Prime Minister Khaleda Zia Wednesday apparently declared a mass resistance against militants as she asked people to capture those involved in bomb-terrorism in the name of Islam, saying that her government has already banned these outfits. âYou know who they are. They have to be caught. There is no room for terrorism in Islam,â Khaleda told her audience at a big public meeting at Daulatpur Math here, barely two days after she addressed the nation when she expressed her governmentâs iron will to extirpate the new syndrome of âbomb-terrorismâ.
âThey are using Islam insidiouslyâthey are enemy of Islam, the country and people,â the PM said, adding that the government has taken step to stall such terrorist acts. She gave those who have gone astray a last chance to come back onto right path as she said crime does not pay. Development and progress of the country cannot come through terrorism.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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IN A NEW REPORT bishops of the Church of England have urged Western Christians to apologize for the Iraq War as an "act of truth and reconciliation." The committee of bishops, chaired by the bishop of Oxford, Richard Harries, also linked U.S. "imperialism" to the influence of U.S. evangelicals, who seemingly pose the real threat to world peace: "No country should see itself as the redeemer nation, singled out by God as part of his providential plan," the bishops warned America, which is ostensibly consumed with religious zeal for conquest.
That liberal British bishops do not like U.S. foreign policy and its reliance on "brute power and fear" is fairly predictable. But their efforts to connect U.S. military actions to the alleged "end-times" theology and the influence of U.S. evangelicals is somewhat of a new twist.
"Countering Terrorism: Power, Violence and Democracy Post-9/11" was written by a working group of five bishops at the request of the Church of England's House of Bishops. It offers apologies for the U.S.-British removal of Saddam Hussein, condemns American "moral righteousness" (while urging greater reliance upon the United Nations as the "legitimate authority for military intervention"), and faults the West for not making more "compelling" arguments against Iran's nuclear weapons program.
Bishop Harries was joined by the bishops of bishops of Coventry, Worcester, Bath, and Wells. These prelates preside over ancient dioceses that, in all likelihood, are full of empty churches. (By some counts, Britain has more mosque-going Muslims than church-going Anglicans.)
But, as we have seen
in liberal mainline churches in America, the lack of a flock does not deter political outspokenness. In fact, the opposite seems to be case. Perhaps a lack of liturgical duties allows time for more "prophetic" denunciations.
Unlike the British bishops, U.S. evangelicals actually do represent millions of believers. But this greatly alarms the bishops, because evangelical influence is fanning the flames of U. S. "imperialism." Indeed, a "narrow" and "pre-Enlightenment" form of evangelicalism may explain the Bush administration's "intransigence" on issues from same-sex marriage to support for Israel, the bishops explain. This "fundamentalist" Christianity is now pushing for American "hegemony" around the world, the report surmises--without really offering substantive evidence.
According to the bishops, the "apocalyptic fantasies" of American evangelicals are fueling an "unquestioning acceptance of violence in the name of God" and support for "unbridled American power." The 100-page report lumps together all of the most dreaded bugaboos of European leftists: the Bush administration, evangelical Christians, and U.S. economic and military power. American expansionism, not Islamist terrorism, is portrayed as "the major threat to peace."
According to the bishops, U.S. imperialism is different from other empires because of its "strong sense of moral righteousness," which is a "dangerous illusion," and which is fed by the "major influence of the 'Christian Right' on present U.S. policy."
Likewise, the bishops are careful to point out that Western democracy is "deeply flawed." Meanwhile, the Iranian theocracy may not be as nasty as popularly portrayed. The bishops chirpily suggest that Tehran might forgo its nuclear weapons program if the West offered a "suitably attractive incentive package" and more "security assurances." In fact, "the public and political rhetoric that Iran is a rogue regime, an outpost of tyranny, is as fallacious as the Iranian description of the U.S. as the Great Satan."
At least the bishops do grant that America is not the Great Satan. It is a rare moment of generosity. Another such moment occurs when the bishops condemn the "crusade" approach of "right-wing Christian rhetoric in the United States" while also admitting this problem has been present in "some Muslim attitudes to war," too.
In fairness, the report takes an occasional break from loopiness. It rejects complete pacifism, admits that immediate withdrawal from Iraq would be "irresponsible," acknowledges that the war did end Saddam Hussein's "tyranny," and concedes that establishing democracy in the Middle East is desirable. But it regrets that the war may have been motivated by "American national interest" (though it does not admit to any British or international interest in removing Saddam).
An apology to Muslims for the Iraq War, the bishops suggest, could be offered at a "public gathering, well prepared in advance," based on the precedent of Roman Catholic apologies for Jewish pogroms of the Middle Ages or the Dutch Reformed Church regretting Apartheid in South Africa. The bishops grant that such an apology would draw "denigration from predictable quarters."
The Church of England, like U.S. mainline Protestantism, is imploding demographically while evangelical and other forms of orthodox Christianity are growing around the world. Perhaps these bishops and other critics of conservative Christianity, rather than relying upon fears and stereotypes, should more closely examine the reasons behind their own declining cultural influence.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 04:55 ||
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#1
I'm a card carrying atheist and I strongly support the USA led WoT. CoE clerics who have more or less dispensed with the notion of God and are now searching for relevance in half baked 'progressive' causes really piss me off. Isn't there a quote from Shakespeare about 'meddling priests'?
#5
All I got was this lousy t-shirt that sez "Cake or Death?"
I thought "Cake or Death" was the Anglican slogan.
As for these bishops -- wake me when they start preaching Christianity again. I expect a muezzin will be giving the call from the Canterbury Cathedral Mosque long before then.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2005 7:39 Comments ||
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#6
A lampoon of them, indeed, originating with Monty Python (Eric Idle with the clipboard in Life of Brian) then followed up much later by Eddie Izzard in a great stand-up routine. Both were wicked parody, in fact, of the pooftas. :)
#9
The fools have lost their flock and their religion so they venture boldly into politics as the unelected learned elders of an archaic religious anomoly. They do so need to be beaten down in a pointed and brutal torrent of words. Nasty hypocrits playing at pseudo "progressives". Methinks they should really consider preparing their full public apology before calling upon others to do so for acting in self-defense (and for and to the Bishops' own benefit I might add). Ungrateful idiots all of them.
#11
Buffoons like this make me laugh. It just reminds me that more and more Anglicans in the US are not Episcopalians, but are properly Anglicans, belonging to African missionary churches.
The thought of some black African missionary in a giant, cast-iron kettle, being cooked for a feast by a tribe of cannibalistic liberal heathens in "Whitest America"...
#13
In fact they were the cause Charles did not marry Camilla when he was young and instead went in a disastrous marriage with Diana (IMHO a first class bitch and a greedy one) who did so much dammage to monarchy's prestige that I doubt it will last for long.
#14
Funny you should mention Charlie, see this (much more has been said about this particular
"conspiracy theory" bit,which might even be true; he's supposed to have converted in Turkey, btw, probably to sufism) :
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/119 Is Prince Charles a Convert to Islam?
November 9, 2003
Is Prince Charles a Convert to Islam? In a 1997 Middle East Quarterly article titled "Prince Charles of Arabia," Ronni L. Gordon and David M. Stillman looked at evidence that Britain's Prince Charles might be a secret convert to Islam. They shifted through his public statements (defending Islamic law, praising the status of Muslim women, seeing in Islam a solution for Britain's ailments) and actions (setting up a panel of twelve "wise men" to advise him on Islamic religion and culture), then concluded that, "should Charles persist in his admiration of Islam and defamation of his own culture," his accession to the throne will indeed usher in a "different kind of monarchy."
All this comes to mind on reading an article titled "Charles Breaks Fast with the Faithful in Muscat" in today's Dubai-based Gulf News, which reports on some of Charles' activities during his current five-day visit to Oman:
He toured the Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosque for almost two hours and "took keen interest in studying various sections at the mosque, including the main prayer hall." As his spokesman put it, "The Prince was particularly keen to come to the mosque today to see the fantastic building and remarkable architecture which Prince was fascinated with. The Prince has a great love for Islamic architecture and I can't think of finer example than this mosque."
He "spent a considerable time at an exhibition of Islamic calligraphy and held meetings with Sheikha Aisha Al Siaby, Head of Public Authority for Craft Industries and Taha Al Kisri, the Head of Omani Society for Fine Arts to discuss various aspects of Islamic art."
He "broke fast with a large congregation of people from different nationalities as he sat with folded legs on the floor in the open. He ate date and drank juice at the call of Iftar."
None of this, of course, is evidence that the Heir to the British Throne has changed religions, but his actions most certainly would be consistent with such a move, and especially the implication that he had kept the Ramadan fast. (November 9, 2003)
Dec. 18, 2004 update: Prince Charles put himself in the middle of an Islamic theological issue that again could suggest his conversion to Islam â for if that is not the case, then on what basis does he opine on the Islamic law requiring that apostates from Islam be executed? Jonathan Petre of London's Daily Telegraph reports on a private summit of Christian and Muslim leaders at Clarence House on this topic sponsored earlier in December by the prince. Apparently, however, he did not get the results he hoped for, with one Christian participant indicating that Charles was "very, very unhappy" about its outcome. That may have been because the Muslims at the meeting resented his public involvement in this topic.
July 14, 2005 update: And what does the good prince have to say about the murder by Islamists of 55 in London a week ago? He put fingers to keyboard and produced "True Muslims Must Root Out The Extremists" for the Mirror.
some deeply evil influence has been brought to bear on these impressionable young minds. ⦠Some may think this cause is Islam. It is anything but. It is a perversion of traditional Islam. As I understand it, Islam preaches humanity, tolerance and a sense of community. ⦠these acts have nothing to do with any true faith. ⦠it is vital that everyone resists the temptation to condemn the Muslim community for the actions of such a tiny and evil minority. If we succumb to that temptation, the bombers will have achieved their aim. Likewise, in my view, it is the duty of every true Muslim to condemn these atrocities and root out those among them who preach and practise such hatred and bitterness.
Comment: This sounds to me like the same apologetics churned out by the Muslim Council of Britain and other Islamist bodies.
Aug. 2, 2005 update: At the funeral of King Fahd in Riyadh, the Associated Press reports, "Non-Muslims were not allowed at the ceremonies." So far as I can tell, Charles did not attend the ceremonies. (There surely would have been a press uproar if he had.) We can conclude that whatever his inner faith, he is not presenting himself as a Muslim in public.
Sept. 4, 2005 update: Prince Charles revealed in a letter leaked to the Daily Telegraph that he had strained relations with George Carey, then archbishop of Canterbury, over his attitude toward Islam. Particularly contentious was his expressed intent, on becoming king and supreme governor of the Church of England, to ditch the centuries' old defender of the faith title and replace it with defender of faith and defender of the Divine. The letter reveals the archbishop's reaction.
I wish you'd been there for the archbishop! Didn't really appreciate what I was getting at by talking about "the Divine" and felt that I had said far more about Islam than I did about Christianity - and was therefore worried about my development as a Christian.
According to royal aides, Charles did not much respect Lord Carey's views and the feelings were reciprocated.
#16
Isn't Charles a graduate of some prestigious military school and had a stint in some kind of high profile active duty military unit? That would seem to fit a royal male family member curriculum vitae.
If so, even if Charles is a sufi and has been known to talk to vegetable, he should dispatch the Archdruid pretty easily, should they ditch it out in a no-holds barred mixed martial-arts octagon-style ultimate fighting bout. I'd pay to see this (or at least search it in Emule).
The trial of an Algerian man with suspected al-Qaeda terror links is to proceed, a judge in Belfast has ruled. Abbas Boutrab, 27, denies possessing 25 computer discs containing instructions on bomb-making downloaded from the web. The defence had argued he should be cleared because the evidence against him was of a "tenuous nature". However, Mr Justice Weatherup said he was satisfied the trial should go ahead on those charges, but acquitted him of using a doctored Italian passport.
Mr Boutrab, who has been charged under three different aliases, has an address at Whitehouse on the Shore Road in Belfast. The prosecution claim he downloaded material from the internet onto 25 floppy discs. The material is alleged to include details of how to construct a bomb capable of downing a jet aeroplane and how to make a silencer for an assault rifle between October 2002 and April 2003. Mr Boutrab denies possessing and collecting information "for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism". He also denies handling a stolen Nokia mobile phone.
Defence lawyers at the non-jury Belfast Crown Court said on Wednesday the evidence against Mr Boutrab was "of such a tenuous nature that no jury properly directed could safely convict him". Mr Justice Weatherup said he was satisfied the trial should proceed on the terrorist-related offences. However, he directed that Mr Boutrab be found not guilty of using the doctored passport to get a job at the Holiday Inn through Lynn Recruitment, as no contract existed between Mr Boutrab and the employment agency. The judge adjourned the case until Thursday when the defence case is due to start.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:17 ||
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Lawrence of Arabia told the cabinet at the end of the first world war that there was no case "for separating Sunni and Shia Arabs", an extraordinary foreshadowing of the issues at stake in this weekend's Iraqi constitutional vote, overseen by US and British occupying forces.
TE Lawrence's ideas are shown in a recently unearthed map that is one of many uncanny links between past and present in an new Imperial War Museum exhibition marking the 70th anniversary of his death in 1935. Winston Churchill led mourners at the funeral of the national hero and writer of genius mythologised for his role in the desert war against Ottoman Turkey. "From the sands of Arabia to the mother earth of England," intoned the Pathe newsreel as "the soldier-philosopher who rallied the Arabs to our cause" was buried.
Paintings, sculptures and memorabilia trace the life of the enigmatic man whose archaeological work in the Levant led him to military intelligence in Cairo. He spent two years with Sharif Hussein of Mecca delivering gold, blowing up trains and capturing the Red Sea port of Aqaba in a desert raid before entering Jerusalem and later Damascus.
The artefacts, photographs and documents catalogue the deepening involvement of Britain in the postwar Middle East and the fateful changes that shaped today's still turbulent region. Lawrence felt Arab hopes had been betrayed by the secret wartime carve-up that gave France control of Syria and Lebanon and Britain of Palestine - where the Jews had been promised a "national home" - and Transjordan. Prince Faisal, Hussein's son, became king of Iraq and his dynasty ruled until it was overthrown by the precursors of the Ba'ath party.
Tales of derring-do go alongside the geo-politics. Exhibits include Lawrence's silk robes, Arab headdress and Lee Enfield rifle (notched to mark the killing of a Turkish officer). There is the white flag raised at the surrender of Jerusalem and rusting bits of the Hejaz railway where he honed his guerrilla techniques. The IWM has even tracked down the Brough Superior SS100 motorcycle he was riding when he was killed.
Lawrence's stylish wit is much in evidence. So, too, is the depressive side that led him to despair and anonymity. Controversy about his sexuality - he was raped by a Turkish official and paid to be flogged while serving incognito in the postwar RAF - is not settled. And there is still mystery about the identity of the "SA" to whom he dedicated his master-work, Seven Pillars of Wisdom. A colleague called him: "An odd gnome, half cad, with a touch of genius."
Lawrence's circle included artists such as Eric Kennington and Augustus John whose works enrich this remarkable show. So do posters of promotional tours by US publicist Lowell Thomas, who quipped that Lawrence had "a genius for backing into the limelight".
And so it remains: the 1962 David Lean film starring Omar Sharif and Peter O'Toole guaranteed him fame for generations. "I loathe the notion of being celluloided," Lawrence said, but he was. Such is his place in the pantheon of British heroes that his Madame Tussaud's dummy appears on the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper album cover.
Lawrence's ideas on unconventional warfare, and Arabs, have enjoyed a revival since the current western entanglement in his old stamping ground. Pentagon planners are mining Seven Pillars for tips about strategy. "Do not try to do too much," he advised. "Better the Arabs do it tolerably than you do it perfectly. It is their war and you are their to help them, not win it for them."
The exhibition runs at the Imperial War Museum, south London from October 14 to April 17 2006
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Oh! These robes are so silk!
Let's run over the dune in these fetching duds.
#2
It is weoirfder than that: Lawrence claimed urbi et orbe to have been captured by the Turks (who didn't identify him) and raped by their commander but his companions adamantly denied the whole thing: he didn't fall into Turkish hands and wasn't raped.
Could have been a kind of masochistic streak who caused Lawrence to assert something who would shock his audience.
#3
the notorious foward authored by lawrence in his book reminesces about his homo cluster fucks with his arabo-male companions behind the dunes--he had sex with more arab men than cleopatra
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
10/13/2005 13:07 Comments ||
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#4
Weren't contemporary men of Cleopatria non-arabs, since the islamic conquest of North Africa had not yet occurred? I'm not sure, but ancient egyptians had to be some kind of berbers, amazighs, possibly greek or even celtic offshoots,... IE meditteranean, but not arab?
I'm nitpicking, I know, you're probably right in your assessment of Lawrence ass-banditry.
#5
about his homo cluster fucks with his arabo-male companions behind the dunes--he had sex with more arab men than cleopatra
There is a problem: his tendencies were of a "female" homosexual and I doubt Arabs would have repected, obeyed or even paid attention to one. As I said, there are serious doubts about his assertion that he was raped by a Turkish officer.
I think that he discovered his real tendencies: homosexuality+masochism after the war and that in his book he lied when situating it during the war. Until he disovered his tendencies Lawrence seems to have believed his lack of desires for women was due to him being an iron man able to placate his impulsions and too strong for falling in women's nets.
Via Western Resistance
A Protestant evangelical pressure group has warned that it will try to use the government's racial and religious hatred law to prosecute bookshops selling the Qur'an for inciting religious hatred.
Christian Voice, a fringe fundamentalist group which first came to public prominence this year when it campaigned against the BBC's broadcasting of Jerry Springer The Opera, was among the evangelical organisations taking part in a 1,000-strong demonstration against the bill outside parliament yesterday as the House of Lords held a second reading debate on the measure.
Its director, Stephen Green, said the organisation would consider taking out prosecutions against shops selling the Islamic holy book. He told the Guardian: "If the Qur'an is not hate speech, I don't know what is. We will report staff who sell it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that unbelievers must be killed."
The sectarian organisation's tactics have regularly appalled other Christian groups. Its website proclaims its right to protect its own freedom of speech in attacking other religious groups: MPs "have no right to try to stifle our freedom to preach the gospel. It is not just Islam which is the problem. If a preacher is explaining the horrors of Hinduism ... a charge of stirring up religious hatred would be almost inevitable. Preaching against sin in general, or adultery or homosexuality in particular, may also land a preacher in court."
The bill has seen a wide range of Christian groups making common cause with secularists. Yesterday the Catholic church, while welcoming the measure in principle, expressed doubts about the drafting of the legislation, as have Church of England bishops. A Church of England spokesman said: "We regard the test of stirring up hatred to be a strong one which would be unlikely to penalise preachers or comedians going about their normal business. However, we wish to be reassured that the formulation of the offence will distinguish clearly between words and actions which incite hatred and expressions of opinion which are merely controversial or offensive."
During yesterday's Lords debate the former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey said that it "threatens civil liberties". "I am troubled by the bill before us and feel that rather than strengthening the social fabric of our society it would weaken it. It has the potential to drive a wedge between the Muslim community and the rest of us," he said.
He was joined in opposing the measure by the Bishop of Winchester and the former Lord Chancellor Lord Mackay, who questioned its failure to define religious belief. But the lord chancellor, Lord Falconer, told the upper house that "the bill will not have the impact on freedom of speech which opponents say it will. Incitement to religious hatred represents a gap in the criminal law and it is right that it be filled."
Most of the Christian running against the bill has been made by evangelical groups.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
The idiocy of PCism turned back upon itself. Interesting.
#2
Stupid stunt, counter-productive. If they"re trying to point out the absurdities of a bad law, I wish them luck. If they actually think someone is going to hear their message, they're deluded.
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
10/13/2005 1:46 Comments ||
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#3
Lol. So you're saying that PCism is so entrenched that they'll waste their time. Fine. That someone challenges the deepening slide into dhimmitude and stupidity is, to me, refreshing.
It's not true that the Bible is free of calls to violence: the conquest of Caanan by the ancient Hebrews coming out of Egypt is a case in point. A few of the Psalms can make a pious Liberal uncomfortable. Even then, God gave Israel clear boundaries within which it could not spread, and even forbade invasion of certain countries whose ancestors were related to those of the Israelites, making them relatives of a sort.
Even then, as long as no one, Israelite or foreigner, worshipped idols, all were entitled to equal rights and treated the same. There are multiple commands forbidding discrimination against strangers, and there is no concept of the Zakat. Indeed, Israel is commanded to treat the alien and sojourner equally with native Israelis "because you were aliens in the land of Egypt." This Old testament concept of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is patently absent in the Koran as a positive command. The Mafia version of the Golden Rule is more the rule: "Do unto others before they do unto you".
The new testament case against violence is so strong, one is tempted to believe that Pacifism is biblical. However, a careful reading of the NT indicates that what little "legislation" there is is directed at the Church, not the government. There are no commands against taking usury, for example, although the command to deal fairly and honestly with all is required of believers. There are no standing instructions to command solders to leave the military: the only command actually given to the military in the New Testament comes from John the Baptist, who told them to not take advantage of their power to defraud others, and to stop bitching about their salary. The call is not that there be no military, but that the military be more professional.
Other than that, you can't build a nation from the NT. There ARE Christans who think that the instructions of the Old Testament still apply to Christians today, and which include the instructions, and command, to run the government: I think they're nuts and make the rest of us look bad.
The idiocy of religious villification laws has to be driven home. If this is what it takes, then this is what it takes.
I mean, fer crissake, you had two Australian preachers convicted under one of these laws because they quoted the Koran. If Commonwealth countries can cite each other's case law, then Christian Voice has a slam-dunk case. If the opposition says it wasn't what was quoted, but who was doing the quoting, then you've exposed them for the totalitarian wannabes they are.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2005 7:35 Comments ||
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#8
Isn't the Quran expressly allowed to be produced and sold under these laws? (in other only muslims are allowed to incite hatred ande murder...).
All in the name of PC-ism and 'tolerance' because it is [un]holy scripture of course...
#11
JFM, You do not consider this to be a call to violence?
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] themâthe Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusitesâas the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.
In the Bible, there are commands from God to kill such and such peoples during the conquest of Canaan but you are exactly right that such commands were strictly limited to the establishment of a very strictly defined area. The Jews were without a doubt among the least expansionist-minded people ever. They have been and to this day are content with a tiny place to live within the borders of Israel as described in the Bible. They want nothing more. The Bible encourages nothing more. I would add to that that the Bible never ever commands that anyone be killed for refusing to believe in the Jewish God. All the killing commands stem from establishing Israel in their homeland or against people who attacked them or were plotting take that tiny bit of land from them. In contrast, the koran dictates that pagans/unbelievers/ polytheists be given the choice of conversion to islam or death. This is forced conversion by the way and it does exist in the koran contrary to the oft cited "let there be no compulsion in religion" which is meant only for the peoples of the book not for types like the Hindus, the American Indians, Buddhists etc.
Most telling is the background of the peoples that the commands to conquer and or kill were directed towards. Worshipping idols was not the worst of their crimes. Often idol worshipping was closely connected to child sacrifice which the God of the Bible abhorred and abolished by subsituting the ram for Isaac. It may be PC to see the Canaanites as innocents slaughtered by invaders but what essentially happened was that the cults of the death-eating Gods were eradicated from that land. At least that was the intention. It could be argued that it was wise to command that none of these be allowed to survive to further propagate their beliefs particularly if they were especially aggressive or entrenched in their beliefs. It could well be argued that the end of child sacrifice the world over began in Israel.
I'll say one last thing about the Psalsms. They use strong language and prayers against enemies all in the context of justice against evil doers who have already done overt harm to the poor, or the believer or the just man etc. They have also long been interpreted allegorically as the believer praying to God in the strongest terms to help defeat ones inner demons and sins. I dont believe they have ever been interpreted as some kind of command to believers. They are brutally honest human expressions for justice from the Great Judge. Who hasnt felt like wishing our enemies dead from time to time especially when the harm done is egregious.
One infamous verse of the Psalms is I think the best illustration. I can't remember the number or the verse number but in it is the prayer that the enemies children will have their brains dashed out against the pavements. Something like that. It is thought that this psalm dates from a time after one of the falls of Jerusalem or maybe another Jewish city. Its not hard to imagine that the Psalmist may have seen his own children or someones elses children die in this way with his own eyes. Who could blame the man for hoping with all the horror and bitterness in his heart that someday his enemies would be paid back in like manner.
I think the background of the OT is too conveniently forgotten by those who equate it with the koran. the koran is unlimited in either time or geography. Its commmands to wage war and kill are eternal until the whole world has submitted to islam. Not only is the OT's commands time and geography restricted but the NT has always overridden it whenever the two conflict. There is NO command to force conversion, or to kill in the NT. The NT is the part of the Bible which is unlimited and eternal for Christians.
I hate to get ugly but I have to be honest. The koran is a blood soaked rag compared to the New Testament. No amount of "good" verses in it can counteract that fact. No one can derive permission to be violent or conquer by war from the NT and noone can justify a single act of their own violence from the example of Jesus. Muslims have exmaple after example from mohammed to resort to violence when one does not get ones way or if one is disrespected. mohammed also justified his actions as the righteous "crusade" to establish islam as the supreme religion lone before any Christian ever conceived of going to war to defend their holy places.
I hate to say that the koran must be banned, but without a doubt the truth about it should be made clear. Maybe it should be treated like handguns are here in the US? ;-) It is like a loaded gun or a bomb in a lot of ways.
#13
I want to see the Mullahs and Muslims defend the Koran chapter after chapter, verse after verse and explain how it is not violent. I think the entire affair could be very educational to the masses even if exceptions are made in the end.
The explaination of the intention behind the command you cite is within the verse itself.
God the lover of children and of justice was furious at these people because they most likely practiced child sacrifice and if I were him I would also stop at nothing to ensure that my people did not pick up the practice.
We justify war for all sorts of good reasons always related to justice, or the protection of freedom or the liberation of peoples or to stop the spread of evil. Tell me what could be more f-ing evil than child sacrifice????
I could be wrong since I am not the best at quoting the Bible from memory. But I think it has God himself saying somewhere that he hates child sacrifice. I believe it is rare for him to say something like that and is always reserved for the worst most hate deserving things.
And before you say it, given the context of the times, I doubt that the Jews could have just talked the child sacrificers out of their dirty little practice using an argument that it was wrong to kill a child. Before Israel there were was no moral context. It didnt exist. It would have been absolutely meaningless to their enemies to say that children/anyone had an inherant God given right to life. It couldnt be argued from a practical standpoint either since only few children were sacrificed each year under normal circumstances. One couldnt have argued that it hurt the future to kill a couple of kids a year.
Even one child's death is an enormous wrong that would have to be stopped ASAP. Once God had chosen and developed his people to readiness, he launched them on a conquest to establish themselves in the land of promise so they would be a people of substance and influence and the first order of business was to clear that land of the worst of the worst.
Its worthy to note that other peoples were spared by God especially of they helped the Jews or showed moral promise by doing some good deed like showing hospitality etc. I think the biblical record is pretty clear that God only showed his full fury to the worst people especially if they were attempting to corrupt his people.
Would you blame a father for ferociously protecting his children from harm and corruption?
#15
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] themâthe Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusitesâas the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.
May I add that the Israelites did not completely obey in extirminating these aforementioned obstacles, but lived peaceably among them and even intermarried, causing God to warn them that they would be "briars and thorns" to them in the future.
Not exactly sure what you mean by those quotes. If you are equating islamic unlimited expansion and forcing pagans to be muslims or die with the Old Testament commands to clear only, see that, only the land of Israel from those who not only worshipped idols but also sacrificed children, then you are sadly sadly mistaken.
Equating Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, Greco-Romans, the descendants of the Persian Empire, the Hindus of India and even the pagan tribes of the Arabian penninsula at the time of mohammed and the tribes that Israel was commanded to fight only for a brief period of time within a limited area is just plain ignorant of the facts.
All the peoples that the muslims attacked first were guilty of no more than the following: They worshipped idols (but child sacrifice was long dead in those areas) they disrespected mohammed and the muslims by refusing to give up their liberty and submit to their rule. The Meccans were mean to mohammed and made fun of him. The Chrisitans were doing nothing but minding their own business and attending to their own internal troubles when the muslims on mohammeds command came tearing out of the desert wastes hell bent on conquering the Christian Byzantine empire for islam. Ditto all the others.
The Jews were never commanded to go on an unending jihad against all non Jews until all the world was ruled by Jews. The Christians were not commanded to go to wage unending war until all the world was ruled by Christians. Jesus never raised a sword and neither did his disciples to bring one person to Christianity regardless of how people later on might have done in their name. There are none, absolutely no instances or cammands where the Christian is commanded to threaten pagans with a choice of conversion of death. Jesus never beseiged a city with such a threat. He never robbed other people or had them put to death for disagreeing with him.
By the time mohammed came along and justified what he did as a righteous jihad, the world was a much different and more advanced place. mohammed had options. islam was a step back to the bad old days and it wreaked havoc and death and destruction on a part of the world that had been under the influence of civilization for thousands of years.
Lets see if you can comprehend what this means. The Jewish faith is 2000 years older than Christianity. That make a difference of 2600 years between the world where the Jews came up and the world where the muslims came up. Not the least of the influences in that time was Christianity which spread without violence for 400 years in spite of persecution. This was not only a more advanced way to spread ones ideas but it was wildly successful. The Christian faith was in charge of the 1000 year old empire that persecuted itin 400 years with out one battle being waged between the Romans and the Christians. There were no Christian armies until that time. Many Christians in fact remained conflicted about service in the army even after this time. That is what a naturally peaceful religion that later loses it way looks like.
Jesus didnt, like mohammmed did, put up with teasing for a little while then run away and then go on a campaign to make those that teased him submit to his rule. mohammed started the violence from the very first years of islam when he lost patience with his failure to become the big man in mecca that everyone obeyed. It continues to this day unabated after his example and enshrined in islams so called holy book.
Noted. I misunderstood you. I apologize for going off on you. I kinda have a hair trigger. Its something I need to work on just a bit.
Thanks for the quotation and the correct number of the psalm. I should also clarify one of my remarks regarding it. I said it was an infamous line but it is actually only infamous to those weenies who chose to see the Bible as no better than any other book. They use this verse often to make their point without even trying to get beneath the surface. This is entirely deliberate. I understood the verse in its proper context from the start as I'm sure many Christians have. Its not hard to understand that these are the words of a good man who has seen something truly awful and god bless him, he still cries out to the Lord for justice and prays out of complete honesty what he is feeling and thinking about the people who did the crime. That is the very picture of a strong and powerful relationship between God and believer. Although, most of us can't imagine what its like to witness the brutal sack of a city, who couldnt relate to the man's feelings having witnessed terrible evil with his own eyes?
The more I know, the more I love the Bible. These days what I admire most is its honesty. It doesnt try to clean up its heroes. The person who wrote Psalm 137 isnt afraid to reveal his darkest thoughts to God in song. Human and divine meet in its pages as we do in life. Among it many other fine attributes, it is also literally a realistic and entirely honest picture of our life in this world with our God. What is it like to be human in all eras? Just look in its pages. the Bible knows and God knows.
Unlike a lot of liberal Christians, I grow more impressed with the Old Testamant/Tankh (sp?) every time that I read its words. The more that I read of it the more I want to read.
The closest transliteration from the Hebrew acronym would be tanakh, where the kh sounds like you are trying to clear your throat, the attempt at which has been known to cause some people pain ;-). The accent is on the second syllabobble. The acronym is short for Torah (the 5 Books of Moses or Pentateuch) + Nevi'im (Prophets) + K'tuvim (Writings = Psalms, Song of Solomon, etc).
Separately, the books collected as the Apocropha between the old and new testaments of the Catholic bible are some of the many scrolls of the Jewish oevre that the rabbis who consolidated the Jewish bible deemed unfit for inclusion (for reasons of theme, subject matter, historic legitimacy or simply timing - Daniel was the last book written before the cutoff), just as the Gnostic Gospels among others were not included in the Christian bible.
#27
Been pretty busy today, so haven't come by until now to read all the responses. Thanks.
You are indeed right, Peggy: I'd say that Christianity lost its way with the "donation of Constantine", which (supposedly) gave the western half of the Roman Empire to the Church. The mechanics of how the Church subsequently went off the rails is rather lengthly, but the adage that "power corrupts" applies to the Church as well.
Britain published sweeping plans to fight terrorism on Wednesday, which, if passed into law, would let police hold suspects for three months without charge, sparking anger from senior judges and civil rights groups. However Tony Blairâs government may still have to back down on the most contested parts of the bill, which was drawn up after four British Islamist militants blew up 52 commuters and themselves on Londonâs transport system in July.
The government has heeded police calls to extend the time they can detain terrorism suspects without charge to 90 days from 14. Police say they need longer to sift through evidence, including computer records, if they are to prevent attacks. âI have found their request absolutely compelling,â Blair told parliament. âI have to do my best to protect the people of this country and to make sure their safety comes first.â Critics say the measures are draconian compared with other countries and even Britainâs top judge has attacked the plans.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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The Uzbek government has stepped up its campaign of repression against human rights defenders by arresting a prominent rights activist and vocal critic of the Andijan massacre on the eve of her departure for an international conference in Dublin, Human Rights Watch said today. Mukhtabar Tojibaeva was arrested on October 7 while preparing to leave for a human rights conference in Dublin. In recent weeks, she had been the focus of growing government pressure due to her human rights work, including her vocal criticism of the government's May 13 massacre of hundreds of civilians at Andijan. At approximately 11 p.m. on October 7, 16 police officers in Margilan stormed into Tojibaeva's house as she was preparing to leave for Tashkent, where she planned to catch a flight toward Dublin the next morning. Several of the officers were wearing masks and wielding automatic weapons and nightsticks.
MADRID â Spanish militarised police boarded a Venezuelan fishing boat carrying nearly four tonnes of cocaine worth hundreds of millions of euros bound for Spain. The drugs were headed for markets across Europe, police sources said. The fishing boat's 10 crewmen, all Venezuelans, were arrested, according to Civil Guard officials.
We've heard other reports of drug smugglers moving operations from Columbia into Venezuela. Seems like they have found the "climate" more to their liking.
The Yemaya II was boarded on the high seas in the Atlantic and a false compartment containing the cocaine was found during a search of the vessel. The operation was launched after the Civil Guard received a tip that a group of drug traffickers planned to smuggle cocaine into Spain via a maritime route. The tip was confirmed by intelligence received from the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which reported the fishing boat's departure for Spain. The Yemaya II is being taken to the Canary Islands, where the boat and its crew will be turned over to judicial officials for processing.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/13/2005 14:03 ||
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#1
Cocaine is a high explosive too. 4 tons is a big bang anyway you look at it.
Relevant to WoT because of Pinter's anti-war "poetry". He won the Prize for his plays, however. I hope. EFL.
Harold Pinter, the British playwright, said today that his longstanding political activism may have played a role in the decision to award him the 2005 Nobel Prize for Literature.
His face cut and bruised after a recent fall and carrying a cane for support, Pinter added: "I think the world has had enough of my plays by now. But I think I shall certainly be writing more poetry and certainly remain deeply engaged in the question of political structures in this world." Read the whole thing. Laugh lines galore. Here is Pinter's official site, which contains Pinter's famous 2003 poem, "God Bless America", featuring the deathless lines Your eyes have gone out and your nose/Sniffs only the pong of the dead... Good news for satirists the world over.
#1
He said America deserved 911
The Nobel socialist circle jerk has taken every chance it could find to insult the US and its people. The Halliburton Earthquake machine should focus on them for a few days.
#4
Well, look on the bright side. At least, the Nobel for "literature" has gone to someone we have at least heard of, this year. We may not have heard much good... but at least we have heard of him...unlike the deservedly obscure Austrian raving loon from last year.
And those are not "scare" quotemarks... they are "viciously skeptical" quotemarks.
#8
TW - I just made the mistake of reading some of Pinter's poetry - my weak little parody does not even begin to approach the toxic effluvia that flows from that moonbat's pen.
A review by former intelligence officers has concluded that the Bush administration "apparently paid little or no attention" to prewar assessments by the Central Intelligence Agency that warned of major cultural and political obstacles to stability in postwar Iraq.
The unclassified report was completed in July 2004. It appeared publicly for the first time this week in Studies in Intelligence, a quarterly journal, and was first reported Wednesday in USA Today. The journal is published by the Center for the Study of Intelligence, which is part of the C.I.A. but operates independently.
The review was conducted by a team led by Richard J. Kerr, a former deputy director of central intelligence, working under contract for the C.I.A. It acknowledged the deep failures in the agency's prewar assessments of Iraq's weapons programs but said "the analysis was right" on cultural and political issues related to postwar Iraq.
Mr. Kerr's review did not describe those findings in detail. But The New York Times first reported last year that two classified reports prepared for President Bush in January 2003 had predicted that an American-led invasion of Iraq would increase support for political Islam and would result in a deeply divided Iraqi society prone to violent internal conflict.
Those reports were by the National Intelligence Council, the highlevel group responsible for producing the government's most authoritative intelligence assessments.
Since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, the C.I.A. and other intelligence agencies have been notably more gloomy than the White House and the Pentagon about prospects for stability in Iraq. In the summer of 2004, newspaper articles about those reports so angered some Republicans that they accused the agency of trying to undermine President Bush.
The role played by prewar intelligence on postwar Iraq has not yet been the subject of a comprehensive independent review.
The Senate Intelligence Committee was to have addressed the issue as part of a second phase of its inquiry that began with a study of the intelligence on Iraq's weapons program. But the Republican-led committee has shown no sign of producing a report, prompting complaints from Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and other Democrats.
A White House spokesman, Frederick Jones, disputed any suggestion that the administration had fallen short in its postwar planning. "Our position is that we did plan adequately for the postwar period," Mr. Jones said. The C.I.A. declined to comment, and Mr. Kerr did not respond to an e-mail message.
A former senior intelligence official said Mr. Kerr's conclusions were "broadly correct." Still, the former official said, "some in the policy-making world would probably deny that these points were brought forcefully to their attention."
The review was one of three conducted by Mr. Kerr and his team, but it is the only one that was unclassified. It described as "seriously flawed, misleading and even wrong" most of the conclusions reached by the C.I.A. before the invasion of Iraq about President Saddam Hussein's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs.
But Mr. Kerr offered praise for prewar intelligence reports on issues other than Iraq's weapons programs, saying that they "accurately addressed such topics as how the war would develop and how Iraqi forces would or would not fight."
Mr. Kerr also praised what he called perceptive analysis by intelligence agencies on the issue of ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda, a subject on which the agency clashed with the White House by concluding that there were no substantive links.
Mr. Kerr said the agency had also accurately "calculated the impact of the war on oil markets" and "accurately forecast the reactions of the ethnic and tribal factions in Iraq."
He credited what he called "strong regional and country expertise developed over time" within American intelligence agencies, as opposed to what he said had been heavy reliance on "technical analysis" for what proved to be misleading or inaccurate information about Iraq's weapons programs.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:23 ||
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#1
More sour grapes. Porter Goss can't clean the stables fast enough. However, on the few occasions that I dealt with the CIA technical and threat assessment people, I found them to be exceedingly knowledgeable, helpful, and apolitical. But then again, that was in the 70's and 80's and they were engineers instead of liberal arts / ivy league types.
#4
A review by former intelligence officers has concluded that the Bush administration "apparently paid little or no attention" to prewar assessments by the Central Intelligence Agency that warned of major cultural and political obstacles to stability in postwar Iraq.
Damn - too bad they didn't predict 9/11. Or the fall of the Berlin Wall.
#5
Mr. Kerr said the agency had also accurately "calculated the impact of the war on oil markets" and "accurately forecast the reactions of the ethnic and tribal factions in Iraq."
Hell, I could've predicted that, and I'm just a schmoe - not a professional intel analyst. Rawsnacks nails it: Predict something that involves some real insight that will help us prevent or take advantage of a situation and I'll start taking you seriously.
#6
90% of CIA analysis activities could be privatized to competing think tanks using open sources to generate analyses. Generators of accurate forecasts would get more contracts and revenue. Generators of inaccurate forecasts could apply for a job at the NYT.
#7
I guess my point really is: what are you predicting TODAY? I know who won the World Series last year, and I even know why. Hell, I predicted it all along...
But who's going to win it this year? Don't know? Then StFU. (go astros)
#8
Miles Copeland's Without Cloak or Dagger included an episode from O(1946) in which a fake network was created whose sole sources were the encylopedia and the New York Times. The powers-that-were applauded the results, resulting in much hilarity when they were told how it had been done.
I'm not sure the Times would be the best source these days, though.
No doubt OldSpook can/could tell us a lot more about open source research.
Posted by: James ||
10/13/2005 15:33 Comments ||
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#9
Don't mock us RawSnacks. We have this years World Series Winner narrowed to four teams. We knew the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox and the Padres werern't gonna make it.
Posted by: CIA ||
10/13/2005 15:45 Comments ||
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President Bush does not have the luxury of waiting for the international community to validate his policies in Iraq. But we do have the lessons of Vietnam. In Vietnam, the voices of the "cut-and-run" crowd ultimately prevailed, and our allies were betrayed after all of our work to set them on their feet. Those same voices would now have us cut and run from Iraq, assuring the failure of the fledgling democracy there and damning the rest of the Islamic world to chaos fomented by extremists. Those who look only at the rosy side of what defeat did to help South Vietnam get to where it is today see a growing economy there and a warming of relations with the West. They forget the immediate costs of the United States' betrayal. Two million refugees were driven out of the country, 65,000 more were executed, and 250,000 were sent to "reeducation camps." Given the nature of the insurgents in Iraq and the catastrophic goals of militant Islam, we can expect no better there.
As one who orchestrated the end of our military role in Vietnam and then saw what had been a workable plan fall apart, I agree that we cannot allow "another Vietnam." For if we fail now, a new standard will have been set. The lessons of Vietnam will be forgotten, and our next global mission will be saddled with the fear of its becoming "another Iraq."
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2005 18:03 ||
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#2
Apparently so.
And also still alive is that old fool MacNamera. I knew people in the military in the 70ies who couldn't say "MacNamera" without making a face and spitting on the floor, practically. At least Laird has a grasp of certain other parallels. I couldn't bear to see the Iraqis left to hang, the way the South Vietnamese were. I'm too old and cynical to work refugee resettlement... again.
#3
As someone else pointed out, Iraq is exactly like Viet Nam, except that now we have occupied Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh is in the slammer and the North Viet Namese have just held their first democratic election and are about to vote on a new Constitution.
Except for those minor quibbles, it is exactly the same. Quackmire! Quackmire! Bah!
As for the international community, most of them are just pissed that they are no longer riding on Saddam's gravy train.
#4
We've thrown out Diem and occupied Saigon. Hanoi is about 500 miles north east. And the Politburo is still roaming free.
This war is about a hell of a lot more than Iraq and it's far from over. It will alst so long that a Democrat is bound to be President at some point. I just hope it's one like Hillary. The first time the MMs try to test her, she'll strike back unlike Gore, Kerry and all the other wusses the Donks put up.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2005 20:05 Comments ||
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#5
Don't ever assume a democrat will use US forces properly. During Clinton, Madelyn Albright was the de facto commander in chief, and her solution to any and every problem around the world was to send a tiny detachment of US personnel, with no support, backup, or possibility of reinforcement. Entire Divisions were neutralized by lack of personnel.
The recall of our armed forces from every corner of the planet was an invisible, but tangible first step after Bush II was elected.
Hillary, having no, zero, concept of how a military is used, would rely on imbeciles like the empty suit Warren Christopher, and a whole herd of 30-somethings from the Brookings Institution.
Remember how Jimmy Carter appointed a draft dodger to be SecDef? Harold Brown. The Pentagon was forced to fabricate an alternate reality for him, so that he couldn't destroy the whole defense establishment.
Even going back as far as Frank Roosevelt, who had two ambitious imbeciles to control the entire defense establishment: Cordell Hull and Frank Knox; whose exploits of incompetence and ambition were legend.
Hell, even Woodrow Wilson surrounded himself with just horrific incompetants for World War I. One of their first acts was for every administration bureaucrat with any pull to *order* their own personal rail car, and that it be sent to Washington for their own personal use. This orgy of greed led to a tie up in the rail lines that took months to unsnarl.
I truly cannot say that if a good republican was president at the start of WWII, the war wouldn't have lasted as long as it did, but I have my suspicions.
Don't ever, EVER hope that a democrat has any say in foreign or military policy when there is a war on.
My point is that's a helluva lot better chance than the rest of the eunuchs. This war is going to go on a long time. The trunks will not be in the White House for all of it.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2005 21:20 Comments ||
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#7
I think Hil would call Geena to get first-hand advice on how to be President.
#8
This is just such a sad post. Most Americans don't play party politics when we are at war - but not the right.
But to respond- we either say Viet Nam is similar or not. The right seems to be very selective about this.
No one who is not personally involved in this administration thinks that the White House has done a good job conducting this war. Hillary does a beter job fighting with Bill than George with Saddam.
The CIA will lead a new clandestine service designed to coordinate all traditional U.S. spying activities overseas, including those of the FBI and Pentagon, top intelligence officials said on Thursday. Oh, no. I hope this doesn't include DoD elements. I cna't believe Rummy would do this to the country
As part of an ambitious strategy to rebuild U.S. human intelligence after debilitating lapses over Iraq and the September 11, 2001, attacks, the new National Clandestine Service, or NCS, will operate out of the spy agency under a director reporting to CIA Director Porter Goss. I'd be more impressed with this idea if Goss had more hunting trophies hung on his wall
The new service will act as the national authority for the integration and coordination of human intelligence operations, which involve spying by people rather than satellites and other sophisticated technology. That should help recruitment /sarcasm
Intelligence experts view the service, which won President George W. Bush's approval in recent days, as an effort to restore some of the stature which the CIA lost when congressionally mandated reforms largely stripped the agency of its community role last year by establishing the position of director of national intelligence, held by John Negroponte. Screw the CIA's stature. Do what's best for the country. If CIA does the job correctly, it's starue will improve. If they screw up, we'll know nothing has changed and their stature will be that of the munchkins they always were.
"I am confident that with the creation of the NCS, the U.S. government will have a more cohesive and truly national human intelligence capability," Negroponte said in a statement announcing the service. There's nothing wrong in the government that can't be fixed with a reorganization and a new level of bureaucracy.
"This is another positive step in building an intelligence community that is more unified, coordinated, and effective, and is better positioned to meet the increasingly complex intelligence challenges of the future," he said.
With the new clandestine service based at his agency, Goss will have a dual role as CIA director and "National HUMINT Manager." HUMINT is bureaucratic parlance for human intelligence.
Goss is also leading an effort within the CIA to expand the agency's global operations and build its ability to act alone in countries where U.S. spies up to now have been more likely to act in concert with foreign intelligence services.
The CIA, which orchestrated America's Cold War espionage activities against the Soviet Union, forfeited its leadership role in the intelligence community as a result of the reforms crafted to address weaknesses exposed by the September 11 attacks.
Still reeling from criticism over intelligence lapses, the agency has lost some of its most senior clandestine officers in recent months.
The announcement of the new clandestine service comes just weeks after the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence said the CIA was failing to lead U.S. human intelligence efforts and suggested Negroponte take a stronger management role.
The CIA reached separate agreements earlier this year for coordinating foreign intelligence activities with the FBI and the Pentagon. Both have stepped up their intelligence activities overseas since the September 11 attacks prompted the Bush administration's war on terrorism.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2005 17:14 ||
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#2
Maybe. But the reality is that if we keep adding missions to the military's plate, sooner or later we're gonna break it.
Our military is the best there is -- but that doesn't just happen out of thin air. It happens because of a major investment in training, doctrine and equipment. They've got enough on their plates right now.
Doesn't mean we undo SOCOM. Just means we recognize that this stuff isn't one-size-fits-all.
#3
Don't disagree, but there is a humint aspect to military intelligence that I do not wish to see anywhere near the CIA and the CIA has not established that it can do the balance at all. I would prefer to see a new agency set up for clandestine ops that is off books. DOD seems to be the least best place to park it because of Geneva, etc. Perhaps in the Department of Energy. If you've got a real sense of humor, put it in Education.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2005 20:26 Comments ||
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Mrs. Davis is exactly right. HUMIT, tactical intelligence (without a highly bureaucratic overlay) is precisely what is needed in the WoT.
Besides, CIA has very, very few people on the ground. This has been Goss' admission from the onset. He is currently in a major internal battle with the Clintonoid (like hemoroids) within the CIA structure. It takes DECADES to build an effective HUMIT corp -- we ain't got no decades.
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/13/2005 21:50 Comments ||
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#5
CIA to head Clandestine Ops
I'll end the thread by agreeing with mmurray821.
we're f00ked
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/13/2005 23:00 Comments ||
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My only hope is that when real HUMINT is needed, someone in DoD will do what is needed and make the organization to do the deeds. Maybe I am being wishful, but is it possible that real HUMINT will be done by someone without publicity, and it will not involve some phony outfit like the NCS. I wonder if this big bureaucracy is just a diversion.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2005 23:21 Comments ||
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Not really news, but it's been a while since I posted an update. The prosecution is winding down its case; the defense will begin presenting its case soon after the court returns from recess.
The Sami Al-Arian trial recessed Wednesday until Oct. 24, with the prosecution still presenting evidence related to computers and Web sites. FBI Agent Russell Hayes spent Wednesday, his third day, on the witness stand going over exhibits, including e-mail sent to defendant Hatim Naji Fariz about the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Hayes is to resume testifying when the trial continues.
#1
I've been following this case, too. The judiciary should be watching closely, also. What difference will a recess make? The handling of this case, by all parties, police, prosecution, and judiciary, shows why the law enforcement model is not cost effective for handling the national security problem posed by Islamofascism. We are damn lucky there has not been more unrest among American Muslims, or this inadequacy would be apparent to everyone and there would be calls for and acts of vigilantism.
SAN DIEGO -- Police said Tuesday a man who shot and killed himself last week had built a sophisticated drug lab in his University City apartment.
That was Khaled Yasufi. We were wondering what he was brewing up in his kitchen sink.
The incident happened last Friday after neighbors complained about strong odors coming from a unit in the Coste Verde apartments. When police knocked on the door, the tenant came out and reported that everything was fine.
"Nothing to smell here. This isn't the apartment you're looking for. Move along."
A few minutes later, however, officers heard a gunshot. A SWAT team was called to the scene and a police robot eventually entered the apartment and found the man lying dead in a pool of blood. He died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, NBC 7/39 reported.
"He's dead, Jim"
Tuesday, county health officials said the drug operation was sophisticated. "This is not an -- excuse the expression -- 'tweeker lab,' " said Nick Vance, of the County Environmental Health Department. "These were not small quantities. This person had to know what they were doing."
And apparently was using his own product
Although the fumes were pungent, they were not dangerous to other tenants, Vance said. The odor came from the use of sassafras oil, which is used to make some illegal drugs.
Sassafras oil is an essential oil in the production of safrole, a precursor chemical in the manufacture of MDMA, aka Ecstasy.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/13/2005 09:00 ||
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Sassafras oil is an essential oil in the production of safrole, a precursor chemical in the manufacture of MDMA, aka Ecstasy.
It's also an essential ingredient in sassafras tea, which my mother and I used to drink sometimes when I was a kid. Now, apparently, it's considered a dangerous toxic substance. Feh.
#2
I called it a drug lab when it first got posted here on the Burg. Well I was right it as it was a type of Speed at least but not the Crank I thought it was.
And that Powerball jackpot is all mine...
Saddam Hussein is reading the Quran and writing poetry in his 12-by-15-foot jail cell as he readies himself for his trial next week. Hope it's as good as "Men and the City".
He is in good health with high morale," attorney Khalil al-Dulaimi said in an interview this week. Saddam is confident he can prove his innocence. It was the strawberries! That's where I had them!
Saddam believes the insurgency, which includes members of his former regime, will drive Americans from Iraq, al-Dulaimi said. Then I'll be able to wear my Run DMC hat and fire my shotgun again!
Saddam and seven co-defendants will be tried on charges of war crimes in front of a five-judge panel for allegedly ordering the killing of 143 people after a failed attempt on Saddam's life in Dujail, a town north of Baghdad. The trial is scheduled to start next Wednesday.Al-Dulaimi hinted at his defense strategy. "Saddam Hussein was on a visit to this village, and he was subject to an assassination attempt," he said. Punishing those who carried it out "is justifiable all over the world. Any president in the position of Saddam would do the same thing." I remember when Gerry Ford had all those people machine gunned after that Squeaky Frome thing.
Al-Dulaimi is one of the few people allowed to visit Saddam in a secret prison near Baghdad."If I want to see him, I wait in one of the districts in Baghdad, then they send me a dark-window car and another one as an escort," he said. "So I do not see anything." What's the password? Nope. Try again. Nope. Try again.
"Saddam spends most of his time reading the holy Quran, praying, and reading different kinds of books like poetry," al-Dulaimi said. Saddam also is writing poems."He has the right every day in the morning and evening to go in a big hall for 1œ hours, but alone," al-Dulaimi said. "He does not see or mix with any other members of his government." No use taking a chance getting shanked by one of his old buddies trying to get on the new bosses' good side.
Saddam's contact with the outside world is limited. He gets one heavily censored Arabic language newspaper, the U.S.-sponsored Al-Sabah. Some articles are cut out with scissors. He gets letters from his family through the Red Cross, but they are also censored. "I have seen one of the letters in which 70% of the letter is omitted. So he receives letters without any meaning," al-Dulaimi said. Saddam's family, in exile, has not been allowed to visit. Uday. Qusay. They never come see me. Bastards! Oh. When did that happen?
Saddam doesn't have a television and has no contact with the other members of his regime who also await war crimes trials.
Al-Dulaimi, who visited Saddam this week, says Saddam is aware of Saturday's referendum on a constitution. He is allowed to vote but probably won't because he doesn't recognize the legitimacy of political developments since the U.S.-led invasion. Saddam has "great confidence in the Iraqi resistance ... and that the occupation forces will be removed," al-Dulaimi said. Baghdad Bob is probably leading the counterattack as we speak. He said he would.
Al-Dulaimi, 41, said he's representing Saddam for free because the family's assets are frozen. There's also no money to mount a proper defense, which would require a full independent review of the evidence, he said. "For sure the trial is unfair," he said. Oh, well. Why waste time. Just hang him and get it over with.
AL-QAEDAâS second-in-command has ordered the groupâs leader in Iraq to prepare a campaign of violence across the Middle East to establish an Islamist superstate when America leaves Iraq.
But Ayman al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian doctor considered to be al-Qaedaâs leading strategic planner, also cautioned Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist chief in Iraq, that slaughtering Shia civilians could undermine their grand design by turning popular Muslim opinion against them.
Al-Qaedaâs ambitious vision is revealed in a 6,000-word letter, seized by US troops during a counter-terrorism operation in Iraq, that offers a unique insight into the organisationâs strategy. The letter, which the Bush Administration has just posted on the internet (www.dni.gov), also reveals a schism in al-Qaeda, with even al-Zawahiri questioning the brutality of al-Qaedaâs âemirâ in Iraq.
Zawahiri and Zarqawi are clearly at one in their desire to establish the Prophet Muhammadâs 7th-century vision of a kingdom of God on Earth, and want it to end in an apocalyptic showdown with Israel. Al-Zawahiri sets out for the first time a step-by-step plan to re-create Islamâs medieval caliphate, starting with the expulsion of US forces from Iraq, establishing an Islamist emirate in Baghdad. and then spreading jihad into nearby secular states such as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Kuwait.
The final stage would be a showdown with Israel âbecause Israel was established only to challenge any new Islamic entityâ, he writes.
The letter emphasises that the Mujahidinâs mission must not end with the expulsion of the Americans from Iraq âand then lay down their weapons and silence the fighting zeal. We will return to having the secularists and traitors holding sway over us. Instead the ongoing mission is to establish an Islamic state . . . until the Hour of Resurrection.â
Al-Zawahiri clearly fears that al-Zarqawiâs constant attacks on Shia mosques in Iraq and his beheading of hostages on video have sickened many Arabs who once showed sympathy for al-Qaeda.
The older terrorist emphasi- ses that the group would need a more political stance to take advantage of a power vacuum when the American military left Iraq.
âThings may develop faster than we imagine,â al-Zawahiri writes. âThe aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam â and how they ran and left their agents â is noteworthy. Because of that, we must be starting now, before events overtake us.â
Al-Zawahiri suggests al-Zarqawi begins to transfer some power from his foreign insurgents â âthe Islamic Mujahidinâ â to Iraqi guerillas to avoid a backlash against foreign interference in Iraqâs affairs.
He recalls how the Taleban in Afghanistan restricted their leadership to a handful of fanatical students based in Kandahar, and how quickly their support vanished when the US Army and its Afghan allies attacked in 2001.
âIn the absence of popular support, the Islamic Mujahidin movement would be crushed in the shadows, far from the masses who are distracted or fearful,â al-Zawahiri says.
He goes on to level strong personal criticism of al-Zarqawi â once a petty criminal, now a religious zealot who has personally beheaded Western hostages on video. He argues that being known as âSheikh of the Slaughterersâ could only damage al-Qaedaâs cause of winning Muslim hearts and minds for the greater cause of building a caliphate. âAmong the things which the feelings of the Muslim populace who love and support you will never find palatable are the scene of slaughtering the hostages,â he said.
Al-Zawahiri admits that the Shia brand of Islam is âbased on excess and falsehood,â but says that hacking off the heads of Shia and Western captives and blowing up Shia mosques full of civilians can only harm their cause. He suggests that shooting hostages would be a more effective means of dispatching captured foes.
âWe are in a battle, and half of that is taking place in the battlefield of the media,â he says, his tone suggesting that this was one battle that al-Zarqawi â a man bitterly hated by Iraqâs Shias, who make up 60 percent of the country, and distrusted by many ordinary Sunnis â is fast losing.
US officials will not say when the letter was seized but events on the ground tend to corroborate its contents. An Iraqi guerrilla from Fallujah recently told The Times that his group had removed all scenes of gruesome beheadings from their underground recruitment videos, fearing it would alienate potential fighters revolted by al-Zarqawiâs methods of spreading terror.
Arab security officials in neighbouring states fear that al-Zarqawiâs supporters _â a mixture of former Saddam Hussein loyalists and non-Iraqi holy warriors â are already spreading across their borders.
âAl-Qaeda, with all its groups and sub-groups, has managed to infiltrate our surroundings, and is present in all Arab societies, and is moving across their borders,â said one official.
The letterâs publication by John Negroponte, the US Director of National Intelligence, comes only days before Saturdayâs referendum on Iraqâs new constitution and may have been designed to widen an apparent split between al-Qaedaâs operatives in Iraq and their local allies.
Al-Qaeda opposes any participation in the new political process, and has warned voters â Sunnis and Shias alike â to shun this weekendâs constitutional referendum or be killed. Iraqâs Sunnis, however, realize that by boycotting the January elections they handed power to the Shiites and Kurds. They want to vote on Saturday if only to reject the proposed charter. Sunni leaders have denounced death threats from al Qaeda as âmeddlingâ by foreigners in their destiny.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:14 ||
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LONDON - Iraqis may have to wait up to 10 years before their country becomes a stable democracy, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.
Despite a bloody insurgency against the Shiâite- and Kurdish-led government which has seen thousands killed, Straw said Iraq was âon trackâ to establish a democracy. âI am optimistic about Iraq, I think in 5 to 10 years we will see it becoming stable,â Straw said during a BBC television debate late on Wednesday. âI think if you compare nation-building in other situations: after the war in Europe, building up stable nations from the collapse of the Soviet Union, look at Afghanistan; I think that is a reasonable prospect.â
He said Januaryâs poll to elect an interim government and Saturdayâs referendum on a draft constitution were evidence of Iraq passing âmilestonesâ towards democracy.
Straw said Britain had no timetable for the withdrawal of its 8,500 troops in Iraq. âThere is no date set, but we all hope it can be completed in a matter of a very limited number of years,â he said. âI profoundly believe we have to see this through.â
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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Hamas, the militant and political group in the Palestinian Territories have said that they win the Palestinian Authority Parliamentary election, they would ban men and women dancing together and will strip gay men and women of the few rights they have in the territory that they have at present. Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, the groups leader in Gaza, in an article on an Arabic website condemned the rights that gays have in Israel and made it clear that he thinks that gays are perverts. âAre these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?â He asked on the Elaph website.
Waiting for cries of outrage from US gay rights groups...........
Similarly, he said that if his group won the parliamentary elections he would seek to turn the secular authority, which has Christian, Atheist and Jewish citizens in addition to Muslims, into an Islamic Republic.
Dr. Zahar said that men and women would no longer be able to dance together in public, âA man holds a woman by the hand and dances in front of everyone. Does that serve the national problem? If so, why have corruption and prostitution become pervasive?â
He also stated that Hamas would gradually seek a withdrawal from the peace settlement with Israel. âIsrael is not our God. It was defeated, and those who are defeated cannot set conditions.â
Despite the impression that Dr. Zahar made, homosexuality is officially illegal in the Palestinian Authority and can result in long prison sentences or a death sentence if authorised by the President. Israel remains the only country in the Middle East to declare homosexuality as legal and is reportedly moving towards a civil partnership scheme that will benefit gay couples.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/13/2005 12:54 ||
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Yeah, I'll bet Doc Mahmoud don't know anything about that homosexual stuff.
Do ya doc?
This month's suicide bombings on Indonesia's island are a reminder that Muslim nations must unite against extremists "who are distorting the teachings of Islam," Jordan's King Abdullah II said Wednesday. Islamic terrorists militants have launched several attacks in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, and in Jordan in recent years.
Abdullah made his remarks after meeting with Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Both leaders are heralded in the West for being champions of religious taqiya moderation. "We reaffirmed the importance of working together to defeat the scourge of terrorism that Indonesia and Jordan have suffered," Abdullah told reporters at a news conference. "The malicious attacks in Bali are a reminder that we need to unite in the struggle to defeat ignorant extremists who follow distort the teaching of Islam."
The Oct. 1 bombings on three crowded restaurants on the resort island killed 23 people, including the three attackers. They have been blamed on the Al Qaeda linked Jemaah Islamiyah terror network, which is also accused in three other attacks in Indonesia since 2002.
Yudhoyono said that Indonesia was working to empower liberal Islamic leaders to deprive terrorists militants of support, as well as stepping up police and intelligence efforts to smash their networks. "We want to maintain the moderate forces of our social life," Yudhoyono said. "We are doing this, but it is an unfinished agenda."
More than 80 percent of Indonesia's 220 million people are Muslims. Most practice a broadly tolerant version of the faith tinged with remnants of Hindu and animist rituals, which predate Islam in the archipelago.
October 13, 2005: One of the radical new weapons the U.S. Army expects to have in the next decade is the ARV (Armed Robotic Vehicle). This will be a 10-ton tracked or wheeled armored vehicle, for use either in combat or reconnaissance missions. Like much of the new military technology that has appeared of late, this one will show up gradually, piece by piece, feature by feature. To that end, BAE systems has developed, with their own money, the Armed Robotic Demonstrator (ARD), this is a system that provides a remote control system for an armored vehicle. In this case, an M-2 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle was used.
The control unit is like a game console controller, with small video display built in. Via this display, the VRD operator can see what the Bradleyâs Commander's Independent Viewer (a video thermal sight system) can see. In this way, the operator can control the Bradley and some of its weapons. The operator can drive the Bradley down a dangerous road , or into a risky part of town, and look around, without risking the lives of any troops. This may become a standard piece of equipment for Bradleys, but it is also the first step on the way towards developing an ARV. The next step in the ARV project is the incorporation of robotic driving systems, so the vehicle can find its own way from one place to another. Much progress has been made in this technology in the last few years.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/13/2005 11:08 ||
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I, for one, welcome our new robot IFVs.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/13/2005 12:50 Comments ||
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Add the software from the recent DARPA race so they don't need remote operators except to approve targets.
#3
I would like to see DARPA create another robotic vehicle competition. This one involves programming D9s to scrape a town or small city from one location to another, preservation of building integrity or human life is not necessary.
Killdozer 2006! Enter your team today.
Posted by: DO ||
10/13/2005 13:43 Comments ||
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DO: Would that be the Rachel Corey Memorial Prize competition?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/13/2005 15:14 Comments ||
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I think the real objective of the DARPA prize is to replicate was is sometimes called "horse and rider".
That is, if you look at a tracked vehicle, it has as a minimum, two people: a driver and a commander. The driver has to concentrate on driving, and the commander tells him where to go. (Much like a horse knows where to put its feet, but its rider tells the horse where to go.)
In this case, the robotic brain takes over from the driver, and the commander directs the vehicle remotely, through a different system. By splitting the two tasks, you improve efficiency. The remote commander spends his time doing long-range navigation, identifying targets and engaging targets, and coordinating with other commanders.
DAMASCUS: Syria's regime is quietly preparing for the possibility that a UN investigation will implicate it in a Lebanese leader's murder consolidating its power, preparing a public relations counteroffensive and even taking steps to guard against possible tough sanctions. The moves are viewed by many opposition figures and analysts as a sign that the regime, while not very popular, is determined to stay in power even if a UN investigation implicates it in the killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri. Many Syrians, however, wonder how long the regime can last, especially if the probe's findings, due to be released by Oct 25, hit close to home. Some believe President Bashar Assad would turn over officers who served in Lebanon during Syria's 29-year military presence there if the report offers irrefutable evidence of their involvement. But most believe he would stop at handing over family members. "The family is a red line," said Joshua Landis, a University of Oklahoma professor who is spending the year in Damascus as a Fulbright scholar.
"There's no doubt about that." Despite gloating by some Syrians about the regime's current troubles, most believe it can survive, whatever happens. A weak opposition, and the fact that any revolt would likely be seen as spearheaded by the United States, lead many Syrians and analysts to believe the regime is safe for now. Many Syrians feel the United States caused a disaster when it invaded neighbouring Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein, leading to a bloody insurgency. "Syrians do not want to have the same fate as Iraqis," said Yassin Haj Saleh, an outspoken dissident. "One of the regime's strongest points is the weakness of the Iraq model." "Had that model succeeded," he added, "there would have been less hostility toward America and what it could offer." But some say the danger to the regime could come from within from someone seizing power in a bloodless palace coup that would keep the minority Alawites in power.
Visitors who have seen Assad recently report he is relaxed, upbeat and confident the investigation will not find any criminal evidence against his country in the Feb 14 Beirut bombing that killed Hariri and 20 others. But he recently told Jihad Al-Khazen, a senior columnist for the London-based, pan-Arab daily Al Hayat, that some countries may try to "politicise" the probe to step up the pressure on Syria. He said if that happens, Syria will be targeted because the ultimate aim of those countries, which he did not name but are believed to include the United States is Iran. Syria is Iran's closest Arab ally. "What we are seeing is an attempt to weaken (Iran's) allies or alienate them," he told Al-Khazen. Analysts say that, mindful of the sensitivity of the next few weeks, Damascus is working on two tracks. On the first track, it projects a facade of confidence and nonchalance.
Officials reach out to investors, the Cabinet discusses issues not relevant to its predicament, such as violence against children, and the country has put out more than 20 TV serials for Ramadan, the fasting month. "Syria wants to show it has time to think about such issues," said analyst Ayman Abdel-Nour. On the other track, the regime is preparing for the possibility the report will implicate Syria. Syria is reportedly planning a diplomatic offensive to discredit the report, which would include reaching out to China, India and Russia to help block a UN resolution and possible sanctions against it. Damascus will also likely use US allies Egypt and Saudi Arabia as channels for a deal with Washington. Abdel-Nour said the regime is also consolidating the power of the ruling Baath party, the only tool it has to defend itself. Economically, the government is bracing for possible troubles ahead, Syria's minister of economy, Amer Lutfi said.
He did not say what measures are being taken but stressed Syria has achieved "food security." Dennis Ross, a former US Middle East mediator, said the Bush administration's response will depend on whether the blame goes to the top of the regime, or to less-senior Syrian officials who acted on their own. Either way, he said, Syria will have to do more than Libya did in the case of the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am airliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270 people turning over a couple of suspects. "It's in Syria's interest to remove any cloud, any stigma, any questioning about where it's coming from, and what it's doing," said Ross. That would include reassessing its policies on Iraq, and its links with militant Palestinians and with the Iranian-backed Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah, which Washington brands as terrorist. "These cards have not exactly given Syria a very strong hand," said Ross. "The more the regime has tried to play the cards, the weaker they've become."
Posted by: DanNY ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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Dennis Ross, a former US Middle East mediator, said the Bush administration's response will depend on whether the blame goes to the top of the regime, or to less-senior Syrian officials who acted on their own.
Despite dealing with M.E. shit for all this time, it's good to see that Ross has kept his sense of humor. It's obviously indispensible in maintaining one's sanity.
#2
I have some questions that all the knowledgable RB's may know, as everything I read seems to conflict some. Some bios' on Bin Laden paint him as an outcast among his own half-brothers, as his mother was an Alawite from Latakia. Saudi Arabs are the superior race and no one would play with him on the playground. He went to the coast every summer with her to visit family and his first wife, a cousin, also from there. What happened to her when he went to Afghanistan? Who are all the relatives? He also apparently inquired once about living on a nearby lake he enjoyed. The familial ties are political, so wouldn't that give him potential allies within the ruling government in Syria? Hariri wouldn't fit into UBL's austere vision and would need to be disposed of before extending into Iraq's neighbors. Zawahiri and son Saad, apparently in Iran, would be another connection to Syria besides Hezbollah. Also, Bin Laden apparently spent time as a young man in Beirut, as did Imad Mugniyeh, where he sowed a few wild oats before becoming disgusted with their decadence. If this all true, I hope they probe a lot deeper into Syrian affairs.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 16:50 ||
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From the article: General Hamid Gul maintained that during the initial phase of the crisis, Pakistan was isolated and left in the lurch by countries such as the United States, for whom Pakistan has been the frontline state against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.
âIt was humiliating that the US announced only 50 million dollars in aid and sent only eight helicopters. Now the US and Europe are more active but it is again in their interests because if the crisis gets worse then their man - that is General Musharraf - would not be able to maintain his power,â Gul asserted.
âTraditionally China has always been active in such crises but since we were too much on the side of the US, in this crisis whatever they have done has been half hearted.â Soon after Saturday's quake, China announced 6.2 million dollars in relief goods together with a 50-member expert team to deal with the recue efforts.
"We claimed that we took Saudi Arabia in confidence while talking to Israel. However Saudi Arabia publicly rejected this claim and now they have also maintained a distance in this time of crisis," said the retired general. "However, I tell you that massive aid will come from Saudi Arabia but silently. I know Saudi rulers, in this human crisis they would restrain themselves from helping Pakistan but eventually, massive help will come from Saudi Arabia but silently as this is their way."
Following the quake, Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz has ordered that an air bridge be established with Pakistan to ensure an uninterrupted supply of relief goods, including ambulances, tents, medicines, and clothes.
"However, the issue is the post-earthquake scenario in which the inefficiencies of Musharrafâs government will be uncovered and the crisis has a potential to turn the tables on the present set-up,â Gul concluded.
Easy for Hamid Gul to sit on the sidelines and criticize Musharraf. Probably easy to do. The bottom line is that plans and government assets for disaster response and relief have to be worked out, practiced, and staged BEFORE the disaster. The Pak government is no different than the Iranian, Bangla, Indonesian, and other 3rd world governments. Their pitiful responses will further undermine those regimes that are not prepared. The question is: what will replace them? I do not see anything better on the horizon. Caliphate, heh, what a joke. This whole thing is run by oil money, esp handouts to countries like Pakistan. It is a house of cards. There are lessons to be learned from the stories of the Three Little Pigs and the Little Red Hen, but them are Infidel Stories, and are unsuitable for True Believers, heh heh. Have a nice Jihad.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2005 21:27 Comments ||
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don't forget the JDAM part of three little pigs, infidel version, AP
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2005 21:51 Comments ||
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#3
It is a house of cards. There are lessons to be learned from the stories of the Three Little Pigs and the Little Red Hen, but them are Infidel Stories, and are unsuitable for True Believers, heh heh. Have a nice Jihad.
..and Winnie the Poo and his buddy piglet.
There's truth in that medicine Paul, LOL!
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/13/2005 21:51 Comments ||
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#4
Sorry, Frank, I forgot about the JDAM in the updated version of the Three Little Pigs. Blows that story all to hell, eh?
Best quote (or paraphrase) from Winnie the Poo, after they keep going by the sandpit:
The sandpit keeps following us, I think we are lost.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2005 22:33 Comments ||
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Alongside the numerous documents posted on Islamist websites on how to prepare various types of explosives, "An Encyclopedia for the Preparation of Nuclear Weapons" has recently appeared on such websites. The "Encyclopedia" was posted on October 6, 2005 on the Islamist forum Al-Firdaws [1] ("Paradise"), by someone whose nom de guerre is Layth Al-Islam ("The Lion of Islam"). A link to a slightly different version appeared on October 9 in a Yahoo! discussion group called " mujahedon." [2]
The "Encyclopedia," which contains nine lessons in approximately 80 pages in Arabic, was published under the title "The Nuclear Bomb of Jihad and the Way to Enrich Uranium" and was presented as "a gift to the commander of the Jihad fighters, Sheikh Osama bin Laden, for the purpose of Jihad for the sake of Allah."
The "Encyclopedia" was published as "a scientific research by Jihad Fighter No. 1," who wrote: "For the past two years, I have been studying nuclear physics through various scientific forums and Jihadist forums. Similarly, I have been studying the technology of missiles and various types of explosives and explosive devices.
"I believe that the strategic balance of Jihad fighters from a military point of view cannot change without proper scientific progress. However, this kind of progress, along with the [necessary] experiments, require laboratories. Therefore, my brother the Jihad fighter, I have tried to present experiments that are simple and within your capabilities, or, as is commonly said, [that can be conducted] in the kitchen."
Yeah, that's going to be fun
The "Encyclopedia," states:
"Perhaps nuclear weapons represent a technology of the 1940s. However, the Crusaders â the allies of Satan, Allah's curse be upon them â insist upon depriving the Jihad fighters of the right to [have] these weapons. But now the Jihad fighters have acquired technological skills that enable them, with Allah's help, to understand this [nuclear weapons] technology. Thus, they are able to make a major leap forward in producing this kind of strategic weapon, even in the kitchens of their homes.
"What is important now [to recall] is that the nuclear device is a bomb with special qualities, which requires means for its transportation to its final goal â whether it be carried by an airplane or a missile. Hence, it is very important to acquire knowledge about missiles as a means of carrying and launching.
"I shall begin, with Allah's help, with a number of lessons, starting with the clarification of the idea, until we reach the [stage of] experimentation and implementation, with the support of Allah's might."
The nine lessons that follow the introduction include a historical survey of the development of nuclear science, explanations about natural radioactivity, the nuclear qualities of certain materials, critical mass, the construction of nuclear weapons, and the extraction of radium.
The "Encyclopedia" opens with Koranic verse 9:14 -15: "Fight them so that Allah will punish them at your hands and will put them to shame and will give you victory over them, and will heal the hearts of a believing people, and will remove the anger of their hearts. Allah forgives whoever he wishes, for Allah is omniscient and wise."
Posted by: Steve ||
10/13/2005 11:00 ||
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The CIA should have slipped (incorrect) guides to building nukes and dirty bombs out there long ago. Design them so that whomever is working anywhere near them doesn't take the right precautions and preferably blows themselves up in the process.
Like that old Mash episode. Cut the red wire, but first...
#2
Sounds like a "How to hack computers" guide from 1991. I bet legions of young Muslim men are going to jerk off furiously while reading this claptrap. Like anyone can make nuclear weapons in the kitchen. Really.
#3
I invented kitchen built atomic devices. For ozone monitoring, of course, but like my other invention, the Internet, it could be perverted to Republican Free Speech weapons construction.
Posted by: Al Gore ||
10/13/2005 12:10 Comments ||
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According to the 2-14-05 copy of Time mag, a rudimentary nuke can be made with an artillery tube and nuke material. Dual-use technology can be used to detonate either a bomb or a kidney stone. The EU and CIA projection of years away before Iran could develop one assumed too much while overlooking that there is stolen material and freebie info floating around.
#12
a rudimentary nuke can be made with an artillery tube and nuke material.
Significant engineering is involved in the manufacture of gun type weapons. The weapons grade uranium 235 required is not readily available.
If it were, Kaddaffi would have bought some. Saddam would have bought some (and still be around), Iran would have bought some.
In the period prior to the NPT, several contries tried to become nuclear powers. Most failed, including some with signicant techiccal resources (Australia, Brazil, Argentina).
These weapons are clearly NOT easy to build.
Dual-use technology can be used to detonate either a bomb or a kidney stone
Spark gap triggers are used in lithotripters and in implosion type weapons (as constructed by rogue nations like Pakistan). These are far more sophisticated and way beyond the capability of even some countries.
Let us look at the evidence. There have been nation states like Iraq that tried for a decade to build atomic weapons. There was all the resources of an entire country : the best physicists in the universities, the best engineers, vast resources from the treasury, a secret service that could steal technology etc. A state, able to purcase things like weapon technology that individuals cannot. A state with cargo ships and transport aircraft.
A decade and unlimited resources was not enough for a country but terrorist groups can build or buy such weapons?
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 15:04 Comments ||
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John,
Commentary on the money.
The nuclear weapons construction game for the Poor Man's Robert Oppenheimer basically has two dilemmas:
1. Gun-type: Easy to make the bomb, but where are you going to get all of that enriched uranium?
2. Implosion: Needs much less fissile material (plutonium), but needs a great deal of engineering ability to manufacture.
I suspect dreaming about nuclear weapons is what jihadis do in lieu of playing Dungeons and Dragons.
"Mahmood, I'll hit your Infidel Crusader with a +12 Fermi nuclear blast."
"Ha, Achmed! My Crusader has used his +13 Inviso-Jew Shield to thwart to you."
#15
I doubt that even a gun type weapon is that easy to build. Before signing the NPT, Sweden had a secret weapon program, run by the defence ministry and several large industrial concerns - SAAB, Bofors etc. It was eventually discovered by members of parliament and shut down.
Now Bofors builds some of the best howitzers around. They know more about artillery tubes than most. Swedish companies make advanced explosives. Their engineering is superb. Sweden posesses advanced nuclear technology. Their neighbor Norway was making Heavy water during WW2.
The secret programme ran for a few years yet even a gun type weapon was not produced in time. I would assume nuclear material was not a problem in the period prior to the NPT.
I think we are seriously underestimating the difficulty in making an atomic bomb.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 16:38 Comments ||
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#16
And the examples of Pakistan and North Korea may not be relevant. Neither nation can even fabricate a bicycle (the first plant for bicyles has just opened in NoKo with chinese technology) yet claims nuclear tech. The documents from Libya showed that the Chinese supplied the weapon designs to Pakistan. They in turn proleferated to Noko and Iran (and possibly Saudi).
Neither has sent even a soccer ball into space yet claims to develop ICBM technology.
Pakistan was unable to develop nukes without Chinese help (including detailed info on how to machine parts shown on blueprints).
NoKo needed the Chinese designs, via Pak.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 16:45 Comments ||
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#17
May 28, 1998
If a backwater like pakistan can do it, anybody can. Or did they just borrow a Chinese nuke to test?
#18
UA4390---I remember reading that the ChiComs helped the Pacs a lot.
It is going to take some work to concentrate enough U235 for the gun weapon, and get it pure enough to use and form into the necessary two main shapes to create the weapon. Best way is to buy it. Going to have to know enough not to be ripped off. Even the Russian Mafia does not want to have the finger pointed at them if they sold some U235 to some nutjobs. Delivery will be an issue, as it will be heavy, if you want one to have a yield and be more than just a dirty bomb. There is some great research waiting for those willing to learn and be willing to put up with some serious work accidents.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2005 18:49 Comments ||
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#19
Swedish companies make advanced explosives.
Wasn't Alfred Nobel a Swede? :)
Their engineering is superb.
That it is. I have an old Garcia Ambassadeur fishing reel that's about thirty years old, but it works as smooth as silk as it did the day I bought it.
#20
So do we believe they have another? Or a reliable delivery system? Or is pretending they do a way to prop up Perv instead of the ISI and keep India worried and looking for friends?
The United States wants to search foreign ships far outside its territorial waters to stop a possible terrorist attack on the country coming from the sea, a US coastguard leader said on Wednesday. "If the threat is significant enough we will board that ship as far from our coast as we can," said Vice Admiral Harvey Johnson who is Pacific Area commander of the US coastguard.
Johnson, who oversees key trade routes with Asia, told a maritime security conference in Copenhagen the policy of the United States was to "push back" its sea borders for searches as much as possible -- perhaps by as much as 2000 nautical miles.
In August Washington said it planned to put sensors on oil rigs and weather buoys to spot security threats at sea and said it might use satellites to track suspect vessels.
Johnson said that, from an intelligence perspective, there was ample justification to worry about a terrorist threat. "And I believe the maritime sphere will be the avenue for that threat," he said.
He said if the threat level from an incoming foreign-flagged ship was deemed to be low the United States might choose to board and search it closer to home, perhaps within its own territorial waters at 12 miles. But he said he would like to be able to carry out forced searches much further from shore.
Governments require permission from the flag-state to board a ship in international waters, where it is seen as sovereign territory, or risk a diplomatic row. Nations would have to agree a new legal framework to allow countries to inspect or board ships outside their own territorial waters.
"I don't intend any sabre-rattling here. I'm talking from an operations perspective," he told Reuters. "I'm not trying to bring any undue international pressure to get permission to board without flag-state approval. What I do want though is enough time to interdict the vessel," he said. "Even if I did decide to board a vessel at sea, even as a three star admiral I couldn't make that decision, it goes back to Washington and it doesn't all happen in 15 seconds."
Johnson said the exact parameters would be worked out with partners at a global level and within the framework of international laws of the sea. The man has common sense and is trying to protect us. Rooters, of course, wants to make it into a Big Deal in hopes of stirring up some anti-US outrage. It must rankle them that they failed to bait him into saying something incendiary or outrageous. This approach makes good security sense. Fuck Rooters.
#2
The realization has been there all along. What has taken time has been to design, build and prepare to deploy those "sensors on oil rigs and weather buoys" - among other places. It's useless - and incendiary - to start pressing the other countries to allow searches before we are ready to id the ships we think are sufficiently threatening to demand this sort of action far out at sea.
As the article notes, we are asking for a major change in the law of the sea. That's the sort of thing for which you get your ducks lined up first ....
One other thing: just because we don't see public action on a security threat doesn't mean the threat isn't taken seriously.
I'm not saying ALL potential security risks are automatically covered despite no obvious action .... no doubt there are some that just are lower priority or have to be postponed due to limited people, funds, technology. I am saying, however, that a lot of work is going into a lot of things to address the most pressing threats. Witness the casual mention of bio-sniffers on the Mall during the anti-war protest a few weeks ago - how many of Americans even knew we had both developed these in a major R&D thrust and then deployed them in some key places???
Lots of people are working very hard on these issues.
#3
Just use the old 'boarding to suppress the commerce of slaving' excuse. Seemed to have been more than a couple of ships that grounded carrying lots of illegals, who are all too often exploited in defacto slaving conditions.
#5
This is far too great a distance for a container nuke--my guess is a tramp converted into a missile platform. Remember that the Norks are fond of moving missiles by sea, and it wouldn't take a huge tech leap to mount a launcher in the hold.
Wanted: Video editors, writers, and webmasters to help Al Qaeda spread its message. Contact: The Global Islamic Media Front via e-mail.
It sounds unlikely, but such messages have appeared on radical Islamist Internet sites in the past week. They are just the latest sign of Al Qaeda's increasing sophistication in communications that is allowing the terrorist network to expand its universe of sympathizers around the world.
Prior to 9/11, only a handful of extremist websites existed. Now there are thousands of increasingly sophisticated sites offering everything from chat rooms to videos of beheadings as well as in-depth instructions on kidnapping, bomb- making, and recruiting.
Earlier this month, an Italian newspaper reported that Al Qaeda started producing what is essentially an "All Al Qaeda, All The Time" video news release, providing converts and sympathizers an Islamist perspective on the day's events.
Intelligence experts contend that these recent developments are a sign that the terrorist organization continues to evolve, thrive, and, in parts of the Muslim world, maintain the upper hand in the ideological debate, despite Washington's attempts to step up its publicity campaign.
"The implications are clearly that [Al Qaeda mastermind Osama] bin Laden is able to talk to the people who form his base of his support, and from which he'll draw more support" says Michael Scheuer, the CIA's former top Al Qaeda expert. "The one lesson that should come home more than anything else is that these people are not medievalists and anti-modern. They may be anti-Western, but they're devotees of the tools of modernity in communications and weapons."
Several experts, including Scheuer, argue that America has given "free reign" to bin Laden's increasingly successful efforts to spread his message through the Internet following his Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S. This has enabled him, these experts say, to further radicalize angry young Muslims and maintain contact with independent extremist cells around the world.
American intelligence officials, however, say they have basically isolated bin Laden, as well as his No. 2, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, and do track and disrupt some Internet communications.
For example, a letter from Dr. Zawahiri and Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda operations in Iraq, has been obtained by U.S. forces and posted on the website (www.dni.gov) of the director of national intelligence.
In the letter, Zawahiri discusses other communications he sent that may have been seized and claims U.S. intelligence services have his laptop computer.
Zawahiri also admonishes his Iraqi compatriots to remember that "more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media."
Intelligence experts compare the current battle of Internet-spread ideas to a political campaign where one side, in this case the US, allows its opponent, Al Qaeda, to define the terms of the debate and sway voters.
"[The terrorists] appear, and we've let them fill this vacuum that's the Internet without any push back," says Bruce Hoffman, an expert on terrorism at the RAND Corp. in Washington. "This has not been like a political campaign where immediately there's some response and an effort to take their message and spin it in a different direction."
But that may be changing. Besides the publication of the Zawahiri letter, in a speech last week, President Bush appeared to signal a new understanding of the importance of attacking Al Qaeda in the field of ideas. He aggressively assailed its "ideology of hatred," challenging basic tenets of the terrorist organization's claim to spiritual and political superiority over the West.
Bush said that "Islamic radicalism, like the ideology of communism, contains inherent contradictions that doom it to failure," and he compared Islamist extremism to fascism.
Experts say that the Bush administration has much further to go, though. "We may be setting up new TV and radio stations, and that's fine, but ... they're getting their information from the Internet," says Mr. Hoffman.
Other intelligence analysts agree and add that the Internet gives Al Qaeda and its terrorist allies unprecedented tools in waging their battle.
"The Internet gives them direct access," says Brian Jenkins, an expert on terrorism at RAND Corp. in Santa Monica. "It even allows them to segment their audiences so they can communicate with potential recruits, with those who are already in the organization, and with broader sympathetic audiences as well as their enemy. They can do ... modern marketing and these communications have enabled them to be very, very effective and they've been increasingly adept in exploiting this. I don't think we have yet fully fathomed the sophistication of their communication strategy."
That presents a daunting challenge for the West, experts say, because of the depth of frustration and alienation from the West in parts of the Muslim world.
"We're talking decades before a kid who's willing to strap a suicide bomb around his belly will say, 'Maybe I shouldn't do that,' " says former intelligence official MacGaffin.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:29 ||
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#1
Just emulating their other heroes, Goebbels, Riefenstahl, et al.
And they'll find the tech help they need as well as followers. You can "sell" anything to someone. Doesn't matter what it is, there's always someone out there who'll buy.
#3
Or don't care where your next meal ticket comes from, lol.
Stupid me, I need to replace a couple of kitchen items, but I refuse to buy anything made in China - and the only alternative for this sort of item (cookware) seems to be outrageously expensive French stuff. So I keep looking, lol.
#5
It would be nice if Al Quaida servers could be permanently hijacked and made to carry messages spreading dissenssion and doubt between jihadists. Would be fun to have fake fatwa causing the assassination of Zarkawi. Problem: to get a guy who knows classic Arabic well enough.
The influx of U.S. aid to earthquake-ravaged Pakistan -- signified by yesterday's unscheduled stop in Islamabad by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice -- could have an important side benefit: improving the battered U.S. image in a critical Muslim country. U.S. officials are quick to say that the rapid reaction to the earthquake that has killed 20,000 to 40,000 people is largely due to humanitarian considerations -- as well as to a desire to reward the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, for his support of U.S. interests despite two assassination attempts. "Musharraf is a friend and hero in our eyes," said one senior U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the issue more freely. "There is a clear and unmistakable signal being sent that we help our friends."
Stability in Pakistan, the only Islamic country with a nuclear weapon and the most crucial ally in tracking the elusive al Qaeda leadership, is critical to U.S. interests in South Asia. The official, noting that U.S. aid is also flowing to Central America after the devastating floods there, said that the administration is not acting to "curry favor with hostile Muslim populations." But, he added, "if there is a positive impact for the United States, so much the better." As another U.S. official put it: "If this helps us show that Abu Ghraib is not reflective of the American character, that would be good."
Rice, who is on a tour of Central Asia and Afghanistan, held talks with Musharraf and Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz during her two-hour stop. The Bush administration is assembling a task force to examine what more can be done to stabilize Pakistan down the road, she told reporters traveling with her. "The devastation is quite extraordinary," Rice said, adding that the initial $50 million in U.S. aid will be followed by more assistance in the coming months. "The international community will have to be mobilized to help with ongoing rescue efforts, as well as the long-term recovery and reconstruction."
The model for using a humanitarian disaster to leverage public opinion is the Indian Ocean tsunami relief effort earlier this year. Though the administration was criticized for an initially slow response to that disaster -- which killed more than 200,000 people -- the U.S. government has now committed nearly $1 billion, with private donations topping that. Polling has indicated that the U.S. tsunami effort -- which included sending a fleet of ships and providing round-the-clock helicopter rescues -- has paid dividends to the United States' image in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country. A survey of 1,200 Indonesians one month after the tsunami, sponsored by Terror Free Tomorrow and conducted by a leading Indonesian pollster, found that, for the first time, more Indonesians (40 percent) supported the U.S. terrorism fight than opposed it (36 percent). Sixty-five percent of those surveyed had a more favorable impression of the United States, with support strongest among those younger than 30, while support for Osama bin Laden dropped from 58 percent before the tsunami to 23 percent. Terror Free Tomorrow is a nonpartisan group that studies popular support for global terrorism.
Husain Haqqani, director of the Center for International Relations at Boston University and an adviser to Terror Free Tomorrow, said the experience in Indonesia could easily be replicated in Pakistan. Haqqani, a former adviser to several Pakistani political leaders, said that anti-American Islamic groups have begun to realize this and have opposed the U.S. aid because "this may take the wind out of their sails." But Haqqani said the U.S. effort to prop up Musharraf with the relief effort is unlikely to succeed. He said hard questions are already being asked about the faltering response of the Pakistani military, which Musharraf controls. Moreover, he said, much of the $1 billion in annual U.S. aid that Pakistan receives is perceived as going toward buying F-16 fighter planes and toward supporting the state, not the common people. "The man in the street has not been the beneficiary of the U.S. aid" in the past, so credit for the disaster relief will flow to the United States, not to Musharraf for fostering good relations with Washington, Haqqani said.
The U.S. government has so far provided eight helicopters -- and appears on track to provide 30 more -- and three field hospitals, one official said. Rice said she will take Pakistan's earthquake assistance requests to Europe at week's end to help coordinate Western relief. She will hold talks with the British and French governments between Friday and Sunday. Britain holds the rotating presidency of the European Union.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:21 ||
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Earthquake aid may help US with support in Pakistan
yep, just like da mayor & friends in Nawlens.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/13/2005 1:59 Comments ||
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In the Pakistani mindset, aid from America is not a gift to be thankful for. It is a birthright.
There will be no gratitude. They will accept the money and curse America at the same time.
Read this short excerpt from a 1949 book by Margaret Bourke-White.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 6:42 Comments ||
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""America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America," was Jinnah's reply. "Pakistan is the pivot of the world, as we are placed" -- he revolved his long forefinger in bony circles -- "the frontier on which the future position of the world revolves." He leaned toward me, dropping his voice to a confidential note. "Russia," confided Mr. Jinnah, "is not so very far away."
This had a familiar ring. In Jinnah's mind this brave new nation had no other claim on American friendship than this - that across a wild tumble of roadless mountain ranges lay the land of the BoIsheviks. I wondered whether the Quaid-i-Azam considered his new state only as an armored buffer between opposing major powers. He was stressing America's military interest in other parts of the world. "America is now awakened," he said with a satisfied smile. Since the United States was now bolstering up Greece and Turkey, she should be much more interested in pouring money and arms into Pakistan. "If Russia walks in here," he concluded, "the whole world is menaced."
In the weeks to come I was to hear the Quaid-i-Azam's thesis echoed by government officials throughout Pakistan. "Surely America will build up our army," they would say to me. "Surely America will give us loans to keep Russia from walking in." But when I asked whether there were any signs of Russian infiltration, they would reply almost sadly, as though sorry not to be able to make more of the argument. "No, Russia has shown no signs of being interested in Pakistan."
This hope of tapping the U. S. Treasury was voiced so persistently that one wondered whether the purpose was to bolster the world against Bolshevism or to bolster Pakistan's own uncertain position as a new political entity. Actually, I think, it was more nearly related to the even more significant bankruptcy of ideas in the new Muslim state -- a nation drawing its spurious warmth from the embers of an antique religious fanaticism, fanned into a new blaze.
Jinnah's most frequently used technique in the struggle for his new nation had been the playing of opponent against opponent. Evidently this technique was now to be extended into foreign policy. ...."
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 6:46 Comments ||
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#4
Excellent insights there - Thx, john! The woman certainly could write - and her analysis seems spot-on. Stillborn would be one way of viewing the reality of the dream.
#6
Her analysis was incredibly perceptive. The state she described in 1949 is the Pakistan of 2005.
The day Jinnah died in a broken down ambulance at the side of the road could be yesterday.
Before partition there was the call to jihad and the mass killings.
The first prime minister Liqiat Ali Khan blackmailed the West (and India) with the threat of the muslim radicals and their jihad.
"Apres moi le deluge"
Successive Pakistani rulers have used the same tactic.
Almost sixty years later, the desire to dismember India is still there. "Give us Kashmir". Only with a fragmented India could the desire for muslim domination of the subcontinent be expressed: Pakistan and its army running roughshod over small client states, each one surrendering to dhimmitude.
The sheer incompetence of the administration is still there. The Pak government might as well be still occupying buildings in Karachi. Their praetorian state is incapable of managing natural disaters.
They failed abjectly in the 1971 cyclone. They are failing now.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 7:17 Comments ||
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#7
Yep. Gratitude is one of the more pronounced characteristics of Muhammad's followers.
#8
"The state she described in 1949 is the Pakistan of 2005."
Spot on. The only differences I can see is that they "acquired" nukes (which is a whole 'nother discussion) and figured out a way to become important enough, because Bush didn't pursue lame $10M missiles fired at empty tents policies, to crawl into America's pockets to pilfer some scratch. What a pathetic lot.
They are, simultaneously, the one "state" it's easiest to imagine becoming smokin' glass-lined craters and, yet, the one "state" that I'm not sure how I'd choose to handle - if the choice was mine and I had to act within reality - beyond trying to seal them off and promote the idea that they kill and eat each other. Sigh.
#9
Yeah, Bush, Condi & Co. will still be dreaming of eternal friendship ... right upto the point when the I*****c b**bs go off in several friendly US cities near you ... honestly, do they breed politicians for stupidity or does it just come natural?
#12
"In the Pakistani mindset, aid from America is not a gift to be thankful for. It is a birthright.
There will be no gratitude. They will accept the money and curse America at the same time."
They are so diabolically schizoid! They accepted American 5-8 helicopters but refused India's. They also accepted American investments through BCCI to finance their nukes, only to turn them over to Iran and NK to use on us. I think we need to put some contingencies on our aid and at least insert some agents into the area for a little look-see for Binny.
#13
Here is an Amazon link to buy her book -- 1 used, 2 new, pricey but it's 50 years old, after all.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2005 11:10 Comments ||
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Hint: if you buy thru this link, I believe Fred gets a little change in the ol' tip jar. In fact, if you enter Amazon thru the tip jar link on the front page, Fred gets a piece of whatever you're shopping for. I think.
#15
Following 9/11 with H.E. President George Bush giving a "you are with us or against us" proposition, Musharaff had no other option but to cooperate with US in its war against islamic terror. Musharaff in his address to his nation on 19 January 2001 says "...Pakistan's failure to cooperate with United States in a military attack against Afghanistan would damage its strategic assets, including its nuclear capability and a fledgling missile program...". He goes on to lament "...Our decisions at this time in history could have grave and far-reaching consequences. Our survival could be endangered..." Therefore Musharaff partnering the civilized world in its war against islamic terror is only tactical. For all one knows he might be running with the hare and hunting with the hound! With him, we should be prepared for any eventuality even if we have to erase him along with his countrymen.
Posted by: Prof. Alex Wordsmith ||
10/13/2005 11:40 Comments ||
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#16
I have no doubts, whatsoever, that Bush & Co are fully aware of Pervy's motives.
Let's try the opposite approach...
Why is it, I wonder, that people think they get it, but poor little President Bush doesn't? His record speaks volumes, his actions have been (and still are) remarkable. Where, pray-tell, would we be without him? Just roll that thought around a little and some of the compulsive ankle-biting should disappear. I find it fascinating to read those whiney IWWIWWIWI posts. Who's short-sighted, half (or far less) informed? Who can, honestly, match up against Bush in deeds? Who can honestly say he hasn't surprised the hell out of them - several times since 9/11/01?
Perfect? Nope, but then no one else is either - and I can see none who would've even tried, much less done, a fraction of what he has. I don't love the guy, but I sure as hell respect his brass and, in retrospect, his vision thingy. The bummer, as always, is that he's got to work within reality - a set of constraints that we don't have - and know little or nothing about. Both big thinkers and small thinkers, owe this man and his team a debt of gratitude. Fuck 'em if they can't see it or acknowledge it. Petty pussies are a dime a dozen. Those who reshape history, on the other hand, are not. We're some very lucky mofo's.
#19
IWWIWWIWI = I Want What I Want When I Want It.
The warcry of the Three Yr Old on a binge.
TE -- Lincoln was interesting. Lol, wanna discuss the suspension of habeas corpus during the NY Draft Riots? Don't misunderstand me, I know Lincoln was a class act. He faced very serious dangers and met them head on - improvising along the way, changing the rules, at times, to meet extraordinary challenges. What he faced was a political crisis.
The threats we face in the modern era are actually far more dangerous - they involve physical survival, not just political division. Nazism, Communism, Islamism, Socialism, and the Golden Dragon (an ism of mixed fuckwit parentage) is right around the corner. The old methods (due to the lethality of weaponry, for example) won't keep us safe. Bush is taking extraordinary steps, and risks - for us, for our future. Heady stuff.
#21
Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Washington must be remembered for starters. All had very serious trouble to deal with and acquitted themselves quite well. The jury is still out on Bush and he has some time to complete his work. I'll wait before I make my call.
#23
Uphhhhhhhh. I forgot to mention the main point that I wanted to mention. In general governments of the developing nations are not known for spending the aid that they receive from donor countries entirely on the welfare of their people. They normally make use of such resources for their clandestine business which could be either siphoning off the money to their Swiss Bank accounts or make use of it for carrying on terrorist operations or both. Aid which is now raining into Pakistan, I would not be surprised if their ISI deflects a substantial portion of the "Earthquake Aid" to fund terrorist operations in neighbouring India or even Europe. Gratitude is not a virtue which one can find in Moslem countries. (Indonesia may be an exception and one wonders for how long it would remain so); more so when their rulers are not going to spend such aid on the welfare/rehabilitation of the afflicted people. The "Earthquake Aid" may only contribute to strengthening/rebuilding Islamic terror network in Pakistan and elsewhere.
Posted by: Prof. Alex Wordsmith ||
10/13/2005 13:02 Comments ||
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#24
The Pakistani's will be as grateful as the Indonesians are...
#25
Thanks again Rantburg U, excluding myself lol, the regulars here are providing the rest of us with a graduate course of the Subcontinent. [not to mention the other departments]
John, have you ever met or communicated with B Raman? He's patiently answered a couple of my E-mails.
Rantburg Graphics Division, way kool.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/13/2005 13:46 Comments ||
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#26
Really?
I must send an email. One does not get the opportunity to communicate with former spymasters often.
:-)
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 14:30 Comments ||
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#27
Interesting that in 1947 according to the Jinnah interview, Pakistan was the 5th largest nation in the world and the largest Islamic nation. Now passed on both counts by Indonesia, a much more moderate Muslim nation compared to Pakland. Wonder what happened?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/13/2005 15:24 Comments ||
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#28
John, I read an article of his about 5 years ago..so I just contacted him cold.. with my questions before I new who he was, otherwise I never would have lol!
He promptly replied, wanting to know who I was before he would answer my questions..so I told him the basics. What I did for a living..bla bla and why i was interested etc.
I don't want to just put his E-mail address here in the comments section. But I'd be happy to send it to you ..Click Red Dog..I just set this account up.
I'm sure you'll ask better questions than I did several years ago. ;)
Posted by: Red Dog ||
10/13/2005 16:15 Comments ||
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#29
I don't want to just put his E-mail address here in the comments section. But I'd be happy to send it to you
Thanks.
I have some of his older articles archived (with email address). I never thought to write him.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 17:12 Comments ||
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#30
Pakistan was the 5th largest nation in the world ... Wonder what happened?
The 1971 Indo-Pak war happened.
The dismemberment of Pakistan.
The Pakistan Army committed one of the worst genocides in the 20th century
see this short article: Genocide in Bangladesh, 1971
The driving of 10 million East Pakistanis (ethic cleaning on a massive scale) into India was too much for Indira Gandhi. She unleashed the Indian Army on Pakistan and its most populous part - the eastern wing became the country of Bangladesh.
Pakistan has never recovered from the loss of half of the country. The had to beg for the return of their POWs (90,000) without war crimes trials against them and the very act of surrender - to an army led by a Zoarastrian, with forces led by a Jew, spearheaded by Sikh regiments, oversaw by a dalit (untouchable) Hindu defence Minister and a woman brahmin Hindu Prime Minister was all too much for muslim honor and dignity.
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 17:24 Comments ||
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"Looking back, he described his 37-year career in the army as âthe happiest and most enjoyable period of my life.â Never once did he feel the sting of anti-Semitism in the Indian army. âBut I had some problems with the British,â he said, declining to elaborate. âI donât like to talk about it.â
Interestingly enough, Jacob â whose Hebrew name is Yaacov Rafael and who serves as president of New Delhiâs one and only synagogue â was not the only high-ranking Jewish officer in the armed forces. âThere was another Jewish general, a chap named Samson, and he was in research and development and ordnance. And there was also a Jewish vice-admiral.â"
"In 1941, at age 18, he enlisted in the Indian army, which was under British command. "My father was against my enlistment," he recalls, "but after I found out about the atrocities of the Nazis and their treatment of the Jews, I decided that I would be a military man." Upon his enlistment, Jacob joined an artillery brigade that was dispatched to North Africa to reinforce the British army against the German army under Field Marshal Erwin Rommel. The brigade arrived after the battles were over. From there, Jacob's unit was sent to Burma. "I wanted to fight Germans," says Jacob, "but in the end I fought for three years against the Japanese.""
Posted by: john ||
10/13/2005 20:10 Comments ||
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#33
And at age 90, the Indian Army's only living Field Marshal, Sam Manekshaw (who looks good for someone with Japanese shrapnel still in his body) - a Zoarastrian.
He was a real character
This is the guy who refused to call Indira Gandhi "Madam" as other officials did. He retorted that 'Madams ran brothels". He called her "Prime Minister"
One Indira Gandhi admonished him for drinking whiskey while debriefing her.
He retorted: "Prime minister, this is Black Dog, the same scotch that General Yahya Khan drinks. I shall outdrink him and I shall outfight him".
THE FULL TEXT of the just-released letter from al Qaeda second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri to Iraqi insurgent leader Abu Musab Zarqawi, dated July 9, 2005, makes it clear that not only are al-Zawahiri and bin Laden symbolic leaders to the global jihad, but they are still active in running their terror network, too.
The letter includes references to the fighting in Afghanistan, a peripheral acknowledgement of ongoing al Qaeda-backed insurgencies in Chechnya and Kashmir, and a discussion of the steps the network was forced to take to ensure the security of its senior leaders following the capture of senior al Qaeda leader Abu Faraj al-Libbi ("No Arab brother [Arab al Qaeda leader] was arrested because of him . . . the brothers tried--and were successful--to contain the fall of Abu al-Faraj as much as they could"). And the fact that al-Zawahiri now seeks information from Zarqawi is proof enough that he is not content to watch from the sidelines in Iraq: at several points he laments the fact that his current security arrangements prevent him from journeying to Iraq to take part in the jihad.
The letter does not suggest a man cut off from outside information ("More than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media," he notes), but rather an opponent who is intelligent enough not to believe his own propaganda (or the view of Iraq brought to him by the international media). Instead, he earnestly seeks a candid assessment of the situation on the
ground from Zarqawi, so that he can better advise him and the rest of the network on how to proceed.
Far more interesting than what al-Zawahiri reveals about his status, however, is what he reveals about al Qaeda with regard to its organization, ideology, and grand strategy. For instance, despite numerous press reports claiming some kind of animosity or rivalry between Zarqawi and the rest of the al Qaeda leadership, there is no trace of it, even in the past-tense, in al-Zawahiri's letter. All of al-Zawahiri's criticisms towards Zarqawi are phrased in a respectful and constructive manner--even his request for money is in reply to an earlier offer of assistance from Zarqawi to those he sees as his commanders.
Another point certain to pique interest is al-Zawahiri's opinion of the Iraqi Baathists ("Arab nationalists") which is rather praiseworthy and certainly reconciliatory in discussing their mutual opposition to Israel: "It is strange that the Arab nationalists also have, despite their avoidance of Islamic practice, come to comprehend the great importance of this province . . . They have come to comprehend the goal of planting Israel in this region, and they are not misled in this, rather they have admitted their ignorance of the religious nature of this conflict." This mindset of pragmatism appears again and again in the letter as al-Zawahiri urges Zarqawi not to fall into the trap of religious dogmatism, even to the point arguing that mujahideen ulema (religious scholars) must be included "even if there may be some heresy or fault in them that is not blasphemous," underscoring just how pragmatic the al Qaeda leadership is in contrast to the widespread analytical opinion that the group is made up only of dogmatists unwilling to compromise on religious or ideological purity when dealing with potential allies.
It is worth noting that this pragmatic approach is by no means a new element of al-Zawahiri's character; the 9/11 Commission Report cryptically noted that he "had ties of his own" to the former Iraqi regime and sought to arrange meetings between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government in 1998. Moreover, Western and Arab officials and analysts have long characterized al-Zawahiri as one of the key links between al Qaeda and hard-line elements of the Iranian security services.
Al-Zawahiri specifically references this link as part of his argument against Zarqawi's strategy of provoking a sectarian civil war in Iraq along Shiite-Sunni lines. After making more general criticisms of this strategy on the grounds that it alienates public opinion, multiplies the number of enemies the insurgency must defeat, and creates a strategic impossibility of wiping out the entire Iraqi Shiite population, al-Zawahiri then drops a bombshell:
And do the brothers forget that we have more than one hundred prisoners--many of whom are from the leadership who are wanted in their countries--in the custody of the Iranians? And even if we attack the Shia out of necessity, then why do you announce this matter and make it public, which compels the Iranians to take counter measures? And do the brothers forget that both we and the Iranians need to refrain from harming each other at this time in which the Americans are targeting us?
This last statement is worth examining.
For starters, it appears to confirm the view that al Qaeda leaders known to be inside Iran
are likely under extremely lax house arrest. Al-Zawahiri does not fear for these individuals' safety or bemoan their loss (in contrast, for example, to the case of Abu Faraj) as long as they remain in Iran. Rather, he appears worried that Zarqawi's sectarian campaign in Iraq will result in the Iranians taking action against al Qaeda members within their own borders. Al-Zawahiri appears to want at least a policy of non-aggression towards Iran as long as the United States is their common enemy. Given the 9/11 Commission's documentation of Iranian ties to al Qaeda, this would seem to be an issue of great concern.
The remainder of the letter focuses on al Qaeda's strategy for Iraq, including the necessity of popular support in waging successful insurgency and the preparations to fill the power gap that will be created as soon as U.S. troops are withdrawn. Long-term, al-Zawahiri envisions a series of jihads staged from al Qaeda enclaves in Iraq against Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, and the Gulf states that would ultimately culminate in the destruction of Israel. It is towards these ends that his respectful appeals to Zarqawi to end his sectarian attacks and brutal beheadings ("we can kill the captives by bullet") are based. He seems to believe that decapitations only serve to alienate the public and potential allies. This criticism is tempered with praise, however, as al-Zawahiri is clearly impressed by the fight that Zarqawi and his followers have put up in Falluja, Ramadi, and al-Qaim--which he pointedly contrasts with the lackluster performance of the Taliban during the fall of Kabul.
Far from being a collection of dogmatic fanatics, the letters suggests that al Qaeda's leadership can be pragmatic to the point of cynicism and is willing to ally with or at least engage in co-belligerency with anyone who is willing to support their cause--from Arab nationalists to heretic Shiites.
Dan Darling is a counter-terrorism consultant for the Manhattan Institute Center for Policing Terrorism.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2005 00:09 ||
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#1
When a leader of Al Quada effectively says, "Dude, you gotta stop cutting heads off on TV, people are starting to talk," you know that EVEN THEY realize they've lost the deep battle for hearts and minds.
Posted by: Dave ||
10/13/2005 8:36 Comments ||
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Dan, wow, the Weekly Standard - you're in the big leagues now. No wait, you've been on Rantburg for a long time;)
NAIROBI, Kenya - An influential religious leader and alleged Al Qaeda collaborator has vowed to establish an Islamic state in Somalia, a lawless Horn of Africa nation the United States fears could grow into a major base for Islamic terrorists. âThe Western world should respect our own ideas in choosing the way we want to govern our country, the way we want to go about our own business. That is our right,â said Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, a key figure in a growing religious camp vying for control of Somalia with two secular factions.
"We've been cuttin' off heads for a thousand years now. It's tradition!"
The United States linked Aweys to Al Qaeda shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Last week, the United Nations reported that he was arming hundreds of men to keep a Western-backed transitional government from taking power in Somalia after years of clan fighting. US officials have repeatedly expressed concern that Somalia, which has not had a central government since warlords ousted dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1992, could become an Islamic terrorist haven. Investigations have shown that terrorist attacks on Kenyan soil in 1998 and 2002 were launched from Somalia.
In other words, 'could' now is 'has'.
In a report earlier this year, the International Crisis Group, a Belgian-based think tank, said the threat of terrorism inspired by an extremist interpretation of Islam âin and from Somalia is realâ and identified Aweys as an important Islamist leader. Speaking by telephone from a mosque in northern Mogadishu, Somaliaâs capital, Aweys said Wednesday that allegations he is a terrorist were invented by his enemies. Aweys said non-Muslims too often think that all fundamentalist Muslims are terrorists. âI would advise the Western world to change their mind, because all of the time they call the Islamic countries, the Islamic people terrorists, which is not true,â he said. âThat is one of the things that has been pulling Islamists and the Western world apart.
Yep, they don't like it when we tell the truth.
He said he and his followers, who include armed militiamen, would not rest until they had established an Islamic government in Somalia. He said he opposed efforts to install a Western-style democracy and called for the international community to leave Somalis alone to choose their own future.
Which includes him with the bejeweled turban, of course. The people wouldn't want it any other way.
Aweys said he would wage holy war on any foreign forces that enter Somalia.
'cause he's big heat, ya know.
He said he plans to have an important role in the countryâs future. âI can influence all of my people with the faith and our religion,â Aweys said. âThe existing government is not an Islamic one and we will be having our own Islamic faith and we will be very strong in influencing our people.â Aweys did not answer directly when asked whether he has ever had contact with Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden or whether he has been accepting funding and weapons from Eritrea, neighboring Ethiopiaâs longtime rival. But he said he has the right to make contact with and have relations with anyone he wants.
Don't we have a cell in Diego Garcia Gitmo with his name?
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) leaders allowed NWFP Chief Minister Akram Khan Durrani to attend Wednesdayâs National Security Council (NSC) meeting amidst Qazi Hussain Ahmedâs reservations. However, Opposition Leader in the National Assembly Maulana Fazlur Rehman did not attend the meeting. MMA members including Fazl, Allama Sajid Naqvi, Shah Faridul Haq, Abdul Aziz Naqshbandi and Sajid Mir allowed Durrani to attend the NSC meeting held under the chairmanship of President Pervez Musharraf on a single point agenda, which was the rehabilitation of people affected by the recent earthquake that hit northern Pakistan, including Azad Kashmir.
A meeting between Qazi and Fazl late on Tuesday night did not prove to be fruitful because of the rigid stance adopted by Qazi, who was saying the MMA leadership should stick to its initial stance of not accepting the NSC. He was of the view that attending the NSC meeting by any MMA member would mean that the MMA had accepted the body. However, Fazl tried to convince Qazi that Durraniâs participation would be good for the NWFP. When contacted, Fazl said five members of the MMA had allowed Durrani to attend the NSC meeting keeping in view âspecial circumstancesâ.
Glad to see the national tragedy has brought Pakistan's diverse communities together...
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said on Wednesday that Pakistan did not object in receiving aid from any country. Addressing a press conference after meeting US Secretary of State Condoleezza, Aziz said the President's Relief Fund was open for everyone to contribute. "Anyone is free to contribute from anywhere in the world. And this is purely on humanitarian grounds," he added.
He was replying to a question about whether Pakistan had received any aid from Israel. Earlier, the US pledged to support Pakistan rebuild the devastated cities and villages of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and the NWFP. "We will be with you not just today, but in the future too," Rice told reporters after meeting President Pervez Musharraf and Aziz. She said she visited Pakistan to express the sympathies of the US government and people to the earthquake victims. She said her government and people wanted to respond to Pakistan's call for help. The US government has already pledged $50 million for the quake-hit people. A few US helicopters are also taking part in the relief operation. Rice pledged more helicopters and financial and logistical assistance.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2005 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Prime Minister Khaleda Zia Wednesday apparently declared a mass resistance against militants as she asked people to capture those involved in bomb-terrorism in the name of Islam, saying that her government has already banned these outfits. âYou know who they are. They have to be caught. There is no room for terrorism in Islam,â Khaleda told her audience at a big public meeting at Daulatpur Math here, barely two days after she addressed the nation when she expressed her governmentâs iron will to extirpate the new syndrome of âbomb-terrorismâ.
IN A NEW REPORT bishops of the Church of England have urged Western Christians to apologize for the Iraq War as an "act of truth and reconciliation." The committee of bishops, chaired by the bishop of Oxford, Richard Harries, also linked U.S. "imperialism" to the influence of U.S. evangelicals, who seemingly pose the real threat to world peace: "No country should see itself as the redeemer nation, singled out by God as part of his providential plan," the bishops warned America, which is ostensibly consumed with religious zeal for conquest.
The trial of an Algerian man with suspected al-Qaeda terror links is to proceed, a judge in Belfast has ruled. Abbas Boutrab, 27, denies possessing 25 computer discs containing instructions on bomb-making downloaded from the web. The defence had argued he should be cleared because the evidence against him was of a "tenuous nature". However, Mr Justice Weatherup said he was satisfied the trial should go ahead on those charges, but acquitted him of using a doctored Italian passport.
Britain published sweeping plans to fight terrorism on Wednesday, which, if passed into law, would let police hold suspects for three months without charge, sparking anger from senior judges and civil rights groups. However Tony Blairâs government may still have to back down on the most contested parts of the bill, which was drawn up after four British Islamist militants blew up 52 commuters and themselves on Londonâs transport system in July. 
AL-QAEDAâS second-in-command has ordered the groupâs leader in Iraq to prepare a campaign of violence across the Middle East to establish an Islamist superstate when America leaves Iraq.
LONDON - Iraqis may have to wait up to 10 years before their country becomes a stable democracy, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.
The influx of U.S. aid to earthquake-ravaged Pakistan -- signified by yesterday's unscheduled stop in Islamabad by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice -- could have an important side benefit: improving the battered U.S. image in a critical Muslim country. U.S. officials are quick to say that the rapid reaction to the earthquake that has killed 20,000 to 40,000 people is largely due to humanitarian considerations -- as well as to a desire to reward the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, for his support of U.S. interests despite two assassination attempts. "Musharraf is a friend and hero in our eyes," said one senior U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the issue more freely. "There is a clear and unmistakable signal being sent that we help our friends."
Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) leaders allowed NWFP Chief Minister Akram Khan Durrani to attend Wednesdayâs National Security Council (NSC) meeting amidst Qazi Hussain Ahmedâs reservations. However, Opposition Leader in the National Assembly Maulana Fazlur Rehman did not attend the meeting. MMA members including Fazl, Allama Sajid Naqvi, Shah Faridul Haq, Abdul Aziz Naqshbandi and Sajid Mir allowed Durrani to attend the NSC meeting held under the chairmanship of President Pervez Musharraf on a single point agenda, which was the rehabilitation of people affected by the recent earthquake that hit northern Pakistan, including Azad Kashmir. 
