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2022-11-09 Europe
Germany's Position in America's New World Order.
[SavageMinds] Germany has become an economic satellite of America’s New Cold War with Russia, China and the rest of Eurasia.

Germany and other NATO countries have been told to impose trade and investment sanctions upon themselves that will outlast today’s proxy war in Ukraine. US President Biden and his State Department spokesmen have explained that Ukraine is just the opening arena in a much broader dynamic that is splitting the world into two opposing sets of economic alliances. This global fracture promises to be a ten- or twenty-year struggle to determine whether the world economy will be a unipolar US-centred dollarised economy, or a multipolar, multi-currency world centred on the Eurasian heartland with mixed public/private economies.

President Biden has characterised this split as being between democracies and autocracies. The terminology is typical Orwellian double-speak. By "democracies" he means the US and allied Western financial oligarchies. Their aim is to shift economic planning out of the hands of elected governments to Wall Street and other financial centres under US control. US diplomats use the International Monetary Fund and World Bank to demand privatisation of the world’s infrastructure and dependency on US technology, oil and food exports.

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By "autocracy," Biden means countries resisting this financialisation and privatisation takeover. In practice, US rhetoric means promoting its own economic growth and living standards, keeping finance and banking as public utilities. What basically is at issue is whether economies will be planned by banking centres to create financial wealth—by privatising basic infrastructure, public utilities and social services such as health care into monopolies—or by raising living standards and prosperity by keeping banking and money creation, public health, education, transportation and communications in public hands.

The country suffering the most "collateral damage" in this global fracture is Germany. As Europe’s most advanced industrial economy, German steel, chemicals, machinery, automotives and other consumer goods are the most highly dependent on imports of Russian gas, oil and metals from aluminium to titanium and palladium. Yet despite two Nord Stream pipelines built to provide Germany with low-priced energy, Germany has been told to cut itself off from Russian gas and de-industrialise. This means the end of its economic preeminence. The key to GDP growth in Germany, as in other countries, is energy consumption per worker.

These anti-Russian sanctions make today’s New Cold War inherently anti-German. US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has said that Germany should replace low-priced Russian pipeline gas with high-priced US LNG gas. To import this gas, Germany will have to spend over $5 billion quickly to build port capacity to handle LNG tankers. The effect will be to make German industry uncompetitive. Bankruptcies will spread, employment will decline, and Germany’s pro-NATO leaders will impose a chronic depression and falling living standards.

Most political theory assumes that nations will act in their own self-interest. Otherwise they are satellite countries, not in control of their own fate. Germany is subordinating its industry and living standards to the dictates of US diplomacy and the self-interest of America’s oil and gas sector. It is doing this voluntarily—not because of military force but out of an ideological belief that the world economy should be run by US Cold War planners.

Sometimes it is easier to understand today’s dynamics by stepping away from one’s own immediate situation to look at historical examples of the kind of political diplomacy that one sees splitting today’s world. The closest parallel that I can find is medieval Europe’s fight by the Roman papacy against German kings—the Holy Roman Emperors—in the 13th century. That conflict split Europe along lines much like those of today. A series of popes excommunicated Frederick II and other German kings and mobilised allies to fight against Germany and its control of southern Italy and Sicily.

Western antagonism against the East was incited by the Crusades (1095-1291), just as today’s Cold War is a crusade against economies threatening US dominance of the world. The medieval war against Germany was over who should control Christian Europe: the papacy, with the popes becoming worldly emperors, or secular rulers of individual kingdoms by claiming the power to morally legitimise and accept them.

Medieval Europe’s analogue to America’s New Cold War against China and Russia was the Great Schism in 1054. Demanding unipolar control over Christendom, Leo IX excommunicated the Orthodox Church centred in Constantinople and the entire Christian population that belonged to it. A single bishopric, Rome, cut itself off from the entire Christian world of the time, including the ancient Patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople and Jerusalem.

This break-away created a political problem for Roman diplomacy: How to hold all the Western European kingdoms under its control and claim the right for financial subsidy from them. That aim required subordinating secular kings to papal religious authority. In 1074, Gregory VII, Hildebrand, announced 27 Papal Dictates outlining the administrative strategy for Rome to lock in its power over Europe.

These papal demands are in striking parallel to today’s US diplomacy. In both cases military and worldly interests require a sublimation in the form of an ideological crusading spirit to cement the sense of solidarity that any system of imperial domination requires. The logic is timeless and universal.

The Papal Dictates were radical in two major ways. First of all, they elevated the bishop of Rome above all other bishoprics, creating the modern papacy. Clause 3 ruled that the pope alone had the power of investiture to appoint bishops or to depose or reinstate them. Reinforcing this, Clause 25 gave the right of appointing (or deposing) bishops to the pope, not to local rulers. And Clause 12 gave the pope the right to depose emperors, following Clause 9, obliging "all princes to kiss the feet of the Pope alone" in order to be deemed legitimate rulers.

Likewise today, US diplomats claim the right to name who should be recognised as a nation’s head of state. In 1953 they overthrew Iran’s elected leader and replaced him with the Shah’s military dictatorship. That principle gives US diplomats the right to sponsor "colour revolutions" for regime-change, such as their sponsorship of Latin American military dictatorships creating client oligarchies to serve US corporate and financial interests. The 2014 coup in Ukraine is just the latest exercise of this US right to appoint and depose leaders.

More recently, US diplomats have appointed Juan Guaidó as Venezuela’s head of state instead of its elected president, and turned over that country’s gold reserves to him. President Biden has insisted that Russia must remove Putin and put a more pro-US leader in his place. This "right" to select heads of state has been a constant in US policy spanning its long history of political meddling in European political affairs since World War II.

The second radical feature of the Papal Dictates was their exclusion of all ideology and policy that diverged from papal authority. Clause 2 stated that only the Pope could be called "Universal." Any disagreement was, by definition, heretical. Clause 17 stated that no chapter or book could be considered canonical without papal authority.

A similar demand as is being made by today’s US-sponsored ideology of financialised and privatised "free markets," meaning deregulation of government power to shape economies in interests other than those of US-centred financial and corporate elites.

The demand for universality in today’s New Cold War is cloaked in the language of "democracy." But the definition of democracy in today’s New Cold War is simply "pro-US," and specifically neoliberal privatisation as the US-sponsored new economic religion. This ethic is deemed to be "science," as in the quasi-Nobel Memorial Prize in the Economic Sciences. That is the modern euphemism for neoliberal Chicago-School junk economics, IMF austerity programs and tax favouritism for the wealthy.

The Papal Dictates spelt out a strategy for locking in unipolar control over secular realms. They asserted papal precedence over worldly kings, above all over Germany’s Holy Roman Emperors. Clause 26 gave popes authority to excommunicate whomever was "not at peace with the Roman Church." That principle implied the concluding Clause 27, enabling the pope to "absolve subjects from their fealty to wicked men." This encouraged the medieval version of "colour revolutions" to bring about regime change.

What united countries in this solidarity was an antagonism to societies not subject to centralised papal control—the Moslem Infidels who held Jerusalem, and also the French Cathars and anyone else deemed to be a heretic. Above all there was hostility toward regions strong enough to resist papal demands for financial tribute.

Today’s counterpart to such ideological power to excommunicate heretics resisting demands for obedience and tribute would be the World Trade Organization, World Bank and IMF dictating economic practices and setting "conditionalities" for all member governments to follow, on pain of US sanctions—the modern version of excommunication of countries not accepting US suzerainty. Clause 19 of the Dictates ruled that the pope could be judged by no one—just as today, the United States refuses to subject its actions to rulings by the World Court. Likewise today, US dictates via NATO and other arms (such as the IMF and World Bank) are expected to be followed by US satellites without question. As Margaret Thatcher said of her neoliberal privatisation that destroyed Britain’s public sector, "There Is No Alternative" (TINA).

My point is to emphasise the analogy with today’s US sanctions against all countries not following its own diplomatic demands. Trade sanctions are a form of excommunication. They reverse the 1648 Treaty of Westphalia’s principle that made each country and its rulers independent from foreign meddling. President Biden characterises US interference as ensuring his new antithesis between "democracy" and "autocracy." By democracy he means a client oligarchy under US control, creating financial wealth by reducing living standards for labor, as opposed to mixed public/private economies aiming at promoting living standards and social solidarity.

As I have mentioned, by excommunicating the Orthodox Church centred in Constantinople and its Christian population, the Great Schism created the fateful religious dividing line that has split "the West" from the East for the past millennium. That split was so important that Vladimir Putin cited it as part of his September 30, 2022 speech describing today’s break away from the US and NATO centred Western economies.

The 12th and 13th centuries saw Norman conquerors of England, France and other countries, along with German kings, protest repeatedly, be excommunicated repeatedly, yet ultimately succumb to papal demands. It took until the 16th century for Martin Luther, Zwingli and Henry VIII finally to create a Protestant alternative to Rome, making Western Christianity multi-polar.

Why did it take so long? The answer is that the Crusades provided an organising ideological gravity. That was the medieval analogy to today’s New Cold War between East and West. The Crusades created a spiritual focus of "moral reform" by mobilising hatred against "the other"—the Moslem East, and increasingly Jews and European Christian dissenters from Roman control. That was the medieval analogy to today’s neoliberal "free market" doctrines of America’s financial oligarchy and its hostility to China, Russia and other nations not following that ideology.

In today’s New Cold War, the West’s neoliberal ideology is mobilising fear and hatred of "the other," demonising nations that follow an independent path as "autocratic regimes." Outright racism is fostered toward entire peoples, as evident in the Russophobia and Cancel Culture currently sweeping the West.

Just as Western Christianity’s multi-polar transition required the 16th century’s Protestant alternative, the Eurasian heartland’s break from the bank-centred NATO West must be consolidated by an alternative ideology regarding how to organise mixed public/private economies and their financial infrastructure.

Medieval churches in the West were drained of their alms and endowments to contribute Peter’s Pence and other subsidy to the papacy for the wars it was fighting against rulers who resisted papal demands. England played the role of major victim that Germany plays today. Enormous English taxes were levied ostensibly to finance the Crusades were diverted to fight Frederick II, Conrad and Manfred in Sicily. That diversion was financed by papal bankers from northern Italy (Lombards and Cahorsins), and became royal debts passed down throughout the economy.

England’s barons waged a civil war against Henry II in the 1260s, ending his complicity in sacrificing the economy to papal demands.

What ended the papacy’s power over other countries was the ending of its war against the East. When the Crusaders lost Acre, the capital of Jerusalem in 1291, the papacy lost its control over Christendom. There was no more "evil" to fight, and the "good" had lost its centre of gravity and coherence. In 1307, France’s Philip IV ("the Fair") seized the Church’s great military banking order’s wealth, that of the Templars in the Paris Temple. Other rulers also nationalised the Templars, and monetary systems were taken out of the hands of the Church. Without a common enemy defined and mobilised by Rome, the papacy lost its unipolar ideological power over Western Europe.

The modern equivalent to the rejection of the Templars and papal finance would be for countries to withdraw from America’s New Cold War. They would reject the dollar standard and the US banking and financial system that is happening as more and more countries see Russia and China not as adversaries but as presenting great opportunities for mutual economic advantage.

The broken promise of mutual gain between Germany and Russia

The dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 promised an end to the Cold War. The Warsaw Pact was disbanded, Germany was reunified, and American diplomats promised an end to NATO, because a Soviet military threat no longer existed. Russian leaders indulged in the hope that, as President Putin expressed it, a new pan-European economy would be created from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Germany in particular was expected to take the lead in investing in Russia and restructuring its industry along more efficient lines. Russia would pay for this technology transfer by supplying gas and oil, along with nickel, aluminium, titanium and palladium.

There was no anticipation that NATO would be expanded to threaten a New Cold War, much less that it would back Ukraine, recognised as the most corrupt kleptocracy in Europe, into being led by extremist parties identifying themselves by German Nazi insignia.

How do we explain why the seemingly logical potential of mutual gain between Western Europe and the former Soviet economies turned into a sponsorship of oligarchic kleptocracies. The Nord Stream pipeline’s destruction capsulises the dynamics in a nutshell. For almost a decade a constant US demand has been for Germany to reject its reliance on Russian energy. These demands were opposed by Gerhardt Schroeder, Angela Merkel and German business leaders. They pointed to the obvious economic logic of mutual trade of German manufactures for Russian raw materials.
The US problem was how to stop Germany from approving the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

Victoria Nuland, President Biden and other US diplomats demonstrated that the way to do that was to incite a hatred of Russia. The New Cold War was framed as a new Crusade. That was how George W. Bush had described America’s attack on Iraq to seize its oil wells. The US-sponsored 2014 coup created a puppet Ukrainian regime that has spent eight years bombing of the Russian-speaking Eastern provinces. NATO thus incited a Russian military response. The incitement was successful, and the desired Russian response was duly labeled an unprovoked atrocity. Its protection of civilians was depicted in the NATO-sponsored media as being so offensive as to deserve the trade and investment sanctions that have been imposed since February. That is what a Crusade means.

The result is that the world is splitting in two camps: the US-centred NATO, and the emerging Eurasian coalition. One byproduct of this dynamic has been to leave Germany unable to pursue the economic policy of mutually advantageous trade and investment relations with Russia (and perhaps also China). German Chancellor Olaf Sholz is going to China this week to demand that it dismantle is public sector and stops subsidising its economy, or else Germany and Europe will impose sanctions on trade with China. There is no way that China could meet this ridiculous demand, any more than the United States or any other industrial economy would stop subsidising their own computer-chip and other key sectors. The German Council on Foreign Relations is a neoliberal "libertarian" arm of NATO demanding German de-industrialisation and dependency on the United States for its trade, excluding China, Russia and their allies. This promises to be the final nail in Germany’s economic coffin.

Another byproduct of America’s New Cold War has been to end any international plan to stem global warming. A keystone of US economic diplomacy is for its oil companies and those of its NATO allies to control the world’s oil and gas supply—that is, to reduce dependence on carbon-based fuels. That is what the NATO war in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Ukraine was about. It is not as abstract as "Democracies vs. Autocracies." It is about the US ability to harm other countries by disrupting their access to energy and other basic needs.

Without the New Cold War’s "good vs. evil" narrative, US sanctions will lose their raison d’etre in this US attack on environmental protection, and on mutual trade between Western Europe and Russia and China. That is the context for today’s fight in Ukraine, which is to be merely the first step in the anticipated 20 year fight by the US to prevent the world from becoming multipolar. This process will lock Germany and Europe into dependence on the US supplies of LNG.

The trick is to try and convince Germany that it is dependent on the United States for its military security. What Germany really needs protection from is the US war against China and Russia that is marginalising and "Ukrainianising" Europe.

There have been no calls by Western governments for a negotiated end to this war, because no war has been declared in Ukraine. The United States does not declare war anywhere, because that would require a Congressional declaration under the US Constitution. So US and NATO armies bomb, organise colour revolutions, meddle in domestic politics (rendering the 1648 Westphalia agreements obsolete), and impose the sanctions that are tearing Germany and its European neighbours apart.

How can negotiations "end" a war that either has no declaration of war, or is a long-term strategy of total unipolar world domination?

The answer is that no ending can come until an alternative to the present US-centred set of international institutions is replaced. That requires the creation of new institutions reflecting an alternative to the neoliberal bank-centred view that economies should be privatised with central planning by financial centres. Rosa Luxemburg characterised the choice as being between socialism and barbarism. I have sketched out the political dynamics of an alternative in my recent book, The Destiny of Civilisation.
Posted by Spike the Hairy6811 2022-11-09 00:00|| || Front Page|| [6 views ]  Top

#1 The only weakness in this...literary wonder is the author assumes in the U.S. government a level of competence and forethought that I have yet to see.
Posted by Nguard 2022-11-09 07:13||   2022-11-09 07:13|| Front Page Top

#2 /\ Headed the other direction in fact.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-11-09 07:26||   2022-11-09 07:26|| Front Page Top

#3 tl;dr

US control bad
Russia control good
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 09:00||   2022-11-09 09:00|| Front Page Top

#4 Russia didn’t / doesn’t / won’t and cannot “control” Germany. That’s a fevered fantasy of neocons and stupid liberal Globalists.

Economist Michael Hudson’s well-argued point re Germany is clearly and simply that what the US is imposing on Germany and Russia is stupid and destructive, for everyone except US banisters and LNG companies. (Along with, of course, the US MIC. Don’t ever forget Lloyd-Raytheon and Lockheed.)

Germany is, and soon will cease to be, the world’s most advanced manufacturing economy. Russia is, and will remain for generations to come, the world’s biggest supplier of all the energy, materials and metals that German manufacturing critically relies upon.

For Germany to turn away from such a country and make itself 100% reliant upon a self-interested and unscrupulous foreign supplier, one who’s charging the Germans 4-5x as much and forcing a foolish “green energy” policy on them as well —- this amounts to national suicide.

Well, it won’t be the first time that Good Germans have followed a monstrous leader over the cliff. It’s what Good liberal Globalist Germans do.

Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 09:27||   2022-11-09 09:27|| Front Page Top

#5 * what the US is imposing on Germany and Russia is stupid and destructive, for everyone except US banksters and LNG companies
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 09:28||   2022-11-09 09:28|| Front Page Top

#6 "Russia didn’t / doesn’t / won’t and cannot “control” Germany."

We just found out how dependent Germany is (or rather was) on Russian energy. And that's exactly how Russia wanted it.

What we should have done after 2014: Reducing our gas imports from Russia by 5% every year. All that trouble we have now could have been avoided.

Russia expected that Germany (and Europe) would only react with insignificant sanctions and no arms to Ukraine.

Well, shit happens. But remember it was Russia who cut the gas supplies.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 09:40||   2022-11-09 09:40|| Front Page Top

#7 Germany: Domestic and Foreign Policy

Wouldn't mind getting your thoughts on the above EC.
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 09:46||   2022-11-09 09:46|| Front Page Top

#8 Well, shit happens

Nice. Behold the liberal Globalist’s snarling contempt for his people and his nation. For them, it’s The Grift Uber Alles.

Scheiss happens, meinen freunden!
What’s German for suck it up, bitchez?
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 09:48||   2022-11-09 09:48|| Front Page Top

#9 I'm really not the guy who watches Youtube speeches. Makes it difficult to comment. Prefer everything in writing.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 09:50||   2022-11-09 09:50|| Front Page Top

#10 Only a fool who doesn’t understand economics or strategy would fail to see that Germany and Russia are natural, obvious partners.

All the transparently phony lib-globalist blessings about “muh democracy” and “autocracy” cannot alter this hard fact if realpolitik.

It’s beyond foolish for Germany to make itself totally reliant on US LNG. The only explanation for this collective suicide is the corruption of the German elites — Exhibit A being the corruptocratic cunt Ursula von der Leyen.

Unbelievable. She’s at it AGAIN—- whoring for Pfizer now:

Pfizer, Ursula von der Leyen and €35 billion corruption
21 October 2022

Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 10:03||   2022-11-09 10:03|| Front Page Top

#11 * the transparently phony lib-globalist bleatings about “muh democracy” and “autocracy”
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 10:04||   2022-11-09 10:04|| Front Page Top

#12 "Only a fool who doesn’t understand economics or strategy would fail to see that Germany and Russia are natural, obvious partners."

Certainly true, but not a Russia invading and destroying its neighbors.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 10:16||   2022-11-09 10:16|| Front Page Top

#13 Buddy, we’ve been through this. Minsk II, and what the Russians proposed in early April and Zelensky was ready to sign, were good agreements.

Your problem is not with Russia. It’s with the Biden Administration’s fanatical warmongers. They quashed the peace deal between UA and RU.

It was that rancid little butterball Nuland and her confrères who staged the 2014 coup that set the country on fire.

It was the rabid neocons esp Lindsey Graham and John McCain (No Peace Be Unto Him) who stoked the flames into an 8-year civil war with berserk Ukrainian neo-Nazis slaughtering thousands in the East.

It was Nuland again plus Winken-Blinken and Brandon who backed up a gasoline tanker and sprayed fuel on the flames from March 2021 through February 21. At their urging, Ukraine suddenly declared, right after Biden’s inauguration, a ludicrous vow to “take back” Crimea. And then escalated the war with a massive increase in shelling of Donetsk in mid-February 2022. These are FACTS.

You can deny these facts all you like, but the regime change that must occur for peace to have a chance is in Washington.

Thanks to last night’s results, we’re a bit more than halfway there. Which explains why Z-man made his hard turn last night and announced his readiness for negotiations:

Ukraine urging globe to ‘force Russia into peace talks,’ hard turn from previous stance
By Evan Simko-Bednarski
November 8, 2022 6:50pm ET
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 10:40||   2022-11-09 10:40|| Front Page Top

#14 ...and the Russians are abandoning Kherson. Another good will gesture, no doubt.

Why the heck should Ukraine negotiate away their territory when they are steadily taking it back, and gutting the Russian armed forces in the process?
Posted by Nero 2022-11-09 10:54||   2022-11-09 10:54|| Front Page Top

#15 TASS: "Russia has never refused to conduct negotiations with Ukraine, and it is still ready to hold them taking into account the emerging realities, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told a news briefing on Wednesday."
Posted by Matt 2022-11-09 11:08||   2022-11-09 11:08|| Front Page Top

#16 I’m, because they’re losing, and the few remaining Ukrainians in Kyiv are now freezing in the dark?

Deny the facts all you like. The Biden Administration’s little puppet is now clamoring for negotiations.

He can put the dots together. The GOP just took back the chamber in which all spending bills must originate. His gravy train is finished.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 11:09||   2022-11-09 11:09|| Front Page Top

#17 The emerging reality is that escalation of the war — Russia pounding the shit out of UA’s infrastructure, and more bloody battles — benefits no one. Especially not the 3 million Kyiv residents who are now facing severe deprivation and possibly death as winter sets in.

It’s only the Biden Administration’s insane neocons (plus a few hardliners on each side) who want the war to continue.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 11:13||   2022-11-09 11:13|| Front Page Top

#18 It’s only the Biden Administration’s insane neocons (plus a few hardliners on each side) who want the war to continue.

You haven't talked to many Ukrainians then.

The Ukrainian flag has been raised over Snihurivka, Mykolaiv Oblast
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 11:15||   2022-11-09 11:15|| Front Page Top

#19 Especially not the 3 million Kyiv residents..."

Russia has shown itself to be quite proficient at committing war crimes. It seems to come naturally to them.
Posted by Matt 2022-11-09 11:23||   2022-11-09 11:23|| Front Page Top

#20 Dude. Since last night, the T-shirt man is calling for peace talks. He’s asking for them. Look it up.

The Big Grift is finished. We’re finally going to learn how many of our billions were stolen and where they went.

Pitbull Jim Jordan will be all over this. Sic ‘em, boy. G-r-r-r
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 11:32||   2022-11-09 11:32|| Front Page Top

#21 Developing: "Putin's defense chief orders retreat in Kherson, the first major Ukrainian city Russian forces captured, in new battlefield humiliation"
Posted by Matt 2022-11-09 11:38||   2022-11-09 11:38|| Front Page Top

#22 Why are you so invested in this?
What business is it of ours? The whole point of America First is to stop the grifters and neocons from dragging us into their pointless Forever Wars.

We just won back the House. America First. For once.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 11:47||   2022-11-09 11:47|| Front Page Top

#23 I'm invested in the survival of the 3 million civilians in Kyiv you think are about to die from cold or hunger caused by Russian bombardment. The question is, why aren't you?
Posted by Matt 2022-11-09 11:54||   2022-11-09 11:54|| Front Page Top

#24 We just won back the House. America First. For once.

You are gonna be a sad and disappointed little boy in January.
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 11:57||   2022-11-09 11:57|| Front Page Top

#25 Because literally thousands of people were slaughtered by the Ukrainians’ neo-Nazis. They have no moral standing.

When we start crusading and butting into other people’s squabbles, morality starts to get really complicated.

We’ve done this again and again sngain, and come to grief every time. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Libya. Syria.

If Iranians kill Iraqis, or Iraqis kill Kurds, or Kurdish PKK terrorists kill Turks, or Turks kill Syrians, or Syrians kill Syrians or Libyans kill Libyans —- it’s none of our business. Ditto for Slav-X and Slav-Y.

We have no dog in their fight. None.

And even if we did, our escalating the killing helps NO ONE. Except our Swampie grifters and neocon nutcases.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 12:07||   2022-11-09 12:07|| Front Page Top

#26 To think "America First" is not wrong at all.
To think that Russia winning in Ukraine doesn't matter to America is.

China is watching closely. Abandon Ukraine and China will draw its conclusions.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 12:08||   2022-11-09 12:08|| Front Page Top

#27 they have no moral standing

"They" being who? The kindergarten class at Kyiv Elementary No. 1?
Posted by Matt 2022-11-09 12:12||   2022-11-09 12:12|| Front Page Top

#28 Isolationism and world power number one don't get together.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 12:16||   2022-11-09 12:16|| Front Page Top

#29 “Russia winning in Ukraine doesn't matter to America”

Correct. It means three things above all, none of which impinges on American freedoms or American security:
- Ukraine will be neutral and not aligned with NATO
- Crimea and Sebastopol remain Russian and not threatened by NATO
- Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine will have autonomy and no longer be attacked, murdered and tortured by far-right Ukrainian neo-Nazis.

None of these outcomes has anything whatsoever to do with our freedom or our national security. They are totally irrelevant to us.

By contrast, prolonging the war will definitely drag America down in the eyes of the non-European world. Our foolish intervention is already pushing China and Russia closer together, and the Saudis closer to Russia, and the Indians closer to Russia.

We’re eroding our influence and our position in the world. For nothing.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 12:55||   2022-11-09 12:55|| Front Page Top

#30 Billy B, don't count your chickens before they're hatched. We are still hopeful but many of the congressional races are still in contention.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-11-09 12:59||   2022-11-09 12:59|| Front Page Top

#31 Isolationism and world power number one don't get together.

You can be powerful without going around the world telling other people who can govern their countries and who can't.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-11-09 13:01||   2022-11-09 13:01|| Front Page Top

#32 ^ This
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-11-09 13:02||   2022-11-09 13:02|| Front Page Top

#33 Judging from the Russian troll farm output telling Americans what they ought to do, the Russians are getting desperate. Running away from Kherson w/o a fight or even looting all the toilets. Can you imagine the humiliation?
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 13:11||   2022-11-09 13:11|| Front Page Top

#34 Isolationism and world power number one don't get go together.

Ah the “isolationist” canard. I’m saying we should be MORE attentive to the regions that really do affect Americans’ freedom and security, which are 1) our southern border and 2) the home front. Both are under siege now, thanks to the idiotic and criminal intervene-everywhere, protect-nothing policies of our GloboHomo zealots. The overseas region that truly matters is the Pacific — and no, not the South China Sea; Taiwan will in due course be Hung Kong’ed and brought under China’s control, and it’s pointless to pretend we can prevent it.

I want my country to be free, safe and prosperous. Thirty years of foolish globalism and interventions all over the globe — my God, the list of all the overseas wars we’ve started or escalated since 1988 us as long as your arm — these foolish adventures have had the OPPOSITE effect.

Excepting our top 1/10th of 1 percent, we are unquestionably poorer today — and less free and less secure as well— than we were at the time of the USSR’s collapse.

Our elites were given a golden prize, and they trashed it. It’s simply astonishing how badly they’ve fucked up, and how much damage they have caused to America.

To hell with those fools. Their reign of misrule has come to an end.

America First.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 13:13||   2022-11-09 13:13|| Front Page Top

#35 * Hong-Kong’ed

getting “Hung-Kong’ed” sounds like Paul Pelosi’s idea of a good time
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 13:16||   2022-11-09 13:16|| Front Page Top

#36 America First.
You have done your duty Russian troll. Go collect 50 rubles from the casa.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 13:18||   2022-11-09 13:18|| Front Page Top

#37 ^ The GloboHomos’ only riposte is to say “Russian TROLL!!!” or “Isolationist!!” every time anyone points out the stupidity of their policies. It’s yet another measure of their bankruptcy.

Eastern Europe is irrelevant to our freedom and security. Not our problem. Let the Euros sort it out amongst themselves.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 13:22||   2022-11-09 13:22|| Front Page Top

#38 Russian Defense Minister Shoigu ordered Surovkin to withdraw troops from Kherson region to the other side of the Dnipro river
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 13:24||   2022-11-09 13:24|| Front Page Top

#39 If you let others do it by brute force, you'll cease to be a world power pretty soon.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 13:26||   2022-11-09 13:26|| Front Page Top

#40 Just quit pretending to be a "concerned conservative American". The troll script is worn out. Why not tell us the economic, political and social situation in Russia so that we can learn something.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 13:31||   2022-11-09 13:31|| Front Page Top

#41 America went through isolationism in the 1930s. Imagine America abandoning the UK, Germany and Japan attacking the Soviet Union together.

Abandon Taiwan and China will grab it. But don't believe for a minute that it will stop here. China will want its side of the Pacific Ocean, and who knows it might want it all.

China is heavily investing in Africa, South Asia and South America. It will show up in Mexico, too.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 13:35||   2022-11-09 13:35|| Front Page Top

#42 Why are Communists so damn wordy and make their spiels unreadable? It's like they are trying their best to emulate Russian authors.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 13:41||   2022-11-09 13:41|| Front Page Top

#43 ^ bullshit. The US doesn’t need to intervene in regions that have no impact on US security.

It’s stupid to treat every little war on God’s earth as a replay of Munich 1938
Posted by Palermo  2022-11-09 13:44||   2022-11-09 13:44|| Front Page Top

#44 Ihe US should not intervened in Russia circa 1941-5. Now, there was a conflict where America had no dog in the fight.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 13:51||   2022-11-09 13:51|| Front Page Top

#45 #29 We’re eroding our influence and our position in the world. For nothing.

Correct statement, where we = Russia.
Posted by Nero 2022-11-09 14:01||   2022-11-09 14:01|| Front Page Top

#46 Brilliant. One guy’s world view was frozen in 1938, the other’s in 1949.

A clue for the clueless: Russia hasn’t been communist since 1991. It’s not a global rival anymore. Not even close
Posted by Palermo  2022-11-09 14:26||   2022-11-09 14:26|| Front Page Top

#47 Why are Communists

What kind of moron thinks that enemies of left-liberal internationalism are “communists”?
Posted by Palermo  2022-11-09 14:28||   2022-11-09 14:28|| Front Page Top

#48 Russia is a classic Fascist state with yearnings to recreate their "great" Communist past. That is what this war is about, Putin's great desire to reassemble the Soviet empire. Maybe enough Russians will wake up, otherwise winter is coming for them.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 14:36||   2022-11-09 14:36|| Front Page Top

#49 #39 If you let others do it by brute force, you'll cease to be a world power pretty soon.

We are in fact rapidly losing power. We cannot even fight and win one war— let alone two major wars against Russia and China. The Heritage Foundation evaluated each branch of our military for readiness and competence, and gave the Army, Navy and Air Force each a failing grade. Failing.

You keep pretending that what’s already happened — the decline of our military and loss of our influence — will happen if we don’t keep shoveling trillions into shitholes around the globe. You’re seriously deluded.

Oh and those “brutes” keep winning, everywhere. The brutes kicked us out of Afghanistan — after a trillion wasted and 20 years of blood spilled. The brutes prevailed in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somalia. Every one of those was a pointless waste of American blood and treasure.
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 14:36||   2022-11-09 14:36|| Front Page Top

#50 Ever hear of "International Socialism"?
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 14:37||   2022-11-09 14:37|| Front Page Top

#51 You sure are Russki. Just a show of your former self militarily, economically, politically, socially from the beginning of this year. Begging North Korea and Iran for weapons, uniforms. What next? Begging for snow?
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 14:41||   2022-11-09 14:41|| Front Page Top

#52 Just a shadow of your former self
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 14:42||   2022-11-09 14:42|| Front Page Top

#53 Snurt,

Are you retarded?

The America First movement is AGAINST internationalism. Against globalism, be it lefty, greenie, commie, neocon or otherwise.

America First. Got that?
Posted by Palermo 2022-11-09 14:42||   2022-11-09 14:42|| Front Page Top

#54 Only a moron would call the America First movement “communist”

Is that you, Fetterman? Brandon?
Posted by Palermo  2022-11-09 14:48||   2022-11-09 14:48|| Front Page Top

#55 Preventing Russia from annexing Ukraine is America's interest. Eastern NATO members are next on the Bear's menu and better to maul it now and send it running back to the cave before it can digest Europe's largest country and recreate the Soviet empire in new Fascist colors.
Posted by Shamp Snurt3261 2022-11-09 14:51||   2022-11-09 14:51|| Front Page Top

#56 Lots of "Let's you and him fight" types amongst the Ukraine boosters.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-11-09 14:59||   2022-11-09 14:59|| Front Page Top

#57 In Illinois the dead vote.
In Russia they get drafted.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 15:06||   2022-11-09 15:06|| Front Page Top

#58 Lots of "Let's you and him fight" types amongst the Ukraine boosters.

“We Will fight to the last Ukrainian”
- Miss Lindsey Graham
Posted by Butch Phong3987 2022-11-09 15:21||   2022-11-09 15:21|| Front Page Top

#59 Ridiculous. The Ukrainians fight for their freedom and sheer existence.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 15:27||   2022-11-09 15:27|| Front Page Top

#60 Buddy, that’s the same line we heard about the Afghans. And the Kurds, Syrians South Vietnamese blah blah. Another year, another corrupt shithole country we’re told we need to defend.

I don’t wish any of them ill. It’s just not America’s problem.

If the Euros want to intervene, hey, be my guest. Just leave America out of it.
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 15:47||   2022-11-09 15:47|| Front Page Top

#61 I think we'll leave Russia out of this.
Posted by European Conservative 2022-11-09 15:48||   2022-11-09 15:48|| Front Page Top

#62 Who is “we”?

Why are you demanding we get involved in a shithole like Ukraine?

Seriously, who the fuck are all these people demanding that America get involved in a region that nothing whatsoever to do with our freedom or security? On behalf of the most curtly country this side of Nigeria.

Why is that America’s problem? European shitholes like Ukraine are Europe’s problem.

You deal with your shitholes, we’ll deal with ours — Philly, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, DC …
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 15:54||   2022-11-09 15:54|| Front Page Top

#63 The Russian Propaganda (For Dummies)
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 15:55||   2022-11-09 15:55|| Front Page Top

#64 * On behalf of the most corrupt country this side of Nigeria
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 15:56||   2022-11-09 15:56|| Front Page Top

#65 “The” Propaganda??

What English speaker would use the definite article with propaganda?

Go away, troll
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 15:58||   2022-11-09 15:58|| Front Page Top

#66 FFS, we have so many humongous problems to solve now at home. We’ve just seen another clown show election in which — YJCMTSU — a brain-damaged freak, a lifelong bum and now mental patient who can’t even utter a coherent sentence was supposedly elected to serve in the United States Senate.

As if that’s a normal result of a free and fair election in a normal country. Right.

Either because the election was stolen — again — or because a majority of Americans are truly warped by hatred of the GOP, America is truly fucked if we intervene even one more time in another foreign disaster.

Our house is on fire. Put out the fire at home.

America First.
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 16:05||   2022-11-09 16:05|| Front Page Top

#67 Go away, troll

You first, Putie-puffer. You have a word for word posting from the Russian script.
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 16:05||   2022-11-09 16:05|| Front Page Top

#68 
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 16:07||   2022-11-09 16:07|| Front Page Top

#69 Look, the one Senate candidate who clearly and strongly articulated the America First message was that new GOP candidate who won in a landslide: JD Vance in Ohio.

Had the GOP put forth a slate of intelligent and forceful, true America-First senate candidates like JD Vance, we would have won easily in each of the close races.
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 16:12||   2022-11-09 16:12|| Front Page Top

#70 Here come da stoopid.

Yep, you keep coming back stoopid, posting the Russian script like a good little Deadnick.
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 16:24||   2022-11-09 16:24|| Front Page Top

#71 Hey we get it: you miss the Cold War and want to show off what’s left of your military knowledge but for the rest of us Americans, this war is another pointless intervention in a shithole where we have nothing at stake.

Your venom should be directed at the assholes who have wasted literally TRILLIONS on these foolish adventures while running our country into the ground.

They’re even depleting the stocks we need for own defense. We are weaker than we’ve been at any time since 1979. WTF?
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 16:37||   2022-11-09 16:37|| Front Page Top

#72 Ref #69: Had the GOP put forth a slate of intelligent and forceful, true America-First senate candidates like JD Vance, we would have won easily in each of the close races.

A worthy epitaph.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-11-09 17:22||   2022-11-09 17:22|| Front Page Top

#73 The GOP must get away from celebrity and sportsball player candidates.

Reagan was the exception that proves the rule. He was an all-around man who happened to be a underwhelming actor, but was also a union head, governor and still one of our best and most long-term influential on the world stage Presidents.

Larry Elder, Herschel Walker, Kari Lake and Tudor Dixon are not Ronald Reagan.

Not even close on their best days.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-11-09 19:21||   2022-11-09 19:21|| Front Page Top

#74 Did someone say epitaph?
Unworthy epitaph:
Dead Democrat Wins by Landslide in Pennsylvania Election
Frank Bergman
November 9, 2022
Posted by Billy B  2022-11-09 19:28||   2022-11-09 19:28|| Front Page Top

#75 They’re even depleting the stocks we need for own defense. We are weaker than we’ve been at any time since 1979.

You mentioned we had two oceans protecting us and that we don't need to keep such spending up... now you are saying we need it for our defense. Which is it? You flip flop worse than a 3 dollar whore during fleet week.

And no I don't long for another cold war. Grew up during one already thank you very much. Which is why I am happy to give Ukraine weapons as long as they are willing to fight and die for their country. Russia won't stop with Ukraine. I don't want a war, but Russia doesn't give a shit what I want. So they can die in Ukraine and lose their breeding population and be sent to the dustbin of history.
Posted by DarthVader 2022-11-09 20:22||   2022-11-09 20:22|| Front Page Top

#76 #71 They’re even depleting the stocks we need for own defense. We are weaker than we’ve been at any time since 1979.

Once again, true, if we = Russia. Which is now using 1960s era tanks, rusty AK-47s, filling its lines with untrained and unsupplied mobik cannon fodder, and is reduced to buying arms from Iran and North Korea. The Russian army is dying in the mud of Ukraine.
Posted by Nero 2022-11-09 23:05||   2022-11-09 23:05|| Front Page Top

#77 Russia won't stop with Ukraine.

Oh please. What nonsense. Just STOP. Be intelligent for once.
Posted by Billy B 2022-11-09 23:51||   2022-11-09 23:51|| Front Page Top

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