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Split in Hamas? 2 Hamas officials move to Syria
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 3: Non-WoT
4 00:00 RD [7] 
3 00:00 JosephMendiola [5] 
2 00:00 JosephMendiola [13] 
9 00:00 Glenmore [6] 
4 00:00 Jackal [4] 
14 00:00 Eric Jablow [6] 
16 00:00 Old Patriot [4] 
8 00:00 JosephMendiola [6] 
11 00:00 JosephMendiola [4] 
14 00:00 JosephMendiola [5] 
22 00:00 trailing wife [7] 
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2 00:00 Mizzou Mafia [7] 
6 00:00 Thinemp Whimble2412 [5] 
6 00:00 Jackal [8] 
3 00:00 trailing wife [6] 
5 00:00 RD [5] 
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11 00:00 Shipman [4] 
14 00:00 Shipman [6] 
6 00:00 Glenmore [4] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
6 00:00 newc [7]
3 00:00 trailing wife [7]
2 00:00 Seafarious [6]
16 00:00 JosephMendiola [11]
20 00:00 Barbara Skolaut [8]
17 00:00 Shipman [10]
1 00:00 Virgin Nazi [4]
4 00:00 Shipman [8]
2 00:00 49 Pan [5]
4 00:00 Old Patriot [7]
2 00:00 JohnQC [5]
33 00:00 garbagecowboy [4]
16 00:00 Barbara Skolaut [7]
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1 00:00 Jomomp Hupusotch7840 [8]
5 00:00 Shipman [8]
1 00:00 Ebbolump Glomotle9608 [5]
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4 00:00 Shipman [4]
1 00:00 Brett [4]
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Page 2: WoT Background
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Page 4: Opinion
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Page 5: Russia-Former Soviet Union
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2 00:00 borgboy [7]
2 00:00 JosephMendiola [4]
10 00:00 JosephMendiola [4]
7 00:00 JosephMendiola [9]
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4 00:00 Thinemp Whimble2412 [5]
-Short Attention Span Theater-
American Women: Less Sleep Means More Stress Means Less Sex
The National Sleep Foundation has found that 60% of American women get insufficient sleep and thus suffer serious consequences.

As many as 60 per cent of American women seldom get a good night’s sleep while 67 per cent say they frequently have a sleep problem. The lack of sleep affects them in more ways than one, as stress levels rise, sex sounds exhausting and their schedule leaves little time for friends.
Posted by: DanNY || 03/07/2007 20:54 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If insufficient sleep causes many women to feel that "sex sounds exhausting", isn't more sex the answer to the insufficient sleep problem?

Posted by: GORT || 03/07/2007 21:32 Comments || Top||

#2  GORT, how do we sell that idea?
Posted by: JohnQC || 03/07/2007 21:53 Comments || Top||

#3  Wake me up when you figure it out. ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/07/2007 22:24 Comments || Top||

#4  win win, have sex with the wife when she's asleep!

;-)
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 23:16 Comments || Top||


Bald Headed K-Fed Says He Did It For Britney
While his ex-wife, pop princess Britney Spears, is in rehab after she shaved her head completely bald, Kevin Federline reportedly told some of his friends he shaved his head too in order to show her his support. The rapper wannabe’s buddies insist that K-Fed is still in love with Britney and that’s why he sticks with her through these hard times. "He said he still loves her money," The Sun quoted a pal as saying.

Britney isn’t far from feeling the same way Kevin Federline does. Her friends say she not only wants him back, but wants to have another child with him. "Britney has realized what a bucket on her foot millstone around her neck rock Kevin has been to her, and how out of control she has acted recently. She has been talking to Kevin every night for hours on the phone, telling him she still loves him. She just wants to be with him again, and thinks having another baby will seal their marriage," the source said.

However, according to recent reports, Britney isn’t doing very well in rehab. Us Weekly claims her cousin Alli has all but moved into the clinic to help keep an eye on her but the family still don’t think it’ll be enough to keep Britney on track. A source told the magazine: “They hope that Britney will stay at Promises for a month, but they’re nervous she might not last that long.”

After Britney checked herself in the Promises rehabilitation center in Malibu, British tabloid News of the World reported that the staff at the clinic said she was put on “suicide watch” after she tried to hang herself with a bed sheet.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Did he shave anything else?
Posted by: gorb || 03/07/2007 2:50 Comments || Top||

#2  This Federline fellow sure has good advisers, and he listens to them.
Posted by: gromky || 03/07/2007 4:22 Comments || Top||

#3  Give K-Fed credit for at least some ability to laugh at his own absurdity--a quality B-Spears will never possess. Still, . . . this is just creepy.
Posted by: Mike || 03/07/2007 8:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Hey, I hear Anna Nicole Smith died...
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 8:39 Comments || Top||

#5  Bury James Brown, y'all.
Posted by: wxjames || 03/07/2007 10:00 Comments || Top||

#6  The rumor I heard is Britney had her head shaved because she was afraid KFed was going to have a sample of her hair tested for drugs.
Posted by: treo || 03/07/2007 10:28 Comments || Top||

#7  Am I glad this bitch is still alive. Hopefully, she dies the day my trial starts.
Posted by: Astronaut Lisa Nowak || 03/07/2007 10:32 Comments || Top||

#8  well i know from experience they can get the hair from anywhere. so she may have shaved her arms legs twat and anywhere else she had any.
Posted by: sinse || 03/07/2007 13:09 Comments || Top||

#9  She has been talking to Kevin every night for hours on the phone,

Didn't Dante include that on one of the concentric circles of hell?
Posted by: Capsu78 || 03/07/2007 13:24 Comments || Top||

#10  Could be worse, she could have been singing to him for hours over the phone.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 03/07/2007 14:21 Comments || Top||

#11  Damn it! There's a white chile amising in Aruba! Get yawlz butt in gear.
Posted by: Shipman || 03/07/2007 21:45 Comments || Top||


-Signs, Portents, and the Weather-
Quake survivors afraid to return
When was the last time an earthquake hit The World's Largest Lutheran Nation?
Thousands of Indonesians are spending the night in the open after a powerful earthquake which destroyed many homes and left at least 70 people dead. Many are afraid to return to their homes, while others have no home left. The authorities fear the death toll may rise as search teams sift through the rubble, but hope some of those missing may be pulled out alive.

The 6.3 magnitude quake struck close to the city of Padang in the west of Sumatra island on Tuesday morning. The quake and a powerful aftershock had caused panic among residents, bringing many rushing out of their homes and offices. "I ran out of the house, but I was hit by a collapsing building," said Misbadi, 50, who broke his arm and was one of thousands of people who headed to hospitals in Padang. Treatment areas were set up outside amid fears of aftershocks.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wearing Togas and obeying Socialist-Globalist universal statutory poverty will force the Sun into surrender.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 2:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Yeah! And what is the World's Largest Lutheran Nation, anyway?
Posted by: Bobby || 03/07/2007 6:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Swaziland?
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 03/07/2007 6:32 Comments || Top||

#4  I'd figure the US has more Lutherans than anyone else, if you only count people who actually believe. I think we still have more Jews than Israel. Now, if you count people who check "Lutheran" on a census form, even if atheist, maybe Sweden?
Posted by: Jackal || 03/07/2007 6:48 Comments || Top||

#5  This has to be at least the third substantial earthquake in Indonesia in a month. A lot of tectonic stress is being relieved - but that means a lot of stress is building up elsewhere on the fault system(s). Are these shocks building up for a really big one (foreshocks), or are they still part of the wind-down from the tsunami quake two years ago (aftershocks)? Or is it Halliburton?
Posted by: Glenmore || 03/07/2007 7:04 Comments || Top||

#6  Wow, I've gotta add that that may be the BEST Joe M comment I've EVER read!
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 8:45 Comments || Top||

#7  We need a Joe and Mucky Classic section in RB. BettyCrockerCrats was a keeper, also, LOL!
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/07/2007 11:09 Comments || Top||

#8  The 6.3 magnitude quake struck close to the city of Padang?

6.3 is nothing. We get those in California all the time and our buildings are still standing. Try a 7.3. Try some building codes you ignorant moon worshippers and try getting help from your fellow moon worshippers.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 03/07/2007 12:07 Comments || Top||

#9  JOE
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 13:17 Comments || Top||

#10  Fact is the quakes are hitting the section of Indonesia that has the most hard core fundamentalists. If the CIA and company can't figure out some psy op to spread the rumors that Allah is displeased at the fundamentalists they aren't even trying.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 14:48 Comments || Top||

#11  Re Joe: Don't forget his "Penn State sub shop".

We are in the presence of greatness.
Posted by: GORT || 03/07/2007 16:56 Comments || Top||

#12  Indonesia just got hit again, this time in the Mollucas islands - 5.3 on the Richter scale. This is the third 5.0 or larger quake in the area in the last week. USGS says it was 68 miles deep - probably more stress realignment from the Dec 26, 2005, quake. There WILL be more, I'm sure.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/07/2007 19:35 Comments || Top||

#13  #12 OP: "There WILL be more, I'm sure."

Insha'Allah.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 03/07/2007 20:45 Comments || Top||

#14  JOE! NOW MORE THAN EVER!
Posted by: Shipman || 03/07/2007 21:46 Comments || Top||


Africa North
Egypt, EU launch $730 million aid for reform plan
BRUSSELS - The European Union and Egypt launched an ambitious plan on Tuesday under which the EU will provide aid of 558 million euros ($732 million) to encourage political, economic and social reform in Egypt. The EU cash, provided under Europe’s Neighbourhood Policy Action Plan for promoting reforms in countries close to the bloc’s borders, covers the period from 2007-2010.

EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner said the plan was a catalyst for change enabling the two sides to ‘significantly deepen our relationship,’ but Egypt stressed it would carry out the reforms it wanted at its own pace.
And boy howdy, the $2 billion a year we send the Egyptians sure has catalyzed reform, hasn't it?
‘The Europeans are encouraging such commitment on our part but it is an Egyptian decision,’ Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit told a news briefing after talks with EU officials. ‘Whether it is the suggested amendents to the constitution, or changes in the body politic of the Egyptian laws and legal system and the modernisation of the judiciary...these are issues related to Egypt and Egypt will do it according to its own pace and according to whatever results Egypt desires,’ he said.
"Took thousands of years to build the pyramids, right? And you want us to reform in less time thann that? What sense does that make, riddle me that?" he added.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Egypt an ‘important strategic partner’ for the 27-state European Union and termed it ‘an ambitious and good’ action plan. Ferrero-Waldner said the plan would speed up change in Egypt in areas ranging from education to trade, energy, health and the environment.
All the things that a sovereign nation is supposed to do for itself but that Egypt somehow hasn't managed to do.
It took 18 months of negotiations before the two sides were able to put the plan into action, and required EU and Egyptian officials to patch up disagreements over human rights and over declaring the Middle East a nuclear weapon-free zone.
So the Y'urp-peons can't even give away $700 million quickly?
Egypt’s human rights record has deteriorated since 2005 elections, which brought a temporary relaxation of state controls. In many prominent cases, Egyptian courts have jailed people for the peaceful expression of their opinions.
Which, given the new French law that bans citizens from taking crime pictures, means the EU and the Egyptians are in surprising agreement on human rights.
As a compromise, the two sides agreed to deal with political matters, democracy and human rights in one of eight subcommittees set up under the plan.
And you know how much the Y'urp-peons love their committees!
The two sides had also disagreed on an Egyptian proposal to declare the Middle East a region free of nuclear weapons. A senior European diplomat said last year the Europeans did not want any reference to the Egyptian proposal in the agreement for fear of confrontation with Israel, which is widely believed to possess nuclear weapons. The text of the agreement called for promotion of the aim of pursuing ‘a mutually and effectively verifiable Middle East zone free of weapons of mass destruction and the delivery systems.’

The EU aid package includes 58 million euros in interest rate subsidies, which could help Egypt get loans worth between 250 million and 300 million euros, the European Commission said.
From Y'urp-peon banks, of course, thus spreading their influence further. Sure hope the banks don't end up holding the bag on the next revolution.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  the EU will provide aid of 558 million euros ($732 million) to encourage political, economic and social reform in Egypt

Wouldn't be this money more productively spent by launching perpetuum mobile project to resolve the World's impeding energy crisis?
Posted by: gromgoru || 03/07/2007 3:38 Comments || Top||

#2  Anybody got Benita's number? Just because I didn't hit the Mega Millions last night doesn't mean I shouldn't be rich.
I'm willing to reform, but at my own pace and I think I can do it for only 200 million. Whaddya say, Benita?
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 9:26 Comments || Top||

#3  So the Y'urp-peons can't even give away $700 million quickly?

The EU economy is not growing as expected, oddly enough. No doubt they had to wait anyway for the next round of tax payments to be mailed in before they could disburse any funds.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/07/2007 12:33 Comments || Top||


Africa Subsaharan
French soldiers kill one at Ivory Coast roadblock
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 03/07/2007 13:40 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  No Blood For... what do they have in the Ivory Coast again?
Posted by: Secret Master || 03/07/2007 14:39 Comments || Top||

#2  End The Occupation --- Free the Ivory Coast
Posted by: macofromoc || 03/07/2007 15:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Cocoa?
Posted by: gromgoru || 03/07/2007 21:25 Comments || Top||

#4  No blood for choc... Hmmmm. Actually, carry on.
Posted by: Jackal || 03/07/2007 22:27 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Saudi Women Demand Equal Citizenship Rights
Mohammed Noor Baksh, a 60-year-old Pakistani driver, has been married to a Saudi woman for 27 years and hasn’t traveled outside the Kingdom for the past 15 years. He has two daughters — one 21-year-old and the other 19-year-old — and a 14-year-old son. When he tried getting his children Saudi nationality, he hit a snag.

Baksh’s son wasn’t the problem: When he turns 18 he can apply for citizenship with a strong likelihood of eventually being granted citizenship as the male offspring of a Saudi woman. The girls, however, are barred from the same process, jeopardizing their access to social benefits accorded to Saudi citizens. To get citizenship, Baksh was told they would need to marry Saudis. “I applied to the Department of Civil Affairs in Makkah and Jeddah to obtain for my children and myself Saudi citizenship, but my attempts failed,” he said. “They told me that my daughters could get citizenship only if they marry Saudi men and because I don’t have a degree I can’t become Saudi.”

Recently the Shoura Council approved legislation granting citizenship to foreign-born women married to Saudi men, as well as widows of deceased Saudis. The law does not include Saudi women married to foreigners, so the hurdles for Saudi women obtaining citizenship for the children of their foreign husbands continue.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  good luck.
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 1:43 Comments || Top||

#2  I say turnabout is fair play. Why don't other countries return the favor by making it just as much of a pain and a submission for Saudis to become citizens in other countries?
Posted by: gorb || 03/07/2007 2:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Women Demand

Kill, kill, kill.
Posted by: Sheikh Onnan || 03/07/2007 3:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Good point Gorb.
Posted by: John || 03/07/2007 9:55 Comments || Top||

#5  What RD said: Good luck with that.
Posted by: Excalibur || 03/07/2007 14:33 Comments || Top||

#6  That's blasphemy! Punishable by death. Execute all the females of KSA!
(That will solve a whole lot of problems within a generation - or lack thereof.)
Posted by: Glenmore || 03/07/2007 18:26 Comments || Top||


Bangladesh
ntv MD arrested, his Hummer seized
Joint forces yesterday arrested the managing director of private satellite TV station ntv Enayetur Rahman and former BNP lawmaker Harunur Rashid, seizing Enayet's luxury sport utility vehicle (SUV) -- a Hummer H2.

In separate actions, joint forces arrested three local BNP leaders in Khagrachhari, two in Noakhali and seized 86 corrugated iron (CI) sheets meant for relief. The home ministry said in the 24 hours up to 6:00am yesterday, police and Rapid Action Battalion (Rab) arrested 1,604 people including 826 wanted criminals and 31 convicts while the armed forces arrested 15 including eight criminals.

Rab spotted Enayet's Hummer in front of the UTC building on Panthapath Monday night and they asked the ntv MD to appear in person at Rab camp in Mohammadpur with documents in support of the vehicle. They also asked Harunur Rashid -- a former lawmaker from Chapainawabganj -- to appear at the same time as they suspected that the vehicle was imported tax-free using Harun's privilege as a lawmaker. When the men presented themselves at the camp yesterday afternoon, joint forces arrested them. They were being quizzed at the Rab camp till the filing of this report at 8:00pm.

Rab officials said Harun brought in the SUV on April 25, 2005. The following day Enayetur bought the truck for $18,450. At that time, its market price was about $80,000.
The Hummer H2 (Dhaka Metro Gha 11-6795), which retails at between $54,850 and $64,625 in the US, was taken to Rab 2 office at Moghbazar. Commanding officer of Rab 2 Akbar Hossain confirmed Enayet and Harun's arrests and the vehicle seizure. Rab officials said Harun brought in the SUV on April 25, 2005. The following day Enayetur bought the truck for $18,450. At that time, its market price was about $80,000.

In Rajshahi, joint forces arrested Shahadat Hossain Sahu, Awami League-backed Rajshahi City Corporation commissioner of ward 17, from his office at Nawdapara on Monday night on charges of grabbing public lands and patronising terrorism. The forces also raided his house and seized land deeds, bank account books, and cellular phone sets. Sahu is said to own three buildings in the city, a hotel, a community centre and 12 shops.

In Noakhali, the joint forces arrested Abu Sayed Chowdhury, local BNP leader and chairman of Mohammadpur UP, and Mohammad Ali Tofadar, Chatkhil municipality BNP president, for corruption, misappropriation of public funds and land.

In Khagrachhari, police arrested district Jubo Dal president Saidul Islam Babul, municipality BNP secretary Joynal Patwari and organising secretary Ahsan Ullah Milon from their houses.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I wonder how much it's going to cost to get out from under this one.
Posted by: gorb || 03/07/2007 2:51 Comments || Top||

#2  "You're free to go, but you gotta leava da Hummer."
Posted by: Bobby || 03/07/2007 6:15 Comments || Top||

#3  Oh, man...not the Hummer!
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 9:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Okay, you keep the Hummer, but leave the deeds.
Sign 'em over first.
Posted by: wxjames || 03/07/2007 9:57 Comments || Top||

#5  RAB lads are doing doughnuts in the parking lot with that Hummer right now ...
Posted by: Steve White || 03/07/2007 10:43 Comments || Top||

#6  I'm picturing an H2 Shutter Gun Transport.
Posted by: Jackal || 03/07/2007 22:28 Comments || Top||


Bangladesh luxury home sales plunge
Sales of luxury flats and cars have almost ground to a halt in Bangladesh since the new government launched a nationwide crackdown on corruption, company officials say. The authorities started to tackle widespread graft in late January after a military-backed government came to power with a pledge to wage an all-out fight on graft and go after underworld-linked politicians. “The sales of luxury flats are almost nil. Only a few NRBs (non-resident Bangladeshis) are buying some flats,” said Abdul Awal, president of Real Estate and Housing Association of Bangladesh (REHAB). The sales of luxury cars like BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Porsche have also crashed.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So now they'll have to traffic drugs or women/children to afford their Escalade?
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 03/07/2007 6:23 Comments || Top||

#2  I don't care how much of this luxury shit you own, you still own it in Bangladesh.
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 8:37 Comments || Top||

#3  What's next? Yacht sales down during monsoon season? Oh well, at least the global financial meltdown™ will allow us to consume less fossil fuels, so Al Gore should be happy!
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 8:48 Comments || Top||

#4  Ya know, the same thing would happen in NYC if/when we kick the UN out on their well-oiled heinies...
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/07/2007 11:04 Comments || Top||

#5  Ya know, the same thing would happen in NYC if/when we kick the UN out on their well-oiled heinies...

that image is perfect Emily, how did an organization that was founded on noble precepts manage to become over-run with such disgraceful a$$holes.

To busy running up the exclusive hi-life, bar tabs and spy rings, getting parking tickets and scheming on UN slush funds instead of serving the hopeless all over the world.
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 17:18 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
US Defense Secretary Says China Is Not Strategic Threat
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Wednesday he does not consider China a strategic threat, in spite of the country's sharply rising defense spending and capability. Still, the top U.S. military officer says the United States must be prepared to respond to any threat that develops. VOA's Al Pessin reports from the Pentagon.

Secretary Gates told a news conference China's rising military spending does not by itself represent a threat, unless it is accompanied by an intention to confront the United States.

"I do not see China, at this point, as a strategic adversary of the United States," said Robert Gates. "It's a partner in some respects. It's a competitor in other respects. And so we are simply watching to see what they're doing."

I can't decide whether this is willful ignorance or a desire to play on Chinese feelings of inadequacy...
Posted by: DanNY || 03/07/2007 20:47 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They used to be a strategic threat. When did China get religion?
Posted by: JohnQC || 03/07/2007 21:55 Comments || Top||

#2  The Chicoms have said they need "living space" -by Gates' scope neither Hitler nor Stalin were strategic threats either in their ambitions. Going by recent News articles, it appears that the armed forces of North Korea, China, and Russia are making decisions and comments outside of normal Political or Govt. control. E.g. TAIWAN > any CHINA-TAIWAN conflict was belabeled as akin to pan-Chinese "HOLY/SPIRITUAL WAR", "WAR UNDER HEAVEN", or "WAR FOR FATE OF CHINESE HISTORY, BELIEFS, AND CIVILIZATION".
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 22:10 Comments || Top||

#3  Can Commies have or declare JIHAD???
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 22:12 Comments || Top||


Chinese brass says aircraft carrier possible by 2010
China could build its first aircraft carrier by 2010 if current research and development proceeds smoothly, a Hong Kong newspaper quoted a Chinese general as saying on Wednesday. The Beijing-funded Wen Wei Po newspaper identified the source as a "zhong jiang," meaning lieutenant general or vice admiral, depending on the service, and a member of the military delegation at a parliament session in Beijing. It did not give further details.

Experts say China's military has been researching carriers for years as a way to protect its interests offshore, but there has been no formal admission of a program to build one.

China has been modernizing its military with an emphasis on naval and air power to strengthen its hand with regard to Taiwan and too also better protect its economic interests such as shipping lanes in the South China Sea.

Beijing says its military is only for defense, but the rapid upgrade of its capabilities in recent years has worried some in the region.
I almost believe them. A real navy is essential for a nation dependent on foreign trade. Right now, the USN has them by the short and curlies.
Posted by: gromky || 03/07/2007 04:12 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...They've had access to some fairly sturdy carrier technology for almost 15 years now, and a Chinese CV is always 'right around the corner'. For them to have a carrier completed by 2010, it would have to have been laid down within the last year or so,and I think we would have seen something that big.
The problem is - and I'm guessing the Chinese have figured this out, they're no dummies - that for a modern aircraft carrier to be survivable, it has to be a USN style, USN sized,
nuclear powered supercarrier with a solid logistic support system. The ex-Soviet ships they've been dissecting are simply too small for safe, effective operations, and conventional CVs have to operate at the end of a supply chain that took us decades to work safely and effectively. The Chinese don't have the huge at-sea replenishment infrastructure that is required to keep even one carrier at sea and operational, and that takes almost as long to build as the carrier. And I'd point out that Communist nations have never been big on the beans-and-bullets side of things; they want big shiny weapons and they want them NOW. The PRC could operate its carrier from a port, but if it's tied to a routine of having to go back to port every few days to refuel/replenish, it's useless. Having to do that with three or four carriers (which they might have somewhere around 2025 at this rate)is worse than useless.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 8:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Once again, I wonder, could the US really throw a monkey wrench into the Chinese plan by selling the USS Kennedy to India, for them to use as a reverse engineering model to build their own carriers, which they are keen to do?

If India started cranking out better carriers than China could muster, it would both put a crimp in the Chinese plans, balance their forces in the region, and force them to spend a LOT *more* money on building carriers themselves. OLD style carriers, that are far less effective than our new ones.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 8:44 Comments || Top||

#3  There was an article here a couple years ago speculating that the Japanese might buy USS Kitty Hawk. Sell Big John to India, another conventional CV to Japan--hmmmmm.
Posted by: Mike || 03/07/2007 8:51 Comments || Top||

#4  ...are simply too small for safe, effective operations.

I don't think the Chinese have yet developed a 'taste' for safety that Americans wade through daily. Even then, its not civilian 'safe' operating on the deck of an American carrier either.

The assumption here is that the Chinese carriers are meant as a specific counter to American seapower. Given that China will be a serious oil import nation for a while, projection to protect their trade interests would be definitely be in their plans. That would include the ability to protect their supply line from less than American style threats. The security fumbling down around the Malacca Straights should give any planner enough rationale for small carrier capability, given that locale governments, while demonstratively unable to curtail piracy, are unlikely to 'invite' a foreign power to base forces from their territory to do the job.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 03/07/2007 8:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Moose,
IIRC - and I may be wrong on this - the Indians have had a long-standing deal with the French to eventually build a conventional version of the Charles DeGaulle. As much as I'd love to give the Indians a couple of our old CVs or the plans thereto, the fact is that the manning and maintenance requirements for one of those monsters is just beyond their capability right now.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 9:03 Comments || Top||

#6  Methinks there will be a big diference in how the Chinese (a traditional land-power) will use a carrier, and how the West does.

Think lily-pad power projection, or floating expeditionary airfield rather than embarked air wings.
Posted by: Pappy || 03/07/2007 10:04 Comments || Top||

#7  Small carriers are fine depending on what you want to do with them. HMS Ocean, for example, is a small - by US Marine Corps standards - British helicopter carrier that nevertheless allows the UK to project power in smaller conflicts. The problems for China, it seems to me, are two-fold: First, carrier engineering is not easy, there are perhaps four - more likely two - yards in the world that know what they are doing with this technology. Second, a carrier is valueless independent of its associated battlegroup. This means your costs are not only for the carrier itself - including its strike wing and other aircraft - but for associated missile cruisers, destroyers, oilers/auxiliaries and at least one hunter/killer SSN (SSKs are not going to cut it for this task in blue water). In some ways the expense of the associated battlegroup is less problematical for the ChiComs than the communications and coordination of the group particularly in responding to incoming missile attack. Can the Chinese manage all this? I believe so. Can they do so by 2010? Not a prayer.
Posted by: Excalibur || 03/07/2007 10:32 Comments || Top||

#8  One other thing, unless you have the aircraft and men to operate on a carrier. They would have tostart training and work ups now. Without a trained and certified air wing then the thing is just a helicopter landing pad
Posted by: AGT1500 engineer || 03/07/2007 13:40 Comments || Top||

#9  Nice to see the PRC Navy has almost caught up to WW2 technology. Their airforce must be laughing.

Trush is China would be better of building nuke reactors and getting their asses off of oil entirely. Then they would not have such a vunerable life-line that could be chopped by terrorist or the US navy. Then they could proclaim they are leading the world in clean energy or whatever makes them feel holier than though. Then they could build a proper space ship (damn the environment we're going to Mars!) and shame the rest of us.

If you're gonna have a police state at least do it properly.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 14:58 Comments || Top||

#10  IIRC - and I may be wrong on this - the Indians have had a long-standing deal with the French to eventually build a conventional version of the Charles DeGaulle

No. The French company DCN is design consultant for the indigenous Indian carrier being built now in India. That vessel has already been criticized by a committee of the Indian parliament as being too small for effective operations.

There are three new large commercial shipyards being setup in India now that could construct carrier sized vessels so the next generation of Indian carriers will probably be larger. The Viraat (ex HMS Hermes) will be retired in less than a decade and the Vikramaditya (ex Admiral Gorshkov) is probably a stopgap measure until more Indian carriers can be constructed.
Posted by: John Frum || 03/07/2007 17:37 Comments || Top||

#11  Hmmmm, maybe they're looking at the US experience with the old WW2-era "jeep" carriers (CVEs) that were being turned out in droves by late-43 mid-44.

From Wikipedia,

In US service, they were initially referred to as auxiliary aircraft escort vessels (hull classification symbol AVG) and then auxiliary aircraft carrier (ACV) before the Navy settled on the type description escort aircraft carrier. Escort carriers were given the US Navy hull classification symbol CVE — this was sarcastically said by their crews to stand for "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable". They were informally known as "Jeep carriers" or "baby flattops." It was quickly found that the escort carriers were better aircraft platforms than the light carriers, which tended to pitch badly in moderate to high seas, and as a result, many more of them were ordered.

Escort carriers were typically around 500 ft (150 m) long, not much more than half the length of the almost 900 ft (300 m) fleet carriers of the same era, but actually less than one-third of the size: a typical escort carrier displaced about 8,000 tons, as compared to almost 30,000 tons for a full-size fleet carrier. The aircraft hangar typically ran only a third of the way under the flight deck and housed a combination of 24 to 30 fighters and bombers organized into one single 'composite squadron'. (A late Essex class fleet carrier could carry a total of 103 aircraft organized into separate fighter, bomber and torpedo-bomber squadrons)

The islands of these ships were small and cramped, located well forward of the funnels (unlike on a normal-sized carrier where the funnels were integrated into the island). Although the first escort carriers had only one aircraft elevator, two elevators, one fore and one aft, quickly became standard, so did the one aircraft catapult. The carriers employed the same system of arresting cables and tailhooks and procedures for launch and recovery were the same as on the big carriers.

The crew size was less than a third of that of a large carrier, but this was still a bigger complement than most naval vessels. It was large enough to justify the existence of facilities such as a permanent canteen or snack bar, called a gedunk bar, in addition to the mess. The bar was open for longer hours than the mess and sold several flavors of ice cream, along with cigarettes and other consumables. There were also several vending machines, which made a "gedunk" sound when operated.

Originally developed at the behest of the United Kingdom to operate as part of a North Atlantic convoy escort rather than as part of a naval strike force, many of the escort carriers produced were assigned to the Royal Navy for the duration of the war under the Lend-lease act. They supplemented and then replaced the converted merchant aircraft carriers which were put into service by the British and Dutch as an emergency measure until the escort carriers became available. As convoy escorts, they were used by the Royal Navy, to provide air scouting, to ward off enemy long-range scouting aircraft and increasingly to spot and hunt submarines. Often additional escort carriers also joined convoys, not as fighting ships but as transporters, ferrying aircraft from the US to Britain. In this case the aircraft cargo could be doubled by storing aircraft in the hangar as well as on the flight deck.

The ships sent to the Royal Navy were slightly modified, partly to suit the traditions of that service. Among other things the ice cream making machines were removed, since they were considered unnecessary luxuries on ships which served grog and other alcoholic beverages. The heavy duty washing machines of the laundry room were also removed since "all a British sailor needs to keep clean is a bucket and a bar of soap" (quoted from Warrilow).

Other modifications were due to the need for a completely enclosed hangar when operating in the North Atlantic and in support of the Arctic convoys.

Meanwhile the US discovered their own use for the escort carriers. In the North Atlantic, they would supplement the escorting destroyers by providing air support for their anti-submarine warfare. One of these escort carriers, the USS Guadalcanal, was instrumental in the capture of the German submarine (U-boat) U-505 off North Africa in 1944. The Guadalcanal, and her task force, was commanded by Captain (later Admiral) Daniel V. Gallery. In 1955 the U-505 was moved to Chicago, restored, and made a permanent exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry.

In the Pacific theatre, the escort carriers would more than often escort the landing ships and troop carriers during the island hopping campaign. In this role, they would provide air cover for the troopships as well as fly the first wave of attacks on the beach fortifications in amphibious landing operations. On occasion they would even escort the large carriers, serving as emergency airstrips and providing fighter cover for their larger brothers while these were busy readying or refueling their own planes. In addition to this, they would also transport aircraft and spare parts from the US to the remote island airstrips.

Perhaps the finest moment for these escort carriers was the Battle of Leyte Gulf's Battle off Samar, where three escort carrier groups fended off the battleships of the Japanese Combined Fleet, allowing General Douglas MacArthur's Army to complete the liberation of Leyte. The hero of the battle was Rear Admiral Clifton "Ziggy" Sprague.

In all, 130 escort carriers were launched or converted during the war. Of these, six were British conversions of merchant ships: HMS Audacity, HMS Nairana, HMS Campania, HMS Activity, HMS Pretoria Castle and HMS Vindex. The remaining escort carriers were US-built. Like the British, the first US escort carriers were converted merchant vessels (or in the Sangamon class, converted military oilers). Later carriers were built using the hulls of Liberty Ships not yet finished but already in various stages of construction. The last 69 escort carriers of the Casablanca and Commencement Bay classes were purpose-designed and purpose-built carriers drawing on the experience gained with the previous classes.


I really don't see why, given VTOL aircraft, China could not develop a deep water CVE capability based on WW2 ideas and advanced to 21st Century technologies.


Posted by: FOTSGreg || 03/07/2007 17:40 Comments || Top||

#12  The Indian navy would be interested in Aegis radars (for their larger destroyers) to protect their carrier groups.

During the last exercise with the French, the Indian navy was quite concerned about UAVs successfully intruding into their battle group. Their Russian Kamov helicopter radar picket failed to detect the intrusions.

They would also need steam catapults for larger ships and aircraft.

Posted by: John Frum || 03/07/2007 17:43 Comments || Top||

#13  Since the late 1990's var Netters have argued that China had secretly studied both Amer [MIDWAY + FORRESTAL, NIMITZ?]+ Euro carrier designs and techs, espec the Brits, that Russian carrier designs were Top 5 or Top 10, NOT Top 1-3. AT the moment, and for a while yet, the PLAN's strategy is based on active-defense, littoral defense, and defensive area-sea denial. MCCONNELL > China is still desirous of being NOT ONLY A REGIONAL HEGEMON, BUT A GLOBAL HEGEMON SUPERIOR TO THE USA OR ANY OTHER NATION, which I believe I can safely surmise also is inclusive of the RUSSIANS. Bear in mind that where a de facto US-China NAVAL CLASH IN ASIA-WESTPAC IS CONCERNED, THE RUSSIAN NAVY IS BOTH SIDES' "WILD CARD". * KOREA TIMES > WHY RUSSIA FEELS FREE TO ATTACK THE USA [includ SSSSSHHHHHHH Allies]. RUSSIA'S PRESENT UTILITY
TO CHINA, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS AMERI'S FEAR OF RUSSIA'S ICBMS BEING USED AGZ USA-NATO-ALLIES WHILE IN MILITARY CONFLICT WID CHINA, I>E. TO CONTAIN, DENY, OR OTHERWISE MINIMIZE ANY US-SPECIFIC "FORCE PROJECTION" AGZ CHINA. INDIA for its part has a long way to go yet - WAFF.com > DEFENCETALK/JANES > India's Navy and Govt officios believe the IN's Carrier VIRAAT is HIGHLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO AIR AND ALCM/TLCM, etc. attacks. The good news for China vv INDIA's Carriers is that the PLAN's planes haven't begun to crash yet.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 20:39 Comments || Top||

#14  Amer must get weaker iff Russia andor China expect to achieve ROUGH PARITY + SUPERIORITY btwn Year 2030-2050, or after. WOT > WAR FOR THE WORLD, inclusive of dynamic SUBSTITUTION OF NATIONS/POWERS. CHINA > ambitions for Asia-Pacific hegemony and dominance is NOT based on America remaining a competitive, powerful, unipolar or even bi/multi-polar global superpower or hyperpower. EQUALISM + GEOPOL "FAIRNESS" > AMER BEING WEAK AND SUBSERVIENT, IFF NOT DESTROYED + NON-EXISTENT.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 20:46 Comments || Top||


Europe
Galileo GPS about as viable as the A380
It's a seductive idea: A heavenly travel guide capable of determining positions down to the meter, providing billions of euros in annual revenue and creating more than 100,000 jobs. And all that for the bargain price of €3.6 billion ($4.7 billion) -- the cost of 150 kilometers (93 miles) of urban highway.

Thirty European "Galileo" satellites were originally meant to be beaming their position signals down to Earth as early as 2008 -- thereby providing a serious alternative to US global positioning system (GPS) satellites. But today's reality looks different.

Galileo's new administrative director Pedro Pedreira will likely present a sobering report at the Munich Satellite Navigation Summit this week. Pedreira warns that Galileo will be going into operation in 2012 "at the earliest."
Inshallah
Unless the French workers remain on strike.
With that, fears that have been circulating in the satellite navigation business for months will be confirmed at the highest level. The prestigious European Union project is developing along the same skewed lines as the Airbus A380 before it -- crushed between a "me first" mentality and bickering national collaborators.
Posted by: mrp || 03/07/2007 08:37 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Inshallah, lol.
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/07/2007 10:43 Comments || Top||

#2  This is just as successful as any EUroweenie project (like diplomacy, military operations...)
Let the gloating begin!
Posted by: Spot || 03/07/2007 10:44 Comments || Top||

#3  IIRC, I was reading about the problems of every country wanting a piece of the action in Galileo a year ago in GPS World magazine. Also, some folks have figured out the access key, so rather than having to pay to use the system, it can be hacked, so to speak. There goes the revenue, heh.

The US military has bequeathed quite a gift to the world with GPS, but because of the hatred of the EU for the US, they are willing to spend huge sums on something for spite, basically. Airbus A380s, Galileo, Paleo aid, Egypt aid.....must be nice to have money to burn and nobody accountable for spending.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/07/2007 11:21 Comments || Top||

#4  Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Becoming more like the HRE every day.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 13:38 Comments || Top||

#5  AP,
What's really amusing here is that the PRC may very well have been hoping to piggyback themselves into Galileo so as to have their own GPS system witout having to cough up for it. And somewhere, the Chinese apparatchik who came up with the idea is having to do some serious explaining...

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 14:56 Comments || Top||

#6  Yes, Mike K.---The Chicom guy failed to realize that EU committees and consortia rarely converge to a solution and keep bickering, while Chicom committes come to a solution (Political power comes from the barrel of a gun, IIR my little red book Maoism).
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/07/2007 16:57 Comments || Top||

#7  But I thought it was about as viable as the EU search engine!
Posted by: DMFD || 03/07/2007 18:25 Comments || Top||

#8  NO surprise here, as the Euros realistically could afford only afford 10 or less [0<5?] of the satellites by 2008.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 22:43 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Spinning Libby's Conviction
WASHINGTON - Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's conviction capped a four-year, politically charged investigation but did not seal Libby's fate or resolve some of the lingering questions in the CIA leak case. Once the closest adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney, Libby was convicted Tuesday of lying and obstructing an investigation into the leak of a CIA operative's identity. He was the highest-ranking White House official convicted in a government scandal since the Iran-Contra arms and money affair two decades ago.

The trial revealed Cheney's eagerness to discredit a war critic, the Bush administration's policies on talking to reporters and its strategies for dealing with a crisis.
Wow. Revealed all those things, did it? A fine use of the taxpayer dollar.

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Bobby || 03/07/2007 08:36 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  White House official convicted in a government scandal since the Iran-Contra arms and money affair two decades ago.

That is if you exclude Clinton's impeachment....

"It's sad that we had a situation where a high-level official person who worked in the office of the vice president obstructed justice and lied under oath.

But it was ok when Clinton did it right?

"We cannot tolerate perjury. Truth is what drives our judicial system. If people don't tell the truth, the system cannot work," Fitzgerald said outside court Tuesday. "Having a high-level official lie under oath is just something that can never be accepted." unless its a democrat.

There... fixed that for ya...



Posted by: CrazyFool || 03/07/2007 9:02 Comments || Top||

#2  Don't pardon Libby? This from the party touting the merits and accomplishments of the man who pardoned Marc Rich. I guess the pardons should remain available for you Sen. Reid - to be used should any of your real estate transactions come in for closer scrutiny.
Posted by: doc || 03/07/2007 10:17 Comments || Top||

#3  IMO, this a case of another high-ranking government official convicted of lying to authorities, perjury to a federal grand jury, and obstruction of justice during an ongoing criminal investigation. Pending his entitled appeal, I say throw the book at this crook!
Posted by: DepotGuy || 03/07/2007 10:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Did Libby make his lies/comments/mistake in testimony before or after Fitzgerald found out Armitage was the leaker?

If it was before than he should still serve time. Telling falsehoods under oath is a bad and we shouldn't set precidents even if the person is a President (who lied but did not serve any time).

If it was after, Libby should go free and Fitzgerald should lose his licence and be held accountable for the cost of the trial.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 11:30 Comments || Top||

#5  Except, DepotGuy, there's NO underlying crime committed to need an investigation for. Even if everything shook out the way it's said it did, she was still not a covert (or whatever the appropriate legal term is) agent within 5 years of the supposed "outing." End of discussion.

Listen, it'd be like saying Joe Blow the janitor was a CIA "agent." Sure, he works there, but was he covert? Nope. Next story.
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 11:36 Comments || Top||

#6  For Libby's statements to be criminal - either obstruction or perjury - he had to know he was telling a lie, rather than unknowingly misremember something. Virtually all the other witnesses also either lied or misremembered, but in their testimony the inconsistencies were held to be misrememberances. For me to be confident Libby actually lied I would need to have some kind of motive, which was never (as far as I know) presented: since there was no underlying crime, what would the motive be to lie about it?
On the other hand, he's a politician, so no doubt he's lied about something, if not this, so his conviction is no great injustice.
Posted by: Glenmore || 03/07/2007 11:57 Comments || Top||

#7  What this tale tells us is never, never, never talk to any Federal agent about anything without a lawyer sitting next to you. And even then, a bad memory is the best defense as long as you state it up front: "I don't really remember, but...", "I can't be sure, but.." , "I have no knowledge of those events, sorry.." "Sorry, I talk to so many people they all blur together.", "I'm terrible with names, who was that again?", etc.
Posted by: Steve || 03/07/2007 12:02 Comments || Top||

#8  “…there's NO underlying crime committed to need an investigation for.”

BA, investigations are to determine if there has been a crime committed. As you have correctly pointed out…there wasn’t any. That’s fair criticism of an overzealous prosecutor but in no way (legally or ethically) excuse someone that is testifying under oath to lie to authorities or commit perjury. With all due respect, your argument is the same bullshit the Clinton apologists spewed.
Posted by: DepotGuy || 03/07/2007 12:09 Comments || Top||

#9  Depotguy, it is my understanding that Fitz knew who and when the leak occured BEFORE he ever talked to Libby. Based on that information Fitz should have determined that crime had not been commmitted and stop his investigation. But he went off on a fishing expedition in hopes of finding a crime somewhere (anywhere). Why would Libby intentially lie to cover up a crime that never happened? My 2 cents.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 03/07/2007 12:51 Comments || Top||

#10  Cyber Sarge beat me to it. Listen, I'm not advocating lying to the Feds at all. But, if the "lie" is NOT intentional (e.g. "I think it was Tim Russert" but later it's found out it wasn't), then it's NOT criminal.

Billy Jeff's lie under oath, I would assume, would be INTENTIONALLY made. That's a fine line, and, I know, sounds like Lawyering 101. But, Sarge's point remains too.
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 13:14 Comments || Top||

#11  "But he went off on a fishing expedition in hopes of finding a crime somewhere (anywhere)."

As die-hard fisherman like to say…“I might not snag the big one but I’m gonna catch something…Dammit!” It appears Libby was boated legally and it was Fitzgeralds choice to throw him back or put him on the stringer. Of course, respectable anglers don’t keep carp that get tangled in their landing net. But seeing as how I equate lying government officials with scum-sucking bottom feeders…I say...mount the sucker!
Posted by: DepotGuy || 03/07/2007 13:28 Comments || Top||

#12  Amen BA and it was clear from the Jury questions (and post interviews) that they had no idea what the trail was supposed to be about. Along the angler lines I would state that if I fishing for salmon and snagged one (instead of hooked legally) I have on at least two occasions set it free.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 03/07/2007 13:46 Comments || Top||

#13  Remember that the judge withheld information from the jury -- so that they would not be aware that Fitzgerald knew all along that no crime had been committed.

A total perversion of justice.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 03/07/2007 14:58 Comments || Top||

#14  Cyber Sarge, what is the difference between snagged and hooked legally?
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 15:00 Comments || Top||

#15  Snagged = on the body
Hooked = in the mouth

By Law you can only keep salmon that are hooked in the mouth. When the salmon are running it is quite easy to snag on with a hook.

Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 03/07/2007 15:14 Comments || Top||

#16  "Dear Patrick Fitzgerald,

Following your brilliant "work" in convicting I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby of high crimes and misdemeanors, we, the U.S. Justice Department, feel we can no longer hold you back from an outstanding career as a civilian criminal lawyer. We feel that it is best that you begin your new career immediately.

Thank you very much for all you've done,

Sincerely,


Alberto Gonzales,
US Attorney General"
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/07/2007 16:22 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
India, Japan to hold naval exercises soon
India and Japan, by holding joint military exercises, will raise their strategic partnership to a higher level.

"It will be a very large exercise," said Japan's Ambassador to India Yasukuni Enoki in an interview with Indian leading English daily `Asian Age'.

India and Japan have held joint coast guard maritime search and rescue and anti-piracy exercises since 2000, but this is the first time their navies will participate in a joint exercise.

The envoy did not specify how soon the exercises would be held, but he hinted that the US could take part in the exercises. The US participation is expected to give a push to the nascent India-Japan-US trilateral cooperation.

"Asia is huge enough to allow every variety of dialogue mechanism," he insisted. According to certain reports appearing in the Japanese media, the India-Japan-US joint military exercises could be held as early as April.

"Maritime security of the Indian Ocean and security of the line of communication, particularly with oil...crude oil transport, is very much in the area of common interest od Asian countries," Enoki said Monday.

"It is quite new, for example, to hold friendship joint exercises between Japanese vital defence vessels on their way back from the Arabian Sea. As you know, Japan is now deploying some vessels for logistical purposes in other countries such as the US and the UK for their peacekeeping operations in Afghanistan," he said in response to a question on the India-Japan maritime cooperation.

He explained that there was ample scope for India and Japan to collaborate in security of sea lanes.

"Japan is still under constitutional constraint, there is very clear limit for Japan to exercise, to play a meaningful military role in this region. But there is ample room even under this
constitutional constraint for both India and Japan to work together," the envoy said.

India and Japan, he added, could also play a "a big role" together during tsunami and other natural disasters.
Posted by: John Frum || 03/07/2007 17:14 || Comments || Link || [13 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "It will be a very large exercise,"

No too large, I hope
Posted by: Who Gin Now || 03/07/2007 20:29 Comments || Top||

#2  See also TAIPEITIMES > JAPAN TO INCREASE SURVEILLIANCE OF CHINA - Japan plans to build new island-based ECM System.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 23:55 Comments || Top||


Multinational naval exercises begin in Karachi
KARACHI: Warships from countries including China and Britain, along with host Pakistan, began a naval exercise on Tuesday designed to strengthen cooperation against maritime terrorism, said the Pakistan Navy. A total of 27 countries, including the US and Iran, are participating in the weeklong “Aman 07” exercise centred on Karachi – the home of Pakistan’s navy.

In an initial “harbour phase”, naval officials would attend conferences and exchange information on the capabilities of their forces, said navy spokesman Lt Cmdr Salman Ali, adding that exercises at sea would begin on Thursday. Britain, France, China, Malaysia and Bangladesh have already sent ships to Karachi for the war games.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [9 views] Top|| File under:


Pak Airline Flights to Europe Cancelled
And no, you can't catch a later flight.
KARACHI — PIA has cancelled 14 flights to Europe over the next three weeks after the European Union imposed a safety ban on most of its fleet, PIA officials said yesterday.

Passengers for destinations including London, Manchester and Rome will be accommodated on other services, a senior official said. The PIA official said the flights have been cancelled up to March 26 after which the airline may try to lease more planes or take other measures.

It follows the European Union’s decision to allow only the airline’s eight Boeing 777 planes to fly to Europe.
Guess the PIA better hurry up on that Airbus order.
Civil aviation sources said they plan to further enhance safety measures in coming weeks.
They might get the PIA up to Air Ukraine standards by 2011.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  al-Reuters, Airwise News, February 26, 2007

The state-run airline was warned last year that most of its planes failed to meet international standards, and on Friday an EU source revealed that all but seven of PIA's 42 planes would be barred from landing in the EU.

PIA officials, who participated in meetings with EU experts, said the airline had expected its Airbus A310 and Boeing 747-300 aircraft to have escaped the ban, and the decisions had come as a shock.

A PIA aircraft safety official said that, after Brussels put PIA on a watchlist in 2006, the airline had hired a British-based company to refurbish the interior and exterior of planes after consultations with EU officials.

The PIA fleet that would be affected if a ban is imposed includes six Boeing 747-300s, two Boeing 747-200s, seven Boeing 737-300s, one Boeing 727-200, 12 Airbus A310-300s, two Airbus A321s, one Airbus A310 and three ATR-50s. It also has one cargo aircraft.

Last year, the Commission banned nearly 100 airlines from operating in the bloc, targeting mostly African carriers after a spate of fatal crashes involving European passengers.

Perv was unavailable for comment but his Chief Flight Engineer, Mullah Dadullah said, "fugitaboutit!"
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 1:38 Comments || Top||

#2  The EU also banned nine Russian airlines from travel to EU states for safety reasons.
Posted by: Mizzou Mafia || 03/07/2007 1:56 Comments || Top||


Benazir to visit US this month
Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) Chairwoman Benazir Bhutto will visit the United States in the middle of this month. Sources told Online that Ms Bhutto would remain in the US for about two weeks. During her stay in the US, she will address ceremonies in connection with Pakistan Day and attend a function in Brookline on March 18, the sources added.
Posted by: Fred || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [9 views] Top|| File under:


Science & Technology
Web sites must keep records of who uploads photographs or videos
The Bush administration has accelerated its Internet surveillance push by proposing that Web sites must keep records of who uploads photographs or videos in case police determine the content is illegal and choose to investigate, CNET News.com has learned.

That proposal surfaced Wednesday in a private meeting during which U.S. Department of Justice officials, including Assistant Attorney General Rachel Brand, tried to convince industry representatives such as AOL and Comcast that data retention would be valuable in investigating terrorism, child pornography and other crimes. The discussions were described to News.com by several people who attended the meeting.

A second purpose of the meeting in Washington, D.C., according to the sources, was to ask Internet service providers how much it would cost to record details on their subscribers for two years. At the very least, the companies would be required to keep logs for police of which customer is assigned a specific Internet address.

Only universities and libraries would be excluded, one participant said. "There's a PR concern with including the libraries, so we're not going to include them," the participant quoted the Justice Department as saying. "We know we're going to get a pushback, so we're not going to do that."

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has been lobbying Congress for mandatory data retention, calling it a "national problem that requires federal legislation." Gonzales has convened earlier private meetings to pressure industry representatives. And last month, Republicans introduced a mandatory data retention bill in the U.S. House of Representatives that would let the attorney general dictate what must be stored and for how long.

Supporters of the data retention proposal say it's necessary to help track criminals if police don't immediately discover illegal activity, such as child abuse. Industry representatives respond by saying major Internet providers have a strong track record of responding to subpoenas from law enforcement.

Wednesday's meeting represents the latest effort by the Bush administration to increase the ability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies to monitor Internet users. Since 2001, the administration has repeatedly pushed for more surveillance capabilities in the form of the Patriot Act and a follow-up proposal that--if it had been enacted--would have given the FBI online eavesdropping powers without a court order for up to 48 hours.

Often invoking terrorism and child pornography as justifications, the administration has argued that Internet providers must install backdoors for surveillance and has called for routers to be redesigned for easier eavesdropping. President Bush's electronic surveillance program, which was recently modified, has drawn an avalanche of lawsuits.

The Justice Department's request for information about compliance costs echoes a decade-ago debate over wiretapping digital telephones, which led to the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. To reduce opposition by telephone companies, Congress set aside $500 million for reimbursement and the legislation easily cleared both chambers by voice votes.

Once Internet providers come up with specific figures, privacy advocates worry, Congress will offer to write a generous check to cover all compliance costs and the process will repeat itself.

The Justice Department did not respond to a request for comment on Thursday. The U.S. Internet Service Provider Association, which has been critical of data retention proposals before, declined to comment.

Because the Justice Department did not circulate a written proposal at the private meeting, it's difficult to gauge the effects on Web sites that would be forced to record information on image uploads for two years. Meeting participants said that Justice officials (including Brand, the assistant attorney general for legal policy and a former White House attorney) did not answer questions about anonymously posted content and whether text comments on a blog would qualify for retention...
Next up, a new law that mandates that photo copies of the Internet be provided to the government.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 16:01 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Dumbest idea I've heard in a LONG time. And what about fauxtography?>Is a fauxtograph the same as a photograph?+Who's responsible for the Photoshop?
=
HOW WILL WE PROTECT THE CHILDREN????
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 03/07/2007 16:16 Comments || Top||

#2 
All in preparation for the day, soon to come, when everything is illegal.
Posted by: Master of Obvious || 03/07/2007 16:16 Comments || Top||

#3  uploads photographs or videos in case police determine the content is illegal and choose to investigate In other words, the 5th ammendment and the 4th ammendment no longer apply.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 03/07/2007 16:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Hey, I'm absolutely positively .100% sure it will only be used to bust pedophiles.
Posted by: gorb || 03/07/2007 16:38 Comments || Top||

#5  In response, I'm uploaded pictures of the Justice department banging donkeys.
Posted by: DarthVader || 03/07/2007 17:16 Comments || Top||

#6  too hbell with the justice dept, i'm more worried about my wife finding the porn
Posted by: sinse || 03/07/2007 17:45 Comments || Top||

#7  No more surfing certain sites for me...(Hey! Get your mind outta' the gutter; I was thinkin' about the "conservative" sites which will no doubt be labelled as "porn" by certain portions of the government).

(And I have never, ever, visited a porn site - and I have a bridge to sell you (being single, unattached, and not dead in my lower extremities (not to mention extremely fond of the female body))).

:-)


Posted by: FOTSGreg || 03/07/2007 18:10 Comments || Top||

#8  .com went underground just in time!
Posted by: Frank G || 03/07/2007 18:17 Comments || Top||

#9  Sounds like an excellent business opportunity - I don't guess that mini-island in the English Channel is still available, but some cash-poor government somewhere would have to be desirous of being the host country for half the world's internet addresses in exchange for not cooperating with the US (or France) on internet control. (Look what Liberia and Panama have done for the shipping industry!)
Posted by: Glenmore || 03/07/2007 18:20 Comments || Top||


Piece of Earth's Crust Missing
Snip. Duplicate.
Posted by: Bobby || 03/07/2007 08:28 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm thinking...hellgate.
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 8:40 Comments || Top||

#2  ...I blame Bush. Or the Haliburton Terrestrial Reformatting Division, whichever sounds better.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 8:49 Comments || Top||

#3  I have been to Rlyeh. There is some good fishing to be had but make sure it ain't talking before you put it in the pan.
Posted by: Excalibur || 03/07/2007 9:04 Comments || Top||

#4  I was feeling peckish , no-one usually eats the crusts anyway , thought noone would notice .
sorry !
/burp
Posted by: MacNails || 03/07/2007 11:35 Comments || Top||

#5  First time I ever heard that the upper mantle was "dark green", I guess I missed that part while watching 'The Core'.
Posted by: smn || 03/07/2007 11:36 Comments || Top||

#6  #5 you're right according to Whoreywood it's supposed to be clear!
Posted by: Almost Anonymous5839 || 03/07/2007 11:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Or the Haliburton Terrestrial Reformatting Division, whichever sounds better.

That's the Terrestrial Terraforming Branch, Mike. And we don't talk about them. Ever.
Posted by: Steve || 03/07/2007 12:10 Comments || Top||

#8  So.... What sort of gems are to be found in this green mantle stone?

Enquirying Minds Need to Know..
Posted by: 3dc || 03/07/2007 13:39 Comments || Top||

#9  So that's what happened to Atlantis?
Posted by: GK || 03/07/2007 18:12 Comments || Top||

#10  Has anyone checked Sandy Berger's socks?
Posted by: DMFD || 03/07/2007 18:26 Comments || Top||

#11  D *** ng it - Ya see what happens, Moriarty, when you tell space-and time-travel tourists its okay to take mementos/souvenirs of their trip! Now look whats happened!?
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/07/2007 20:49 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Indonesian Airliner Crashes; Australian Diplomats on Board
I post this in Non-WOT but that could change as details emerge.
At least 76 of the 140 people on the Garuda jet that crashed have been taken to hospital - but up to 54 are feared dead. It is still unclear how many of the Australians aboard the crashed Garuda jet were hurt. Many of them were Mr Downer's staff - diplomats from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - with their Indonesian counterparts plus Australian police and journalists.

The Garuda passenger jet, GA-200, had left Jakarta at 6am local time for Yogjakarta, in the central province of Java. Survivors said there were up to three bangs then it burst into flames just before it landed at Yogjakarta. Some of the 140 people on board escaped the burning aircraft - a Boeing 737-200 - but more were trapped inside. Witnesses say only the tail fin was left undamaged.

There were at least five members of the Australian media on board the plane, which was transporting journalists and officials from the Australian Federal Police and Department of Foreign Affairs and Tourism ahead of a visit by Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. Most of those on board were diplomatic staff from both Canberra and Jakarta, who were part of a trip flying in advance of Mr Downer's mission to Indonesia. There were also RAAF representatives. Mr Downer had been scheduled to visit the central Javanese province for a series of meetings - including one with the Muhammadiyah, the region's largest Muslim organisation, and with the Sultan of Yogjakarta. Treasurer Peter Costello said Mr Downer was not involved.

"The plane is burnt. The fire came suddenly from the front wheel,'' one witness, Hariman, said on ElShinta radio. One passenger who survived told local TV station RCTI TV that "before landing I felt the plane shake strongly''.

"We overshot the runway, then I heard the sound of an explosion and ran through an emergency exit,'' continued passenger Muhammad Dimyati. Another, local Islamic leader Dien Syamsudin, told how he jumped to safety. "Before the plane landed it was shaking. Suddenly there was smoke inside the fuselage, it hit the runway and then it landed in a rice field," he said. "It caught alight when it landed,'' he said giving no more details.
There seems to have been a problem before the plane landed - perhaps the pilot realized he was coming in long and tried to throttle up and go around again and blew the engines. Or perhaps a bomb or missile was the problem. This flight would certainly have been a prime target.
As matt Drudge would say, Developing...
Posted by: Glenmore || 03/07/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I wouldn't discount terrorism either. It sounds like there was an explosion onboard before the plane crashed.
Posted by: phil_b || 03/07/2007 0:32 Comments || Top||

#2  It seems unlikely to me that a 737 would have problems like this - they're the most reliable aircraft in the sky.
Posted by: gromky || 03/07/2007 4:24 Comments || Top||

#3  They're the most reliable if maintained by a western country. Islamic murder or Islamic incompetence?
Posted by: Jackal || 03/07/2007 6:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Doesn't matter, Jackal. Allan's in control either way.
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 8:51 Comments || Top||

#5  The shaking before the plane landed sounds like a stall. The combination of a near-stall and a too-fast landing suggests the possibility that the flaps were not properly set. The smoke and fire from the front wheel could be from excessive braking due to the high speed landing.
Posted by: Biff Wellington || 03/07/2007 11:37 Comments || Top||

#6  Planes, trains, ferries, buses.... Doesn't seem to matter what form of transport is chosen in Inshallah land. ISO be damned. Let our employees boink their heads on the floor five times a day and pray.
Posted by: Thinemp Whimble2412 || 03/07/2007 16:42 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Captain America Assassinated
Captain America is dead.

The Marvel Entertainment superhero, created in 1941 as a patriotic adversary for the Nazis, is killed off in Captain America #25, which hits the stands Wednesday.

As Captain America emerges from a courthouse building, he is struck by a sniper's bullet in the shoulder and then hit again in the stomach, blood seeping out of his star-spangled costume.

His death is sure to ignite controversy in the comic book world - still reeling from Superman's death in 1993 and resurrection the following year - and even political pundits, who may see Captain America's demise as an allegory for the United States.

"It's a hell of a time for him to go. We really need him now," said co-creator Joe Simon, 93, after being informed of his brainchild's death.

Simon and artist Jack Kirby came up with the character in 1941 as an adversary for Adolf Hitler. Since then, the patriotic hero has appeared in an estimated 210 million copies sold in 75 countries.

Not bad for an imaginary sickly kid from New York's Lower East Side named Steve Rogers, who volunteered to be injected with Super Soldier serum during World War II.

Part of Captain America's allure was that he had no true superpowers; the serum made him an example of a human being at his utmost potential.

He could bench-press 1,100 pounds, run a mile in about a minute and outsmart any spy.

Series writer Ed Brubaker - who grew up reading Captain America comics while his father, a naval intelligence officer, was stationed on Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - said it wasn't easy to kill off the character. The 40-year-old, however, wanted to explore what the hero meant to the country in these polarized times.

"What I found is that all the really hard-core left-wing fans want Cap to be standing out on and giving speeches on the street corner against the Bush administration, and all the really right-wing (fans) all want him to be over in the streets of Baghdad, punching out Saddam," Brubaker said.

Comic book deaths, however, are rarely final. Marvel's archrival, DC Comics, provoked a media frenzy when they killed off Superman in 1993, only to reanimate their prize creation a year later.

Joe Quesada, 43, Marvel Entertainment's editor in chief, said he wouldn't rule out the shield-throwing champion's eventual return. But for now, the Captain's fans are in mourning.

"I was shocked. I was not expecting it," said Gerry Gladston, co-owner of Midtown Comics in Manhattan. "I'd rather they didn't kill him - but it's going to mean great sales."
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 10:16 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  No...

The only god thing here is that in comic books, Death isn't forever.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 11:15 Comments || Top||

#2  He should have retired...then went consulting....
Posted by: crazyhorse || 03/07/2007 11:18 Comments || Top||

#3  Actually I heard he faked his death and now works as a contractor for Halliburton's Earthquake divsion.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 11:37 Comments || Top||

#4  The all time great superhero for getting killed and being brought back to life is Jean Grey, from the X-Men, aka "Wonder Girl" and "Phoenix". Here is a funny flash cartoon on the subject. (There are a bunch on the same subject by the same animator at the site.)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810

Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 13:35 Comments || Top||

#5  I think you mean Marvel Girl -- Wonder Girl is one of DC's New Teen Titans.
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 03/07/2007 14:03 Comments || Top||

#6  Marvel girl it is, back in the olden X-men.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 03/07/2007 14:22 Comments || Top||

#7  Excellent flash animations, I'm having quite a laugh over there, hé hé.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 03/07/2007 14:43 Comments || Top||

#8  too bad about Captain America.

The funniest line I heard about Jean Grey was from the 'revolution' series where Wolverine was chewing out The White Queen for her position: "Jean would be rolling in her grave, providin' you could keep her in it longer'n a week."
Posted by: Ptah || 03/07/2007 14:59 Comments || Top||

#9 
His death is sure to ignite controversy in the comic book world - still reeling from Superman's death in 1993 and resurrection the following year - and even political pundits, who may see Captain America's demise as an allegory for the United States.


yeah: Our Creator will be the only one capable of taking us out.

Series writer Ed Brubaker - who grew up reading Captain America comics while his father, a naval intelligence officer, was stationed on Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - said it wasn't easy to kill off the character. The 40-year-old, however, wanted to explore what the hero meant to the country in these polarized times.

...and the world will be left to explore what it means to be without the United States.
Posted by: Ptah || 03/07/2007 15:01 Comments || Top||

#10  Ptah,

Myself, I think that Cap will be back, it just won't be Steve Rogers. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet the rent check that the new Cap will be a female, a minority, or both.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 03/07/2007 17:48 Comments || Top||

#11  "Steve turned around and Bobby Ewing opened the shower door. It was all a bad dream"
Posted by: Frank G || 03/07/2007 18:00 Comments || Top||

#12  Article: Series writer Ed Brubaker - who grew up reading Captain America comics while his father, a naval intelligence officer, was stationed on Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - said it wasn't easy to kill off the character. The 40-year-old, however, wanted to explore what the hero meant to the country in these polarized times.

I love how these guys have a million ways of saying "I'm looking to boost my sales by making remarks that sound vaguely topical, while appealing to the nostalgic feelings of the masses, who had forgotten my product exists."
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 03/07/2007 19:28 Comments || Top||

#13  Mike: I wonder if they will finally re-invent the super soldier formula that made Cap in the first place? The best bet would be that they were able to extract it from his blood, post-mortem. That way, it could still be an unknown formula.

The hardest part will be how they handle finding a super patriot to inject it into.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/07/2007 21:20 Comments || Top||

#14  Well, after the Thing was retconned to be Jewish, they had to do something new.
Posted by: Eric Jablow || 03/07/2007 22:05 Comments || Top||


Drudge: PETA TO AL GORE: YOU CAN’T BE A MEAT-EATING ENVIRONMENTALIST
I doubt this link will last long, so here's the text!

PETA TO AL GORE: YOU CAN’T BE A MEAT-EATING ENVIRONMENTALIST
Tue Mar 06 2007 17:08:05 ET

The Most ‘Inconvenient Truth’: According to U.N., Animals Raised for Food Generate More Greenhouse Gases Than All Cars and Trucks Combined

Norfolk, Va. — This morning, PETA sent a letter to former vice president Al Gore explaining to him that the best way to fight global warming is to go vegetarian and offering to cook him faux “fried chicken” as an introduction to meat-free meals. In its letter, PETA points out that Gore’s film, An Inconvenient Truth—which starkly outlines the potentially catastrophic effects of global warming and just won the Academy Award for “Best Documentary”—has failed to address the fact that the meat industry is the largest contributor to greenhouse-gas emissions.

In the letter, PETA points out the following:

. The effect that our meat addiction is having on the climate is truly staggering. In fact, in its recent report “Livestock’s Long Shadow—Environmental Issues and Options,” the United Nations determined that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars and trucks in the world combined.
Heck, kick the food addiction and solve everything!
. Researchers at the University of Chicago have determined that switching to a vegan diet is more effective in countering global warming than switching from a standard American car to a Toyota Prius.
Horse$hit! The cows will run rampant, farting at will if someone doesn't eat them!
PETA also reminds Gore that his critics love to question whether he practices what he preaches and suggests that by going vegetarian, he could cut down on his contribution to global warming and silence his critics at the same time.
The critics are raising rhetorical questions. No need to answer because we all know what it will be.
“The single best thing that any of us can do to for our health, for animals, and for the environment is to go vegetarian,” says PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk. “The best and easiest way for Mr. Gore to show his critics that he’s truly committed to fighting global warming is to kick his meat habit immediately.”
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?

Is it just me, or does all this sort of seems like the pot calling the kettle black? :-)
Posted by: gorb || 03/07/2007 02:06 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  THE LUNE PLATOON
Posted by: ARMYGUY || 03/07/2007 7:14 Comments || Top||

#2  If the report is even somewhat true, then it's the livestock causing all the greenhouse gases.

If we do not eat the livestock, then they will be overpopulated and caused even more greenhouse gases.

PETA is a joke.
Posted by: Jesing Ebbease3087 || 03/07/2007 7:14 Comments || Top||

#3  What did you expect from the neo-puritan movement?

Enjoying Smoking- BANNED
Enjoying Drinking - Next To be banned.
Enjoying Eating - To be eliminated.
Enjoying Life - To be controlled.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles in Blairistan || 03/07/2007 7:26 Comments || Top||

#4  “The best and easiest way for Mr. Gore to show his critics that he’s truly committed to fighting global warming is to kick his meat habit immediately.”

Well, at least Al could lose some weight then, lol! Of course, it reminds me of an overweight co-worker I have that's vegetarian (he's Indian). One of our other co-workers got fed up with his "holier than thou" veggie attitude and told him, "Shut up! You're the fattest vegetarian I know!"
Posted by: BA || 03/07/2007 9:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Damn. Moral dilemma. Who do I root for here?
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/07/2007 9:53 Comments || Top||

#6  I gotta have my bacon and eggs!!! And hamburgers!!! And Beef Wellington (drool, pant, slurp)! And hot dogs...and...and
Posted by: Big Al || 03/07/2007 10:20 Comments || Top||

#7  Pogo comic strip, some years ago, had a thread running for a while on pollution. Well, the denizens of the swamp decided that there was too much CO2 pollution, so they started a campaign for non-breathing. May I suggest the same for all the above characters in the article, heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/07/2007 11:27 Comments || Top||

#8  Law of conservation of methane production? After all, the meat animals produce methane as a side effect of digesting plant material. Those who go directly to the source will surely produce waste methane from their own digestive processes.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/07/2007 12:41 Comments || Top||

#9  I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning.
Posted by: xbalanke || 03/07/2007 13:03 Comments || Top||

#10  *i had another steak last night.
Posted by: RD || 03/07/2007 13:28 Comments || Top||

#11  You can't factor in bovine farts without considering what a change in diet would do with human methane production.

I find it hard to believe that all the cows in the world eating grass could compete with the humans if we shifted over to beans and cabbage.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 03/07/2007 14:53 Comments || Top||

#12  The greatest greenhouse gas is water vapor, making up 95% of the total. All this talk about CO2 (4%), methane (>1%) and all others (>1%) is a crock. The oceans account for 80% of all water vapor (the rest comes from rivers, streams, snowcover, vegetation, etc.), and about 75% of all CO2 released. Peta is just being their normal arrogant, overbearing, and wrong, self-serving twits.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/07/2007 16:16 Comments || Top||

#13  Pull my hoof.......;->
Posted by: Lionel Omeretch6569 || 03/07/2007 16:17 Comments || Top||

#14  Cows cause global warming? But, but.... cows are vegetarians. So it's vegetarians that produce methane. Vegetarians cause global warning.

We better eat all the vegetarians.
Posted by: Thinemp Whimble2412 || 03/07/2007 16:29 Comments || Top||

#15  So, OP, if we go onto the hydrogen economy, we're doomed, right? Burn hydrogen and oxygen and you get dihyrogen monoxide. The worst greenhouse gas of the lot. We're doomed---doomed, I tell ya™!
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/07/2007 17:01 Comments || Top||

#16  Ages ago there used to be a sect/cult/buncholooneys that claimed to eat nothing but air.

I'm not certain if they still exist...

Posted by: FOTSGreg || 03/07/2007 17:32 Comments || Top||

#17  Thinemp Whimble2412, cows are definitely tasty, but not so sure about bipedal vegetarians. How about supplying them to zoos to feed their carnivore exhibits?
Posted by: twobyfour || 03/07/2007 18:14 Comments || Top||

#18  Works for me twobyfour, except for the Bhuddists. Never order Chinese, those people are all gristle. Even Komodos won't eat 'em.
Posted by: Thinemp Whimble2412 || 03/07/2007 18:20 Comments || Top||

#19 
Posted by: DMFD || 03/07/2007 18:37 Comments || Top||

#20  "We better eat all the vegetarians."

I eat vegetarian any chance I get.

Cattle, deer, sheep, elk.........

All vegetarians.
Posted by: no mo uro || 03/07/2007 20:06 Comments || Top||

#21  tw, you are correct. Better stock up on Beano.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 03/07/2007 20:37 Comments || Top||

#22  :-) But rjschwarz said it more pungently.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/07/2007 22:33 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Wed 2007-03-07
  Split in Hamas? 2 Hamas officials move to Syria
Tue 2007-03-06
  CIA Rushing Resources to Bin Laden Hunt
Mon 2007-03-05
  Iraqis say they have Abu Omar al-Baghdadi
Sun 2007-03-04
  US and Pakistani agents interrogate Taliban leader
Sat 2007-03-03
  Chechen parliament approves Kadyrov as president
Fri 2007-03-02
  Dozens of al-Qaeda killed in Anbar
Thu 2007-03-01
  Judge rules Padilla competent for trial
Wed 2007-02-28
  Somali police arrest four ship hijackers
Tue 2007-02-27
  Taliboomer tries for Cheney
Mon 2007-02-26
  3 French nationals murdered in Soddy ministry
Sun 2007-02-25
  Boomer tries for Abdul Aziz al-Hakim
Sat 2007-02-24
  3 Pak bad boyz dead when their package blows up
Fri 2007-02-23
  U.S. bangs five bad boyz in Iraq gunfight
Thu 2007-02-22
  Another poison gas attack in Iraq
Wed 2007-02-21
  Brits to begin withdrawing troops


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