US Vice President JD Vance met on Friday in Munich with the leader of Germany’s far-right AfD, his office confirmed, after endorsing the party as a political partner — a stance Berlin dismissed as unwelcome election interference.
An official in Vance’s office did not provide further details of the meeting, but said that Vance met with leaders of all of Germany’s major political parties, according to the pool report.
A spokesperson for AfD leader Alice Weidel confirmed the meeting, saying the two met at Vance’s hotel for about 30 minutes and discussed the Ukraine war, German domestic policy and freedom of speech.
The anti-immigration AfD, currently polling at around 20% ahead of the February 23 general election, has pariah status among other major political parties in a country with a taboo about far-right politics because of its Nazi past.
In a policy dubbed the "firewall," parties have formed a consensus not to work with the AfD, which is under surveillance by the German domestic intelligence service.
In an apparent reference to the catchword, Vance said: "Democracy rests on the sacred principle that the voice of the people matters. There’s no room for firewalls."
"No voter on this continent went to the ballot box to open the floodgates to millions of unvetted immigrants colonists," Vance also said, speaking at the Munich Security Conference on Friday.
In an interview with Deutschlandfunk radio due to be broadcast on Sunday, Chancellor Olaf Scholz criticized Vance’s remarks as highly unusual, adding that Germany had a firewall against extreme right-wing parties for a good reason, citing Germany’s past under National Socialism.
Germany’s defense minister on Friday rebuffed Vance’s criticism of German and European political powers as unacceptable.
"This democracy was just called into question by the US vice president, not just the German democracy but that of Europa ...the land mass occupying the space between the English Channel and the Urals, also known as Moslem Lebensraum... as a whole," Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said at the Munich Security Conference on Friday.
"If I understand him correctly, he compares the condition of Europe with what prevails in some authoritarian regimes...this is not acceptable," he added.
Conservative leader Friedrich Merz, whom polls show is likely to be Germany’s next chancellor, was accused by rivals last month of breaking the firewall by initiating parliamentary motions that relied on AfD support. But he, too, has ruled out forming a government with the far-right party.
Earlier on Friday, a German government spokesperson said Vance should not interfere in Germany’s election when asked about a Wall Street Journal report in which Vance was quoted as saying he would urge German politicians to work with all parties, including the AfD.
"I don’t think it is right for foreigners, including those from friendly foreign countries, to interfere so intensively in an election campaign in the middle of an election period," the German government spokesperson said at a presser.
Billionaire US businessman Elon Musk, the biggest donor to President Donald Trump ...dictatorial for repealing some (but not all) of the diktats of his predecessor, misogynistic because he likes pretty girls, homophobic because he doesn't think gender bending should be mandatory, truly a man for all seasons... ’s election effort and now head of Trump’s task force to cut US government spending, has publicly backed the AfD.
’NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN’
In his address to the conference, Vance launched a withering attack against European policies on immigration, populist parties and free speech, echoing Trump whom he called Washington’s "new sheriff in town."
Vance stressed that Europe must "step up" in managing its own security, a key bone of contention. But he mostly lambasted the EU’s members on culture war issues.
"There is a new sheriff in town under Donald Trump’s leadership," said Vance in a speech that stunned the room.
Vance slammed EU "commissars" for stifling free expression and charged that "across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat."
Trump, speaking in Washington, doubled down on Vance’s attack on traditional US allies.
"I heard his speech. He talked about freedom of speech. And I think it’s true in Europe," the president told news hounds at the White House. "They’re losing their wonderful right of freedom of speech.
"And he talked about immigration, and Europe has a big immigration problem."
Vance’s speech — which focused on key themes of Trump’s election campaign — was a combative broadside at a time of transatlantic discord over defense, trade and Ukraine. It overshadowed discussions on the latter issue in particular, as the prospect of peace talks had been expected to dominate the annual conference after a call between Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin ...President-for-Life of Russia. He gets along well with other presidents for life. He is credited with bringing political stability and re-establishing something like the rule of law, which occasionally results in somebody dropping dead from poisoning by polonium or other interesting substance. Under Putin, a new group of business magnates controlling significant swathes of Russia's economy has emerged, all of whom have close personal ties to him. The old bunch, without close personal ties to Putin, are in jail or in exile or dead from poisoning by polonium or other interesting substances... this week.
The US vice president, however, barely mentioned Russia or Ukraine in his speech to the gathering. He said the threat to Europe that worried him most was not Russia or China but what he called a retreat from fundamental values of protecting free speech — as well as immigration, which he said was "out of control" in Europe.
Trump’s call with Putin alarmed European governments, which have tried to isolate the Russian president since Moscow’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine and fear they could be cut out of peace talks that would have repercussions for their own security.
Vance, who met Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Munich on Friday, told The Wall Street Journal in an interview before the conference that Trump could use several tools — economic and military — for leverage with Putin.
Vance’s front man, William Martin, later took issue with the newspaper’s interpretation that the vice president had been threatening Russia.
PEACE TALKS
Zelensky said at the Munich conference that he would talk to Putin only once Ukraine had agreed on a common plan with Trump and European leaders.
Vance and Zelensky declined to give details of what they discussed in Munich but the Ukrainian president reiterated that his country needs "real security guarantees."
German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock warned against any attempt to impose a peace deal on Ukraine.
"A sham peace — over the heads of Ukrainians and Europeans — would gain nothing," she said. "A sham peace would not bring lasting security, neither for the people in Ukraine nor for us in Europe or the United States."
Russia now holds about 20% of Ukraine nearly three years after launching a full-scale invasion, saying Kyiv’s pursuit of NATO ...the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It's headquartered in Belgium. That sez it all.... membership posed an existential threat. Ukraine and the West call Russia’s action an imperialist land grab.
Vance also repeated Trump’s demand that Europe do more to safeguard its own defense so Washington can focus on other regions, particularly the Indo-Pacific.
"In the future, we think Europe is going to have to take a bigger role in its own security," he said in a meeting with German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier.
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte said Vance was "absolutely right" about the need for Europe "stepping up" and doing more for its own defense. "We have to grow up in that sense and spend much more," Rutte said.
At the conference, several European leaders echoed his comments, saying Europe would step up its defense spending but also needed to discuss with Washington a gradual phasing-out of its support.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 00:00||
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#1 If Europe in general and the UK in specific no longer give a damn about *true* democracy, including rights of free speech, association, and assembly, I no longer care if Putin ends up ruling them. Such an outcome would be preferable to Islamic rule.
Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 00:32||
2025-02-15 00:32||
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#2 All of the West has self-orientalized over the last years.
All Western countries have become more and more similar to Russia, China and the Islamic world to different degrees.
This trend being reversed in the US will hopefully also trigger changes in Europe and the non European Western nations.
Dragging people to jail for quoting a USVP risks drawing the international public's attention to a 'justice' system that would do such a thing.
The German political class reacted in a disappointing way. They either remained silent or whined like the East German leadership did after Reagan's "Tear down this wall." speech.
Freedom of speech is not a luxury, it is Western civilization's superior error detection and correction system.
Without freedom of speech we will be lead to slaughter, deaf and dumb.
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 05:03||
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#3 The Eastern Roman Empire lasted hundreds of years after the fall of Rome and the Western Roman Empire. It would have probably lasted longer had not Justinian not exhausted the resources of the East trying to recover the lands of the West, leaving it vulnerable to the first Islamic invasion. Just saying.
Posted by Procopius2k 2025-02-15 07:24||
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#4 …"If I understood him correctly, he compares the condition of Europe with the condition that prevails in some authoritarian regimes."
By damn! You DO understand him correctly! Wasn't sure you were capable of that level of mentation.
Posted by Mercutio 2025-02-15 08:48||
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#5 EH wrote:
Freedom of speech is not a luxury, it is Western civilization's superior error detection and correction system.
Without freedom of speech we will be lead to slaughter, deaf and dumb.
Well done. That is some strong truth.
Posted by no mo uro 2025-02-15 08:57||
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#6 #3 P2K, Eastern Roman empire lasted for a 900 years after Justinian.
Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 09:48||
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#7 ...not much of an Empire after the Muslim Conquests those last hundred years.
Posted by Procopius2k 2025-02-15 10:05||
2025-02-15 10:05||
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#8 ^Nevertheless
Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 10:36||
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#9 Whoever wrote that speech, fantastic. Well delivered, too.
Something, something, UK law enforcement threatening arrest of anyone who noticed the murderer of the Swifty children is African even had someone arrested in Pakistan IIRC, EU MP bragging about cancelling elections, Germany talking up banning a political party because they will be leading the polls.
This is not the Europe where I live.
I think that is exactly what we need to talk about.
Posted by swksvolFF 2025-02-15 10:48||
2025-02-15 10:48||
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#10 I was there. And I better not comment.
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 10:58||
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#11 Byzantium fell because it rotted from within due to arrogance and corruption. The nobles were too busy arguing over the meaning of words while the populace abandoned it. Despite the bravery of the Venetians it was a done deal.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2025-02-15 11:13||
2025-02-15 11:13||
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#12 Of course you must keep confidences, European Conservative. Clearly there was a great deal of anger in the room during and after the speech. and NATO must be feeling rather whipsawed, going from the demands of President Trump to those of the Biden administration to President Trump again. I will only say, as I did in the previous thread, that I imagine you found the conference yesterday interesting. Here’s hoping the major parties actually act, rather than being content yet again to have said all the right things after the Mr. Noori smashed his car into the crowd.
Posted by trailing wife 2025-02-15 11:25||
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#13 We, America's soldiers, fought and died in every European war. We were in Bosnia years before any other European nation went in. JD is spot on, not one more drop of American blood for the self righteous Euro's the generally despise us until they need our treasure and blood. Fuck them...
Posted by 49 Pan 2025-02-15 11:48||
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#14 Lots of excellent comments.
Posted by Besoeker 2025-02-15 11:50||
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#15 NATO must be feeling rather whipsawed, going from the demands of President Trump to those of the Biden administration to President Trump again.
Symptoms of bipolar disorder. Not good. I'm feeling a bit whipsawed myself. The only solution I can offer is for everybody to start treating Democrats as the pariah party.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 11:52||
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#16 Migration is one thing, collaboration with the AfD something completely different. I just want to say that there were some of the staunchest transatlanticist people in the room, including the highest ranking members of my party.
We don't understand how Vance could visit Dachau, with the usual "Never Again" proclamations, and then go on to recommend us to open up to a party that thinks the Holocaust is a "bird shit" in German history.
And no, the AfD doesn't suffer suppression or a free speech problem. Their leaders are invited to just about any German TV talk show, they can freely express their opinions and you can vote for them just fine.
I expect Merz to be chancellor in March. He worked for major U.S. companies and is not a lightweight like Scholz. We'll see. Our freedom of speech is not in any danger. Our freedom is, because of Putin's aggression.
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:07||
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#17 "A sham peace — over the heads of Ukrainians and Europeans — would gain nothing," she said. "A sham peace would not bring lasting security, neither for the people in Ukraine nor for us in Europe or the United States."
It's a sham of a war. It's naked aggression, its imperialism by the Western powers who don't even have the guts to put their own troops on the line. They thought Putin was so weak that he would knuckle under and allow NATO into Ukraine. They thought he would give up Crimea. But they miscalculated, plain and simple, just like Napoleon and Hitler. Putin knew better than to believe they would stop at Ukraine.
They can try to put a fig leaf on it with the claim of fighting for democracy but that's a lie. The CIA engineered the Maidan coup in 2014 that deposed Ukraine's democratically elected president. WTF were Victoria Nuland and the CIA doing in Kiev? How democratic was that?
Then Zelensky canceled Ukraine's scheduled election last March. So much for democracy. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter. They are compelled to fight a war whether they like it or not. That's not democracy. That's not security. It's a lie.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 12:20||
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#18 How much traction, how many followers, would AfD have gained without millions of Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into Germany?
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 12:25||
2025-02-15 12:25||
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#19 "Zelensky canceled Ukraine's scheduled election last March. So much for democracy."
"Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” (2015) prohibits the holding of elections during martial law and the Electoral Code of Ukraine (2019) ordains suspension of all elections during such period. This is not an arbitrary political decision but a constitutionally viable solution aimed at ensuring stability in times of crisis. The law prevents governance from collapsing into uncertainty while the country is under extreme conditions."
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:50||
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#20 "How much traction, how many followers, would AfD have gained without millions of Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into Germany?"
A problem the new government will have to tackle, but without the AfD.
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:59||
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#21 Ensure stability? That's a fig leaf for dictators. War is the most important matter anybody is ever likely to face. If you can't vote on war, your country is not stable, you are not secure, you are not free, you do not live in a democracy, your country is not worth fighting for.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 13:07||
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#22 In America, we had elections during all of our wars. That's why Lyndon Johnson did not seek another term in office in 1968. The people of this country were so unhappy with his conduct of the Vietnam War that he was afraid to go before the electorate.
Maybe the people think their war is just but they have no faith in their government to wage it. What do they do then? Wait for defeat? That's not what the British did with Neville Chamberlain.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 13:20||
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#23 @18 The AfD would have disintegrated in 2015 without Merkel's flooding.
However other non-establishment parties would have been founded and would have had some success.
Russia wants to take over all of Europe and end the US as a global power.
Putin has been an exploratory aggressor since the 200x years. He even dared and got away with deploying a radiological weapon on the territory of a Western nuclear power.
Anyone who wants to appease Russia will have to give away more than Ukraine.
The US will have to forfeit her right to have the US navy freely navigate international waters.
@16 Our freedom of speech is not in any danger.
Distribution of cartoons critical of the Greens results in criminal prosecution. Even if the result is an acquittal, this is unacceptable harassment and intimidation.
In the olden days freedom of speech enjoyed far greater protection.
"Soldaten sind Mörder! / Soldiers are murderers", "Tötet Helmut Kohl! / Kill Helmut Kohl!" was legally protected speech and didn't cause any societal ostracism either.
FTR I disagreed and disagree with both statements.
@20 A problem the new government will have to tackle, but without the AfD.
Center right parties could, in principle easily and devastatingly attack the AfD.
Point out that leading AfD politicians and affiliates (e.g. Chrupalla, Krah, Max Otte) are supporters of totalitarian Islam and the subjugation of Westerners to Sharia.
Taking a principled stance against totalitarianism should be in the DNA of the CDU/CSU/FDP but after Merkel that doesn't seem to be the case any longer.
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 13:29||
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#24 @22 By that standard Churchill was not the legitimate PM during WWII since the no general elections were held between 1935 and 1945.
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 13:32||
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#25 Personally, I'm glad some Americans beginning to recollect why their ancestors left Europe in the first place.
Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 14:11||
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#26 I was referring to Ukraine law.
And neither the U.S. nor the UK were under partly foreign occupation, with millions of people not being able to vote. Elections in Ukraine with daily bombings? The UK only had elections in July 1945 when the war in Europa had already ended.
Btw German Basic Law §115h has this:
(3) The Bundestag may not be dissolved for the duration of the state of defense.
i.e. no elections.
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 14:30||
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Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 14:42||
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#28 What I hear from the Germans is carrion men groaning for burial.
It's over for them. And we don't care.
Posted by Regular joe 2025-02-15 14:53||
2025-02-15 14:53||
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#29 Re freedom of speech in Germany:
In a poll posing the question "Do you feel that you can express your political opinion freely in Germany today, or is it better to be cautious?” 78% responded in the affirmative in 1990 whereas in 2023/2024 this decreased to 40% and 47% of the respondents. (Link in German)
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 14:58||
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#30 Abraham Lincoln ran against McClellan, his fired general in 1864 during our Civil War. During WWII, I think the only major change was that we let women have their own baseball league, even the slutty ones based on Madonna’s character. I understand we weren’t occupied during WWII, other than Kiska and Attu. Not sure why those two islands would have been considered a bigger red line than getting our troops slaughtered in the Philippines which was a protectorate that might as well have been a colony at the time.
Posted by Super Hose 2025-02-15 15:02||
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No word yet if Vance and Trump will face consequences. </sarc>
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 15:29||
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#32 Grom???
Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 16:33||
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#33 ....Conservative Friedrich Merz...
How conservative is he?
Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 16:41||
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#34 In its 2017 election manifesto, AfD asserted that the presence of Muslims in Germany was a threat to the country: “Islam does not belong in Germany. The AfD sees the spread of Islam and the presence of over 5 million Muslims, whose numbers are constantly growing, as a great danger to our state, our society and our system of values.”[2]
AfD members were exposed as participants in a November 2023 secret meeting of far-right extremists in Potsdam, including Austrian neo-Nazi Martin Sellner, who discussed a mass deportation plan for foreigners and "non-assimilated" Germans, as part of AfD’s strategy should it be elected to govern Germany.
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Why would any sane German oppose those positions?
Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 16:47||
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#35 @33
IMHO like Mitt Romney.
@34
That was then.
Leading AfD politicians & affiliates now are pro Erdogan, Iran, Qatar/MB, and implicitly also pro Hamas and Hezbollah.
The AfD has been Corbynized during the last 3-4 years.
The only remaining positive aspect of their platform is their opposition to economic self destruction in the name of the climate.
Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 17:04||
2025-02-15 17:04||
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#36 Personally, I think we need to conquer them and make them a managed territory. Place the whole of Western Europe under military Governance, including Great Britain. Then ethnically cleanse the whole continent and British Isles.
Posted by Black Bart Unoluque3651 2025-02-15 19:09||
2025-02-15 19:09||
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#37 May have to get in line.
Macron recently went on a pandercast with a young muslim who has a history of calling for an islamic France and to use it as a tool to expand islam.
Posted by swksvolFF 2025-02-15 20:49||
2025-02-15 20:49||
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...the land mass occupying the space between the English Channel and the Urals, also known as Moslem Lebensraum...