Article

2008-08-18 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

End of empire is always a muddy, bloody, business

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Posted by john frum 2008-08-18 09:54|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Given its natural resources, Russia is bound to prosper.

I think that is QUITE debatable, on several grounds.

Its people will continue to enjoy the previously unimaginable luxury of being paid on time in a worthwhile currency. This will lead to the expansion of the middle class, which is the foundation of social stability. Despite difficulties in recent years, a society run by the middle classes will inevitably become a civil society.

Youd think that China has shown that such inevitablity either does not exist, or at least does not kick in securely till much higher standards of living. Theres also considerable evidence that the link is much weaker in petrostates.

Nor is there any reason why Messrs Putin and Medvedev should impede the growth of a democratic culture. Why should they, when they would have no difficulty in winning free elections?

1. They win so easily in part because of the undemocratic steps they have already taken.
2. They are quite aware that the economy will not be golden for all time, and that times change. They dont want to lose power then.

The passage of time will ease the pain of post-Soviet trauma. Many older Russians resent the loss of the Soviet Union. As they gave the best years of their lives to its service,

A very odd phrasing, to be sure.

this is hardly surprising. But political self-pity among older Russians is a major contributory factor to the fall in life expectancy. This does not affect the rising age groups. The more their elders sink into nostalgia and vodka, the quicker they will take charge.

But Putinesque self assertion may make it harder to break the cycle.

Mr Putin comes from the transitional generation: career rooted in the old order, but young enough to adapt. Although much has been made of his KGB past, this was not necessarily adisadvantage. The KGB had one asset denied to ordinary Russians: information. A KGB operative stationed in the West and tasked with upholding the superiority of the Soviet system must have felt like a member of the Flat-Earth Society on a round-the-world cruise.

Nor should we assume that all KGB men were ideological fanatics. You are a young Russian in the 1970s. Like almost everyone in the world, you assume that the Soviet system will outlast your lifetime. You are not the stuff from which heroes are made (Vladimir Putin does not look heroic). You decide, therefore, that the KGB offers an interesting life with lots of travel plus good pay and rations.

Point missed. Its not that Putin is a believer in Marxism - leninism. Hes not - and yeah, I suspect there were few true believers his age in the KGB. Thats not the point. He DOES seem to be a believer in authoritarianism. He has an outlook that seems to predate 1917.

A few years ago it seemed as if Mr Putin had no regard for old Soviet methods. He appeared to believe that the previous economic system had no merit and that the answer to reform lay in markets. He also seemed ready to think that there might be a link between markets and democracy. Although he may not have understood either markets or democracy, he did seem convinced that Russia had to change.

he clearly thinks markets are jim dandy for agriculture, retail, tech, etc, etc and doesnt want to go back to USSR communism precisely because it would weaken Russia. He wants govt control over natural resources, esp hydrocarbons, cause those are the tools Russia will use to dominate other countries, and because it enables him to finance the state without relying on taxes difficult to collect with a corrupt society and weak bureucracy.

It may not be too late to revive that conviction. We in the West have to persuade Mr Putin that it is possible for him to be a patriot who believes in a strong Russia without coming into conflict either with us or with his immediate neighbours. This creates a dilemma. How can we avoid the danger of a crisis over the Ukraine without giving the Russians the impression that they can do what they like in that country?

This is an urgent task which is not assisted either by reverting to Cold War rhetoric, or by NATO expansion into the former Soviet Union. As soon as peace has been restored in Georgia, the West should launch a major diplomatic offensive with the object of creating a new system of collective security in which disagreements could be resolved. This will only work if it is presented as an overture to Russia and not as a diplomatic offensive to unite Russia's neighbours against her. It would help if we announced that the negotiations would lead to the Treaty of Moscow.

If we reward Putin for invading Georgia, I very much doubt that will moderate his behavior. Unless you think whats he done is a reaction to what weve done, which, I dont believe. Weve tried to integrate Moscow for years, looked the other way at their behavior in Ukraine, Estonia, and even London, their diplomatic blockage on issues from Iran to Zimbabwe.

It would also be foolish to exclude Russia either from the G8

Why exactluy does Russia belong in the G7, an org that does not include China or India?

The G7 was formed as a place for industrialized, market, democracies, which were also tied by other alliances, to coordinate first economic, and then political policies. Russia isnt an equivalent economy, its not a democracy, and its not an ally. It was invited in basically to prop up Yeltsin, which didnt work out all that well. It was questionable if they belonged in BEFORE Georgia. NOw its absurd.

or the World Trade Organisation.

Thats why we only SUSPEND their application, till we see how they behave.

We all want to see a Russia which aspires to belong to those bodies -- not a great power which pursues a nationalist course with the constant threat of conflict.

But Russia is BOTH - they want the goodies of integration, while ALSO threatening conflict where it suits them. We must make it clear they cant have both.

If only our diplomacy could be conducted in secret, without any need to appeal to the West's electorates.

Democracy sure is a pain, isnt it? Source of sympathy for Putin identified.

We need diplomats who are the intellectual heirs of Castlereagh, Kissinger, Metternich, Salisbury and Talleyrand; with the temperaments of Peter Carrington or Douglas Hurd, steeped in experience, wisdom, realism and cynicism.

More cynicism than realism here, I think.

We do not know whether it was wisdom or cynicism which has prevented Gordon Brown from deploying his diplomatic skills. It was an extraordinary absence. An international crisis is usually good for prime ministers. As they uphold the national interest in weighty discussions with foreign leaders, they can put a distance between themselves and the opposition leaders. They can speak and act for the whole country.

I think it was the combination of his own internal weakness, plus the need to defer to France which IS the president of the EU now.

Not Mr Brown: he has been far less interested in Georgia than in Milibadev's attacks on Gordia. There is only one conclusion to be drawn from his unwillingness to involve himself in great events, and it is not a new one. This man is not fit to be Prime Minister.

I dont think you'll like Cameron either.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-18 11:56|| 2008-08-18 11:56|| Front Page Top

#2 Second, the ambivalences about federalism and slavery in the 13 colonies led to a civil war, and have still not been fully resolved.

In a column full of gratuitous cracks and sideswipes, this one is either ignorantly phrased or head-scratchingly idiotic. Perhaps both.

Posted by Whomoger McGurque4130 2008-08-18 15:06|| 2008-08-18 15:06|| Front Page Top

#3 More evidence of why Britain is struggling to be a second rate power. And this guy can't moonwalk worth a damn.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-18 15:38|| 2008-08-18 15:38|| Front Page Top

#4 Seems that last comment belonged on the article by Sir Michael Jackson.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-08-18 19:23|| 2008-08-18 19:23|| Front Page Top

#5 FREEREPUBLIC > Russia is reportedly considering giving NUCLEAR MISSLES to SYRIA, + emplacing in BALTIC REGION [Kaliningrad].

COVERT/SUBTLE EVIDENCIA > RUSSO-GEORGIAN CONFLICT IS NOTSOMUCH "USA VERSUS IRAN", BUT MORE "RUSSIA VERSUS IRAN" [future NUKULAR IRAN/ISLAMISM]???

Think ROMAN EMPIRE VERSUS "BARBARIAN HORDES" [Goths, Huns, etc.] > PRO-ROMAN/NEUTRAL LATTER MOVING INTO ROMAN SPACE + ATTACKING ROME = BYZANTIUM AS DUE TO OVERWHELMING FOREIGN/EXTERNAL MILITARY PRESSURES AGZ THEM FROM THE ASIAN STEPPES.

RUSSIAN HISTORY > Local SLAVS + GERMANIC-NORDIC TRIBES versus MONGOLS + TARTAR, etc. INVASIONS.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-18 21:02|| 2008-08-18 21:02|| Front Page Top

#6 I could still be wrong, but my nose is telling me RUSSIA covertly wants the US-NATO to set up in the CASPIAN-BLACK SEA REGIONS, as a "just-in-case" agz future NUCLEAR ISLAMISM/JIHAD-TERROR + ambitious China.

* CHINA = EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE IFF CHINA CAN MODERNIZE AS QUICKLY + POTENTLY AS JAPAN DID.
CHINA > FAILURE OF REFORMS > either a GIANT NUKE-ARMED "JAPAN"; versus A GIANT NUKE-ARMED STARVING NORTH KOREA [Massive Overpopulation + Enviro Desertifications], versus GIANT NUKE-ARMED "ISLAMIST CHINA" versus WEAK DIVIDED CHINA WID NUKE-ARMED ISLAMIST CHIN ENCLAVES = FORMER CHIN TERRITORIES???

Thusly, RUSSIA NEEDS THE US-NATO/ALLIES TO COVER ITS BACK IN EURASIA???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-18 21:16|| 2008-08-18 21:16|| Front Page Top

#7 Given its natural resources, Russia is bound to prosper.

Like Zimbabwe and Sierra Leone?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-18 21:47|| 2008-08-18 21:47|| Front Page Top

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