Article

2024-04-07 -Land of the Free

The Army Has Finally Fielded Its Next Generation Squad Weapons

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Posted by Beldar+Uneter3543 2024-04-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [464 views ] Top

#1 I gotta hope these units are mission configurable.

Vortex Optics XM157 Overview: The Next Generation Squad Weapon-Fire Control (NGSW-FC)

Posted by Skidmark 2024-04-07 00:19|| 2024-04-07 00:19|| Front Page Top

#2 I notice everybody goes for bigger calibres.

Posted by Grom the Reflective 2024-04-07 01:01|| 2024-04-07 01:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Something old, something new.

Circa 1901- Rifle used by this long distance left handed shooter, 1895 Chilean contract 7x57 Mauser. Notice the sight elevation.

Posted by Besoeker 2024-04-07 05:07|| 2024-04-07 05:07|| Front Page Top

#4 #3 I see several with elevated sights.

Posted by Dale 2024-04-07 06:15|| 2024-04-07 06:15|| Front Page Top

#5 So why not just go back to the old 7.62 round? Fewer rounds per pound but with all the sighting gear you should need less rounds to put on target. Reduces your logistics.

Posted by Procopius2k 2024-04-07 07:59|| 2024-04-07 07:59|| Front Page Top

#6 /\ Foreign Military Sales marketing ploy. A new round requires a new rifle.

Posted by Besoeker 2024-04-07 08:09|| 2024-04-07 08:09|| Front Page Top

#7 The 6.8 / 277 Fury is a superior round. The bullet has better ballistic properties and the muzzle velocity is greater than the 7.62 round.

The upped performance is all about effective range and defeating improved body armor.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 08:34|| 2024-04-07 08:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Just remember, before the Army fell in love with this Sig, it fell in love with an H&K model that turned out to be a pig.
They're always excited about buying a new one.

Posted by ed in texas 2024-04-07 09:21|| 2024-04-07 09:21|| Front Page Top

#9 The MIC wouldn't have it any other way.

Posted by DooDahMan 2024-04-07 10:19|| 2024-04-07 10:19|| Front Page Top

#10 The 6.8 / 277 Fury is a superior round. The bullet has better ballistic properties and the muzzle velocity is greater than the 7.62 round.

Nice. However, why not improve the 7.62 round that is concurrently employed in the M60/M240 medium general purpose machinegun.

Posted by Zebulon Claviter5377 2024-04-07 10:32|| 2024-04-07 10:32|| Front Page Top

#11 ^ was me.

Posted by Procopius2k 2024-04-07 10:32|| 2024-04-07 10:32|| Front Page Top

#12 HORRORS! Another assault gun! Isn't anyone wanting to keep from hammering at the snowflakes tender feewings? Another apocalyptic meltdown is on the way!

(Sorry. My coffee just kicked in and I felt the need to expostulate!)

Posted by AlmostAnonymous5839 2024-04-07 10:49|| 2024-04-07 10:49|| Front Page Top

#13 ...but this one is beige not that sinister evil black thingy.

Posted by Procopius2k 2024-04-07 13:11|| 2024-04-07 13:11|| Front Page Top

#14 why not improve the 7.62 round

It would make it heavier and all the rifles/machine guns that fired it would need retooled to handle the additional pressure in the chamber. Cheaper to make a new rifle and round.

So why not just go back to the old 7.62 round?
They tried that at first with the M-14 and while it is a beautiful dedicated marksman rifle, it is too heavy and you can't carry enough ammo which is why the military changed to the M-16.

BACKGROUND
So a bit of a history lesson coming. The US adapted the 30-06 back in the early 1900s as it was the best round at the time to be the standard service rifle round. It was definitely a man killer as one through a lung would put a soldier in the KIA category if they didn't get to a surgeon in under an hour. The US continued this in WW2 as the average soldier only carried around 25-30lbs of gear and ammo and could still establish fire superiority with their semi-auto M1 .
The assault rifle changed everything. Suddenly you could fire semi or auto and carry more rounds in a rifle and the M1 would be out gunned and the US units had a hard time establishing fire superiority. They tried their own version of an assault rifle with the M-14 and it failed. So they went with a lighter caliber, the 5.56 and the M-16 so they could fire just as much as the AK and had more (20% more) ammo to do so. This worked fine for the time, but with the appearance of modern body armor the 5.56 just doesn't have the ass to get through a lot of it.
So now we get to the 6.8mm. A loss of a little bit of ammo carry capacity, but more range and more damage at the end. We'll see if this is the new magic zone the 5.56 round occupied for so long or if this is the modern M-14. I think it has some real potential, but only real world action will prove it.

Posted by DarthVader 2024-04-07 13:26|| 2024-04-07 13:26|| Front Page Top

#15 Short answer. The magic number is the BC, AKA ballistic coefficient. Longer bullets for the most part (not always) have better BCs. What happens when you make an already heavy 7.62 bullet longer? Right, Bueller, it gets even heavier. And all that wonderful additional range goes away with the extra weight.

We could have had a .270 bullet when the FAL was being tested back in 1947. But Army brass wanted the .30 and the M14 and actually jiggered the tests to get it.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 13:47|| 2024-04-07 13:47|| Front Page Top

#16 BTW, for those who don't obsess over this stuff - what we call a .270 caliber bullet mics to .277 inch. Which equals 6.8 mm.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 13:50|| 2024-04-07 13:50|| Front Page Top

#17 Lastly. The new cartridge is running chamber pressure of 80,000 psi. The 7.62 is down around 52,000.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 13:55|| 2024-04-07 13:55|| Front Page Top

#18 Backwards compatability with existing AR platform. Put an upper that can handle the chamber pressure on you existing lower and you are good to go.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 14:02|| 2024-04-07 14:02|| Front Page Top

#19 I love my AR-10, Murcek!

Posted by DarthVader 2024-04-07 14:44|| 2024-04-07 14:44|| Front Page Top

#20 ^ Great platform. The current SIG .277 civilian platform is AR-10.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 14:58|| 2024-04-07 14:58|| Front Page Top

#21 At the end of the day, the question is this: Are you more wedded to the "tradition" of a .30 caliber / 7.65 mm cartridge or do you want the best performance that almost 120 years of evolution has brought on since the 30-06 (the 06 is for 1906, OK?)?

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 15:07|| 2024-04-07 15:07|| Front Page Top

#22 ^I'm still waiting for caseless

Posted by Grom the Reflective 2024-04-07 15:31|| 2024-04-07 15:31|| Front Page Top

#23 A great idea that doesn't deliver much advantage for all the other issues it brings. Propellantless would be even better, but the energy has to come from somewhere.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 15:36|| 2024-04-07 15:36|| Front Page Top

#24 In the end, the real answer is eliminate the need for hostile fire. That's a diplomatic problem, not an engineering one.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 15:38|| 2024-04-07 15:38|| Front Page Top

#25 Ref #15: We could have had a .270 bullet when the FAL was being tested back in 1947. But Army brass wanted the .30 and the M14 and actually jiggered the tests to get it.
Posted by M. Murcek

Smoke Bomb Hill Weapons Committee, Fort Bragg recommended the FN-FAL. Big army said "no can do."

You know of what you speak Merc.

Posted by Besoeker 2024-04-07 15:57|| 2024-04-07 15:57|| Front Page Top

#26 I have a DSA SA-58 FAL pistol. It is 7.62. I can only think how sweet it would be in .277

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 16:08|| 2024-04-07 16:08|| Front Page Top

#27 I'm no expert. For all I know the new weapons are excellent. But it seems to me the last time we won a war of any consequence it was with the M1.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2024-04-07 16:22|| 2024-04-07 16:22|| Front Page Top

#28 Yes. Fight the last war. It always works out so well.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 16:27|| 2024-04-07 16:27|| Front Page Top

#29 The M1 didn't win anything. Troops with clear ROE won.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 16:38|| 2024-04-07 16:38|| Front Page Top

#30 Yes, M, I understand all that. I guess I'm just wondering what new dust up our leaders are planning just to see how these new weapons work in actual combat.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2024-04-07 17:04|| 2024-04-07 17:04|| Front Page Top

#31 ^ We need better leaders more than better weapons.

Posted by M. Murcek 2024-04-07 17:06|| 2024-04-07 17:06|| Front Page Top

#32 Again with ammo :)

Posted by Procopius2k 2024-04-07 19:32|| 2024-04-07 19:32|| Front Page Top

#33 I handload every round I shoot and every round sits in the tray full of rat poison before it gets loaded. Beats all these arguments about efficiency.

Posted by Canuckistan sniper 2024-04-07 23:53|| 2024-04-07 23:53|| Front Page Top

23:53 Canuckistan sniper
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