced a âDirect Action Dayâ on 16 August 1946, said, âThe Bombay resolution of the All-India Muslim League has been broadcast. The call to revolt comes to us from a nation of heroes ...The day for an open fight which is the greatest desire of the Muslim nation has arrived. Come, those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves, goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who do not say their prayers â all come. The shining gates of Heaven have been opened for you. Let us enter in thousands. Let us all cry out victory to Pakistan.â
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 11:16
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In the Wapo. I've never liked Rushdie. His writing style is indirect and sometimes opaque. He uses bad logic sometimes and he gets facts wrong frequently. But he is somewhat influential in left-elitist circles. The only thing I like about him is the occasional sarcasm and the fact that he knows Islam's horror up close.
The Right Time for An Islamic Reformation
By Salman Rushdie
When Sir Iqbal Sacranie, head of the Muslim Council of Britain, admitted that "our own children" had perpetrated the July 7 London bombings, it was the first time in my memory that a British Muslim had accepted his community's responsibility for outrages committed by its members.... However, this is the same Sacranie who, in 1989, said that "Death is perhaps too easy" for the author of "The Satanic Verses." ... [Iqbal] expects the new law to outlaw references to Islamic terrorism. He said as recently as Jan. 13, "There is no such thing as an Islamic terrorist. This is deeply offensive. Saying Muslims are terrorists would be covered [i.e., banned] by this provision." Two weeks later his organization boycotted a Holocaust remembrance ceremony in London commemorating the liberation of Auschwitz 60 years ago. If Sir Iqbal Sacranie is the best Blair can offer in the way of a good Muslim, we have a problem....
It should be a matter of intense interest to all Muslims that Islam is the only religion whose origins were recorded historically [this is actually not true - written records contemporaneous with Mohammud's time that verify Islamic history do not exist- the earliest biog is a more than a century after the period in question]
and thus are grounded not in legend but in fact. The Koran was revealed at a time of great change in the Arab world, the seventh-century shift from a matriarchal nomadic culture to an urban patriarchal system....
However, few Muslims have been permitted to study their religious book in this way. The insistence that the Koranic text is the infallible, uncreated word of God renders analytical, scholarly discourse all but impossible. Why would God be influenced by the socioeconomics of seventh-century Arabia, after all? Why would the Messenger's personal circumstances have anything to do with the Message?
The traditionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages. [I don't get the logic here]
Laws made in the seventh century could finally give way to the needs of the 21st. The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance of the concept that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities.
Broad-mindedness is related to tolerance; open-mindedness is the sibling of peace. This is how to take up the "profound challenge" of the bombers. Will Sir Iqbal Sacranie and his ilk agree that Islam must be modernized? That would make them part of the solution. Otherwise, they're just the "traditional" part of the problem.
#1
"If Sir Iqbal Sacranie is the best Blair can offer in the way of a good Muslim, we have a problem...."
:)
"The traditionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages.
[I don't get the logic here] ..."
I think this is basically the age-old question of whether beings evolve or are static, isn't it? Is life fixed in nature or is it a creation in progress?
if you understand Rushdie's logic then that makes two of you
To me a holy book can have some commandments that are short term and some long term, whether or not history is involved. In all the books of Lev, Num, Deut, Josh, Judges, Samuel & Kings, there was never a 'putting lamb blood on the doorpost' ceremony. This despite a lack of 'historical context' as Rushdie mentions. The commandment was just a one time thing. It would have been relatively easy to say that some of the 'slay them whereever you find them' and similar commandments were only until Mecca was conquered or only until Arabia was conquered or only while the rightly guided caliphs reigned. But Islam just didn't do that.
#3
Same ol' same ol'. He's trotting out the traditional lefty attack on historical precedent. E.g. this might look more familiar:
"The strict constructionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Republicans, allowing them to imprison the United States in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the U.S. Constitution were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages.
The link to this article is um... how do i say it..... ? I'm drunk and i copied & pasted the article but closed the site i got it from [lmao]... I'm pretty sure it was from abc.net.au or news.com.au [somewhere] sorry !
Prime Minister John Howard is to host an anti-terrorism summit with Muslim leaders.
Mr Howard is expected to write to the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils and senior Muslim figures this week proposing the meeting, Melbourne's The Age newspaper says.
The forum will include other government ministers but a date, venue and invitation list have not been finalised.
The agenda is expected to cover issues such as inflammatory religious books and websites and comments by radical clerics that are seen as condoning or encouraging terrorism.
It may also look at restricting visas for radical overseas clerics and improving the training of imams, the newspaper said.
The summit was suggested two weeks ago by the Federation of Islamic Councils.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005
03:49 ||
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#1
You aren't supposed to read the news while drunk, silly! Go enjoy yourself properly, and come back later.
The head of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Ameer Ali says he is happy to meet Prime Minister John Howard to discuss the threat of terrorism.
Mr Howard wants to meet Australia's Muslim leaders within the next few weeks to enlist their help in the fight against terrorism. He says British authorities may have been able to warn of the attacks if they had better information from those closest to the bombers. "Their communities must have known something of it," he told the ABC's Insiders program.
He says the meeting will be held before a summit of state and territory leaders on Australia's response to the London bombings.
Dr Ali says Muslim leaders have been keen to meet with Mr Howard for some time to discuss how they can help prevent terrorism activity in Australia. "I don't know what he has in mind. We don't know the details of what he wants to talk to us, but nobody is trying to sabotage him," he said. "Nobody wants to undermine his authority. We want to assist him but let us discuss how we can help him."
Mr Howard says there was a failure of intelligence ahead of the London bombings. He says that preventing the same happening here requires a two pronged approach. "We have to try and get inside the communities where these potentially hostile groups may be and we need the help of these communities," he said.
The Federal Opposition leader has welcomed the idea but says the Government needs to show more leadership in the form of practical measures such as more sniffer dogs, better screening at ports and more security at airports.
Dr Ali says all levels of government could gain by meeting with the community. "Having a good relationship with the community, it's what has the government lose," he said. "In fact it should be done not just at the Commonwealth level but at the state level.
"There's nothing to lose for any party by having a constant dialogue with the community."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005
03:46 ||
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#1
practical measures such as more sniffer dogs, better screening at ports and more security at airports
None of these expensive measures helps when the threat is home grown. Is the Opposition leader trying to look like a fool, or does it come naturally?
An extreme Muslim cleric whose family have been living on benefits in Britain for 20 years says it would not be 'fair' to deport him. Speaking after the Prime Minister announced his clampdown, father-of-seven Sheik Omar Bakri said: "I have wives, children, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law. It would be hard on my family if I was deported."
Since Syrian-born Bakri settled in Britain, he and his extended family have raked in benefits amounting to at least £300,000. He is registered disabled because of an injury to his leg during his childhood, and was recently supplied with a £31,000 Ford Galaxy under the Motability scheme. Bakri, who lives in a £200,000 home in North London, tops up his £250-a-week benefit payments with an extra £50 incapacity allowance.
He has praised the September 11 terrorists as 'magnificent', called Israel 'a cancer' and said homosexuals should be 'thrown from Big Ben'. In January, he declared that Britain had become a 'land of war', and called on Muslims to unite behind Al Qaeda. He has supported suicide bombings and urged his followers to kill non-Muslims ' wherever, whenever'.
He also claimed he has no wish to stay in Britain, but his family would suffer if he was deported. "If they want to change the law and say that people who are here must live within the framework of those rules, then that is fine," said the 45-year-old cleric. "But they cannot punish people by backdating it for 20 years or so. That is not a smart or fair system. Tony Blair should have charged me years ago if that was the case. He did not because I had done nothing wrong." Bakri also claimed he had tried to dissuade affected young Muslims from carrying out terror attacks in Britain, by telling them that under Islamic law it would be wrong to target a country in which they were living.
#4
He openly said he has wives? Isn't that a crime in and of itself?
His house is worth nearly double mine, his car is worth 50% more, all on a quarter of My take-home pay? I think I broke a bone in My foot when I was really young. Can I move there and get some bennies too?
#5
I say deport the whole family - wives, children, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law - as they seem to be reliant on him. Let him tootle off to the walfare office in his Syrian-Government-provided Ford Galaxy each week to collect benefits for them all in Damascus. That sounds fair to me.
#6
Somehow I think Dr Basher Assad's regime will have other plans for this mullah. No Ford Galaxys in his future. A hearse perhaps.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:34
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#7
find some unemployed soccer "hooligans", give em big thick sticks, and let em know what this parasite has sucked off the public teat. Supply directions via mapblast or google, trouble removed
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 14:45
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#8
Dont u just wanna grab him round the throat and snap his specs..
Posted by: I P Daley ||
08/07/2005 15:00
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#9
Dont u just wanna grab him round the throat and snap his specs..
#12
Ship -
My first car was an LTD Eliminator with the 429CJ engine - but for getting one's jihadi ass outta town and away from the cops, you can't touch a 401 equipped Javelin with the Trans-Am package. Trust me on this.
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/07/2005 20:15
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Send him packing back to Syria. Then send all the rest of the Muslims in Britain back to wherever they came from, along with all their British-born relatives. Britain's welfare rolls will breathe a great sigh of relief and the likelihood of another terror attack will drop exponentially.
Posted by: mac ||
08/07/2005 20:21
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I generally skim past the avian flu/swine flu stories but this one caught my eye...
Anthrax has killed one person and infected 12 in northeast China, state media reported on Sunday, in the latest outbreak of animal-borne disease to hit the country in recent weeks.
Is there a standard multiplier for death tolls released by the ChiComs?
Anthrax, a disease caused by spore-forming bacteria normally contracted through contact with infected livestock, struck on July 29 outside Shenyang, in Liaoning province, Xinhua news agency said on its Web site, www.xinhuanet.com. By Friday, no new cases had been reported in the town of Damintun for five consecutive days, and the lives and work of people in the area have returned to normal, Xinhua said. Anthrax thrives in grazing livestock such as cattle, goats and sheep, which can ingest anthrax spores from the soil. Infections were isolated to Damintun and two surrounding villages, Xinhua said. Eleven victims had been treated in hospital and were recovering, it said. Livestock in the affected areas had been inoculated with anti-anthrax vaccine or culled and safely buried, it said. Local officials had carefully checked all local meat sales points and banned people from bringing sick animals to markets. Echoing an ongoing outbreak of a pig disease that has killed at least 39 people in southwestern China, all the victims in Damintun were infected through slaughtering, handling or eating infected cows. Snipped all the swine flu stuff. Read if you wish...
#2
Eee-yah. Man, this is scary stuff. And the Japanese Anthrax cover? Weird.
Livestock in the affected areas had been inoculated with anti-anthrax vaccine or culled and safely buried, it said. Local officials had carefully checked all local meat sales points and banned people from bringing sick animals to markets.
HAHAHA yeah right. Local officials did everything they were supposed to do. Uh-huh.
#3
And don't forget the corrupt government doctor/official who blackmarkets the vaccine to the farmers, who then cut the stuff lowering its effectiveness so that the disease survives and mutates into a resistant variety. Oh, joy.
I just hope that when it really get serious, we don't get that humanitarian crowd demanding we compromise our vaccines by shipping them into that Chinese circus.
Posted by: Oztralian [aka] God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 11:38
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Slock, that's a pretty nasty scenario. The trouble is that it's totally believable - and the outcome is going to be horrendous.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 14:37
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I raised pigs as a 4H project in the early 1960's (yeah, I'm as old as dirt). It used to cost me about $8 to innoculate each pig with all the vaccines and antibiotics necessary to keep them safe and healthy. Surprisingly, the price today is only about $16 for the same innoculations. It cost even less to innoculate our two milk cows and the mule we used to plow our garden.
The problem in China is the same problem you have in any other controlled economy - the people raising livestock only do what they're told to do, and the government assumes that it will lose x percent any, so why waste money on expensive vaccines. Lives are cheap - nobody in government cares about the lives of the people. The result is stories like these.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 15:22
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Based on the SARS epidemic, doubling the death toll should be about right.
JERUSALEM â A Palestinian Temple Mount leader with alleged links to Hamas has called on Arabs to flood the holy site next weekend to protect it from "Israeli protesters," while a Jewish group is urging Jews to ascend the Mount en mass the same day.
Sheikh Raed Salah, head of the Islamic Movement, a Palestinian Temple Mount activist group, called on Arabs Friday to "defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque" Aug. 14, the day Jews commemorate the destruction of the First and Second Temples with a 25-hour fast. The Western Wall, below the Mount, is usually particularly crowded the day of the fast, with several large Jewish prayer services taking place throughout the day and the night before. The Jewish worshippers traditionally do not ascend the heavily restricted Mount itself.
Salah, who was recently released from prison, has been accused by Israel of receiving funds from organizations related to terror groups, including Hamas. He said Friday, Muslims must defend Al Aqsa by outnumbering the Jews praying at the Western Wall below.
The Islamic Movement's call for Palestinian protests coincides with an announcement by Revava, a Jewish Temple Mount group, for Jews to ascend the Mount Aug. 14 to hold a "massive prayer assembly for the rebuilding of our holy Temple on its historic site." David Ha'ivri, chairman of Revava, told WND, "The Muslims must understand that their rule over our holy place has come to an end and that the Jewish people will exercise our religious rights on the Temple Mount. We expect thousands of Jews to take part."
It was unclear if Jerusalem police would allow the rally to take place. The police have previously banned some of Revava's other protests, citing "security concerns."
Revava last held a rally at the Western Wall April 10, after it announced plans to bring 10,000 Jews to the Mount, prompting counter-protests by Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and on the Temple Mount, and by more than 100,000 Muslims in Indonesia and several other Muslim countries. Only about 200 Jewish protesters were allowed past intense security during the Revava rally and they did not ascend the Mount.
Ha'ivri expects a large turn out this time, partly because there will likely already be thousands at the Western Wall during the fast day. "Also, over the last weekend, a number of Jewish Temple groups have joined our call and have posted ads in the newspapers calling for marches to the Temple gates and for prayer on the Temple Mount," Haivri explained.
The Temple Mount activity comes at a particularly heated time here. In an act Israeli police are calling "Jewish terrorism," Eden Natan Zada, 19, carried out a shooting attack against Arab passengers on a public Israeli bus in the northern Arab town of Shfaram on Thursday. Zada also was killed when he was assaulted by a mob of angry Arab bystanders and witnesses. man only 19 years old
Zada was an Israeli Defense Forces soldier recently sentenced to jail time for refusing orders related to the Aug. 17 evacuation of Jewish communities in Gaza and parts of Samaria.
The attack elicited calls for Arab protests and revenge. Israeli Arabs Friday held a general strike. Hamas warned of possible ... more like when or how much
... retaliation. The Arab-Israeli Monitoring Committee, which includes leading Arab figures, stated, "A popular uprising against the fascism and negative treatment we receive is the most reasonable scenario."
Relating the shooting to possible violence on the Temple Mount, Salah said, "This is not an isolated incident. It is the outcome of the Israeli discriminatory policy against the Arab residents of Israel. Last year the settlers said that they will carry a terrorist attack against the al-Aqsa mosque, and other mosques in Israel. This attack could be one of a series of planned terrorism against us."
The Temple Mount was opened to the general public until September 2000, when the Palestinians started their intifada by throwing stones at Jewish worshipers after then-candidate for prime minister Ariel Sharon visited the area. Following the onset of violence, the new Sharon government closed the Mount to non-Muslims, using checkpoints to control all pedestrian traffic for fear of further clashes with the Palestinians.
The Temple Mount was reopened to non-Muslims in August 2003. It still is open but only Sundays through Thursdays, 7:30 a.m. to 10 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., and not on any Christian, Jewish or Muslim holidays or other days considered "sensitive" by the Waqf, the Muslim custodians of the Temple Mount. During "open" days, Jews and Christian are allowed to ascend the Mount, usually through organized tours and only if they conform first to a strict set of guidelines, which includes demands that they not pray or bring any "holy objects" to the site. Visitors are banned from entering any of the mosques without direct Waqf permission. Rules are enforced by Waqf agents, who watch tours closely and alert nearby Israeli police to any breaking of their guidelines.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005
01:19 ||
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#1
G.S.T.W intoxicated comment:
Do you think it would be possible for a white person dressed in islamic clothing to carry out a suicide attack at Mecca on their annual pilgrimage ?
I think it would be nice for them to taste their own medicine for a change....
Oh how i dream of it......
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 4:26
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#2
I know the feeling GSTW... ever since 9/11 I've imagined the satisfaction of someone hijacking a Saudi Airliner and crashing it into Mecca during the Haj!
#3
That is precisely the difference between us and them. We would never even consider doing something like that while they consider it Standard Operating Procedure.
No. Islam is not like Christianity or Judism. Nothing like them at all.....
#4
Oh good grief, GSTW, don't be an idiot. We don't do that sort of thing, and that's one of the several things that makes us better people.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 12:23
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#5
We definitely don't want to stoop to their level. Remember, Christian's and Jews are not allowed to commit suicide. Leave that nonsense to the expert Satan worshippers.
#6
When I saw the headline phrase "explosive holy site" the first thing that came to mind was "mosque." I presume the IDF keeps some track of what kind of weapons are stored there. . .
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 16:23
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Actually, as a result of the experience of the Holocaust, the rabbinic community concluded there are times when suicide is acceptable. But not when it involves taking innocents with you. Of course, to the radical Muslims, there are no innocent non-Muslims...
BAKU - A prominent US non-governmental organization on Friday vehemently denied allegations that it was linked to an alleged plot to overthrow the Azerbaijani government.
Azeri prosecutors announced Thursday they had arrested the leader of a youth group, saying he was plotting to launch a peaceful popular revolution during parliamentary elections in November at the instigation of the National Democratic Institute (NDI).
"The allegations that we are funding a revolution just aren't true," NDI's director for Azerbaijan, Christy Quirk told AFP. In a statement the NDI said it cooperates with "all political parties" to promote free and fair voting. "All other allegations contradicting this position are not realistic," it said.
The organization, which has faced criticism from regimes in other former Soviet republics accusing it of promoting revolutions that swept Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan recently, did not mention any specific allegations in its statement.
Prosecutors also alleged that Yeni Fikir youth opposition movement leader Ruslan Bashirli allegedly accepted funds for a revolt from operatives of Azerbaijan's longtime foe Armenia. Bashirli told the Armenians he represented forces "acting on the instructions of the National Democratic Institute of the USA," and had received "specific instructions from representatives of this organization to prepare a revolution in Azerbaijan," according to a prosecutors' statement.
Yeni Fikir denies Bashirli is guilty of charges of attempting "to take power by force," adding that Bashirli made the comments about NDI "because he was drunk and bragging," according to Said Nuriyev, a Bashirli deputy. Yeni Fikir leaders claim the allegations are a government smear campaign, and come amid increasing government pressure on opposition political parties ahead of parliamentary elections in November.
Within Azerbaijan tensions between the opposition and the authorities have been on the rise in Azerbaijan ahead of the parliamentary vote. Azerbaijan's previous national vote, which saw Ilham Aliyev take the country's top post from his ailing father Heydar Aliyev in 2003, ended in two days of rioting and hundreds of arrests. Arrests of the opposition continued throughout this year, notably in May, when police arrested and beat dozens of protestors at an unsanctioned rally in Baku.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
01:15 ||
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NDI is proud to draw on the traditions of the U.S. Democratic Party. While the Institute's identification with the Democratic Party enhances its standing throughout the world, NDI programs are nonpartisan, fostering universal values and supporting democratic processes rather than a particular party or ideology.
I'm glad it's 'traditions' and not 'current practices'...
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the rate of family violence in this country has dropped by more than half since 1993. I've been trying to figure out why.
A lot of the credit has to go to the people who have been quietly working in this field: to social workers who provide victims with counseling and support; to women's crisis centers, which help women trapped in violent relationships find other places to live; to police forces and prosecutors, who are arresting more spouse-beaters and putting them away.
The Violence Against Women Act, which was passed in 1994, must have also played a role, focusing federal money and attention.
But all of these efforts are part of a larger story. The decline in family violence is part of a whole web of positive, mutually reinforcing social trends. To put it in old-fashioned terms, America is becoming more virtuous. Americans today hurt each other less than they did 13 years ago. They are more likely to resist selfish and shortsighted impulses. They are leading more responsible, more organized lives. A result is an improvement in social order across a range of behaviors.
The decline in domestic violence is of a piece with the decline in violent crime over all. Violent crime over all is down by 55 percent since 1993 and violence by teenagers has dropped an astonishing 71 percent, according to the Department of Justice.
The number of drunken driving fatalities has declined by 38 percent since 1982, according to the Department of Transportation, even though the number of vehicle miles traveled is up 81 percent. The total consumption of hard liquor by Americans over that time has declined by over 30 percent.
Teenage pregnancy has declined by 28 percent since its peak in 1990. Teenage births are down significantly and, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the number of abortions performed in the country has also been declining since the early 1990's.
Fewer children are living in poverty, even allowing for an uptick during the last recession. There's even evidence that divorce rates are declining, albeit at a much more gradual pace. People with college degrees are seeing a sharp decline in divorce, especially if they were born after 1955.
I could go on. Teenage suicide is down. Elementary school test scores are rising (a sign than more kids are living in homes conducive to learning). Teenagers are losing their virginity later in life and having fewer sex partners. In short, many of the indicators of social breakdown, which shot upward in the late 1960's and 1970's, and which plateaued at high levels in the 1980's, have been declining since the early 1990's.
I always thought it would be dramatic to live through a moral revival. Great leaders would emerge. There would be important books, speeches, marches and crusades. We're in the middle of a moral revival now, and there has been very little of that. This revival has been a bottom-up, prosaic, un-self-conscious one, led by normal parents, normal neighbors and normal community activists.
The first thing that has happened is that people have stopped believing in stupid ideas: that the traditional family is obsolete, that drugs are liberating, that it is every adolescent's social duty to be a rebel.
The second thing that has happened is that many Americans have become better parents. Time diary studies reveal that parents now spend more time actively engaged with kids, even though both parents are more likely to work outside the home.
Third, many people in the younger generation, under age 30 or so, are reacting against the culture of divorce. They are trying to lead lives that are more stable than the ones their parents led. Post-boomers behave better than the baby boomers did.
Fourth, over the past few decades, neighborhood and charitable groups have emerged to help people lead more organized lives, even in the absence of cohesive families.
Obviously, we're not living in a utopia, where all social problems have been solved. But these improvements across a whole range of behaviors are too significant to be dismissed. We in the media play up the negative, as we always do. The activist groups emphasize the work still to be done, because they want to keep people mobilized and financing their work.
But the good news is out there. You want to know what a society looks like when it is in the middle of moral self-repair? Look around.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
01:09 ||
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Edited for Length
The undercover reporter, who has a Muslim background, first approached the group as a potential convert in June, three weeks before the first London attack. Posing as a university graduate who was disaffected because he could not find a job, he introduced himself to members of the Saviour Sect who ran a stall handing out leaflets on the Whitechapel Road, east London. The sect and its interchangeable sister organisation, Al-Ghuraaba, were created after Bakri claimed to have closed down his militant extremist group Al-Muhajiroun last October. The sect came to prominence during the general election in April when it launched an intimidatory campaign against fellow Muslims to stop them voting. They were captured on film yelling and attacking members at a meeting of the mainstream Muslim Council of Britain. George Galloway, the Respect party MP for Bethnal Green, east London, claimed that they made death threats against him when they disrupted one of his election campaign meetings, shouting him down as a âfalse prophetâ. At the time Bakri denied any connection to the sect and he has continued â publicly at least â to keep his distance from it. But members openly talked of him as their spiritual leader when our reporter first approached them.
They invited the reporter to attend one of their meetings that evening. It was to be the first of many lectures and sermons that he attended. As he entered the entrance hall of the red-brick YMCA building in Beckton he was met initially with suspicion. Abdul Muhid, one of the sectâs leaders, questioned him closely. Within minutes Muhid, 22, was explaining that most new recruits were former heroin addicts who had found salvation. Another man, Nasser, in his early twenties with a wispy henna-speckled beard, implored our reporter to âunlearnâ the brand of Islam that he had been taught as a child and to adopt a new approach. It was important to be unemployed, Nasser said, as taking a job would contribute to the kuffar system. He said he was receiving a jobseekerâs allowance and justified this by saying the prophet Muhammad also lived off the state and attacked it at the same time. âAll money belongs to Allah anyway,â he said. There were other ways to opt out. âAll the brothers drive without insurance,â Nasser said proudly.
The following afternoon the reporter witnessed an Asian man being beaten by members of the Saviour Sect for âinsultingâ their version of Islam. The victim had struck up an argument with one of the group at the market stall. When he threw a leaflet to the ground he was punched in the face and a fight started. Up to seven members of the sect jumped on the man and began kicking him as he lay on the floor. A late intervention by one of the other stallholders gave him the opportunity to escape â his face swollen and bleeding. Later that day it emerged that the man who had been assaulted had been a member of the moderate Young Muslim Organisation and was also a supporter of Gallowayâs Respect party. One of the sect told the reporter that âthe brothersâ needed to calm down and stop attracting attention to themselves in public. âThey should have taken him round the corner and beaten him there,â he said...
ON July 3, Sheikh Omar Brooks of Al-Ghuraaba addressed the group at its Saturday night lecture. The 30-year-old, who comes from a Caribbean background and used to work as an electrician, converted to Islam after coming under Bakriâs spell. He claimed that he had had âmilitary trainingâ in Pakistan. Occasionally sipping a can of Fanta and gesticulating wildly, he declared: âI am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist.â It was not just our reporterâs group who were present. Schoolchildren in T-shirts bearing the words âmujaheddinâ and âwarriors of Allahâ listened intently as Brooks said he did not wish to die âlike an old womanâ in bed. âI want to be blown into pieces,â he declared, âwith my hands in one place and my feet in another.â He told the audience that it was a Muslimâs duty to stay apart from the rest of society: âNever mix with them. Never let your children play with their children.â He added: âThis hall is like our fortress against the kuffar and the so-called Muslims like the McB (the Muslim Council of Britain).â Warming to his theme, he said: âThey will build bridges and we will break them; they will build tall buildings and we will bring them down.â The audience rippled with laughter at the obvious reference to September 11, 2001.
Nasserâs brother, âMr Islamâ â believed to be Islam Uddin â had started the speeches that evening with his own fiery rhetoric. He told the audience that Islam was a religion of violence and that Muhammad was the âprophet of slaughter, not peaceâ. He said Muslims must not be defeatist as âeven now the brothers in Iraq are sending British, American and Iraqi colluders back in body bagsâ. As his three-year-old son played at his side, he launched into a bitter racist attack. The Jews, he said, were âthe most disgusting and greedy people on earthâ.
During the twice-weekly lectures and Friday prayers, men who had struggled to find jobs and, in some cases, had drifted into drug abuse, were told that as true believers they were better than non-Muslims. âThe toe of the Muslim brothers is better than all the kuffar on the earth,â Bakri said in one sermon. âIslam is superior, nothing supersedes it and the Muslim is superior.â Other regular speakers claimed that Islam was constantly under attack in Britain â and that the best form of defence was attack. One, who called himself Zachariah, claimed that the kuffar were trying to âwipe out (Muslims) from the face of the earthâ. He implored the group âto cover the land with our blood through martyrdom, martyrdom, martyrdomâ. Zachariah preached that the non-believers were dispensable: âTheyâre kuffar. Theyâre not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state.â Another preacher, Abu Yahya, who is also reported to go by the name of Abdul Rahman Saleem, argued that Muslims were constantly being subjected to derogatory names by non-believers in an effort to demotivate them. The solution was aggression. He said: âIt says in the Koran that we must try as much as we can to terrorise the enemy . . . we terrorise those people who terrorise us.â His message to Britain was: âBecause youâre a genuine democracy, all of you are liable.â Rest of the article at the link
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/07/2005
01:00 ||
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Geoffrey Bindman, a leading human rights solicitor, argued that Brooksâs apparent support for suicide bombings and his call for Muslims to âinstil terror into the heartsâ of non-believers might not be âspecificâ enough to warrant criminal proceedings.
Seems pretty clear to me that if Britain is to survive, it's going to have to rid itself of these hateful, parasitic, racist, xenophobic, murderous monsters. If the law doesn't define their behavior as criminal, then change the law so it does.
I spent about a hundred bucks on books about Islam to try to understand the nature of the threat we face-- and all I had to do was read this one article.
It's either them, or us.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/07/2005 5:23
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#3
This is not news, but this IS reporting in its finest and most courageous. Kudos to this brave reporter: he must have a pair the size of bowling balls.
#4
Memo to all journalists:
This is how it is done. Please emulate.
The Management.
Posted by: N guard ||
08/07/2005 8:56
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#5
Dave D. - we're not at the "them or us" phase yet, but articles like this only serve to open our eyes to what the situation really is.
My worry is what happens once the football season gets fully underway. There's no way that everyone going into a stadium can be checked for bombs etc and as a lot of these matches are shown live, the propaganda value would be immense. What would happen after that is anyones guess...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 10:48
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#6
What would happen after that is anyones guess...
I would hazzard a guess that the "football hooligans" would do a job on the next Muslims they came across. The Muslim situation is the same situation we have with lawyers: Either you (the rest of the lawyers/the rest of the Muslims) control your unruly, arrogant, and out-of-control members, or the rest of the civilized world will impose its regulation upon you. You have one chance. Failure won't be pretty.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 14:24
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This article is a keeper. I intend to hard-copy distribute this to all the doubters I know. The scumbags in this article truly deserve the title of Islamofascists. Their power-hungry hypocrisy is stunning and perfectly exposed here by their own words and deeds. Keep the light shining on these cock roaches and watch them run. A hearty well done to the undercover reporter who risked his life to tell the facts every Imam does not want us to know. Every Islamofascist group in the UK now has to wonder if every word and deed is being watched. They will wonder which of their comrades is about to betray them for what they really are. Let that eat at them. And it was all done without government action. Chalk one up for the good guys.
Simply called "Die Linke" (The Left), the new alliance has surged to 12% support in opinion polls - and blown the election wide open. The secret of its success is another man: Oskar Lafontaine.
Once the leader of the SPD, he resigned as finance minister in 1999 and spent years in the wilderness - but has now returned to politics. "Many people take this as a sign that there's a change in Germany, and the people hope that we combine the power of the Leftists, and people like this. They want it," says Mr Bisky, leader of the reformed communist party, the PDS. "So we are going through a good time. We come together with Lafontaine and for the first time the leftists in east and west come together."
Mr Lafontaine has been bitterly criticised by the SPD for "populism". In particular, after he complained about foreign workers coming in and taking Germans' jobs - using the term "Fremdarbeiter" (foreign worker) once used by the Nazis - instead of the more neutral "Gastarbeiter" (guest worker) generally used. "I can't help it if the Nazis spoke German," was his blunt response to the criticism.
As the new alliance presented its election manifesto on Friday, he found another theme: Germany should pull its troops out of Afghanistan, he said, saying the international "war on terror" had led to attacks on the nations involved in it. "We need to think about how to protect Germany from international terrorist attacks," he said, adding: "the Bundeswehr is deployed in Afghanistan in order to take part in the war on terror."
The party has also called for higher wages in Germany, to boost domestic demand, and pledged to make pensioners "once again proud to walk the streets."
Germany to implode in 5 .. 4 .. 3 ....
So the new left-wing party has a very traditional socialist message. But it seems to be a message the voters want to hear - and it is causing as much of a headache for the conservatives (CDU/CSU) as for Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, because it is mobilising people who would not otherwise have voted.
"Until recently, we expected the CDU leader, Angela Merkel, to be the next chancellor in a government along with the liberals (FDP)," says Moritz Schuller of the Tagesspiegel daily. "Now we will probably see a coalition between the Social Democrats without Schroeder - he will have to disappear - and with Merkel. She will still be chancellor, because she will win the election. But it will be a less impressive win."
Mrs Merkel has so far ruled out the possibility of forming a so-called "grand coalition" with the SPD. The hope seems to be that the support for the new party is a bubble that will burst. "I don't expect them to get twelve per cent. I'm confident that we will get a majority for the centre-right," says CDU deputy Christian Schmidt. "A grand coalition would be one of the worst outcomes for our country - because there would be no possibility to change what has to be changed, to get a ticket for reform."
But whether this is true or not, opinion polls show that a grand coalition is the most favoured outcome among German voters - who believe it can help in times of crisis.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
00:53 ||
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#4
Is TGA anywhere in the building and ready to share some of his own special brand of perceptive insight on these developments?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 9:19
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Thanks to God that we don't have a parliamentary system of proportional representation. Clinton's situation was preferable to what Merkle's appears likely to be. PR seems like a method to generate more dissension and fracture than sufficent support to govern effectively. I believe Germany deserves better but also that people get the government they deserve, especially in democracies.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 9:32
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#6
"parliamentary system of proportional representation"
Amen. Mrs D. This is a status quo insurance approach to politics. The appeal, of course, is that not too much damage can be done in such coalitions. On the other hand, given the mix of parties in European countries (centrist to just Left of Trotsky), not much good can be accomplished, either. Basically, as a form of government, it sucks like an F5 plundering downtown Okie City. Stasis, at best, populist (read: nanny-statist & xenophobic), at worst, not a model for forward progress. Germany's got a several real problems to solve, dumping the EU as promulgated being one, and this holds them back.
#7
To me this reads like the typical journalist bulldada. First they complain incessantly about "dirty and divisive politics and elections", claim that the "people" want a unified government with no argument or debate on divisive issues; yet they continually try to make all politics into a "horse race", setting otherwise inoffensive candidates against each other, and boosting fringe organizations who refuse to compromise on anything while ignoring moderation, courtesy, and compromise by the centrists.
#11
I agree with Anonymoose. Move along, there is nothing to see here, good citizens.
This reminds me of how most of the world sees the U.S. as consisting of only Micheal Jackson and porn. Then they get surprised when GWB wins an election.
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - Detainees at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have clashed at least 16 times, including one man who claims he has been beaten by fellow prisoners because he practices a different form of Islam than the majority at the camp.
"Apostate!"
"Oh yeah? Put 'em up!"
None of the incidents resulted in life-threatening injuries to the detainees at the center for U.S. terror suspects, according to the documents, which were obtained by The Associated Press under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
In one incident, two detainees fought after one accused the other of lying to military interrogators about him. In another, detainees threw water and feces at each other repeatedly in a dispute after one sang during the evening Muslim prayer call. In a third, a fight broke out between two men after one accused the other of insulting his family.
"Yer mudder wears a polka-dot burqa!"
"You swine, youse can't talk about my Ma like dat!"
The accounts come from 51 pages of documents that include reports by guards of incidents from November 2003 to May 2005 in which detainees attacked other detainees at the high-security base in eastern Cuba. Military censors have blacked out names and other identifying details of detainees, U.S. troops or other witnesses, and some of the accounts are vague.
It is not clear from the documents whether the detainees were disciplined, but officials at the Navy base have said that inmates who break rules can be segregated, placed in more restrictive settings or lose access to such comforts as chess boards provided by the military.
In a case that prompted an investigation, one detainee told military authorities that he was beaten by inmates and had urine thrown at him because he is a Shiite Muslim and most of the approximately 500 other prisoners are Sunni.
Never saw that coming, did he?
Authorities at Guantanamo found that he had been in a fight - in which he had injuries to his lip, front teeth, cheek and ribs - but they concluded there was no evidence to support his allegation that he has been repeatedly targeted because he is Shiite, according to the documents.
Another inmate claimed that he was beaten and threatened by other inmates because "high-ranking" detainees believed he was a spy. Military authorities found no evidence of any assaults involving the detainee and concluded there was no evidence to back his claims, the documents show.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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and most of the approximately 500 other prisoners are Sunni.
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iranian leaders rejected a European proposal designed to calm Western fears their nuclear program could be used to develop weapons, saying Saturday the offer failed to recognize Iran's right to enrich uranium for peaceful uses.
Germany accused Iran of being "confrontational."
Really? How could you tell?
It and France predicted that unless Iran backed down, the matter would go to the U.N. Security Council for consideration of sanctions. The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency is meeting Tuesday to discuss that possibility.
"The European proposals are unacceptable," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told Iranian state radio. He said the primary reason was the failure to allow Iran to produce enriched uranium, which is a fuel for atomic reactors that generate electricity but also can be used to make nuclear bombs. "We had already announced that any plan has to recognize Iran's right to enrich uranium," Asefi said.
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Iran was taking a "confrontational course" and warned that the rejection would put Iran's nuclear program before the Security Council.
In remarks released by broadcaster ARD, Schroeder said it was up to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, to decide the next step. "One has to expect that it (the IAEA) will put it before the Security Council, if Iran doesn't come round," Schroeder said in an interview broadcast Sunday.
French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy urged the Iranian government to reconsider. "I beg plead for the leaders to take the time to examine the proposals with care," he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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Bet the Euros never saw that coming, did they?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/07/2005 11:25
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Y'know, I do wonder about that... Sometimes Straw & Co seem at least that stupid. He, in particular, has amazed me, at times, with his utterly moronic statements, topping Blair by miles in the socialist / Moonbat toady high jump games. Blair should've dumped him at the last election - wait, can he dump him? Is Blair "in control" of who is in his "cabinet"? Or is he stuck with a rotating collection of party-selected Moonbats? If so, another real-world example of how that squirrelly-assed system prevents progress.
Tony (UK), if you're still with us, can you clarify for me?
#3
Been away for a week .com, but I'll do my best :)
The PM can do more or less what he likes with his cabinet, but he still has to keep the party happy, which can lead to him putting some real 'tards in place (one Peter Hain comes to mind, and several of his 'token' appointments). Teflon Tony is very good at confounding the party though and there's really noone who can take his place. Brown is supposed to be taking over once TT steps down (the infamous restaurant agreement), but his economic 'miracle' is unravelling faster than a cheap jumper, and his standing is not as high as it was. Straw is known as a Rottweiler, but a lot of the legislation they want to push through is stymied by EU abominations such as the 'Human Rights Act', so he's a bit neutered really.
RBers should always remember that this Labour government is very definitely socialist, with all that entails, even with all Blairs' machinations to give it a veneer of respectability.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 12:16
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Straw a Rottweiler? I'm working on wrapping my mind 'round that one, heh. Statements he's made in this EU3 dance have been, well, simply vapid Pollyanna silliness. Maybe that's just his assigned role... But I've been astonished by several of his public pronouncements on Iran, Iraq, NATO, and the EU Constitution, too. Hmmm. I had come to see him as loonier than "TT" by a good margin - and seeming to act semi-autonomously - now I'll have to go back, re-read, and see where I missed the boat on Straw. Hmmm. Thx, I appreciate the take from up close!
#6
Straw's behaved re: MM's as if they have some polaroids of him doing unseemly acts
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 13:43
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#7
This new Iranian president is a hardcore that is way over the top. The Euro's have been doing all they can to keep these worthless talks going offering anything and everthing. The old Iranian pres was willing to buy time and play the footsy game the Euro's love so. This guy just aint with that and dont mind saying so. I saw a article the other day were at a press conference a reporter asked him about the nuke program he simple answered "what concern is it of yours" then the other reporters followed all got the same none of your buisness type answers. No PR at all. I gotta laugh I dont blame him but it is making our job a hell of a lot more easy. The EU this time are just going to look like the PUNKS they are after the Iranians punk them out at these negotiations. From what I have read on this last proposal after the one with all the benefit packages was turned down was that the Euro's countered with a just garantee to us that the nuke program will not be used for weapons purposes & it looks like the Iranian pres again denined.
#8
So what country is providing all the required builing supplies and engeneering support to build a plant that can produce U235? We should go after that country with trade sanctions and destroy them and the businesses that are supporting this.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/07/2005 15:17
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#9
Straw was always seen as 'the hard man' for when Blair needed things done. In this palaver he's as much use as a chocolate teapot - perhaps they have videos as well FrankG!. I've not been following anything much about these Euro proposals because it's pointless - the EU are not going to get Iran to stop their enrichment process or anything else they want to do.
Everyone in this little farce is trying to ignore the 800 lb gorilla sitting in the corner, the US, and are also resolutely ignoring the Israelis, who have a real interest in what's going on.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 16:31
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BAGHDAD, Aug. 6 -- The U.S. ambassador to Iraq pressed the country's Shiite Arab majority on Saturday to respect the rights of women and minorities as political parties worked toward a draft constitution that has stalled on issues that include the role of religion.
U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad issued a statement about equal rights after a meeting with unspecified Iraqi religious leaders. "I assured them that the United States believes strongly that the Iraqi constitution should provide equal rights before the law for all Iraqis regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion or sect," Khalilzad said. "There can be no compromise."
Discussion about the extent to which Iraq's constitution should follow Islamic law have fed fears by some that the Shiite-led governing coalition will impose a strict interpretation of Islam. Iraqi political leaders were scheduled to meet Sunday to seek agreement on outstanding constitutional issues, including the role of religion and the extent of federalism.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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U.S. military seizes letter it says was intended for al-Zarqawi
A letter apparently written by a rebel leader to terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi decries the insurgency's leadership in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, a hotspot in the war.
Security forces seized the letter last week in a raid on a safe house that netted arrests and other items. Task Force Freedom, based in Mosul, issued a copy of the letter and a statement about it Saturday.
The letter, from an insurgent named Abu Zayd, who calls himself "emir of Farming reform battalion on the west side," cited the incompetence of Mosul's emirs and the disobedience of other people in the network.
It discussed "the noticeable decrease in the attacks carried out by the mujahideen" and said that suicide bombings seem to be of more "quantity and not quality."
The letter writer said that collaboration among insurgent leaders is lacking and that "Muslim money" was being squandered on "petty expenses, cars and phones."
He also wrote that "foreign fighters endure 'deplorable' conditions, including lack of pay, housing problems and marginalization."
The letter offer solutions, including replacing the emirs, forming "new symbiotic battalions with diverse experience," and "resolving the housing problem."
"Be attentive to the jihad in Mosul and pursue its development, because the fall of Mosul in the hands of the mujahedeen is possible, and because it relieves the pressure off the other cities such as al-Qaim, Tal Afar," the letter said.
Qaim is in western Iraq near Syria, and Tal Afar is near Mosul.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/07/2005
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Bitch, bitch, bitch....
The freakIslamos are sinking fast. And it ain't gonna get any better.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/07/2005 0:37
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#2
oooooh, a little disgruntled are we?
This is very good news
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 0:48
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Farming reform battalion At a guess this means kicking out Kurdish farmers.
#4
You think is disgruntled soldier's complaints will be aired in the NYT? Nah, I wouldn't think so either. Now if it had been a National Guardsmen from Arizona...
Better put a watch on Kathleen Soliah. This could go domestic in a hurry. I wonder if Pinch Sulzburger has a daughter in college? Better keep an eye on her too.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 9:54
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Every once in a while the NYT shows us why, when they just do straight-up reporting, they're still very, very good. Article on newly-found photos from Ellis Island. Great quote:
"My dad talked very, very little about earlier life," Mr. Glerum, 78, said. "He didn't want us to speak Dutch. He felt that being in America was the greatest thing and that we never needed to learn about the rest."
His recent museum visit was his first to Ellis Island, Mr. Glerum said. "I was really overwhelmed," he added. "Not knowing the language, giving up everything to come over here - I just thought they must have had great courage."
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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#1
If you can hold your nose long enough. Still fish wrap to me.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/07/2005 0:51
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It's strange, but I find that the in-depth articles from the NYT, WaPo, and LAT are often pretty "fair and balanced." 90% of the content of these stories seems to be written by reporters in the field. The really skewed to the left content consists of the hot news items and "instant analysis" that have been compiled from a number of sources (stringers, news services, etc.) and heavily redacted by editors.
All of which is in agreement with my life experiences. If you want to move up in an institution, it's not enough to be good at what you do. You gotta buy in, too. Play golf, adopt the prevailing world view, vote for the right candidates, distort the news in favor of leftist opinions, whatever. Only when things get really screwed up can a Churchill or a Sherman rise to the top.
Aug 6 : Local Jubo Dal leader of Daulatpur badly beaten allegedly by Awami League activists died in Khulna Medical College Hospital this evening.
Locals said Omar Farooq (24) has recently joined Jubo Dal deserting Awami League earning the wrath of his old colleagues. They picked up a quarrel with him in the afternoon and beat up him badly. Rushed to the hospital Farooq died at 7pm.
"Hey Dr. Quincy, here's a fresh one!"
"Great! It's been quiet around here since the RAB has been laying low!"
His sister Lutfa Begum filed a case but none was arrested till late evening.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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Aug 6: Five alleged muggers were arrested after a gunfight with RAB members at Nauzar in Sadar upazila today (Saturday). The arrested were identified as Jahangir, Faruk, Sohag, Daroga Ali and Shariful. Four of themâJahangir, Faruk, Sohag and Aliâwere injured in the gunfight.
Patched up at the Chittagong Medical College ER.
Police said the RAB men in the guise of land traders went to the area where they challenged six muggers who in their desperate bid to escape opened fire on the elite force.
"It's the RAB, lads! Open senseless, poorly aimed fire!"
Four of the miscreants were injured when the RAB members returned fire.
"Ooch! Ouch! Ooch!"
Later, the elite force held one of the miscreants, Shariful.
"Shariful! Let's have a 'conversation'!"
The five miscreants, including the four injured, were handed over to police.
"C'mon chief, can't we 'cross-fire' one of them? Huh?"
"Too many folks is lookin'. Now go find that shutter gun."
One revolver, a knife and another homemade weapon were recovered from the scene.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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Police said the RAB men in the guise of land traders went to the area
The olde land sharks disguise, seen it often. But that was a long time ago, things were different then.
#2
I can't believe that the RAB is going soft. I'm guessing that the regular correspondent is on vacation and they have a temp filling in, and the temp is just taking a few days to get up to speed.
Very long, puts Osama in the Dir Valley with trips to Peshawar and Quetta. Also notes some of the problems in trying to get him. I don't know if this article is good or total nonsense.
#1
Seriously, a man with severe kidney disfunction who needs frequent hospitalization and dialysis, is not a prime candidate for long term survival. You'll note that virtually everything from the top leadership is from Zawahiri, and Mr Big hasn't been heard from for quite some time.
#2
I read the article earlier (if it's the one at Worldnet daily; sounds like it is, and I don't feel like checking) and it contradicted itself in places; it gave as proof that OBL was _not_ in Waziristan or Wana the (imperfect but not noted as such in this article) operations there in 2004 by the Pakistani Army that didn't find anything, but then turns around and says he won't be "found" in Dir by the Pakistani Army because their soldiers believe it would be wrong to betray him to the Americans...
BTW, did they ever find that sort of "evil overlord grade" underground fortress at Tora Bora?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/07/2005 0:27
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Oh, one final note on the subject of WND: we may all be blown up tomorrow, but August 6 has come and gone and we haven't been blown up yet.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/07/2005 0:30
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Sorry but I gave up on Joseph Farah's bullshit years ago. Even a broken clock is right a day. Kinda like WND.
#6
On Sept. 11, 2001, the Pakistan terrorist entity was subject to a US embargo, and was almost out of foreign currency reserves. Musharaf held power by a thread after he led the catastrophic terror war in Kargil. The only thing that saved Mushy and his pig pen country was: US aid. The US government's decision to ally with one of the two gutter entities with Taliban ties (the other being the Saud tyranny), enabled mass harborage of al-Qaeda, notwithstanding the occasional show arrest. Currently, jihadist parties top voter polls in the terror entity. GWB should have chosen a scortched earth campaign against Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies, but instead chose to Americanize the terror entity's
"Pakistan in depth" policy. When indulged, terrorists take license. When subsidized, terrorists escalate terror.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
08/07/2005 3:40
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> Seriously, a man with severe kidney disfunction who needs frequent hospitalization and dialysis, is not a prime candidate for long term survival.
I'm pretty sure that his kidney problems are more an urban legend than reality, unfortunately.
#8
He has very bad nobby stiles from sittin on all those rocks. He has to pop to Peshewar for some anasol once in a while, then he will be out in the open.
Posted by: Kent Mccord ||
08/07/2005 5:10
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I think its nonsense. Predator are not that good. Dir Valley is hardly off limits. $25 million is a lot of money, enough to overcome many people's religious beliefs even if the did belive that ObL is some great religious scholar.
#11
Same here, 2b. A man with his immense ego surely would have found time to make an al-Jizz video by now, shouting Allah this and Jihad that. It's been what, 3 1/2 years now?
#12
Wasn't there an audio tape a couple of months ago?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/07/2005 11:12
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PeriotenalCavo could keep the olde boy ticking over if he does have a kidney complaint. Getting rid of the waste in a socially conscious manner is a bit of a pain tho.
#14
I read this article last night. I didn't know what to think except for one thing that scares me. This article states that Muslims consider Bin Laden to be the Muslim messiah. If this is the case, we've got to take him out. IMO, Binny being considered a Muslim messiah is more dangerous than the terr that he commits.
I hope trolls don't show up on this thread. I really interested in reading a solid debate on this thread from expert RB's on this matter.
#15
I believe our own Dan Darling said the kidney story was bunk - IIRC
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 13:56
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There were reports of him receiving dialysis inside a Pak military hospital in Rawalpindi canonment (headquarters of Pak army).
He probably lives in a mansion in Rawalpindi, guest of a Pak ISI General.
One pak fear is that the US will lose interest if he is caught and the money supply from the US treasury will dry up.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:40
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#17
"Megaton bombs" ?
Please
Megaton bombs were dropped at the rate of 260 a day to ferret out the terrorists.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 14:43
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#18
I don't recall what Dan said about the dialysis story.
I will note that, for patients with end-stage renal failure receiving hemodialysis (in English, people with kidney disease at the end of their rope getting dialysis via cleaning of the blood), the stated mortality is 10% per year of treatment. It's possible for people to be on dialysis long-term, and I've seen a number of patients like that, but very often problems crop up -- especially infection -- and they die. This is one of the reasons why the kidney docs push so hard for transplants; while transplant patients certainly have their set of problems, the mortality per year is substantially lower.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 18:40
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#20
By most accounts, bin Laden is situated in that part of the world where one can buy body parts on the street. If all he needs is new kidneys, no doubt that was taken care of long ago.
BAGHDAD - Iraqâs leaders will attempt to break the deadlock on a new draft constitution in a national conference here on Sunday amid signs that Iraqâs Kurds are unwilling to compromise on their demands for autonomy.
Yep, here comes the deal-breaker.
Iraqi Kurds have rejected suggestions the country should be proclaimed an Islamic state in the new constitution and refused to compromise on the incorporation of oil-rich Kirkuk into their autonomous northern region.
Massoud Barzani, the president of Iraqâs autonomous Kurdistan, assured Kurdish MPs that he would insist on federalism and retaining the Kurdish peshmerga militia when he meets Iraqi leaders to discuss the constitution Sunday in Baghdad. âWe will not accept that Iraqâs identity is Islamic,â Barzani told the autonomous Kurdistan parliament in Arbil on Saturday.
He also rejected suggestions that Iraq be termed an Arab nation. âLet Arab Iraq be part of the Arab nation -- we are not,â the Kurdish leader said.
Good for him. Stand tall.
Barzani arrived in Baghdad late Saturday to participate in the national conference Sunday. âThis is a golden chance for Kurds and Kurdistan - if we donât do what is important for Kurdistan, there will be no second chance. We will not make our final decision in Baghdad, the Kurdish parliament will decide,â he said.
The emergency meeting of the Kurdish parliament had prompted a two-day postponement of the national conference to break the constitutional deadlock. The deadlock revolves around federalism, the official languages of the new Iraq, the relation between religion and state, the rights of women and the future of Kirkuk. âThere are many things which need more discussion and dialogue,â said the regional parliamentâs speaker, Adnan Mufti, a senior official in the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the political party of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.
Mufti said the Kurds would be ready to endorse the charter âif everyone thinks like us -- that the new constitution should be for all Iraqis.â
Kurds are determined to make good on proposals laid out in the countryâs interim law, signed in March 2004, that this policy be reversed and Kurds returned to the city. âWe believe the new constitution must uphold (the interim agreements made over Kirkuk) and nothing less -- we want normalisation,â Mufti said.
The national conference is due to report back by August 12, and Iraqi leaders have insisted they are on track to complete a final draft for debate by parliament by August 15 ahead of a referendum in mid-October.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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What? Something about Sharia law the Kurds aren't warming up to?
But, the grand muckity muck, Sustani, wants Islamic law to prevail. Just like it does with their neighors, the Islamic Regime of Iran.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/07/2005 0:46
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BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A letter allegedly written by an insurgent to the head of Al-Qaida in Iraq complained of the lack of leadership in the northern terrorist cell in Mosul, according to excerpts provided by the U.S. military Saturday. The letter, written to Jordanian leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi by a fighter calling himself Abu Zayd, was discovered by U.S. forces during a raid on an insurgent safe house in Mosul on July 27, the U.S command said. During the raid, six suspects were detained.
He complains that the Mosul leadership of the Al-Qaida in Iraq branch is incompetent, lacks training, and does not collaborate. The letter's authenticity could not be independently verified. The letter also criticizes "the lack of diversity in the attacks, and the unwillingness to go after the centers and headquarters especially when they are easy targets, and being content with sending suicide bombers after armored vehicles." Also on the list of complaints: "squandering the Muslims' money on petty expenses, hookers, cars and phones."
He ends with the warning that al-Zarqawi need to "be attentive to the Jihad in Mosul and pursue its development." Otherwise, "the fall of Mosul in the hands of the mujahedeen is possible, and because it relieves the pressure off the other cities such as Qaim and Tal Afar."
His complaints echoed similar concerns raised in a letter written by a terrorist cell leader who fought in Fallujah and discovered during a raid in Baghdad in May, the military said. Earlier this year, U.S. troops arrested several key al-Qaida leaders in Mosul, including the head of the branch. Al-Qaida in Iraq is led by al-Zarqawi and has claimed responsibility for numerous bombings, kidnap-slaying of foreign diplomats, beheadings of U.S. and other foreign hostages and suicide attacks.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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AN undercover investigation has caught leaders of a radical Islamic group inciting young British Muslims to become terrorists and praising the Tube bombers as âthe fantastic fourâ. A Sunday Times reporter spent two months as a recruit inside the Saviour Sect to reveal for the first time how the extremist group promotes hatred of ânon-believersâ and encourages its followers to commit acts of violence including suicide bombings.
This, friends, is what real reporters do.
The reporter witnessed one of the sectâs leading figures, Sheikh Omar Brooks, telling a young audience, including children, that it was the duty of Muslims to be terrorists and boasting, just days before the July 7 attacks, that he wanted to die as a suicide bomber. After the attacks that claimed 52 lives, another key figure, Zachariah, justified them by saying that the victims were not âinnocentâ people because they did not abide by strict Islamic laws. In the immediate aftermath the sectâs leader, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said: âFor the past 48 hours Iâm very happy.â Two weeks later he referred to the bombers as the âfantastic fourâ.
The evidence compiled by The Sunday Times in hours of transcripts and tapes will lend weight to moves, announced last week by Tony Blair, to proscribe such organisations for providing a breeding ground for would-be terrorists. The attorney-generalâs office said last night it would investigate the recent comments by a number of Islamic radicals with a view to prosecution.
The Saviour Sect was established 10 months ago when its predecessor group Al-Muhajiroun was disbanded after coming under close scrutiny by the authorities. Its members meet in secret in halls, followersâ homes and parks. They are so opposed to the British state that they see it as their duty to make no economic contribution to the nation. One member warned our undercover reporter against getting a job because it would be contributing to the kuffar (non-Muslim) system. Instead, the young follower, Nasser, who receives £44 job seekersâ allowance a week, said it was permissible to âlive off benefitsâ, just as the prophet Mohammed had lived off the state while attacking it at the same time. Even paying car insurance was seen as supporting the system. âAll the (Saviour Sect) brothers drive without insurance,â he said.
The reporter became a member of the sect three weeks before the July 7 bombings. From the start he was taught that it was his duty to destroy the kuffar. Moderate Muslims who did not believe in the overthrow of the British government and its replacement by an Islamic state were held in equal disdain. Within days of joining, he witnessed seven Saviour Sect members beating up a member of the moderate Young Muslim Organisation in an East End street because they believed he had insulted their version of Islam.
Last week Omar Brooks stirred controversy with televised comments, but they were carefully chosen to avoid appearing to incite violence. On Saturday, July 2 he had been more forthright. Speaking to a group of teenagers and families, he declared it was imperative for Muslims to âinstil terror into the hearts of the kuffarâ and added: âI am a terrorist. As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist.â The 30-year-old, who claims to have had military training in Pakistan, said he did not want to go to Allah while sleeping in his bed âlike an old womanâ. Instead: âI want to be blown into pieces with my hands in one place and my feet in another.â
In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: âYes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.â Yesterday Bakri said he had no connections to a group in east London but said that he did attend prayers and preach to up to 15 people. He denied using the words âfantastic fourâ.
Well, Bakri, in the words of one of the real Fantastic Four; "It's clobbering time!".
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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Arrest him and execute him, fast. Rinse, repeat with all Moslem leaders who --like their prophet Mohammed and Omar Brooks-- advocate taqiya, sharia, and jihad against the non-Moslems.
#2
Why should we tolerate that. Round all of them up and send them back.. Tony Blair said the gloves are off, now its time to get rid of these parasites.
All the (Saviour Sect) brothers drive without insurance,â They are a bunch of LOSER's that have found a cause, they would be failures in any society, then they read the Koran and all of a sudden have a purpose, the exciting so called holy war. If they had an ounce of intelligence, they would see that everything they read is bullshit.. A bullet is the only solution for these people.
Posted by: I P Daley ||
08/07/2005 4:34
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#3
my comment to the duplicate above is the same: This is REAL reporting.
BEIJING (AP) - Envoys to deadlocked North Korean nuclear talks will take a recess, the Chinese government announced Sunday after a record 13 days of meetings failed to bring agreement on a joint statement meant to guide future negotiations. The talks were scheduled to resume Aug. 29. A senior Chinese diplomat, Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei, warned that even after talks resume, "I can't say for sure that we will reach agreement." The decision was announced after chiefs of delegations from the six governments met Sunday in a final attempt to agree on a joint statement of principles to guide future talks aimed at persuading North Korea to disarm. Wu announced the suspension to reporters gathered on the lawn outside the building where the talks took place. Governments taking part in the talks include the two Koreas, the United States, China, Japan and Russia.
"During the recess, the six parties will report to their respective governments and study ways to solve the differences. And they are supposed to maintain contact and consultations during that recess," Wu said. Wu also issued a chairman's statement that said the six parties "reaffirmed that the goal of the six-party talks is the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula in a peaceful manner and agreed to issue a common paper to this end." U.S. envoy, Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill had said he hoped to use the meeting with his North Korean counterpart, Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan, to discuss how to speed up negotiations.
The dispute erupted in late 2002 after U.S. officials said the North admitted violating a 1994 deal by embarking on a secret uranium enrichment program. Pyongyang later withdrew from the international Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The North claimed in February that it had nuclear weapons. Pyongyang says it will not give up such weapons until Washington discards its "hostile policies" toward the North, removes any nuclear threat from the Korean Peninsula and normalizes relations with the country's Stalinist government. The North also wants aid in exchange for freezing nuclear development, and then more for dismantling the program. Washington wants to see it verifiably dismantled before providing any rewards.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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#1
Same old shit. Just like the Viet-Nam talks. They are stalled on deciding on a joint satement of what they will talk about??? This is typical communist style dealy tactics, nothing but crap and a waste of everyones time. I say we should give ol Kim what he wants, lots of nukes, or just one over his house and then the North Koreans will finally be free.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/07/2005 11:46
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NOUAKCHOTT, Mauritania - This desert nationâs new military strongman has assured politicians that no member of the 17-man junta that seized power this week will stand in elections they say will take place in less than two years.
"Unless the people need me, of course."
Ahmed Ould Daddah, a top politician who heads the opposition Rally of Democratic Forces, said coup leader Ely Ould Mohamed Vall made the pledge during a meeting Saturday with heads of more than 30 political parties in the capital, Nouakchott. Vall also promised that elections would be held after a âtransition period that will not last longer than two years,â Ould said.
And if you can't believe an African military thug who's just seized power, who can you believe?
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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#1
I'm still waiting to see what these birds do before passing judgement. Remember the big things they noted about el dictator: he had diplomatic relations with Israel, he was strongly anti-Islamist, and he had the support of the African Dictator's Union. At this point, the ball is in their court.
BEIJING (AP) - Envoys to deadlocked North Korean nuclear talks will take a recess, the Chinese government announced Sunday after a record 13 days of meetings failed to bring agreement on a joint statement meant to guide future negotiations. The talks were scheduled to resume Aug. 29.
Comes as a surprise, huh?
A senior Chinese diplomat, Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei, warned that even after talks resume, ``I can't say for sure that we will reach agreement.''
Ya don't say.
The decision was announced after chiefs of delegations from the six governments met Sunday in a final attempt to agree on a joint statement of principles to guide future talks aimed at persuading North Korea to disarm.
Wu announced the suspension to reporters gathered on the lawn outside the building where the North Korean delegates were grazing talks took place. ``During the recess, the six parties will report to their respective governments and study ways to solve the differences. And they are supposed to maintain contact and consultations during that recess,'' Wu said. Wu also issued a chairman's statement that said the six parties ``reaffirmed that the goal of the six-party talks is the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula in a peaceful manner and agreed to issue a common paper to this end.''
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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#1
Yup, just issue a paper. Right. That'll fix it. Works every time...
#2
It will never happen. Nex they will argue on what type of paper. The NK govt only understands brute force. They don't care if we embargo them and starve their people to death. They will understand predator flights over the palace.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/07/2005 11:49
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ISLAMABAD â A militant suspected of bringing murdered US reporter Daniel Pearl to his kidnappers has confessed he was working for two key Al Qaeda-linked operatives, police said on Saturday.
I see the Pakistani Olympic Truncheon team is still in fine form.
Mohammad Hashim Qadir was arrested last month in Gujranwala in the central province of Punjab. Security sources believe he set up a meeting between Pearl and militants who later kidnapped and killed him. âHe has confessed to his role in the Pearl case and to some robberies,â Gujranwala police chief Zafar Abbas told Reuters. No-one was available to give comment from Qadir himself.
And he wasn't feeling up to any press comments, either.
Abbas did not say what part Qadir, also known as Arif, played in the Wall Street Journal reporterâs abduction and murder, but said he had admitted taking instructions from two militants who played key roles in the plot. âHe confessed he was receiving orders from Omar Sheikh and Amjad Farooqi.â
British-born Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, commonly known as Omar Sheikh, was sentenced to death in 2002 for masterminding the murder, but is still in jail awaiting an appeal hearing.
Surprised they didn't release him on a recognizance bond ...
Amjad Hussain Farooqi was named as a conspirator in the Pearl case, and was considered a key link between local militants and Al Qaeda planner Abu Faraj Farj Al Libbi, who was captured in Pakistan in May. Farooqi, who was also implicated in assassination plots against President Pervez Musharraf, was killed by security forces in the southern city of Nawabshah in September last year.
Not clear whether even his mother misses him ...
Investigators in Karachi, where Pearl was murdered, say Qadir acted as a go-between for Sheikh and Farooqi.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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#1
Is that suprise meter back from repair, yet? I hope we have spare units.
"No-one was available to give comment from Qadir himself."
9 out 10 MD's agree that talking with only a fourth of a tongue can be difficult.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 16:52
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#5
Australian TV Interview with Perv
MARK DAVIS: Yes, but what they are specifically saying on the banned groups, they're saying, "Well, you have banned them, but you haven't done much else. " That they have been renamed, they have been reformed, very few arrests, very few serious crackdowns - so they are just challenging the perception that you re actually doing anything, fairly or unfairly. One of the groups you have banned is Lashkar-e-Tayiba. One of their graduates is of interest in Australia - Willie Brigitte was recently discovered in Australia, allegedly with plans to blow something up, again it's widely believed and according to that ICG report, that Lashkar-e-Tayiba is still functioning in Pakistan. Now, you may say these groups aren't threatening Pakistan, but they are threatening other countries. Is it acceptable that they can survive in any form?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Lashkar-e-Tayiba has not been banned, this has not been banned. Lashkar-e-Tayiba is not threatening anybody. Who has told you that they are threatening anybody? It is Jaish-e-Muhammed which threatens and Jaish-e-Muhammed is banned.
MARK DAVIS: Willie Brigitte, who is now in French custody, allegedly had plans to. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Who?
MARK DAVIS: A man named Willie Brigitte, he's now in French custody. He said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan, he was discovered in Australia, apparently with plans to blow something up. There's another Australian, David Hicks, who is now in Guantanamo Bay. He trained with Lashkar-e-Tayiba. He says that he was given training by the Pakistani army in Kashmir. So these groups do seem to be growing rather beyond any Kashmiri or any Pakistani issues.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: It is very clear as far as we are concerned. Let's leave Kashmir aside. In Kashmir there is a freedom struggle going on and the people of Pakistan are emotionally involved with it. This is a 50-year-old dispute and we better resolve it politically. Let's leave that aside. We don't think there is any terrorism going on there. Now if anybody is carrying out terrorism around the world, we certainly are against it and we would like to act against it. Now the name that you are taking, frankly I don't know about that.
MARK DAVIS: I might just clarify that - it might be a pronunciation problem of mine - Lashkar-e-Tayiba - I mean this is not a banned group?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, no, no, this is certainly not a banned group.
MARK DAVIS: They are on a watch list, though, you've put them on a watch list have you?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Yes, yes.
MARK DAVIS: So they are on a watch list but they are not banned?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No.
MARK DAVIS: The American have just taken into custody a group of them in Iraq, outside of Baghdad, that they say, were operating. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, I think we are mistaken there. I don't think Lashkar-e-Tayiba has come out anywhere. That is not the reality, I don't think so. Maybe you are talking of Jaish-e-Muhammad, which is the main troublesome organisation which has been. . .
MARK DAVIS: Now, it's now known as JD, so is JD still. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD is Jaish-e-Muhammad.
MARK DAVIS: Yeah.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD? I don't know. Jaish-e-Muhammad is the one which an extreme organisation and the leader is underground. We will get hold of him at any time, we are trying to look for him.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 20:14
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KATHMANDU - Five children abducted by Maoists from schools in eastern Nepalâs Taplegunj district have escaped their captors, Nepalese media reports said on Saturday.
They weren't kidnapped, it was just, um, ... summer camp. From Hell.
The children, all under 14 years of age, escaped last Tuesday, local media said. According to the private Image Metro television channel, the children were forced by the Maoists to join the rebel groupâs militia. The Nepalese internet news portal Kantipuronline quoted its correspondent in the district, about 300 kilometres from Kathmandu, as saying that the Maoists resorted to beating the children when they expressed their desire to go home. âThe Maoists used to beat me when I said I wanted to go to my parents,â 12-year-old Ashok was quoted as saying.
Yup, Maoists are just warm and fuzzy when they're around kids ...
Meanwhile, at least 65 people including 20 students were abducted by Maoists in western Nepal Wednesday and Thursday, media reports said Saturday. Security sources in the Nepalese capital said 20 persons were abducted in the Doti district, about 500 kilometres west of Kathmandu, and 20 students were taken in the Bajura district, about 460 kilometres west of the capital.
Village defense forces need more weapons.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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Two senior al-Qaeda operatives in Saudi Arabia made money transfers and used coded text messages to communicate with suspected terrorists in Britain before last month's attacks in London, according to officials in the kingdom. The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead. Younis Mohammed Ibrahim al-Hayari, allegedly al-Qaeda's leader in Saudi Arabia, was killed in Riyadh three weeks ago and Abdel Karim al-Mejati died in a shoot-out in the central al-Qassim region in April. Saudi security officials suspect both men of involvement in the attacks in London on July 7 and 21 and say that al-Qaeda is definitely operating in Britain. "It's beyond doubt they're active in your country," said one.
Huge amounts of chemicals and other bomb-making materials were found at al-Hayari's hideout. Al-Mejati is said to have planned the train bombings in Madrid in March last year. The Sunday Telegraph revealed last week that Scotland Yard was investigating evidence that the two waves of terrorist attacks in London were also planned in Saudi Arabia. In an exclusive interview, Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador to London, said this week that his country had warned Britain less than four months ago that such an attack was pending. Scotland Yard is investigating who received the coded messages and money - transferred from Saudi to Britain via businesses at both ends before July this year. A Saudi security adviser said: "We are trying to establish whether the money was directly linked to the individuals who carried out either the first or the second sets of bombings in London. The messages and the money transfers were highly professional. They were using SIM cards for six hours and then throwing them away."
Last week The Sunday Telegraph revealed that Hussain Osman, 27, the suspected failed Shepherd's Bush bomber, had called a mobile phone in Saudi Arabia shortly before his arrest. Saudi security officials said Osman was phoning his parents, of Ethiopian extraction, while travelling by Eurostar from London to Rome. They are believed to have been living in the Jeddah area, near the Red Sea, for several years. The call was monitored by a British intelligence agency as Osman spoke first to his mother and then to his father. His parents are not suspected of involvement in terrorism.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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"The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead."
That takes care of the trail back. But killing your cut-outs has to be tough on your organizational capabilities if you do it on every mission.
PETROPAVLOVSK-KAMCHATSKY, Russia (AP) - A Russian mini-submarine that was trapped for nearly three days under the Pacific Ocean surfaced Sunday after a British remote-controlled vehicle cut away the undersea cables that had snarled it, news agencies reported.
The AS-28 made an emergency surfacing and appeared on the water at around 4:26 p.m. local time, ITAR-Tass and RIA-Novosti reported. The condition of the vessel's seven-member crew was not immediately known, though naval officials had been in regular contact with the crew, who faced dwindling oxygen and chilly temperatures.
Excellent news.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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#1
wonderful news
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 0:05
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PETROPAVLOVSK-KAMCHATSKY, Russia -- All seven people aboard the Russian mini-submarine pulled to the surface Sunday are alive, Russian naval officials said.
Naval spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said the crew appeared to be in satisfactory condition and were being examined by ship medics. The sub was raised after becoming stranded in 600 feet of water off the Pacific Coast on Thursday.
"The rescue operation has ended," Rear Adm. Vladimir Pepelyayev, deputy head of the navy's general staff, said in televised comments.
#3
Thank goodness the United Nations maintains such an excellent rapid response force. The nations of the world know they can turn to Kofi & Co. when they get in a jam.
#7
Major tip of the hat to the British Navy. Well done gentlemen.Very, very well done.
Posted by: Mark Z. ||
08/07/2005 6:53
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#8
Put it in the "win" column.
Posted by: Mike ||
08/07/2005 8:42
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#9
They're safe. Now, whose undersea antena was it, theirs?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 9:43
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#10
yeah the british had their equipment there almost a full day ahead of america didn't they? America was just trying too waste a few million $'s bullshittin around when the moeny could have been kept here too help the ppl of this country who need it.
#11
Thraing -
We moved as fast as we could. To even IMPLY anything else is to insult the men and women who moved heaven and earth to help those Russians.
I hope you will not take it amiss if I ask you to sit down and STFU.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/07/2005 10:33
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#12
I need more money too, Ima cant spel good. Pleae helerper me thraing!
#15
Here we find that: "The United States Navy is credited with advancing the technology to an operational state in its quest to develop robots to recover underwater ordnance lost during at-sea tests. ROVs gained in fame when US Navy CURV (Cable Controlled Underwater Recovery Vehicle) systems recovered an atomic bomb lost off Palomares, Spain in an aircraft accident in 1966, and then saved the pilots of the sunken submersible Pisces off Cork, Ireland in 1973, with only minutes of air remaining in the submersible.
The next step in advancing the technology was performed by commercial firms that saw the future in ROV support of offshore oil operations. The transition from military use to the commercial world was rather rapid. Manufacturing companies like International Submarine Engineering in British Columbia, Perry Oceanographic in Riviera Beach, Florida, and Hydro Products and Ametek Strata in San Diego, California were quick to begin commercial activity based on work done for the military."
And here we discover that Ametek Strata of San Diego manufactures the Scorpio ROV's - though they fail to give due credit to the USN for the decades of engineering development they got for free.
#16
NOSC at Ballast Point sub base here in San Diego has developed much of the sub tech lately, spun it off to private for R&D and reaped benefits. I wou;dn't be too harsh, PD
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 14:48
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#17
H'okay. My tax dollars at work saving Russian sailors for Puttyputz. Sounds, um, well, nevermind...
#18
I'm going to clip this story out and keep it in my archives for the near future! I'm sorry we asked to help; and I'm sorry the British succeeded! With Russia now 'siding' with China; conducting war games which eventually will be used to threaten the US, why didn't the Ruskies let the Chinese go down there and save them?!
#22
On second thought, I'll go take a nap and you can stay here posturing and beating your breast over something I didn't say. Knock yourself out. Here's a hammer.
#25
I'd agree with: some things we do because they're the right thing to do. Karma on a National scale isn't the same as I try to do on my individual scale, except that, some things we do because "that's who/what we are".
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 16:26
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#26
Frank - Of course it is, but I posed a few questions there in the next to last paragraph that beg closer examination, no? Why no MASH units with security troops to Sudan, etc x infinity? If we're gonna do the right thing cuz we can, well, there ya go - there's a few thousands things we could be doing everyday. Let's get on it, if that's who/what we are.
Pappy / lotp -- How lame and pathetic. My English isn't good enough for you? I declare, that's gonna keep me up nights worrying...
Did I say what you imply? No - Skid Mark Nitwit did.
I walked away from the conclusion you drew with: "Sounds, um, well, nevermind..."
The problem is that you're uber-sensitive on this - and jumped-the-shark - which means you musta been a squid. Fine. That's YOUR burden.
My comments up to this point imply no more than exactly what I did say.
But, if you wanna play morality games, an extremely pointless exercise which can easily be demonstrated, well... (Oh no! Another ellipsis where he didn't state precisely what he meant! He's sooo Evil!) Let's take this to the next level - an actual examination of reality - versus your knee-jerkism.
People get into bad situations. All over the World. Everyday. But what happens when a sub gets stranded? Well it's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Just think about all the times we could help somewhere in the world to save some group of people - and we don't. Why? well, that's actually a mighty fine question, isn't it? Why does one situation get such a response and another doesn't? Why do men trapped in a sub running out of air or miners trapped - same end looming, generate instantaneous outpourings of public concern? Curious.
If you want a pissing contest, cuz you're so morally superior and decent and I'm pond scum, well, Okay - come 'n get it. Meanwhile, kiss my ass. Both of you. You didn't ask if I meant that, you just carved off a cliff and jumped. I've been here a long time, there's lots of history you can go by, but you didn't bother. Fine. You drew false conclusions - likely because of what Skid Mark Nitwit said. That I didn't say it got lost in the noise you call your thought process. That you say it's my fault for not "tyring" to be clearer makes me wonder why you didn't ask me first, but hey - your call. And this response is my call. Believe it or not, you are not my moral betters. Boggles, no? Here I am, fire away.
#27
granted - the Russians would have little to no effort on our behalf, or Sudan, or whenever not in their direct benefit. I take that as a comment on their ethics rather than ours. That's what makes us better
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 16:51
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#34
Meanwhile, kiss my ass. Both of you. You didn't ask if I meant that, you just carved off a cliff and jumped. I've been here a long time, there's lots of history you can go by, but you didn't bother. Fine. You drew false conclusions - likely because of what Skid Mark Nitwit said.
Then I deeply apologise for misinterpreting what you said.
People get into bad situations. All over the World. Everyday. But what happens when a sub gets stranded? Well it's pretty amazing, isn't it?
#35
This is from the Moscow News via Joel at bubbleheads.blogspot.com
"Admiral Eduard Baltin, former commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet said on Saturday that it was a mistake to ask NATO countries for help in rescuing the crew of the Russian mini-submarine stranded on the Pacific floor since Thursday because âthis region is stuffed with [Russian military] secretsâ, Interfax reports.
"The region hosts âthe main base for the strategic nuclear submarines of the Pacific Fleet, which NATO itself has nicknamed a waspsâ nest. A secret cable runs through the area and a foreign submarine detection system is located here too,â Hero of the Soviet Union Adm. Eduard Baltin told Interfax.
"According to Baltin, Russian Navy should have been able to rescue the AS-28 mini-sub without difficulty, using manipulators at its disposal, and blowing up the cable, in which the mini-sub got caught. The admiral also expressed surprise that the Pacific Fleet command had said openly that the sub had got caught on an underwater antenna instead of âan underwater object.â âThis antenna is one of the main components of an active system for the long-range detection of submarines,â he said."
See! We can find things to agree about. Warm Milk! All around!
#39
Responding to the sub in distress was the right thing to do. If we get any intel on the way, that's good, too. But the mission was to save lives and the mission was successful.
The Russians, if they want to stay in the sub business, better get their own program out of the doldrums and be ready for their own emergencies. We may become too busy in the future to spare the iron on their f*ck-ups.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/07/2005 22:25
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#40
Sierras and fishing trip it was - photos were sent as promised to AP - he can disseminate as he sees fit :-)
also Bodie - a ghost town in the Sierras at 8700+' above sea level (nice hiking....ack!)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 23:28
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#41
I bet we knew all that stuff was there and have for years. If we didn't shame on us.
This is bad according to the NYT, of course, since it's bad for us to be there, bad to leave, bad to stay, natter natter natter ...
NEW YORK - The top US Middle East commander has outlined a plan that would reduce US forces in Iraq by some 20,000 to 30,000 by next spring, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.
Citing three unnamed of course senior military officers and Defense Department officials, The Times said that the assessment by Gen. John Abizaid, the head of the militaryâs Central Command, was contained in a classified briefing given to senior Pentagon officials last month. The plan was in line with Gen. George Caseyâs remarks in a briefing late last month with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that Washington hoped to reduce US forces in Iraq sharply within the next year.
âI do believe that if the political process continues to go positively, if the developments with the (Iraqi) security forces continue to go as it is going, I do believe we will still be able to make fairly substantial reductions after these elections -- in the spring and summer of next year,â Casey, the US commander in Iraq, told Rumsfeld on July 27.
However, Abizaid added the caveat in his assessment that it was possible that the Pentagon might have to keep the current levels of some 138,000 US soldiers in Iraq through 2006 if security and political trends do not favor a withdrawal, The Times said.
President George W. Bush has consistently refused to set a date for withdrawal from Iraq, reiterating on Wednesday that the timetable, âdepends on our ability to train the Iraqis, to get the Iraqis ready to fight.â
The number of troops is expect to increase temporarily in December to about 160,000 troops, achieved through overlapping the normal rotation of incoming forces and those who have finished their tours, to provide security for elections to a new National Assembly, scheduled for Dec. 15, The Times said.
âGeneral Abizaid has consistently understood that if conditions on the ground warrant it, a smaller coalition footprint could bolster self-government in Iraq,â said Lawrence Di Rita, the chief Pentagon spokesman.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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New York Times - the nagging wife of the world. It spends years haraunging the military and president to get out and as soon as it even thinks about it they start to blame them for cutting and running. These days I put more stock into the Enquirer than I do the NYT, and trust me, that's not much. It is truly amazing that their board members don't grasp the loss of value that has been squandered in "goodwill". It's like watching a nervous breakdown what's going on there.
#2
That's rehashed news from last month. Sooner or later MSM are going to be right, like with Bin Laden's and Zarqawi's death or any other stories based on speculations.
#3
Dr. White, as a moderator, you should be concerned about the credibility of the links established here. I'm surprised to see you lowering the credibility of the Burg by using sources like the NYT.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 9:42
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#4
I don't know why people are always bashing the NYT. Scrappleface and The Onion make up stuff all the time and nobody gives them crap about it.
#7
Scrappleface and teh Onion are right more often than the NYT - it's a credibility thang. Oh yeah, and they don't pay MoDo for her hyperadolescent rants against all men
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 14:12
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#8
But Scrappleface is at least believable. Come to think of it, The Onion is believable, too, if you are the Beijing news service.
NEW DELHI - Nuclear rivals India and Pakistan on Saturday agreed to notify each other before testing any ballistic missiles and to set up a hotline between their foreign secretaries, they said in a common statement. In a bid to prevent an accidental nuclear exchange âIndia and Pakistan have agreed to pre-notify each other before any missile test and have also agreed to set up a hotline between the foreign secretaries,â they said.
"Hello, Perv? Yep, it's me. Lissen, remember the pre-notification arrangement? You do? Great, great. Lissen, I'm giving you pre-notification. You've got, um, 60, no wait, 55 seconds, to get out of your house before our 'test' missile vaporizes it. No, 50. You still there?"
Indian Foreign Ministry senior official Meera Shankar said both sides had agreed âto operationalize the hotline between the two foreign secretariesâ and upgrade an existing military hotline by September.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005
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Will they get big red phones like the one that's in Commissioner Gordon's office?
#2
I figure the Indians are most partial to their own Military Academy (naturally) and after that Sandhurst, but perhaps we can persuade a few more to matriculate at the USMA. It would be a good thing for all.
Rita and Teresa served the United States Government with distinction for four decades. They played their part in its nascent space program and then later made an important contribution to medical research.
Now, as they reach their dotage, America is doing its bit for them. The inseparable duo were the first residents of a thoroughly modern retirement home built deep in the woods of north-western Louisiana.
What makes the facility unique is that the taxpayer-funded project is not a nursing home for humans but a "retirement sanctuary" for chimpanzees who have spent their lives toiling away for Uncle Sam. It is called Chimp Haven.
#3
Here in a picture of Mister Ham. A real great ape. On his Mercury prescurrsor flight everytime he hit the correct switch he got a shock to his feet, still, being a great ape he followed thru with the flight plan.
TERRORISTS could be preparing to use women and children as suicide bombers in further attacks on trains and other soft targets in London, internal Scotland Yard documents have warned. Official âstop and searchâ guidance just issued to thousands of Metropolitan police officers indicates that police fear the bombers may be planning to change their tactics. âTerrorists will try to use our actions against us and will adapt their methods (use women or even children),â the document states. The paper contains advice to officers exercising their powers under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The rules govern the conduct of the 6,000 officers who have been deployed across the capital to stop a possible third terror cell following on from the July 7 atrocities and the failed July 21 attacks.
The paper was released this weekend on the order of Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, in an effort to defuse the row over claims that police are singling out Asian and black men during street searches. Under the rules, Met officers have been told to avoid âracial profilingâ and ânot to focus on specific groupsâ. The advice adds: âBe aware that there is no specific racial, ethnic, sexual or religious profile for terrorists.â Blair insisted the new advice was not dictated by political correctness. âEverythingâs got to be intelligence-based,â he said. âIf we said the only people to be searched are young males who are of Caribbean or Asian or north African appearance it would be handing the objectives to the terrorists and they would immediately change their tactics.â He was talking after Ian Johnston, chief constable of the British Transport police, which guards the Tube and train network, suggested his officers had been told to single out Muslim and African men as the most likely terrorist suspects. âWe should not waste time searching old white ladies,â he said.
The disclosure of the Yardâs guidance comes as transport police draw up plans for elite âsniper squadsâ to combat the threat of suicide bombers. Between 150 and 200 firearms specialists are to be recruited as part of a nationwide drive to stop further attacks on the transport system. The unit will be modelled on Scotland Yardâs SO19 firearms unit, whose officers shot dead Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent Brazilian, after mistaking him for a suicide bomber 16 days ago.
The move will see armed officers regularly patrolling the Underground and the rail network for the first time. Crack sniper squads and close-quarter âhit teamsâ such as the one that killed Menezes will be on permanent stand-by to deal with suspected suicide bombers.
Blair said he planned to recruit several hundred more armed officers to bolster the number already licensed to carry guns. He is also in talks with the Home Office for an extra 500 or 600 officers to boost the Metâs counter-terrorist capability. The move would effectively double the size of the anti-terrorist branch. Blair also repeated his call for a national border control agency to make it more difficult for terrorists to enter and leave the country. The Sunday Times revealed last week that Hussain Osman â also known as Hamdi Isaac â one of the men arrested over the failed July 21 attacks, had managed to leave Britain on the Eurostar train.
Yassin Omar, 24, has been charged over one of the failed attempts to bomb three London Tube trains and a bus on July 21. He faces charges of conspiracy to murder and possession of an explosive substance in connection with the bombing attempt at Warren Street station. Omar, from New Southgate, London, will appear before Bow Street magistrates tomorrow.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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#1
This war requires a lot of clarity.
For instance, while Jean Charles de Menezes was a Brazilian shot dead because he was mistakenly and through his own stupid behaviour feared to be a suicide bomber, he was most certainly not an "innocent".
Being an illegal alien and having a fake visa stamp in one's passport is in a league with how terrorists operate. That's not --yet-- cause for being shot, but it's very far from being innocent.
#2
âIf we said the only people to be searched are young males who are of Caribbean or Asian or north African appearance it would be handing the objectives to the terrorists and they would immediately change their tactics.â
Err, come again? There *is* a profile for these 'people' - they were all of Caribbean, Asian or north African appearance. None of them were little old ladies from Worthing for example, but that would be 'racial profiling' for example.
And this "Be aware that there is no specific racial, ethnic, sexual or religious profile for terrorists." is just pathetic.
This is just another nail in the multi-culti coffin.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 4:54
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#3
Unfortunately, the pigs are not above using physically and mentally handicapped to be turned into human bombs if the Iraqi election is any indication of the uncivilized behavior of these creatures.
#4
It's a good thing that the fashion of the moment calls for tight shirts on young women. That eliminates at least one group from needing closer scrutiny.
#5
TW, You seem to have forgotten the 62 year old grandmother convicted of assualt when the TSA obergruppeninspector decided to cop a long feel. Or maybe the blouse wasn't tight enough.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 10:14
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#6
True, Mrs. D. My memory is a bit porous these days, I'm afraid. Still, think of all those other young ladies, who did not get such a close inspection.
HIROSHIMA, Japan (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of people from around the world gathered in Hiroshima on Saturday to renew calls for the abolition of nuclear arms on the 60th anniversary of the atomic bombing of the city. I'm sure North Korea and Iran will head the call....
Under a blazing summer sun, survivors and families of victims assembled at the Peace Memorial Park near "ground zero", the spot where the bomb detonated on August 6, 1945, killing thousands and levelling the city.
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi was among those attending the ceremony in Hiroshima, 690 km (430 miles) southwest of Tokyo. At 8:15 a.m., the time when the U.S. B-29 warplane Enola Gay dropped the bomb, people at the park and throughout the city observed a minute's silence in memory of those who perished.
No word on whether there was a moment in memory of those who died in the Bataan Death March.
Bells at temples and churches rang and passengers on the streetcars that run throughout the city bowed their heads in remembrance of the dead, including those incinerated while riding the streetcars.
"This August 6 ... is a time of inheritance, of awakening, and of commitment, in which we inherit the commitment of the bomb victims to the abolition of nuclear weapons and realisation of genuine world peace," Hiroshima mayor Tadatoshi Akiba told the gathering.
Akiba said in his Peace Declaration that the five established nuclear powers -- the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China -- as well as India, Pakistan and North Korea were "jeopardising human survival".
This is the kind of day where you just expect moral equivalence ...
The Hiroshima bomb unleashed a mix of shockwaves, heat rays and radiation that killed thousands instantly. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more...
At Saturday's ceremony another 5,375 names were added to the list of Hiroshima's dead, bringing the total to 242,437.
Koizumi, in brief remarks, vowed to stick to the principles of Japan's pacifist constitution and its decades-old ban on nuclear weapons. "I am confident that Hiroshima will remain a symbol of peace," he said.
Koizumi's Liberal Democratic Party earlier this week released a draft of proposed revisions to Japan's post-war, pacifist constitution that would allow the military to act not only in self-defence but also to take part in global security efforts. Referring to such proposals, Akiba said: "The Japanese constitution, which embodies this axiom forever as the sovereign will of a nation, should be a guiding light for the world in the 21st century."
Although support for revising the core pacifist clause remains short of a majority, public opinion is no longer overwhelmingly opposed to it. Some politicians even talk of Japan having nuclear weapons, long a taboo. I bet that gives the Chi-coms nightmares....
Even some people in Hiroshima for the anniversary said Japan might have to go nuclear to counter the North Korean threat. "The best is if talks with the United States go well and North Korea gives up its weapons," said Yoshiaki Onoue, 45, referring to the talks in Beijing aimed at persuading the North to abandon its nuclear ambitions. "But Japan may need to have nuclear weapons as insurance," said Onoue, visiting the Peace Memorial Park with his family from Osaka, about 300 km (190 miles) east of Hiroshima.
#1
Several things. First, NoKo and the ChiFascists are doing a wonderful job of moving Japan towards a more engaged and serious foreign policy. Second, as you noted in the annotation, equal or greater numbers died in the single Tokyo raid of March 8-9, and of course far greater numbers died cumulatively in all the other city raids of 1945. Third, for a while, some Tokyo official (mayor?) would annually make negative remarks about the Cult of Hiroshima, noting his city's greater losses and lack of memorial activities.
Finally, my favorite quote of someone I actually know. A friend was given a tour of the Hiroshima peace park etc. by a foreign ministry guide during a sponsored Japan trip on which he gave lectures on trade policy. Asked by the guide his reaction as they exited the park, he replied "Well, I guess you'll never attack the United States again."
#2
At Saturday's ceremony another 5,375 names were added to the list of Hiroshima's dead, bringing the total to 242,437.
Again bogus numbers. I guess anyone who was at OKC when the bomb went off can claim to the a victim and be added to the count of killed. This is a union of the Japanese apologist and the anti-American crowd pumping up numbers to cover the horrific killings and destruction of the Imperial Japanese forces. Not only the butchery at Nanking, but also Manilia then a territory of the US.
Again, from yesterday, the bomb's development group really wanted to know the full effect of the weapons and did a very indepth analysis. They weren't hiding anything. They found the Japanese rice ration allocations which identified everyone in the city. They then conducted a census, not a statistical sample. The census included interviews which asked each interviewee who lived in their neighborhoods and streets. Very systematic, which the big number people can not show similar methodologies. The final number killed outright and immediately following from various causes was around 65,000, the long term radition numbers tracked both by the US and the Japanese government was an additional 5,000.
Now have those citing higher numbers show their methodologies. They can't show anything more than pulling numbers out of their ass.
#3
I agree with SP4871, the number of people killed from the Hiroshima bomb was around 65,000 - *much* less than were killed in the firebombing of Tokyo. So this is all so much posturing.
All part of the big 'victimology' cult that is so prominent today.
I'd prefer to look at why the bomb was dropped - Pearl Harbour, the Bataan death march, US soldiers being beheaded and the projected loss of at least 20,000 US dead in the first month of an invasion on Japan. 30% of the US public wanted the Emperor to be executed with only 7% thinking he should remain in power after the defeat of Japan - which was going to be aftar an unconditional surrender. It was only by the intervention of Secretary of War Stimson (an old-school gentleman who stopped the US secret service decoding messages in the 1920's because "gentlemen do not open other gentlemen's mail") that Kyoto, the cultural heart of Japan, was removed from the target list for the bomb.
With all those pressures, it's hardly surprising that the bomb was dropped, and as Verlaine's friend said "Well, I guess you'll never attack the United States again". Deterrence only works if people think you'll actually do it, and the US has shown that it will do it.
Basically, if you don't want 65,000 (or the bogus 250,000) dead people, don't start wars...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 9:17
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#4
You think this article is BS, then you should have seen some of the shows on yesterday. Harry Truman drinking with sailors and laughing, then cutting straight to survivors telling horror-tales while showing re-anactments of the bombings aftermath. And they had the Truman actor as a fat-southern guy! I just feel like we're now the enemies of that day when the stregnth of American resolve became apparent to the whole world.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/07/2005 9:37
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#5
VII, love the quote.
Some Japanese have loved the victim game and it has been very good for keeping down Japanese militarism. How bad things are with the ChiComs and Norks is evidenced by the efforts to restore the offensive capability to the JDF. They should really think twice about putting us in a position where we are willing to let the Genie out of the bottle. This time they'll pay and Uncle won't rescue them.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 9:38
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#6
"Who give a shit, it killed a hell of a lot of Japs damned quickly"
#7
The historical revivionists and the Blame America First crowd will always use August 6th, 1945 as a rallying cry. Yet as awfull as nuclear weapons are they did result in the long peace of the last 60 years that while punctuated by smaller conflicts did not thankfully spiral out of control into a general World War due in part to the common sense shown by both military leaders and their political masters on both sides of the Cold War. But the current generation of staes obtaining nuclear arms are still led by men anchored in the Middle Ages that in my mind really don't understand the power of nuclear arms.
#10
Guess I'll have to wear off my rough edges gradually lest I lose all balance completely. Again - those bombs saved the lives of my loved ones then in the USMC, and if it took 200,000 or 60,000 dead to save them from dying in a beach assault on the mainland, then I say damn right it was the right thing to do.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 13:46
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#11
Heh, made ya blink!
Nah, The Bomb was the only tool in the bag that didn't involve huge American losses to end a war Japan started. They asked for it and got it. They have the Moonbat element, replete with historical revisionist specialists and moral equivalence experts, that every civilized society seems to generate and tolerate. I understand the former, there is a social safety net that guarantees survival no matter how moronic people become. The latter, though, I can NOT understand. Personal Rule #3: Be an asset or be gone. The Moonbats fail this test miserably and should NOT be tolerated.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 14:38
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#13
Well, there was a brouhaha while you were blissfully enjoying yourself... We had finger waggers ("mom", a repeat offender, and some git calling itself "Puritan" - don't you love the transparency, lol!) and all the Mods and The Sheriff posted stuff. Don't remember the day, sorry, but I'm thinking it's more filling and less tasty, myself.
So RB is touchier and feelier than ever before. I could substitute other adverbs, but...
So, though it's not in the spirit of the new PC RB, if you feel a hand on your knee - and don't smell Chanel or Shalimar, hey, I'd recommend going ahead and beating the shit stuffing out of the owner, but that's just me.
#14
Japan at least learned its lesson about losing a war, ya gotta give um that one. I guess nuking a nation into being a pacifist is good work when they were an imperialist nation that used to eat the livers of their fallen enemies. The last fifty years has shown that our willingness to use these weapons has kept the hostile nations states at bay. Japan is a good arguement that North Korea should heed. With that said they should dummy up the numbers to a million so other nations will understand the cost of fucking with us.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/07/2005 15:08
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#15
thks for the update lol ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 15:12
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#16
The nuclear bomb was the only weapin the bad who didn't involve huge American losses plus millions of Chinese dead plus tens of millions of Japanese dead.
#17
"No word on whether there was a moment in memory of those who died in the Bataan Death March."
Wow! From Reuters no less.
Posted by: jolly roger ||
08/07/2005 18:08
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#18
Seriously? They used to eat the livers? Yuck!
It's ok with me, Frank, to use fuckers if you need to. But there were a couple of trolls, and some unnecessary asshatery, and a lot of us were still on edge after the attacks on London on 7/7 and 7/21 (or 21/7 for our cousins across the pond). .com has been quite restrained, on the whole, since. ;-) So have most of the rest of us -- a lot of semi-buried shit burst to the surface that day.
THE thump of helicopters and the sirens of police convoys will be reverberating around the Red Sea port of Jeddah from tomorrow morning. Private jets will soon be standing wing tip to wing tip at the airport. The house of Saud, the largest and wealthiest royal family in the world, whose members rule the desert kingdom of Saudi Arabia and control a quarter of the worldâs known oil reserves, is descending on the city in droves. Having buried King Fahd, Saudi Arabiaâs absolute monarch since 1982, in an austere ceremony in Riyadh, the royal family are free to travel again.
Every summer they move their court from the capital to Jeddah. But this time they had to delay for several weeks because of Fahdâs sickness and death. The king finally died early on Monday in a Riyadh hospital at the age of 84. Now that the funeral is over, hundreds of princes, princesses and courtiers in flowing ankle-length robes, embroidered cloaks and traditional Arab headdresses are due to arrive imminently in the port city. With its 20 miles of air-conditioned shopping malls and gleaming glass office buildings, Jeddah has the skyline and commercial trappings of a modern American city. The royals like it, and some of them will now be staying for several months, enjoying a life of spectacular opulence amid the silk couches and gilded rooms of their marble-lined palaces. Those who do not have palaces will be in the luxury hotels that line the coast. Not only will the royal family be glad to escape Riyadhâs searing heat for Jeddahâs more congenial climate. They will be breathing a collective sigh of relief that the passing of Fahd, a critical moment in Saudi history, has gone off without a hitch.
And now the plotting begins in ernest
Fahdâs death was followed by the quick succession to the throne of his half-brother, the former Crown Prince Abdullah. The 81-year-old Abdullah has been de facto ruler in charge of day-to-day affairs for the past 10 years, ever since Fahd suffered a stroke that left him in an near-vegetative state. Though superficially smooth, however, the succession raises uncertainty about the future. Because of oil, any shift in power in Saudi Arabia, a key American ally in the Middle East, may have economic repercussions around the globe.
Stability is vital. This is why presidents, prime ministers, emirs and royals jetted into Riyadh last week to express condolences for Fahdâs passing and good wishes to the new king. Prominent among them were Tony Blair and the Prince of Wales. The show of solidarity among the Saudi royal princes was impressive and intended to demonstrate that all was well in the kingdom. But many experts believe the house of Saud is at a crossroads where it has to reform or die. Power is inherited and the royal family hold all the top government posts and a huge share of the nationâs wealth. The constitution says the crown must pass to the sons of King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, who founded the Saudi state in 1932, or to their sons. There are at least 5,000 princes and the extended royal family probably numbers many times that. It is estimated it could reach 60,000 in a generation, all living on royal stipends of thousands of dollars a month, which could ultimately break the treasury.
The nominated successor to Abdullah is Prince Sultan, the defence minister. But at 80 he is almost as old as Abdullah and has been ill with cancer. He may not even outlive his half-brother, the king. His lavish spending is notorious even by the profligacy of the Sauds and is so widely known that it is unclear how acceptable he would be to the wider public. His palace is so large, for example, that it has its own fire brigade. âThe succession has been smooth so far, but the future looks rough,â said Simon Henderson, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. âAbdullah has yet to reallocate jobs and we could be looking at two short reigns.â
What happens then is the huge unknown. After Abdullah and Sultan, the next direct descendant of Abdul Aziz is Prince Nayef, the interior minister. But he is a hardline conservative who is unpopular and lacks the common touch. The idea of the throne passing to him is anathema to reformers, and a lack of agreement within the court must explain why Abdullah has failed to name him the crown prince-designate as he should according to custom. Western diplomats do not believe Abdullah intends to fill the post. Nayef is close to the conservative religious establishment who favour quasi-religious rule. He turned down the idea of women voting in recent elections, says there is no cause to discuss any need for women to drive and initially said that the September 11 terrorist attacks on America in 2001 were a Zionist conspiracy.
The betting is that Nayef will be skipped over in favour of Prince Salman. In his late sixties, Salman wields enormous power as the governor of Riyadh. He is highly sophisticated and talks of reform, but also assiduously cultivates the religious establishment. It would then be up to Salman to decide whether the next generation of western-educated princes should succeed. âThat is when it gets interesting,â said a western diplomat. âThere is no obvious logic or justification for deciding who is next.â
Salman has three credible sons, one an astronaut, the first Arab in space. A family feud seems inevitable. Prince Talal, a son of Abdul Aziz, called such a quarrel the âbiggest dangerâ to the royal family.
Arab family feuds involve weapons. Royal arab family feuds involve crew served weapons.
A more immediate worry for Abdullah is how to reform and modernise without antagonising the religious establishment.
Ain't gonna happen.
The Saud family have always used religion to keep the kingdom in check, but militant Islamists allied to Osama Bin Laden, the Saudi Al-Qaeda leader who has vowed to topple the Sauds for their close ties to America, carried out bombings last year that killed many Arabs as well as westerners. As crown prince, Abdullah showed a firm resolve in tackling terrorism. The Saudi security forces believe they have smashed the main Al-Qaeda network responsible for the attacks, killing or capturing 23 out of 26 on their wanted list. But it is acknowledged that the likelihood of further attacks remains high.
Two contrasting faces of the kingdom were visible in Riyadh last week. In Chop-Chop Square, as the plaza where public beheadings are carried out is known, people declared allegiance to Abdullah and condemned any changes that eroded the traditions of Islam. Downtown, however, in Starbucks â which is partitioned into sections for men and for women â a young man was calling for quicker social change and speaking of a need for job creation and education, albeit with continuity. âWe donât want these harbingers of hate, terrorism, intolerance and obscurantism to flourish here,â he said. âThe root to stopping them is education.â
The country is facing a demographic timebomb. With 70% of its population under 21, incomes falling and a soaring birth rate, Saudi society is like a runaway train heading for a crash. With the price of oil shooting to $60 a barrel, Abdullah now has the money to keep it running on the rails, provided he does not waste it. Over the years the monarchies of Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Yemen have all been swept away. But in Saudi Arabia in the past week 3m people have pledged their allegiance to Abdullah. The kingâs supporters see it as a referendum from which the monarchy has emerged with its authority enhanced. The era of royal unaccountability and unlimited wealth seems destined to continue. But after Fahdâs death, no one really knows how much longer the old order can be sustained. At best, Abdullah and Sultan can be expected to reign for 10 years. Then comes the moment of truth.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005
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#1
Jeddah sounds like a target-rich environment to me. Fire for effect please.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 4:34
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#2
...Ten years? Feh. Unless we deliver a skull-cracking death blow to Al-Q, one which is so spectacular and so gruesome that generations to come refuse to even speak the name, Nayef and his pals will make their move in a year or two at MOST.
Just my very humble opinion, but very much want to hear others.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/07/2005 15:32
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#3
I mourn all innocents in this battle to the death. I also expect to have to do little mourning. Heh heh - popcorn futures up?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 16:48
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THE New South Wales Government has expanded its public hospital records surveillance system to combat a potential bioterrorist threat. Premier Morris Iemma today announced the Public Health Real Time Emergency Department Surveillance System (PHREDSS), currently operating in 23 hospitals in the Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong areas, had been expanded to include nine additional emergency departments. PHREDSS links hospital records for analysis by public health officials of trends in symptoms and disease.
Mr Iemma said it had so far been successful in detecting a rise in party drug use, a community-wide gastrointestinal outbreak between March and September last year and influenza patterns during the winter season. "This system provides early warning of epidemic activity that could signal the introduction into NSW of SARS or biological agents such as smallpox or other diseases that might result from a bioterrorism incident," he said.
PHREDSS could detect trends up to seven days faster than existing GP and pathology lab-based systems, Mr Iemma said. The $1.3 million expansion will extend PHREDSS to hospitals in the Blue Mountains and Central Coast regions, as well as Sydney's Royal North Shore Hospital.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005
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DUBLIN â Three men linked to the Irish Republican Army who were convicted of training rebels in Colombia have returned surreptitiously to Ireland after eight months on the run from South America. RTE, the Irish national broadcasters, carried an interview with one of the fugitives, Jim Monaghan. He said all three had returned to Ireland recently, "and, as you can imagine, a lot of people in a lot of countries had to help us."
And we'd like their names ...
Monaghan, Niall Connolly and Martin McCauley were arrested in August 2001 as they were trying to board a flight out of Colombia after spending about 18 months with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, Colombia's major rebel group known by the acronym FARC. The trio were charged with training rebels to make and deploy IRA-style weaponry, including truck-mounted mortars.
#1
I heard of a little announcement from the IRA recently... do you think the three will be going back now and teaching FARC how to disarm? end{sarcasm}
Is "insurgent education" going to be one of the IRA's new businesses? I wonder how much the IRA got paid for running the training school.
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 16:13
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#2
The weirdest thing about this story is this:
"and, as you can imagine, a lot of people in a lot of countries had to help us."
I mean, it's really drawing attention to yourself isn't it?
As for the 'disarmament', I'll believe that when I see it.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 16:39
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Residents of Delhi who dream of being cowboys are about to get the chance in real life. Under a bizarre new scheme to round up the city's stray cattle, the Delhi High Court is offering a cash reward for anyone who brings a bovine to book.
Prime Minister 
Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday until further notice to protest recent attacks against senior legal officials. The shutdown was announced in a statement signed by judges and lawyers. Earlier in the week in Gaza City, an explosive device was detonated outside the home of former Palestinian Justice Minister Zuhair Sourani, while a separate blast damaged a wall outside the home of the Palestinian Authority's attorney general in the city, Hussein Abu Assi. Both men were appointed by parliament to investigate widespread corruption in the Palestinian Authority. Sourani resigned as overseer of judges on Saturday, saying the Palestinian Authority was not doing enough to protect him and his colleagues.
An Algerian political leader has been told by a court that he would remain imprisoned pending further questioning, his son said. Ali Belhadj, the former number two in the banned Islamic Salvation Front (FIS), was arrested on 27 July after an Aljazeera television interview where he supported the resistance to the US-led forces in Iraq. "An investigating judge questioned Ali Belhadj and ordered him back to prison," Abdelkader Moghni, a former FIS leader, said. Belhadj's son Abdelfattah added: "The authorities has returned my father back to jail to complete the questioning." 
An extreme Muslim cleric whose family have been living on benefits in Britain for 20 years says it would not be 'fair' to deport him. Speaking after the Prime Minister announced his clampdown, father-of-seven 
Aug 6: Five alleged muggers were arrested after a gunfight with RAB members at Nauzar in Sadar upazila today (Saturday). The arrested were identified as Jahangir, Faruk, Sohag, Daroga Ali and Shariful. Four of themâJahangir, Faruk, Sohag and Aliâwere injured in the gunfight.
BEIJING (AP) - Envoys to deadlocked North Korean nuclear talks will take a recess, the Chinese government announced Sunday after a record 13 days of meetings failed to bring agreement on a joint statement meant to guide future negotiations. The talks were scheduled to resume Aug. 29.
ISLAMABAD â A militant suspected of bringing murdered US reporter Daniel Pearl to his kidnappers has confessed he was working for two key Al Qaeda-linked operatives, police said on Saturday. 
KATHMANDU - Five children abducted by Maoists from schools in eastern Nepalâs Taplegunj district have escaped their captors, Nepalese media reports said on Saturday. 
Two senior al-Qaeda operatives in Saudi Arabia made money transfers and used coded text messages to communicate with suspected terrorists in Britain before last month's attacks in London, according to officials in the kingdom. The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead. 
PETROPAVLOVSK-KAMCHATSKY, Russia (AP) - A Russian mini-submarine that was trapped for nearly three days under the Pacific Ocean surfaced Sunday after a British remote-controlled vehicle cut away the undersea cables that had snarled it, news agencies reported.
Every summer they move their court from the capital to Jeddah. But this time they had to delay for several weeks because of Fahdâs sickness and death. The king finally died early on Monday in a Riyadh hospital at the age of 84. Now that the funeral is over, hundreds of princes, princesses and courtiers in flowing ankle-length robes, embroidered cloaks and traditional Arab headdresses are due to arrive imminently in the port city. With its 20 miles of air-conditioned shopping malls and gleaming glass office buildings, Jeddah has the skyline and commercial trappings of a modern American city. The royals like it, and some of them will now be staying for several months, enjoying a life of spectacular opulence amid the silk couches and gilded rooms of their marble-lined palaces. Those who do not have palaces will be in the luxury hotels that line the coast. Not only will the royal family be glad to escape Riyadhâs searing heat for Jeddahâs more congenial climate. They will be breathing a collective sigh of relief that the passing of Fahd, a critical moment in Saudi history, has gone off without a hitch. 
