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2014-08-29 Olde Tyme Religion

You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia

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Posted by trailing wife 2014-08-29 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top
File under: Islamic State

#1 It's an interesting explanation that doesn't hold water. If Wahhabism is at the root of IS, why is it that Muslims all over the world express support for the organization, even those that are nowhere near Wahhabist? In truth, the issue is mass literacy. Muslims can now read Muhammad's edicts for themselves. They don't need Wahhab or any other Muslim ideologist to interpret the Koran for them. Why would the inerrant word of Allah need a middleman? The problem isn't Wahhabism - it's Islam as interpreted word-for-word by an increasingly literate Muslim laity, starting in the mid-20th century. The old go along to get along pablum emanating from imams dictated by Muslim rulers wishing to avoid permanent war until Islam either wins or is exterminated is passe, at least among the (no longer illiterate) Muslim laity. These people crave the religious ecstasy of an all-out jihad, and woe betide any Muslim ruler who gets in their way.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 02:39|| 2014-08-29 02:39|| Front Page Top

#2 What I understand is that we're dealing here with people who can't compete on a level playing field and know it---that why "radicalization" comes from "western" Muslims.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-08-29 03:00|| 2014-08-29 03:00|| Front Page Top

#3 Lack of hermeneutical reading of Koran stifles (as Archie Bunker would say) all reform.

Posted by borgboy 2014-08-29 06:19|| 2014-08-29 06:19|| Front Page Top

#4 Other than the fact it intends to kill you, an angry, charging Syncerus caffer need not be.... "understood." It simply needs to be taken down with a well places shot from a .416 Rigby. A critique can be safely enjoyed from the safety of the veranda over sundowners.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-29 07:03|| 2014-08-29 07:03|| Front Page Top

#5 ZF, thank you for, what is for me, a new way of looking at this disease. That's an interesting way to look at it and explains several of the "inconsistencies" of jihadism.

For example, we are often bemused by the fact that the most educated, engineers, doctors, etc. are leaders of the most vicious and vile groups.

This unintended consequence befuddles the left as they contantly tout education as the solution to all jihadi issues.

Posted by AlanC 2014-08-29 08:24|| 2014-08-29 08:24|| Front Page Top

#6 Here is the Cliff notes view:

You Can't Understand ISIS If You ~~Don't~~ Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia

Posted by Thusoling Lumplump8632 2014-08-29 09:14|| 2014-08-29 09:14|| Front Page Top

#7 ZF, thank you for, what is for me, a new way of looking at this disease. That's an interesting way to look at it and explains several of the "inconsistencies" of jihadism.

The Shah wasn't ousted because he was oppressive - he was turfed because he wasn't religious enough. People assume the Iranian emigres - the cosmopolites who fled the country - are representative of the ones who remained. Wrong. The reason the Ayatollahs are still running the show is because they are opposed only by a small segment of the population. Most non-expat Iranians are troglodytes on the Shiite side of the coin vs Saudi Arabia's Sunni equivalent. The problem isn't the Muslim ruling elites, most of whom just want a quiet life - it's the hoi polloi, who - thanks to their new-found literacy - want jihad, the glory of death in battle against the infidel, followed by a houri-filled paradise.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 10:03|| 2014-08-29 10:03|| Front Page Top

#8 Oil money has found its way into Sunni mosques world wide. Wahhabi-ism most likely went with it.

Posted by rjschwarz 2014-08-29 16:00|| 2014-08-29 16:00|| Front Page Top

#9 rjs, that's a known fact. Saudi Wahhabis are the ones who have financed most of the mosques in the US.

Posted by AlanC 2014-08-29 16:34|| 2014-08-29 16:34|| Front Page Top

#10 Oil money has found its way into Sunni mosques world wide. Wahhabi-ism most likely went with it.

Toothpaste, franchise fast food, laundry detergent, et al money goes into supporting American TV programming overseas - programming that promotes American values (or decadence, depending on your religiosity) for hours every single day at no cost to the US government. Why do people who don't even go to mosque support IS? Or do you really think 100% of France's Muslim population goes to mosque every Friday? The idea that the Saudi royals are at the heart of the Muslim problem is like the idea that Gaddafi was the problem with Libya or that Saddam was the problem with Iraq. The unpalatable truth is that the problem is with Islam and perhaps with Arabs. Short of mass deportation to a remote penal colony, there's not much to be done with them.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 16:37|| 2014-08-29 16:37|| Front Page Top

#11 The jihadi all stars flocking to ISJV is not so dissimilar to the 16th Century Western Mediterranian, where successful pirate/slavers established themselves to the point they were able to make a diplomatic alliance with the Ottomans. In the name of Allen and Plunder, the then all-stars flocked to what we call Libya and westward decimated the European coastline. Their attitudes were such that locals interested in only living out their lives got kicked around to the point they tried to kick out the pirate/slavers; but for the most part the locals were too little too late. Those all-stars' descendants were who Thomas Jefferson waged a war against.

When the pirates sailed into not called Constantinople anymore and showed their loot and slaves, it attracted the type of person interested in that life and its rewards. Those scare-you vidoes are also recruitment tapes.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-08-29 17:22|| 2014-08-29 17:22|| Front Page Top

#12 Oil money has found its way into Sunni mosques world wide. Wahhabi-ism most likely went with it.

The assumption here is that Muslims are children, passive recipients of manipulative propaganda, rather active agents of their own destiny. If propaganda is so effective, why haven't non-Muslims flocked to Islam? How is it that most of Islam's growth comes from a baby boom? Why did Soviet communism not expand significantly beyond ranks of leftist scribblers, in the minds of ordinary people, despite the fact many of the world's literati were on the Soviet payroll, actively pushing its worldview?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 18:02|| 2014-08-29 18:02|| Front Page Top

#13 ZF, the reason so many agree is that the Wahabbists are from Saudi, and the Saudis set up and fund indoctrination centers mosques all over the world -- even in other ostensibly Muslim countries. See Moroccos, who are hang problems with Saudi backed Wahabbi mosques trying to push out their relatively benign (and somewhat westernized) native version of Islam.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-29 20:43|| 2014-08-29 20:43|| Front Page Top

#14 ZF, the reason so many agree is that the Wahabbists are from Saudi, and the Saudis set up and fund indoctrination centers mosques all over the world -- even in other ostensibly Muslim countries. See Moroccos, who are hang problems with Saudi backed Wahabbi mosques trying to push out their relatively benign (and somewhat westernized) native version of Islam.

We get these indoctrination centers stateside. Why aren't vast numbers of non-Muslims converting to Islam? People are flocking to Saudi-sponsored mosques for the same reason fundamentalist Christian denominations are growing in leaps and bounds while Episcopalians are dying out and Catholics are expanding only via mass immigration - they can get Deepak Chopra from Deepak Chopra. What they want is religion cleansed of all buffers. A literate Muslim doesn't need to hear from an imam that jihad (and killing infidels and apostates) is every Muslim's lifelong duty - all he has to do is crack open a Koran. Imams have no authority to interpret the Koran - every word is perfect exactly as composed by Allah himself.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 21:01|| 2014-08-29 21:01|| Front Page Top

#15 Why aren't vast numbers of non-Muslims converting to Islam?

I have not seen any numbers on the converts to Islam. It does seem that Islam attracts the following:

1. Blacks in prison,
2. Young people who are maladjusted,
3. People who have some grudge and hate some other group,
4. People who want a sense of belonging to some group (such as is also achieved by joining a gang like the Crips or Bloods, etc.).
5. People who do not feel some sense of empowerment in society. The supremacy notions of Islam appeals to these people.
6. There are some people who are just downright murderous and Islam provides a vehicle for expression.

Posted by JohnQC 2014-08-29 21:53|| 2014-08-29 21:53|| Front Page Top

#16 I just read over my last post and it is depressing. IMO that many converts to Islam are really fvcked up. Islam seems to wrap many of these weirder aspects of behavior in a cloak of legitimacy.

Posted by JohnQC 2014-08-29 21:56|| 2014-08-29 21:56|| Front Page Top

#17 I just read over my last post and it is depressing. IMO that many converts to Islam are really fvcked up. Islam seems to wrap many of these weirder aspects of behavior in a cloak of legitimacy.

Muhammad was a brigand whose occupation involved killing people and taking their stuff. That his holy book consists of divine justifications for Muslim (and only Muslim) brigandry is no surprise. His new followers aren't maladjusted - they're just people who would, in the not-so-recent past, have been called villains. Now they're just misunderstood individuals discarded by an uncaring society.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2014-08-29 23:26|| 2014-08-29 23:26|| Front Page Top

23:30 USN, Ret.
23:26 Zhang Fei
22:54 JosephMendiola
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