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2022-09-16 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
The city of a thousand murders: Horrifying civilian death toll uncovered in newly-liberated Izyum as Ukrainians tell of torture, rape and mutilation by Russian troops in chilling echoes of occupied Bucha
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Posted by Skidmark 2022-09-16 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ]  Top

#1 SSU: Russian occupiers imagine themselves as characters of The Lord of the Rings and kill Ukrainians
Posted by Snash Shairt9621 2022-09-16 02:38||   2022-09-16 02:38|| Front Page Top

#2 You expected something different from the RU ?
Posted by Besoeker 2022-09-16 02:48||   2022-09-16 02:48|| Front Page Top

#3 Berlin '45.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-09-16 07:53||   2022-09-16 07:53|| Front Page Top

#4 Russians say the rape data was faked:

Western authors arbitrarily give the number of raped women as "millions of German women". In fact, these data from the book of two German feminists 4) were obtained by arbitrary extrapolation of data collected in one of the Berlin hospitals to the whole city and the whole country. It has been proved that using other initial data and arbitrary author's estimates, one can obtain absolutely any number of raped people, including a greater number of the East German population 5) .

In fact, the statistically inevitable cases of crime among the fighters of the Red Army were not widespread and were condemned by official propaganda and military justice. Precise data on their absolute numbers are not yet available to researchers, but currently known documents indicate a limited number of such incidents. The myth about them was actively spread by German military propaganda at the final stage of the war in order to mobilize the efforts of the population to resist the anti-Hitler coalition. After the war, the propaganda samples of the Goebbels department were actively used by the United States against the USSR, which was reflected in a number of "historical studies" that are subject to reasonable criticism by modern authors
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 07:58||   2022-09-16 07:58|| Front Page Top

#5 ^ Another example of "believe all women," er, depending on the circumstances and political overtones?
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-09-16 08:11||   2022-09-16 08:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Then believe the NKVD.

Beevor says an examination of Soviet archives confirms Gesse's allegations. He describes where he got his source material.

"A certain amount from the archives of the Ministry of Defense, a large amount from the Central State Archive -- and this is very significant because one has reports from the NKVD chiefs of the army groups of the front advancing on Germany and into Germany reporting back to [NKVD chief Lavrentii] Beria, and these reports are then passed to Stalin stating that Germans interrogated by the NKVD say that virtually every woman left behind in East German territory is being raped by Red Army troops. There is no indication, there is no comment on this. There is nothing to say that this is slander or a lie or anything like that. This is presented as fact."
Posted by Snash Shairt9621 2022-09-16 09:04||   2022-09-16 09:04|| Front Page Top

#7 10 Russian torture chambers found in liberated Kharkiv region
Posted by Snash Shairt9621 2022-09-16 09:20||   2022-09-16 09:20|| Front Page Top

#8 Germans interrogated by the NKVD

Anything wrong with this passage?
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 10:01||   2022-09-16 10:01|| Front Page Top

#9 But even where E. Beevor refers to real archival documents, this does not prove anything. The Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does indeed store materials of political departments with reports, which contain the minutes of Red Army, Komsomol and party meetings describing cases of deviant behavior of servicemen. These are chubby folders, the contents of which are solid rubbish.

But they were completed precisely “thematically”, as evidenced by their very names: “Emergency incidents and immoral phenomena” for such and such a period in such and such a military unit. By the way, these names already show that such phenomena were considered by the army leadership not as a behavioral norm, but as an emergency event requiring decisive action.

There are also materials of military tribunals in the archive - investigation cases, sentences, etc., where you can find many negative examples, because it is there that such information is concentrated. But the fact is that the perpetrators of these crimes amounted to no more than 2% of the total number of servicemen. And authors like Mr. Beevor extend their accusations to the entire Soviet Army as a whole. Unfortunately, not only foreign ones [14]. It is noteworthy that Beevor's book was translated into Russian and published in Russia in 2004, just on the eve of the anniversary of the Victory.
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 10:10||   2022-09-16 10:10|| Front Page Top

#10 Russians say the rape data was faked:

They also said the Germans were responsible for Katyn Forest.
Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-09-16 10:10||   2022-09-16 10:10|| Front Page Top

#11 Same reference link as above:

On January 19, 1945, Stalin signed a special order “On Conduct on German Territory,” which read: “Officers and Red Army men! We are going to the country of the enemy. Everyone must maintain self-control, everyone must be brave ... The remaining population in the conquered areas, whether German, Czech, Pole, should not be subjected to violence. The guilty will be punished according to the laws of war. In the conquered territory, sexual intercourse with the female sex is not allowed. Those responsible for violence and rape will be shot.”

The order was communicated to every soldier. In addition to its development, the command and political agencies of the fronts, formations and formations drew up relevant documents.

On March 2, 1945, J. Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda of the Third Reich, wrote in his diary:“... in fact, in the face of Soviet soldiers, we are dealing with steppe scum. This is confirmed by the reports of atrocities that have come to us from the eastern regions. They are truly terrifying. They cannot even be played separately. First of all, mention should be made of the terrible documents that came from Upper Silesia. In some villages and cities, all women from ten to 70 years old were subjected to countless rapes . It seems that this is done by order from above, since one can see an obvious system in the behavior of the Soviet soldiery. Against this we will now launch a broad campaign at home and abroad. On March 13, a new entry appears: “The war in the east will now be guided by only one feeling - the feeling of revenge. Now all compatriots believe that the Bolsheviks are committing atrocities. There is no longer a person who would ignore our warnings” [1]. March 25: "Published reports of Soviet atrocities have aroused anger and a desire for revenge everywhere" [1].
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 10:13||   2022-09-16 10:13|| Front Page Top

#12 If a bunch of Blue Helmets can be kiddie rapers, anyone can.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-09-16 10:15||   2022-09-16 10:15|| Front Page Top

#13 And I get it:

You only believe Russians when it suits your particular bent. It is dishonest and agenda driven.

It should be noted that all the accusations of rape by Russian soldiers in Bucha were shown to be fake, even admitted as so by the Ukrainians.
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 10:16||   2022-09-16 10:16|| Front Page Top

#14 Appreciate the perspective badanov, but the investigations by all sides into what happened in Berlin '45 would seem to paint a diffferent picture. Such is the nature of war, particularly when one agrieved side is on the brink of victory. Has always been thus.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2022-09-16 10:28||   2022-09-16 10:28|| Front Page Top

#15 Two million victims, often gang raped multiple times. That must have been a very busy 2%.
Posted by Snash Shairt9621 2022-09-16 11:10||   2022-09-16 11:10|| Front Page Top

#16 Appreciate the perspective badanov, but the investigations by all sides into what happened in Berlin '45 would seem to paint a diffferent picture. Such is the nature of war, particularly when one agrieved side is on the brink of victory.

Not all sides, but only one side doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, despite all indications otherwise.

Thanks for that. I didn't know things have always been thus.
Posted by badanov 2022-09-16 12:23||   2022-09-16 12:23|| Front Page Top

#17 Estimated Russian losses in Kharkiv offensive.
Estimate is on low side using only photo verified losses.

Posted by Snash Shairt9621 2022-09-16 15:02||   2022-09-16 15:02|| Front Page Top

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