Article

2013-12-30 Southeast Asia

Forget China - Japan and SKor can't even cooperate while peacekeeping in S. Sudan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Pappy 2013-12-30 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 The China-vs-Japan brouhaha may get the most Media or MSM-Net recognition, but truth be told even SOKOR has its own, ideally post-NOKOR Reunification "Manifest Destiny" ambitions.

As first thingys still must come first, both the ROK + DPRK must firstly survive the said China-vs-Japan brouhaha, hence ... ...

* WAFF > [NewsWeek = Asian Security Blog] JAPAN AS A UNIQUE BULWARK TO CHINESE HEGEMONY IN ASIA.

* CHINESE MILITARY FORUM > [Diplomat Crisis]HAS OBAMA CONCLUDED THAT INDIA IS DISPENSABLE?, as opposed to INDISPENSABLE to US interests + strategy???

And iff INDIA is "dispensable",i.e. "expendable",
WHY NOT ANY OF AMER'S OTHER ALLIES IN EAST ASIA + PACIFIC.

Given datums such as ...

JAPAN NEWS > FOREIGN MINISTRY SURVEY: FEWER AMERICANS FAVOR US-JAPAN SECURITY TREATY.

* DEFENCE.PK/FORUMS > US-JAPAN GRAND ALLIANCE SPARKS KOREAN GRAND STRATEGY DEBATE | THE DIPLOMAT.

-----------------

A reminder as per older Net Artics ...

* WAFF > [Foreign Policy] HOW LONG WILL CHINA TOLERATE AMERICA'S ROLE IN ASIA?

* DEFENCE.PK/FORUMS > BEIJING'S GRAND VISION OF A BLUE-WATER CHINESE LAKE.

* SAME > PRESS TV; CHINA'S NUCLEAR BOMBER CAN NUKE US MILITARY BASES [Japan, ROK + majority of "First Island Chain"], SAYS CHINA STATE MEDIA.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2013-12-30 01:15|| 2013-12-30 01:15|| Front Page Top

#2 For the time being, IMO SOKOR = NOKOR = priority is deterring Rising China + preventing de facto Chinese takeover of NOKOR for any reason.

BIGNEWSNETWORK Artics = indic that despite their differences, the latter has not seemingly NOT stopped either Govt-Nation from direct, Bilateral collusion-n-cooperation vee China's ambitions in NE Asia.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2013-12-30 01:20|| 2013-12-30 01:20|| Front Page Top

#3 One of the WWII images I most vividly remember is one of an american interpreter talking with a Korean woman from Japases Army's "Consolation battalions" after being liberrated by American forces.

And given Japan is unrepentant about all it did there is no reason the Koreans forgive.

BTW: When you are being talked by a leftist or an European about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings never fail to mention the Japanese were killing or starving to death about 200,000 people a month in China alone. More than a Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. So shortening the war by a mere month saved more Chinese lives than Japanese lives were lost (Not to mention American and Japanese casualties after a landing). %y guess is that if you ask to a Chinese if anything he will fault America on not being agressive enough on developping nuclear bombs and using them sooner.

Posted by JFM 2013-12-30 09:06|| 2013-12-30 09:06|| Front Page Top

#4 At the end of WW11 Japan had only 49 Chinese prisoners of war. You can imagine what had happened and it did. Not so much with the Japanese I have met but with South Koreans they display a "rising nationalism" here even in this country. Some more so than others. The Chinese seem more agreeable. I only deal with small numbers myself. My two cents.

Posted by Dale 2013-12-30 10:06|| 2013-12-30 10:06|| Front Page Top

#5 JFM: Except, well, the Japanese have repented. The statements that they have not done so seems to be a main selling point of "nationalistic" Chinese propaganda that often suggests doing worse things to Japan.

I don't believe there's a point in continuing to apologize to people who talk about wanting to kill you and enslave your women for what your grandparents did.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2013-12-30 10:17|| 2013-12-30 10:17|| Front Page Top

#6 %y guess is that if you ask to a Chinese if anything he will fault America on not being agressive enough on developping nuclear bombs and using them sooner.

Ask a Chinese who killed more Chinese: the Japanese or the Chinese themselves under Mao Tse Tung? (And, oh by the way, how many Tibetans have the Chinese killed?)

Ask a Brit if any atrocities were ever committed in India, or China (see Opium Wars).

Ask a Frenchman if any atrocities were ever committed in Indochina.

I think there are atrocities enough to go around and there is no point stirring up trouble over things that happened so many years ago. The way it looks to me is the Chinese today are perpetuating the memory of things that supposedly happened to them at the hands of the Japanese as an excuse for their own aggressive designs.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2013-12-30 10:30|| 2013-12-30 10:30|| Front Page Top

#7 Ask a Chinese who killed more Chinese: the Japanese or the Chinese themselves under Mao Tse Tung? (And, oh by the way, how many Tibetans have the Chinese killed?)

The Chinese deaths under Mao are censored there.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2013-12-30 10:38|| 2013-12-30 10:38|| Front Page Top

#8 The Chinese deaths under Mao are censored there. Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain

"What difference does it make."

Posted by Besoeker 2013-12-30 10:51|| 2013-12-30 10:51|| Front Page Top

#9 Thing from Snowy Mountain. Not so much. Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and a afr weaker effort than in Germany about Japan's war crimes) have led to Jap,ese considering their ancestors as pure innocent victims instead of the fascists they were.

Posted by JFM 2013-12-30 11:38|| 2013-12-30 11:38|| Front Page Top

#10 @Abu Uluke

Ask a leftist about how many they nhave killed.

Posted by JFM 2013-12-30 11:40|| 2013-12-30 11:40|| Front Page Top

#11 @all

When mentionning the reactions of your average Chinese I wasn't trying to caompare Mao's and Japan's number of Chinese victims but trying to shhot one of the main themes of antiamerican propaganda. And BTW if Trumann had not used the Bomb now those same people would be using the two or three milion Chinese and other Asians additional deaths as a propganda weapon against America. That if due to stravation Japan had peacefully surrendered in 1946. If there had been an actual invasion and given precedents of massive suicides between civilians (spontaneous olr forced by the military like in Saipan or Guam) the number of Japanese deaths would have been by the tenths of millions.

Posted by JFM 2013-12-30 12:40|| 2013-12-30 12:40|| Front Page Top

#12 Well, what they try to sell to the pacifist western left is different than what they try to sell to the nationalistic Asian left. "Those Americans are protecting the Japanese from what They Have Coming To Them For The War Crime Of Whose Grandchildren They Are."

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2013-12-30 13:24|| 2013-12-30 13:24|| Front Page Top

#13 I just don't see how dredging up shit from WWII and rubbing Japanese noses in it is going to bring peace. More likely it will cause a Japanese backlash which will increase tensions in a part of the world where I for one would like to see less tension.

As for the SKORs, one would think it would be in their interests to befriend Japan not only for mutual defense against increasingly hostile Chinese and North Koreans but for trade and prosperity. The Chinese, Japanese and South Koreans have all done pretty well in the past few decades. Why do they want to start another war?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2013-12-30 13:57|| 2013-12-30 13:57|| Front Page Top

#14 The Chinese, Japanese and South Koreans have all done pretty well in the past few decades. Why do they want to start another war?
Boredom? To take the rubes' minds off bad economies?

Posted by Deacon Blues 2013-12-30 14:14|| 2013-12-30 14:14|| Front Page Top

#15 We may have to make a choice in the near future. I know mine.

Posted by Shipman 2013-12-30 16:54|| 2013-12-30 16:54|| Front Page Top

#16 "The Chinese, Japanese and South Koreans have all done pretty well in the past few decades. Why do they want to start another war?"

Because they can?

Posted by Barbara 2013-12-30 20:04|| 2013-12-30 20:04|| Front Page Top

#17 Various Perts argue that China's real beef wid Abe's Yasukuni Shrine visit is Japan's historical independence from Chinese control or vassalage, + CHINA'S FAILURE TO CHANGE SAME???

D *** NGED -ZILLA LIZARD ANDOR GIANT BUTTERFLY [Mothra] SANK THE MONGOL FLEET(S).

Anyhoo ...

* TOPIX > JAPAN OFFICIALLY ENTERS COLD WAR WID CHINA + [South?] KOREA.

Unfortunately, US-SOVIET style Decades-long "Cold War" is NOT what "post-US", "Mahanist" China wants to see occur right now again, IMO China does NOT want to wait until after US Allies in East Asia go Nukulaar andor US-led GMD-TMD, Orbit-SpaceStrike is firmly or permanently established.

* SAME > [Bloomberg] HOW TO PREVENT A WAR BETWEEN CHINA + JAPAN?, by taking the matter to the UNO = UNICJ.

Because POTUS Bammer's call for UN-led mediation worked out so well for Uncle Muammar [Libya], Mubarak [Egypt], and the anti-Assadian FSA in Syria???

* WAFF > [Want China Times] XI JINPING PREPARING THE PLA FOR WAR: XINHUA COMMENTARY.

* BIGNEWSNETWORK > [Global Times = PDOL] CHINESE LEADERS WILL NOT MEET JAPANESE LEADERS WHO BRAZENLY TRY TO AMEND/CHANGE THE VERDICT OF THE ANTI-FASCIST WAR [WW2].

PRC FM SPox Qin Gang.

* INDIAN DEFENCE FORUM > [Want China Times] CHINA COULD DEFEAT THE US IN EASTERN PACIFIC [EastPac} CONFLICT BY 2020: RUSSIAN ANALYST .

Vassily Kashin, CAST Senior Fellow.

RELATED SAME = [Current] US AIRSEA BATTLE DOCTRINE MAY BE USELESS AGAINST PLA: RUSSIAN ANALYST.

ARTIC > KASHIN = By 2020, CHINA will be able to ...
> project its military forces into WESTPAC.
> defeat US Allies in one or more LOCAL MIL CONFLICTS.
> China's domination = reduced US ability to change the situation via military force.
> China can win a mil conflict agz the US-Allies "politically" before or long before US forces arrive in-theater.

* WORLD MILITARY FORUM > TAIWAN LADY LAWMAKER WARNS THAT TAIWAN MAY BE FIRST TO DETRIMENTALLY SUFFER FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OR AFFECTS OF CHINA-JAPAN [China-vs-US?] MIL CONFLICT IN EAST CHINA SEA OVER DISPUTED DIAOYUTAI [Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands], CALLS FOR DIAOYUTAI TO BE DECLARED AM INTERNATIONAL NEUTRAL ZONE NON-SOVEREIGN TO ANY NATION OR WORLD POWER.

* SAME > CHINA'S PLANS TO DEVELOP A MULTIPLE, "BLUE-WATER" CAPABLE AIRCRAFT CARRIER NAVAL FORCE DRIVEN BY ITS LACK OF OVERSEAS MILITARY BASES FOR THE STRATEGIC PROJECTION OF PLA MILITARY POWER.

versus

* BIGNEWSNETWORK > [Asian News Network] JAPANESE GOVT. WANTS SEA LANES AS PART OF ITS SELF-DEFENSE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2013-12-30 20:32|| 2013-12-30 20:32|| Front Page Top

23:47 Cheager Smiter of the Huns2124
23:44 Cheager Smiter of the Huns2124
23:41 Tyranysaurus Sneth4452
23:20 swksvolFF
21:47 Silentbrick - Schlumberger Squishy Mud Division
21:11 JosephMendiola
21:07 Bright Pebbles
21:02 P2kontheroad
20:32 JosephMendiola
20:31 USN,Ret.
20:29 Bobby
20:19 Bobby
20:04 Barbara
19:56 JosephMendiola
19:54 JosephMendiola
19:49 JosephMendiola
19:46 Ptah
18:51 SteveS
18:46 Silentbrick - Schlumberger Squishy Mud Division
18:28 JosephMendiola
18:28 JohnQC
18:05 swksvolFF
18:01 Redneck JIm
17:56 phil_b