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2012-03-17 Olde Tyme Religion

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Posted by trailing wife 2012-03-17 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11128 views ] Top

#1 The Roman church is caught out in this situation.

There are 23 "Autonomous particular Churches", "of their own law", or self-governing, but in communion with Rome and who recognize the Pope as the leader of the Catholic church.

As a group they are only loosely stitched together, and it is a consensus based juggling act to keep them peaceable when one gets a wild hair. To make it even more challenging, when one adopts a radical position, they couch it in doctrinal terms to put pressure on the others to adopt it.

For example, in this case, doctrinally the Catholics cannot accept that Jews are "the chosen people" or that Israel is "the chosen land", because to do so would be to deny Catholic legitimacy.

They also point out that Israel could very well boot out the Christians after booting out the Muslims, which in my opinion is not that bad an idea from the Israeli point of view, as having others, nations or religions, claiming ownership of part of your country is almost a recipe for contention.

That is, Israel should nationalize all holy sites. After it does so it can be very liberal about terms of use, but it can also be crystal clear that they are Israeli property, so if the tenants make a fuss they can be booted out, and use given to others.

And along with the al-Asqa mosque, this includes the Christian holy sites.

N.B.: The various Christian sects fight each other over the use of these sites, literally down to the minute and square inch, the brawls often turning mildly violent. But all because they have a dangerous "sense of ownership".

Posted by Anonymoose 2012-03-17 10:14|| 2012-03-17 10:14|| Front Page Top

#2 Indeed, in the most influential quarters of Christianity, Jews are still regarded as an apostate group not entitled to a sovereign state of its own.

Then I revel in my humble estate....I had hoped the birth control mandate would have severed the Catholic vote from Obama/Dems but this common hatred only unites them and the 'World Body' at the UN.

Posted by Omoluque Hapsburg8162 2012-03-17 11:28|| 2012-03-17 11:28|| Front Page Top

#3 Indeed, in the most influential quarters of Christianity, Jews are still regarded as an apostate group

Good catch, Omoluque Hapsburg8162! I missed that when I posted the article. For the record, Judaism came first, by over a millennium; it's all of Christianity and Islam who are the apostates. Not that we care, y'all can believe whatever you want, so long as you leave us in peace.

a·pos·tate/əˈpästāt/
Noun:
A person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
Adjective:
Abandoning such a belief or principle.
Synonyms:
noun. renegade - turncoat - pervert - recreant - backslider
adjective. renegade - recreant

Posted by trailing wife 2012-03-17 11:47|| 2012-03-17 11:47|| Front Page Top

#4 Personally, I like to see the Zionists take control of Mecca.

$100 bucks a head for all those hijadis. A nice little earner.

Posted by Phil_B 2012-03-17 12:09|| 2012-03-17 12:09|| Front Page Top

#5 tw, as a Catholic from a long line of Catholics, I was disturbed by the content of the article and I'm afraid I don't have any insight into it. I must not have gotten the memo.

I will tell you, FWIW, that one of my most vivid memories is the first day of attendance at a very Catholic high school, when, within a short time after showing up, the entire entering class was marched into the school auditorium and shown a horrifying movie about the Holocaust, followed by an emphatic lecture by a priest on the significance of what we had just seen.

Posted by Matt 2012-03-17 13:43|| 2012-03-17 13:43|| Front Page Top

#6 OK. Don't base it on the Bible. Base it on the facts on the ground. The Jews are there. They are ready, willing and able to defend it against all comers. 'Nuff said.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-03-17 13:47|| 2012-03-17 13:47|| Front Page Top

#7 The Christians who lived under the Saracens as dimmies eventually developed a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Their antisemitism which they share with their overlords, goes right to the bone. How long they are going to stay like that is problematic.

Posted by tipper 2012-03-17 14:05|| 2012-03-17 14:05|| Front Page Top

#8 I recently got spooked while visiting the blog of a Roman Catholic where one was commenting on his inability to understand the position of the Roman Catholic Church on the use of barrier contraception, and cited an article where Roman Catholic women were roundly criticized by some high ranking prelate because they had gotten too good at using the Rythmn method. The others jumped on him and demanded he just accept the Position of the Church even when it didn't make sense. I actually read some of the arguments on abortion and birth control, and was amazed at the flaccid excuses employed. One guy, in another post, cited a bible passage from Jesus, and was jumped on by another who merely cited some academics, no scriptures given.

Read the second paragraph of the article: There are scripture passages in the New Testament that not only state that the Jews continue to be the Chosen people, but that God has not forsaken them. The branch of Christianity that is the most fanatical about the literality of the New Testament, the Pentecostal/charismatic wing of Protestantism, almost uniformly to a man (err person), has adopted the same position and believes in the continued chosen-ness of the Jews, and hold that "the concept of the Promised land" still holds (even after two thousand years) because the Same God also promised the continued manifestation of phenomena within the Church that they have reproduced in their own churches. Along with Paul they would say, "So what if you can't reproduce the gifts of the spirit? Does the incompetence of man invalidate the faithfulness of God? Let God be true though every man be a liar."

This is merely the Roman Catholic Church asserting their right to override Scriptural practices and concepts: it's that part of the unending catfight between protestants and catholics that'll never be bridged or papered over. No scriptures supporting their view, no argumentation, just "The Vatican Synond in 2010 declared...", presuming to tell Jews and Christians of all faiths what to think.

This is pure sophilism: the speaking of any sh*t, rational or otherwise, that would convince people to do what the speaker wants. The speaker wins when people do what he says, and he loses when people don't do what he says, simple as that.

Just say no, and refuse to act on what they say.

Congratulations, they not only lose, but you made them lose.

Posted by Ptah 2012-03-17 15:16|| 2012-03-17 15:16|| Front Page Top

#9 Oh and one more thing: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all "abrahamic" faiths, have factions having large fractions of their membership holding different ideas, but only Judaism's factions haven't made war against each other. TW, I am absolutely SURE I am not the only one that has noticed this, and I am absoluely sure there is some wonderfully wry and insightful inside joke making the rounds in the synagogues as to why that is so. Could you pleeeeze share with us if there is one?

Posted by Ptah 2012-03-17 15:23|| 2012-03-17 15:23|| Front Page Top

#10 Ptah, I'm not a regular churchgoer, but my impression talking to a lot of still-regular-churchgoer catholics here is that the church is divided on this subject. For instance, I'm fairly sure that the synod TW linked to earlier was speaking out of its ass when maintaining itself as representing the whole church.

But I have no doubt that they're trying to get there.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-03-17 15:28|| 2012-03-17 15:28|| Front Page Top

#11 Catholic here, and I've never heard Jews spoken of disparagingly in the church. Ever. After all, Jesus was a Jew. They are our cultural and moral brethren.

Posted by Frank G 2012-03-17 17:39|| 2012-03-17 17:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Could you pleeeeze share with us if there is one?

No joke that I'm aware of, dear Ptah. It's just that, according to Hillel, God assigned us homework*, and we're busy.

* Asked by a pagan to summarise the Torah while standing on one leg, Hillel responded, Do not do to others what would be hateful if done to you. That is the whole of the Torah. All the rest is commentary. Now go and study.

Posted by trailing wife 2012-03-17 18:01|| 2012-03-17 18:01|| Front Page Top

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