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2014-08-11 Iraq
What went wrong in Iraq?
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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-08-11 02:28|| || Front Page|| [3 views ]  Top

#1 Iraquis.
Posted by Zorba Fleresh4606 2014-08-11 03:04||   2014-08-11 03:04|| Front Page Top

#2  (#1) My nomination for snark of the day
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-08-11 04:00||   2014-08-11 04:00|| Front Page Top

#3 Same thing that has been going wrong elsewhere.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-11 04:10||   2014-08-11 04:10|| Front Page Top

#4 Iraq is not a nation.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2014-08-11 07:16||   2014-08-11 07:16|| Front Page Top

#5 Obama is not a President, or shouldn't be.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2014-08-11 08:54||   2014-08-11 08:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Well, according to the Brits and French who drew the 'lines', it was. Apparently, when the Americans and Russians did the same thing with the Ukraine, they too thought it was a nation. To paraphrase someone else, the graveyards are filled with politicians that drew lines, along with those lines.
Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-11 08:59||   2014-08-11 08:59|| Front Page Top

#7 Well to clarify, it's not a nation with a "demos". Thus a democracy will fail.

In the afghanistan pak region there's lot's of demos's, they're called tribes.

Iraq "works" as a nation when it has a tyrant, but that works as well as catching AIDS to kill cancer.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2014-08-11 09:15||   2014-08-11 09:15|| Front Page Top

#8 BP, reminds me of the Yugoslav "Nation" after Tito.
Posted by 49 Pan 2014-08-11 10:56||   2014-08-11 10:56|| Front Page Top

#9 I don't think of #1 as being snark. I think that sums it up pretty well. We keep meddling in the ME, deposing or attempting to depose various dictators like Saddam, Qadaffy, Mubarak, Assad, etc. But the sad fact is those guys are the best leaders their countries can come up with. And when you come right down to it, the only difference between them and the Soddy king is the Soddy king bribes our politicians. There never was and there never will be an Arab Spring. That was a fairy tale invented by the Champ. Smack 'em when they get out of line but otherwise leave 'em alone. Buy their oil if they want to sell it. If they don't then let them pound sand. Don't take any more bribes from Soddies and don't pay any more jizya to any of the rest of them.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2014-08-11 12:09||   2014-08-11 12:09|| Front Page Top

#10 Paul Bremer and his nonsensical policies and edicts gave the Baath party propaganda some traction.

He locked every American up in the Green Zone, only sent out American Troops in armored convoys and pointed guns at everyone.

I was there in EARLY 2004 and could not get in the green zone.

I remember asking a SFC standing guard with a detail on the July 17th bridge.

"Do you mean a California drivers license, a US Passport, and a Texas accent can't get me in the green zone?"

"Unfortunately sir, you have to have a CPA badge to get in."

When I was there, random Iraqis were hugging and kissing me, I couldn't pay for a meal at a restaurant, I would go to internet cafes and not be charged for the time, I would walk the streets and was handed flowers and candy. Kids would ask for my autograph...they really wanted the Americans to come out and mingle with them.

Of course Bremer wouldn't let American soldiers marry locals...and anyone that knew tribal customs would tell you the second you are part of a tribe, even as a foreigner and by marriage, they will protect you with their lives and give you valuable information.

I blame it on Bremer but whoever was making the rules that turned us from liberators into an occupying army should have been flogged on the spot. I was told innumerable times by soldiers and officers that the policies were wrong and we were squandering good will and feeding right into the Baath party and Al Douri's story that we were only there for the oil and we were not there to free them but to exploit them.

Posted by Bill Clinton 2014-08-11 12:19||   2014-08-11 12:19|| Front Page Top

#11 The Fallujah ambush occurred 31 March 2004. That was "early". Not enough good will to go around.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418  2014-08-11 13:46||   2014-08-11 13:46|| Front Page Top

#12 NYT 7 July 2003:
The first death occurred about 12:35 p.m. on Sunday [6 July 2003] when an American soldier who was accompanying United States officials visiting Baghdad University was fatally shot by an unidentified gunman, witnesses and American officials said.
... At the university, several students who said they had witnessed the shooting, outside a cafeteria near the engineering school, said the gunman had pulled out a pistol and fired a single shot at point-blank range into the soldier's head. An American official said the soldier had apparently just left the cafeteria after buying a drink.

The gunman fled, disappearing into the crowd of students, witnesses said. The soldier, whose name was not released, was evacuated to a military hospital, where he later died, military officials said.


I once talked to a Viet Nam vet whose grandfather, a US "occupier", was assassinated in occupied Germany a few weeks after V-E Day. Some incidents like that then led to the use of 50-100,000 GI "occupiers" going house-to-house & confiscating all firearms in a wide part of Germany, IIRC. I imagine other measures were taken. That was either never possible in Iraq, or never even considered.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418  2014-08-11 13:57||   2014-08-11 13:57|| Front Page Top

#13 Mark Steyn had an inkling of what was going to happen:
A few weeks after the fall of Saddam Hussein, I drove into Fallujah. What a dump -- no disrespect to any Fallujans reading this. I had a late lunch in a seedy cafe full of Sunni men. Not a gal in the joint. And no Westerners except me. As in the movies, everyone stopped talking when I walked through the door...My cuff links were the most stylish in the room, and also the only ones in the room... If you're an infidel and agent of colonialist decadence, you might as well dress the part...The locals watched me -- a few obviously surly and resentful, the rest somewhere between wary and amused. As a parodic courtesy, mein host switched the flickering black-and-white TV from an Arabic station to the BBC, which as usual was full of doom and gloom about the quagmire.

Maybe Fallujah went downhill so fast after 2003 because Steyn didn't leave a big enough tip.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418  2014-08-11 14:15||   2014-08-11 14:15|| Front Page Top

#14 An army is only as good as its noncoms and officers. Typically third world noncoms and officers are worthless.

The Iraqi army was on the way to being better but clearly when the US pulled out the confidence went with them.
Posted by rjschwarz 2014-08-11 14:35||   2014-08-11 14:35|| Front Page Top

#15 obama
Posted by newc 2014-08-11 14:44||   2014-08-11 14:44|| Front Page Top

#16 What's going wrong in the US? us.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418  2014-08-11 15:36||   2014-08-11 15:36|| Front Page Top

#17 Just about every Iraqi I talked to had one MAJOR criticism of the US attack and deposing of Saddam.

The question was "Why did you guys stop in Baghdad? You should have gone into Fallujah and Ramadi and shot all of those Baathist bastards."

Fallujah was where most of the senior NCOs and officers in Saddam's secret service, security forces and elite forces lived. It was a festering sore from the beginning and I think my Iraqi friends had it right.

Al Douri put out a bounty on US soldiers, that kept increasing till it hit over $100k. Only the one soldier was shot...When you could feed a family of four in Baghdad for $30 a week, $100K was a lot of money, very few takers.
Posted by Bill Clinton 2014-08-11 17:32||   2014-08-11 17:32|| Front Page Top

#18 OWG Globalism + a Globalist POTUS.

Unfortunately, I do not see the drive to establish OWG-NWO as ending just because the Bammer formally legally leaves office in Jan 2017 - AS BAD AS GLOBALIST OBAMA'S SSSSHHH ....
CCCCCCC INTENTIONAL? POLICY FAILURES ARE, IT MAY BE WORSE FOR AMERIKA UNDER ANY POTEN GLOBALIST POTUS SUCCESSOR(S).

THE WORSE THE ANARCHIES + CHAOSES, ETC. THE BETTER FOR OWG + GLOBAL FED UNION.

Again, GLOBALISM = CAN BE ASCRIBES AS HOW MUCH OR HOW FAR, ETC. CAN THE SOLE SUPERPOWER USA GIVE UP, FALL BACK, OR OTHERWISE ENGAGE IN WILFUL INTENTIONAL UNILATERAL STRATEGIC RETREAT ACROSS THE WORLD WIDOUT BEING EXISTENTIALLY THREATENED BY GEOPOL WANNABES, INCLUD FELLOW GLOBIE OWG CO-SUPERPOWERS???

D *** NG IT, DON'T FEAR GLOBALIST OBAMA - FEAR MORE HIS GLOBALIST POTUS SUCCESSORS!

Don't force me to send my Ancestors, Celine "Titanic" Dion, + the Battleship USS Oklahoma over there.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2014-08-11 20:08||   2014-08-11 20:08|| Front Page Top

#19 #4 Iraq is not a nation.

In a nutshell! What we call Iraq is a collection of tribes. Your tribe matters more than some abstract nation. Tribal loyalty trumps everything, including being part of the national army as we have seen. It why al-Maliki sucks, because he cares more about his tribe getting over than he cares about running a country.It is also why marrying your cousin, on your father's side in particular, makes a whole lot of sense - never mind the inbreeding.
Posted by SteveS 2014-08-11 22:48||   2014-08-11 22:48|| Front Page Top

22:55 3dc
22:52 SteveS
22:48 SteveS
22:38 JosephMendiola
22:31 JosephMendiola
22:30 JosephMendiola
22:20 JosephMendiola
22:11 JosephMendiola
20:08 JosephMendiola
19:41 Shipman
19:32 Si vis pacem para bellum
19:31 Si vis pacem para bellum
19:18 Si vis pacem para bellum
18:36 Anguper Hupomosing9418
18:18 Procopius2k
18:01 DarthVader
17:58 Besoeker
17:33 Bill Clinton
17:32 Bill Clinton
17:17 Anguper Hupomosing9418
16:51 Ebbang Uluque6305
16:49 Ebbang Uluque6305
16:44 Sgt. Mom
16:32 JohnQC









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