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2004-03-15 Europe
Spanish PM-elect vows to pull troops out of Iraq, lashes Bush
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Posted by mojo 2004-03-15 12:28:37 PM|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Wouldn't it be a kick in the ass if the Madris bombings are, in the end, proven to be ETA?

And how brave of Castro Chavez Zapatero to pull troops on the same time table as the US handover of Iraqi power. If he really had any balls he would do it as soon as he takes the oath of office.

So much conviction, so few convicted.
Posted by Hyper 2004-3-15 12:33:56 PM||   2004-3-15 12:33:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 "self-criticism?" Where's the silver lining here, Mike?
Posted by Mr. Davis  2004-3-15 12:34:59 PM||   2004-3-15 12:34:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Doesn’t Spain have a history of military coup de tat? I think the time is ripe for it!
Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)  2004-3-15 12:43:06 PM||   2004-3-15 12:43:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Jesus... this sonofabitch isn't wasting any time, is he?

Oh, well. Whatever Zapatero does or does not do from this point on is not the problem. The problem is the message Al Qaeda and other Islamofascists will take from yesterday's pathetic performance in Spain: bombing just before an election is a good tool for getting democracies to run away with their tails between their legs. So now they'll do more of it.

A LOT more.
Posted by Dave D.  2004-3-15 1:32:45 PM||   2004-3-15 1:32:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 here's a song about this

FROM MONTY PYTHON'S HOLY GRAIL SONGS OF ROBIN'S MINSTRELS.

as Sir Robin is entering the forest on his individual quest

BRAVELY BOLD SIR ROBIN WENT FORTH FROM CAMELOT.
HE WAS NOT AFRAID TO DIE.
OH BRAVE SIR ROBIN!

HE WAS NOT AT ALL AFRAID TO BE KILLED IN NASTY WAYS.
BRAVE, BRAVE, BRAVE, BRAVE, SIR ROBIN.

HE WAS NOT IN THE LEAST BIT SCARED TO BE MASHED INTO A PULP,
OR TO HAVE HIS EYES GOUGED OUT
AND HIS ELBOWS BROKEN;
TO HAVE HIS KNEE CAPS SPLIT
AND HIS BODY BURNED AWAY
AND HIS LIMBS ALL HACKED AND MANGLED. BRAVE SIR ROBIN!

HIS HEAD SMASHED IN
AND HIS HEART CUT OUT
AND HIS LIVER REMOVED
AND HIS BOWELS UNPLUGGED
AND HIS NOSTRILS RAPED
AND HIS BOTTOM BURNED UP...

as Sir Robin retreats from confrontation with 3 headed warrior

BRAVE SIR ROBIN RAN AWAY.
BRAVELY RAN AWAY, AWAY!

WHEN DANGER REARED ITS UGLY HEAD,
HE BRAVELY TURNED HIS TAIL AND FLED.
BRAVE SIR ROBIN TURNED ABOUT,
SO GALLANTLY HE CHICKENED OUT.
BRAVELY TAKING TO HIS FEET,
HE BEAT A VERY BRAVE RETREAT,
BRAVELY SLUNK AWAY, SIR ROBIN.

as Sir Robin joins the Camelot party and the Knights who say,"Nee."

HE IS PACKING IT IN AND PACKING IT UP
AND SNEAKING AWAY AND BUGGERING OFF
AND CHICKENING OUT AND FIGGING A PULP,
YES, HE IS BRAVELY THROWING IN THE SPONGE.

after Robin speaks to the Knights

HE IS SNEAKING AWAY AND BUGGERING OFF.
Posted by mhw 2004-3-15 1:44:09 PM||   2004-3-15 1:44:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 As I said on "Allah's" site, this reminds me of that MXC episode where, during "Boulder Dash", some guy charged up the hill flailing his arms, saying "It will not touch me, will not touch me, will not touch me..." then got f'ng creamed.

Can't help thinking the Spanish are gonna wake up a week from now, wondering what the hell they've just done. This Zapa guy sounds like a cross between Chirac and Schroeder, "and that's not gonna be good for anybody."
Posted by geezer  2004-3-15 1:57:10 PM||   2004-3-15 1:57:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Ditto what Dave D. said. It's really bad that the Spaniards will pull their troops. Such an immediate statement of intent has made certain that Britain, Spain, Italy, and Poland will be struck shortly. It has clearly been demonstrated that actions such as the U.S. withdrawl from Beirut and the Israeli withdrawl from South Lebanon, though from our point seemingly a tactical retreat, are seen by the Terrorists as a strategic victory.

This also reiterates a part of the Powell doctrine which requires a mandate of public opinion before going to war. Leaders who fight the majority of public opinion are setting themselves up for getting the boot when something goes wrong, as perceived by the populace. I wonder if the Spanish government wouldn't have fallen so hard if the PM and others had not tried so hard to direct the blame onto ETA. The mishandling of that might just have been the final straw that broke the back of the public's trust.
Posted by Anonymous 2004-3-15 2:52:37 PM||   2004-3-15 2:52:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Again, he's aiming his "consultations with other occupying states" at the Latin American countries (e.g., Honduras) that have contributed troops. Small in number, their withdrawal alongside the Spanish will be seen as a second victory by al-Q.
Posted by Steve White  2004-3-15 3:16:53 PM||   2004-3-15 3:16:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 "This also reiterates a part of the Powell doctrine which requires a mandate of public opinion before going to war. Leaders who fight the majority of public opinion are setting themselves up for getting the boot when something goes wrong, as perceived by the populace."

Good point. And it has implications, too: ugly ones, both for us and for the Islamic world.

If I were George Bush right now, I'd be taking inventory of my many miscalculations over the last two and a half years. Here are ten of them:

** The notion that our so-called "allies", or even the American people themselves, have even the attention span--much less the intestinal fortitude--for a long, hard battle against totalitarian Islam. Apparently they do not.

** The notion that the liberal European democracies can sustain continued attacks from Islamist terrorists and still make intelligent collective decisions about their future security. As we saw in Spain on Sunday, some will just panic and run for the hills at the first sign of danger. Given the Spanish reaction, the bombers will no doubt be encouraged to try elsewhere, such as Italy, Greece or the U.K. and they may well succeed there, too.

** The notion that the American people are smart enough to figure out for themselves, without having to have it spelled out for them, very slowly and in very simple words, the many positive geopolitical ramifications of taking out Saddam Hussein's regime and parking an eighth of a million American troops in Iraq armed to the teeth, ready to start kicking the asses of a whole host of chronic troublemakers in the region. Evidently, a sizeable minority of Americans is capable of little more than bleating "But where are those WMDs you told us about? You lied to us!"

** The idea that the Democratic Party would, even briefly, be willing to put the nation's survival ahead of its own short term political ambitions for the sake of national unity. Clearly it is not.

** The idea that while the Democrats would surely continue running their other con-games (taxes, "free" health care for everyone, affirmative action, "diversity", etc.) on the American people during political campaigns in wartime, they would NEVER play dishonest games with national security. Clearly they are more than willing to do that.

** The notion that if we undertake military action in concert with other countries, that action will be seen as "multilateral" and, to the extent that that matters, legitimate. It's now obvious that we will be accused of "unilateralism" (or of operating within a "fraudulent coalition") no matter how many others are fighting alongside us.

** The idea (God, I hope Bush didn't actually believe this...) that Islam is inherently a "Religion of Peace", and all that is needed to help it fulfill its peaceful promise is to nudge it gently in the right direction. Islam, it is now clear, is little more than an aggressive, primitive death cult bent on destroying Western civilization.

** The notion that representative, constitutional democracy has any future in the Arab world. While it could be argued that the jury is still out on that, it is clear at least that installing democratic regimes in place of Arab tyrants is NOT going to be any kind of short-term cure-all.

** The idea that playing kissy-face with American Muslim leaders is going to buy their loyalty. They have been, are, and always will be, enemy collaborators.

** The idea that reassuring foreign Islamic leaders and clerics that we are in no way in a "war against Islam" will have any soothing effect whatsoever. It will not; for in fact they are at war with us, and have been for many, many years.

And what's the "lesson learned" from all this? Simple: the next time the Islamofascists attack America, just push the goddamn button and incinerate them all- or surrender without a fight.

Pick one, or the other. There's no in between.

(Sorry for the long rant...)

Posted by Dave D.  2004-3-15 5:20:24 PM||   2004-3-15 5:20:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 
Bush and Blair, both of whom are facing elections in coming months, need to engage in "self-criticism," Zapatero said.
Why should they bother? There are legions willing to supply the criticism for them.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut  2004-3-15 6:13:46 PM||   2004-3-15 6:13:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 The notion that the liberal European democracies can sustain continued attacks from Islamist terrorists

Mainland Europe (including Greecians) hasn't been able to stave off Scovy Ducks since roughly 1814. I blame it on piss poor breeding and the Irish. Luckily the Irish have largely drank themselve unto death and saved us many bullets. Still the Irish threat continues especially in MA where the FAT one lives. And don't get me started on Irish Coousine.,. Cyusine... Food... It's the Devil's own menu. St. Paddy's Day is near, Be Armed! Be Alert! And if you can't be Alert! Wait for the FACTS!
Posted by Shipman 2004-3-15 6:29:13 PM||   2004-3-15 6:29:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Pulls out? Lashes Bush? Jeebus, do the Spaniards know what a sadistic little S&M freak they've voted for?
Posted by BH  2004-3-15 6:46:43 PM||   2004-3-15 6:46:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Shipman: I'd respond to what you wrote, but alas, I was eating when I read it. :)
Posted by Dave D.  2004-3-15 6:49:19 PM||   2004-3-15 6:49:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Why be so hard on Spain? Here in the good old USA about 50% are willing to surrender to terrorists and globalism as well. Our collective balls are no bigger and we may soon be in their shoes.
Posted by Anonymous 2004-3-15 8:31:53 PM||   2004-3-15 8:31:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 From Gilbert& Sullivan's Gondiliers:
"My Child, The Duke of Plaza Toro does not follow fashions-he leads them. He always leads everybody. When he wasin the army he led his regiment. He occasionally led them into action. He invariably led them out of it."
In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind-
He found it less exciting.
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore,O-
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
Omitting chourus
When to evade Destruction's hand,
To hide they all proceeded,
No soldier in that gallant band
Hid half as well as he did.
He lay concealed throughout the war,
And so presevred his gore,O!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well-connected
Warrior,
The duke of Plaza-Toro!
Posted by bruce 2004-3-15 8:56:02 PM||   2004-3-15 8:56:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 go easy ship, if it wasn't for the whiskey, me and my laddies would rule the world right now! Now pass back that bushmills ya wee lad......
Posted by Jarhead 2004-3-15 11:49:33 PM||   2004-3-15 11:49:33 PM|| Front Page Top

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