Article

2010-03-29 Science & Technology

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Bobby 2010-03-29 08:33|| || Front Page|| [11128 views ] Top

#1 More whale oil - it's renewable...

Posted by M. Murcek 2010-03-29 09:03|| 2010-03-29 09:03|| Front Page Top

#2 "California will need to import 55,657 gigawatt-hours of new renewable generation to meet the state's 20 percent standard by 2013 and more than 100,000 GWh to meet the 33 percent standard by 2020, according to the ISO report."

As we type at the Rant, fixed it for you. Do you really expect the Granola bunch to allow the exploitation of resources and construction of power plants in their own neighborhoods? /rhet question. And they do need 'THEM' to blame when they have to pay for imported power as prices rise. You know, THEM, the people from out of state.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-03-29 10:05|| 2010-03-29 10:05|| Front Page Top

#3 Move the people to Tehachapi Pass and the Geysers geothermal field. Green power sources and no long transmission lines. Yeah, I know there are no jobs, but that won't matter if we just move the unemployed.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-03-29 10:08|| 2010-03-29 10:08|| Front Page Top

#4 We are seeing an increase in transmission lines here in Kansas, especially in the west where the Eastern power grid meets the Western.

P2K, you are correct when you say Import the power. Shortly before the fall of Enron there was a day that all the power being generated in the United States was being used or spoken for. Power that normally sold for $40/MWH was going for in upwards of $1500 dollars. But CA being the "green state" it is and needing the power due to all it's people; would only buy "clean" hydro power from Canada. Nevermind that our coal plant in Kansas was sending power North to help keep their grid balanced from the giant sucking sound coming from those around Los Angeles.

More transmission lines will help get wind power, when it's available, to the markets that need it. However, that's a risky and expensive venture, based soley on the wind driven generation.

Each of these wind turbines takes steel, concrete, and manpower just as a coal plant does. The wind turbines (3 MW) just installed aound Concordia, KS each have a base that contains 500 cubic yards of concrete.

The new plant we are attempting to get built will be physically located in the Eastern graid but supply power to the Western grid. We'll have a recitifier station that will syphon off about 100-150 MW's for use on the Eastern grid.

To be able to do this, two 750kV transmission lines will be built from Holcomb to Colorado. One will go NW towards Limon and the other basically straight west to Pueblo. These lines will open up avenues for many of the new winds farms to reach their markets.

Now if we could only work out the scheduling of when the wind blows..........

Posted by Everyday a Wildcat(KSU!) 2010-03-29 11:00|| 2010-03-29 11:00|| Front Page Top

#5 Assuming $1B per gig of construction costs for wind power, which is crazy low, you're looking at the potential for $2 trillion to build this thing by 2020. Not to mention any hiccups you run into when you try to scale up to 100,000 gigs.

I suggest a cheaper and equally effective alternative would be to supply every Californian with a full-color photo of some wind turbines turning silently in a green field with fluffy clouds floating by. That's really what they want.

Posted by Matt 2010-03-29 12:23|| 2010-03-29 12:23|| Front Page Top

#6 I assume the 55 and 100 K-GWh numbers are demand side. Which means that they will need EVEN MORE at supply side because of the resistance in the long power lines, no?

Posted by Free Radical 2010-03-29 17:40|| 2010-03-29 17:40|| Front Page Top

#7 No, this electricity will be forbidden by executive order of the POTUS from experiencing any line loss. And will also have to buy health insurance.

And, d'uh, that's $1 trillion in my scenario. But who's counting.

Posted by Matt 2010-03-29 18:31|| 2010-03-29 18:31|| Front Page Top

#8 At least California has managed to come up with a novel piece of Green idiocy. Shutting down coastal power stations because of 'heat pollution' of the oceans.

Posted by phil_b 2010-03-29 20:38|| 2010-03-29 20:38|| Front Page Top

23:59 GirlThursday
23:57 trailing wife
23:53 Verlaine
22:26 abu do you love
22:18 Old Patriot
22:13 DarthVader
22:09 DMFD
22:03 DMFD
21:55 Barbara Skolaut
21:51 tipper
21:45 Redneck Jim
21:37 Asymmetrical Triangulation
21:32 ryuge
21:29 notascrename
21:28 Rambler in Virginia
21:25 KBK
21:21 Redneck Jim
21:17 Dave D.
20:59 Pappy
20:59 Frank G
20:59 gorb
20:48 crosspatch
20:48 Barbara Skolaut
20:47 john frum