Posted by: tipper ||
08/06/2004 9:55:11 AM ||
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#1
Worked for me.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/06/2004 10:43 Comments ||
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#2
Some Saudi security experts and Islamists nevertheless believe that the second generation insurgents are close to buckling. âThis summer will see the last of them,â says Khashoggi. âThey have not only lost a lot of people. They have lost infrastructure, their safe houses, and the weapons, explosives and cash they must have built up over years. People are no longer protecting them or taking them in.â
Against that, Saudi Arabia provides almost laboratory conditions to incubate thousands of bin Ladens and Muqrins. That is its strategic dilemma ...
Meanwhile, mosques and classrooms spew out Wahhabi fanaticism, and Saudi Arabia has for decades been exporting these ideas by endowing mosques, schools and religious foundations abroad, as well as supporting pan-Islamist movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood ...
Sheikh Saleh bin Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, minister of Islamic Affairs and part of the Wahhabi establishment, rejects even the term âreformâ as pregnant with liberalism and licentiousness.
EMPHASIS ADDED
Let's do the math:
"... Saudi Arabia provides almost laboratory conditions to incubate thousands of bin Ladens and Muqrins." +
"Meanwhile, mosques and classrooms spew out Wahhabi fanaticism, and Saudi Arabia has for decades been exporting these ideas ..." +
"Sheikh Saleh bin Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, minister of Islamic Affairs and part of the Wahhabi establishment, rejects even the term âreformâ as pregnant with liberalism and licentiousness." =
Saudi Arabia has sown the seeds of its own (and potentially the world's) destruction. Exactly how sympathetic are outside observers, especially non-Islamics, supposed to be about this? Bodies of the entire Saudi royal family could decorate Riyadh's lamp posts and it would not be sufficient repayment for the horrors they have so cheerfully bred up during their reign.
POLICE today launched an investigation into comments by a Norwich religious leader branding Islam "an evil religion". The Rev Dr Alan Clifford, pastor of Norwich Reformed Church, yesterday told the Evening News he backed the views of BNP leader Nick Griffin, who was shown in a TV documentary telling party members Islam was a "vicious, wicked faith."
His comments sparked outrage among fellow religious leaders and anti-racist groups.
The Evening News was today contacted by the Race Crime Unit of Norfolk police to provide further information about Dr Clifford's comments, after saying they were concerned his remarks could damage "community cohesiveness". Abraham Eshetu, diversity officer at Norfolk police, said: "We will be investigating the comments made by Mr Clifford."
Dr Clifford had told the Evening News: "The views about Islam made by Nick Griffin gained widespread publicity and I happen to believe what he said in this case was correct.
"The only antidote to this evil religion is the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Imagine, a Christian preacher who believes in the Gospel.
The pastor, whose church meets at Eaton Park Community Centre and is an associate member of Affinity, formerly the British Evangelical Council, was today unrepentant but insisted he was not racist. "I believe in free speech and free association of religion," he said. "I have no objections to Muslims worshipping and associating but I think a point does come when it's very difficult to tolerate people whose religious motivation in its pure form leads to your annihilation."
He said he felt "terribly sorry" for Muslims "because they have been brainwashed."
"I can honestly say I love them and pray for them to become Christians.
Oh, that'll go over well in certain neighborhoods.
"If the police wish to follow this up I am perfectly happy to speak to them and explain."
I don't think the average Brit police officer is looking for a theological exposition.
Posted by: tipper ||
08/06/2004 9:38:05 AM ||
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#1
Gaffe: v. /gaF/ 1. when a politician or other public figure speaks an unpleasant truth and then is forced to backpedal quickly.
Posted by: N Guard ||
08/06/2004 10:16 Comments ||
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#2
*ahem*
Once again....anti-Islam isn't racism. Anti-Islamofascist is self-preservation.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 10:19 Comments ||
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#7
Is "community cohesiveness" more likely to come about by not challenging terrorist-infiltrated Islam? The Rev's language is clumsy, and he sounds rather like one more narrow-minded proselytizer (like some imams can be), but he has at least faced the same hard reality we have-we can have no room in our communities for violence-promoting, jihad-tolerating Muslims that would be very happy to see the downfall of the culture and country in which they live.
#8
I read somewhere recently that a Preacher in Oz gott in trouble of this type with the PC crowd. The amazing part is he ONLY quoted from the Koran and STILL got in trouble. farking asshats.
#9
WTF is a "diversity officer"? Is that like the old KGB political officer? How far the mighty Brits have fallen.
Scotland Yard has a Diversity Directorate that allows it to arrest people who are reported by others as SAYING or doing anything that might "incite racial/homosexual/disability hatred" thereby breaking the Public Order Act, yet another soft totalitarian apparatchuk put into place by Tony Blair and his socialist Labour Party fellow morons. In effect, Tony Blair's gov't goes beyond considering ACTION as a crime. The Labour Party considers it a crime to THINK or SAY something politically incorrect against a few selected groups he protects. Alas, wouldn't you know, Christian Churches are not one of the Labour Party's protected groups, so Imams get a pass for their nasty words and thoughts. Coincidently, the Labour Party counted on Muslims as a solid voter base in the past: Muslim support for Labour was as high as 73% in the general election of May 2001 http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1223856,00.html
Some RB posters think Blair is the next best thing to sliced bread because he joined GWB in the War in Iraq. And many posters, myself included, have railed against Chretien and Chirac in the past. But in terms of dismantling the underpinnings of a nation while in office, Tony Blair is much worse than either Chretien to Canada or Chirac to France.I hold nothing but contempt for the UK's Labour Party and its "esteemed" leader. The day Labour and Blair get un-elected from office will be many years too late, IMHO.
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 13:14 Comments ||
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#10
now if this is all true why isn't it applied to islamic sermons that preach hate and jihat ect....
Posted by: Dan ||
08/06/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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#11
Here's your answer #10: Coincidently, the Labour Party counted on Muslims as a solid voter base in the past:
Muslim support for Labour was as high as 73% in the general election of May 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1223856,00.html
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 13:45 Comments ||
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#12
His comments sparked outrage among fellow religious leaders and anti-racist groups.
And the "anti-racist groups" can STFU. No racism occured.
... they were concerned his remarks could damage "community cohesiveness".
And preaching violent jihad does not?
Abraham Eshetu, diversity officer at Norfolk police, said: "We will be investigating the comments made by Mr Clifford."
Good, please make sure to follow all of this back to its source in the mosques. The evil forces at play in Islam aren't centered in Canterbury or the Vatican.
Dr Clifford had told the Evening News: "The views about Islam made by Nick Griffin gained widespread publicity and I happen to believe what he said in this case was correct.
The longer Muslims seek to lever liberal Western religious freedoms against those who question Islam's true intent, the more crossover cases of borderline hate speech and freedom of speech that will happen.
We are merely seeing a version of "Christian Jihad" retaliating to Islamic jihad as preached in the mosques. Too bad Britain could not bring itself to monitor the Finsbury Park mosque as closely as they have the church in Norwich.
"The only antidote to this evil religion is the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Here's the sad part. Seeking ascendancy or any proclaiming of such is pretty much the same mentality as shown by the Islamists. When all religious figures get over this "my dogma's better than your dogma" garbage, this world's going to see a lot less strife.
The pastor, whose church meets at Eaton Park Community Centre and is an associate member of Affinity, formerly the British Evangelical Council, was today unrepentant but insisted he was not racist.
And he most likely is not a racist. Religiously bigoted, perhaps, but more likely just feeling justifiably threatened by another religion's extremists that seek to wipe Christianity off of the map.
"I believe in free speech and free association of religion," he said. "I have no objections to Muslims worshipping and associating but I think a point does come when itâs very difficult to tolerate people whose religious motivation in its pure form leads to your annihilation."
It's always nice to see a spade called a spade. Congratulations, Doctor Clifford, upon being braver than a majority of British law enforcement or journalists covering this disturbing trend. Unfortunately, until the mask is ripped from Islamism's face, Clifford's attitudes will be legally interpretable as hate speech instead of merely being being freedom of speech.
Legal authorities had better begin to weigh quite carefully what is being preached in the mosques, before continuing to supress vigorous resistance in non-Islamic sectors. There will come a point where the public perceives a threat regardless of whether the law sees it as one or not. Vigilante acts will then supplant overt resistance and the real war on Islam will begin. If the law cannot protect the public from Islamic hate speech, people will protect themselves in their own ways. Merely focusing upon and stifling reactions to Islamist intolerance will not solve the problem any more than stiff jail sentences for apprehended terrorists. Reaction is an unworthy substitute for interdiction.
#15
Here's the sad part. Seeking ascendancy or any proclaiming of such is pretty much the same mentality as shown by the Islamists. When all religious figures get over this "my dogma's better than your dogma" garbage, this world's going to see a lot less strife.
Only if you disagree with ANY RELIGION, Zenster, and see them as ALL ALIKE. Denis Prager noted that there were no Palestinian Christian Suicide Bombers. Christianity is not Islam, and Ann Coulter had a few choice words for those who deliberately confuse the two.
Dr. Clifford is quite correct: Muslims simply WILL NOT become atheists, and NOTHING is going to disappear from the Koran concerning Jihad. Conversion of Muslims to Judaism is unheard-of, but conversion to Christianity is relatively more common, even though it is an effective death penalty. Here's what happens when a Muslim becomes a Christian. In fact, the day that a Iraqui Muslim can safely convert to Christianity without being beheaded for apostasy will be the day we'll have turned the corner on the War on Terror.
Rantburgers pretty much agree that Bush made a mistake thinking that Islam is, like the Christianity he's familiar with, a religion of Peace, but don't make the opposite mistake of thinking that Christianity is, like Islam, a religion of war. (Mohammed died in 632, The Muslim armies were turned back at Tours, France, in 732, having taken all the territory from the Arabian Peninsula to Spain in 100 years. The First Crusade was 1095, which means that "Christendom" took over 300 friggin' years to figure out that its ass was in a sling and that it was high time to get it in gear...)
#16
School age children today typically reference any type of "unpleasantry" as RACIST. Idea seems to be promoted by leftist teachers in search of "social justice" for all and sundry actors and actions...the word is losing its true meaning rapidly...I know as I am a teacher...
#17
How come we never hear about POLICE investigations into the ongoing denigration of anything having to do with Western Civilization, Christian or not, coming out of the mosques 24/7. The Rev is cool. And he's right. In it's "ultimate" form, Islam allows for nothing else but Islam. Not very "diverse," I'd say.
#18
#15Only if you disagree with ANY RELIGION, Zenster, and see them as ALL ALIKE.
Ptah, while I wholeheartedly support freedom of religion, it is impossible to ignore the fact that an overwhelming majority of religions have a supernatural or superstitious basis. However difficult it may be to make comparisons between them, this simple fact remains as a constant recurring theme. No, not all religions are alike, but their almost universal dependency upon statements unsupported by historical fact does create a template whereby they can be examined in relation to each other. Islam and Christianity both demand their claims be taken on face value without any genuine factual verification.
While it is pretty obvious that Jesus and Mohammed both existed as historical figures, there is absolutely no proof either of them had direct divine contact or authorization. All resulting doctrine devolving from either figure consists of written material gathered by witnesses or culled from second hand accounts. Both Christianity and Islam alike have been used to perpetrate unspeakable horrors, all done in the name of the Almighty.
I find there to be a rather direct connection between Christianity and radical Islam. After centuries of Crusaders torturing and killing Arabs while telling them, "there is only one true God," the Arabs finally believed them. Unfortunately, their "one true God" just doesn't happen to be the Christian's Holy Father. Instead, we are now treated to a religion whose fanatical roots were put down in the salted soil of Christian domination. Christianity is most certainly not to blame for all of the incredible evils that Islam has engaged in during its history, that remains quite clear. Yet, its intense antagonism quite definitely served as a midwife to deliver forth a competing religion whose obsession with martyrdom would come to make the Christians look like lackluster slackers.
No, it is not Christianity's fault that Islam has stagnated perpetually for several centuries, until such a point where its cultural relevance is substantially diminished. Nor is it to blame for a profound lack of reformation within the Moslem faith. Those issues fairly much belong to Islam alone, along with some Arab political institutions who also played handmaiden to its decay. This in no way diminishes the similarities between Islam and Christianity. Both are Messianic faiths reliant upon unwavering acceptance of codified rules of conduct and the unquestioning belief in an afterlife conferred upon its adherents by a judgmental God.
Islam certainly faces much greater strictures looming in their near future. The generous loophole of religious freedom granted it by secular cultures is rapidly shrinking with each atrocity committed in Allah's name. While it remains critical to segregate extremist Muslim factions from their faith's mainstream body, this is becoming less the responsibility of outsiders and more an onus upon Islam itself. However hasty Doctor Clifford might be in deeming all Islam to be "an evil religion" and a "vicious, wicked faith," his right to make those observations (however misguided they may be) is conferred upon him by Islam's own congenital inability to expel the fanatics within their ranks and accept its rightful burden of reform.
#19
After centuries of Crusaders torturing and killing Arabs while telling them, "there is only one true God," the Arabs finally believed them. Unfortunately, their "one true God" just doesn't happen to be the Christian's Holy Father. Instead, we are now treated to a religion whose fanatical roots were put down in the salted soil of Christian domination.
Well, people, in response to links and a recitation of dates of known historical events, Zenster handwaves, mis-generalizes, and comes up with a fact free, but definitely creative, rendition of the origin of Islam that has utterly no foundation in either Islamic or Ancient history. Thus, I have a good basis to be skeptical about his capabilities and competence when it comes to assigning moral blame among religions of which he is patently ignorant.
#20
length of post doesn't equal credibility? I'll notify Aris after the Zen master :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 22:04 Comments ||
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#21
Ptah, what do you want documented? Be specific.
Are you disputing that Christian Crusaders left a gaping wound in the collective Arab consciousness? One that persists to this day as a rejection of Western secularism. Where have I mentioned anything about the origins of Islam save that it descends from Mohammed and is a Messianic religion? Do you deny that Christianity applied pressure to Islam and may well have contributed to steering it towards a more fanatical interpretation? Their influence was certainly not all hearts and flowers.
What part of; "No, it is not Christianity's fault that Islam has stagnated perpetually for several centuries, until such a point where its cultural relevance is substantially diminished. Nor is it to blame for a profound lack of reformation within the Moslem faith. Those issues fairly much belong to Islam alone, along with some Arab political institutions who also played handmaiden to its decay." did you not understand?
I am not arguing that Islam currently espouses violence to a much greater degree than Christianity, which appears to be one of your central disputes.
Frank G, do please find it within yourself to forgive that part of the world's population which neither shares your short attention span nor confuses brevity with sincerity.
#26
ummmm.... when did the Crusdaers fight Arabs? Fought a lot of Saracens and Turks and such like. But arabs were confinded to the arabian pennisula until the moon god forced them to run amuck.
#27
After centuries of Crusaders torturing and killing Arabs while telling them, "there is only one true God," the Arabs finally believed them.
Zenster, every history indicates that it was Mohammed, not the Crusaders, who told the Arabs "that there is only one true god", and that it was Mohammed's warmaking that forced the Meccans to eventually give up polytheism. On this everyone, except yourself in the above paragraph, seems quite clear.
Shipman's got it right, although the relevant dates are in my post: In less than 100 years, the Muslim armies flooded out of Saudi Arabia, across North Africa (destroying, by the way, a vibrant Christian culture that gave birth to notables like Augustine of Hippo), into Spain, to be stopped at Tours in 732. That battle was so important, Dr. VDH included it in the shortlist of impressive battles in "Carnage and Culture"! The First Crusade was in 1095, over 300 years later. Quite a trick for an 11th century war to traumatically affect 7th century minds, unless you believe in time travel. Or was I mistaken in believing you knew enough of world history to know that all these dates were AD, not BC?
The obvious conclusion, of course, is that Islam started it all, and that the Crusades were a justified response to a religion hell bent on converting the world by the sword. However, that doesn't yield the moral onus on Christianity you desperately crave. Now, if you have a verified historical record of a Christian invasion of similar dramatic proportions PRIOR to the Crusades, give the link. Until then, you're unconsciously mimicking the Left's "Oh the poor Palestinians!" schtick in applying it to Ancient Islam.
#29
hmmm - maybe some will see it. Nice historical bitch-slap Ptah!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#30
Ofcourse if the Christians in the Eastern Roman Empire hadn't the oppression of the Copts as their chief hobby, the locals might have rallied atleast a hint of a resistance against the Arab conquest of Egypt instead of welcoming it fullheartedly.
#31
Zenster, every history indicates that it was Mohammed, not the Crusaders, who told the Arabs "that there is only one true god", and that it was Mohammed's warmaking that forced the Meccans to eventually give up polytheism. On this everyone, except yourself in the above paragraph, seems quite clear.
The First Crusade was in 1095, over 300 years later.
Where do I dispute this? Yes, Moslem incursions into Europe likely served as the basis for the Crusaders' retaliation. Let's not forget the thinly disguised economic plunder that accompanied both sides' ventures. This in no way deletes the atrocities committed against Moslems (and Jews) during the Crusades. Christian intolerance was on a par with Moslem intransigence.
I have never said that the Christians started all of the strife. I am saying that the incredible abuses by the Christians during the Crusades contributed to a polarization of Moslem ideals. Neither side is free from blame in this. I merely seek to connect the intolerance of both sides in order to demonstrate how modern Islamic fanaticism is a partial outgrowth of the oppression that Christians imported with their arrival in the Middle East. Yes, the Moslems were quite accomplished at it too, but European domination manifested as a lasting model for Islamic hatred.
To Christianity's credit, it abandoned many of its theocratic leanings centuries ago. As I clearly pointed out, Islamic cultures are solely responsible for the pestilence of continued modern theocracy in the Middle East. Moslems have no one to blame at present except themselves. This does not ameliorate the role Christianity played in entrenching this mentality. So long as any religion touts itself as the "one true faith," all of them are doomed to continuous bloodletting. Do you argue this?
#32
Every Wahhabi mosque in the U.S. is a safe house for jihadists and they do it all tax free under our 501C3 IRS laws. How wonderful!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/07/2004 18:56 Comments ||
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#33
Frank, until I see you doing some of the heavy lifting around here your insults won't carry much weight. Lawn chair critics don't cut much ice with me.
From The Islam Council of Britain
When Allaah (swt) speaks about ... murtaddeen (apostates — those who used to be Muslim then became kaafir), he often describes them in a state where they themselves believe they are Muslims, while in actual fact they are kuffaar (disbelievers in Islaam). .... So who are these kuffaar that claim to be Muslims? .... The answer is very clear ... It is those who claim to be Muslims yet they tell us to become kaafir by voting for man-made law and the kuffaar, become MP's, join the police force and the army of Taaghout (non-Muslims) and claim that Jews, Christians and Muslims are all the same and are a single brotherhood ⊠a'oudhu billaah!
These apostates are cursed by almighty Allaah (swt), are destined for eternal torture in the hereafter and are the cause of fitnah and corruption among the Muslims. .... In the time of the Prophet (saw) people like these were fought against and killed by the Sahaabah (companions of the Prophet). However, in our sad time of humiliation and weakness, these kuffaar are praised and shown as role models for Muslims to follow. They are even given titles such as 'Imaam' or 'the world's most renowned scholar of Islaam'!!
These people are kaafir for their allegiance with the non-Muslims, praising them and claiming that they are equal to Muslims. They have on numerous occasions come on TV and public platforms calling Muslims to become part of the army, police and intelligence of the kuffaar — the enemies of Allaah. It is haraam (prohibited) and could lead to apostasy to attend their talks, lectures, debates or discussions. .... We call upon all Muslims not to attend the talks or conferences of those who call for interfaith between Muslims and kuffaar, alliance and co-operation with the enemies of Allaah, to vote for man-made law or commit any other form of kufr or shirk.
We must stand by the true scholars of Islaam who are either behind bars or labelled as extremists or terrorists and work collective in a jamaa'ah (collective body) to rid the earth from our kaafir apostate rulers (and those who support them) and their oppressive regimes and implement the sharee'ah, as a matter of obligation and Tawheed.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/06/2004 12:37:47 AM ||
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#14
dennisw---re #12. Before we get into the high energy conjecture Zen koan for today, let me pose another Koan:
If you are smack dab on the opposite side of the earth from Mecca, which way do you PTP (point to pray)? It would be assumed that you point to the most direct and shortest geodetic distance toward Mecca. In this case, it would be any direction. But of course I am looking at the problem from western kiffir mindset. I guess that I will have to float a fatwa and see who bites.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/06/2004 9:09 Comments ||
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#15
straightest path is through the earth, hence I was being only slightly facetious when I told the last one to stick his head where the sun don't shine.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 9:46 Comments ||
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#16
I'm starting to suspect that Islam is the work of a group of teenaged Star Trek fanboys who study Klingon.
#17
Unburdened by the constraints of spherical trigonometry and dealing with the geoid, and inspired by the burrowing Norks, Frank G solves the koan. Next question: How do you pray vertically down toward Mecca? Maybe we won't go there today......
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/06/2004 9:55 Comments ||
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#19
The answer is simple you silly kaffirs! The believers at the point opposite Mekkah form circles instead of the traditional lines and all slam their head as hard as possible into the earth in effort to get closer to the beautiful black stony meteorite a mere 8,000 miles or so away.
#21
Nah, BH; if it was Klingon-studiers, the women would be dressed in Xena-style leather armor and would as soon kill you as sleep with you. Now, Ferengi, on the other hand . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/06/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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Looks like they're into the White Slag again...
The world people should heighten vigilance against all manner of reactionary ideological and cultural infiltration of the U.S. imperialists and the international reactionary forces and put up a stiff fight against it, says Rodong Sinmun Thursday in a signed article. It goes on:
They are becoming all the more crafty and tenacious in their moves to paralyze the sound thinking and consciousness of the popular masses and reduce them to ignorant and benighted men and mental cripples blindly obedient to the given circumstances and destiny. One of their methods is to widely spread superstition. Oooggga-Booga-Booga!!!
At their instigation and with their patronage and support, the shady elements slyly manipulate those caught in the noose of superstition to commit anti-state and counter-revolutionary acts. Today superstition is a major means and a leverage of the U.S.-led international reactionary forces for reactionary ideological and cultural penetration and through this they are seeking to break the people's consciousness for independence and their anti-imperialist, anti-U.S. fighting spirit and attain the aim of aggression and war with ease. Superstition? Is that the same as "allurement"?
Mammonism and the bourgeois way of life are dangerous poisons nibbling at society and man. Mammonism?
The U.S. imperialists and the reactionaries are infiltrating into the international community mammonism prevailing in capitalist society to egg the people on to commit all crimes such as murder and robbery, ignoring public morality and order for the sake of wealth, blinded with love of money and gain. And they are leaving no means untried to disseminate the bourgeois way of life in other countries. In their virulent infiltration campaign they utilize such literary and art works as film, drama and song and such media as newspaper, TV and journal. Unleash the Mammonism bomb!
The U.S. imperialists are these days maliciously trying to intensify superstition and psychological operations targeted against the DPRK. The spread of superstition, mammonism and the bourgeois way of life, the dangerous poisons destroying human soul and body and creating disorder and confusion in society, must not be allowed. What the hell was that all about???
Posted by: tu3031 ||
08/06/2004 9:48:11 AM ||
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The world people should heighten vigilance against all manner of reactionary ideological and cultural infiltration of the U.S. imperialists and the international reactionary forces and put up a stiff fight against it
Stop buying Furbees and Coca-Cola, you fools! Juche refreshes!
#3
ahhhh that's the old Rodong Sinmun we used to know. Must've been in a re-education camp on vacation
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 10:15 Comments ||
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#4
Hmm...no sea of fire...Mammonism, now thats got possibilites. Plenty of spittle, but I can't see what set him off. Nice form, though. A good finish, and an excelent dismount.
7.9, the deduction for not using sea of fire or clearly stating what set him off being 1.5
Posted by: N Guard ||
08/06/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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#5
. . . dangerous poisons destroying human soul and body and creating disorder and confusion in society, must not be allowed.
I don't know, I'd give them an 8.5 on this one for 'mammonism' alone, and three times at that, and in context to boot. I'd have gone to an 8.75, but 'ignorant and benighted men and mental cripples blindly obedient to the given circumstances and destiny'...it's kinda clunky.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/06/2004 11:40 Comments ||
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#7
moves to paralyze the sound thinking and consciousness of the popular masses and reduce them to ignorant and benighted men and mental cripples
Sounds like he's seen Shanghai and didn't like it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 15:21 Comments ||
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#10
It's 70s funk-groove time in North Korea:
Very superstitious, in the D-P-R-K,
Very superstitious, Rodong Sinmun's had his say,
Worship the Dear Leader, reduced to eatin' grass,
Seven years of bad luck, good things in your past
When you believe in Juche then you don't understand why you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way, hey, hey, hey . . .
Posted by: Mike ||
08/06/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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#11
Rather obvious, really.
Severe forms of malnutrition include ... cretinism and irreversible brain damage
WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States has determined that North Korea is working on new ballistic missile systems designed to deliver nuclear warheads and that it is testing the technology by proxy in Iran, a Bush administration official said Thursday.
Having agreed to a self-imposed test ban, North Korea is sharing technology information with Iran, which carries out missile tests on North Korea's behalf, the administration official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The missile program is based on Russian technology and has been conducted with help from Russian scientists - help the United States thinks may be continuing, the official said.
Hello, Vlad?
A leading military publication, Jane's Defense Weekly, reported recently that North Korea was developing two new ballistic missile systems that "appreciably expand the ballistic-missile threat." A version of the missile capable of being launched from a submarine or a ship is potentially the most threatening, the weekly said.
I'd like to see an NKor missile launched from an Nkor sub. Not sure which one would disintegrate first.
Not all of the details of the North Korean program are known to the United States, the administration official told The Associated Press. One important question, he said, is whether the missiles are exactly patterned on a Russian model. Another, he said, is whether the missiles could reach the United States.
U.S. officials think North Korea may have the technology for a submarine-launched ballistic missile, but it is not clear whether North Korea has a missile platform, the official said.
Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly held talks with South Korean officials this week in Washington in preparation for a resumption of negotiations, possibly in September. Kelly told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in mid-July the United States would not establish normal relations with North Korea even if it fully met U.S. demands for nuclear disarmament. After four negotiating sessions with North Korea, beginning in April 2003, "it is clear we are still far from agreement," Kelly said.
If North Korea takes substantial steps toward disarmament, the United States would be willing to extend trade and aid benefits to North Korea but not full normalization of relations, Kelly said. That step could be taken only after North Korea improved its human rights performance and ended objectionable activity in other areas, he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/06/2004 1:07:45 AM ||
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#1
I'd like to see an NKor missile launched from an Nkor sub. Not sure which one would disintegrate first.
Hard to say...guess it depends on which one has more edible parts.
#2
Any statements made by us with respect to agreements with the Norks are just fluff for public consumption. The Norks never abide by their agreements. The only sell outs agreements of substance the US will make with the Norks would be made by a Kerry administration, God forbid.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/06/2004 9:28 Comments ||
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#3
Seafarious -
Solid rocket fuel ingredients include 16% atomized aluminum powder as the fuel, 70% ammonium per chlorate as the oxidizer, a 12% polybutadiene acrylic acid acrylonitril as a binding agent, 2% epoxy for curing and extremely small traces of Powdered Beer iron oxide to control the burn rates during flight. 100% of the RDA for 3 vitamins and minerals. I'd hedge my bets on the missiles.
Mmmmm.... Candied Rocket Fuel.... Mmmmm...
/Homer Simpson/
#4
Yet one more reason to give the Aegis class cruisers and destroyers enhanced missile capability. And hurry the development of the DDX with railgun and free electron laser cpaability
From a weblog, which Fred doesn't want us to do, but this one has photos of the desecrations, so I'm putting it here. Again, we generally don't do this. Hat tip to the Instapundit.
At 2am this morning (Friday) 80 - 100 Jewish graves were attacked and pushed over at Wellington's Makara cemetery, which is now the main Jewish cemetery in the capital. The Tehara house, a chapel used for the final moments before burial was torched.
I took the first 6 pics at 9am this morning, where I was also interviewed by reporters from the Dominion Post and Radio New Zealand.
One other thing while I was at the cemetery. A fellow member of the Jewish community came up to me after I had done the media interviews and said he hoped I hadnt given out my name - as there are nutters out there! He then went on to ask what has the country come to when you have to hide your Jewishness. I replied by saying not only did I give my name to the media, but I was proud to do so. I am not scared of these people, just very pissed off.
This is enough!
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/06/2004 12:14:31 PM ||
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DOVER TOWNSHIP, N.J. (AP) - A doctor whose homes were searched by FBI agents investigating the 2001 anthrax attacks was charged with assault for allegedly fighting with four family members at a motel just hours after the raids, authorities said. Dr. Kenneth M. Berry, who founded an organization in 1997 that trains medical professionals to respond to chemical and biological attacks, was arrested Thursday afternoon by police responding to domestic dispute at the White Sands Motel in the resort community of Point Pleasant Beach. His relationship to the four was not immediately known. Berry, 48, of Wellsville, N.Y., was released from the Ocean County Jail after posting $10,000 bail.
Several hours before Berry's arrest, neighbors said officers arrived at his parents' summer home in Dover Township. They brought out garbage bags that appeared to be filled with bulky contents, said Jonathan DeGraw, 26, who rents the house next door. They also removed boxes with clear plastic bags in them.
Two flatbed trucks hauled away two vehicles, according to another neighbor, Adam Fadel. One of the vehicles was returned Thursday evening. In Wellsville, more than three dozen agents, some in protective suits, combed through two homes listed in property records as the past and present addresses of Berry.
An FBI spokesman in Washington said the FBI and U.S. Postal Inspection Service were searching multiple locations in Wellsville and Dover Township as part of the anthrax probe. He would not comment on what agents were seeking. "There is no present danger to public health or safety," said Joe Parris, FBI supervisory special agent.
"Pay no attention to the agents in the HAZMAT suits"
Reached late Wednesday, Kenneth Berry's father, William C. Berry, told The Star-Ledger of Newark that his son is being unfairly targeted by the FBI. "Hey, here's a guy being shafted by the FBI," Berry said at his home in Newtown, Conn. "It's just buying time because they have nothing on anthrax. You are looking at a setup."
Anthrax-laced envelopes were mailed in the fall of 2001 to news media and government offices. Five people were killed and 17 fell ill. The mailings further rattled a nation already on edge after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Berry's organization is called PREEMPT Medical Counter-Terrorism Inc.; PREEMPT stands for Planned Response Exercises and Emergency Medical Preparedness Training. In a 1997 USA Today interview, he advocated the broad distribution of anthrax vaccine. "We ought to be planning to make anthrax vaccine widely available to the population starting in the major cities," he said. The remarks were made soon after the Pentagon announced it would begin inoculating all 2.4 million military personnel against anthrax.
Sounds like his business would make a lot of money if people needed to be trained to handle anthrax attacks......hummmmm?
"I just can't believe he'd be involved in anything like (anthrax) but who knows? Life's kind of funny," said William DiBerardino, a retired administrator at Jones Memorial Hospital in Wellsville, where Berry was director of emergency services until 2001. "He's an emergency room doctor. He's not a chemist or anything like that," DiBerardino said.
Berry pleaded guilty in 1999 to disorderly conduct to settle charges of forgery. State police said Berry's signature was on a fake will of the late Dr. Andrew Colletta, according to The Wellsville Daily Reporter. While initially charged with two counts of second-degree forgery, the plea to a lesser violation allowed him to keep his medical license.
Forged a will to what, get a piece of Doc Colletta's estate? Sounds like a man who needed money.
"From what I know, he's a fine, conscientious physician who always had the interest of his patients at heart," said Joseph Pelych, the lawyer who represented Berry in that case. "I find it hard to believe he would be involved in" anthrax.
Interesting
More from Washington Times: The varying fortunes of Berry's company reflected on the Web site trace the rise and fall of federal interest in bioterror defense over the last eight years. During the late 1990s, President Clinton, prodded by counter-terrorism adviser Richard Clarke, took a strong and personal interest in biodefense. Though there had been attempts to use bioweapons before, the sarin gas attack by Aum Shinri Kyo on March 20, 1995, in Tokyo -- and the little-known, failed attempt by the same group to use anthrax -- lit a fire under the administration. Funding for federal activities to counter bioterrorism jumped sharply and key defensive and recovery programs were put into place. The drive behind the programs gradually faded with time, however, and the administration was further distracted by the Monica Lewinsky scandal starting around 1997.
Over the last three years, one of the widely suggested motivations for the still-unidentified anthrax killer has been a business interest in an expanded biodefense effort. The experience of dealing with the letters, and the stark lack of emergency preparation revealed by the attacks in New York and Washington, kicked the federal government into high gear once again. A large part of the funds now being expended go to training first responders, an area relevant to PREEMPT's original business interests. Many companies, however, were chasing biodefense dollars at the same time PREEMPT was trying to capture funding and interest.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/06/2004 10:10:00 AM ||
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#1
Edward Jay Epstein has an interesting question:
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reports that a Californian-trained biologist named Sufaat in 2001 spent "several months attempting to cultivate anthrax for al Qaeda in a laboratory he helped set up" in Afghanistan and that this same biologist provided housing for at least two of the 9-11 hijackers in his Kuala Lumpur condominium. Does the Commission connect this anthrax project in 2001-- or the quartering of 9-11 hijackers by the anthrax-scientist-- to the terrorist attacks on America they investigated?
Answer:
No, the Commission makes no connection between the 9-11 attacks and the multiple anthrax attackers that began a week or so later. Indeed, the only mention of anthrax is the reference to Sufaat on page. 168. The Report does not even touch on other possible links between anthrax and the 9-11 hijackers, such as an emergency room doctor in Florida reporting to the FBI that he had treated one of the hijackers for a black lesion that resembled anthrax.
#2
the headline makes it sounds like the Doc was part of the search team, aka Govt authorities, aka part if the Bush administration who is now facing assault charges because he's part of the BushCheneyHalliburtonCoFascistHitler Brigade. My news service on my pager also made it sound like this doctor was part of the search of homes, just like this headline does.
If they can word any story, any story at all the partisan press will spin it to attack the Bush administration. I don't thing I'm reading too far into this either. Or am I?
Posted by: Chris W. ||
08/06/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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I think this is yet another example of the FBI avoiding the obvious, because it's too painful for some of the PC FBI officers to believe that Iraq intelligence officers, or for that matter, any ME Muslim to be the only terrorist "evil doers" in the USA. First they ruined the career of Dr. Hatfelt[sp?]. Now it's this other doctor. What about connecting the dots to ME'ers? No, no, no because the FBI wants to nail a white male for the anthrax come hell or high water to prove that ME'ers are not the only "evil doers" in the land. Stupid.
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 11:48 Comments ||
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As for the suggestion that the lack of activity for PREEMPTION was due to a change in administrations, the site very clearly demonstrates that the company ran out of gas in 1998. Please note in my link three that I also speculate as to the qualifications of this doctor. In at least one news story that I have read he has been described as a "self-proclaimed expert in WMD". His CV shows zero work that would lead one to call him expert. I speculate on a number of the statments in his CV, in fact, that have proved difficult to corroberate.
His specialty is listed as Family Medicine, but that would not preclude him from working in an Emergency Department. It's only been since 1980 or so that Emergency Medicine has beome recognized as a "specialty" and applying for such accredition is entirely voluntary. With the shortage of physicians as it is and ER being a non-sexy, poorly paid "specialty" I'm sure Dr. Berry would not have had any problem being hired for ER work and carrying out his duties well enough.
The reason Dr. Berry may have marketed himself as knowledgeable in Bio/chemical weapons is because ER docs would be the medical professionals most likely to see these cases as they came up. I don't think there's a WMD sub specialty in med school, if that's what you are getting at, #4. http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic864.htm
Who knows? maybe you and the FBI are right...this guy is the one...to profit off anthrax vaccination? to drive home the dangers of anthrax weaponry because he was ignored by authorities?
But my gut feeling is that the anthrax scare will have a ROP connection when all is said and done.
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 14:24 Comments ||
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#6
Sorry, the AMA doctor finder link I provided got timed out. Information on:
Kenneth Michael Berry MD
Physicians -- Update your data
Location:WELLSVILLE, NY 14895
Office Phone:585-593-1100
Primary Specialty (Self Designated) (note):
FAMILY MEDICINE
Medical School:
AMERICAN UNIV OF THE CARIBBEAN, SCH OF MED, PLYMOUTH, MONTSERRAT
Residency Training:
ST JOSEPH'S MED CTR, FAMILY MEDICINE
WILSON MEM REG MED CTR, GENERAL SURGERY
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#7
rex, I'm not arguing that he's not an M.D. His CV is, at best, incomplete, and at worst, inaccurate. My belief is that an expert in WMD should appear on the Net as an author or speaker or something. This is a guy whose sole appearance on the net is a vanity website that he set up.
#10
This guy is a zero. The American Univ of the Caribbean is a fifth pathway school -- guys from the East Coast go there when they can't get into a US medical school, and they then try to transfer to an American med school (the "fifth pathway") prior to graduation. Used to work some (the Carter administration tried to make it mandatory for US med schools to accept fifth pathway transfers, but the med schools told them to shove it). But in the last decade or so transfers are almost completely shut down.
So our bright boy graduates from AUC. He is NOT going to get a good residency in the states in any specialty. St. Joseph's Med Ctr -- which St. Joe's, there are a number of them. He did a community hospital residency in family medicine, probably a free-standing residency not affiliated with a university. Ick. Training is mediocre, more like an apprenticeship, with (mostly) a non-dedicated teaching staff and relatively few opportunities to distinguish himself.
Regardless, he gets a certification in family medicine. I'd like to know what the 2nd residency was all about. The AMA page doesn't specify the order of residencies done, so I don't know if the surgery residency was first (and he asked to leave) or second. But he's not a certified surgeon, so he obviously didn't complete it. And "Wilson Memorial Regional Medical Center" isn't a stellar residency, either (Googled it to Johnston City, NY).
Rex is correct, there is no specialty training in WMD per se. Physicians with expertise in biologicals generally would be infectious disease specialists. For any, the Emergency Medicine docs would be expected to have good, basic knowledge in triage and treatment, but they wouldn't be expected to have in-depth knowledge as to pathophysiology, research, etc.
Rex is also correct in noting that, especially for small hospitals in rural America, a family medicine doc who wanted to be an ER "specialist" could be one. Emergency Medicine as a specialty is a new idea, but their residency programs are cranking out graduates. Those new docs tend to cluster in better-supported, more desirable places to live. But if he wanted to be an ER doc in Wellsville, he could do it.
This is getting long. Chuck, I'll e-mail you with more.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/06/2004 18:19 Comments ||
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#11
Here' a photo of Dr. Berry-he'd fit the type of guy the FBI would suspect from the get-go: http://www.preempt.net/
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 18:56 Comments ||
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#12
My tin foil hat was sending a strange signal, so I looked at the picture at the link rex provided and read the attached fluff graf. Either the link is full of inaccuracies or the guy seems qualified:
"Kenneth M. Berry is president of the American Academy of Emergency Physicians and a member of the board and special counsel to the chair of the Board of Certification  in Emergency Medicine. He serves as director of emergency services at the Jones Memorial Hospital in Wellsville, NY. Berry is also a fellow of the American Academy of Family Practice, the American College of Forensic Medicine and the American College of Forensic Examiners. He has considerable experience in forensic investigations of aircraft accidents, including the case of the July 1996 TWA flight 800 crash in Long Island, NY. Berry is a member of Phi Sigma Tau, the National Honor Society of Philosophy, and has written many papers and given numerous lectures on bio-ethics issues. He has a multi-instrument rating as a commercial pilot, and is an aviation medical examiner with the Federal Aviation Administration. Berry is a graduate of Fairfield University and the American University of the Caribbean School of Medicine. He held several medical student clerkships predominately at the Yale University School of Medicine."
Very interesting guy.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/06/2004 20:10 Comments ||
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#13
multi-instrument rating?
ima always been able to look at the speedometer and the radio dial within the scan. Also have been known to take in the temperature guage (if it working that day).
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 20:51 Comments ||
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#15
I think that it should read "multi-engine" rating. An instrument rating is a separate rating. Could be in singles or multiengine aircraft. My guess is that if he is multi-engine rated he is also an instrument rated pilot.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/06/2004 22:04 Comments ||
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Don't know if this was posted the other day. A 4th article on that flight from Detroit to LA that Annie Jacobsen wrote. Glad she's a NYer...keep after 'em.
Posted by: BA ||
08/06/2004 10:13:15 AM ||
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#1
Jeez.
So, it looks like this story does warrant more investigation?
#2
Among many other things surrounding this debacle, this one makes less than zero sense:
I also learned from one of Mehana's U.S. promoters (not Cullen, but a different promoter who books the band) that the cost to book Mehana for one night is $32,000. (I don't know if this includes travel, room and board for 15 men.) If we go middle of the road and assume $27 per ticket for 350 people, the take at the door for the Sycuan show was about $9,450. That puts someone in the hole for $22,550, plus possibly travel, room and board. Even if we assume the casino made some money on gambling, food and alcohol, that's a big negative outlay for a night of Syrian music. Admittedly, I'm new to this area. So perhaps some of you who follow world music can explain the cost-effectiveness of 15 men flying around for a money-losing proposition.
As mentioned before, there must be existing Syrian music bands already here in the USA. What chain of events made if useful or (supposedly) profitable for this group to come here at such great expense? If this simple question cannot be satisfactorily resolved, it casts suspicion upon all of the group's actions.
#3
So, it looks like this story does warrant more investigation? It looks like a fuckup to me
So sad, too bad, the FBI is too busy tearing apart the home and career of Dr. Berry, an American M.D.[possibly a Christian? horrors!] who has done joint speaking engagements with former Senator Sam Nunn. First things first.
Fifteen Syrian band members on expired Visas with one way tickets to the USA will have to go into File 13.
Our taxpayers' dollars at work. Nice.
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 21:35 Comments ||
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#4
Zen - I live < 5 miles from Sycuan - much as I would like to argue that the neg. balance from the concert argues it was a mission, chances are the concert was a loss-leader that the casino more than recoups - ME's along with Asians are targetted gamblers - they play/win/LOSE big
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 22:00 Comments ||
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Posted by: tipper ||
08/06/2004 9:45:30 AM ||
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#1
I remember sitting at five in the morning, exhausted, after going from link to link to link to link, starring at the face of Osama bin Laden. This man does not have the face of a cold blooded killer. This is not a Charles Manson. There has to be something more.
#3
She was feeling guilty about the sucess she has had in her and rather than work to help someone else she would rather destroy the society that allowed her to be sucessful.
Posted by: Formerly Dan ||
08/06/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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#4
"I am Muslim, who like many others, embraced Islam as the result of 911." Nice submissive sheep, just what Isalm needs. Not for me honey, I like my pork, drink, and bare-ankled women. Pitiful your just pitiful.
#6
Made it all the way to page three before hitting this turd nugget:
Although I grieved for the precious lives that were lost on September the 11th, combined with the hundreds of thousands that died as the result of the brutalities carried out under the banner of American Foreign Policy, these were a mere drop in the bucket.
F%&king apologist! Hundreds of thousands? WHAT ABOUT THE UNTOLD MILLIONS WHO HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF NAZIS, COMMUNISTS AND ISLAMISTS? Taking America to task for lives lost in the Arab-Israeli conflict is like blaming the Eskimoes for declining whale populations. @sshole!
From The Council on American-Islamic Relations
We condemn these vicious attacks in the strongest terms possible. The identity of the perpetrators is not known, but their motive of creating religious divisions is obvious. Harming those engaged in worship violates the principles of all faiths. Religiously and historically, Islam mandated the protection of churches and synagogues. The Prophet Muhammad and his successors sought to protect houses of worship and the communities they serve. We offer condolences to the families of those killed and injured, and call for increased security measures at all religious sites in Iraq.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/06/2004 12:13:41 AM ||
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#1
camelshit--the profiteer muhammid said you can't build new churches-can't repair old ones-and no church can be higher than a mosque--he also said pay the poll tax[jizya] in a humiliating fashion or be offed--cair members should be tushy banged by a pig
Posted by: son of tolui ||
08/06/2004 0:34 Comments ||
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#2
How touching. Now let's see CAIR prove that their Texas branch wasn't helping to finance those who destroyed the Iraqi churches. Shouting that you don't like terrorism pie doesn't stand for much when you're caught with your fingers buried in it.
From The Council on American Islamic Relations
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today announced that it has joined with more than 70 other faith-based, humanitarian and human rights groups in signing a "Unity Statement and Call to Action" in response to the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Darfur, Sudan. .... the statement calls for specific actions that include worldwide efforts to stop population displacement and end crimes against humanity, governmental humanitarian support and access to match the need, support for relief organizations providing aid, the rebuilding of villages and the return of those displaced, and the creation of a UN commission of inquiry. ....
CAIR has urged American Muslims to send donations to Islamic relief organizations working in Darfur. .... Other Muslim groups signing the statement include the Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic American Relief Agency, Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, and the American Sufi Muslim Association. .... In addition to the statement, the Save Darfur Coalition is sponsoring a national Interfaith Day of Conscience on Wednesday, August 25, in churches, synagogues, mosques, and community centers nationwide.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/06/2004 12:09:08 AM ||
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#1
Every dollar donated will go towards killing and displacing christians in Darfur. "Islamic relief organizations", my ass. There's no such thing.
#2
If nobody but the master race is in Darfur, there's no crisis ther, is there? CAIR's the enemy
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 0:27 Comments ||
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#3
"to send donations to Islamic relief organizations working in Darfur"
wait a second. isn't the basic problem in Sudan that the arab muslims are killing, raping and displacing the christians? So what does CAIR mean by "islamic relief?" Are the rapists getting tired or something?
#5
Arab muslims killing raping other animist, christians, and non-arab muslims. RB'ers have been on this often enough for me to accurately say your snarky little comment is a piece of shit, Aris. F*&k you
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/06/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#6
"Arab muslims killing raping other animist, christians, and non-arab muslims"
Animists and Christians are in South Sudan. Darfur is only black muslims.
"RB'ers have been on this often enough for me to accurately say your snarky little comment is a piece of shit, Aris. F*&k you"
Yeah, you've told me that before. But my comment about most Rantburgers stands.
#8
Update: In retrospect, it's because I view as a step in the right direction, taking problems out on each other rather than on some other ethnic group, step towards actually dealing with the issues once all the gunnies killed each other off.
#9
This isn't muslim on muslim. It's racial cultural cleansing. It's economic rape as well. Those blacks could care less about mecca. They could care less about speaking rote arabic mantras. This is the place to turn islam back upon itself. This is the place to start the destruction of jihad. This is the place for islamic reformation. Those black bastards can be turned!
#11
Aris, that is a simplistic assessment of Rantburgers. It also doesn't take into account the entire spectrum of peoples in the world who have stood by happily as Muslims were killed, raped and displaced. One example would have to include your own European comrades for doing nothing but talk about the Yugoslav problem in their own backyard while Muslims there were killed, raped, and displaced.
#12
Aris, that is a simplistic assessment of Rantburgers.
There are always bright exceptions. Liberalhawk cares. *You* perhaps care, I don't remember your own take on this and similar issues.
But already we've had two folk above that hastened to provide examples for my argument -- one of them sees black muslim lives important only in the way he feels they can be "turned" to Christianity, the other one freely admits he doesn't care about them at all.
My feeling about this is that most Rantburgers resemble the Dcreeper/Lucky spectrum rather than Liberalhawk in their interests to preserve lives of muslims.
As for my "own European comrades" there are what, five hundred millions of them, from several dozens of different countries? I confess to finding it much more difficult in making blanket statements about such a large amount of people.
#13
Perhaps you are right. If there was a governmental power among the 500,000,000 in Europe which not only wanted, but fought to stop the killing, raping, and displacement of Muslims, I imagine I'd have heard of it by now, but I'll bite...Were any governments ACTING to stop it prior to our involvement?
I admit I wasn't aware that Rantburg was involved in Bosnia.
But if you are referring to NATO involvement, then no I've not heard of any governments acting individually to stop it outside NATO. Whether in Europe, in Asia or in the Americas.
And no, I don't know which of the NATO nations argued for involvement and which against it either.
Febby Firmansyah's face is scarred, his arms disfigured from the bomb explosion at Jakarta's Marriott Hotel a year ago. But he told two militants on trial for the attack that he forgave them, and then confronted them - Muslim to Muslim - on the error of their ways.
"I asked them what they were thinking," Firmansyah said of his emotional meeting with the defendants at police headquarters earlier this year. "There is nothing in the Quran that tells people to kill other believers."
Firmansyah is 27, an oil company worker at an office near the hotel. Last Aug. 5, a suicide bomber from the militant group Jemaah Islamiyah drove a vehicle packed with explosives, gasoline and nails up to the lobby doors of the Marriott and blew it up.
Firmansyah suffered second-degree burns across more than half his body and spent three months in the hospital, much of it in isolation to protect his raw flesh from infection.
Firmansyah said he wanted to meet the men, known by the single names Tohir and Ismail, who are on trial for allegedly planning the bombing. He wanted to let them "know the effect of their actions," he said.
"When they saw me, they cried and hugged me and got down on their knees and asked for forgiveness. They said they were sorry and that they will pray for me," Firmansyah said.
"They said they did it for jihad ... to cleanse ... [Indonesia] of Americans. I said jihad is not like that."
Firmansyah's willingness to take on the attackers is unusual in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation. Authorities have arrested and convicted scores of militants since 2001, but religious leaders and many senior politicians are unwilling to outlaw Jemaah Islamiyah or acknowledge that Muslims are often the victims of militant terrorism.
Jemaah Islamiyah also was accused in the 2002 attacks on the island of Bali that killed 202 people, mainly tourists.
The bombers of the Marriott attacked at lunchtime to cause maximum casualties, succeeding in killing 12 people and wounding more than 100. All but one of those who died and the vast majority of the wounded were Indonesians, most of them Muslims.
The high Muslim death toll caused a split within Jemaah Islamiyah - a loose collection of radicals across Southeast Asia - over the morality of attacking soft targets such as shopping malls and hotels, some analysts have said.
A year after the hotel attack, security is tighter throughout Jakarta, and no further such attacks have occurred.
But Firmansyah, like the bombing's other victims, struggles with the consequences. He goes to a physical therapist three or four times a week hoping to regain the use of his right hand. He will need skin grafts on his arms in coming months.
He's back at work in an office overlooking the hotel, which reopened a month after the blast.
"I felt being in the Marriott was my destiny," he said. "And now God has given me a second chance to live."
Posted by: tipper ||
08/06/2004 2:25:30 AM ||
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When they saw me, they cried and hugged me and got down on their knees and asked for forgiveness.
Yes, yes. Of course. They've "repented".
Think they'd blow you up again if they had the chance?
Here's the start of the article, you have to be subscriber for the full piece.
From WSJ today:
By ZAHID HUSSAIN, JAMES HOOKWAY, YAROSLAV TROFIMOV and JAY SOLOMON
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
August 6, 2004; Page A1
Recent arrests and a spate of intelligence tie many of the past decade's major terrorist incidents -- and some recently interrupted plots -- to a single, clannish al Qaeda branch set up by 9/11 architect Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.
The group includes one Mohammed nephew, Ramzi Yousef, who was convicted for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and another, Musaad Aruchi, who masterminded attacks in Pakistan. In addition, Mr. Mohammed's tribal allies from Pakistan have been linked to other attacks and plots in Africa, Southeast Asia, the U.K. and the U.S.
Nephew Ammar al-Baluchi helped facilitate travel and financing for senior al Qaeda operative Riduan Isamuddin to carry out terrorist attacks in Southeast Asia. Mr. Riduan's agents were behind the October 2002 bombing on the Indonesian island of Bali that killed more than 200 people.
Terrorism experts say relatives and close associates of Mr. Mohammed -- known as KSM in the intelligence community -- also have taken leading roles in attacks inside Pakistan in recent months and have cooperated with senior al Qaeda agents to plan recent operations from New York to London to Johannesburg. Among their plots, investigators say: attacking financial institutions in the U.S. and London's Heathrow Airport.
Also this week, files on a computer belonging to an al Qaeda operative linked to Mr. Mohammed led British authorities to arrest Abu Moussa al-Hindi, a U.K. citizen suspected of involvement in reconnaissance of possible terrorism targets.
Pakistani officials haven't indicated whether other members of Mr. Mohammed's family or wider clan are believed to be still active in plotting terrorist attacks. They also didn't specify what other actions might be taken to ward off any future plots from this group.
#5
15 is primarily now a groundstrike bird. The "Starship" (As the ADF version is known) is very long in the tooth. An F16C Block 50 or better would be a better adversary - and the F/A-18G is probably the best all around aircraft fielded by the US these days.
Other things to consider: There were no AWACS involved from the US, but Indian battlespace radars (IN line with old Soviet/Russian doctine of Positive Control) was used to give the Indian pilots guidance to the target in EM quite fashion - without being challenged with Wild Weasel SEAD/IRON-Hand strike on it.
SO basically the Indians were given vectoring to the US Aircraft, the US Aircraft were left blind, and it was a simple "Jump 'em" dogfighting, with the US forces going in blind and dumb.
Even so - they should have had a better accounting than a 9 to 1 combat loss ratio.
Some of that is attributable to air crew training - after all US Air Superiority pilots mainly work against airliners and stray Cessnas these days, and most of them are in the mud moving business doing ground support in the GWOT. So their training (especially dissimilar aircraft training) was probably not where it should be (thus the reason for exercises like these).
Secondarily, the F15 is not a dogfighter, the newer Sukhois are. And with the newer standoff missles the Russian hs, they now have "long enough arms" to force the US to fight straight up (The AMRAAM is outranged by some of the more modern Russian AA missles), and in a straight up dogfight, the 15 is at a disadvantage over higher T/W different wing-load birds, like the SUs, some MiGs, the FA-18 and even the F-16.
Bottom line - remember the age difference between the F15 and the SU's in the story is the same between Sopwith Camel or Spad and the Me-109 or Japanese A6 (Zero). (1918 to 1940 = 1975 to 1997 = 22 years).
So yes, its time to update our aricraft, but to also see how they woule do with the full suite of weaponry and sensors and tactics that the US uses (including SEAD, WW, satellites, PAVE units, AWACS, ECM, ECCM, attacking the C3I of the enemy with TLAM/Cruise and things like that like).
#8
Oldspook's points are well taken, but how long will it be before we are making a double major leap, not just to unmanned aircraft, but to CPB tech aircraft?
Imagine if you will a Mach-7, sub-orbital capable, ram- or scramjet powered fighter-bomber that can take out any aircraft, air-to-air or surface-to-air missile within the range of its laser. For other weapons systems, it might have a rail gun that can propel a beer-can sized advanced ceramic projectile at 6km/sec, or be able to use its laser to turn an enemy aircraft canopy opaque in a fraction of a second.
What manned aircraft could keep up?
#9
That stuff is (probably) being tested right now - UAV's with supersonic engines and stronger airframes, stealthy design.
UAV, aside from putting the Fighter Pilot union members out of a job (How do you know there's a fighter pilot in the bar? He'll tell you!), well they can pull far more G's, take damage, etc. The achilles heel is the delay in reaction due to distance. Speed of light is a limitation for round-trip command of a UAV.
300,000,000 m/s might seem fast, but given that you have to get the signal up, then down, then processed, then up then down, then processed again... 40,000,000 meters is roughly geosync orbit (most comms birds live there 23K miles = 38K Km). so minimum 500ms (half a second) between the initial transmission departing and the response arriving - for an aircraft with a relative closure of 1200 MPH (600mph each) is a shade over 500m/s - meaning the positions of the aircraft are 280-300 meters different than what the guy at the other end saw.
Physics is a bitch - the solution will still require someone running the UAV to be in theater and line of sight, or else a lot of investment in low earth orbit satellites and local groundstations, etc.
#10
But that works off an assumption of real-time commands for split second decisions. In practice, that would almost have to be done with artificial intelligence. "You are located at 'A': Move to location 'B': Engage enemy at target 'C'"
Basically the same principal as fly-by-wire, the human input giving the general direction and the computer doing the detail work far faster than a human could.
A revolution is taking place in the air force: ten years after the IAF was forced to open the doors to its prestigious training course to women, the air force is showing initiative and is showing off a unique combat squadron that composed solely by women.
In the new squadron, all positions are staffed by members of the fairer sex: from the combat pilot to the operations officer, training officer, air traffic control sergeant right down to the ground technician.
Snip
The IAF explains that senior positions, such as squadron command requires experiences and as time passes, these positions will be filled by women as well. Major General Eliezar Shkedi referred to his vision regarding the integration of women in the air force and emphasized: "We have an excellent combat squadron, not just a good one. Women will be given every opportunity to do whatever they are capable of."
#2
Ahhh ... Arab humiliation writ large across the skies. What's not to like? I hope they use this team to cap Hamas and al Aqsa poobahs on a routine basis. What better than Israeli military women to snuff these repressive violent b@stards? Massive seething to begin in 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...
#3
I've always thought women could make very fine fighter pilots. Also, it strikes me that women could be good snipers. Good for Israel!
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 16:44 Comments ||
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Rex - women make excellent shooters! - At the NRA High Power nationals at Camp Perry look for the return of the Woman Champion, Marine S/Sgt Julia Watson Service Rifle Champion, Marine CWO Dennis DeMille, and, at Long Range, defending champion Nancy Tompkins-Gallagher.
#5
Will they still call it a âcockpitâ or something else? And what? So which Arab nation is going to be the first one to lose and airplane to this new squadron?
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A U.S. regulatory agency has dismissed the petition of a conservative advocacy group to bar TV ads for Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary as a breach of federal restrictions on "electioneering" activity.
A week before Pakistan's first nuclear tests in May 1998, then prime minister Nawaz Sharif received a late night telephone call from a Saudi prince. India, Pakistan's arch-rival, had conducted nuclear tests that month and Mr Sharif was weighing the consequences of following suit. As Mr Sharif told a hurriedly organised meeting of senior officials, the Saudi prince had offered up to 50,000 barrels of oil a day to Pakistan for an indefinite period on deferred payment terms. This would allow Pakistan to overcome the impact of punitive western sanctions expected after the tests. The Saudi message, delivered on behalf of Crown Prince Abdullah, the de facto ruler, once again bailed out Pakistan at a difficult moment. "It is possible that Pakistan may still have conducted its nuclear tests without the Saudi oil. But the tests would have been done with the knowledge that the economic fallout was going to be far more severe," says a former aide to Mr Sharif.
Saudi financial support has fuelled suspicions of nuclear co-operation between the two countries. A senior US official says Saudi finance helped fund Pakistan's nuclear programme, allowing it among other things to buy nuclear technology from China. Officials discount the possibility of Pakistani help to build an indigenous Saudi nuclear weapon. But they say there could be a sort of "lend-lease arrangement" that would allow weapons from Pakistan to be made available to Saudi Arabia. "The argument that they have options on Pakistan's arsenal is more likely," the US official says.
Both Saudi and Pakistani officials vehemently deny the existence of any such deal. "We've never given money aimed at nuclear research and development and so we never asked or received privileges to nuclear weapons programmes," insists Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former Saudi intelligence chief. Nawaf Obeid, a Saudi security consultant close to the government, however, suggests the kingdom enjoys Pakistan's security umbrella without any formal agreement. "We gave money and they dealt with it as they saw fit," he says of the Pakistanis. "There's no documentation but there is an implicit understanding that on everything, in particular on security and military issues, Pakistan would be there for Saudi Arabia."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/06/2004 1:31:00 PM ||
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...Everybody here does know those wacky Al-Sauds have IRBMs...
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/06/2004 14:44 Comments ||
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"The argument that they have options on Pakistanâs arsenal is more likely," the US official says.
Both Saudi and Pakistani officials vehemently deny the existence of any such deal. "Weâve never given money aimed at nuclear research and development and so we never asked or received privileges to nuclear weapons programmes," insists Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former Saudi intelligence chief.
How is it that whenever there is a really gruesome turn of events, Prince Turki al-Faisal turns up like a bad Dinar? Whether it's hob-nobbing with bin Laden or mullah Omar, possibly providing blank passports to terrorists or sending materiel to the Taleban, this putrid @sshole always floats to the surface.
Whatever story Prince Turki al-Faisal denies is probably true. The House of Saud has outlived its own usefulness. They serve no further purpose in this world save to ensure their own continued farting through silk.
During the past three years, the 19 Arabs who carried out the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington have received many labels, including "Islamist".
Without knowing it, however, they were, in fact, "Occidentalists".
This is the message of "Occidentalism: A Short History of Anti-Westernism"", an engaging essay by Ian Buruma and Avishai Margalit, professors at Bard College in New York and Hebrew University of Jerusalem respectively.
The authors define Occidentalism as the "dehumanizing picture of the West painted by its enemies". They chose the term as a nod to "Orientalism", coined 25 years ago by the late American polemicist Edward Said to describe the vision that Western "Imperialists" supposedly developed of the East in the 19th and early 20th century.
The word-play is rather unfortunate.
The "Orientalists" did not hate the people of the East and, although some developed fantasies about the "Orient", did not belittle the cultures that they studied. Without the "Orientalists", ancient civilisations such as the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Persians and the Chinese may never have been rediscovered and studied. And the most important body of research on Islam has been done, not by Muslim scholars, but by the same "Orientalists" that Said vilified. Champolion, Rawlinson, Goddard and Rypka, not to mention Bernard Lewis today, could not be compared to Hitler, Stalin, Osama bin Laden and Muhammad Ata.
Presenting hatred of the West as a form of Manichaean dualism is also problematic. In Manichaeanism, and the Christian dualisms, such as the Paulicans and the Cathares that it inspired, evil is a necessary principle of cosmogony and not an object of hatred.
What is this " West" that Occidentalists hate and wish to destroy?
The authors do not offer a definition.
At some points they sail so close to the wind as to suggest that Aristotle, somehow, represented " the West", because he sought to understand the world through reason while Plato, and his philosophical descendants, given to mysticism, were "Occidentalists". More broadly, ancient Athens represented " the West" while Sparta was "Occidentalist".
The "Occidentalists" , we are told, hate the West for four reasons: The West prefers the sinful city to the virtuous countryside; the West replaces heroism with commerce; the West thinks only of matter and not of spirit; the West worships evil.
Such juxtapositions, however, are too general to explain the intention of the authors which is to explain why there are people prepared to die while killing Americans, Europeans and Israelis.
The city versus country part of the argument dos not apply to Islam because Islam has been a religion of cities from the start. Mecca was regarded as " the sinful city" by the Bedouin who roamed in the " virtuous" desert of Arabia. Today, of the world's six most populous cities three are Muslim.
The claim that the West destroys heroism and honour in favour of commerce has been applied to many civilisations at different times. Xenophon thought that of ancient Athens and Juvenal lambasted ancient Rome for it. The Jews looked down at "Chaldae, that land of the traders" (Ezekiel:16:32) while they themselves were later caricaturised in the same way. Napoleon dismissed the English as " a nation of shopkeepers", while the Parsees in India and the ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia get similar labels from their Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim compatriots.
The charge that the West thinks only of matter, not of the spirit is, as Buruma and Margalit observe, a product of European, mainly German Romanticism, itself an eminently Western product. Finally, the image of the West as evil incarnate is , in origin at least, a product of the schisms that have torn Christianity asunder since its adoption by Constantine as the faith of the Roman Empire. Today's Islamists do not regard Westerners as "evil" but , in the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, as "wayward creatures" that must be prodded back onto the right part towards " the Only True Faith", i.e. Islam.
The reader ends up by assuming that the term " the West", as used by Buruma and Margalit means all liberal societies while "Occidentalism" is an umbrella term for all forms of totalitarianism throughout history. This leads the authors to suggest that wars waged against Western democracies in the name of the "Russian soul", the "Aryan race", the "state Shinto", Communism, and Islamism have the same origin. An intriguing thought.
What makes this elegant essay especially valuable is its core message, as expressed in these lines: " The bourgeois, often philistine, un-heroic, anti-utopian nature of the liberal civilisation can make it difficult to defendâŠ.The Weimar republic did not fall only because of Nazi brutality, reactionary stupidity, military ambitions, or the arguments formulated by {fascist theorists}. It also fell because too few people were prepared to defend it." END
Posted by: tipper ||
08/06/2004 10:32:55 AM ||
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Nice intellectual article. Thanks for posting. ...This leads the authors to suggest that wars waged against Western democracies in the name of the "Russian soul", the "Aryan race", the "state Shinto", Communism, and Islamism have the same origin..." The bourgeois, often philistine, un-heroic, anti-utopian nature of the liberal civilisation can make it difficult to defendâ¦.The Weimar republic did not fall only because of Nazi brutality, reactionary stupidity, military ambitions, or the arguments formulated by {fascist theorists}. It also fell because too few people were prepared to defend it."
Posted by: rex ||
08/06/2004 13:22 Comments ||
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RAWALPINDI: Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said on Thursday the arrested foreign terrorists are being questioned by Pakistani agencies and no foreign investigators were involved.
He means the CIA/FBI.
Talking informally to newsmen here at the handing over ceremony of a consignment of wheat to Afghanistan, he said if any foreign government wants to have counsellor access to their nationals, they will have to approach the Foreign Office according to the international laws.
That would be directed to Africa, I believe.
"Those arrested in connection with acts of terrorism and subversion are being investigated and there is no chance of their being handed over to any foreign country before the completion of our investigations," he said.
"WE haven't finished beating questioning them yet."
The minister said the Pakistani authorities have gleaned ample information from the arrested foreign and Pakistani terrorists and such information is being shared with other countries on a reciprocal basis as Pakistan is a member of the international coalition in the fight against terrorism. He said the foreign terrorist, Ahmed Khalfan, has a bounty of up to $20 million on his head. There is another terrorist with a head money of several million dollars.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/06/2004 8:36:00 AM ||
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Wow, talk about an inferiority complex... Of course, the same lame thoughtless every-way-you-turn-you-lose / do-you-still-beat-your-wife sort of questions are regularly posed by Western Media, as well. The difference is that Scotty doesn't have to duck and cover over such trivia like Musharref's poor spokesdinks.
To hell with the old saw, in with the new saw... "First we kill all the 'journalists'..."
#2
Responding to a question about Pakistan-China anti-terror exercises, the minister said the two countries have common perceptions to foment fight terrorism, therefore, these exercises are in accordance with their shared objectives.
Pakistan and China's proliferation of nuclear technology makes these two countries the nucleus of terror central. The only people they fool are those idiotic enough to believe that Islamist terrorism is not a significant threat. Sadly, that's about 90% of the world's population, journalistic or otherwise.
via Al Guardian - EFL Israel flouts road map with new settlement
Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv - Friday August 6, 2004
Israel has announced plans for thousands of homes in a new settlement near Jerusalem, ignoring its undertaking in the road map to freeze settlement activity.
The proposed settlement, on 1,518 hectares (3,750 acres) of West Bank land, would be sited between Jerusalem and the settlement of Ma'ale Adumim and provide a bridge between them.
It has been planned secretly for several months and yesterday bulldozers and diggers were preparing roads for fu ture building. The settlement would ring Palestinian east Jerusalem, making it impossible for east Jerusalem to be the capital of a Palestinian state.
Earlier this week the US condemned Israel's announcement that a further 600 homes would be built in Ma'ale Adumim, where 28,000 Israelis live. The US has also said that Israel has done little to dismantle the illegal outposts which have sprung up in recent years. Britain has also expressed concern at the expansion of settlements in violation of the road map. ...more - if you can take it...
How can anyone, anyone, still maintain the farce that the Road Map is now, or ever was, viable. Certainly, after years of utter and abject failure, amidst the imploding Paleo balance of competing tyrannies, and given the obscenely obvious financial rape of all the suckers who've sunk time and money into PaleoLand it seems beyond absurd that anyone would try to float this slab of lead. There are a lot of insane people in the world. Many work in the MSM, at State, and at the UK FM. Wotta seriously lame pretense. Only the Diplodinks would be so twittish and only the MSM so gullible.
Posted by: .com ||
08/06/2004 12:43:53 AM ||
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Oh, yeah! The "road map"!
I thought that had reached "trivia question answer" status by now.
Via Daily Pundit:
4,000 terrorists imprisoned by Israel, including 600 serving life sentences, have begun a hunger strike, vowing to continue to the death. The strike surrounds demands for improved conditions, including physical contact during visits and permission to use cellular telephones.
"Ethel! Some gruel for our guests!"
Posted by: Seafarious ||
08/06/2004 12:40:26 AM ||
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A hunger strike to the death? For once I'm 100% in favor of the terrorists achieving their goals! Don't give up boys - you can do it. I'm rooting for ya!
#6
Sounds like a deal. Pile up the Kosher food at the mess hall and let 'em strike. Works for me. Sorry about the phones and physical contact. No can do.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/06/2004 9:51 Comments ||
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#7
They're just going to run their terrorism operations from jail if they get their cell phones. The Israelis should let them do it, then listen to their conversations and use them to find any terrorists at large. As for physical contact: they're trying to get something smuggled in and they're trying to maybe get conjugal visits.
The guards could really have some fun with this. Tell the terrorists that a memorial wall is being built to celebrate their heroism. Once their egos are fully engaged, tell them that their faces are being painted on the wall alongside curses against Allah, forever associating terrorists with apostasy. This kind of fame might make them want to stick around a while.
#15
I think the Hollowwood LLL should join them in solidarity. GO BOYZ GO! I am staring a group called Veterans that Support Islamists Hunger Strikes. To help you guys out we will go to Hooters every day and make sure none of their food or beverage makes it to Israel. I will hoist a beer in Solidarity tonight for you! P.S. My daughter wants one of those buses!
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
