Article

2025-02-15 Europe

J.D. Vance Blasts Europe's Elites to Their Sulking Faces – Slams Mass Migration, Censorship, and Champions America's Founding Values.

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Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ] Top

#1 If Europe in general and the UK in specific no longer give a damn about *true* democracy, including rights of free speech, association, and assembly, I no longer care if Putin ends up ruling them. Such an outcome would be preferable to Islamic rule.

Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 00:32|| 2025-02-15 00:32|| Front Page Top

#2 All of the West has self-orientalized over the last years.

All Western countries have become more and more similar to Russia, China and the Islamic world to different degrees.

This trend being reversed in the US will hopefully also trigger changes in Europe and the non European Western nations.

Dragging people to jail for quoting a USVP risks drawing the international public's attention to a 'justice' system that would do such a thing.

The German political class reacted in a disappointing way. They either remained silent or whined like the East German leadership did after Reagan's "Tear down this wall." speech.

Freedom of speech is not a luxury, it is Western civilization's superior error detection and correction system.

Without freedom of speech we will be lead to slaughter, deaf and dumb.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 05:03|| 2025-02-15 05:03|| Front Page Top

#3 The Eastern Roman Empire lasted hundreds of years after the fall of Rome and the Western Roman Empire. It would have probably lasted longer had not Justinian not exhausted the resources of the East trying to recover the lands of the West, leaving it vulnerable to the first Islamic invasion. Just saying.

Posted by Procopius2k 2025-02-15 07:24|| 2025-02-15 07:24|| Front Page Top

#4 …"If I understood him correctly, he compares the condition of Europe with the condition that prevails in some authoritarian regimes."

By damn! You DO understand him correctly! Wasn't sure you were capable of that level of mentation.

Posted by Mercutio 2025-02-15 08:48|| 2025-02-15 08:48|| Front Page Top

#5 EH wrote:

Freedom of speech is not a luxury, it is Western civilization's superior error detection and correction system.

Without freedom of speech we will be lead to slaughter, deaf and dumb.

Well done. That is some strong truth.

Posted by no mo uro 2025-02-15 08:57|| 2025-02-15 08:57|| Front Page Top

#6 #3 P2K, Eastern Roman empire lasted for a 900 years after Justinian.

Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 09:48|| 2025-02-15 09:48|| Front Page Top

#7 ...not much of an Empire after the Muslim Conquests those last hundred years.

Posted by Procopius2k 2025-02-15 10:05|| 2025-02-15 10:05|| Front Page Top

#8 ^Nevertheless

Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 10:36|| 2025-02-15 10:36|| Front Page Top

#9 Whoever wrote that speech, fantastic. Well delivered, too.

Something, something, UK law enforcement threatening arrest of anyone who noticed the murderer of the Swifty children is African even had someone arrested in Pakistan IIRC, EU MP bragging about cancelling elections, Germany talking up banning a political party because they will be leading the polls.

This is not the Europe where I live.

I think that is exactly what we need to talk about.

Posted by swksvolFF 2025-02-15 10:48|| 2025-02-15 10:48|| Front Page Top

#10 I was there. And I better not comment.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 10:58|| 2025-02-15 10:58|| Front Page Top

#11 Byzantium fell because it rotted from within due to arrogance and corruption. The nobles were too busy arguing over the meaning of words while the populace abandoned it. Despite the bravery of the Venetians it was a done deal.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2025-02-15 11:13|| 2025-02-15 11:13|| Front Page Top

#12 Of course you must keep confidences, European Conservative. Clearly there was a great deal of anger in the room during and after the speech. and NATO must be feeling rather whipsawed, going from the demands of President Trump to those of the Biden administration to President Trump again. I will only say, as I did in the previous thread, that I imagine you found the conference yesterday interesting. Here’s hoping the major parties actually act, rather than being content yet again to have said all the right things after the Mr. Noori smashed his car into the crowd.

Posted by trailing wife 2025-02-15 11:25|| 2025-02-15 11:25|| Front Page Top

#13 We, America's soldiers, fought and died in every European war. We were in Bosnia years before any other European nation went in. JD is spot on, not one more drop of American blood for the self righteous Euro's the generally despise us until they need our treasure and blood. Fuck them...

Posted by 49 Pan 2025-02-15 11:48|| 2025-02-15 11:48|| Front Page Top

#14 Lots of excellent comments.

Posted by Besoeker 2025-02-15 11:50|| 2025-02-15 11:50|| Front Page Top

#15 NATO must be feeling rather whipsawed, going from the demands of President Trump to those of the Biden administration to President Trump again.

Symptoms of bipolar disorder. Not good. I'm feeling a bit whipsawed myself. The only solution I can offer is for everybody to start treating Democrats as the pariah party.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 11:52|| 2025-02-15 11:52|| Front Page Top

#16 Migration is one thing, collaboration with the AfD something completely different. I just want to say that there were some of the staunchest transatlanticist people in the room, including the highest ranking members of my party.

We don't understand how Vance could visit Dachau, with the usual "Never Again" proclamations, and then go on to recommend us to open up to a party that thinks the Holocaust is a "bird shit" in German history.

And no, the AfD doesn't suffer suppression or a free speech problem. Their leaders are invited to just about any German TV talk show, they can freely express their opinions and you can vote for them just fine.

I expect Merz to be chancellor in March. He worked for major U.S. companies and is not a lightweight like Scholz. We'll see. Our freedom of speech is not in any danger. Our freedom is, because of Putin's aggression.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:07|| 2025-02-15 12:07|| Front Page Top

#17 "A sham peace — over the heads of Ukrainians and Europeans — would gain nothing," she said. "A sham peace would not bring lasting security, neither for the people in Ukraine nor for us in Europe or the United States."

It's a sham of a war. It's naked aggression, its imperialism by the Western powers who don't even have the guts to put their own troops on the line. They thought Putin was so weak that he would knuckle under and allow NATO into Ukraine. They thought he would give up Crimea. But they miscalculated, plain and simple, just like Napoleon and Hitler. Putin knew better than to believe they would stop at Ukraine.

They can try to put a fig leaf on it with the claim of fighting for democracy but that's a lie. The CIA engineered the Maidan coup in 2014 that deposed Ukraine's democratically elected president. WTF were Victoria Nuland and the CIA doing in Kiev? How democratic was that?

Then Zelensky canceled Ukraine's scheduled election last March. So much for democracy. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter. They are compelled to fight a war whether they like it or not. That's not democracy. That's not security. It's a lie.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 12:20|| 2025-02-15 12:20|| Front Page Top

#18 How much traction, how many followers, would AfD have gained without millions of Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into Germany?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 12:25|| 2025-02-15 12:25|| Front Page Top

#19 "Zelensky canceled Ukraine's scheduled election last March. So much for democracy."

He's just following the law:

"Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” (2015) prohibits the holding of elections during martial law and the Electoral Code of Ukraine (2019) ordains suspension of all elections during such period. This is not an arbitrary political decision but a constitutionally viable solution aimed at ensuring stability in times of crisis. The law prevents governance from collapsing into uncertainty while the country is under extreme conditions."

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:50|| 2025-02-15 12:50|| Front Page Top

#20 "How much traction, how many followers, would AfD have gained without millions of Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into Germany?"

A problem the new government will have to tackle, but without the AfD.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 12:59|| 2025-02-15 12:59|| Front Page Top

#21 Ensure stability? That's a fig leaf for dictators. War is the most important matter anybody is ever likely to face. If you can't vote on war, your country is not stable, you are not secure, you are not free, you do not live in a democracy, your country is not worth fighting for.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 13:07|| 2025-02-15 13:07|| Front Page Top

#22 In America, we had elections during all of our wars. That's why Lyndon Johnson did not seek another term in office in 1968. The people of this country were so unhappy with his conduct of the Vietnam War that he was afraid to go before the electorate.

Maybe the people think their war is just but they have no faith in their government to wage it. What do they do then? Wait for defeat? That's not what the British did with Neville Chamberlain.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2025-02-15 13:20|| 2025-02-15 13:20|| Front Page Top

#23 @18 The AfD would have disintegrated in 2015 without Merkel's flooding.

However other non-establishment parties would have been founded and would have had some success.

@17 Russia's demands go far, far beyond Ukraine.

Russia wants to take over all of Europe and end the US as a global power.

Putin has been an exploratory aggressor since the 200x years. He even dared and got away with deploying a radiological weapon on the territory of a Western nuclear power.

Anyone who wants to appease Russia will have to give away more than Ukraine.

The US will have to forfeit her right to have the US navy freely navigate international waters.

@16 Our freedom of speech is not in any danger.

Distribution of cartoons critical of the Greens results in criminal prosecution. Even if the result is an acquittal, this is unacceptable harassment and intimidation.

In the olden days freedom of speech enjoyed far greater protection.

"Soldaten sind Mörder! / Soldiers are murderers", "Tötet Helmut Kohl! / Kill Helmut Kohl!" was legally protected speech and didn't cause any societal ostracism either.

FTR I disagreed and disagree with both statements.

@20 A problem the new government will have to tackle, but without the AfD.

Center right parties could, in principle easily and devastatingly attack the AfD.

Point out that leading AfD politicians and affiliates (e.g. Chrupalla, Krah, Max Otte) are supporters of totalitarian Islam and the subjugation of Westerners to Sharia.

Taking a principled stance against totalitarianism should be in the DNA of the CDU/CSU/FDP but after Merkel that doesn't seem to be the case any longer.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 13:29|| 2025-02-15 13:29|| Front Page Top

#24 @22 By that standard Churchill was not the legitimate PM during WWII since the no general elections were held between 1935 and 1945.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 13:32|| 2025-02-15 13:32|| Front Page Top

#25 Personally, I'm glad some Americans beginning to recollect why their ancestors left Europe in the first place.

Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 14:11|| 2025-02-15 14:11|| Front Page Top

#26 I was referring to Ukraine law.

And neither the U.S. nor the UK were under partly foreign occupation, with millions of people not being able to vote. Elections in Ukraine with daily bombings? The UK only had elections in July 1945 when the war in Europa had already ended.

Btw German Basic Law §115h has this:

(3) The Bundestag may not be dissolved for the duration of the state of defense.

i.e. no elections.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 14:30|| 2025-02-15 14:30|| Front Page Top

#27 The Bavaria Party (German: Bayernpartei, BP) is an autonomist,[3] regionalist[4] and conservative[2] political party in the state of Bavaria, Germany. The party was founded in 1946, describes itself as patriotic Bavarian and advocates Bavarian independence within the European Union. Together with the Christian Social Union (CSU), it can be seen as an heir to the Bavarian People's Party (BVP) which existed prior to the Nazi takeover. The party is a member of the European Free Alliance.[5]

Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-02-15 14:42|| 2025-02-15 14:42|| Front Page Top

#28 What I hear from the Germans is carrion men groaning for burial.

It's over for them. And we don't care.

Posted by Regular joe 2025-02-15 14:53|| 2025-02-15 14:53|| Front Page Top

#29 Re freedom of speech in Germany:

In a poll posing the question "Do you feel that you can express your political opinion freely in Germany today, or is it better to be cautious?” 78% responded in the affirmative in 1990 whereas in 2023/2024 this decreased to 40% and 47% of the respondents. (Link in German)

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 14:58|| 2025-02-15 14:58|| Front Page Top

#30 Abraham Lincoln ran against McClellan, his fired general in 1864 during our Civil War. During WWII, I think the only major change was that we let women have their own baseball league, even the slutty ones based on Madonna’s character. I understand we weren’t occupied during WWII, other than Kiska and Attu. Not sure why those two islands would have been considered a bigger red line than getting our troops slaughtered in the Philippines which was a protectorate that might as well have been a colony at the time.

Posted by Super Hose 2025-02-15 15:02|| 2025-02-15 15:02|| Front Page Top

#31 Musk Will Face Consequences for Meddling in German Politics, Warns Likely Leader, Conservative Friedrich Merz.

No word yet if Vance and Trump will face consequences. </sarc>

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 15:29|| 2025-02-15 15:29|| Front Page Top

#32 Grom???

Posted by European Conservative 2025-02-15 16:33|| 2025-02-15 16:33|| Front Page Top

#33 ....Conservative Friedrich Merz...

How conservative is he?

Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 16:41|| 2025-02-15 16:41|| Front Page Top

#34 In its 2017 election manifesto, AfD asserted that the presence of Muslims in Germany was a threat to the country: “Islam does not belong in Germany. The AfD sees the spread of Islam and the presence of over 5 million Muslims, whose numbers are constantly growing, as a great danger to our state, our society and our system of values.”[2]

AfD members were exposed as participants in a November 2023 secret meeting of far-right extremists in Potsdam, including Austrian neo-Nazi Martin Sellner, who discussed a mass deportation plan for foreigners and "non-assimilated" Germans, as part of AfD’s strategy should it be elected to govern Germany.
----------
Why would any sane German oppose those positions?

Posted by Crusader 2025-02-15 16:47|| 2025-02-15 16:47|| Front Page Top

#35 @33
IMHO like Mitt Romney.

@34
That was then.

Leading AfD politicians & affiliates now are pro Erdogan, Iran, Qatar/MB, and implicitly also pro Hamas and Hezbollah.

The AfD has been Corbynized during the last 3-4 years.

The only remaining positive aspect of their platform is their opposition to economic self destruction in the name of the climate.

Posted by Elmerert Hupens2660 2025-02-15 17:04|| 2025-02-15 17:04|| Front Page Top

#36 Personally, I think we need to conquer them and make them a managed territory. Place the whole of Western Europe under military Governance, including Great Britain. Then ethnically cleanse the whole continent and British Isles.

Posted by Black Bart Unoluque3651 2025-02-15 19:09|| 2025-02-15 19:09|| Front Page Top

#37 May have to get in line.
Macron recently went on a pandercast with a young muslim who has a history of calling for an islamic France and to use it as a tool to expand islam.

Posted by swksvolFF 2025-02-15 20:49|| 2025-02-15 20:49|| Front Page Top

22:43 crazyhorse
22:36 Seeking Cure For Ignorance
21:29 Frank G
20:52 swksvolFF
20:49 swksvolFF
20:38 ed in texas
20:35 ed in texas
20:24 alanc
19:43 Nguard
19:09 Black Bart Unoluque3651
17:46 Narwal
17:22 Frank G
17:06 DarthVader
17:04 Elmerert Hupens2660
16:47 Crusader
16:41 Crusader
16:33 European Conservative
15:29 Elmerert Hupens2660
15:04 Super Hose
15:02 Super Hose
14:58 Elmerert Hupens2660
14:57 Besoeker
14:53 Regular joe
14:53 Bobby