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2008-11-26 Home Front Economy

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Posted by tipper 2008-11-26 01:17|| || Front Page|| [11126 views ] Top

#1 Just to remind people that UAW is not the only and probably not the main cause of Detroit's problems. Poor engineering, poor marketing (marketing is not about half nude girls in your advertisements but on knowing who will buy your product (1) and what will make them buy your product) and above all poor management since it is management who sets constrints and deadlines for engineers, managemnt who is able to tell: "Your design sucks, we are not going to sell it and BTW you are fired" and approves or vetoes an advertising campaign.

(1) A well known example is an American beer firm (Budweiser?) in the 5às who issued a series of advertisements with well dressed, obviously rich people drinking its beer. Problem is that the people who drank it were mostly blue collars. End result was that the white collars continued not drinking it since in their minds it was a blue collar thing they wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole while for the blue collars it ceased being "our" beer and became "enemy's beer" so the sales between them took a hit. That is what happens when you don't know your market.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-11-26 05:34|| 2008-11-26 05:34|| Front Page Top

#2 Also, it's a lousy beer.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-11-26 05:36|| 2008-11-26 05:36|| Front Page Top

#3 Also, it's a lousy beer.

It is so lousy that it has a 50 percent market share in the US.

Lousy Budwesier beer!

Posted by badanov 2008-11-26 06:09|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org] 2008-11-26 06:09|| Front Page Top

#4 The American auto industry is broken. It's not just one thing. But the UAW is in contention for #1. Not only as a symptom, but as a cause. I would rank dealers as problem #2. Then we could get to design and the rest of marketing. But no matter how well designed and marketed, products assembled by overpaid workers who don't build in quality and sold by sleazeballs who try to rip you off at service time aren't going to sell well.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-11-26 07:31|| 2008-11-26 07:31|| Front Page Top

#5 Uh, badanov....what percentage of the electorate did Obama win? I believe it was over 50%.

Popularity doesn't mean something is any good....

Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2008-11-26 07:51|| 2008-11-26 07:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Very true Blondie. Many saluted Hitler as well.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-11-26 08:00|| 2008-11-26 08:00|| Front Page Top

#7 But no matter how well designed and marketed, products assembled by overpaid workers who don't build in quality and sold by sleazeballs who try to rip you off at service time aren't going to sell well.

If you check the list you will notice that most of the models listed had serious design flaws and had not been adequately tested before going into production. Quality in the manufacturing process was also an issue but here you must factor lousy work and use of substandard parts or materials and that is a managerial decision.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-11-26 08:03|| 2008-11-26 08:03|| Front Page Top

#8 The Japanese (particularly the automakers) learned quality from us. Post-war W. Edwards Deming went to Japan (after US manufacturers showed no interest) and taught statistical quality control. The US didn't adopt his methods until Japan started kicking Detroit's butt in quality and sales. Japan has a national quality award named after Deming.

Posted by DMFD 2008-11-26 08:50|| 2008-11-26 08:50|| Front Page Top

#9 Things haven't changed have they. [circa 1981]

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-11-26 09:31|| 2008-11-26 09:31|| Front Page Top

#10 Um, Cornsilk, the purpose of a business is to sell product. To do that it has to meet the market's desires. The market has spoken and they WANT Bud.

Personally I think it resembles cold horse piss, but that's just me. It's not like there are only a small number of alternatives out there which is where you Obama analogy breaks down.

McCain v. Obama was the equivalent of Coors v. Bud. There were no Sam Adams, Wachusett, Anchor Steam, etc. in play.

Posted by AlanC 2008-11-26 10:21|| 2008-11-26 10:21|| Front Page Top

#11 Damn, that picture of the Vega makes me wish I had one in my garage right now. Feed it a little E85 with 16 pounds of boost and enjoy life. Seriously, the Vega was what it was. A cheap car with very good mileage capability. It was excellent for those who wanted such a car. They experimented with aluminum blocks with no liners to reduce costs. They utilized high silicon load alloy to prevent cylinder wear. It did. Problem was, they were also using cheap, low carbon rings and cast pistons. Blocks endured..pistons and rings eroded. Replace them and quit squawking. Christ, I'm surprised they forgot the Covair. I had a couple in high school and I could out handle any car in the county. I loved them, except in winter. They wouldn't start due to long intake runners. And, they leaked oil like Harleys. But, what the hey, they were fun for me. I'm now collecting them. Got one with a 600hp small block and one with an aluminum big block both mid-engine mounted. Will out run any Corvette around. I don't think the Big 3 can continue on as they are. What comes next ? Who knows, maybe start-ups like Tesla. But he's way out of price range for commoners. I think we need simple, dependable autos for much less cost. How to do it ???

Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2008-11-26 11:10|| 2008-11-26 11:10|| Front Page Top

#12 Drink Michelob, or die!

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-11-26 11:53|| 2008-11-26 11:53|| Front Page Top

#13 I prefer my home brewed beer.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-11-26 12:05|| 2008-11-26 12:05|| Front Page Top

#14 The article left out #11, which is ResCap Mortgage.

The sad truth is GM has not been an auto company for ~10 years. It has been a mortgage banker and a benefits/pension fund manager. It was a major player in the sub-prime mortgage market.

Making autos became a sideline for them, and it showed on the showroom floor.

Posted by Frozen Al 2008-11-26 12:05|| 2008-11-26 12:05|| Front Page Top

#15 I think we need simple, dependable autos for much less cost. How to do it ???

Economic justice can best be won by free men, through free enterprise.

The market has been killing them for years. Maybe it should finish the job?

Posted by Bobby 2008-11-26 12:17|| 2008-11-26 12:17|| Front Page Top

#16 Anybody out there happen to know what Cadillac's motto is was?

Posted by gorb 2008-11-26 13:35|| 2008-11-26 13:35|| Front Page Top

#17 All those Bud drinkers are stupid/nasty/nutty/ugly/etc. It's silly to argue about tastes.
One counterexample for GM. One of the best cars GM ever produced was the Geo Prizm. It consistently got & still gets rave reviews from users. Reasonably priced, needed few repairs, terrific gas mileage, unusual comfort for its size, durable, etc. etc. etc. Discontinued after just a 5-year production run. Nothing stylish, attractive, or hoo-ha about the model. Yes, it had Japanese tech in it, but it was not sold or warranted by them. I think if GM just started producing them again, they would have a winner. The fact that GM stopped producing it without developing a replacement is another black mark against GM.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2008-11-26 13:46|| 2008-11-26 13:46|| Front Page Top

#18 I remember reading the car mags and the cars that GM and Ford made for Europe were always better than the ones they made for the US. It didn't make a lick of sense to me. Basically there was too much crap here for too long. Detroit got a bad reputation and the market never forgot it. Funny how that happens.

These guys need to go under and be started over. Some (Chrysler and some GM brands) need to stay dead. Both management and the UAW need to be tossed. It is a harsh world out there. This is the only way they are going to get better.

Posted by remoteman 2008-11-26 14:01|| 2008-11-26 14:01|| Front Page Top

#19 The Honda Civic isn't listed?

And what's the matter with y'all? Don't like that fancy Belgium beer?

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-11-26 14:54|| 2008-11-26 14:54|| Front Page Top

#20 had my 1980 X car ( 6 cyl. Phoenix) for 14 years.bought it newand sold it at 200k, and only problen was i blew the tranny pulling a trailer. dealer service did suck how ever.

kept it long enough for #1 son to learn to drive ( and not have to worry about hurting it)

Posted by USN, Ret. 2008-11-26 16:29|| 2008-11-26 16:29|| Front Page Top

#21

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-11-26 17:11|| 2008-11-26 17:11|| Front Page Top

#22 Big enough to pull its own fuel tanker.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-11-26 20:38|| 2008-11-26 20:38|| Front Page Top

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