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2008-10-25 -Lurid Crime Tales-

Today in History: the Engagement Off Samar, 1944

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Posted by Mike 2008-10-25 10:24|| || Front Page|| [11139 views ] Top

#1 Required reading: Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.

Posted by Matt 2008-10-25 11:02|| 2008-10-25 11:02|| Front Page Top

#2 Mike, thanks for posting. Matt, ditto - that book is fantastic. Or I should say, the actual story it relates so well is inspiring and fascinating. (The other recent Pacific war naval history I think is a "must read" is Shattered Sword, which focuses on the Japanese side of the Battle of Midway)

For those in or visiting San Diego (FrankG probably already knows this), there are two monuments to this engagement in the area. At Fort Rosecrans cemetery there are several markers to the ships lost, and across from the USS Midway museum there is a full monument to the battle and the US ships lost there.

The whole story of the batttle - including Halsey's diversion to the north, the famous mishandled message from Nimitz that upset Halsey, the calculations of the Japanese commander, the heroism of the American sailors and pilots - encapsulates some of the key problems and issues of warfare better than most engagements one can think of.

Posted by Verlaine 2008-10-25 11:27|| 2008-10-25 11:27|| Front Page Top

#3 Although I can't find an online reference to it, I was at a parade New Orleans in 2001 that included some of the survivors of Gambier Bay, along with an amazing collection of other WW2 heroes such as this Marine. Quite the event.

Posted by Matt 2008-10-25 11:48|| 2008-10-25 11:48|| Front Page Top

#4 Stlll..... do I go after the carriers or cover.......

JOE! sez

HAMMER DEH CARRIERS!

Posted by .5MT 2008-10-25 12:26|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-10-25 12:26|| Front Page Top

#5 From Matt's link.... it don't get no... more awesome....

While on Guadalcanal he was commissioned a second lieutenant in the field on December 19, 1942. General Alexander Vandegrift presented Paige with the Medal of Honor in a special ceremony in Balcombe, Australia, on May 21, 1943 for his actions. Paige later served in the Korean War, retiring from active duty in 1959.[2]

Posted by .5MT 2008-10-25 12:28|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-10-25 12:28|| Front Page Top

#6 An den this happened:

Posted by .5MT 2008-10-25 12:33|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-10-25 12:33|| Front Page Top

#7 6 of em Dawgs..... big boys!
2 grupe cruisers...

and deh 9 destroyers

Get some!

Posted by .5MT 2008-10-25 12:34|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-10-25 12:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Heh.
World was different then.... that was before the Chineee Navy hit the Blue Water.

Posted by .5MT 2008-10-25 12:51|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-10-25 12:51|| Front Page Top

#9 IIRC, the Japanese didn't have it all their own way even before they cleared San Bernardino Straits. The PTs hit 'em first, then wave after wave of carrier aircraft. Adm. Halsey's mad rush to the north to attack the carriers left the beaches vulnerable, defended only by "jeep" carriers and destroyer escorts. The heroism of those "small boys" cannot ever be disputed, with destroyer escorts fighting battleships and cruisers.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-10-25 13:13|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-10-25 13:13|| Front Page Top

#10 Verlaine - I've seen both the one across the inlet by the Midway and the one at Ft Rosecrans (my Dad's inurned there).

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-10-25 14:32|| 2008-10-25 14:32|| Front Page Top

#11 Last Stand of the Tin Can Soldiers is a must read. I thought maybe, just maybe, it would be made into a movie along with The Greatest Raid (Ghost Soldiers is a great read as well).

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-10-25 14:51|| 2008-10-25 14:51|| Front Page Top

#12 Today Hollyweird would make them out to be knuckle dragging semi-literate neo-Klansmen bent upon keeping the little brown Asian a colonial thrall just recently liberated by their Japanese Asian big brothers fighting the Man's machine of Western dominance. Throw in some gratuitous fictional atrocities and you'll have funding by lunch tomorrow.

The History Channel has already done a better job without the Left Coast neurotic loathing.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-10-25 15:06|| 2008-10-25 15:06|| Front Page Top

#13 Sure did suck to be in the Japanese Navy by 1944!

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-10-25 15:22|| 2008-10-25 15:22|| Front Page Top

#14 The invasion of the Philippines could have been an unmitigated disaster for the US. Halsey took the bait and headed north for the Japanese carrier suicide bait fleet. That action could have had our forces wiped out on the beaches. Halsey's reputation saved him from from possible removal, IMHO. It was a series of multiple f*ck-ups on both sides, plus some good, agressive attacks by our naval forces, and a lot of sacrifices, witness the Tin Can Sailors, that saved our bacon and brought us victory in the battles of the Philippines in 1944.

Think about that Obama, when you will not say the Pledge of Allegiance, or properly present yourself during the playing of the National Anthem. A lot of good men sleep in the deep to give you the freedom to become the Marxist Socialist a$$h--- that you have become. They never had a chance to come home, marry, have families, grow old, and enjoy their grandchildren. Think about them.
/rant

Posted by Alaska Paul 2008-10-25 17:02|| 2008-10-25 17:02|| Front Page Top

#15 The PTs hit 'em first, then wave after wave of carrier aircraft.

The escort carriers didn't have the kind of ordnance who who would have enabled their planes to be effective against heavy ship. So what their planes did was basically bluff the japanese and delay them.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-10-25 17:19|| 2008-10-25 17:19|| Front Page Top

#16 AP, Obama doesn't care about the sacrifices of otehrs. Narcissist characteristic: you matter only in how you can benefit/affect them. He is so wrapped up in himself, he barely knows others exist

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-10-25 17:40|| 2008-10-25 17:40|| Front Page Top

#17 The invasion of the Philippines could have been an unmitigated disaster for the US. Halsey took the bait and headed north for the Japanese carrier suicide bait fleet.

Halsey was abasent at Midway.
In the battle of Midway there were so many events where the US were unbelievebly lucky that I joke about it as a proof of God's existence and that he was acting.

And one of the signs where I tend to see God's fingerprints" was Halsey's illness who forced his replacement by Spruance. Spruance played carefully during the carrier battle and after it instead of pursuing the enemy like Halsey would have done (and possibly run into a night battle against Japanese battleships) he retreated. On t-he other side it is told that the real brains in Midway was Halsey's chief of staff who was at Midway with Spruance but not at samar after an affair with a married woman and the Navy forcing Halsey to part with him. So perhaps Halmsey wouldn't have lost at Midway after all. Anyway I am not sure his chief of staff would have ben able to persuade Halsey of going against his instincts.

One thing is sure: we don't know what would have happenned with Halsey but it is very easy to envision a worse outcome than the historical one and very difficult to envision a bigger victory than sinking four amjor carriers and about as important, killing of over a hundred of IJN's best pilots, the likes like them Japan would be unable to produce again.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-10-25 18:01|| 2008-10-25 18:01|| Front Page Top

#18 Continuing with JFM's comments, Halsey's COS was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Browning who was also Chevy Chase's grandfather.

This was when Halsey sent the famous message: "I've sent McCain".

Posted by Penguin 2008-10-25 18:10|| 2008-10-25 18:10|| Front Page Top

#19 #14 Although, AP, it's ironically possible that a battle like the one off Samar -- Americans fighting bravely against heavy odds -- might be the exact military consequence of an Obama presidency.

Posted by Matt 2008-10-25 19:10|| 2008-10-25 19:10|| Front Page Top

#20 This was when Halsey sent the famous message: "I've sent McCain".

This is such a famous message that Google is ignorant of it (when combined with Halsey). Linky?

Posted by Angie Schultz 2008-10-25 19:18|| 2008-10-25 19:18|| Front Page Top

#21 IIRC, McCain didn't wait for orders, he looked at the whole thing and immediately deduced that something was up when the first messages from Taffy-3 came down.

I don't remember what TF he had, but he brought them in and I think towards the latter stage of the battle, he started launching his aircraft at extreme range to make hits on the IJN force.

Posted by Anon4021 2008-10-25 23:14|| 2008-10-25 23:14|| Front Page Top

#22 Speaking of PT boats, I once met this man while I was at Bethesda (He'd just been recalled to active duty to head the Navy's Board of Inspection and Survey).

Hell of a guy.

Posted by Pappy 2008-10-25 23:20|| 2008-10-25 23:20|| Front Page Top

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