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2022-04-15 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

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Posted by badanov 2022-04-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 Schrodinger's ~~Cat~~ Cruiser? Sunk and floating at the same time?

Posted by magpie 2022-04-15 00:28|| 2022-04-15 00:28|| Front Page Top

#2 MAIO - Ingenious ruse that blew apart Russia's flagship: Sunk by the Ukrainians, warship hit by a pair of 1-ton missiles that sparked spectacular explosion in ammo store - after Putin's crew were distracted by decoy drones

Posted by Besoeker 2022-04-15 00:56|| 2022-04-15 00:56|| Front Page Top

#3 Russia's 'broken arrow': Fears that nuclear missiles sank with Putin's flagship Moskva amid claims that HUNDREDS of the 510 crew have drowned after being 'hit by Ukrainian missile'

Posted by Skidmark 2022-04-15 06:43|| 2022-04-15 06:43|| Front Page Top

#4 If anyone noticed, not one article about the Moskva being hit by antiship missiles was from neither the Russian Ministry of Defense, nor the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, nor the Ukrainian general staff.

All the sources for the missile strike stories have come from unnamed Ukrainian politicians, or from sources outside the Ukrainian military.

In the Ukrainian roundup article originally posted by korrespondent.net, the Moskva is mentioned 13 times, and in none of those mentons are sourced from the Ukrainian military.

Posted by badanov 2022-04-15 07:58|| 2022-04-15 07:58|| Front Page Top

#5 Either way badanov, the Russians have to go with either they can't defend their own flagship from a country that has almost no navy, or they lost their own flagship due to incompetence.

Neither are a good look for projecting military power and strength.

Posted by DarthVader 2022-04-15 08:58|| 2022-04-15 08:58|| Front Page Top

#6 DM's contribution:

Posted by Mercutio 2022-04-15 09:14|| 2022-04-15 09:14|| Front Page Top

#7 they can't defend their own flagship from a country that has almost no navy

BLUF: You do not need a navy to kill a ship

The "almost no navy" meme is quickly becoming popular despite being nonsense. There is an old naval axiom, "A ship's a fool that fights a fort" referring to the advantages that accrue to the land-based side in a battle.

Nowadays, serious ship-killing is done with missiles instead of guns. In addition to being launched from warships, missiles can launched from planes, from land by fixed installations or mobile launchers, or even by hand. There are reports of ships hit by infantry anti-tank missiles. No navy required. "Missiles - they blow stuff up good!"

Posted by SteveS 2022-04-15 09:38|| 2022-04-15 09:38|| Front Page Top

#8 How deep is it sunk? Can they prevent the US Navy from harvesting intelligence from the hulk?

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-15 09:52|| 2022-04-15 09:52|| Front Page Top

#9 A far better headline for this post would have been

Cruiser "Moskva" sank

Posted by Bubba Lover of the Faeries8843 2022-04-15 09:56|| 2022-04-15 09:56|| Front Page Top

#10 How deep is it sunk? Can they prevent the US Navy from harvesting intelligence from the hulk?

The area around there is all continental shelf, so 500 meters max is the depth. No where close to deep enough.

Posted by DarthVader 2022-04-15 10:05|| 2022-04-15 10:05|| Front Page Top

#11 The Ukes are certainly getting a lot of mileage out of those Bayractor drones.

Posted by ed in texas 2022-04-15 10:11|| 2022-04-15 10:11|| Front Page Top

#12 The Daily Mail links do not report a source.

Posted by badanov 2022-04-15 10:38|| 2022-04-15 10:38|| Front Page Top

#13 Drone swarms are so easy to launch. A squad of infantrymen would be very hard pressed to quickly distinguish a swarm of dirt cheap drones bought at a DIY store from drones that could kill all of them. I wonder if this ploy won't become popular in war zones.

Posted by Bubba Lover of the Faeries8843 2022-04-15 10:39|| 2022-04-15 10:39|| Front Page Top

#14 The "almost no navy" meme is quickly becoming popular despite being nonsense. There is an old naval axiom, "A ship's a fool that fights a fort" referring to the advantages that accrue to the land-based side in a battle.

IIRC some backwater Houthis hit a number of *cough* Saudi ships.

Silkworms in the Suez?

Syracuse held off Rome "without almost no Navy", and what was they had, was latched and reefed to prevent port entry.

How many ships did the Allies lose trying to force the Dardanelles in WWI? That's, WW1 for you Tiktokrs.

Rhodes? Constantinople? Baltimore? History is nearly completely on the side of adequate coastal defense vs. Navy.

As the weapons systems have become more portable, more accurate, and more range, coastal operations become dicier and dicier; if and how much is true, what raises my eyebrows would be the defeat of detection and CIWS systems defenses.

Posted by swksvolFF 2022-04-15 10:45|| 2022-04-15 10:45|| Front Page Top

#15 #12 The Daily Mail links do not report a source.

The British tabloids' usual source for tendentious rumors, lies and unconfirmed bullshit about foreign affairs is the British intelligence community (MI6 or MI5).

Posted by Ulang Poodle6981 2022-04-15 10:53|| 2022-04-15 10:53|| Front Page Top

#16 After the Ukrainian defenders knocked out the missile cruiser Moskva, the total number of cruise missiles of the Russian Black Sea Fleet ships in the Black Sea decreased from 72 to 56, BlackSeaNews reports.

Posted by Pliny Ebbineling4240 2022-04-15 10:59|| 2022-04-15 10:59|| Front Page Top

#17 The RFS Kerch, a 9,800 ton Kara class missile cruiser in Sevastopol was damaged by fire in 2014. It never returned to service. It was scrapped in 2020.

The Russians have a problem with fires aboard their vessels and with damage control practices.

Posted by badanov 2022-04-15 11:17|| 2022-04-15 11:17|| Front Page Top

#18 The problem with the "it wuz an accident" scenario is that the first item I saw this week re: the Moskva was Wednesday afternoon, with a report that the Ukranians had severly damaged it with a missile, with all the "we had an ammo fire accident" reports coming afterwards.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2022-04-15 11:36|| 2022-04-15 11:36|| Front Page Top

#19 And that is my point. The source for the cruise missile claims were all Ukrainian private sources, not the Ukrainian high command.

Posted by badanov 2022-04-15 11:43|| 2022-04-15 11:43|| Front Page Top

#20

Posted by Frank G 2022-04-15 13:22|| 2022-04-15 13:22|| Front Page Top

#21 Sunk and floating at the same time?

When you're up you're up
When you're down you're down
And when you're only halfway-up...

Posted by swksvolFF 2022-04-15 13:44|| 2022-04-15 13:44|| Front Page Top

#22 My, my my, fl-oat-ah...

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-15 13:51|| 2022-04-15 13:51|| Front Page Top

#23 Badanov, why did the Ukranian hoaxers know to put out that the Ukranians launched a missile strike coincidentally the morning of the day it turns out later that the mine or the fire-they-set-to-kill-the-spider got out of hand and away from their damage control and sunk the ship? Isn't that kind of a big coincidence?

They haven't been claiming they sunk the Moskva every day for the past three weeks and finally got it right by coincidence.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2022-04-15 17:33|| 2022-04-15 17:33|| Front Page Top

#24 so 500 meters max is the depth.

How much in real feet?

Posted by Skidmark 2022-04-15 22:52|| 2022-04-15 22:52|| Front Page Top

23:53 Omaing Stalag1261
23:08 Omineth Gray1397
23:06 USN , Ret.
22:56 Skidmark
22:52 Skidmark
22:46 Skidmark
22:43 Skidmark
22:42 Besoeker
22:41 Skidmark
22:41 Besoeker
22:40 Skidmark
22:39 Skidmark
22:38 Besoeker
22:38 Skidmark
22:28 Skidmark
22:26 Skidmark
21:25 Procopius2k
20:29 Frank G
20:23 CrazyFool
20:18 swksvolFF
19:57 SteveS
19:36 Frank G
19:35 Woodrow
19:34 Frank G