The United States argued Thursday for the extradition of a radical Islamic cleric imprisoned in Britain, accusing him of involvement in a global conspiracy to wage terrorist attacks on the U.S. and other Western countries. Abu Hamza al-Masri has been charged in the United States with trying to establish a terrorist training camp in Oregon, conspiring to take hostages in Yemen and facilitating terrorist training in Afghanistan. He is serving a seven-year sentence in Britain for fomenting racial hatred and urging his followers to kill non-Muslims.
"He advocated the defense of Islam through unlawful, violent and armed aggression," Hugo Keith, a lawyer representing the U.S. government, said during a hearing in a London court.
The hearing started a day later than scheduled because al-Masri was recovering from an operation to remove a bone from the stump of one of his arms. He lost both arms below the elbows and an eye fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s. He now has hooks for hands, and a glass eye.
No problem, the Russians can have the parts and we'll take the rest. Or just the severed head, whatever is easier.
Al-Masri was arrested on an U.S. extradition warrant in May 2004, but the process was put on hold while he stood trial in Britain and then appealed his convictions.
In January, the House of Lords denied al-Masri permission to make further appeals, and his extradition proceedings went back on the agenda.
Al-Masri's lawyer, Alun Jones, said the extradition application should be rejected because he believed some of the evidence against the cleric was extracted by torturing a defense witness. Jones did not say where the alleged torture may have occurred but the witness, Feroz Abbasi, was a former British Guantanamo Bay detainee. He was initially arrested by Afghan forces and handed over to U.S. authorities. The court heard that Hamza helped pay for Abbasi to travel to Afghanistan.
"The court ought to conduct here an inquiry," he said. "There is reasonable cause to suspect this extradition request is founded in significant parts on evidence obtained by torture."
There's no evidence that anyone at Gitmo has had fingernails removed, though they may have been made to stand in an uncomfortable position and their Qurans may have been handled by ungloved, infidel hands. But Jones is going to spout the pomo agenda for all it's worth since he has nothing else to offer his client.
Outlining the U.S. case, Keith said Hamza provided a satellite phone and 500 hours of airtime to a group responsible for the 1998 kidnapping of 16 western tourists in Yemen. Four of the tourists died in a shootout between the abductors and Yemeni security officials.
Keith said the planned training camp in Oregon would have been used to prepare recruits to "kill enemies of Islam" in Afghanistan, training them in weapons use, hand-to-hand combat and martial arts. "The general allegation is that Mr. Hamza is a member of a global conspiracy to wage jihad against the U.S. and other Western countries," Keith said. "Jihad carried out in numerous parts of the world -- the U.K., Afghanistan, Yemen and U.S."
And Iraq, and Somalia, and Algeria, and Morocco, and Spain, and most especially in North Wazoo ...
Keith also detailed another indictment that claimed al-Masri funded travel to Afghanistan for two men who pleaded guilty in April 2003 to plotting to set up the training camp in Bly, Ore.
If tried and convicted in the United States, Al-Masri, the former head preacher at London's Finsbury Park Mosque, would carry out the rest of his sentence in Britain before serving any prison term in Ice Station Zebra the U.S.
The parents of the kidnapped journalist Alan Johnston celebrated his 45th birthday without him yesterday, forced to broadcast touching messages of support and reassurance in the hope they may reach him where- ever he is being held. The messages came as it was revealed that the government has been in talks with a jailed radical cleric in Britain over the possibility of him making an appeal for Mr Johnston's release.
In a pre-recorded message from the family home outside Cairndow, Argyll, Graham Johnston told his son to "keep your chin up". "Hello Alan, happy birthday. We're all thinking about you all the time, constantly. It would be a much happier birthday if you were here with us today. All our fondest love, my son. Keep your chin up."
His mother, Margaret, gave a similar message of reassurance. "Happy birthday, Alan," she said. "We're missing you obviously. We're going over to Cairndow for lunch today with some friends, and we'll all be thinking about and missing you, and wishing you were with us. Your dad and your sister and I are all right, honestly. Lots of love." Both were broadcast by the BBC World Service in the hope that the journalist may have access to a television or radio.
The government ... was in talks with the jailed cleric Abu Qatada ... about the possibility of him making an appeal for Mr Johnston to be freed.
Mark Thompson, the BBC's director-general, said concern for Mr Johnston was at the forefront of his colleagues' minds. "Since Alan's abduction, he has been constantly in our thoughts," he said. "It is particularly sad that he cannot celebrate his birthday with the people close to him. Across the BBC, I know there are thousands of Alan's friends and colleagues all fervently hoping that he is safe and will soon be free to return home to his family."
Vigils were held across the world yesterday to mark the correspondent's birthday.
The government confirmed yesterday it was in talks with the jailed cleric Abu Qatada, Osama bin Laden's spiritual figurehead in Europe, about the possibility of him making an appeal for Mr Johnston to be freed. It is understood that the cleric has offered to travel to Gaza with a BBC delegation in an effort to contact Mr Johnston's captors. In a letter to the London-based Islamic Observatory Centre, the cleric apparently claimed that the government did not seem to be "serious" about getting the journalist freed. He is said to have issued the letter because the "British government has been trying to deal with me in an incorrect manner in the matter of Alan Johnston".
Qatada, a Jordanian of Palestinian origin, has been held in Britain, awaiting deportation, since 2005 on allegations that he raised funds for extremist groups and offered advice to Islamic extremists. He is said to be one of the Muslim prisoners in Britain that the Army of Islam has demanded be freed before they release Mr Johnston.
A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "We have been in discussion with Abu Qatada via his lawyer with regards to making an appeal for his release." The Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled in February that Qatada could be deported to Jordan - where he has been convicted twice in his absence of involvement in terrorist plots - despite his legal team's arguments that he would face a flawed trial there.
MUSLIMS are outraged that prospective citizens will have to acknowledge the Judeo-Christian tradition as the basis of Australia's values system.
Australia's peak Muslim body said the proposed citizenship question - revealed in the Herald Sun - was disturbing and potentially divisive.
Australian Federation of Islamic Councils president Dr Ameer Ali said the "Abrahamic tradition" or "universal values" would be less divisive ways of describing the nation's moral base. Dr Ali said use of the term Judeo-Christian was the result of "WWII guilt", and before 1945 Australia would have been called only Christian. "That question must be rephrased," he said.
Dr Ali was backed by Democrats senator Lyn Allison, who said the answer to the question was highly debatable.
But Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews stood firm on the merit of the question. Mr Andrews said Australia's Judeo-Christian heritage was indisputable historical fact. "We are not asking people to subscribe to the Judeo-Christian ethic," he said. "We are simply stating a fact that this is part of the heritage of Australia in terms of its foundation.
"This is not an exercise in political correctness. It is trying to state what has been the case and still is the case."
But Health Minister Tony Abbott confused the issue, saying the modern Australian values system was secular, or of no particular religion.
The Herald Sun yesterday revealed 20 key questions, developed in consultation with Mr Andrews, that are likely to be asked of would-be citizens. Mr Andrews said the test, to begin by September, would help immigrants integrate into society better. "We celebrate diversity and people are free to continue their own traditions, but we are also very insistent that we have to build and maintain social cohesion," he said.
Dr Ali said he would request a meeting with Mr Andrews to discuss the question. "It is the wrong message we are sending," he said.
Senator Allison said the test was pointless. "I don't see what it's going to achieve," she said. "It doesn't say anything about people's character, whether they are going to be good citizens."
Opposition immigration spokesman Tony Burke said Labor agreed in principle with the test, but wanted details.
Australia's peak Muslim body said the proposed citizenship question - revealed in the Herald Sun - was disturbing and potentially divisive.
Of course, Muslims are never devisive. Really!
Australian Federation of Islamic Councils president Dr Ameer Ali said the "Abrahamic tradition" or "universal values" would be less divisive ways of describing the nation's moral base.
Is that because Christ wasn't around in the time of Abraham?
Dr Ali said use of the term Judeo-Christian was the result of "WWII guilt", and before 1945 Australia would have been called only Christian.
Bingo! Finally, blame it on all the guilt Westerners feel over the Holocaust that never happened. Didn't see that one coming at all.
"That question must be rephrased," he said.
Whassamatter, insufficient dawa quotient?
Dr Ali was backed by Democrats senator Lyn Allison, who said the answer to the question was highly debatable.
For a democrat, yes it probably is.
"This is not an exercise in political correctness.
#4
All the Muslims ever do over here is whine and complain, bang their heads against brick walls, and stomp their feet and throw their arms in the air when they don't get their own way.
What a bunch of unwelcomed losers.
#5
#4: "All the Muslims moslems ever do over hereanywhere is whine and complain, bang their heads against brick walls, and stomp their feet and throw their arms in the air when they don't get their own way."
There - fixed that for ya', Oz.
(BTW, I changed "Muslim" because I save the respect of that appellation for normal people like the friends I have who just happen to follow that particular religion, but don't think everyone else should be forced to; don't care if we drink alcohol or eat pork - even in front of them; don't care how other people dress; don't hate Jews; etc. They're better Americans than a lot of native-born non-Muslim Americans. Starting with the vast majority of the dhimmi-Donks.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/18/2007 19:47 Comments ||
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#6
now wait a minute. The guards and officials were all christians afaik. The only Jews present at Oz' founding were criminals (usually of the nonviolent variety, AFAIK) Surely, in all those thousands of pickpockets, thugs, petty thieves, swindlers, etc, etc there has to have been at least ONE muslim?
Most Americans know that we have an illegal immigration problem in this country, with perhaps as many as 20 million people residing here unlawfully. And I think most Americans have a pretty good idea about how to at least start solving the problem secure our nations borders.
But theres an old saying in Washington that, in dealing with any tough issue, half the politicians hope that citizens dont understand it while the other half fear that people actually do. This kind of thinking was apparent with the comprehensive immigration reform bill that the U.S. Senate and the White House negotiated yesterday.
Id tell you what was in the legislation, but 24 hours after the politicians agreed the bill looked good, the Senate lawyers were still writing what may turn out to be a one thousand page document. In fact, a final version of the bill most likely will not be made available to the public until after the legislation is passed. That may come five days from now. Thats like trying to digest an eight-course meal on a fifteen-minute lunch break.
Weve tried the comprehensive route before to solve the illegal immigration problem with a bit more care and deliberation, and the results havent been good. Back in May 1985, Congress promised us that it would come up with a comprehensive plan to solve the problem of illegal immigration and our porous borders. Eighteen months later, in November 1986, that comprehensive plan was signed into law.
Twenty-two years and millions of illegal immigrants later, that comprehensive plan hasnt done what most Americans wanted it to do -- secure Americas borders. Now Washington says the new comprehensive plan will solve the problem that the last comprehensive plan didnt.
The fact is our border and immigration systems are still badly broken. We were reminded of this when Newsweek reported that the family of three of the men, arrested last week for allegedly plotting to kill American military personnel at Fort Dix, New Jersey, entered the U.S. illegally more than 20 years ago; filed for asylum back in 1989, but fell off the governments radar screen when federal bureaucrats essentially lost track of the paperwork. Wonder how many times thats been replicated?
Is it any wonder that a lot of folks today feel like theyre being sold a phony bill of goods on border security? A comprehensive plan doesnt mean much if the government cant accomplish one of its most basic responsibilities for its citizens -- securing its borders. A nation without secure borders will not long be a sovereign nation.
No matter how much lipstick Washington tries to slap onto this legislative pig, its not going to win any beauty contests. In fact, given Congresss track record, the bill will probably get a lot uglier -- at least from the publics point of view. And agreeing to policies before actually seeing what the policies are is a heck of a way to do business.
We should scrap this comprehensive immigration bill and the whole debate until the government can show the American people that we have secured the borders -- or at least made great headway. That would give proponents of the bill a chance to explain why putting illegals in a more favorable position than those who play by the rules is not really amnesty.
Added emphasis mine. Go to the link and LISTEN to his podcast of this.
#5
"entered the U.S. illegally more than 20 years ago; filed for asylum back in 1989, but fell off the governments radar screen when federal bureaucrats essentially lost track of the paperwork"
not via the Rio Grande, then. How would fortifying the SW border change this?
#6
It can't change the past. But it can prevent OTMs of potentially nefarious intent from entering to try again in the future.
Here's some photos of items found near Three Points, Arizona, for example. You think Juan Pablo y su esposa were vacationing in the Middle East prior to coming to El Norte?
#7
Some of them came in via the refugee debacle, some came in over the border. Pay attention, LH.
Besides, do you disagree that a nation that doesn't control who is within it is no longer a nation?
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
05/18/2007 20:08 Comments ||
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#8
yes id disagree with that. In theearly 19th century most countries didnt even have passports, movement from country to country was barely regulated.
I wouldnt say there were no nations, there certainly were.
The decision of how much effort to put into controlling the border is a policy decision to be based on costs and benefits. Not an emotional one.
And I certainly agree that post 9/11 we should control the border better. I think we have. Look at the absence of terr acts in the US, despite thousand of Islamist loonies abroad. These guys at Ft Dix were rank amateurs, not trained AQniks, who came over years before 9/11.
Now should we improve border control further - sure. But should we hold immigration reform hostage till the BP gets its act together? Does the BP even care about reform of the status of current immigrants?
Do you agree that a country that has millions of inhabitants, who are not registered, who are living on the lam, who dont have the same access to education and health care, who can be victimized by unscrupulous employers, has a big problem?
But that leaves two options - legalize them, or deport them.
there have always been non-Mexicans coming across. if this one guy of the fort dix trio was actually a Rio Grande comer, hes the first terr thus far to do so, AFAIK. and hes hardly first rank terr.
but again, im all for improving border security. I think it should go along with the other changes.
Refuse them benefits or permission to work, and place draconian penalties on those who would hire them, and they'll deport themselves. BTW, my congresscritter has cosponsored H.R. 1940, which is a bill to make the "anchor baby" concept illegal. If they can get that passed it would make a tremendous difference.
Posted by: Mac ||
05/18/2007 20:30 Comments ||
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LH I am for as you say "deport them". Talk about "immigration" after the border is secured and and every US citizen who wants one has a living wage job.
#12
yes id disagree with that. In theearly 19th century most countries didnt even have passports, movement from country to country was barely regulated.
There also wasn't welfare, mandates to provide healthcare, education, free college tuition, providing identification documents, patronising special-interest groups, WMD...
#13
In theearly 19th century most countries didnt even have passports, movement from country to country was barely regulated.
LH, your comparison is wholly inadequate, as in apples to oranges. In the early 19th century, movement between nations was horrendously expensive, very risky to one's life (one in seven ocean going ships never made it back into port) and heavily discouraged due to extreme xenophobia on the part of rural populations (watch the movies Jean de Florette & Manon des Source sometime).
In an age of international air travel and institutionalized human smuggling, your observation no longer applies.
#14
O'REILLY [paraphrased] > Iff there are approxi 20.0Milyuhn new citizens in 5-10 years, mostly HISPANIC?, it will utterly change everything in America. MOST ILLEGALS OR HISPANICS, ETC. VOTE DEMOCRAT - in FIVE YEARS, wid 10.0Milyuhn illegals, etal. now new voters in the ranks, O'REILLY BELIEVES AMERS WILL WAVE = SAY BYE-BYE TO THE GOP, AS THE DEMS WILL TAKE CONTROL BY SHEER WEIGHT OF NUMBERS ALONE, AND AMER WILL HAVE A ONE-PARTY GOVT. AND NATION.
#15
OTOH, HANNITY AND COLMES > GUESTS > dichotomy is btwn OBEYING THE CURRENT LAW = LAWS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE; versus OBEY THE PROPOSED NEW LAW BUT NOT THE OLD/PAST LAWS???
NORFOLK, Va. -- Two days before a Navy lawyer allegedly mailed a list of Guantánamo captives' names to a New York human rights group -- tucked inside a Valentine -- he signed a military form agreeing not to disclose ''any government information,'' according to testimony at his court-martial Tuesday.
Navy Lt. Cmdr. Matthew Diaz, 41, faces up to 24 years in prison if convicted of five charges ranging from unlawfully releasing classified material that could harm the United States to conduct unbecoming an officer.
Prosecutors argue that the list containing names, codes and serial numbers of 500-plus Guantánamo captives was a national security secret when Diaz sent a shrunken version in January 2005 to the Center for Constitutional Rights, a civil liberties law firm suing on behalf of both publicly identified and nameless war-on-terror captives.
His lawyers argue the list was not marked ''secret'' or otherwise classified inside a special-access Defense Department computer that contained detainee intelligence information. Moreover, they say, he did not intend to harm national security or help America's enemies.
His intent isn't the issue, his actions are.
Either way, Navy prosecutors Tuesday called a Miami-based U.S. Southern Command security contractor, Lorie Bobzien, to authenticate a nondisclosure agreement that Diaz signed on Jan. 13, 2005 -- days before he ended a six-month assignment at Guantánamo.
''I will never divulge, publish or reveal any government information,'' it said. Also: ``I will not communicate or transmit any Defense information to any unauthorized persons.''
There's a big ooops. He's not going to argue his way around that one.
At the time, Diaz was serving as deputy in charge of the detention and interrogation center's legal division.
Prosecutors claim that two days after he signed the agreement, Diaz mailed the material from Guantánamo inside a fire-engine-red envelope containing a Valentine with a droopy-eyed Chihuahua on the cover.
The New York legal and human rights group turned the list over to a federal court security officer, who in turn alerted the FBI.
After making copies, of course.
Bobzien, now a Lockheed Martin security contractor at Southcom, testified that at Guantánamo she established a ''fairly robust'' program to safeguard both secret and unclassified information at the remote prison camps in southeast Cuba. Everyone who worked there at the time of Diaz's assignment got a comprehensive briefing on such far-flung topics as ``not sharing your passwords and searching porn, . . . where you could and could not take photos.''
Later in the day, Diaz's successor as deputy staff judge advocate, Navy Reserves Lt. Cmdr. Tony de Alicante, testified that it was widely understood that material handled by the office was to be shrouded in secrecy. ''It was clear'' to new arrivals, he testified, ``that we were walking into a classified environment and we were expected to protect the things we were exposed to.''
So everyone got the memo except Diaz. He's toast.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/18/2007 10:54 ||
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#1
Time to bring back the practices of keelhauling and hanging from the yardarm...
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
05/18/2007 11:20 Comments ||
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#2
Personally, I prefer keelraking. In keelhauling, the perp is pulled from port to starboard. In keelraking, the perp is pulled from fore to aft.
In the days of sailing ships, people sometimes survived keelhauling, although they usually died later of infection from rubbin up against the barnacles on the hull. Keelraking was a much longer trip, and the perp was almost certain to drown.
In modern ships, of course, the perp would get dragged through the screws and turned into chum.
#3
NORFOLK, Va. A Navy lawyer who gave a human rights attorney the names of 550 Guantanamo Bay detainees was convicted in military court Thursday of communicating secret information that could be used to injure the United States.
Lt. Cmdr. Matthew Diaz also was convicted of three counts of leaking information to an unauthorized person, but was acquitted of printing out national defense information with the intent or reason to believe it would be used against the U.S. A sentencing hearing was to begin Friday for Diaz, who could receive up to 14 years in prison.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/18/2007 12:00 Comments ||
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#4
Two days before a Navy lawyer allegedly mailed a list of Guantánamo captives' names to a New York human rights group he signed a military form agreeing not to disclose ''any government information,''
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has called for adopting means for collective self- defence of the Muslim countries to ward off external aggression. That'd be us, of course.
Addressing the concluding session of 34th Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers (ICFM) here Thursday, Aziz said: We shall enhance the capacity of Islamic countries to defend them against external domination and foreign aggression by acquiring the means for effective and collective self-defence. That'd be nukes, of course.
He said the Islamic world was passing through a critical period and certain forces were trying to push the West and Islamic world towards a real conflict. He cautioned that all such dangerous trends must be reversed for a better world. Meaning the West had better stop whatever it is it's doing and become more deferential to the Islamic world...
However, he equated challenges of the present world with the vast opportunities offered by the globalised and technical revolution and said that Muslims should seize the opportunity for good. There's a lot of money to despoil the infidels of...
Aziz said that Muslim countries should reform. We cannot play the role that we desire in the world affairs for a better future without internal reform and socio-economic development, he said. He emphasised that a greater unity of the Ummah was vital to facing challenges of the 21st century. A caliphate, that's the way to go, by gum! Forget about that individual liberty stuff. That "sick man of Europe" routine the Turks went through, that was just a fluke.
He praised the ICFM for adopting agenda for reforms in the charter of Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC). He said the OIC Secretariat should be strengthened to serve as a force multiplier for realisation of broader objectives of the OIC. He said the political problems involving occupation of Muslim lands such as Palestine, Iraq, etc. should be solved. We shall seek an end to the escalating tensions in the Gulf and construct a durable structure for peace, security and cooperation in the region, he said. "That doesn't involve deposing any madmen, of course, nor the disarming of any bands of fascisti. But we think we can get some more concessions from the Jews. Eventually they'll be weakened enough that we can kick them out and make all the Holy Land just like Gaza."
The PM condemned terrorism in all its forms and stressed for conveying the true message of Islam. He opposed the rising trend of Islamophobia and called for protection of Muslim minorities and communities in the non-Muslim countries. "We want to make damned sure Muslim minorities in the civilized world aren't treated like non-Muslim minorities are in the Islamic world."
Aziz said it was essential to establish creative linkages to deepen intra OIC trade, investment and commercial cooperation. He emphasised that Muslims were rich in human capital but lagging in human resource development. That means they're teeming with unskilled labor in a world that increasingly demands skills beyond that of reciting the Koran.
These contrasts prevent us from playing a larger role in the comity of nations but this state of affairs can be changed, he said. "We're not sure how, of course, but we're sure it can be. We're studying the Koran for hints."
Aziz emphasised cooperation in education and science and technology and called for intensifying scientific research in the Muslim countries. Pakistan, in its capacity as the chair of the COMSTECH, is prepared to spearhead this initiative. The COMSTECH should be transformed into a specialised organ of the OIC so it can play its due role, he said. "After all, the Paks are the ones with the nukes."
Aziz said the Muslim states should support national aspirations of both the energy exporters and importers within the OIC and they should develop a strategy for energy security of member states. Aziz said that the UN should be reformed and democratised and the OIC as a group should take active part in the reform process of the world body. He also called for timely implementation of the declaration and resolutions of the 34th ICFM.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/18/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
I believe you ought to go one step further if you could get along for two minutes. Form an Islamic Union. Just copy the EU. That saves us a lot of time. We can preprogram all your major cities and launch counter strikes against all you sand fleas at once if just one of you steps out of line.
#2
Masterful inline, Fred. Just the very thought of a Muslim NATO-style alliance is enough to induce hysterical laughter. Exactly who would hold the "two keys"? As always, my best and favorite oxymoron: Arab Unity.
#3
No surprise that the leading state sponsor of terrorism - Pakistan - wants other countries to shield it from the consequences of its actions. My feeling is that other Muslim countries will just say no. Who the heck wants to get bombed by India or the US for Pakistan's sins?
Pakistan has always sought an "external balancer" to supply the weapons and money it needed to maintain the fiction of being a "rival" to India.
This is very important to the Pak psyche. To be less then India is to negate the very basis of partition and the creation of the Pakistani state, the promise of muslim rule over the Indian subcontinent.
At different times Pak has sought help from the US, China, the UN, the OIC and the Saudis against India. They have repeatedly asked for external mediators in the India-Pak dispute.
They have suggested an Arab oil embargo to compel India to surrender Kashmir. They have called for UN sanctions. They have called on the OIC to expel Indian workers.
After the 1998 nuclear tests, Benazir Bhutto called for NATO to bomb India.
Now that the coalition in Afghanistan is faced with Pak duplicity and support of terrorism at first hand there is the need to balance not only India but now the US.
Another part of the Pak psyche is the fiction that Pakistan is a "Citadel of Islam" - Islam is in danger from the Kufr and they will defend it. This is important in mobilizing the Pak masses to support the state. They seek to recreate their imagined martial prowess in order to compensate for the loss of muslim political and economic power in the Indian subcontinent.
Members of the Pak elite like to claim they are "ashraf" - descendants of the prophet Mohammed and thus superior in status to other muslim. They fabricate Central Asian ancestry as well. This is a compensatory tactic because Arabs, especially since the oil booms, tend to be quite comptemptuous of non-arab muslims from the subcontinent, those who clean their homes, toilets, perform manual labor.
As anyone who has worked in the mid-east will tell you, many Arabs don't even think them real muslims.
Paks like to imagine themselves as the sword arm of Islam. This gives them a place in the muslim order not at the very bottom.
Occasionally the Saudis will humor them in this regard. Last week the imam of the grand mosque in Mecca, addressing a group of Pakistanis, called them the "citadel of Islam", defenders possessing a weapon the West was afraid of.
Posted by: John Frum ||
05/18/2007 6:17 Comments ||
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#6
Those inline comments were devastatingly insightful.
Just one thing to add:
Aziz said the Muslim states should support national aspirations of both the energy exporters and importers within the OIC and they should develop a strategy for energy security of member states.
Let's throw in some political cover for Iran's nuclear program while we're at it!
#9
Saudi Wahabbists defending the Shi'a, who they consider heretics worse than infidels . . . Iranians defending their mortal ethnic enemies the Arabs, and vice-versa . . . oh, yeah, that'll work!
Posted by: Mike ||
05/18/2007 9:24 Comments ||
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#10
To be less then India is to negate the very basis of partition and the creation of the Pakistani state, the promise of muslim rule over the Indian subcontinent.
If you step back from the day to day and look at the big picture, India and China have become the new lands of opportunity. The bright young college kids with big dreams head off to Asia and India. Islam is a 7th Century religion that is coming face to face with the technology of the 21st century and it can't deal with it. Its core nature which focuses on domination, humiliation, revenge, subjugation of women etc. was able to exist when they were "over there" and we were "over here", but the free flow of information in the technological age allows their young to have access to the modern world and they want a piece of it.
Their only hope to remain in the 7th Century is to conquer the world and throw us all back there. They won't succeed of course, but they will kill millions to avoid admitting the fact that their culture is inferior to any other.
#12
We shall enhance the capacity of Islamic countries to defend them against external domination and foreign aggression by acquiring the means for effective and collective self-defence.
So would this be nukes? Are they going to harness their tremendous technological capabilities? Increase their development of aircraft, ships, and tanks? I guess the answer is no. This must mean bankrolling terrorism.
#13
Aziz emphasised cooperation in education and science and technology and called for intensifying scientific research in the Muslim countries.
I think science and technology are big, big problems for these people. They need education for it and the more educated their people become the more they will question the sham of Islam and all the fairy tales about Mohammed. Educated people will demand democracy which is a direct threat to the control currently exerted by the muslim despots and clerics. Just think how many Christians still have problems with Darwin's theory of evolution and then try to tell muslims that they are descended from apes. Education, science and technology are incompatible with Islam.
#16
Educated people will demand democracy which is a direct threat to the control currently exerted by the muslim despots and clerics.
Educated?
Like Osama bin Laden? - Public Administration
Like Ayman Al Zawahiri? - Pediatric Surgeon
Like Mohammed Atta ? - Architect
Like Saeed Omar Sheik? - Economics
Like Anisa Andrabi ? - Biology
Andrabi's Duktran-e-Millat doesn't care much for democracy.. her girls want burqa and sharia law... all are educated, some with Masters degrees
Posted by: John Frum ||
05/18/2007 16:03 Comments ||
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#18
SecDef Gates just said the same thing as per Japan [GMD-TMD], and left open-ended the possibility of other Nations joing in. OTOH, KOMMERSANT/WORLDNEWS > unless I've missed something, RUSSIA is actually criticizing the Euros for NOT formally implementing the EU = EU-style, pan-Nation, Govt-Trade structures.
Moderately what? That's the question. I'm not sure my lips can pronounced the words "Pakistan" and "moderate" in the same sentence without a negative between them.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/18/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
What are they smokin' at State these daze?
Posted by: Captain America ||
05/18/2007 0:31 Comments ||
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#2
How do we survive when we have this pack of State Dept. weenies doing their damnedest to undermine us at every turn ?
In a bid to ward off a planned Turkish military campaign against bases of separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in north Iraq, Chief of Kurdistan region Masaud Al-Barazani intends to extradite leaders of the banned organization to Turkey.
The move is expected to push high the shares of Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) in presidential elections slated for July 22, local daily "Vatan" quoted a senior military official as saying in an interview to be published Friday.
Barazani will hand over leader of PKK military wing Murat Karailan and member of PKK command Jamil Beyk who lost their powers in the banned organization, the official who led several military operations against the PKK said on the condition of anonymity. The two elements, no longer accepted by the PKK, will be scapegoats to Turkish Prime Minister and AKP chairman Recep Tayyep Erdogan. Erdogan will use the gift to lobby for his party in the coming elections. He will say to the Turkish people "look and see how such problems can be solved through dialogue," said the military official whose secular establishment is staunch opponent of the former Islamist prime minister.
The move is likely to prevent a possible military intervention in northern Iraq to chase PKK militants, thus promoting Barazani's popularity, he added.
Interviewer: "Do you think that modern religious discourse differs from the religious discourse of the Prophet?"
Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari: "Of course. The proof is in the pudding. Today, there is a lot of extremism, a wave of extremism. This religious discourse has not managed to improve the youth, and this crisis proves it."
[...]
"This discourse does not address human beings as human beings. We lack what I call the 'culture of humanity.' We want to make our youth love human beings as human beings, before they love them for being Muslim or non-Muslim, Shi'ite or Sunni."
[...]
"The purpose of jihad is to respond to aggression and to eliminate injustice. The greater Jihad is the Jihad of the soul, of development, of education - so we can live - not just die - for the sake of Allah. Can what is happening in Algeria, Morocco, and Iraq be called jihad? A youth in the prime of life puts on an explosive belt, and blows himself up among innocent people, and you call this jihad and martyrdom?"
[...]
"The religious discourse generates a crisis. You go to a mosque, listen to the Friday prayer, and you return a bundle of nerves, feeling hostile toward civilization and society, because the sermons focus on the negative aspects of society, and inflate them."
Interviewer: "So what needs to be done?"
Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari: "We need to focus on the beautiful aspects of life and society. Not everything in life is tragic. You should make people love life. I would like the religious scholars, through their religious discourse, to make our youth love life, and not death."
[...]
Interviewer: "The American invasion of Iraq - isn't it a provocation to Arab mentality?"
Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari: "That's true. But there have always been international conflicts. Besides, it is not only the Muslims who are subject to these so-called injustices. Since America is a superpower, it intervenes in the affairs of all the other countries, and all the peoples suffer because of this. But the question is how to respond. Should I respond by sending my children to commit suicide and blow themselves up? Let's say we accept that a certain person is anti-American - what are the civilians, children and women in Algeria to blame? Are they Americans? I ask you, who are most of the victims of suicide operations and terrorism - the Muslims or the non-Muslims? They are Muslims. The number of people killed by Muslims carrying out suicide operations is far greater than those killed by the Americans or the Israelis."
Interviewer: "Why is this, in your opinion?"
Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari: "Since you allow him to blow himself up among the so-called enemy, and since he believes you do not belong to the same school or ideology, he considers you to be the enemy, and himself to be a martyr."
Suicide Operations Have Nothing To Do With Religion
Interviewer: "So the chain extends from one to another..."
Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari: "If you allow them to blow themselves up among Israeli citizens, they will end up blowing themselves up among Muslims citizens because they hold different views."
Interviewer: "Some time ago, you wrote an article in which you call upon the religious scholars to ban all suicide operations."
#4
The greater Jihad is the Jihad of the soul, of development, of education - so we can live - not just die
Doesn't seem to be turning out that way with your Global Jihad thingy.
Not everything in life is tragic.
We, not unless you're a Humiliated Muslim.
"If you allow them to blow themselves up among Israeli citizens, they will end up blowing themselves up among Muslims citizens because they hold different views."
Finally located that little snag in Yusuf Qaradawi's sanctioning of bomb vest murderers, did we? So, where's the death fatwa on Qaradawi? Better get one out before they put one out on you, Ansari.
The former editor of the London daily Al-Hayat, Jihad Al-Khazen, has reversed his recognition of the Palestinian unity government, of Fatah, and of Hamas, and has called on Arab countries to cut off relations with the Palestinian government.
In an article, he stated that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas should resign because of his weakness as a leader, and because of the smuggling into the Gaza Strip of weapons designated not against Israel but for civil war.
He said that the U.S. had pressured for elections in the PA knowing that Hamas would win, so that it would be able to boycott and besiege the Palestinians on the pretext that Hamas is a terror organization.
Well, it should be all but over now that Jesse's weighed in. I wonder if the Taliban ever got back to him?
Chicago - Ma'an - The American peace preacher, "Reverend" Jesse Jackson, expressed on Friday his sorrow over the inter-Palestinian clashes in the Gaza Strip which came after the formation of the Palestinian unity government, which was agreed under the patronage of Saudi Arabia and the Arab League. I'm sure "Reverend" Al will be adding his two cents tomorrow. It's another episode of Dueling Race Baiters...
Jackson pointed out that the Palestinian people, who have passed through much agony and pain, deserve to live in unity and dignity. He said, "The leadership of Hamas and Fatah must settle their disagreements peacefully and close their ranks in order to ease the suffering of the Palestinian people." Get back to killin them Hymies instead of yoselves.
Jackson also called on Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, and Hamas politburo chief Khalid Mash'al to give orders to their fighters to cease fire immediately."The international community monitors the events in Gaza Strip in sadness, but I hope the Palestinian leadership will halt the fighting and the agony that accompanies it," Jackson explained. ...and I thank you for this chance to shamelessly grandstand and contribute absolutely nothing. Keep hope alive!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/18/2007 11:00 Comments ||
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#2
I smell another Jesse intervention coming.
Posted by: Captain America ||
05/18/2007 11:09 Comments ||
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I'm hoping Jesse will personally go to try to bring about a ceasefire. If you do go Jesse, I don't think there is such a thing as "friendly fire" over there. It's all unfriendly.
#6
I agree JohnQC. Jesse should open a Rainbow PUSH office in Gaza and stay there until everybody gets along. As a man of peace, there is no doubt he will help those well meaning Paleo victims find their better angels.
Of course, if this plan doesn't work out and he gets kidnapped or shot, that would be positive in a different way: it would make me chuckle.
#8
Hey, we all know that fundamentalist Muslims are gonna listen to whatever a black Christian says. Send him over there to negotiate a settlement right now!
"As far as Hamas is concerned, the meaning of postponing the confrontation would be a substantial strengthening of Fatah. Hamas decided to embark on an organized and well-timed campaign: no more random incidents between the sides, but rather a full-fledged war plan, whose implementation began Sunday and whose aim is singular: winning. Hamas people bombarded Abu Mazen's presidential compound, attacked all the main command centers of Fatah mechanisms and laid ambushes for the adversary's forces. "
"S., who lives near Abu Mazen's presidential compound, related yesterday that she and her family haven't been out of the house for four days now. "We want to leave the Gaza Strip," she says. "But how are we going to get to the Rafah crossing point? And even if we do get there, it is closed." A. is dreaming of a different solution: "Every day that goes by only causes more people here to wish for the renewal of the Israeli occupation of Gaza. Let the Jews come already and save us."
Even today, the IDF will not be greeted in the Gaza Strip with flowers and rice, but in light of the crazy anarchy that prevails there, statements like that are no longer so exceptional."
CAIRO, Egypt - Arabs were in despair on Thursday over the Gaza fighting between Palestinians, and governments that have tried to mediate between the warring factions appeared to be at a loss over how to stop the bloodshed. The new explosion of violence strikes a blow to Arab efforts to win a resumption of the peace process with Israel. For months, Arab leaders have been trying to get the divided Palestinian factions in order to prove to Israel and the United States that now is the chance to talk peace.
As opposed to all the other times we talked peace. Worked well, too.
The infighting is a shame by all measures, Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of London-based Al Quds Al-Arabi newspaper wrote in a bleak editorial Thursday. They are fighting over an illusory power, a rotten corpse.
And they haven't hit bottom yet.
Saudi Arabia put its political clout on the line in February when it hosted a summit between the leaders of the mainstream Fatah faction and the militant Hamas - aimed at ending a previous bout of fighting between them. The summit between Fatahs Mahmoud Abbas, who is the ineffectual Palestinian president, and Hamas Khaled Mashaal ended with a power-sharing agreement.
Which lasted a couple days, about as long as we expected.
But Saudi Arabia has been silent since clashes between the two sides resumed this week, in five days of fighting that has killed at least 48 people. It is hard to see Saudis or anyone else expending political capital and sticking their neck out for the Palestinians while gunmen controlled by Hamas and Fatah turn Gaza into a homegrown killing field, Lebanons Daily Star newspaper said in an editorial.
Might as well see who's the last man standing. And then watch the Israelis cut that man down.
Other Arab leaders have been able to do little else but call for an end to the fighting. President Hosni Mubarak, who mediated between Abbas and Mashaal during a meeting in Cairo last month, spoke by phone with Abbas on Thursday, telling him, Palestinian blood is sacred.
It's okay when they say such nonsense to the western infidels, but when they talk to each other like this they're truly delusional.
Jordans King Abdullah II also spoke to Abbas, urging him to show some spine more resolve to end the fighting and to press Hamas to stop rocket attacks on Israel that threaten to widen the conflict.
Press Hamas .. how? The whole problem is that Mahmoud won't roll over and do as Hamas says.
Arab television stations showed constant images from Gaza, which looked like a war zone, with masked gunmen in the abandoned streets and people rushing the wounded away on stretchers. Al-Jazeera broadcast live from its offices in Gaza, where journalists in flak jackets and helmets were trapped as gunfire raged outside.
Funny, it didn't look near that bad when the Israelis were in charge.
Viewers in the Arab world - long loyal advocates of the Palestinian cause - were stunned. May God curse you all, renowned Egyptian columnist Ahmed Ragab wrote, referring to the Palestinian factions.
He did that long ago, Ahmed...
Some blamed the Palestinian factions for a futile fight over power. America, Israel and the whole West want to see us divided, said 47-year-old Kamal Abu-Zeid, wearing thick eyeglasses, and selling newspapers in front of Cairo University.
I don't know about the rest of America, but I'm certainly enjoying it.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/18/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Guess think, last week it was "take it or leave it" on the Arab Piece Plan.
Posted by: Captain America ||
05/18/2007 0:33 Comments ||
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Article: Some blamed the Palestinian factions for a futile fight over power. America, Israel and the whole West want to see us divided, said 47-year-old Kamal Abu-Zeid, wearing thick eyeglasses, and selling newspapers in front of Cairo University.
What planet are these guys on? Throughout the vast majority of history, unity is achieved not by consensus, but by one group imposing its will on another by force. This means dead bodies. Lot of them. Lemme tell ya - none of the Muslim empires was "united" by consensus. Neither were France, Britain or Germany. It took a lot of killing before the victorious faction eliminated all other challengers. Only after unification through war can the state grow strong.
#6
Arabs in DESPAIR while Paleos are DISPAIRING themselves => hamas/fatah dispairation along the lines of more holy/more infidel. 'S time IJ joined the fray, damn!
Actually, I don't think the despair is really so much there--rather out there in your face, Arabs pretending that they care deeply about Paleos and Gazans in particular.
#7
So, "Palestinian blood is sacred", eh King Abdullah II? Might want to break that news to the ghost of your father, who ordered in the Jordanian Army on the Paleos back in 1970 - the operation known by the Paleos as Black September. At least 20,000 Paleos died during that fight for the state of Jordan, maybe more since there was that one bulldozed refugee camp that no one got to look at for a few years.
When the Paleos get out of line, the Arabs are not slow in killing them : whether Jordanian, Egyptian, Syrian, or the like. The Arabs are just pissed that Paleos are killing each other, instead of murdering Jewish kindergardeners.
#8
When the Pallies hit bottom, and a Michael Collins figure springs up to enforce the peace, maybe a real country less dysfunctional than the rest of the Mid East can spring up from the ruins of Gaza and the West Bank.
#9
I guess they'll have to go to the UN, the supreme, enlightened, power-broker to the world. Of course they'll have to get in line, but by the year 2036 there should be a resolution or something passed to take care of this.
#10
"press Hamas to stop rocket attacks on Israel that threaten to widen the conflict.
Press Hamas .. how? "
By killing them, obviously. The story per Amos Harel of Haaretz, who I suspect has some very good sources, is that Fatah was getting lots in the way of arms and training from these very same arabs (Well from Egypt and Jordan, if not from KSA) and was preparing a move. Hamas struck preemptively, while Dahlan is hors de combat due to illness, and they are going for broke now, seeing this as their one best chance to break Fatah.
The implication for his story is this i think. The Egyptians and Jordanians (and maybe event the Saudis?) are now ready to break Hamas, and finally see the necessity for it. The rhetoric about sacred blood and all is the preparation to justify their openly supporting Fatah ("well yeah, we beleive in unity, and we would NEVER arm one faction against another, but ya know, Pal blood is sacred, we cant let the Hamasniks keep spilling it")
"But at the same time, said Gidi Grinstein, head of the Tel Aviv-based Reut think tank, certain factions inside Palestinian society were not interested in the two-state solution. They were, he said Thursday, interested in drawing Israel back into Gaza, perpetuating Israeli occupation, believing that this would lead to Israel's collapse from within.
In a paper Reut published last November, Grinstein wrote that the aim of this strategy "is to establish one Palestinian/Arab/Islamic state in place of Israel through actions that will bring about Israel's internal collapse as a state."
According to this strategy, "the occupation accelerates Israel's implosion and therefore should be sustained. Either way, the Hamas government in and of itself serves the 'Strategy of Implosion' because it creates a political deadlock, deepens the Palestinian crisis of representation, and erodes the PA's capacity to govern."
Grinstein, who was an adviser to Ehud Barak when Barak served as prime minister, said that the collapse of the PA - a situation of "non-governance there" - was bad for Israel. "We will have no one to talk to, and too many people to shoot at," he said.
"There are groups, Palestinian and Muslim Arabs, who are beginning to question whether their immediate goal should really be to try to push Israel out of the West Bank, and who are saying that the continuation of the occupation may accelerate Israel's implosion," he said.
Grinstein noted that over the last year, there has not been any significant pressure on Israel from the PA, or from the Arab world, to get out of the West Bank.
"We got used to an environment where there were powerful forces pushing us out of the West Bank," he said, saying that these voices have been silent for the last year.
Because of some of the Palestinian factions' desire that Israel remain an occupying force, the threat of the IDF moving back into Gaza is a hollow one. That's what they want, Grinstein said.
To support this argument, Grinstein quoted Damascus-based Hamas head Khaled Mashaal, who said in March 2006 that Hamas has always seen the establishment of the PA "as a mistake."
He said that Hamas would not "hesitate to declare the dissolution of the PA and the return back to square one: that of being under occupation."
The philosophy that Israel can be defeated easier from within than in a military attack from outside is also shared by Hizbullah's Hassan Nasrallah and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Grinstein said he doubted whether the current chaos was premeditated by Hamas to provoke an Israeli response that would draw it back into Gaza, but that local events - such as clan feuds over weapons and drug smuggling - have a dangerous momentum of their own, and that other issues can piggyback on them.
"
I would point out that just because certain factions want Gaza to be re-occupied is no reason for the Israelis to grant them their wish. Indeed, if I were the Israeli president (not happening), I'd be very diabolical about this: I'd wait til the Paleos were close to rock-bottom, and then I'd declare Gaza to be independent.
Now, the world wouldn't honor that, of course, but the simple declarations would make it clear that Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza, and (therefore) everything that happens in Gaza after that is on the Paleos. That would twist some knickers.
In no way shape or form should Israel play along with Hamas.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/18/2007 11:06 Comments ||
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#17
Paleo's celebrate Muzzi Gras in May. What lies ahead on Fat Tuesday?
#18
Could this "Arab despair" be a front of the War with Iran, since we know, Hamas is backed by Iran? Of course, I prolly missed it, but I don't remember reading of this much "intervention, concern and despair" by Arabs in this continuing saga. Kinda feels like some more "strong" words from the Arabs since Iran has now declared itself the dominate force in the region. Arabs stepping in to keep Iran from total control over the Palestinians.
I would point out that just because certain factions want Gaza to be re-occupied is no reason for the Israelis to grant them their wish."
Oh, I agree. Very strongly. Bibi is making noises about reoccupation. That could be cause he knows olmert wont do it, and is just scoring points while the qassams fall, or it could be he thinks Fatah is gonna win (dark as it looks for Fatah in Gaza now) and does NOT want that, as it would almost certainly force Israel to negotiate, and make a deal along Sharon-Olmert lines or face American wrath. Such a situation could break the Israeli right, which otherwise is in a pretty good position. Im NOT accusing Bibi of putting partisan interest over state interests - he may genuinely feel that a deal would be a profound mistake.
Note that the issue of "deterrent power" is in the air, post Lebanon. If the Qassams start hitting, that becomes more than rhetorical. And perhaps theres not a lot of willingness to trust to airpower alone, again post Lebanon.
" Indeed, if I were the Israeli president (not happening),"
Quick reminder, you mean PM, Israel is parliamentary, the Presidency of Israel is largely ceremonial, like the Presidency of Germany more than that of the US or France.
"I'd be very diabolical about this: I'd wait til the Paleos were close to rock-bottom, and then I'd declare Gaza to be independent."
Folks here are assuming theres a fixed number of fighters in Gaza, you just wait while they attrit each other, then there are none. I really dont think thats gonna be the dynamic here, I think someone is gonna start winning, and I dont think outsiders can control that. Maybe if Fatah were to feed fighters from the WB into a Hamas dominated battlefield, you could get something like WW1. I dont think Fatah will do that, though, not only cause theyre smarter than that, but cause of their own internal politics. Gaza is Dahlans turf, for Fatah. there are Fatah leaders in the WB who dont much like him. I think hes got a certain amount of rope, a certain amount of resources to beat Hamas. At some point, if the dudes in the WB decide Dahlan has failed, hes failed, and Fatah makes a strategic withdrawl to the West Bank.
"Now, the world wouldn't honor that, of course, but the simple declarations would make it clear that Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza, and (therefore) everything that happens in Gaza after that is on the Paleos. That would twist some knickers."
1. As long as they are still in the West Bank, its a pretty empty gesture, and I dont think it buys them that much in world opinion (maybe not zero, but not much
2. that has to be weighed against the disadvantage of giving up control over the sea lanes to Gaza, the airspace, any say in how the Rafah crossing to Egypt is managed, and whatever other residual rights they retain (I think thats about it) For them to try to retain control over the air space or sea lanes by force, having just said "gaza is independent" would leave them I think, looking worse than now.
"In no way shape or form should Israel play along with Hamas."
Yeah, I agree, but Im not trying to figure out whether or not to evacuate Sderot.
#23
Sderot's a simply solved problem. Station some serious artillery units close by for immediate counterbattery fire. Fire retaliatory rounds into the area launched from as soon as the launch is detected by radar. All of this was done during the Leb war. When Paleo civvies get killed in the retaliation, as they will, tell world opinion to get stuffed, and remind them that the Paleos have clearly demonstrated they don't give a damn about their own people, which is why the Paleo gunnies are firing from populated areas. Israel will just be utilizing its right to self-defense under international law and they should spin it exactly that way. Of course, we're talking as if any of the "world opinion" media scumbags actually cared about the right or wrong of any issue. Their attitude comes cut, dried and shrink-wrapped, and we know it before they even say it. If Israel does anything short of committing national suicide, they're wrong.
Posted by: Mac ||
05/18/2007 20:48 Comments ||
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#24
LH article: "But at the same time, said Gidi Grinstein, head of the Tel Aviv-based Reut think tank, certain factions inside Palestinian society were not interested in the two-state solution. They were, he said Thursday, interested in drawing Israel back into Gaza, perpetuating Israeli occupation, believing that this would lead to Israel's collapse from within.
In a paper Reut published last November, Grinstein wrote that the aim of this strategy "is to establish one Palestinian/Arab/Islamic state in place of Israel through actions that will bring about Israel's internal collapse as a state."
According to this strategy, "the occupation accelerates Israel's implosion and therefore should be sustained. Either way, the Hamas government in and of itself serves the 'Strategy of Implosion' because it creates a political deadlock, deepens the Palestinian crisis of representation, and erodes the PA's capacity to govern."
Just because the Pallies believe something doesn't mean it's true. In fact, if I had a dollar for every erroneous belief they held, I'd be a rich man. Al Qaeda thought 9/11 would cause the collapse of the American economy, a US disengagement from the Mid East, and at minimum, the collapse of the Muslim governments that it believed were kept standing only with Uncle Sam's help. It may be also be Hamas employing reverse psychology to avoid being crushed by Israel and sent into exile. Note that the days of full-scale Israeli occupation were times of peace and prosperity for the Palestinians - they were also times of zero suicide bombings for Israelis.
LH article: Grinstein, who was an adviser to Ehud Barak when Barak served as prime minister, said that the collapse of the PA - a situation of "non-governance there" - was bad for Israel. "We will have no one to talk to, and too many people to shoot at," he said.
I think the Labor Party just wants not to be hated by the Europeans. Israel did just fine when it occupied the West Bank and Gaza.
Iran has installed 1,600 centrifuges used for enriching uranium and is pressing ahead with more as part of its nuclear program, a senior Iranian official was quoted May 17 as saying.
The figure confirms what diplomats who follow Irans case have been saying about the number installed so far. Iran has said it is setting up 3,000 of the machines, which can make fuel for nuclear power plants or, if desired, material for warheads.
Iran insists its plans are peaceful, although Western capitals say Tehrans goal is nuclear bombs.
Iran is installing 3,000 centrifuges in the Natanz facility and currently has 1,600 active centrifuges, Abdolreza Rahmani-Fazli, deputy secretary of the Supreme National Security Council, was quoted as saying by Irans Mehr News Agency.
Natanz is in central Iran.
With 3,000 centrifuges, all running smoothly, Iran could make enough material for at least one warhead in a year, Western diplomats say. But they have said the country has faced technical glitches with smaller numbers hampering the work. Iran has said its goal to build more than 50,000 centrifuges.
Posted by: ed ||
05/18/2007 06:57 ||
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all running smoothly
Not very likely.
And these things, even if underground, require a very visible, and vulnerable, electricity supply.
Posted by: John Frum ||
05/18/2007 7:08 Comments ||
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#2
"And these things, even if underground, require a very visible, and vulnerable, electricity supply."
I'm not sure about that. Electromagnetic separation requires a huge supply of electricity to power the electromagnets in the cyclotrons. But I suspect the power required to run centrifuges is lower by several orders of magnitude. If not, where would all the energy go? Into heating up bearings or heating up the UF6 gas, neither of which is desireable.
I suspect that the energy needs of even a large assemblage of centrifuges could be met by a moderate-sized diesel generation plant, and that can be kept underground with its intake/exhaust system distributed to reduce both thermal signature and vulnerability to attack.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/18/2007 7:26 Comments ||
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Not as much power as you may expect. A read centrifuge uses about 40 watts. 1600 of these use less electricity than a decent Home Depot lighting section (I'm just barely kidding). A 240 volt 225kVA transformer feed is enough to power a 3,000 centrifuge cascade, let alone common industrial 480V power feeds. Power conditioning and heat removal solutions are well known.
Posted by: ed ||
05/18/2007 7:32 Comments ||
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These things do not like vibration from external sources I think I heard.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The parents of the kidnapped journalist Alan Johnston celebrated his 45th birthday without him yesterday, forced to broadcast touching messages of support and reassurance in the hope they may reach him where- ever he is being held. The messages came as it was revealed that the government has been in talks with a jailed radical cleric in Britain over the possibility of him making an appeal for Mr Johnston's release. 
NORFOLK, Va. -- Two days before a Navy lawyer allegedly mailed a list of Guantánamo captives' names to a New York human rights group -- tucked inside a Valentine -- he signed a military form agreeing not to disclose ''any government information,'' according to testimony at his court-martial Tuesday.
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has called for adopting means for collective self- defence of the Muslim countries to ward off external aggression.
In a bid to ward off a planned Turkish military campaign against bases of separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in north Iraq, Chief of Kurdistan region Masaud Al-Barazani intends to extradite leaders of the banned organization to Turkey. 
CAIRO, Egypt - Arabs were in despair on Thursday over the Gaza fighting between Palestinians, and governments that have tried to mediate between the warring factions appeared to be at a loss over how to stop the bloodshed. The new explosion of violence strikes a blow to Arab efforts to win a resumption of the peace process with Israel. For months, Arab leaders have been trying to get the divided Palestinian factions in order to prove to Israel and the United States that now is the chance to talk peace.
Other Arab leaders have been able to do little else but call for an end to the fighting. President Hosni Mubarak, who mediated between Abbas and Mashaal during a meeting in Cairo last month, spoke by phone with Abbas on Thursday, telling him, Palestinian blood is sacred.
