Article

2010-07-22 Africa Subsaharan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by 3dc 2010-07-22 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Versus

WAFF > ISLAMISTS ENDEARING THEMSELVES IN AFRICA.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2010-07-22 00:18|| 2010-07-22 00:18|| Front Page Top

Redacted by moderator. Comments may be redacted for trolling, violation of standards of good manners, or plain stupidity. Please correct the condition that applies and try again. Contents may be viewed in the sinktrap. Further violations may result in banning.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-07-22 01:40|| 2010-07-22 01:40|| Front Page Top

#3 You there, with the trigger happy Sinktrap gun.....may I would encourage you to examine the most recent 300 years of African history, continue to periodically review news traffic and consult with 'Father Time.'

Posted by Besoeker 2010-07-22 10:26|| 2010-07-22 10:26|| Front Page Top

#4 I still like my AFRICOM logo

"Ritterlich im Kriege, wachsam für den Frieden" -
("Courteous in the war, watchful for the peace")

Posted by Anonymoose 2010-07-22 10:29|| 2010-07-22 10:29|| Front Page Top

#5 You there, with the trigger happy Sinktrap gun.

You called, Besoeker?

Had you used "Westerners" or even "Europeans", I wouldn't have blinked. But you've made a bit of a reputation for yourself, and my trigger finger is the result. We're still going over there, after all, and a great many of those going over are neither white nor men. F'r instance, my doctor's nice nurse-receptionist, who financed her education by serving under a blue beret in Somalia.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-07-22 16:31|| 2010-07-22 16:31|| Front Page Top

#6 My point is TW, it is my opinion that we, yes, the multiculturally diverse America which I referenced as "white," need no further foreign military misadventures or exercises in "nation buidling", particularly in a region with a history as dreadfully bleak as that mentioned. I have discerned your knowledge of history over the years, so I'll leave examples of the many failed Europeon colonial adventures and exploitations in the region to you and the readership. Are the ongoing conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen not sufficient for the moment? Quite enough blood and treasure expended already I'd wager; I suspect the majority of the American people might agree with me on that issue as well. I assume your reference to my "reputation" is a walkabout manner of calling me a 'racist.' Please, simply come out and say it, it's a label which appears to be gaining popularity on an almost daily basis in some sectors of our society. Join that august chorus if you must.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-07-22 17:38|| 2010-07-22 17:38|| Front Page Top

#7 Besoeker, I just erased the four long paragraphs that constituted the beginning of my response to your #6. Let me try to be briefer.

1. I don't know if you are a racist, not being able to see in your heart. But you've posted things that sound to the modern American ear as racist in the past, and that simply will not do. I merely sinktrapped your #2; anyone can see and respond to what you wrote. I neither deleted it nor banned you.

2. Yes, our guys are stretched dreadfully thin with their current responsibilities, both the war fronts that you list and the other ongoing situations like Central/South America, the Philippines... and Africa. If the stories I've heard are as representative as I think, they are stretched too thin to bear for long, and yet they keep stepping up despite the personal cost. This terrifies me. Those like you who actually know, no doubt feel more strongly about it.

3. Africa is not a new front, as far as I can tell. We've had people there -- Special Forces and some special Marines, I think -- since at least 2003... I think. I wasn't paying close attention to that part of the world at the time. It's my understanding that our guys have been training local police and armies to handle their local jihadi problems, as well has doing some hunting of their own, both in the Maghreb and Sub-Saharan countries.

4. Do we want to be involved in nation-building, and do we need, functionally, to colonize in order to do so? Certainly not in the European mode, I believe. On the other hand, teaching local communities to defend themselves against jihadi attacks, digging wells, bringing in someone to teach scientific farming techniques, connecting entrepreneurial women with micro-lenders who can help them become financially independent... things that enable the local community to disengage from the everlasting fighting and provide the local youths with job opportunities other than joining the jihadi gangs? It's my understanding that the Marines and SF teams have done that as an adjunct to fighting battles for an awfully long time. It would be harder to stop them than support them in this, I think. But as far as I can see, we cannot do in Africa, or even Yemen, the kind of nation-building we did in Iraq. I agree with you that we have neither the man-power nor the infinite funds to fix the world. All we can do is give them a chance to fix themselves should they choose. I would like the alternative to be spanking them firmly until they get the message, but I am a neocon warmonger.

5. Do Americans want to stop fighting all over the world? I am quite sure at least a plurality do -- they voted Democrat in the 2004 election. Phrase the question correctly, and you'll get at least 90% saying, "Hell, yeah. Let the last of our guys to get two legs and part of his brain blown off be the last." On the other hand, do we want the jihadis to take over the world unopposed? We tried that before 9/11, and we got 9/11. But in order to keep the citizenry on the pro-war side, we have to run the war to win, which means changing the rules of engagement. I have my own ideas of what that should look like, but realize there are very good reasons to keep me far from those meetings.

*sigh* I don't know that this attempt is in the end any shorter than my first would have been. But I've tried to honestly address the questions you raised.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-07-22 20:28|| 2010-07-22 20:28|| Front Page Top

#8 I assume your reference to my "reputation" is a walkabout manner of calling me a 'racist.'

Well, there is that certain caricature of a black African that you posted some time back (maybe 2 years ago?) for one...

Nah - must've been that vaunted Afrikaner senseahumah on run-away.

Posted by Pappy 2010-07-22 22:19|| 2010-07-22 22:19|| Front Page Top

#9 "Senseahumah on run-away" no doubt. Neither congressional candidate LTC(Ret) Allen West or chairman Steele have returned any of my modest donations, but perhaps they don't read the Burg.

Cans of soup or beans can be appropriately labeled. I've found most people however, to be a bit more complex.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-07-22 22:32|| 2010-07-22 22:32|| Front Page Top

#10 OK my two cents, first, there is nothing in that land mass worth one American life. PERIOD! No FID, no COIN, none of it. Now, on to business. AQ is there, and they are growing. We have learned that European FID/COIN does not work with 4th world S holes. So that leaves us with DA. Lots of it. Go in and scorch the training camps and vilages that are harboring AQ. Done. Screw them. We fed the skinnies that were starving to death at the hands of the warlords and when they got their strength back they drug the very men that fed them through the streets, beating them with the body parts of the other men that fed them until they were dead. If we let them all kill each other it will be too soon in my book. Beo, you were being kind. I would scorch that shit hole.

Posted by 49 Pan 2010-07-22 22:47|| 2010-07-22 22:47|| Front Page Top

#11 Go in and scorch the training camps and vilages that are harboring AQ. Done. Screw them.... Beo, you were being kind. I would scorch that shit hole.

Right-o, Colonel. If I didn't know better, Sah, I'd swear you were Belgian. Drinks at the Club after the ARCLIGHTs? I'll have the manager thrash the wallah spinning the fans if he slips up.

Go Army, and all that.

Posted by Pappy 2010-07-22 23:46|| 2010-07-22 23:46|| Front Page Top

#12 Neither congressional candidate LTC(Ret) Allen West or chairman Steele have returned any of my modest donations, but perhaps they don't read the Burg.

I'm surprised, what with them being on the North American continent.

Posted by Pappy 2010-07-22 23:49|| 2010-07-22 23:49|| Front Page Top

23:55 NoMoreBS
23:49 Pappy
23:46 CrazyFool
23:46 Pappy
23:44 badanov
23:29 Barbara Skolaut
23:23 Barbara Skolaut
22:47 49 Pan
22:39 linker
22:36 linker
22:36 chris
22:34 chris
22:32 Besoeker
22:32 lotp
22:29 Pappy
22:24 Richard Aubrey
22:23 swksvolFF
22:23 lotp
22:19 Pappy
22:07 49 Pan
22:06 Beavis
21:59 49 Pan
21:52 swksvolFF
21:50 tu3031